20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

[Hervé]

7 things covert psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths do differently

Shahida Arabi, M.A. PsychCentral Blog
Thu, 01 Nov 2018 10:15 UTC

© Shutterstock

The only truly effective method for dealing with a sociopath you have identified is to disallow him or her from your life altogether. Sociopaths live completely outside of the social contract, and therefore to include them in relationships or other social arrangements is perilous.
~ Dr. Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

When many of us think of malignant narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths, the image of the egotistical megalomaniac is called to mind: overly proud, boastful, arrogant, vain, self-centered, even violent, depending on how psychopathic we think they might be. Yet many of the most conniving and dangerous manipulators are not overt in their tactics - and their violence does not leave visible scars.

Predators who fly under the radar are able to so because they disguise their tactics behind false humility, a convincing facade and an arsenal of underhanded tactics meant to keep their victims bewildered, gaslighted and striving to regain the abuser's approval.

Here are seven ways covert malignant narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths differ from their more overt counterparts.

1. They apologize strategically to keep you hooked
It is a common misconception that those who have narcissistic or even sociopathic tendencies never take accountability for their actions. While it's true that more overt narcissists rage at any perceived slight and suffer narcissistic injury, covert manipulators are able to keep their contempt in check if it means sustaining a relationship or furthering an agenda. For example, an abusive relationship partner may still apologize and acknowledge what they did wrong if they find it more convenient than to disagree.

They will not, however, actually change their abusive behavior - their apologies, accompanied by crocodile tears or pity ploys - are given out only to maintain the image of accountability, not to actually follow through with their promises to change or improve. As Dr. Sharie Stines (2017) notes, when a narcissist apologizes to a partner, "He {or she} is not truly sorry; he is managing your relationship and managing his appearance to others. He doesn't care how his behavior has impacted you, and he never will. He just knows that by apologizing he appears to care and he now has a "trump card" or "get out of jail free card" to use if you try to hold him accountable for his behavior."

This is why the abuse cycle can go on for so long - victims struggle with understanding the true intent behind their abuser's covert aggression. As manipulation expert Dr. George Simon (2008) writes:

These individuals are not openly aggressive in their interpersonal style. In fact, they do their best to keep their aggressive intentions and behaviors carefully masked. They can often appear quite charming and amiable, but underneath their civil facade they are just as ruthless as any other aggressive personality...They are very actively aggressive personalities who know how to keep their aggressive agendas carefully cloaked. Dealing with them is like getting whiplash. You don't know how badly you've been taken advantage of until long after the damage is done.

2. They rage covertly, engaging in underhanded sabotage and put-downs
Master manipulators are sophisticated in how they rage. They choose when and where to rage (usually with no witnesses involved) in order to further isolate the victim. They also choose who to abuse. Unlike overt narcissists who rage more indiscriminately, covert malignant narcissists usually pick their most intimate partners and loved ones to drop their mask around behind closed doors (Goulston, 2012). While they still leave a trail of victims, these victims are less likely to be believed simply because covert malignant narcissists know how to work a room and dupe the public into believing in their false mask.

Covert narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths prefer to rage through their actions rather than outright outbursts. If they perceive that you are moving forward without them, surpassing them in any way, or "daring" to be independent of them, they will strive to regain control. While they appear calm, composed, or happy for you, they will attempt to sabotage you behind the scenes and systematically and diabolically interfere with your well-being to get their own needs met. They may pretend to have your best interest at heart, all while sadistically planning to undermine you.

It is common, for example, for these toxic types to ruin a big celebration or deprive their victims of sleep before an important interview by stirring up chaos beforehand, or to rain on someone's parade out of pathological envy. They prefer to condition you over time to associate positive events with their punishment so that you are no longer able to feel as fulfilled or joyful pursuing the activities which make you independent of them.

The conniving manipulator also dishes out covert put-downs, chronic degradation, callous comparisons to others and cruel remarks to keep you walking on eggshells and begging for their validation and approval.This is done in a far subtler manner and the effects are long-lasting due to the level of cognitive dissonance this evokes. The victim is forced to sift through the fog of gaslighting and confusion to even determine that they are being abused at all.

Former FBI agent and expert on dangerous personalities, Joe Navarro, describes how these covert put-downs operate to diminish a victim's sense of self, reality, and self-worth:

The manipulator will make carefully chosen insinuating comments to evoke an uncomfortable emotional response or even several responses at once. He knows your weaknesses and your hot-buttons, and he will enjoy dropping a bomb like this and watching the fallout. If someone says something that has multiple negative meanings and causes negative emotions while leaving you flummoxed and without a meaningful response, you've experienced it.

3. They set up their victims elaborately, rigging the game while dangling the carrot
Malignant narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths see everything as a competition and a game - and they rig the game early on so they appear to be the winners. Dangling the carrot is one of the ways they maintain control and ensure they come out on top. If they can make their victims believe that they are in for a fantasy relationship or business partnership, they can get their own needs met without having to fulfill their part of their bargain.

Everything they "set up" for their victims is an elaborate ruse to get them invested in a relationship or partnership with them before pulling the plug or the rug up from under their feet. They engage in hot-and-cold, push-and-pull behavior frequently in order to maintain control over their targets. They harm in order to "rescue" - to get you addicted to their validation and comfort after incidents of abuse.

That is why narcissists in relationships love-bomb and dote on their victims early on, take their victims out on lavish dates, promise their victims the world, plan dream vacations, only to later ruin these plans, abandon and devalue their victims. Victims become so hooked on crumbs and promises that they over-invest in the narcissist, hoping for the positive return. Instead, what they incur are major losses while the covert narcissist rides off gleefully into the sunset.

To add salt to the wound, it is common for covert sociopaths to taunt their victims by giving everything they promised them to another target they're grooming - simply to sadistically rub it in their faces. First, they dangle the carrot, then they give the carrot to someone else to make you feel like the defective one. This is a form of "triangulation" which heightens their sense of power over the harem of men and women they keep to enable them.

This "dangling of the carrot" can also occur in contexts outside of intimate relationships, like the workplace. Corporate psychopaths "dangle the carrot" of a possible promotion, raise or opportunity to get you to work harder for an outcome that they never plan to deliver on. They may instead reward someone else to make you feel like you were the problem all along. These petty manipulations would never cross the minds of normal, empathetic beings, but they are all part of the elaborate mental chess games malignant narcissists thrive on.

These predatory types are always looking out for their own self-interest at the expense of everyone else's needs or basic rights. They set up their victims for failure, always moving the goal posts so that their victims are left disoriented and unable to fight back. These elaborate set-ups are all just a ploy to get inside your head, plant seeds of self-doubt, and to terrorize and traumatize you.

4. They are convincing pathological liars
Covert predators are able to lie and deceive with alarming ease, some even to the extent of passing lie detector tests. Yet their lies are not as easily spotted as the lies of your more garden-variety manipulator. That's because these types lie with a nugget of truth - enough truth to keep their victims off-balance and doubting their own reality.

As Dr. Staik (2018) writes in her article, "15 Reasons Narcissists and Sociopaths Lie," these lies often serve the purpose of trapping victims:

Lies are used to lure prey, to emotionally manipulate them, to put them on emotional roller coasters, and to get their hopes up only to later snatch them away, again and again. Lies and illusions big and small are how a narcissist's props up their false image of themselves as a supreme dream fulfiller - and traps others into believing their "lies," so much so, that they get others to collude with them, and join in duping and fooling new converts, such as occurs in cults. Predators know what to morph into, what to say, and when. They relish fabricating illusions of promises they never intend to keep.

Predatory narcissists also experience "duping delight" when they are able to pull the wool over the eyes of their victims - some lie for no other reason than the pleasure of being able to con someone (Ekman, 2009). As master gaslighters, they lie with a convincing amount of conviction and feigned emotion. Their lies are often perfectly tailored towards what they know their victims will want to hear and will want to believe - which is why they get away with their falsehoods for such long periods of time.

5. They hide their double lives with more ease and no empathy
Murderers Chris Watts, Philip Markoff (the Craigslist Killer), and Scott Peterson were all revealed to have been living double lives which no one would've ever suspected them of living otherwise. They all appeared to be eerily "normal." Emile Cilliers attempted the murder of his wife twice and was also revealed to have had affairs with other women, even to the extent of planning a new life with one of them. His wife expressed shock that he could go so far as to plan her murder. By all accounts, these predators appeared to have happy relationships and were able to fool society with their charismatic public image.

This is common with wolves in sheep's clothing; they can be pillars of the community, upstanding citizens and doting husbands or wives up until the point where their most violent crimes are exposed.

Yet the lengthy deception involved in these cases will come to no surprise to those who have lived with and have married covert malignant narcissists. The secret lives of covert sociopaths consist of multiple affairs, crimes, and numerous lies built up over time which do not unravel until their most horrific deeds were finally uncovered.

A propensity for double lives is intrinsic to their disorder. Psychopaths are prone to boredom and have a high need for stimulation. The psychopathic brain has been studied to show structural and functional abnormalities in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala, parts of the brain responsible for moral reasoning, empathy, guilt as well as anxiety and fear (Motzkin, et. al 2011).

A lack of moral qualms, an absence of fear and a constant need for thrill is quite a dangerous combination when a psychopath is involved. Extramarital affairs, dangerous activities, risky behaviors are all "food" for a hungry, voracious psychopath who requires larger and larger amounts of danger in order to feel satiated. Their levels of sexual depravity and conscienceless behavior know no bounds - simply because they do not have any boundaries to hold them back.

6. Their facade is very convincing and alluring
The covert psychopath's facade is one of the most convincing tools they use in order to bolster their public image and escape accountability for their actions. The most covert sociopaths are able to engage in a great deal of grandstanding and virtue-signaling to create a persona of a good-natured, humble, caring and generous individual in order to mask their true contempt and malice. This allows them to get away with their crimes more easily in public. They can even infiltrate fields like counseling or religious and spiritual leadership in order to access a greater supply of victims, disguising themselves as competent professionals or "gurus" all while hunting for prey.

Their superficial and glib charm is not only part of their diagnostic criteria, it is the driving force behind what makes them so alluring to potential targets of their schemes.

Their devil-may-care exterior actually works for narcissists, rather than against them, when it comes to initial attraction, ironically even for those seeking long-term mates. Research has indicated that even women with a wealth of experience in the romantic arena and a desire for marriage (including those who have knowledge of narcissistic personalities) still preferred narcissists as romantic partners. According to researchers Haslam and Montrose (2015), this was due to their "ability to acquire resources, and {the fact} that they are entertaining and self-assured. These traits are attractive to females in relationship contexts."

7. They use the pity ploy rather than physical force to cut through the defenses of their victims
The pity ploy is perhaps the most dangerous weapon in the arsenal of a covert sociopath. Dr. Martha Stout, author of The Sociopath Next Door, writes, "The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy." Stout notes that if an abusive, toxic person repeatedly tries to make us feel sorry for them after chronically terrorizing us, it is a sure sign we are dealing with someone sociopathic.

Pity disarms us and makes us vulnerable to exploitation. Preying on our sympathy, our conscientiousness and empathy is a common maneuver for conscienceless, sophisticated and covert manipulators because it enables them to get past our defenses. It appeals to the part of us that wants to help, nurture and "nurse" these individuals back to emotional "health."

That is why covert abusers often bring up traumatic pasts to justify their present violence, use excuses related to life-threatening illnesses, work-related issues or emergencies to divert the focus off of their harmful behavior, and tell sob stories of their "crazy exes" early on in the beginning to manipulate their victims. They use their capacity for cognitive empathy to assess our weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and desires in order to "morph" into the very people we would trust in and believe in - the very people we would want to help (Wai & Tiliopoulos, 2012). Meanwhile, these same malignant types lack the affective empathy and sympathy for their victims - depending on where they fall on the spectrum, they often do not feel anything other than sadistic pleasure at inflicting pain.

Covert manipulators know how to bypass our logic and reasoning by appealing to the most vulnerable parts of us - our empathy and compassion, qualities which they do not possess themselves. This is what ultimately makes them so dangerous - the fact that they can pose as a sheep in wolf's clothing, with no one being any wiser to their intentions. As Stout also eloquently writes, "'I am sure that if the devil existed, he would want us to feel very sorry for him."


References:

American Psychiatric Association (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th Ed). Washington DC: American Psychiatric Association.

Ekman, P. (2009, December). Duping Delight. Retrieved November 01, 2018, from https://www.paulekman.com/deception-...uping-delight/

Goulston, M. (2012, February 9). Rage-Coming Soon From a Narcissist Near You. Retrieved July 24, 2018, from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ssist-near-you

Haslam, C., & Montrose, V. T. (2015). Should have known better: The impact of mating experience and the desire for marriage upon attraction to the narcissistic personality.Personality and Individual Differences,82, 188-192. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2015.03.032

Motzkin, J. C., Newman, J. P., Kiehl, K. A., & Koenigs, M. (2011). Reduced Prefrontal Connectivity in Psychopathy. Journal of Neuroscience, 31(48), 17348-17357. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.4215-11.2011

Navarro, J., & Poynter, T. S. (2017). Dangerous personalities: An FBI profiler shows how to identify and protect yourself from harmful people. Emmaus, PA: Rodale.

Simon, G. (2008, November). Beware the Covert-Aggressive Personality. Retrieved November 01, 2018, from https://counsellingresource.com/feat...e-personality/

Staik, A. (2018). 15 Reasons Narcissists (and Sociopaths) Lie. Psych Central. Retrieved on November 1, 2018, from https://blogs.psychcentral.com/relat...ociopaths-lie/

Stines, S. (2017). When a Narcissist Makes an Apology. Psych Central. Retrieved on October 31, 2018, from https://pro.psychcentral.com/recover...es-an-apology/

Stout, M. (2004). The Sociopath Next Door: How to recognize and defeat the ruthless in everyday life. New York: Broadway Books.

Wai, M., & Tiliopoulos, N. (2012). The affective and cognitive empathic nature of the dark triad of personality. Personality and Individual Differences, 52(7), 794-799. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2012.01.008

About The Author
Shahida Arabi is the best-selling author of Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare: How to Devalue and Discard the Narcissist While Supplying Yourself, She is the founder of the popular blog for abuse survivors, Self-Care Haven. Her work has been shared and endorsed by numerous clinicians, mental health advocates, mental health professionals and bestselling authors.

Related:
Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Hervé (here)
7 things covert psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths do differently

Excellent, Hervé.
Thanks.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Posted by Hervé (here)
7 things covert psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths do differently

1. They apologize strategically to keep you hooked

2. They rage covertly, engaging in underhanded sabotage and put-downs

3. They set up their victims elaborately, rigging the game while dangling the carrot

4. They are convincing pathological liars

5. They hide their double lives with more ease and no empathy

6. Their facade is very convincing and alluring

7. They use the pity ploy rather than physical force to cut through the defenses of their victims

I would ADD,

8. They will always win the argument

You want to play a game you will never win? Start an argument with a narcissist

You'll find out that they argue in what is sometimes referred to as bad faith.
It means that they don’t even care about, or try to understand, the other person. Or even worse, they are dedicated to deliberately misunderstanding and mischaracterizing others, often to the point of absurdity.

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/



Arguing with a Narcissist... A deeper look

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MUAcve4vIs

[Deux Corbeaux]

Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)

8. They will always win the argument

You want to play a game you will never win? Start an argument with a narcissist

You'll find out that they argue in what is sometimes referred to as bad faith.
It means that they don’t even care about, or try to understand, the other person. Or even worse, they are dedicated to deliberately misunderstanding and mischaracterizing others, often to the point of absurdity.

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/

On a forum one can sometimes meet with the toxicity of an narcissist.

In the article above there were mentioned some of the techniques a narcissist uses in conversations and arguments, like

1. Arguing in bad faith

2. Fallacies, nonsense, word salad

3. Provoking, bullying, intimidating

4. Lying, denying, changing definitions

5. Deflecting, attacking, projecting

6. Involving others and acting out revenge fantasies

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/

I would like to add to this:

7 Aggressive jabs disguised as jokes.

Covert narcissists enjoy making malicious remarks at your expense. These are usually dressed up as “just jokes”.
Hence they can get away with saying appalling things while still maintaining an innocent, cool demeanor.

8. Condescending sarcasm and patronizing tone.

Belittling and degrading a person is a narcissist's forte and their tone of voice (or in writing, capitals and fat) is only one tool in their toolbox.
Sarcasm can be a fun mode of communication when both parties are engaged, but narcissists use it chronically as a way to manipulate you and degrade you.

If you in any way react to it, you must be “too sensitive.”

[Flash]

Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)

Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)

8. They will always win the argument

You want to play a game you will never win? Start an argument with a narcissist

You'll find out that they argue in what is sometimes referred to as bad faith.
It means that they don’t even care about, or try to understand, the other person. Or even worse, they are dedicated to deliberately misunderstanding and mischaracterizing others, often to the point of absurdity.

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/

On a forum one can sometimes meet with the toxicity of an narcissist.

In the article above there were mentioned some of the techniques a narcissist uses in conversations and arguments, like

1. Arguing in bad faith

2. Fallacies, nonsense, word salad

3. Provoking, bullying, intimidating

4. Lying, denying, changing definitions

5. Deflecting, attacking, projecting

6. Involving others and acting out revenge fantasies

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/

I would like to add to this:

7 Aggressive jabs disguised as jokes.

Covert narcissists enjoy making malicious remarks at your expense. These are usually dressed up as “just jokes”.
Hence they can get away with saying appalling things while still maintaining an innocent, cool demeanor.

8. Condescending sarcasm and patronizing tone.

Belittling and degrading a person is a narcissist's forte and their tone of voice (or in writing, capitals and fat) is only one tool in their toolbox.
Sarcasm can be a fun mode of communication when both parties are engaged, but narcissists use it chronically as a way to manipulate you and degrade you.

If you in any way react to it, you must be “too sensitive.”

Deux Corbeaux, you completely changed the content of the numbering!!! Shouldn't your content be added up to the one from the previous content?

Did you confuse us in order to have some gain??? :ROLF:

That is it? Now I am too sensitive, you see me as tooo..... Previous number 5 could be reposted here lolllll

[Deux Corbeaux]

Posted by Flash (here)
Deux Corbeaux, you completely changed the content of the numbering!!! Shouldn't your content be added up to the one from the previous content?

Did you confuse us in order to have some gain??? :ROLF:

That is it? Now I am too sensitive, you see me as tooo..... Previous number 5 could be reposted here lolllll

I don't understand what you're trying to tell me.

Read the article I posted above.
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/psych...ssist-arguing/

"6 Toxic Arguing Techniques Used by Narcissists and Manipulators"

1. Arguing in bad faith
When in disagreement, a common person tries to understand the other party, listen to them, be honest, and make sure they understand where others are coming from. Sure, sometimes people can slip and become too upset or too anxious. But generally that’s the unwritten guideline.

Narcissists on the other hand argue in what is sometimes referred to as bad faith. It means that they don’t even care about, or try to understand, the other person. Or even worse, they are dedicated to deliberately misunderstanding and mischaracterizing others, often to the point of absurdity.

They are willingly dishonest, deceptive, and morally corrupt. Often while at the same time quick to accuse others of being dishonest, deceptive, and morally bad (more on that in #5).

2. Fallacies, nonsense, word salad
Narcissists are often ill-equipped to have mature discussions or resolve conflicts yet in their mind they are experts at it. As a result, they often use some terms, arguments, or techniques that they’ve heard about yet don’t really understand, all while thinking that they are being rational, reasonable, or correct. Sometimes to the degree that they become extremely upset or even aggressive that you are being irrational, unreasonable, uneducated, and unwilling or unable to have a mature conversation.

Meanwhile in reality, what they’re saying is simply an incoherent rant or an amalgamation of logical and argumentation fallacies, misrepresentation of you, factual errors, emotional language, or pure nonsense (as in something that literally makes no sense). In more extreme cases it is called word salad, as in a mix of words that are just thrown together with no coherence or structure.

3. Provoking, bullying, intimidating
Since a narcissist’s goal is to dominate and be perceived as right at all costs, they often use aggression. This category involves the more overtly aggressive tactics commonly used by narcissists.

Such methods include provoking, bullying, and intimidating, where the narcissist picks on you, calls you names, yells, acts overly emotional, deliberately tries to hurt you, blatantly lies, threatens, or even physically aggresses against you.

Not only that, then they spin it around by presenting it as if by reacting to it or by ignoring them you are the one who’s unreasonable, too emotional, and aggressive against them.

4. Lying, denying, changing definitions
Here, in order to “win,” the narcissist uses more covert tactics.

Sometimes they lie about what happened, what you or they did and didn’t do, or even about what’s real and factually true. Often to the degree of pure denial and delusion. An attempt to confuse the other person and make them doubt their experiences or reality by lying about it is called gaslighting.

Another method that falls in this category is redefining to suit their narrative. For that purpose, they are keen on using euphemistic language or redefining commonly used words to fit their narrative when it clearly doesn’t. Again, the goal is to justify that what they are doing is good and what they are saying is right, even when it clearly isn’t.

Sometimes it means reframing or minimizing their toxic behavior to confuse you. For instance, “I didn’t yell at you, I was just passionate.” Or, “This is not abusive or manipulative, I’m just being assertive and honest.”

5. Deflecting, attacking, projecting
A painfully common tactic used by narcissists is deflect and attack.

Here, the goal is to shift attention from what the narcissist is saying and doing to what you are saying and doing, where they never have to take responsibility for their toxic behavior or address anything you’re saying.

If you bring something up that you don’t like or find to be untrue and problematic, instead of addressing it or taking responsibility for it, they will quickly deflect and go into attack mode. This means they will use their toxic tactics to quickly shift attention from themselves and bring up something that you may or may not have said or done. Often to the degree where they try to always keep you on the defense by accusing you of all sorts of stuff, some of which includes the things they are actually doing themselves (narcissistic projection).

And if you make a mistake of actually trying to address it, you will get distracted from the initial issue and soon become overwhelmed by all the stuff that now you are expected to address and clarify. And do so to a person who doesn’t care about understanding you and is dedicated to mischaracterizing you in order to dominate and “win an argument.”

6. Involving others and acting out revenge fantasies
Narcissists have extremely fragile egos and a shaky sense of self-esteem. If you actually stand up for yourself and don’t play their games, they perceive it as humiliation, as you being unfair, even abusive to them. In their eyes, you are being unreasonable because you don’t acknowledge that they are superior, right, and all around wonderful people. They find it terribly offensive, and feel shame, injustice, and rage (narcissistic injury).

To regulate their overwhelming emotions, they often try to receive false validation. This means looking for people who would side with them and tell them that you are wrong and evil and they are right and good. It involves lying, smearing, slandering, triangulating, gossiping, stalking, and other forms of social aggression and manipulation.

We explored this more in the previous article titled How Narcissists Play the Victim and Twist the Story.

Summary and final words
In a social interaction, discussion, or argument, regular, well-meaning people treat others with curiosity, empathy, and good faith. A narcissist, on the other hand, sees interaction as a win-lose situation. To “win,” they try to dominate, bully, deceive, demean, humiliate, and hurt others.

For that, they use certain common and predictable tactics that include but are not limited to arguing in bad faith, lying, denying, deflecting and attacking, gaslighting, and intimidating. If and when they feel they have lost or were wronged, they will try to intimidate you further and manipulate others in order to hurt you personally and socially. Sometimes while accusing you of it at the same time.

Engaging with a person who uses these tactics is fruitless, frustrating, boring, and predictable. Yet someone who is not quite familiar with it may think, “But if only I explained myself better…” Or, “But if only I presented my argument better…” Or, “But if only they could understand where I’m coming from…” But if only….

Yet they’re not interested in, and often not even capable of, that. They don’t care about sound arguments, honesty, empathy, curiosity, or win-win resolutions. They might claim that they are all about that, but if you look at how they act it’s evident that they are not.

So after you noticed that you’re dealing with someone who is consistently participating in something like this and is not really interested in conflict resolution or finding truth, you can safely decide not to engage with them and save yourself a headache.


I added 2 other techniques. (Nr 7 and 8)

7. Aggressive jabs disguised as jokes.

Covert narcissists enjoy making malicious remarks at your expense. These are usually dressed up as “just jokes”.
Hence they can get away with saying appalling things while still maintaining an innocent, cool demeanor.

8. Condescending sarcasm and patronizing tone.

Belittling and degrading a person is a narcissist's forte and their tone of voice (or in writing, capitals and fat) is only one tool in their toolbox.
Sarcasm can be a fun mode of communication when both parties are engaged, but narcissists use it chronically as a way to manipulate you and degrade you.

[Flash]

It is dry humour Deux Corbeaux

I am trying to react as a narcissist, unsuccessfully it seems lol

Thank for your info, it is definitely a complement to the previous information, without kidding this time.

[Deux Corbeaux]

~~~~~~~~~~ lol ~~~~~~~~~~

[onawah]

I'm glad other members are paying attention to this subject.
I am having to deal with a particular narcissist regularly and am wondering if it would be better to just avoid the situation altogether...the trouble is, narcissists keep popping up in my reality.
No matter how much I would like to eliminate their presence altogether, it seems as if it may be my fate to have to learn to deal with them, however unpleasant.
I hope that's not really the case!

[samildamach]

I believe it's not you that's needs to learn to deal with them,its more finding and dealing with the lesson there here to teach you.
Mine took six years to understand,and enough experience to write a book

[onawah]

At this stage in my life, I'm not really sure I want to know, but short of becoming a complete hermit, it may be I will have to knuckle under.

[Deux Corbeaux]

Are you in for a hard talk? Isaiah is giving it to you.

Beware, he’s not an actual empath ....

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjLHD9R0jY

Only 6.2% actually got officially diagnosed. How many didn’t?

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/spec...ality-disorder

[Flash]

Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
Are you in for a hard talk? Isaiah is giving it to you.

Beware, he’s not an actual empath ....

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjLHD9R0jY

Only 6.2% actually got officially diagnosed. How many didn’t?

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/spec...ality-disorder

Why do I almost always dislike those talking about narcissists or about the recipients of narcissisim? The only ones I liked up to now are Vaknin, because he does not hide his own narcissism, even if he overdoes it at times, and Dr Ramani, who is plainly a true psychology specialist.

For Dr Ramani, noticeably narcissistic people are her guest: 10 to 15%. I agree with her. I think that 6,2% from the research is due to many people not knowing they are dealing with this narcissist in their environment, until they are fooled by him. As an example, our dear Rebecca here on Avalon, who has a malignant narcissist (in my views and some others avalonians views) in her life and does not realize it, even if we all tell her.

this guy is admonishing us as if we were children. Although his message could have been positive, his admonishing is truly annoying. He tells us what to do, but give no cues on how to do it. Not helpful at all.

And look at his non verbal language: placing both hands each fingers on the opposite hand fingers means "authority", "someones who knows or someone who thinks he knows". Not much way for exchanges in those situations.

Definitely not an empath .... nor a sympatetic one.

Dr Ramani

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uJs0iGQN0M

[Flash]

This one is not too bad either

interesting: narcissistic personality disorder vs narcissistic traits: the former shows the triple E:

Exploitation

Entitlement

Empathy impairment

and why narcissists are narcissists : a combination of genetic and environment

narcissists are insecure (high self esteem is not true), even if they say they are great at everything, but once hook up to a lie detector, these are lies

The particular form of insecurity they have is called "insecure attachment"

With secure attachment, you feel that you can turn to someone and they will be there for you. With insecure attachment, love is devalued, and narcissists devalue love. Narcissists are addicted to feeling special, in order to avoid being vulnerable. They do not like to depend on people.

Gaslighting: partner telling you you are a crazy one, stupid, etc. Ex: applying for graduate school, while the boyfriend does not know about his future, will not tell her he feels scare about his future, he will instill doubt in her such as "are you sure you apply to the right school", going up to make you feel that you are crazy, mentally ill, etc.

People dealing with extreme narcissism often have PTSD.

All those who have heard something like this have dealt with emotional abuse.

Instead of acknowledging they disappointed you, they will change the story in order to avoid feeling vulnerable. Another is putting a person on pedestal, then devaluation her, in cycles. They will dodge, avoid vulnerability, want self control.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmvhDRqCys

3 stop signs to quit a relationship with a narcissist:

1. when a person does ongoing, physical or emotional abuse and won't acknowledge it, and won't change it: get support and break the isolation and leave, you are in a dangerous situation, call 1-800 abuse hot line, look got local support, there is no possibility to remain if there is no safety - get professional help to understand why you are stucked in the relationship

2. Signs of denial: won't go to therapy, won't admit there is a problem, it will not get better. You cannot change what you do not admit. People showing denial throughout young life they grow up to be extreme narcissists.

3. Psychopathy: pattern of remorseless lies and deceit. Lying without flinching to your face, over and over, called malignant narcissism, which is the combination of psychopathy and heavy narcissism. No hope for change.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FA14x5_7Ec

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FA14x5_7Ec

[Deux Corbeaux]

Posted by Hervé (here)

7 things covert psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths do differently

The only truly effective method for dealing with a sociopath you have identified is to disallow him or her from your life altogether. Sociopaths live completely outside of the social contract, and therefore to include them in relationships or other social arrangements is perilous.

This song was posted on the Teresa Yanaros Thread and is relevant to this thread as well.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1258513

thank you ichingcarpenter

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdyto5rf0HU

Don't think sorry's easily said
Don't try turning tables instead
You've taken lots of chances before
But I ain't gonna give any more
Don't ask me
That's how it goes
'Cause part of me knows what you're thinking...
Don't say words you're gonna regret
Don't let the fire rush to your head
I've heard the accusation before
And I ain't gonna take any more
Believe me
The sun in your eyes
Made some of the lies worth believing

Don't leave false illusions behind
Don't cry 'cause I ain't changing my mind
So find another fool like before
'Cause I ain't gonna live anymore believing
Some of the lies while all of the signs are deceiving


I am the eye in the sky
Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules
Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind
And I don't need to see any more
To know that I can read your mind, I can read your mind, I can read your mind, I can read your mind

[onawah]

Narcissist's False Self vs. True Self: Soul-snatching
This is one of Sam Vaknin's talks from 2010, but I found it especially descriptive:
Sam Vaknin
Published on Jul 28, 2010

"The False Self is a decoy, it "attracts the fire". It is a proxy for the True Self. It is tough as nails and can absorb any amount of pain, hurt and negative emotions. By inventing it, the child develops immunity to the indifference, manipulation, sadism, smothering, or exploitation -- in short: to the abuse -- inflicted on him by his parents (or by other Primary Objects in his life). It is a cloak, a Harry Potter-like contraption, protecting the narcissist and rendering him invisible and omnipotent at the same time."

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFahESPWgbU

[Keyholder]

"The trouble is, narcissists keep popping up in my reality." Onawah wrote that in a post above.
It is the same in "my reality".

It started in 1975 and hasn't stopped since then. There have been periods when it was "very heavy", some other times it was a bit "quieter".
In the seventies pathological narcissism, malignant narcissism and more terms like that were not yet well known. Sure, those people were around.
But it has been my personal experience that 40 years ago, maybe 2% of the population were PN's, now it can be around 10%. It really is an epidemic,
like Jean Twenge's book describes. "The narcissism epidemic" is a good scientific reference work that studies the phenomenon in depth.

Between 1975 and 2002 I had not really a clear idea what this was all about, though I encountered more and more PN's, in every walk of life.
At the university and later in education, in relationships, at work (in at least 5 different careers...), in the "alternative" world, in sports, in politics,
within my (small) family, in social circles, in philosophical/religious groups, ...
Everywhere, so it seems. I am convinced that I - for a particular reason - have encountered them everywhere and anytime.

Fate? Destiny? Well, I have come to understand that it was a personal choice to experience all this (sounds maybe strange), but I did get a confirmation of this in 2007.
That made it easier for me to accept what was going on. I also know that in another (previous) life, I was somehow a part of the victims of "Nacht und Nebel", a Nazi effort to
eradicate political adversaries of the Nazi regime. I was striving for spiritual freedom, then too. Got killed in it as well.

So, it is a kind of "fil rouge", throughout this lifetime as well as some others. I have come to see and accept it as such.
For over 20 years now I have done what I could to help those that were victims of PN, in whatever way.
I have met lots of people that suffered an entire life of something they could not understand and did not even know.
Most of them were HSP's, empaths, intuitives and other people that only wanted to help others.
I found out that very often PN runs 'in the family', either mother's side or father's side.
Sometimes I could trace back the PN four generations. And some men/women have as life purpose to "break the circle of abuse".
Very few have been able to do so... most victims - even after trying to get out of the morass of PN - too often become perpetrators themselves.
And so this "mind virus, wetiko, malignant gene... spreads further and further; today it even is "glorified" it seems.
Hard to make a career without being "infected" by it. Well, that is what I have seen happening around me anyway.

It almost looks like I have become a kind of Dian Fossey. The ethologist that studied mountain gorilla's in Ruanda.
In order to know and understand their behavior, she went "to live among them". I can relate to that, very well.

It seems a very strange "life purpose". But with what I have experienced and learned, the conclusion is that I am
today an "experiential specialist" of PN. Acceptance of what we do is key. Maybe Onawah, someday you will get a clear
sign/explanation of the "why" of this being an PN-magnet.

It is - maybe - also possible to say "ENOUGH", IF you consider it's time to end the personal experiences in that field.
My approach is different; but it is amazing to see how this "spiritual Ebola virus" has proliferated the passed 40 years.

The age of technology is partly (mainly even) the cause of this. FACEbook, MYspace, I-mac, SELFies, I-"anything"...
I have taught in high schools and I have seen the damage done by it. Can it be stopped? I wonder... look at 5G coming up.
There are plenty of threads on PA discussing the PN-effects of social media, social controls, mind manipulation...

I continue what I am doing, I do need to take a "break" now and then, and nature is the best place to go then.
The sea and lakes, the mountains... not simple to get there from "densely populated Belgium", but I do what I can.

It's a good thread, a lot of Avalonians are dealing with the many aspects of malignant narcissism.
We can learn a lot from each other.

[onawah]

Many thanks for your thoughtful post, Keyholder. It may take me awhile, but I will definitely respond.

Posted by Keyholder (here)

It's a good thread, a lot of Avalonians are dealing with the many aspects of malignant narcissism.
We can learn a lot from each other.

[raregem]

Posted by onawah (here)
At this stage in my life, I'm not really sure I want to know, but short of becoming a complete hermit, it may be I will have to knuckle under.

Oh please, Onawah do not knuckle under. I completely appreciate your writing this. I, too keep dealing with the narco. It has been one week since I left a 3-year narco situation. It built slowly. He was a "friend" only with severe health issues. So he was able to use pity until I said no more. So many attacks at me. It made no sense at all. He left me hurting in many ways. I reflect on how this happened and I think my lesson (so far) is to KNOW my boundary and stick to it when it gets crossed. That is- no more contact or trust for them. I have attracted too many narcos starting with family. And, on to life's lessons and learning to soar above this. I try not to feel the excessive anger and it is much better. I am working on understanding true forgiveness to self and the narco- it is a progression right now.
It has been difficult to see how I was responsible for being abused- coming and going when I thought I was helpful and loving.

p.s I went hermit for 5 plus years. Came back into narco world even worse than ever before. Sometimes I wondered if killing them with kindness allowed the narco to kill with subterfuge instead. Psychologically mind-numbing when you are in it.

[onawah]

Thanks Raregem for your compassionate response.
This thread is certainly getting interesting!
Last week I actually left the situation where I was having to deal on a regular basis with a narcissist.
(And since then, I've been realizing how drained I was and how much I've needed a rest.)
It came about in a strange way; it was not quite my intention to leave the situation so abruptly, but it is probably best that it happened that way.
More later, but the focus now seems to go beyond understanding the weird dynamic between empaths and narcissists, to empaths realizing how they need to provide the space to heal THEMSELVES, and how the "relationship" ( if it can be called that) with the narcissist may be very instrumental in bringing that truth home to the empath. That urge to heal others can actually be quite destructive.

Posted by raregem (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
At this stage in my life, I'm not really sure I want to know, but short of becoming a complete hermit, it may be I will have to knuckle under.

Oh please, Onawah do not knuckle under. I completely appreciate your writing this. I, too keep dealing with the narco. It has been one week since I left a 3-year narco situation. It built slowly. He was a "friend" only with severe health issues. So he was able to use pity until I said no more. So many attacks at me. It made no sense at all. He left me hurting in many ways. I reflect on how this happened and I think my lesson (so far) is to KNOW my boundary and stick to it when it gets crossed. That is- no more contact or trust for them. I have attracted too many narcos starting with family. And, on to life's lessons and learning to soar above this. I try not to feel the excessive anger and it is much better. I am working on understanding true forgiveness to self and the narco- it is a progression right now.
It has been difficult to see how I was responsible for being abused- coming and going when I thought I was helpful and loving.

p.s I went hermit for 5 plus years. Came back into narco world even worse than ever before. Sometimes I wondered if killing them with kindness allowed the narco to kill with subterfuge instead. Psychologically mind-numbing when you are in it.