Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[Helene West]

When I went to college my classes were 9 out of 10 caucasian. Now the same college is about 30-40% caucasian. I'm a minority group on public transportation. I also have had enough observation and experience to say that many of those replacing caucasians feel quite entitled to do so and I feel I'm being nice in describing some of their attitudes as simply entitlement. Many of them, along with leftists type, seem to believe that there is some natural organic non-manipulated migration going on. Though I believe there will always be immigration and migrations of humans I don't believe that is what has taken place in Europe and now in lesser degrees the U.S. and other (formerly?) white countries. It's anything but 'natural' immigration but a forced agenda by a small ruling class and not for any humane reasons as I've mentioned.

Life is change. It's nothing but change.
Racism is changing just like every other human phenomena.
I hold there is more racism in the present moment (not 50 or 150 years ago) going towards caucasians than coming from them. I go on twitter and there are open calls for white genocide happening in several venues. I don't believe there is enough being discussed in this regard.

I've never seen anyone called out before on this forum the way D Leahy post #44 named me, turiya and sam with implications (shall I say accusation or targeting?) of promoting bigotry. Accusations of racism is the #1 techniques being used in western culture to stifle caucasians from expressing their feelings in what is being done to their countries or their culture. I'm disappointed to see the same tired, trite technique used by him. There's a handful of people I've come to be uninterested in their line of thinking and I largely skip many of their posts. No one is forcing me to read their posts or carry on discussion or debate with them. I'm free to move on. After 7 months being here I never had need to use an Ignore button and I didn't even know if there was one. There is. I think people who are averse to the really free expression of ideas should use it.

[zen deik]

17 Pakistani faces, all sitting or working there, simultaneously turned and stared at me. I was shocked, and probably looked it. Almost instinctively, I turned round and walked out. It was a totally bizarre experience, and one that I'd been quite unprepared for



"It is a natural response to segregate.... Birds of a feather.."

[turiya]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I needed a haircut, so I stopped and parked where I could see there was a hairdresser's. I walked in.

17 Pakistani faces, all sitting or working there, simultaneously turned and stared at me. I was shocked, and probably looked it. Almost instinctively, I turned round and walked out. It was a totally bizarre experience, and one that I'd been quite unprepared for.

Clearly, this was not a hairdresser's for white Englishmen. I was the one out of place there.

Reminds me of the time I was in India - I had always liked traveling 3rd rate buses & trains, staying at small family-run guest houses. I liked it because it allowed me to sink into the culture better - to get closer to the people of the region that I traveled.

Anyways, upon boarding the 3rd class train compartment, there sat about 30-40 - dark-skinned Indians. All eyes staring at me, as I was something they had never seen before - just everyone staring a blank, unblinking stare. It caught me off-guard for an instant moment. Then, I thought... since I got everybody's attention... I thought I would break out & do a little dancing jig... just to keep them entertained and to also allow myself to loosen up. Then, after that, they all seemed to go about their own affairs... for the most part. A few kept staring for a while - cuz, I understood that I was quite a rarity for many so see. Some places in India, it's quite rare to see a light-skinned person.

I also experienced true discrimination sometimes when I would look for a room at various hotels in these out of the way places. It became quite obvious after searching several hotel establishments that they did not want to rent to a caucasian individual. They had regulars that would be offended if they saw them renting to a light-skinned person. I eventually would find a room, though.

But, yeah. I found it a good experience to go through.
People are just people... cultural differences there are... also people in general have been treated badly at some time in their lives for whatever reason, mostly when they are children. And this is when all the deeply-seated attitudes towards other people have been imprinted. Its just human psychology - people are always going to react to something that has happened to them at some time in the past... doesn't necessarily mean it involves you, or myself, personally, at the time when the actual encounter of another individual takes place.

[Chester]

I see many things in this thread that I would like to comment upon with thoughtful posts. But there is one main comment I wish to make first.

I see some great points made by many of these posts. Points which I find myself agreeing with. But I can only agree with them when I look at the matter as a whole and that each point plays a role in creating this whole. My concern with readers and commentators is that they might see their point(s) as a ‘stand alone.’ That if only folks would accept “my point” and then change their thinking which might change their actions… the problem could be solved. IMO all these points have varying degrees of validity and more to my point, if we do not look at them all and adjust from there, the direction we are (and this world is) headed will continue and I doubt any commentator here or reader here wishes for this.

So I will address as much as I can from this more expanded point of view in my upcoming posts but implore folks not to focus solely on point by point, counter point by counter point… but that we somehow start to see things such that we can also see potential steps we could take that might lead to real solutions. I don’t have any illusions that any small group of people can change the world significantly and/or rapidly, but I do not want to teach my children by my example that one should not try or that one should dwell in a reality that we are all forever doomed… that what we do in this life makes no difference, even if that difference is only in realms and lifetimes beyond.

[AutumnW]

Purely a class issue. At the same time Trump was running for office all of this Breitbart material or type of material started flooding youtube. Rage at little white chicken hawks who like to make the planet go **Boom** and destroy whole countries was redirected. How the abused and angry Arab immigrants in Europe, became the enemy, in North America, I'll never know.

The immigration problem in Europe is a huge problem...granted. If there is any conspiracy going on though, it might be wise to characterize it differently. Who benefits from war and ensuing chaos and displacement? International WHITE nationalists/fascists, arms dealers, big banks who finance it.

As freaked out as the French apparently are by a feeling of being overrun in their own country, they haven't voted in le Pen, so far. Many of them would probably like to, but fear the big picture, which is a rise of fascism sweeping the globe.

I think those feeling crowded out of their neighbourhoods deserve a hearing. At the same time, it is in their best interest that they start to listen and listen very carefully, do some research and quit with knee jerk reactions. Their emotions can and will be used against them.

Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective. Dennis is correct.

[Helene West]

"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by DNA (here)
...

For all your intelligence and capability your intelligence will do you no good if you do not recognize the intent of the elite.

I think that you passionately believe that you know the intent of the elite, but you don't and I don't. A set of data points means something different to you (and yes, I recognize that what you're saying is a common viewpoint for alternative media sites' members - but that doesn't mean it is correct.) I think you (and many people) give the elite much more credit than is due. If they actually had the power attributed to them, they would already be in complete control and would be unstoppable. Their muscle (the US military and/or paid faux-Muslim mercenaries) is basically pulling off robberies of entire nations, people are scattering, and no one knows or cares where they scattered to. That's my take. The elite are mobsters, not global 3-dimensional chess grandmasters - or it would have already been checkmate. They are not nearly as strong in a coordinated agenda as you attribute to them.

Posted by DNA (here)
You seem to be apologizing for all the rape and murder the muslims have done in Europe and attribute it to a lack of assimilation.

That's really a BS comment. I am neither apologizing for any rape nor any murder by anyone. That was a terrible thing to say. And you know that I never attributed rape and murder to lack of assimilation. Those are baseless accusations. If I said something you disagree with, quote it back, in context. Don't just make **** up.

Posted by DNA (here)
The globalists want a ONE WORLD ORDER and in order to get it they have to DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS.
Destroying America and the European countries that have a decent standard of living is what they are doing now and it is pretty transparent.

Sorry, but this sounds like something hyperbolic out of the movie Reefer Madness. Your premise makes no sense. I think that you don't understand our enemy and our enemy's network, and you attribute a nearly magical power to them. They are just the elite scum that own everything, and they skim off of as many different transactions on the planet as possible. They are thugs - killing, torturing, robbing, raping, and pillaging is their modus operandi. If you have ever seen a visual representation of "the elite" network, it should be apparent that the vast, vast majority of the elite do not want to destroy the middle class that are a dependable supply of cashflow - the lifeblood of the elite's corporations. In fact, the giant monetary/economic collapse we are all expecting will greatly damage and even completely destroy many corporations and corporate empires, so that "planned monetary collapse" really only helps out the international banking cartel/Families. Then it makes sense that there would be infighting among the elite, and not any unified agenda (other than to keep the gravy train rolling, and to continue the aforementioned scratching of each other's backs.) Note that many corporate boards have members of other corporations on them. It's a massive, global network, not really the simple pyramidal shape we might want to imagine the "elite" to be.

Posted by DNA (here)
For you to not see this means for all your capability you are blind for the most part.

I see you as too gullible (ingesting too much alt-groupthink on this issue) and

Posted by DNA (here)
Do you really think the elite give a rat's ass for the muslim refugees and their well being?

No, I don't, and I never said they do. The people fleeing are the ones that ducked elite American bullets and elite American bombs, remember? When did I say that the elite cared about anyone but themselves? They are sociopaths.

You're portraying the opposite message from the elite-controlled media than reality - with anti-Muslim sentiment (and pro-US and pro-NATO ) being pumped from almost all media, with the exception being media for democrats (like MSNBC madcow and Huffington Post) using trump's anti-Muslim immigration policies and rhetoric in their propaganda campaign to laud the DNC and demonize trump, (who - IMO - is a moronic, narcissistic gasbag, not a demon.) Which media are giving rape and murder a pass?

Posted by DNA (here)
Why would the elite have the main stream media feigning such sympathy if not for an agenda?
You are correct in stating that 9/11 was completely staged and done by US insiders not a muslim contingency such as Al Queda, but the same cabal who orchestrated 9/11 never left power and it is quite evident in the actions of Obama. It was obvious in Hillary's stated agenda and it is obvious now that they have steered Trump into accomplishing their goals as well.
So why would these 9/11 conspirators want muslims in the western countries? This is all orchestration and I plead with you to exercise detachment and not succumb to the ploys for pity as communicated by the main stream media which we know is controlled 100% by the CIA who in turn are controlled 100% by the banking elite.
Why are all the main stream media channels broadcasting the same message? This should be a major red flag for you.

If there are more Muslims scattered around the planet, mixed-in with non-Muslims, the psychopaths running their phony, eternal, war on terror ruse would have an easier time scaring everyone, I suppose, since they have achieved their propaganda goal of implanting the meme: Muslims=terrorists to keep their war going forever. Anyone propping-up that meme is helping the terrorists (and by "terrorists" I do mean the USA, INC. and its affiliated uber-mobsters.)

And it is healthy to say "I don't know" when we don't know.

[Chester]

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

Helene, I have a great appreciation for and understanding about many of the views you expressed. I also understand that many folks take much of their views from a slice of history. But I also see that not only is a slice in time limited, but when one looks at a slice in time from the experiential perspective of someone having their experience in only one part of the current planet we share, then I also see thay conclusions may not take into account other experiences, other histories and especially may not be considering what new dynamic we might create.

In fact, the intent of this thread (stated many times and yet not yet grasped) is to consider solutions... and it seems to me that if we cannot find a grand common ground from which we might agree (a common ground that embraces all these various sub issues, admits them, looks at why we experience them) and where we agree that we would all like to see a better world for all, then we once again approve the perhaps mythical (or perhaps not) elite who view us all as idiots.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

I find the biggest megaphones are manned by those who have a bit of the big picture, extrapolate far too much from their tiny piece of reality. The alt right end up over interpreting -- weaving a web of 'logic' out of their dot connecting. Alex Jones is like a screaming spider on acid. His web starts off making sense and then becomes insane.

Nevertheless everybody's experience need to be taken into account, even of the conclusions they draw are off the mark.

[Chester]

In addressing Dennis Leahy's post #67 above, I have learned (though I will not speak for anyone else) that it is far wiser for me to begin with "I don't know" than any other place. Dennis emphasized this in that post and I agree.

What I have also found helpful in my career as an odds making consultant is that it is very important to consider all possibilities. Sometimes the possibility set includes combinations of possibilities as the best, most accurate description of a result or a reality. In addition there may be the need to include "none of the above" in a set of possibilities (to account for the unforeseen).

It seems to me that DNA has looked at the matter over DNA's years of worldly experience and sees it like this - "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, smells like a duck, flies like a duck... then it is probably a duck." And of course that duck fits what he has concluded. I cannot disagree with him as I see this scenario as a very real possibility.

I cannot fault someone for forming a pretty solid "odds" rating such as DNA appears to have concluded which may be, from DNA's perspective... over 90% accurate and maybe more like 99.9%.

To live life is to take risks, form judgments and act on them, etc. And surely folks can see no two people may agree to the exact same degree on everything much less anything much less something as complex as "who is running the world, how are they doing it and why."

But I still don't understand how we allow these differences of degree and perhaps in some cases a great degree to stop us from exploring solutions. I just don't get it.

One question I have for Dennis.

Dennis, your view appears to me to be quite parsimonious and thus as an odds maker, I would make odds higher that your description of how the world works is more likely accurate yet then we have the testimony of the Dutch financial guy that has just started sweeping across the internet where this guy's testimony is being judged by many folks I respect as quite likely genuine and also, quite likely very accurate.

And so why I bring this up is that the gentleman, Ronald Bernard, that gave this testimony shared what has been widely discussed in the alternative community - that a small (according to his words "8,000 to 8,500) group of elite are immersed in the practice of a religion which some here would call Satanism and what he called Liciferianism.

And so my question to myself (not just when I listened to this interview) is... are these practices all and only for the purpose of creating the circular blackmail "mutual guns to the head of each other" network which may ensure a high degree of secrecy for those who get close to the top or for those who enter these top levels and/or is there also a supernatural advantage folks perceive they gain through the practices of their "religion?"

Are you open minded that there may indeed be a supernatural component here that should be considered as possible and thus if so, should be handicapped?

And then finally... if you might be open minded to this, is it possible there be "other worldly beings" involved?

And then finally, if you might be open minded as to that, is it possible that there might be other worldly beings who are actually and only represented by one manifestation of an other worldly group of the same beings and who remain disguised by their ability to create the belief there are many different types and densities of beings... and perhaps even the belief that there is a 'head bad guy' such as "Satan" or "Lucifer" or any other convenient name we might use as a pointer to a single being?

Why I ask all this is because I truly wish to know what you might think is possible and also maybe even what odds you might make about each possibility, branch of possibilities and/or of other possibilities that may exist.

I ask this because at the level of just human beings and our shared 3D reality, I consider what you share and I have made odds very high you have put a great deal of thought into this and have a pretty good description with a bit of explanation, at least at this 3D level, of what is actually going on here on Earth.

[Chester]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

I find the biggest megaphones are manned by those who have a bit of the big picture, extrapolate far too much from their tiny piece of reality. The alt right end up over interpreting -- weaving a web of 'logic' out of their dot connecting. Alex Jones is like a screaming spider on acid. His web starts off making sense and then becomes insane.

Nevertheless everybody's experience need to be taken into account, even of the conclusions they draw are off the mark.

Yes... agree that everybody's experience need to be taken into account and same with their interpretations of their experiences and the world views they currently hold. Yet discussions are derailed when we name call and label. I know I have done my fair share of labeling and so do not think I am not looking into my own mirror when I say this.

[AutumnW]

Sam, I hope you don't mind an interjection here. There are VIP's -- Very Important Perverts-- in high positions and there has been cover up activity, on the part of others in power. That to most people, is a given.

How do you get from there to the idea that Ronald Bernard is correct? I want to understand because it appears these kinds of leaps in logic helped elect Trump.

[Desire]

9ofClubs
when you talk about Canada I see Canada and Canadians would remain where they are, STAY in place. They would not be moving to The US. That is a big difference from moving every one here to the US keeping them in their own space. Then it would be up to the US to accept them , and instruct them in our way of life if that is what THEY wanted to do.. Not every Country wants to be a part of the US you know. There are those Counties that like things just the way they are.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

I find the biggest megaphones are manned by those who have a bit of the big picture, extrapolate far too much from their tiny piece of reality. The alt right end up over interpreting -- weaving a web of 'logic' out of their dot connecting. Alex Jones is like a screaming spider on acid. His web starts off making sense and then becomes insane.

Nevertheless everybody's experience need to be taken into account, even of the conclusions they draw are off the mark.

Yes... agree that everybody's experience need to be taken into account and same with their interpretations of their experiences and the world views they currently hold. Yet discussions are derailed when we name call and label. I know I have done my fair share of lebeling and so do not think I am not looking into my own mirror when I say this.

We all label for the sake of convenience. It's not always insulting, though it may not be exactly deifying either! I can respect those who have an issue with illegal immigration, if they feel their livelihood is threatened by those who are being taken advantage of by employers. But here is the difference in perspective.

Those who complain bitterly about illegal Chicanos handily ignore the people, often white employers, who hire them. Why is anger directed at people who are desperate to survive and aimed away from those who employ them?

[Atlas]

Refugees & the Future of Peace

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=688FJQLzeNM

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
...
One question I have for Dennis.

Dennis, your view appears to me to be quite parsimonious ...
...

I'm not sure about your use of the word 'parsimonious', in the context you're using it. Parsimonious means 'frugal.'

Anyway, sure, I am open to possibilities - I just don't elevate them to 'probabilities.'

Again, I don't know. At least I know that I don't know. My worldview is wrong - it HAS to be, because I am in the dark about so much that is hidden from me. My concept of "the Elite" is wrong for the same reason. Worst of all, there are probably tidbits of the truth about the Elite mixed in with a massive amount of disinformation and conjecture from researchers that sincerely believe that they know the whole truth, so even the pool of knowledge is polluted. Best guess from the best researcher is still just a guess.

Honestly, I consider anything I would write about the inner workings of the Elite to be at best a notch or two below an educated guess, because the missing data doesn't even allow me to make an educated guess. I think I am just one of the few to admit that. But, I'll offer my thoughts for what it's worth/worthless:

[myUneducatedGuess]From my (limited) research, it appears to me that the group of people that I generally call "the Elite" are more complex and less organized than the simplistic view I held years ago. I had visualized a simple pyramid-shaped (or as John Perkins notes, a pyramid with a tall spire) hierarchical structure. I envisioned a top tier occupied by a single man (I snarkily referred to earlier as "Megalo Don", the top Global Mafia Don.) I later dismissed that notion, and replaced it with the idea of a small cluster of men - themselves representing their empires/"Families"/families, and unified only in limitless global greed and thirst for power - and a handshake (or a board seat) to 'work the system' together. I think there are a few highly dangerous factions of the Elite, such as the militaristic, corporatist, imperialists commanding the US military and what appears to be a different faction commanding the CIA/Deep State covert military. These Elite factions appear not to all be working together towards the exact same agenda.

My best guess on the satanic stuff within the Elite is that some of them are "all in" (and believe it confers magical powers) and most of the rest of the attendees at satanic rituals and sacrifices show up because they are expected to and their absence would be seen as suspicious. Like the Dutch guy that enjoyed the naked women at the Elite satanic parties, but balked at witnessing human sacrifice, was probably seen as suspicious by the group (and I think the Dutch guy is lucky to still be alive and talking about it.) Yes, I do believe there is an immense amount of blackmail/threats used to glue the perps and witnesses together, to keep the dark secrets. And, I think a lot of politicians have been blackmailed (with pedophilia probably used as the main blackmail tool) as well.

I think there is a strong possibility that shifting the seemingly inhuman level of evil away from humans and onto "aliens" or even "archons" is a "deus ex machina" cop-out. There is no crime in history that would be impossible for humans to perpetrate. With zero personal experience with "aliens", I have no idea what their agenda is. Reading Wade Frazier's work convinces me that actual free-energy technology is so transformative that it would end any sort of logical reason for aliens to come and plunder Earth. And why would aliens allow the spoils of planetary war that they are orchestrating to go into the coffers of the banks and "defense" contractors? I suspect that some ET technology has been reverse-engineered, but not that ETs are in control of Earth.[/myUneducatedGuess]

See, I told you it was worthless.

[Helene West]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

Helene, I have a great appreciation for and understating about many of the views you expressed. I also understand that many folks take much of their views from a slice of history. But I also see that not onlyy is a slice in time limited, but when one looks at a slice in time from the experiential perspective of someone having their experience in only one part of the current planet we share, then I also see thay conclusions may not take into account other experiences, other histories and especially may not be considering what new dynamic we might create.

In fact, the intent of this thread (stated many times and yet not yet grasped) is to consider solutions... and it seems to me that if we cannot find a grand common ground from which we might agree (a common ground that embraces all these various sub issues, admits them, looks at why we experience them) and where we agree that we would all like to see a better world for all, then we once again approve the perhaps mythical (or perhaps not) elite who view us all as idiots.

I agree Sam but those left of center dominate most of the media, are bullying and threatening those differing from themselves in our universities and succeed in a certain degree of censorship in our social media. I speak for those who I feel don't have much of a voice today. If you're caucasian you have to be in your late '50s and older to have known a childhood that was free of taking in messages that you are inherently a bad person. That is racism. When demographics change there will be a corresponding change in cultural phenomena and the changes in racism is naturally one of them. But racism especially in the last decade or so has been a racket. Those who were oppressed in the past are loathe to give up their oppressed status or at least make room on the oppression stage it has worked well for them. The underclass of whites, that is the non-elite class, which are the majority, are not being exempt from cultural genocide, we are merely last on the list. Trying to shut us up by use of the weaponized word 'racism' is going to prove to be more and more obsolete and not reflective of Today's society..
You want solutions. Read turiya's post today where the illegals are saying they don't care anymore about being citizens, that is not even their goal anymore. People cannot fathom the end of america, human normalcy bias is too strong.

[Chester]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Sam, I hope you don't mind an interjection here. There are VIP's -- Very Important Perverts-- in high positions and there has been cover up activity, on the part of others in power. That to most people, is a given.

How do you get from there to the idea that Ronald Bernard is correct? I want to understand because it appears these kinds of leaps in logic helped elect Trump.

Hi, I would need specifics to try and respond.

What I can say is this - Based on what Ronald Bernard said in the interview and based on a great deal of other testimonies and based on the theory that, for example, Washington is dominated by politicians who are exposed to blackmail either because they were foolish or because they enjoy sexual acts society condemns and based on the possibility that many of these folks are actively involved in dark religious practices why cannot all these things be mostly or greatly true?

And just for the record, I am very glad Trump got elected. No less now than I was when it happened.

[TargeT]

Posted by Helene West (here)
Trying to shut us up by use of the weaponized word 'racism' is going to prove to be more and more obsolete and not reflective of Today's society..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gsTlOm1iknc

I personally think it's ridiculous, but then I see some of the "everything's racist" meme being repeated here on this very forum. I can't help but think it has something to do with "victim" archetype and it's constant companion the "savior" archetype.. these seem to be very attractive mantels for humans to function under, even if logic and rationality are sacrificed.

[Chester]

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Helene, I have a great appreciation for and understanding about many of the views you expressed. I also understand that many folks take much of their views from a slice of history. But I also see that not only is a slice in time limited, but when one looks at a slice in time from the experiential perspective of someone having their experience in only one part of the current planet we share, then I also see thay conclusions may not take into account other experiences, other histories and especially may not be considering what new dynamic we might create.

In fact, the intent of this thread (stated many times and yet not yet grasped) is to consider solutions... and it seems to me that if we cannot find a grand common ground from which we might agree (a common ground that embraces all these various sub issues, admits them, looks at why we experience them) and where we agree that we would all like to see a better world for all, then we once again approve the perhaps mythical (or perhaps not) elite who view us all as idiots.

I agree Sam but those left of center dominate most of the media, are bullying and threatening those differing from themselves in our universities and succeed in a certain degree of censorship in our social media. I speak for those who I feel don't have much of a voice today. If you're caucasian you have to be in your late '50s and older to have known a childhood that was free of taking in messages that you are inherently a bad person. That is racism. When demographics change there will be a corresponding change in cultural phenomena and the changes in racism is naturally one of them. But racism especially in the last decade or so has been a racket.

Those who were oppressed in the past are loathe to give up their oppressed status or at least make room on the oppression stage it has worked well for them. The underclass of whites, that is the non-elite class, which are the majority, are not being exempt from cultural genocide, we are merely last on the list. Trying to shut us up by use of the weaponized word 'racism' is going to prove to be more and more obsolete and not reflective of Today's society..

You want solutions. Read turiya's post today where the illegals are saying they don't care anymore about being citizens, that is not even their goal anymore. People cannot fathom the end of america, human normalcy bias is too strong.

Hi Helene - first I apologize that I submitted my first reply to you without proofreading it and I made an error. I erroneously wrote "understating" instead of "understanding" in my reply. It makes a big difference.

Anyways,

I agree that the current iteration of the MSM is loaded up with "left of center" idealogues. I wouldn't argue with all the verifiable data that has come out about that.

I agree that there is the worst bullying effort I have ever seen in my lifetime with regards to expression of views (which is usually done verbally - thus falls under the free speech protections). But I see "the gang up" is by leftists, a huge percentage of the media, a huge percentage of college professors and teachers at other educational levels, most professional bureaucrats, many multi-national corporations with political ties to lefty politicians and right politicians who will do their bidding regardless of how that bidding goes against the lable's espoused ideology, democratic politicians, RINO "repupublicans," NEOCons and NEOLibs, some of the deep state actors embedded in the intelligence agencies who lean left or are directly associated with the left, many deep state actors who may hold non liberal values but are far more willing to remain a part of their team than not so stay silent, those who identify themselves as democrats or socialists, vote democrat or would have voted for Bernie, those who are hawks and vote for the most hawkish candidate, those who identify as Republicans and so vote that way regardless of what their candidate stands for and with regards to the overt left... many of these clowns are supported by folks like and including George Soros, et al. and to the tune of hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. And I left many off the list but those are the ones that come to my head.

I agree racism has been a racket but for far longer than a decade, especially within the Black community. Blacks who pretend to be the champion for Blacks who, in reality, sell out Blacks by fooling the vulnerable Blacks and cashing in on it either by achieving political success or by heading organizations that pretend to help Blacks. Note I don't say "African American" because my black friends tell me they think it is stupid to waste six more syllables to verbally point to the same thing. I have not even touched other ethnically associated organizations and movements, but so many play the same game whereas I have noticed one pretty interesting exception. There's significantly less of this within the Asian ethnic communities and interestingly, the documented success of ethnically Asian youth in schools (grades) and jobs (getting more and being paid more) tells the tale and you would think that if the media really had the best interests of the public in mind, they would highlight this fact, yes?

Please, point out Turiya's post as I would like to read what he wrote that you are referring to. I cannot recall reading a post of his that stated that illegals don't care anymore about being citizens (and where I assume this would include "being legal" such as a legal resident or in the US legally). And with regards to whether more or less care about any of that today, I care that folks here in the United States are here legally just the same as the government and a significant amount of the citizenry of a good two dozen countries I have visited extensively and in some cases lived in care about folks being in their country legally. The only exception to this I have experienced is when someone wealthy brings job opportunities to locals in some of these countries... in those cases, the people don't care about their employer's legal status all that much.