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Thread: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

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    Default More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Many on the forum are familiar with Miles Mathis and he has his fans and detractors both but If you are not familiar with him he is an essayist, artist and I believe amateur scientist but I haven't read any of his science. I read his essays where he 'decontructs' famous people or events. I read his on Icke only because he's so popular and I don't know much about him personally. I'm not saying if I like/dislike/believe or don't believe. I just found below interesteing.

    One of Mathis' contentions is that a great many famous people past and present, white, black, jew and gentile are ultimately related. That their lineage can be traced to a group of surnames from medieval times that he refers to as 'the peerage' and that it is their offspring that arise in the world of entertainment (including the 'news'), art, science, politics, etc. The world is Their 0yster and there are very few rags to riches stories or picking themselves by their bootstrap stories in real life.

    Another contention of Mathis is that belief in aliens, reptilians or theories like we live in a hologram being beamed by entities in Mars or somewhere else are 'projects' studiously perpetrated on us by the ruling class via their private police forces we call Intel, because - they want us to be distracted believing anything other than we are ruled by a very Human ruling class, richer than God, owning most industries and assets, and largely (not solely) jewish who want nothing for us but crushing us spiritually, financially, etc.

    Five pages is short for a Mathis essay and 2.5 of those pages are tracing genealogy. I've left all that out here including tracing the peerage lineage of his two former wives. Link to the full essay is at bottom for those who want to pursue. He starts at the House of Names website, where you will find the name Icke is a variation of the name Hicke or Hickes which he shows is part of 'the peerage'.

    What I'm copying here is just a few paragraphs of more interesting Bio. I've listened to interviews with Icke which sounded very intelligent and persuasive, though I've never heard him go on about the famous 'reptilians'. I thought he had been an athlete of some sort and just had a personal 'epiphany' about how the world was really run and began doing his own research. I never bothered finding out anything further about him.

    Further bio:

    "...Icke's dad was in the RAF. Before he became a conspiracy theorist, David played football for Hereford United, was a reporter for the Leicester Advertiser , and then was an announcer for BBC radio. In 1976, he moved to Saudi Arabia, allegedly to “help” with their football team. That's curious. In 1981 he became a news presenter for BBC's Newsnight, a major news program in the UK. He continued to work on BBC Sport until 1990, by which time he was a household name. In 1989 he was one of a handful of panelists in the high-profile debate on animal rights at the Royal Institute of Great Britain.

    Suddenly in 1990 Icke appeared to go off the deep end, claiming he was the “Son of the Godhead” and claiming to receive messages from the beyond from Wang Ye Lee. That name sounds like another Intel joke. Icke's wife Atherton changed her name to Michaela, which she claimed was an aspect of the Archangel Michael. Rather than put them both in straightjackets, Terry Wogan was instructed to invite Icke to come on his program 'Wogan', a popular prime-time talk show. Icke also appeared on BBC radio with Nicky Campbell, and ITV with Fern Britton. I have to ask you, does this sound like a logical response to a colleague going starkers? Invite him on national media to make an ass of himself? No, this looks like the start of a new project, doesn't it, with this as his bon voyage publicity. Remember, Wogan had him back on a few years later, by which time he was already vindicated. Wogan backed down and appeared to be lectured by the superior Icke. Very very strange. Ask yourself this: why would Wogan have him on, and why would Wogan allow Icke to have the upper hand? These shows are completely staged, and Wogan and his people were in control. They could have edited the show any way they liked. So why run promotion for Icke? And, of course, they did a similar thing with Alex Jones on Piers Morgan a few years later. Piers is a Morgan. Hello, does anyone ever make any connections? Does anyone even look at a last name? These people don't have to hide because their audience is so gullible.

    Within the year, Icke had a book out with a mainstream publisher. Gill and MacMillan published Truth Vibrations in 1991. Seeing that Gill and MacMillan mainly publishes educational books for school and college students, why would they publish this wild conspiracy theory of a guy claiming to be a “World Visionary”? It makes no sense. Although we are told Truth Vibrations was a bestseller, only one copy comes up in the US at Ebay on a search.

    Five more books came out in the next three years. This from a guy who couldn't get through high school, dropping out at age 15. And again, all were promoted by mainstream publishers. The first of these was Love Changes Everything. But we find the same thing at Ebay, with only two copies available worldwide, one in Australia and one in the UK! It was published by Aquarian Press. (note - he believes Aquarian Press is M16 maintained)

    We are told Icke has a huge audience, but to me (Mathis) it looks manufactured. The lack of books at Ebay tends to confirm that. We see huge audiences for his lectures, but those can be bought. Remember, Leni Riefenstahl had 30,000 extras for her films back in the 1930s. .....

    In my opinion (Mathis speaking), Icke is from the families he is pretending to out, and his project is to blackwash conspiracy theories in general, by making them look as whacky as possible. This is what all the Reptilian shape-changer stuff is about. Like Ezra Pound, Bill Cooper, Eustace Mullins , and hundreds of others, Icke is an Anti, sent in to sully-by-association anyone who allies themselves to him, or resembles him in any way. They want to be sure that anyone who researches Jewish subjects, in whatever way, can be tarred and feathered with the same pot as Icke. I think that it is possible that, like
    Pound, Icke may someday soon be instructed to go completely mad, ending up in a mental institution. This will finally and abruptly blackwash all his statements about Zionists. But since he has appeared half-mad all along, this may not be necessary.

    Full essay:
    http://mileswmathis.com/icke.pdf

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Mathis is stretching history.

    I was there. There was nothing 'strange' about Icke being invited on to Wogan & Nicky Campbell's show. Mathis just fished those two out to suit his little theory.

    Icke was all over the media at the time because he had become involved in green politics and was already developing a media presence that was independent of his old 'sports presenter' identity. Sure, the Wogan thing was a bit of a setup but it was classic TV. The BBC were up for it, the audience were up for it Wogan was up for it and...most of all...Icke was.

    What Mathis fails to acknowledge is that the Icke phenomenon of 1990 wasn't isolated. It happened against a background of widespread political AND philosophical re-appraisal of the world around us. That was where the demand for his books came from. They'd be found in 'new age' sections of bookshops which were themselves another symptom of the phenomenon.

    Far from being some kind of 'plant' as Mathis alludes to, Icke actually arrived late to the party. Even by that time many of us were already well down the rabbit hole, dissecting everything from the Mayan Calander to Isamu Noguchi's prophetic 1947 sculpture "The Face to be Seen from Mars", stumbling over synchronicities in our own lives and getting familiar with the idea of trans-physical lifetimes.

    Sure, Icke may well be himself closely related to the very bloodlines he talks about, but that wouldn't detract from the veracity of his accounts for me. It generally takes one to know one and we probably all are to some extent. Just a question of degree
    Last edited by indigopete; 15th May 2017 at 14:57.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Well, that's pure nonsense. More that discredits Miles Mathis's very limited ability to present good information.

    (In my own fairly strong opinion! And I do understand that not all forum members agree. )

    I know David Icke personally, and have spent 24/7 time with him. This smear piece can be disregarded.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Here's the most significant take-away from the Icke philosophy (IMHO of course) and what's also the thing that scotches any myth of Icke being a plant. It's a point that I first saw him present in a talk to about 15 people in the Quacker Society hall in Newcastle around 1994.

    It's also something that I feel is still underrepresented today:

    He noted that when we live our daily lives, we tend to push things out of our way that are difficult to deal with. Say, parts of our personality that we don't acknowledge or embrace and work with. The dynamics of human and societal interactions are such that these aspects of our personalities then start to manifest outside of ourselves (as a kind of reflection) and that manifestation keeps growing until we reconcile it with its original source in ourselves. Then when we realise that and start dealing with it, the external manifestation goes away.

    So lets say for example I am scared to show anger because I have an innate fear of being 'bad' to other people. I might then start having an increasing number of encounters with 'angry people' in my life because my communication deficit incurs frustration in others. I 'pushed it outside' of myself but am now face to face with it which then makes me have to deal with it anyway. Thats just the mechanics of growth and you can see it everywhere.

    Similarly, this happens at an aggregate level in all of society. So the 'Illuminati' are not a malevolent race literally, they're really just ourselves not acknowledging our inner power. We've pushed it outside of ourselves and as soon as we take it back the illuminati will go away. However, turns out that little phrase "taking out power back" is not quite as simple as it seems. It doesn't necessarily mean becoming more assertive and in fact probably means different things to different people. Thats the process of discovery which takes some time, but it does help to know that it's going on.

    Far from being any kind of zealot or purveyor of agendas, David Icke is actually a very analytical and logical thinker in essence.

    At any rate, that little talk he gave back then convinced me that he was genuine because it was a peice of science that was easily testable and didn't involve buying into anything in particular. Next to that, Mathis's appraisal of Icke is about as "deep and meaningful" as an oil slick on an Ocean IMO.
    Last edited by indigopete; 15th May 2017 at 15:21.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    "The day is coming when even the most closed-minded ridiculers will have to face the truth." ~ David Icke
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    I have to agree how suspicious the red carpet to fame was and should not be ignored. If Icke has whitewashed the Jewish factor all along too that seals it for me. There's goes another one. More and more prominent players long on the alt scene are getting outed, including many prominent 50's, 60's and 70's philosophers/writers too who seeded the 'new age' scene... to set the stage for the 'alt media' world...to become the controlled opposition and misdirect the always present and annoying thinkers and rebels... and the content of these finally outed seeded disinfo players needs to be totally re-evaluated, certainly no longer taken face value.

    If anyone finds their virtual fists instantly flying up to make excuses for 'their guy' in the face of serious red flags like this I think they're missing the point. The outing doesn't mean everything they said is wrong, but you'll have to sort out the good from the bad. I can then file away what themes and memes are being planted and promoted and see who else is corroborating it. For me it becomes another great lesson in how crafty, logical and believeable false information can be until you wake up AGAIN, like any formerly blindly accepted religion.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I have to agree how suspicious the red carpet to fame
    "Red Carpet" ? Is this a parallel universe you're describing ?

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    If Icke has whitewashed the Jewish factor
    He hasn't, so why are you alluding it ?

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    I have to say, I'm quite shocked at the drivel I'm reading here. I expect more from long time Avalon members.

    I've been to David's talk in Dublin this year. It was fantastic. I made some fantastic genuine friends there. Certainly not paid to be there.

    David Icke was ridiculed and laughed at and nearly destroyed for being himself and exposing the system for what it is. He has consistently told the truth and shared his research for the last 30 years.

    I ask any of you who feel fit to cast doubts or aspersions to back up what you say with 'some' kind of credible evidence. I have very little respect for people that don't do this. Any twit can sling some mud...

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    A guy is suspect because he is called Morgan ? Come on: anyone in Wales who isn’t a Jones is a Morgan.

    Here is a story from a partly autobiographical novel, so I don’t know if there is any truth to it or not. Paul Auster’s 4321 begins with a eastern European Jew emigrating to the US in 1900. Someone tells him to give his name as Rockefeller, but he forgets, and when asked his name, he says ‘Ikh hob forgessen’, which is Yiddish for ‘I’ve forgotten!’ and ends up sounding like a Scottish Presbyterian as Ichabod Ferguson.

    Many people in France called Blanc had an immigrant ancestor whose name was originally noted as... Blank: they gave no name and so were called Blanc. My point is that if immigrants can/could call themselves whatever they liked or nothing at all, then there could well be a few Rockefellers or Morgans in the mix pretending to be the possibly illegitimate offspring of the rich and famous.

    If there is a plant in this story, it is very likely Miles Mathis himself, as others have suggested. I don’t go that far, but I have come a very different route from Bill Ryan to come to the same conclusion as Bill.


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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I have to agree how suspicious the red carpet to fame was and should not be ignored. If Icke has whitewashed the Jewish factor all along too that seals it for me. There's goes another one. More and more prominent players long on the alt scene are getting outed, including many prominent 50's, 60's and 70's philosophers/writers too who seeded the 'new age' scene... to set the stage for the 'alt media' world...to become the controlled opposition and misdirect the always present and annoying thinkers and rebels... and the content of these finally outed seeded disinfo players needs to be totally re-evaluated, certainly no longer taken face value.

    If anyone finds their virtual fists instantly flying up to make excuses for 'their guy' in the face of serious red flags like this I think they're missing the point. The outing doesn't mean everything they said is wrong, but you'll have to sort out the good from the bad. I can then file away what themes and memes are being planted and promoted and see who else is corroborating it. For me it becomes another great lesson in how crafty, logical and believeable false information can be until you wake up AGAIN, like any formerly blindly accepted religion.
    Thanks. Interesting reactions! I once read an article about arrests made in connection with a group called Skinheads for the 2nd Amendment. this one may be real obvious but the point is to associate whackos with something the ruling class wants discredited. It is Intel 101.
    Icke does warn/talk about zionism. but people also associate him with reptilians. His second wife told the press he started thinking she was a reptilian (she later denied it), they then make the connection - oh it's that reptilian guy picking on the jews. so researching 'picking on' the (ruling class, not ordinary) jews/zionists will also look stupid.
    I'm not saying I buy it, I question everything these days, but it's intriguing. Also the premise of the the career genres of life being the dominion for the offspring of the ruling classes primarily with very few real working people arising to positions of fame and power.
    it's a silly point but recently I found out sean penn wasn't irish, silly me. he's the grandson of a rabbi...lol. if I find out daniel craig (007) is jewish, sorry but somehow i will be down in the dumps...

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    A guy is suspect because he is called Morgan ? Come on: anyone in Wales who isn’t a Jones is a Morgan.

    Here is a story from a partly autobiographical novel, so I don’t know if there is any truth to it or not. Paul Auster’s 4321 begins with a eastern European Jew emigrating to the US in 1900. Someone tells him to give his name as Rockefeller, but he forgets, and when asked his name, he says ‘Ikh hob forgessen’, which is Yiddish for ‘I’ve forgotten!’ and ends up sounding like a Scottish Presbyterian as Ichabod Ferguson.

    Many people in France called Blanc had an immigrant ancestor whose name was originally noted as... Blank: they gave no name and so were called Blanc. My point is that if immigrants can/could call themselves whatever they liked or nothing at all, then there could well be a few Rockefellers or Morgans in the mix pretending to be the possibly illegitimate offspring of the rich and famous.

    If there is a plant in this story, it is very likely Miles Mathis himself, as others have suggested. I don’t go that far, but I have come a very different route from Bill Ryan to come to the same conclusion as Bill.
    he may be as you suggest but he does go through exhaustive genealogies in his essays.
    You can close the thread if you wish if it's that annoying, I just found it interesting. I reject msm almost 100% but there are so personalities in alt land I sprinkle with grains of salt, he's just one of them.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    I also have grave suspicions about Mr. Mathis, but to reiterate, no one is 100% info or disinfo, deliberate or not. That's a fact.

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I have to agree how suspicious the red carpet to fame.....
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    "Red Carpet" ? Is this a parallel universe you're describing ?
    I'm referring to Helene's post of Miles summation of David's quick rise to prominence and published book writing. I'm saying if it indeed is accurate, and it would be easily factually confirmable or not, it certainly is suspicious.

    "...Icke's dad was in the RAF. Before he became a conspiracy theorist, David played football for Hereford United, was a reporter for the Leicester Advertiser , and then was an announcer for BBC radio. In 1976, he moved to Saudi Arabia, allegedly to “help” with their football team. That's curious. In 1981 he became a news presenter for BBC's Newsnight, a major news program in the UK. He continued to work on BBC Sport until 1990, by which time he was a household name. In 1989 he was one of a handful of panelists in the high-profile debate on animal rights at the Royal Institute of Great Britain.

    Suddenly in 1990 Icke appeared to go off the deep end, claiming he was the “Son of the Godhead” and claiming to receive messages from the beyond from Wang Ye Lee. That name sounds like another Intel joke. Icke's wife Atherton changed her name to Michaela, which she claimed was an aspect of the Archangel Michael. Rather than put them both in straightjackets, Terry Wogan was instructed to invite Icke to come on his program 'Wogan', a popular prime-time talk show. Icke also appeared on BBC radio with Nicky Campbell, and ITV with Fern Britton. I have to ask you, does this sound like a logical response to a colleague going starkers? Invite him on national media to make an ass of himself? No, this looks like the start of a new project, doesn't it, with this as his bon voyage publicity. Remember, Wogan had him back on a few years later, by which time he was already vindicated. Wogan backed down and appeared to be lectured by the superior Icke. Very very strange. Ask yourself this: why would Wogan have him on, and why would Wogan allow Icke to have the upper hand? These shows are completely staged, and Wogan and his people were in control. They could have edited the show any way they liked. So why run promotion for Icke? And, of course, they did a similar thing with Alex Jones on Piers Morgan a few years later. Piers is a Morgan. Hello, does anyone ever make any connections? Does anyone even look at a last name? These people don't have to hide because their audience is so gullible.

    Within the year, Icke had a book out with a mainstream publisher. Gill and MacMillan published Truth Vibrations in 1991. Seeing that Gill and MacMillan mainly publishes educational books for school and college students, why would they publish this wild conspiracy theory of a guy claiming to be a “World Visionary”? It makes no sense. Although we are told Truth Vibrations was a bestseller, only one copy comes up in the US at Ebay on a search.

    Five more books came out in the next three years. This from a guy who couldn't get through high school, dropping out at age 15. And again, all were promoted by mainstream publishers. The first of these was Love Changes Everything. But we find the same thing at Ebay, with only two copies available worldwide, one in Australia and one in the UK! It was published by Aquarian Press. (note - he believes Aquarian Press is M16 maintained)


    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    If Icke has whitewashed the Jewish factor
    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    He hasn't, so why are you alluding it ?
    I didn't remember one way or the other when I wrote that, but know this, and now do remember he plays the 'separate the Rothchilds from other jews' thing. I've come to realize that the 'zionists/rothchilds are the problem, regular jews are different' is a clever diversionary psyop. All jews fervently adhere to the disgusting premises of the Torah and Talmud which gives them license to thumb their collective noses at everyone else on the planet and laughingly kill (or celebrate when their leaders do) whether they admit it or not. You certainly don't see any jews speaking out against the 'zionist' criminality or the gross concepts of their religious texts. It's hard to believe this real truth of the jewish factor throughout history has eluded David... a 'blind spot' he shares with Alex Jones and Jeff Rense and other major players.
    Last edited by waves; 15th May 2017 at 17:07.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I also have grave suspicions about Mr. Mathis, but to reiterate, no one is 100% info or disinfo, deliberate or not.
    Including what you're writing here, sincerely and in good faith, yes?

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    David's quick rise to prominence
    ... was not 'quick'. He recounts how he gave lectures in the US in the 1990s, and there were literally 6 people in the room. But he kept on going.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I'm referring to Helene's post of Miles summation of David's quick rise to prominence and published book writing. I'm saying if it indeed is accurate, and it would be easily factually confirmable or not, it certainly is suspicious.
    The only thing of note about his early book writing is how few of them he sold and how slow his rise to 'prominence' was given how well known he was in the media at the time. I can remember going to bookshops for years and finding a few stacked on some obscure shelf in perhaps a single bookchain that was large enough to accommodate that type of esoteric material.

    There was no Icke 'quick rise to prominence' or 'red carpet' for anyone with an intact memory.

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I've come to realize that the 'zionists/rothchilds are the problem…All jews fervently adhere to the disgusting premises of the Torah and Talmud which gives them license to thumb their collective noses at everyone else on the planet and laughingly kill (or celebrate when their leaders do) whether they admit it or not.
    Then you appear to have come to a bit of a cul de sac in your research. (Due to drinking too much of the “zionists/rothchilds are the problem” coolaid possibly).

    The “zionists/rothchilds“ may have a monopoly on money but they don’t have a monopoly on despotism.

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    You certainly don't see any jews speaking out against the 'zionist' criminality or the gross concepts of their religious texts
    It helps if you take the hands away from your eyes. There isn't a religion on the planet who's existence isn't founded on a superiority complex
    Last edited by indigopete; 15th May 2017 at 17:19.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    but Indigo, if you own the money you own just about everything else...

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    So what ? That doesn't change the problem from one of spiritual growth to geneological genocide. It also doesn't make people "evil".

    The monetary system is the way it is because people asked for it. When they stop asking for it it'll stop being there.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I also have grave suspicions about Mr. Mathis, but to reiterate, no one is 100% info or disinfo, deliberate or not.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Including what you're writing here, sincerely and in good faith, yes?
    Absolutely! I've been deceived so many times I no longer give anyone a permanent pass on being questioned and feel that good faith questions like Helene began this thread with should be honored, corrected with reasons why and definitely not attacked with haughty disdain. I'm so more interested in not being deceived than clinging to anything I currently think is right.

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    David's quick rise to prominence
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ... was not 'quick'. He recounts how he gave lectures in the US in the 1990s, and there were literally 6 people in the room. But he kept on going.
    You're right, I remember hearing those lectures now. Helene's post reminds me though... do I really know all the mitigating facts that might recharacterize that story? The person telling their own story is often not the best source for detrimental facts. I'm saying if there are new issues and/or somewhat overlooked questions, let them be asked and answered.

    (added).. For example, if true, what is the significance of this?....Why in 1990 did Icke suddenly "appear to go off the deep end, claiming he was the “Son of the Godhead” and claiming to receive messages from the beyond from Wang Ye Lee..." after becoming a household name in Britain due to his many years of work at BBC Sport?
    Last edited by waves; 15th May 2017 at 18:24.

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by indigopete (here)
    So what ? That doesn't change the problem from one of spiritual growth to geneological genocide. It also doesn't make people "evil".

    The monetary system is the way it is because people asked for it. When they stop asking for it it'll stop being there.
    People asked for this monetary system? Oh, I thought we had it foisted on us. Live and learn...

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I've come to realize that the 'zionists/rothchilds are the problem, regular jews are different' is a clever diversionary psyop. All jews fervently adhere to the disgusting premises of the Torah and Talmud which gives them license to thumb their collective noses at everyone else on the planet and laughingly kill (or celebrate when their leaders do) whether they admit it or not.
    And what would be the consequences of that? Silence, imprison, kill all Jews? Any other suggestions? What about the ordinary people and their families who just want to live in peace, what about the secular jews who reject religion but consider themselves as Jewish out of ethnic, historical, cultural reasons? I was already thinking that "the Jews" had been replaced by "the Muslims" in their role as general scapegoats and symbols of evil. Such generalizations give me a headache, if not worse. It would be laughable, if it were not so sad.

    It is complex and the more one thinks about it and tries to differentiate, the more difficult it gets to find a common denominator within any group. Better to talk about individuals, organizations, institutions, specific power blocs or lobbies instead of "the Whatever".

    Precise differentiation is one of the things I like about David Icke.
    Last edited by Iloveyou; 15th May 2017 at 21:58. Reason: adding

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    Default Re: More on David Icke - Per Miles Mathis

    Quote Posted by Iloveyou (here)
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I've come to realize that the 'zionists/rothchilds are the problem, regular jews are different' is a clever diversionary psyop. All jews fervently adhere to the disgusting premises of the Torah and Talmud which gives them license to thumb their collective noses at everyone else on the planet and laughingly kill (or celebrate when their leaders do) whether they admit it or not.
    And what would be the consequences of that? Silence, imprison, kill all Jews? Any other suggestions? What about the ordinary people and their families who just want to live in peace, what about the secular jews who reject religion but consider themselves as Jewish out of ethnic, historical, cultural reasons? I was already thinking that "the Jews" had been replaced by "the Muslims" in their role as general scapegoats and symbols of evil. Such generalizations give me a headache, if not worse. It would be laughable, if it were not so sad.

    It is complex and the more one thinks about it and tries to differentiate, the more difficult it gets to find a common denominator within any group. Better to talk about individuals, organizations, institutions, specific power blocs or lobbies instead of "the Whatever".

    Precise differentiation is one of the things I like about David Icke.
    Nice post! I think you got to the essence of this particular issue. David is very specific about who he believes is responsible and he backs it up with the relevant research.

    There are "Jewish" organizations that are Anti-Zionist. Listed below is just one of many.

    http://www.ijan.org/who-we-are/

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