Mandela Effect: is it real or not?

[Patient]

The problem with this discussion is that for some people, things have changed and they know it. For others, things have not changed. With 2 distinct viewpoints one side will never be able to convince the other side.

[neutronstar]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by Wind (here)

Posted by Rachel (here)
Hi Wind

Hi Rachel. I had a feeling I would be seeing you here.

What does psychology offer as an explanation for when reality conflicts with highly vivid memories? What alternative theory would you suggest, other than poor memory, that's not "woo woo" (if you have any)?

How vivid are the memories? Are you absolutely certain of remembering some things? For example, I remember the Moonraker "braces scene" too, but then again... I think that I remember the girl in the movie having braces. I am not absolutely sure that she had braces and I believe that even I am able to misremember such thing with so many other people even though I could swear that the girl absolutely had braces in the movie. Yet now she doesn't! However, that's just the only example for me personally which gives even a tiny bit of credence to the theory of Mandela Effect. I saw the movie many years ago so my memory of the movie cannot be completely accurate by any means.

The subject of past and memories is quite interesting. I, like all of us can remember things from past so very clearly and yet we have forgotten some of the things we did yesterday. To my knowledge there's no other proper alternative to mandela effect than false memory syndrome, but then again I'm not sure. Maybe others would know better. It would be exciting and interesting if in reality we actually somehow switched timelines (God knows for what reason), but that's the less beliavable option. These days I take everything with a spoon of salt instead of a pinch. I'm open-minded though, I'm just constantly asking questions and challenging things, including the illusionary reality I perceive with all of my human senses.

I found this article:
https://aeon.co/ideas/on-shared-fals...mandela-effect

"Although it might be tempting to believe that the Mandela effect is evidence that parallel realities exist or that our universe is a glitchy simulation, a true scientist must test his or her alternative hypothesis by trying to disprove it. In light of known cognitive phenomena that can give rise to shared false memories, it’s highly unlikely that some of us are actually from an alternative universe crossing timelines with the present one. Nonetheless, the Mandela effect is still a fascinating case study in the quirks of human memory. For those who love thinking about how the mind works, it is perhaps even an example of the truth being stranger than fiction."

OK, well let me begin by saying I have plenty enough excitement in my life when it comes the strange and unusual, so we can safely put the need or temptation to believe because it's fascinating aside here. I also don't need to believe in the ME to know parallel realities exist, so there's no reward as such, I'm earnestly interested in understanding what's going on with it.

Regarding false memories, in my experience I don't see how it applies, unless I'm misunderstanding a part of the concept somewhere (let me know if I am). Let me explain. I can recall at least twice I've noticed changes before I saw it presented as a ME (I've actually only looked at ME videos a few times) so I didn't get the idea from anyone else, not only that, when I noticed them my response wasn't something like, "oh wow, ME", quite the opposite. Each time I noticed I thought to myself, "that's odd, I could have sworn it was such n such". I've observed my natural inclination is to initially discard my recollection and then I'm pretty blown away when I see it later on the internet. I've rarely looked at ME videos, too long in between to have seen them. What are the chances that out of all the little details that could possibly change, at least twice I've seen them first and then later seen loads of others online have seen the exact same detail change and remember it exactly the way I did. So yes, I'm certain.

Although it doesn't explain what I've observed thanks for your reply, appreciate it.

[ghostrider]

It became real for me in my lord of the rings six dvd collection ... the first one , the Hobbit an Unexpected Journey, has a line that was one way when I bought it, heard about the Mandela effect and now the line is changed ... Really freaked me out because I bought the collection two months ago, and watched it every night... The line is now , I do have some skill at Konckers if you must know... it should be, I do play a mean game of Knockers if you must know ... I drove my wife crazy watching the series every night, I know the lines, they have changed ... also gandoff hanging on the cliff should say run you fools , now he says fly you fools ... you can go on and on with examples of reality being different than what people remember ...

[Noelle]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

[ZShawn]

the verse in luke is mirrored in matthew 10:34 which says do not think i came to bring peace, but a sword.
which is as it has been for as long as I have read it... +3 decades

the one that baffles me is the lion shall lay down with the lamb from Isaiah
http://www.crosswalk.com/print/11605681/

which in all the imagery created for many decades even longer if one looks at old paintings, depict a lion and a lamb quite prominently yet the verse says wolf will dwell with the lamb....
so this is a very odd item as popular imagery relates a different idea than the verse depicts...
are things changing or are people collectively losing it?
the jury is still out on the long term issues related to electrosmog and other environmental toxins humanity is being exposed to....long term exposure to aluminum which is very high in soil and water samples for one....
who knows
i do not recall it ever saying wolf though, yet now it does

[EFO]

When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

[MythKitty]

I have an amazing memory for things of interest to me, things that were emotionally charged (unfortunate for my husband!), and things I've had to memorize and repeat time and again. When I first saw things online that were "wrong", I hadn't heard of the Mandela Effect, I just believed the individual who referenced the item in question wasn't really that familiar with it or didn't know how to spell.

Then I learned of the Mandela Effect and went through lists of changes people had noticed. Some of the changes mentioned contained things that I, too, thought were different than how they currently are, but I didn't have a deep connection to them so I chalked it up to faulty memory. However, there is one thing I am 100% certain of and that is the Lord's Prayer. Having been raised in church, as well as attending a Christian school for four years, I had recited the Lord's Prayer in unison with my peers too many times to count throughout childhood and my teenage years.

I still can't believe how the prayer now reads. I have no words...

Another thing I am 90% sure of, and my husband who collects coins is 100% sure of, is the man depicted on the US dime. There are other MEs I can relate to, but those two things stand out.

[Creedence]

I just realised the initials for Mandela Effect are ME.

There is no such thing as coincidence.

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by EFO (here)
When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

I haven't seen it, looks interesting, thank you.

If you're interested in a movie about parallel realities, I found Singularity Principle interesting. Its strength is that it was co-written and co-directed by physicist Dr David Deranian who was careful to make sure it was scientifically accurate.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HohVB4jH1Aw

[EFO]

Posted by Rachel (here)

Posted by EFO (here)
When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

I haven't seen it, looks interesting, thank you.

If you're interested in a movie about parallel realities, I found the Singularity Principle interesting. Its strength is that it was co-written and co-directed by physicist Dr David Deranian who was careful to make sure it was scientifically accurate.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HohVB4jH1Aw

Thanks for it and I will watch it tonight.

Well,regarding the trailer,somehow confirm my suspicion that we truly have not one but multiple parallel universes.Every second is a parallel universe.Perhaps in these parallel universes right when you read this post a mammoth cross your room and/or find yourself in a lab of advanced humankind in lets say 50000 years from now in 52017 simultaneously.Silly describing these universes.

[neutronstar]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
also gandoff hanging on the cliff should say run you fools , now he says fly you fools ...

He did say run you fools. I didn't know it has changed.

[InCiDeR]

I have been investigating this phenomenon or anomaly for quite some time. The main reason is that I have encountered discrepancies myself, that my perceived reality do not match my memory. More of that later.

There is a rather comprehensive list of 3 000 discovered anomalies to date. Not all of them I consider valid, however many of them are very hard to explain. I will come back to them as well.

Anyhow, here are some interesting papers (with math) that might or might not tie into the so called Mandela Effect:

---

Excerpt://

In the mid-20th century, the ‘Many Worlds’ theory first speculated that multiple versions of reality branch out from one another as distinct entities existing in discrete locations, without any interaction.

This new theory suggests that all of these infinite multiple worlds overlap and occupy the same region of time and space simultaneously, just like a quantum state.

“All possibilities are therefore realized – in some universes the dinosaur-killing asteroid missed Earth. In others, Australia was colonized by the Portuguese,” Wiseman said in a press release.

“But critics question the reality of these other universes, since they do not influence our universe at all. On this score, our “Many Interacting Worlds” approach is completely different, as its name implies.”

---

Under this new interpretation, some worlds in parallel universes would be nearly identical. In others, the “Butterfly Effect” is responsible for completely different outcomes.

Each universe is equally real; it isn’t that one universe is the truth while others are bizarre copies or lesser in any way. Wiseman also believes that the quantum forces responsible for driving this shared existence are also responsible for causing quantum interactions between the worlds.

Similarity between worlds interact through quantum forces, which influences the outcome of the world by making them slightly dissimilar.

Though the theory states that the worlds interact with one another on the quantum level and not on a larger scale, Wiseman also believes the theory does not preclude that possibility, either.

//:Excerpt

---

Here is a short article

Here is the whole review - with maths!

---

Also:

Charles Sebens, a philosopher of physics at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, says he is excited about the new approach to the theory of interaction between worlds.

He has independently developed similar ideas, to which he has given the paradoxical name of Newtonian quantum mechanics.

Essentially, he and Wiseman’s group take different approaches to the same general idea.

“They give very nice analyses of particular phenomena like ground-state energy and quantum tunnelling — I discuss probability and symmetry in more depth,” Sebens says.

“I think that together they do a nice job presenting this exciting new idea.” Sebens has written an article describing his approach which will be published in the journal Philosophy of Science.

---

Quantum Mechanics as Classical Physics

Philosophy of Science, 82 (April 2015) pp. 266–291


Quote:

Here I explore a novel no-collapse interpretation of quantum mechanics which combines aspects of two familiar and well-developed alternatives, Bohmian mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation.

Despite reproducing the empirical predictions of quantum mechanics, the theory looks surprisingly classical.

All there is at the fundamental level are particles interacting via Newtonian forces. There is no wave function. However, there are many worlds.

---

Further:

Max Tegmark, Parallel Universes


Quote:

"I survey physics theories involving parallel universes, which form a natural four-level hierarchy of multiverses allowing progressively greater diversity.

Level I:

A generic prediction of
inflation is an infinite ergodic universe, which contains Hubble volumes realizing all initial conditions
— including an identical copy of you about 10^10^29 m away.


Level II:

In chaotic inflation, other
thermalized regions may have different physical constants, dimensionality and particle content.


Level III:

In unitary quantum mechanics, other branches of the wavefunction add nothing qualitatively
new, which is ironic given that this level has historically been the most controversial.


Level IV:

Other mathematical structures give different fundamental equations of physics. The key question is not whether parallel universes exist (Level I is the uncontroversial cosmological concordance model),
but how many levels there are. I discuss how multiverse models can be falsified and argue that the there is a severe “measure problem” that must be solved to make testable predictions at levels II-IV"

---

There are similar theories (with math) popping up from several physicists all around the world.


So, maybe the idea of universes interacting is no longer so far-fetched after all! ;-)

[InCiDeR]

When it comes to false memories and the likes, the go to expert is usually considered to be Elizabeth Loftus

Even though I hold Elizabeth Loftus research in high regard, I consider this phenomenon to be slightly different than what her studies have explained and showed us.

Myself have a background as a psychologist/scientist with an orientation in cognition, memory and trauma.

The oddity when it comes to the Mandela Effect is that so many independent of each other remember or recall the exact same "faulty" details.

---

So, are our brain wired in the same way, therefore they are likely to remember the same things?

Well, both yes and no.

That might be the case when it comes to pareidolia, visual illusions, change blindness and other visuo-spatial perceptions and even some other sensory inputs where we "trick" the brain.

However, when it comes to more complex memory patterns (like some of the examples of this phenomenon), that is not the case.

Our encoding/storing and decoding/retrieval mechanisms and processes are the same. Probably even the storage area in the brain, even though that issue is much debated in general between scientist.

Some believe there are certain areas in the brain, like hippocampus, which are responsible for memory storage.

Others believe the brain work in a holographic way, meaning the memory is scattered all over the brain.

There are actually evidence for both positions, which in itself tell us we are just in the beginning of the process understanding the brain.

So, when it comes to the *brains processes* my first statement seems to be true. However, *what* is stored and retrieved is a whole different scenario.

Here our perception, contextual factors, environment, emotions, focus, culture familiarity, social influences etc etc comes into play. Both in the encoding as well as in the decoding process.

The later process is also very cue dependent and affected by our emotional state while processing and retrieving.

Therefore, *what* is stored and later remembered by different individuals is not likely to be the same. If not the contextual settings and other "clues" that are present also are the same.

Even Elizabeth Loftus studies shows us that no more than 20% of her test subjects actually created false memories, despite the fact the studies were made in controlled settings using forceful priming and suggestions.

Further, her studies also shows us that the retrieval of the false memory is cue dependent, meaning the test subject didn't spontaneously tell her about the false memory until they were asked (cue).

When it comes to this phenomenon we therefore have to show that the same variables were present when different, independent individuals stored and recalled a specific shared memory. The likelihood for that is slim, at best, non-existent, at worst.

I am not saying this is not a psychological phenomenon. I am saying it is a stretch to explain the phenomenon with current existing theories which are established in the field of psychological science.

If it is a pure psychological explanation, we probably have to combine some of the theories and even include some new hypothesis to give a likely explanation for this phenomenon as it is.

However, this has to be tested and researched first!

---

As I see it, nothing is proven yet. Similarity and correlation with existing theories do not equals causality. It might explain many of the cases, but not all of them.

So far there are no scientific studies made regarding this phenomenon, therefore no evidence of causality with existing theories are concluded.

However, it is in fact very tempting to draw conclusions based on early assumptions about this phenomenon, be it psychological theories or quantum theories or otherwise. But I try really hard to avoid biases or see something that isn't there!

Why is it tempting?

Well, the probability that hundreds of people independent of each other from different cultural, educational and environmental background and also using different mother language, remember the exact same thing, is extremely low... however not impossible... but nevertheless very very unlikely.

I believe most that have done research and science would agree with that statement.

In the history of psychological science that has never happened as far as I know. Not in this way. There are other similar things that have been taken place, however the circumstances and the variables were different.

They could more easily be referred to as "collective obsessional behavior" (mass delusions), "mass hypnosis", "confirmation bias", "cognitive dissonance" etc etc.

This case however do not really fulfill the criteria, why I find it extremely interesting.

But as a scientist I follow the evidence wherever they take me, however inappropriate and seemingly impossible. I work with data, probabilities, predictions, repeatability, and tests.

Many times I end up utterly surprised, because I reached a result that I didn't expect or wished for. I do not change the evidence or result to fit my hypothesis, neither do I force my mind to see something else due to cognitive dissonans.

I do not believe in facts, because there aren't any, only hypothesis and scientific theories, which only live long enough until proven otherwise.

I prefer to talk in tendencies... a ball have a tendency to fall back to earth if I throw it up in open airspace. No laws or fact... a very strong tendency with a probability close to 1.

So in this case I do not know what is causing it... yet! But I see clear tendencies that something has happened. I haven't ruled out any explanation... not even aliens hahaha ;-)

[ghostrider]

Check out Brian Mcfarlands youtube channel, he has a small group of researchers that find residual Effects from the original way people remember and he post the old way and the new way ... They do an open live stream on Fridays to discuss the Mandela effect and new effects are posted there daily ...

[Anchor]

Posted by Iloveyou (here)
My only example would be addidas/adidas. I swear it was addidas. But I cannot vote because I'd say: a little bit true


edit @uzn: yes, that information is on the net NOW.

It was always adidas, because if it were not, the "All Day I Dream About Sex" thing that I learned at school would not have worked ever.

That said, I voted "I'm convinced" because my wife and I tracked down some examples that show we experience it (but in different ways)

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by neutronstar (here)
His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea.

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

[Noelle]

Posted by Rachel (here)

Posted by neutronstar (here)
His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea.

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

Thinking about explanations for the Mandela Effect this morning, and I wondered if we (our individual and collective consciousness), in the present, can change the past.

[wnlight]

I am not convinced, but I do remember "Dolly''s braces". I have not seen that movie recently nor a clip so, has it changed?

Also, C3PO' exterior originally was all gold - no silver leg. But I just looked on Google and found C3PO both ways - some where he is all gold and some with a silver lower right leg. So there! They filmed him both ways and created two sets of memories.

So it's no Woo Woo here. Movies are too easily changed.

[East Sun]

Posted by MythKitty (here)
I have an amazing memory for things of interest to me, things that were emotionally charged (unfortunate for my husband!), and things I've had to memorize and repeat time and again. When I first saw things online that were "wrong", I hadn't heard of the Mandela Effect, I just believed the individual who referenced the item in question wasn't really that familiar with it or didn't know how to spell.

Then I learned of the Mandela Effect and went through lists of changes people had noticed. Some of the changes mentioned contained things that I, too, thought were different than how they currently are, but I didn't have a deep connection to them so I chalked it up to faulty memory. However, there is one thing I am 100% certain of and that is the Lord's Prayer. Having been raised in church, as well as attending a Christian school for four years, I had recited the Lord's Prayer in unison with my peers too many times to count throughout childhood and my teenage years.

I still can't believe how the prayer now reads. I have no words...

Another thing I am 90% sure of, and my husband who collects coins is 100% sure of, is the man depicted on the US dime. There are other MEs I can relate to, but those two things stand out.

You may not know this but there is a difference between the Catholic ending of the Lords prayer and
other versions. For example, in other versions it reads, "For thine is the....." etc.

It's many decades since last I read that so, it may have been changed again.