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Thread: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    Uh....besides huge red flags in the content, funny how the aliens spoke perfect English and even had the same 40's vernacular oddities and colloquialisms. Not sure now if just that part was made up and added at the time or the whole thing is fake.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Taking a close look at it now.
    Yes, this is a fake. I'm 95% sure. it looks good superficially, but the detailed content is way off.

    Edit to add:

    Now 100% sure. I didn't even finish reading it.
    All right, Bill. Where is Richard Doty and what have you done with him?

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    We may be splitting hairs, Harley, but the "ULTRA" classification is a British designation, and not US. The US "MKULTRA" project is quite different. My comment is about the Top Secret markings on the document. A document marked "Ultra top secret" would imply simply that the contents are somehow above TS. While a compartmentalized document is marked "TOP SECRET" followed by the compartment code name such as "MKULTRA". So if there had been a compartment code name "ULTRA" then documents would have been marked "TOP SECRET ULTRA" on the top and bottom of every page. (I have been out of the black world for nearly thirty years and would not mention any of the project code words that I have been read into or stumbled upon.)

    Perhaps this is another reason I will not allow myself to be hypnotized.
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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Michael Salla is spending a bit of time on it :

    http://exopolitics.org/majestic-docu...aterrestrials/

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    if it's a fake then it's probably an ameteur. I don't think a deep black office would make a spelling error, but weirder things have happened). If it's legitimate (higher secrecy than our early nuclear weapons program and outside of any legal oversight) then I'd expect quite a bit of unfamiliar protocols. Either way it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Quote Posted by Callista (here)
    Michael Salla is spending a bit of time on it :

    http://exopolitics.org/majestic-docu...aterrestrials/
    I do have to say, if I may, that I'm staggered that it's not immediately obvious to other researchers that this is a hoax. The content is big reveal here. Read carefully, and it takes just a few minutes to spot the many anomalies.

    I'd be confident that someone with authority out there (Ryan Wood? Friedman? Richard Dolan?) will quickly make a statement. If not, then it's another nail in the coffin of the gullible and malleable current state of ufology. The fakery here really is just so very clear.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Well, that was a waste of my time... but the coffee was good!

    You're right Bill it's a fake. Here's a dead give away. The use of double exclamation mark on an official government document is highly unlikely. But the norm for UFO geeks.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	ts.PNG
Views:	4
Size:	147.3 KB
ID:	35510

    http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/exclaim.asp

    The content is highly suspect as well.
    Last edited by Shadowself; 17th June 2017 at 12:26.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Now I'm really confused. I've both long had my box of serious suspicions about Linda Moulton Howe as playing some role - mostly because like Art Bell she's completely avoided 9-11, but mostly have a hard time disbelieving or distrusting her on everything she does address, which is practically all the other topics in the alternative world. I always feel that she really believes what she says and she often seems brilliant at putting 2 and 2 together and connecting dots in great depth, often scientific, names names and sources, etc.

    I've never heard her more excited out of her mind than this first interview with her about these documents. Linda views them as the corroborative evidence she's been waiting for and can hardly get the words out fast enough at how it connects dots from throughout her investigative history and adds many that make perfect sense to her.

    But she completely ignores the mountains of clearly ludicrous nonsense also in these pages, not even proposing some excuse for it. So now what do we make of both Linda and the content? Worst case scenario, it exposes Linda as a player all along, as if things, people and leads have been 'leaked' all along for her to report on and build a 'trusted' reputation for the controlled opposition to embed their narrative over time... or what?

    In trying to analyze this, I really don't think it's in our best interest to make excuses for any parts of any story that are obviously wrong, lies or really dumb. Looking forward to how anyone else makes sense of it.


    Last edited by waves; 20th June 2017 at 00:39.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    Looking forward to how anyone else makes sense of it.
    Yes, this is mildly interesting (and kind of entertaining), but it's barely important. It'll almost certainly be incontrovertibly debunked by someone with a fairly high profile pretty soon. (If not, there's no hope for the research community!)

    All I can say is that those who've enthusiastically endorsed it (I think also including Michael Salla, for one), will just look a little silly. It's so self-evident that this is faked, I can't even muster up any energy to write to others.

    And if Tom DeLonge were ever to say that his handlers/contacts have confirmed to him it's a genuine leak, then he's busted, too.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    What is the possibility that it is being used to the poison the well? So yes there are obvious mistakes but does that mean all of it is bad? Could it be a case of 90% true 10%, or some ratio, fake so it gets some details wrong so then it can throw everything out while there are real things in there being thrown out to?

    Please dont misconstrue this as an endorsement of this document as I have yet to actually view it because for some reason it wont show(it says things in japanese and I dont understand really just I can read that it cant open the format maybe)

    It would then be useful for sinking anybody that endorses it. Just a thought.

    Who is heather wade? I have never heard of her before.
    Edit now that I have perused it.

    Final question: On the last page, there is a triquetra on a pentagon in a circle.

    has anyone seen this symbol before?

    It looks like an alchemical transmutation circle
    Last edited by 9ofClubs; 20th June 2017 at 07:14.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Michael Salla seems to think this doc is kosher:

    http://exopolitics.org/new-majestic-...o-best-seller/

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Do we really "need" any new evidence to surface revealing something has been going on?

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    I'm curious about he anxiety about being fooled by a hoax. Does a researcher/investigator have their reputation damaged by being fooled? If the implication that they failed in some sort of evaluation procedure? I don't understand why there wouldn't be more grace for colleagues in UFOlogy. Everyone has different blind spots and hoaxers all have different levels of sophistication, just seems like this is why a multitude and diversity of researcher/investigators is beneficial. But the multiplicity and diversity can only be utilized is there is are open and civil lines of communication. I wish instead of cynicism and judgment of those who have been fooled there would instead by empathy and encouragement.

    It seems to me the real crucifixions should be for the hoaxer and those they fooled.

    at the same time... I've often wondered if some real things were presented in a hoaxy style to give a whistleblower an easy exit if they feel like they being surveilled or about to be caught. Also, I've wondered if a person that brought forward a claim or piece of evidence and later confessed that they were hoaxing was either mentally altered or forced to discredit themselves do to threat against them or someone they loved.

    Sometimes I think the only way to know what's really going on is see for myself. It's too bad remote viewing and astral projection aren't less subjective. Courtney Brown and Ed Dames have been wrong in big ways (which brings us back to credibility and reputation), the sad thing is is that they have also been right about some things and the impulse of protecting ourselves from the shame of being wrong prevents us from being able access some things that are right... and profound. it sucks

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    This release may only be the beginning.

    Imagine the chaos if there is suddenly a huge "data dump" of what looks like world changing documents.

    The hints from the David Wilcock Corey Goode camp sound like it's a real probability soon.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    The Black Vault weighs in on the documents:

    Until further information is presented — The Black Vault is labeling this document a HOAX.

    Alleged “NEW” MJ-12 Documents

    http://www.theblackvault.com/casefil...ed-june-2017/#

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Quote Posted by Shadowself (here)
    The Black Vault weighs in on the documents:

    Until further information is presented — The Black Vault is labeling this document a HOAX.

    http://www.theblackvault.com/casefil...ed-june-2017/#
    Quite right, too.

    Their analysis:

    ~~~~~

    Critique

    Issue #1: TOP SECRET MARKING

    “Top Secret” marking on the top of the newly released, “Majestic 12” documents.

    Sadly, there are no documents that appear remotely close to the way these are displayed in the realm of REAL or guaranteed AUTHENTIC. The designation of “TOP SECRET” should be clearly marked on the TOP and BOTTOM of each page, and generally, with highly classified information, there is a codeword that follows “TOP SECRET,” for example, “TOP SECRET UMBRA.” (Please note: The security classification does not always appear on the top and bottom – but in many cases – it will. This isn’t a definite sign of a hoax, but it doesn’t help, in my book.)

    To offer an example, TOP SECRET UMBRA was the designation for the UFO related “COMINT” reports found at the National Security Agency (NSA). Here is an example of one of those TOP SECRET designation stamps:


    NSA “TOP SECRET UMBRA” document, released under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). You will note the classification designation listed on both the top and bottom.


    Issue #2: “CLASSIFIED” Stamps Used to Redact Information

    This is a big red flag in my book, and generally, a no-brainer to show this is a HOAXED document. If a document leaks from “the inside”, one can assume it is in the form that did not go through any declassification process. In this case, since the document is labeled “DO NOT DISSEMINATE OR DECLASSIFY” we can safely assume, that process never took place, or never would have taken place. So, this is, “The Original.” In other words, how the President, and whomever else might have “need to know” access, saw the document.

    The President of the United States, however, would NOT be given a Top Secret briefing document, with information redacted or in this case, stamped out “CLASSIFIED.” This simply, would not happen — especially in the late 1980s when this document was created. Document handling procedures were decades in effect, and this element in the document would not be there.

    Issue #3: Project AQUARIUS?

    If this is truly a hoax, one can see that the hoaxer probably went to the 1990s, grabbed a UFO buzzword like Project Aquarius, and slapped it in this document. Problem is, I researched Project Aquarius many years ago, and it is nothing close to what this MJ-12 document (or the past references to it) allege.

    Here is a screen shot of the official PROJECT AQUARIUS documents I was able to get declassified. The program is about ocean surveillance – not aliens. Why is this important? Because generally, project names are never repeated. So, the likelihood that a TOP SECRET Project Aquarius exists (other than this SECRET one discovered and described below) is pretty nil.

    REAL Project Aquarius Documents



    Issue #4: The Interview


    The interview with the alien just reads too much like fiction, a joke or just a writer trying to input too much politics.

    Could you really imagine an alien saying what (s)he did, the way (s)he did? None of that part, on an intellectual level, makes sense. But beyond that, neither do the “facts.”

    For example:

    “Almost fifty years ago, you sent us signals. You were looking for us, and you scared us with a signal you should not have been capable of sending. So we answered.”

    50 years ago? From where? The interview transcriptions were said to have been taken from interviews conducted April 1948 to March 1949, as done with the Extraterrestrial Biological Entity (EBE) captured at the Aztec, New Mexico UFO crash site on March 25, 1948. So, using that date, this would put humanity sending a signal, attempting to contact aliens, in the late 19th century, circa 1898. This statement alone is wildly inaccurate.

    The strongest signal that had the intent of contacting aliens, was first sent in November of 1974. It was known as the Arecibo Message. It was sent from the Arecibo Observatory, and blasted to a star system that was overhead during the time it was scheduled, specifically, Globular Cluster M13. M13 is 25,000 light years away from Earth, which means, the signal would take approximately 25,000 years to get there (if it got there at all). The return message, would take another 25,000 years. That time frame, obviously does not coincide with this data.

    Carl Sagan’s “Contact” popularized Adolf Hitler as the first “signal” when the 1936 Olympics were broadcast from Berlin, Germany. Some theorized that this strong signal would leak into space, and someone might pick it up. However, that has largely also been debunked, since although the signal strength was strong for the time, it was not strong enough to reach into the Cosmos to any of our galactic neighbors.

    There are many statements by the EBE in the “transcript” that can be dissected, but I think for the reasons outlined above, this is not necessary.

    Issue #5: Formatting

    I believe the date formatting is another issue in this document. The dates, as listed, do not coincide with how documents were written not only at the time, but to this day.

    Here is an example from the document, which claimed to have been prepared in 1989:



    Here is one date format in the document.

    Then a few pages later, in the same briefing document, the date formats differ and have dashes (-) and commas (,) where there shouldn’t be.


    The same “briefing” document has a different date format, once that does not coincide with any style guide used by any federal or military agency.


    Here is an OFFICIAL/AUTHENTIC declassified document, also written in the 1980s, which formerly had the classification SECRET, which shows the standard date formats used by the Defense Intelligence Agency, the same agency that allegedly created these MJ-12 papers.


    In this authentic DIA document, date formats were consistent, had no commas, and were either typed or stamped, as shown.


    I believe this date format also shows the difference between the formatting of a genuine document and these new MJ-12 papers, allegedly written around the same time frame. I chose to display a slightly older document for comparison, to show also that the MJ-12 papers allegedly prepared in 1989, do not coincide with the look of documents created by the same agency, at roughly the same time frame.

    Until further information is presented — The Black Vault is labeling this document a HOAX.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 23rd June 2017 at 22:07.

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    As a Young student I was a typist for a summer, I must have used the last underwiter typewriter in the whole of North America. The hoax document has the same type of typewriting, which I have never seen again in any official or non official document past 1980. Afterwards, electric typrewriter were everywhere and their caracter were like the documents that are not fake, presented here, as proof that the Mj12 document is a fake one.

    So yes, the Mj12 document is a fake one - definitively not 1987.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Shadowself (here)
    The Black Vault weighs in on the documents:

    Until further information is presented — The Black Vault is labeling this document a HOAX.

    http://www.theblackvault.com/casefil...ed-june-2017/#
    Quite right, too.

    Their analysis:

    ~~~~~

    Critique

    Issue #1: TOP SECRET MARKING

    “Top Secret” marking on the top of the newly released, “Majestic 12” documents.

    Sadly, there are no documents that appear remotely close to the way these are displayed in the realm of REAL or guaranteed AUTHENTIC. The designation of “TOP SECRET” should be clearly marked on the TOP and BOTTOM of each page, and generally, with highly classified information, there is a codeword that follows “TOP SECRET,” for example, “TOP SECRET UMBRA.” (Please note: The security classification does not always appear on the top and bottom – but in many cases – it will. This isn’t a definite sign of a hoax, but it doesn’t help, in my book.)

    To offer an example, TOP SECRET UMBRA was the designation for the UFO related “COMINT” reports found at the National Security Agency (NSA). Here is an example of one of those TOP SECRET designation stamps:


    NSA “TOP SECRET UMBRA” document, released under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). You will note the classification designation listed on both the top and bottom.


    Issue #2: “CLASSIFIED” Stamps Used to Redact Information

    This is a big red flag in my book, and generally, a no-brainer to show this is a HOAXED document. If a document leaks from “the inside”, one can assume it is in the form that did not go through any declassification process. In this case, since the document is labeled “DO NOT DISSEMINATE OR DECLASSIFY” we can safely assume, that process never took place, or never would have taken place. So, this is, “The Original.” In other words, how the President, and whomever else might have “need to know” access, saw the document.

    The President of the United States, however, would NOT be given a Top Secret briefing document, with information redacted or in this case, stamped out “CLASSIFIED.” This simply, would not happen — especially in the late 1980s when this document was created. Document handling procedures were decades in effect, and this element in the document would not be there.

    Issue #3: Project AQUARIUS?

    If this is truly a hoax, one can see that the hoaxer probably went to the 1990s, grabbed a UFO buzzword like Project Aquarius, and slapped it in this document. Problem is, I researched Project Aquarius many years ago, and it is nothing close to what this MJ-12 document (or the past references to it) allege.

    Here is a screen shot of the official PROJECT AQUARIUS documents I was able to get declassified. The program is about ocean surveillance – not aliens. Why is this important? Because generally, project names are never repeated. So, the likelihood that a TOP SECRET Project Aquarius exists (other than this SECRET one discovered and described below) is pretty nil.

    REAL Project Aquarius Documents



    Issue #4: The Interview


    The interview with the alien just reads too much like fiction, a joke or just a writer trying to input too much politics.

    Could you really imagine an alien saying what (s)he did, the way (s)he did? None of that part, on an intellectual level, makes sense. But beyond that, neither do the “facts.”

    For example:

    “Almost fifty years ago, you sent us signals. You were looking for us, and you scared us with a signal you should not have been capable of sending. So we answered.”

    50 years ago? From where? The interview transcriptions were said to have been taken from interviews conducted April 1948 to March 1949, as done with the Extraterrestrial Biological Entity (EBE) captured at the Aztec, New Mexico UFO crash site on March 25, 1948. So, using that date, this would put humanity sending a signal, attempting to contact aliens, in the late 19th century, circa 1898. This statement alone is wildly inaccurate.

    The strongest signal that had the intent of contacting aliens, was first sent in November of 1974. It was known as the Arecibo Message. It was sent from the Arecibo Observatory, and blasted to a star system that was overhead during the time it was scheduled, specifically, Globular Cluster M13. M13 is 25,000 light years away from Earth, which means, the signal would take approximately 25,000 years to get there (if it got there at all). The return message, would take another 25,000 years. That time frame, obviously does not coincide with this data.

    Carl Sagan’s “Contact” popularized Adolf Hitler as the first “signal” when the 1936 Olympics were broadcast from Berlin, Germany. Some theorized that this strong signal would leak into space, and someone might pick it up. However, that has largely also been debunked, since although the signal strength was strong for the time, it was not strong enough to reach into the Cosmos to any of our galactic neighbors.

    There are many statements by the EBE in the “transcript” that can be dissected, but I think for the reasons outlined above, this is not necessary.

    Issue #5: Formatting

    I believe the date formatting is another issue in this document. The dates, as listed, do not coincide with how documents were written not only at the time, but to this day.

    Here is an example from the document, which claimed to have been prepared in 1989:



    Here is one date format in the document.

    Then a few pages later, in the same briefing document, the date formats differ and have dashes (-) and commas (,) where there shouldn’t be.


    The same “briefing” document has a different date format, once that does not coincide with any style guide used by any federal or military agency.


    Here is an OFFICIAL/AUTHENTIC declassified document, also written in the 1980s, which formerly had the classification SECRET, which shows the standard date formats used by the Defense Intelligence Agency, the same agency that allegedly created these MJ-12 papers.


    In this authentic DIA document, date formats were consistent, had no commas, and were either typed or stamped, as shown.


    I believe this date format also shows the difference between the formatting of a genuine document and these new MJ-12 papers, allegedly written around the same time frame. I chose to display a slightly older document for comparison, to show also that the MJ-12 papers allegedly prepared in 1989, do not coincide with the look of documents created by the same agency, at roughly the same time frame.

    Until further information is presented — The Black Vault is labeling this document a HOAX.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: Classified: Ultra Top Secret (New Hoaxed 'MJ-12 document')

    Flash, you are officially a whistleblower!
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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