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Thread: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

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    Japan Avalon Member bbow73's Avatar
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    Default Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    I've been exposed to a lot of amazing things from this forum. I've also been exposed to some questionable things.

    Thanks to this forum I found Dark Journalist, Linda Moulton Howe, & Jim Marrs.
    These whistleblowers have a great emphasis on detail that I value. Then there are some people that have stories with major implications about our history/origin and current status in an interstellar community. That's okay. But then there are these spiritual gurus that claim to be absolute authorities on the real truth. When did this become the two ends of the spectrum?

    I believe a lot of crazy things and I don't measure credibility by how shockingly far a story may deviate from our perception of reality, but I do question and I do concern myself with integrity. Maybe it's because I grew up in an age of tele-evangelists making millions off of snake oil. These were masters of bias, assumption and anecdote.

    For example, we hear language like "the situation with..." "what's going on with..." red flags go up and I think either this person has no idea or wants us to fill in the blanks with our own bias'.

    Youtube Gurus are consistently making claims (usually about the nature of reality and/or the human spirit) with a blast of appealing assumptions spoken as fact. My biggest problem with this is are the assumptions that reflect an ignorance of very basic (non-controversial) information. I get that we are in weird territory when the moon is hollow, weather is regulated, and the human timeline is off by 100,000 years, what I mean is the reckless simplification (what I see as prejudice) of people groups and the phenomenology of culture.

    And finally, anecdotes. If we are filling in the mystery of our existence with anecdotes then they must from a person with some sort of credentials or expertise that are put at risk for sharing their anecdote. The anecdote also needs to have names, places and dates as well as at least a second testimony to corroborate some part of the story. Otherwise it must be put on the shelf as merely an interesting possibility.

    Am I alone in thinking about this stuff?
    Where are we supposed to draw the line?

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    England Avalon Member Spiral's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    A lot of it is about discernment, there is a lot out there !

    I started with Richard D hall, not where everyone starts, but he still rests as a genuine researcher, his site has a huge reference file at the bottom of the home page http://www.richplanet.net/

    Never met him & so on, but he has never pushed bs, mainly because he never goes near the spiritual side of things.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member wnlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Without any physical evidence, I will continue to present warnings of what I see as coming events. But I do write that my sources are spiritual, and I have no evidence. I also write that if you desire physical evidence, just wait a couple more years and you will have plenty. I do believe that there is room for both the whistleblowers and the spirituals. BTW, I am not a spiritual GURU - simply connected to Spirit.

    Let me give you an example. From my meditations fifteen years ago I knew that Global Warming was a fake when nearly everyone was claiming a coming disaster of runaway heating. But now most climate scientists agree that the climate change will be of extreme cold. The only debate among them is when the ice age will come, and for how long will it last.
    - Warren Light

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    Japan Avalon Member bbow73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    A lot of it is about discernment, there is a lot out there !

    I started with Richard D hall, not where everyone starts, but he still rests as a genuine researcher, his site has a huge reference file at the bottom of the home page http://www.richplanet.net/

    Never met him & so on, but he has never pushed bs, mainly because he never goes near the spiritual side of things.
    holy crap, he has a ton of stuff on that site. thank you, can't wait to dig in.

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    Japan Avalon Member bbow73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Quote Posted by wnlight (here)
    Without any physical evidence, I will continue to present warnings of what I see as coming events. But I do write that my sources are spiritual, and I have no evidence. I also write that if you desire physical evidence, just wait a couple more years and you will have plenty. I do believe that there is room for both the whistleblowers and the spirituals. BTW, I am not a spiritual GURU - simply connected to Spirit.

    Let me give you an example. From my meditations fifteen years ago I knew that Global Warming was a fake when nearly everyone was claiming a coming disaster of runaway heating. But now most climate scientists agree that the climate change will be of extreme cold. The only debate among them is when the ice age will come, and for how long will it last.
    I walked away from one religion and found myself in another one called UFOlogy. There are esoteric ideas about our origin, destiny and purpose and some of the things people say... most of if can only be taken on faith if you choose to believe it. At least here you are allowed to question things without reprimand. I don't know you and I'm sure your a nice guy, my skepticism is definitely not about anyone one person but rather a certain type of profile. I don't have any issue with people having a prophetic gift or being especially intuitive. I just think that people can sincerely believe something and be sincerely wrong... but still make a lot of money and get a lot of recognition. Its great to share our experiences in a way that can help others but when a person is wrong about basic things their credibility as an authority is diminished. And that sucks because I want to believe in people but there is no reason that extra sensory perceptions can't be as flawed or fooled as our mundane perceptions. In my old religion there were academics and charismatics and each end of the spectrum was equally susceptible to the confirmation bias of their mental filters. You sound pretty humble and honest and that's cool, I just get kinda cranky when I see a guru that acts like he's Gaia's gift to man but only has a pet philosophy that kinda makes casual sense as long as you don't scrutinize anything.

    full disclosure: I find the SSP narrative SUPER compelling. It's the total package, it's got space Nazis! But I don't want to get married to it after only dating for a couple months. I'd like to have a more intimate understanding before committing to anything. I also love the idea of spiritual evolution but, same deal.

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    United States Avalon Member Foxie Loxie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Hope you enjoy your journey as much as I have enjoyed mine on Avalon, bbow73!! I have learned SO MUCH. I would say no one is asking you to join anything, but to simply keep exploring....that's the secret!

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    Spain Avalon Member betoobig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    hahahahahahahaha...
    ...there is no line but vibrations.
    Much love

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    ,,,but do not listen to me
    honoring White Feather: SHIFT HAPPENED

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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Quote Posted by betoobig (here)
    hahahahahahahaha...
    ...there is no line but vibrations.
    Much love

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    ,,,but do not listen to me
    I just heard this Taijiquan guy say that the line between the yin and the yang is the connection between the mind and the body, emotion/nervous system. Interesting to think about our emotions being a way for the body to communicate with the mind

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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    bbow73 said:

    "I've been exposed to a lot of amazing things from this forum. I've also been exposed to some questionable things.

    .................................................. ..................................................

    Am I alone in thinking about this stuff?
    Where are we supposed to draw the line? "


    No, you are far from alone in thinking about this stuff. And because you reached out to someone else who recognized your 'questing', you apparently were invited to join this large group of like-minded people. Look around you here a little every day and you will read many other people also asking crucial questions.

    May I make a guess that you are fairly young, say under 40 years of age? In today's world which is fortunately blessed with access to the Internet, questing is no longer a tedious chore that can be very costly. Instead we now have access to practically every source available for information from all professions and all walks of life. A recent stint in the hospital created some very curious exchanges between me and the nurses. They were literally blown away with the extent of my knowledge about the medical conditions I'm battling. That is until I told them that professional publications and manuals previously only available to medical professionals (like the Merck Manual and the PDR [Physicians Desk Reference]) were now available online in layman's versions.

    Questing is not limited to a leisurely or even a professional pursuit any longer. In the demanding and greatly challenging real world we live in, I've come to view it as a Rite of Passage. More than a rite, it is a responsibility. As young people come of age and become adults they used to have the luxury of just falling into one of life's ruts or paving their own roads. Now it encompasses far far more demanding crud out of us. Our complex world, societies, cultures, and economies are exploding exponentially with the vast millions of other human beings joining the flow of life and competing for as prime a spot or position or status as we can quickly achieve or accomplish.

    Yet maturing quickly has become a muddled process due to the quite powerful forces demanding our time, energy, and money. Protest! Vote! Fight! Join! Gimmee! Gimmee! It's no wonder people's heads are nearly exploding. And yet that transition also becomes muddled after years of schooling now intently and narrowly focused on producing obedient and maleable and compliant, and yes even dependent, citizens too weak mentally to question, let alone challenge, authority. So so many young products of such mental manipulations actually give up at that very moment when that mysterious voice whispers those life altering wonderments in their mind: "I wonder what's out there they haven't told me about?" "Why am I here?" "Why was I born?" "Who is God, really?"

    And suddenly the road of your life turns a corner and splits, one new road traversing way way off into the distance so far that you cannot possibly see where it would take you. And the other road while in shorter stretches, pretty much looks like the same road you've been walking on, with little benches along the way to rest on and perhaps a familiar friend to chat with. Once you start down that other long unmarked road, there's no going back to that boring trek along the old road as new revelations expand your mind with new concepts, new perspectives, new realizations, new understandings!

    The Questing Path, once chosen, is a lifetime passionate commitment. And it carries a great responsibility in that once you start discovering and uncovering the answers you seek, you can never again claim ignorance or naivety as an excuse for your screwups in life. And beware, for sure, because for every single answer you find for a previous question you had, two or three new questions will invariably be uncovered along with the answer. And off you will go again in search of additional answers!

    And all of that, new quester was to provide the foundation for my response to the title/question you asked which started this thread:

    "Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers"

    Which I will post separately as your complex post asked so many questions I had fun just segregating them in order to address them with some sense of relation and clarity.

    Off to rest, then hopefully compose a meaningful response to your most important question of all.

    Oh, and since you're where you are, I thought I'd share with you a link in the event you were in need of a solid and reputable source for current news and events analysis: The Corbett Report.

    Kitt

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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    bbow73 asked:

    "Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers"

    Hooboy, this is a tough one for me as I quite recently unearthed what I believed to be a case of fraud in the spiritual realm. Some solid evidence was tossed by me before knowing it even mattered or that I had tripped onto the possible fraud. Naturally, there is nothing that can be done without that now lost solid evidence, nor should I ever share the details with anyone else now. Yet the experience provided me with perspectives I can share with you which might offer some assistance and insight in your personal quest.

    The line between spiritual gurus and whistleblowers is almost always visible and distinct. The best way to start, actually, is go to the dictionary for their accepted definitions, which are quite different. With those images clearly defined in your mind, or better yet written down, choose your first subject, old or new, and see if you have found enough info about them to define them as belonging under one heading or the other.

    Yes, it can be tedious and often time consuming, but after a few actual cases have been processed you should be able to identify distinct characteristics defining each category. Afterward, each one you investigate will become so very much easier to recognize and add to your lists because of the growing cutting-edge researchers' tools you've developed and added to your Questing Toolbox. And I strongly suspect that you will also be picking up tips and suggestions from some pros right here in Avalon Forum. In no time you will become so proficient a Quester that you will be spreading out your field of interest to include things in life that you once felt too inadequate or ill-informed about to consider, let alone understand or maybe even challenge.

    What do you think? Shall we create our own group called "Questers Unlimited", for people dedicated to unlimited questing?!

    And so by creating your own questing toolbox, personally fashioned through time and effort, you are aiding in the creation of the most important tool of all: Intellectual Integrity. No matter who you meet over time, or where you go, or what you share with others, or even publish, intellectual integrity should always be part of the solid foundation from which you operate.

    Next is Intellectual Objectivity. This is a hard one, because so much a part of communications today seem to include emotional triggers which prevent people from reading, viewing, and/or participating in activities or pursuits with a calmly detached and rational mindset. The ruse of marketing is in crafting the language using hip vernacular, mostly, to ping as many emotional buttons as possible. With enough buttons pushed, the mark is fully emotionally engaged, and internally squirming in discomfort, seeking a way to feel better again. A lot of people at that point are hardly singularly rational and calm enough to realize that all they have to do is walk away, or say "no thanks".

    And so the objectivity challenge for you then will be to create an intellectual alarm clock mechanism, some word or phrase that you can utilize as you are reading or viewing which will set off an alarm in your mind to warn you that the material or speaker's data or whatever is sounding like mumbo-jumbo claptrap, or mind-numbing word salads. When the alarm -does- go off in your head, then step back and clear your mind.

    If in a group where participation is required, when your turn comes to answer a question, just say Foxtrot. Huh? Um....foxtrot. At this point the host is beginning to get nervous because your off-the-wall response has broken everyone's hypnotic focus. Now focus, they'll say and give you the question again. Oh, I know, you'll say, ..... Rocky Mountain Oysters! And all the other participants who were hoping you would toss out another wild comment will bust up laughing. A the hoax/host will be zinging visual daggers at you for breaking everyone's concentration and destroying his/her tried and true method of scamming a paying audience any further.

    After that RL experience I elected 'prairie oysters' as my objectivity alarm. Whether in real life of when viewing a video, or even during a phone call, have a ridiculous trigger alarm is the perfect way to break the manipulative emotional reaction to a scammer's or hoaxer's ploys.

    Which sadly brings me to one of the latest and most callous ploys being utilized to scam the UFOlogy Community: Creating an outrageous scenario with a believable and sympathetic victim who has suffered and sacrificed much in order to carry the message to all other caring and concerned earthlings......

    It is one of the coldest, most devious and calculating scams ever. And I'm 99% sure why, but OT here, so that's for another thread.

    Back to objectivity techniques, by training yourself in the very cool art of stepping back tools, you will be able to keep a clear head and avoid being sucked into incredibly crafty scamming games. (And whoa, the scammers have discovered the Internet bigtime.) And as you pursue your questing you will discover as well what a relief it is not to have to carry around the emotional baggage the manipulators and controllers and scammers try to pile on us each and every moment of our days.

    Well, bbow73, I hope that in offering suggestions and perspectives for building your questing tools that you will see how necessary it is to be able to see clearly and objectively enough to distinguish that line when it becomes apparent.

    Safe questing, my friend.

    Kitt

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    Spain Avalon Member betoobig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the line between Spiritual Gurus & Whistleblowers

    Quote Posted by bbow73 (here)
    Quote Posted by betoobig (here)
    hahahahahahahaha...
    ...there is no line but vibrations.
    Much love

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    ,,,but do not listen to me
    I just heard this Taijiquan guy say that the line between the yin and the yang is the connection between the mind and the body, emotion/nervous system. Interesting to think about our emotions being a way for the body to communicate with the mind
    not only that, emotions are what your inner being uses to show you the way, allways go where feels good. When i doesn´t feel good is your inner being saying "not that way, come this way"...
    Much love
    honoring White Feather: SHIFT HAPPENED

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