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Thread: Theory of how to use Electricity

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    Default Theory of how to use Electricity

    I've been researching energy and electricity for over 25 years, and it is my belief that we do not understand how to use electricity properly. This specifically applies to the energy contained in a common DC battery, but is applicable to ALL electricity.

    Here is a specific, simple experiment, that anyone can do to see whether or not I am full of crap. Collect two 33000UF 50 volt capacitors and a grain of wheat bulb. Using batteries in series or a power supply, CAREFULLY charge one of the capacitors to 25 volts. Connect the second capacitor in parallel to the first. You will see that the two capacitors equalize in voltage. That is because electricity is like water. It wants to move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration when it can, and equalize. Now, connect the grain of wheat bulb to one of the capacitors, and carefully time how long the light remained lit. It should be approximately 13 seconds. Now connect it to the other capacitor and time how long it stays lit. It should be approximately 13 seconds. You were able to light the bulb for 26 seconds TOTAL using the 25 volts you put in the capacitor.

    Now, make sure both capacitors are completely empty by shorting them out. Charge one of the capacitors to 25 volts again. Connect the negatives of the two capacitors together. Now CAREFULLY connect the two positives of the capacitors together using the grain of wheat bulb. Time how long the light is on. You will notice that the light is MUCH BRIGHTER than when just connected to one of the capacitors in the previous test. (Because you are running it on 25 volts instead of 12) When the light stops glowing, measure the voltage in each capacitor. You will see that the 25 volts is still ALL THERE, just evenly distributed between the two capacitors at 12.5 volts each. So ask yourself the IMPORTANT question right now. If the 25 volts is still there, what was used to light the light?

    Now, connect the light to one of the capacitors and it will STILL take 13 seconds to use up all the energy in the capacitor. Connect to the second capacitor and it will still take 13 seconds to use up all the energy in the second capacitor. In this experiment you ran the same light off the same amount of energy, and when you total up the three times you ran electricity through the bulb, did it total to more than the 26 seconds in the first experiment? I'll bet money it DID. I will also bet that during the run between the positives the light was MUCH brighter. MUCH.

    Where did the extra energy come from? Is this free energy??? NO! NO! NO! We are simply USING the available energy in a different way. OK? Because NOW we are looking at the way we SHOULD have been using it all along. So here comes my theory. Most electrical devices DO NOT USE UP THE ELECTRICITY PUT INTO THEM WHEN PROPERLY CONNECTED. Think about that for a moment and what it means if I am correct.

    Focus for a moment on a standard DC battery, and understand the following is an illustration. I DO know that the voltage reading on a 12 volt battery is much higher than "0" when the battery is useless. But bare with me for a few moments longer. Here is what I believe "really" happens when you connect a load to that battery. It is an unbalanced system. There are more charges on one side of the battery than on the other, and when you measure the voltage in the battery, you are measuring the difference between one side of the battery and the other. When a load is connected, it gives a path for the energy to move from one side of the battery to the other THROUGH THE LOAD, WHICH BASICALLY RUNS FOR FREE until the battery is "balanced". At which point our meter reads "zero" voltage because there is no difference between the two sides, and the battery is "discharged" and needs to be charged back up. If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, does that make any sense? Only if you believe all the energy in the battery was converted to heat by lighting the light bulb. And THAT is a JOKE!

    SO how do we use the energy in a battery without balancing out the two sides of the battery? It's pretty simple, and I have spent a lot of years working on the BEST way to do it. One of the coolest is a slight modification to an existing solar system which allows you to run many, MANY times longer on the same batteries, and double your load at the same time.

    I am not selling anything. Nothing. I have tried for 10 years to make this information available to people who are interested. I'm here to share, but ONLY with people who will take the time to do the simple experiment I have suggested and then will LISTEN and follow directions. Sorry to be a jerk, but I have had my fill of people who won't do the experiments telling me that what I have working on my bench doesn't work. Especially when there are two houses running on this system right now.
    Last edited by Turion; 17th June 2017 at 06:23.

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    Canada Avalon Member sandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Hope you get some takerss Turion......especially those who are running some solar panel systems. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience
    Love and Light Always/Sandy

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    United States Administrator Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    I believe you're confusing voltage and energy. One speaks of "using up" the stored energy in a battery, not of using up its voltage.
    • Electrical energy is the product of power times time, as in kilowatt hours (kwh).
    • Electrical power in turn is the product of current and voltage, as in amps times volts.
    Since electricity usually seems rather "magical" to many readers, let me give an equivalent example using water.

    Your experiment with the two capacitors and small bulb could just as well be done with two pails of water with faucets in their bottom, a water wheel, and some water hose.

    For the first experiment of yours, fill one pail to a depth of 25 inches (equivalent to your 25 volts, then connect the two pails, at the same level, with the hose, and open the faucets, allowing the water to equalize in the two pails to a depth of 12.5 inches. Then turn off the two faucets, disconnect the pails, and one pail at a time, drain the water out the bottom faucet over the water wheel.

    For the second experiment of yours, do the same as the first experiment, but also find some way (that doesn't leak too much) to insert the water wheel into the hose, between the two buckets, so that it can spin using the water that flows from the first bucket to the second, during the stage when the 25 inches of water in the first bucket is allowed to equalize down to 12.5 inches in both buckets. Then continue as in the first experiment, draining what is now 12.5 inches of water in each bucket over the water wheel.

    The second experiment will end up spinning the water wheel for an extra period of time, while the 25 inches of water in one pail is equalizing to 12.5 inches in both pails. Both experiments will then spin the water wheel while each pail is being drained from 12.5 inches to empty.

    If you've spent 10 years trying to convince people that this is some thing special ... that was a poor use of your time.

    I would discourage your wasting nearly as much of our time here.
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    It's nice to read of someone who actually understands a bit about the technical stuff that makes the world work, but I agree with Paul, I think you have some misconceptions with power, voltage and 'energy'.

    Unfortunately it's vanishingly unlikely that after 150 years of electrical engineering carried out and developed by thousands of engineers, that you've stumbled upon something missed by everyone - not impossible but...

    Consider this; measure the voltage at all of your power sockets, (120 VAC in the US, 230 VAC in Europe). Measure it with an appliance plugged in and working and measure it with the appliance switched off. (There may be a very slight voltage drop with the appliance switched on, but there really shouldn't be unless it's a 3kW toaster and you're at the end of a very long power line!)

    Now, measure the current flowing in the live and the current flowing in the neutral power leads going to your home. (I really, REALLY don't advise you actually attempt this as you almost certainly won't have the equipment to do it.) The point is that the current 'entering' your home will be exactly the same as that 'leaving' it, although it will vary depending on what appliances you have switched on.

    So... what's going on? The voltage across every appliance is constant. The current entering and leaving the home is always the same. Is there some huge multi-billion dollar/pound/euro conspiracy I have just exposed?

    Incidentally, the answer the my rhetorical experiment will explain why your assertion that energy from the battery being converted to heat by lighting the light bulb is a not a 'joke'.
    Last edited by Nick Matkin; 17th June 2017 at 10:39. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Paul,
    Charged batteries contain a specific amount of electrical energy or amp hours. That energy is used to do work, measured, as you said, in volts times amps or watts. A watt is one joule per second. If my circuit is such a "waste of time" please share with me one circuit in a home that uses that specific concept to use the same electrical energy more than once. I would be interested to hear about that. The difference between what I am working with and the example you gave of the bucket is that once the water has drained out of the buckets, YOU have to find a way to fill them again in order to do any more work. My example was simply to show that we WASTE the potential of a given quantity of "energy" because of the way we use it, and that a simple change gives you 30% (or more) work from the exact same energy. That was just an example. It is NOT the way my system is set up. Either what I showed is correct or it is incorrect. Don't judge the VALUE of what I shared quite yet. First let's establish whether or not I am telling the TRUTH. My "buckets", when the circuits are properly built, remain full, circulating the energy through the load over and over, and I can do "work" over and over and over again, exceeding what was "available" (according to current practices in electricity) by many times.

    This isn't theory. I modified the solar system at my dad's home to do exactly as I have stated, and I have a close friend who has done the same thing at his place. This is not perpetual motion. There are losses in any system, and eventually the batteries run down and need to be recharged by the solar panels. They KEY to what I am doing is using one set of batteries to circulate energy and run loads while the other set of batteries is being charged by the solar system. In this manner, I can extend both the run time available from a given set of batteries and increase the size of the loads they support. When the sky is overcast, I can still circulate energy to power loads and the system runs far longer than it did originally for the exact same input from the solar panels. To use your flowing water analogy...If you have a moving river and are turning a single water wheel, don't sneer at the guy who has figured out how to get five water wheels turning for the exact same cost.



    You are completely entitled to your belief that this is a waste of time. I notice, however, that you did not disagree with anything I said. Nor did you bother to do the experiment. It is my experience that most naysayers do not do the experiments I have done, or do not do them correctly. Those that DO get the exact same results I get. If at any time I make a statement that is not true, I hope someone will call me on it. I make mistakes, and I am the first to admit that. But I have invested a lot of time, energy, and money into this research, and I have working systems as a result. I did not come here to be called a "waste of time" and if that is the attitude of folks here, I see no reason to stick around and share. Which is probably exactly what you want.
    Last edited by Turion; 17th June 2017 at 09:18.

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    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Here is someone who knows about Electricity and how we don't use it properly.
    Eric Dollard - History and Theory of Electricity
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    You have to loop it for continuous generation to a generator. So when the battery goes down the alternator charges it enough to start up and reignite current back in the loop in a continuous power generation. Don't know how I know that one, but it just came to me after watching some videos on looping in EU on youtube.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    @Turion

    Please present a circuit diagram of what you claim to have done, with voltage and current measurements at the appropriate places.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Quote Posted by Turion (here)
    Charged batteries contain a specific amount of electrical energy or amp hours.
    Amp hours are NOT a unit of energy. They are a unit of charge. It depends on what voltage drop they flow over how much energy can be transferred.

    I didn't do your experiment because I agreed that your experiment would work, and moreover I provided an analogous experiment using buckets of water, that should also work. In both experiments, there are three opportunities to extract a little work, to light a bulb or spin a wheel: (1) as the charge, or water, equalizes from 25 volts or inches in one container, to 12.5 units in both containers, (2) as the first container drains from 12.5 to 0.0, and (3) as the second container also drains from 12.5 to 0. Obviously, if you choose to take advantage of all three opportunities, then you can get more work done than if you only choose to take advantage of just two of them.

    Neither your electrical experiment nor my water experiment accomplish anything magical, unusual, or special.

    I disagreed that your experiment shows anything magical. Your statement that I "did not disagree with anything" you said is thus (for that and other reasons) an incorrect statement, thus I now disagree with that statement as well.

    Sometimes people disagree with you because they're just being negative, and sometimes they disagree because you're wrong. I conclude that the second alternative applies here, and since you've been at this for a decade, I suspect that you know you're wrong and that you're deliberately throwing up confusion to obfuscate the many legitimate efforts to rewrite the deeply flawed physics (relativity and quantum mechanics) of the last century, which efforts intend to develop a physics able to provide a sound basis for engineering far more advanced energy production and transportation (so called "over-unity" or "free" energy, as well as anti-gravity and dramatically faster than light transportation.)

    If, on the other hand, after ten years of this, you really don't yet realize how confused and incorrect your analysis is ... then please offer my condolences to your friends, family and colleagues.
    Last edited by Paul; 17th June 2017 at 16:38.
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    With the possibility of ending up with egg on my face, I will wade into this discussion. Rechargeable batteries act differently than capacitors. The battery stores energy via a chemical activity which concurrently produces heat. Then, the battery will provide energy to a load via a closed circuit as a flow of electrons. This process also produces heat. During the battery discharge the battery is also an (internal) load and shares the energy. (That is why a shorted battery can get so hot it may explode.) Doing your original experiment with batteries substituted for capacitors cannot produce the same results. I suspect that in the capacitor experiment that you could actually calculate the number of electrons flowing in each phase of the experiment. (This would be very similar to Paul's water analogy.)

    BTW, Going back the the second phase of your capacitor experiment, you might notice that the voltage is NOT constant during the time that the first capacitor is charging the second capacitor. The voltage between the two capacitors will drop in a non-linear way. But the glow in the your grain of wheat bulb will lag the voltage change and hide this fact. You will have to watch the voltage on a scope. I will admit that I did not conduct your experiment because I do not have the equipment at hand and do not know where to purchase it here in Cuenca. I assert that I have played with and used capacitors many times back in the 1960s and 1970s. Again, the challenge of capturing the shape and magnitude of a single peak and drop of voltage using a scope is something I did with others many times at the Nuclear Test Site in Nevada.

    If you can actually double the load from a solar panel with your non-conventional approach to using electricity, please post your schematics and procedures and measurement results here. You will get a fair review here.
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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Thank you wnlight. The OP simply doesn't understand this subject - even after years of his proclaimed study. He needs to check out time constants, Q=CV and a whole lot of other stuff...

    I don't want to discourage a new member, but if he thinks he's stumbled upon information that has been overlooked by generations of engineers, or 'suppressed' by some sinister cabal, then perhaps he should post his 'findings' on less critical forums.
    Last edited by Nick Matkin; 17th June 2017 at 19:39.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Turion,

    I suggest you provide photo or video evidence of what you are claiming. Many times when making claims, words simply fail to convince many people. So rather than argue about it more, show us what you have done and then we can discuss it. You said you have working systems, so show them to us. I also think you should do as Nick Matkin suggests and provide the appropriate electrical data to support your claims.

    Also, you seemed to be on the defensive like this community is hiding some secret knowledge that you are dangerously close to revealing. We want you to participate but we also require evidence. Although Paul might seem like he is antagonizing you, I do not think that is his intention(correct me If I am wrong here Paul). I think he wants to apply a skeptical approach to claims and make sure all bases are covered.

    If you did happen to find something special, we would want to make sure nothing currently known can explain it away. Dont see the challenges to your ideas as an attack on you. You are not your ideas, they simply pass through you.
    Last edited by Praxis; 17th June 2017 at 23:58.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Over unity patents are piled sky high by all reports. The oil industry simply will not let them happen.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    I have no interest in wasting my time arguing. One thing I do know. The lights at my partner's house are still on, and so are mine. Your OPINION cannot change that FACT. I am sure we will all go home tonight smug in the knowledge that "we were right." The question is, who benefitted from that?

    If your goal was to run me off, you have succeeded. If your goal was to convince me I am wrong? LOL. Not going to happen. Once you have ridden in a plane it is pretty tough to be convinced that man cannot fly.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Quote Posted by Turion (here)
    I have no interest in wasting my time arguing. One thing I do know. The lights at my partner's house are still on, and so are mine. Your OPINION cannot change that FACT. I am sure we will all go home tonight smug in the knowledge that "we were right." The question is, who benefitted from that?

    If your goal was to run me off, you have succeeded. If your goal was to convince me I am wrong? LOL. Not going to happen. Once you have ridden in a plane it is pretty tough to be convinced that man cannot fly.
    Please, just show us what you have done. Fantastic claims are ten a penny, but actual evidence? As common as hens' teeth and rocking-horse sh*t.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Well how not to use electricity I found out when I was little and I had an electric shock, that tell me how not to use it.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    @Turion As you are now aware, your experiments do not satisfy the electrical characteristic behaviour. The contempt and scorn during re-educating you is quite palpable.

    Anyway, just a heads up here. To resolve what your experiments are showing you, you must use magnetic principles. Your resolution is there.

    If you don't know how, then I feel rewarded in preparing you for another ten years researching.

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Tesla ?.....is that you?
    ONLY THE END OF THE WORLD IS THE END OF THE WORLD AND THIS AIN'T IT

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    Quote Posted by Turion (here)
    ...
    Now, make sure both capacitors are completely empty by shorting them out. Charge one of the capacitors to 25 volts again. Connect the negatives of the two capacitors together. Now CAREFULLY connect the two positives of the capacitors together using the grain of wheat bulb. Time how long the light is on. You will notice that the light is MUCH BRIGHTER than when just connected to one of the capacitors in the previous test. (Because you are running it on 25 volts instead of 12) When the light stops glowing, measure the voltage in each capacitor. You will see that the 25 volts is still ALL THERE, just evenly distributed between the two capacitors at 12.5 volts each. So ask yourself the IMPORTANT question right now. If the 25 volts is still there, what was used to light the light?

    ....
    Turion, that does not make sense.
    You are saying to connect an incandescent bulb in series to two positive polarities on the capacitors.
    If connected as you suggest, there is no difference in potential and as such, no electrons will flow and the bulb will not light up.
    Please show a video of you doing this, clearly indicating the negative and positive connections on the capacitors.
    Otherwise, all of your posts (and points) are useless.
    One out of 10000 people here may even remotely consider running out, buying capacitors, a wheat bulb (I had to google what a wheat bulb was, it is an incandescent lamp in case anyone else was wondering), power supplies, a volt meter and wires to connect it all up.
    Pictures or videos are worth a thousand words, a schematic would be quite helpful as well (as requested by others).
    Thank you for considering my suggestions...

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    Default Re: Theory of how to use Electricity

    I think he's describing charging a discharged capacitor with a charged one via a small light bulb.

    Anyone familiar with basic electronics would say, "Yes, but so what?" All you have done is equalised the charge in two capacitors.

    (I note that no one has challenged by exposure of a global conspiracy in post #4.)

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