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Thread: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

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    Japan Avalon Member bbow73's Avatar
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    Default Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    My brother-in-law works for Orbital, they do regular launches from Wallops air field here in Virginia. Recently they've been launching rockets to release a payload of trimethylaluminum into the atmophere. This is very bad if you breath it.
    Side note, there was a marine biologist working out of Wallops that was studying the dying of the local phytoplankton with high levels of trimethylaluminum... but unfortunately she accidentally suicided after drinking a jug of anti-freeze behind a Food Lion.

    The explanation for the launches was that this would help test for gaps in digital communication signals. Well... I'm sure thats true but it is also an environmental hazard. The EPA said that no one is releasing harmful chemicals into our atmosphere.... WTF?

    NASA said that trimethylaluminum is harmless and occurs naturally in nature... this is not true.

    I was going write some letters to the EPA just about some facts about chemtrails but now I'm wondering what good it would do. Who is the EPA accountable to?

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Quote Posted by bbow73 (here)
    My brother-in-law works for Orbital, they do regular launches from Wallops air field here in Virginia. Recently they've been launching rockets to release a payload of trimethylaluminum into the atmophere. This is very bad if you breath it.
    Side note, there was a marine biologist working out of Wallops that was studying the dying of the local phytoplankton with high levels of trimethylaluminum... but unfortunately she accidentally suicided after drinking a jug of anti-freeze behind a Food Lion.

    The explanation for the launches was that this would help test for gaps in digital communication signals. Well... I'm sure thats true but it is also an environmental hazard. The EPA said that no one is releasing harmful chemicals into our atmosphere.... WTF?

    NASA said that trimethylaluminum is harmless and occurs naturally in nature... this is not true.

    I was going write some letters to the EPA just about some facts about chemtrails but now I'm wondering what good it would do. Who is the EPA accountable to?
    Very sad news.

    On the other hand,here in Romania,while we are hard sprayed,the authorities are fighting against hail storms created by chemtrails clouds with hail guns,but they didn't know how that clouds are formed.The hail rockets are totally inefficient against these new hail stones and clouds.
    Here is the most recent news from 14 July 2017.Use Google translate for the second paragraph.
    http://adevarul.ro/locale/focsani/vr...fb3/index.html



    And Romanian manufacturer of hail rockets and launching ramps.


    Some more images:



    "Your planet is forbidden for an open visit - extremely aggressive social environment,despite almost perfect climatic conditions.Almost 4 billion violent deaths for the last 5000 years and about 15000 major military conflicts in the same period."

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Thanks for that - But I can't help laughing at the "Run away, Run away" antics of the scientists conducting the experiments in the second to last picture !

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    I just listened to Matt Landman on The Higherside Chat... it was eye opening but also very frustrating. Part of the podcast was dedicated to the social stigmatism that helps guard the mainstream narrative. The social conditioning is brilliant... elegant... sophisticated... and completely sinister.

    there is a magnificent body of evidence in terms of a paper trail in the form of patents & gov studies as well as a linear path if you decided to 'follow the money'.

    How the hell does Wikipedia filter out these contributions to the conversation?
    Last edited by bbow73; 18th July 2017 at 14:13.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Here's a starter from Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylaluminium
    Under Synthesis and applications:
    . . . In combination with Cp2ZrCl2 (zirconocene dichloride), the (CH3)2Al-CH3 adds "across" alkynes to give vinyl aluminum species that are useful in organic synthesis in a reaction known as carboalumination.[7]

    The NASA ATREX mission (Anomalous Transport Rocket Experiment) employed the white smoke that TMA forms on air contact to study the high altitude jet stream . . .

    Which I interpret as "Monitoring and measuring the rotating magnetic fields by the infusion of artificial organic atmosphere". Probably to enhance the performance of space based satellites monitoring we the people. Worldwide. But this is my first "hit" statement based on the info shown. I have no knowledge of these processes other than this thread.

    Herewith Dimer and Organic Chemistry that might be of interest to some of you:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimer_%28chemistry%29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_synthesis

    Feel free to elaborate more.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    I am curious why there is an assumption alluded to in the OP that TMA (tri-methyl-aluminum) hypergolic FUEL source is being released (wastefully) as such is considered a normal rocket propellant's "IGNITER".

    By igniter that means no spark is needed to initiate combustion, just add the oxidizer plus the propellant, and the rocket's engine ignites.

    It is not something that remains in the atmosphere, nor is it ever breathed. By the time it exits the rocket engine, in the small amount required to act like a "SPARK PLUG" to light up the normal rocket fuel, it has been converted into aluminum oxide dust, probably no more dust that such would get standing next to a modern highway. (Tires release all sorts of chemical dust into the air more so than a small rocket would).

    A sounding rocket as released by the Wallops island facility for instance has been being used to launch over 100 miles UP 10 soda-pop-can sized containers of metallic dyes (such as containing copper, strontium and barium). Such dyes are used in FIREWORK displays world wide.

    (And people aren't apparently dying from breathing the clouds from FIREWORKS displays which are less that 1000 feet up.. these clouds have been known to linger for days in some places of the world, and quite breathable. Or are they? (another thread maybe)..) The Wallops Island sounding rockets eject their colorful payload 100 miles up. Big difference.

    references:
    http://lr.home.tudelft.nl/fileadmin/...ne_igniter.pdf Rocket engine igniter using hypergolic organo-aluminum compounds

    http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/...gine-ignition/ - forum discussion for hypergolic ignition systems (organo-aluminum "TMA")

    Fireworks colors from TOXIC METALS: http://earthsky.org/human-world/how-...vibrant-colors that hasn't stopped anybody from launching fireworks rockets into the air right where the resultant explosive residue can and will be breathed..
    https://www.thoughtco.com/chemistry-...-colors-607341 - the chemistry of Fireworks, or the addition of METALS which oxidize at high temperature to create COLORS.

    An explosive detonation at a mine site for instance releases more aluminum oxides into the atmosphere than the TOTAL rocket program has ever released using this "spark-less" igniter system. Aluminum Oxide (from Bauxite ore) is where the "aluminum" metal comes from when reduced.

    Aluminum oxide release into the air all over the world due to mining for aluminum ore is horrendous.

    The sounding rocket using a "spark plug" igniter system of hypergolic organic aluminum plus an oxidizer hardly is any threat unless one's head is under the rocket's exhaust nozzle during ignition.

    A sounding rocket dispersing "fireworks coloration metals" 100 miles up or greater in the atmosphere is no threat.

    TrimethylAluminum in the small amount used in the burn chamber of a rocket is no threat.

    One has more of a threat in a city breathing the dust from vehicle's tyres eroding away and their nano-particles being spread in the amount of thousands of tonnes - those particles being inhaled, or from one's colorful fireworks displays are more hazardous than the brief hypergolic fuel ignition method.

    See: http://theconversation.com/our-prett...ironment-52451
    Last edited by Bob; 18th July 2017 at 17:37.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Great post Bob:-)
    Though it doesn't address the problem expressed in the OP, which clearly stated the following:
    Quote Posted by bbow73 (here)
    . . . they've been launching rockets to release a payload of trimethylaluminum into the atmosphere. This is very bad if you breath it.
    Side note, there was a marine biologist working out of Wallops that was studying the dying of the local phytoplankton with high levels of trimethylaluminum... but unfortunately she accidentally suicided after drinking a jug of anti-freeze behind a Food Lion.

    . . . help test for gaps in digital communication signals. . . . it is also an environmental hazard. The EPA said that no one is releasing harmful chemicals into our atmosphere.... WTF?

    NASA said that trimethylaluminum is harmless and occurs naturally in nature... this is not true.

    I was going write some letters to the EPA just about some facts about chemtrails but now I'm wondering what good it would do. Who is the EPA accountable to?
    Here are the data sheets for Trimethylaluminum.
    From the UK Government 247 pages:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...07bmpp-e-e.pdf

    Paper describing "Modeling the bioaccumulation . . . ":
    http://www.ivanciuc.org/Files/Reprin...006_10_133.pdf

    Environmental Directive from the OECD . . . including Biotechnology 281 pages:
    https://www.oecd.org/env/ehs/pestici...s/43045062.pdf

    Bioaccumulation Of Metal Substances by Aquatic Organisms (powerpoint pdf) 29 pages:
    http://www.oecd.org/chemicalsafety/r...t/48720528.pdf

    Bioconcentration Factor HTML 1 page:
    http://www.caesar-project.eu/index.p...=endpoint&ne=1

    SIGMA ALDRICH Material Safety Data Sheet (sigma-aldrich.com) 7 pages:
    http://nano.pse.umass.edu/sites/defa...ylaluminum.pdf

    Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) (DNF CO LTD) 9 pages:
    http://www.dnfsolution.com/MSDS/07_H...1.0%20MSDS.pdf

    Plus many, many more.
    Wiki search the following Bioaccumulative; Bioconcentration; Bioaccumulation; Trophic level; by which time you will hopefully have found your own direction.

    In a nutshell: It is not good for mankind or the environment. None of the above is good news by any measure. None of it belongs in our atmosphere at any level. Nor is the true reason for the practice.

    Nor is it good for the researchers exposing these hazards. Especially if they have to work alone and in isolation. So by raising the awareness, just might encourage young minds to enquire for themselves.

    The OP describes such a fate for one of the reseachers. A Microbiologist no doubt. I wonder how many Microbiologists are becoming dead as a result of their honest conscience in this dark science?
    ________________________

    Now all that said for the newbies to this science area, for my part, I took the short cut and expressed my opinion as to "WHY" these biochemicals are being aerosoled or distributed into the atmosphere, hence:
    "Monitoring and measuring the circulating magnetic fields by the infusion of artificial organic atmosphere"
    which is as close as I am going to go into the full explanation.

    The OP also describes as this being "to test for gaps in digital communications" or in other words "energy transfer". Energy transfer from satellites and the ground. Must be for peaceful purposes huh?
    ________________________

    So returning to the purpose and question raised by the OP:
    How do you report this activity as a concern?
    And to whom?
    What would be the likely consequences?

    It's immaterial to you and me Bob. Only the survivors will understand once they are microchipped.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    I'm pretty sure those who are into the fear aspect of "tri-methyl-aluminum" would just as easily jump on the bandwagon and miss the point I made quite clear..

    Psychodrama Analogy: when one says you know HYDROGEN CYANIDE exists in cigarette smoke, and probably most other smoke such as from wood burning stoves, and OMG from wildfires... heaven forbid we burn trash.. (or OMG gasoline (terribly toxic) is used in GASOLINE burning vehicles..) pick your pet 'toxin' to complain about.. REALITY though deals with percentages of substance.. Note that the "substance" is named (ergo then assuming that fear must be the end result of such a substance being named) and the fear is then drummed until "control" is achieved in the desired group..

    Reality: TONS more toxic substances are emitted into the air from natural sources (fires), and people inhale dangerous toxins from smoking even the more "green" cigarettes.

    PERSPECTIVE

    I pointed out clearly TMA (trimethylaluminum) is completely CONSUMED IN combustion chamber and no longer is in the exhaust from the rocket's very brief use of the igniter. Again TMA is converted to aluminum oxide and as a matter of fact, there is much more aluminum oxide in the atmosphere from being near a highway (emission from tyre material being aerosolized), or a Bauxite quarry.

    It is a matter of perspective. Clear and simple. I made this quite clear, and the push back to citing "toxicity" of a substance which never makes it to the atmosphere is actually interesting. What strategy is that if I may ask?

    Why keep repeating warning labels of the TMA substance. Nobody is emitting it (TMA) to the atmosphere by a sounding rocket launched from Wallops Island.

    There is no reason to report any TMA substance emission coming from a rocket engine. EPA or any other group would laugh their asses off hearing that one is having difficulty sorting out what hypergolic igniter source means (for a rocket engine).

    I'll try this way to explain ... the tip of a match on a strike anywhere match is considered as the igniter where friction cause it to combine with the rest of the fuel giving one a lit match.

    reference: http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/11/20/matches/

    Light a match and there is a TOXIC CLOUD of substance released into the atmosphere. Call the EPA about that, good luck.

    Minuscule amounts of a substance which is contained within a COMBUSTION CHAMBER and then allowed to mix with an oxidizer (oxidizer: that which provides a concentration of Oxygen for instance).

    The TMA releases its energy in the form of HEAT and LIGHT (think like a strike anywhere match) WITHIN the combustion chamber. Combustion chamber: a compartment where high temperatures exist and gases are formed.

    The TMA is converted into ALUMINUM OXIDE, and a VERY SMALL amount at that within the rocket engine combustion chamber. NO TMA leaves the exhaust nozzle of the rocket. Rocket exhausts are COMPLETELY regulated and accepted by the local authorities PLUS the EPA already. Any "igniter" compounds are consumed instantly and never are released in RAW FORM to the atmosphere. TMA is an igniter compound.

    There is no "complaint" possible to any 'agency' (EPA or otherwise), because any potential environmental concern complaint on such "TMA" issue(s) has no merit. Ergo, the OP POST and title asks a question, and the data shows that it's useless to try to complain due to no TMA vented to the atmosphere.

    Observations: The thread goes off topic also with "HAIL ROCKETS", which are different than SOUNDING rockets.

    Keeping the thread ON-TOPIC then, POINT:

    -- no EPA complaint would be legit or accepted due to no merit, no TMA released.

    POINT: There is no reference listed to verify "some biologist died after investigating alleged phytoplankton contamination".. Seems bogus to me if a verifiable reference or two can't be found and sorted. Hearsay is the "meat" of conspiracy, is it not?

    Show the FORUM where NASA says TMA is harmless - POINT. Hardly would they say such a thing. What is the reference to that statement?

    Lastly, there is no chemical spectral documentation that alleged "chemtrails" contain any of the said toxins alluded to in the OP title - POINT.

    Show me and the forum the spectral analysis, or the samples collected from a "chaser plane" getting air/gas samples. Show us real verifiable truth answering those points to lock the OP into reality..

    More: https://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops...ons/index.html

    Else I consider it hype, hearsay, mis-leading and/or bogus information bashing NASA, Wallops Island Launch facility, Sounding Rockets, etc..

    FYI - if one would go to the Wallops Island website and read about the LAUNCHES, it is explained in plain English what is being done and for what reasons. I see nothing "conspiratorial" or to brand these folks in the light that is being used to shine on them.

    Wallops references: https://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/home/

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops...c-coast-may-31

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops...ons/index.html - Missions

    Understanding Sounding Rockets: https://sites.wff.nasa.gov/code810/

    Here is a good link on EDUCATION - knowing what happens at Wallops Island Facility - https://sites.wff.nasa.gov/code810/ and https://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops...out/index.html

    Answering a previous poster's 'comments' to me - it is quite material to me and I would assume 'others' when lack of accuracy appears to exist or what may appear to be a "leading one down some inappropriate rabbit hole" maneuver. It seems to me that "taking the thread off topic with "microchip" comments" is really not relevant to this thread and if I were to be "conspiratorial in my thinking" seems to me, would probably be a ' jab ' towards keeping up the "fear" train of thought where there is none - such things I believe have no place in finding truth and staying focused.
    Last edited by Bob; 19th July 2017 at 13:22.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    The opening OP alleged mass dispersion of Trimethylaluminium into the atmosphere. This is entirely the basis of my assertion, which I stand by. This is a hazard to the environment. Regardless of the techno-scientific purpose for which I believe it would be done.

    Yet you assert deflection of this dispersible volume by distracting the reader into believing the only aluminium oxide consumed is that of the rocket propellent. Fair play to you. Thanks for the rocket dynamics, which I believe is off topic. So where does the payload of Trimethylaluminium end up?

    So we are at loggerheads here over two different precepts.

    This Geo-engineering the atmosphere is a global killer with seriously nefarious purposes and should be a concern to everybody, thus hence my raising the issue by my posts. Should I be wrong in my interpretation of the OP, I will stand corrected and will acknowledge so.

    And just to be very clear, the whole geo engineering process is absolutely dependant on the electro magnetic planetary process and its successful performance. This is my red line on the matter. I stand by that too.

    Somebody might like to Google "dead microbiologists", had it's own website at one time:-)

    As for the personal, patronising and condescending attacks, save them for somebody that gives a damn. There is no need for it.

    We are going to go around in circles here until the OP clarifies with more detail. It currently states " . . . to release a payload of trimethylaluminum into the atmosphere . . . ".

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Bob, I don't know what your problem is... did you not read my post or are you purposely ignoring it?
    I'm not talking about the crap used in propulsion. I'm talking about payloads that cover an area from Baltimore to Richmond.

    Also, it's not just one marine biologist (Tiffany Moisan), there is another scientist further south that discovered a correlation with similar launches (not through Orbital but another contractor) and hundreds of dead bottlenose dolphins with high levels of heavy metals, and not from what was expected to be mercury. It was titanium, strontium, barium, silveroxide and Trimethylaluminum. But she also accidentally drank too much bleach and there has been no further investigation.

    I'm not sure who to talk to since our own Gov Terry Mcauliffe was the one that approved the payload disbursements and NASA gave him a courtesy ride in one of their drones.
    Last edited by bbow73; 20th July 2017 at 04:15.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    also, there is nothing alleged about the payload disbursements. Its a matter of public record. This is why the EPA pisses me off so much. They say there is no releasing of chemicals or particulates into our atmosphere... are they f'ing idiots or just bs'ing? All they have to do is pick up a tech journal on modern aerospace projects... or use FOIA to read the reports on military dev, testing & application of their patented tech (also a matter of public record).

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    America has been silently invaded and conquered by an invisible enemy called the U.S. government (and then speculate all you want about who pulls the U.S. governments strings)

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    According to NASA there was no TMA "spread" all over the east coast "atmosphere". The rocket deployed 10 soda pop can canisters of colored metal "dyes" similarly used in fireworks displays at an altitude of 118 miles above the earth.

    118 miles above the earth is considered in the IONOSPHERE (50-500 miles distances above the earth).

    Nothing in the way of minuscule "dust sized particles" from that distance up can reach the earth. Things like micrometorites burn up and are consumed. A few pop cans of colored metal dye released that far up, much less than what happens in a ground level fire-works display, absolutely is no threat.

    This is a video of the deployment as seen from ground based high powered telescopes which briefly tracked the metal vapor puffs.



    It is customary on this forum to CITE references with sufficient details that credible sources can be vetted, verified and proved, and leave conjecture and hearsay elsewhere, and to practice a civil dialog between the members showing professionalism. I have asked for references to research the OP's claims and got back none.

    I have provided numerous references citing TMA when it hits the oxygen in the rocket engine's exhaust chamber is converted to aluminum oxide. Clear data, and education to help understand the going's on in rocket engines, TMA what happens, and what the "launch" was. There was NO TMA released into the atmosphere by a rocket launched from the Wallops Island facility. There was no TMA spread over the east coast of the US by a rocket launched from the Wallops Island facility.

    ref: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops...atlantic-coast - this is the flight report detailing the launch
    Last edited by Bob; 20th July 2017 at 02:31.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Quote Posted by bbow73 (here)
    Bob, I don't know what your problem is... did you not read my post or are you just an idiot?
    I'm not talking about the crap used in propulsion. I'm talking about payloads that cover an area from Baltimore to Richmond.

    bbow73, please refrain from making personal attacks. It does not help your case. If you were called an idiot, I would not stand for that either. All members deserve to be treated with respect. Keep it kind. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?


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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/wallops...c-coast-may-31

    "10 canisters about the size of a soft drink can will be deployed in the air, 6 to 12 miles away from the 670-pound main payload."

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    sorry for the ad hominem Bob, I had a bad day and lost my patience. I assumed you were purposefully making a straw man fallacy. My bad.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    OK, thank you for providing some reference links.

    I especially like your link https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/s...rs/metals.html which describes ALL the chemical and elements used for creating VISIBLE clouds.

    I see your concern about TMA (tri-methyl-aluminum) as such is listed on that page from NASA as one of the substances used to create WHITE SMOKE LIKE trails. If that was released at a LOW altitude absolutely it would create a legitimate CHEMTRAIL. (a chemical molecule which is not normal to a cloud but could be used for nefarious purposes).

    What I still have to point out is TMA the moment it hits any oxygen, it converts to heat, water, CO2 and Aluminum Oxide. The toxicity of Aluminum oxide is NOT the same as TMA.

    IF the Aluminum Oxide were nano-sized aerosols, that would be an extreme health hazard.

    I will point this out from the first link also:

    Quote Commonly used vapors that are released in space are:

    Tri-methyl aluminum (TMA),
    Lithium, and
    Barium.
    Tri-methyl aluminum (TMA)

    Tri-methyl aluminum reacts with oxygen and produces chemi-luminescence when exposed to the atmosphere.

    The products of the reaction are aluminum oxide, carbon dioxide, and water vapor, which also occur naturally in the atmosphere.

    TMA releases are most often used to study the neutral winds in the lower ionosphere at night at altitudes of 100 miles (160 kilometers) or less.
    Here is the thing - NASA says SPACE, typically 100 miles up.. The "or less" is the wild-card. I would investigate at what LOWER altitudes have they released a compound which would potentially create nano-sized particles.

    My guess is, IF there are "sprayers" doing chemtrails, that IF they released TMA through a sprayer attached to a high altitude airplane (a Jet works as props pbly would not be flying high enough), what could potentially happen is a WHITE CLOUD (not a watervapor contrail), but a legitimate "CHEMTRAIL"..

    What such a chemtrail at altitude could do, is influence weather. It would be a method to evoke charged nano-particles high up into the atmosphere which could very well be part of "weather wars". A tank of TMA being sealed and devoid of oxygen would be a storage method onboard such an equipped Jet.

    POINT - TMA though is converted when it hits Oxygen. It cannot remain stable in the atmosphere. Nor could it remain stable in WATER, nor stable within Phytoplankton. The oxygen in the water and the oxygen in the air cause it to rapidly convert (with no pure TMA left) to aluminum oxide plus heat boiling off the water into a mix of aluminum oxide particles plus water vapor. A PERFECT nucleation source to attract rain/storms. (and a basis substance to be used in 'weather wars').

    NASA points out that the ionosphere extends down to 50 miles at times. So if their sounding rockets are trying to probe at that low an altitude, I would venture to guess then they could use a "charged particle source" to make a visible tracer cloud.

    In the image NASA provides, saying WHEN TMA is used on a sounding rocket to create a visible ALUMINUM OXIDE (inert substance) water-vapor-smoke-like trail.. below

    the altitude that the Aluminum Oxide "visible" white trail starts at (the bottom in other words), is 80 kilometers altitude. (That is 49.7 miles, rounded to 50 miles up).

    At 50 miles up, that is 264,000 feet in altitude. No regular JET airliner is going to be able to fly at that altitude to release "aluminum oxide" from TMA being sprayed (which instantly converts into aluminum oxide, plus heat plus water)..

    So it is a legitimate substance for visibly marking the bottom of the ionosphere (50 miles up), and it is an illegitimate reason (or impractical reason) to use it on Sounding Rockets to try to "spray" a large portion of the population.

    It's legitimate purpose is a hypergolic igniter for rocket engines. In that capacity, it is consumed as I pointed out earlier in the rocket exhaust.

    The recent NASA launch which caused the commotion as what I pointed out, the June 29th 2017 launch from Wallops Island, was designed to test the 10 pop can sized canister system which deploys the metallic dyes into "SPACE".. Their definition of space is that which is about where the IONOSPHERE starts (50 miles up and continues upwards).

    Can atmospheric nano-particles (assuming that the TMA when it hits oxygen converts to nano-sized particles) up at 264,000 feet or higher EVER reach the earth's surface? (and be breathable, or lodge itself in RAIN, and end up in phytoplankton?).. A nano-particle in the atmosphere nucleates, meaning, the particles start to agglomerate together in a nucleus. At that point they are no longer nano-particles. (I have a very in-depth thread on the forum which talks about nano-particle dangers in the atmosphere).

    Is NASA interested in creating artificial Noctiulucent clouds - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud. Are they studying such with sounding rockets releasing Aluminum Oxide at the bottom of the ionosphere. There has been discussion on climate modification that some method to create a reflective shield is needed which will REMAIN aloft. Seems to me, an "aluminum" shield if it "hangs" out in the lower ionosphere could fit the bill. The question would be, can Aluminum Oxide be reduced solely in the Ionosphere (removing the oxygen from the compound leaving nascent aluminum) ? I don't think so as Aluminum (nascent) quickly scavenges up oxygen to recombine back to Aluminum Oxide. Could nascent aluminum facilitate Ozone hole depletion? I believe so. Reducing Aluminum oxide to pure aluminum takes a LOT of energy.

    The point I am getting here, is quite possibly you've stumbled upon the mechanisms of what may be behind the creating of real chemtrails, and what may be the reason for releasing aluminum compounds at very high altitudes (which won't come down to earth easily, nor be affected by high altitude weather-storm-winds)...

    But, the TMA is not being left in the atmosphere even if it is sprayed by a lower altitude jet plane at 40-60 thousand feet. Immediately it changes to Aluminum Oxide plus water, heat, and some CO2.

    In another post you reference from the link I provided from the June 29th launch of the 118 mile high canister release of the colored metal dyes, the WEIGHT of the rest of the payload appears to be in question. The payload consists of monitoring instruments, launch system for the 10 soda-pop-can, control computer, structural metal, and so forth. I doubt since "white clouds" were not part of the aim of this launch that liquid TMA was part of that "payload". Even if for some odd reason it were, a deployment of TMA immediately would convert to aluminum oxide, water vapor, heat, and some CO2.. and such would not be able to be deployed from the SECOND STAGE until the launch vehicle were way out of the regular ATMOSPHERE..

    Quote The basic elements of sounding rocket are a solid-fuel rocket motor and a science payload.
    All the above are reasons why I questioned that TMA was being toxically released over the eastern states of the US by a sounding rocket out of Wallops Island. Aluminum Oxide is what comes out of any release of TMA, and "aluminum oxide" is not considered "toxic". Another poster kept repeating the toxic spec's and dangers of the stuff, neglecting to focus on when TMA hits the air, TMA is GONE instantly, there is never even a moment when it can be inhaled when released at some distance from an observer. Nobody is going to be inhaling raw TMA.

    People could be inhaling Aluminum oxide nano-particles, and THAT concerns me.. The world could be experiencing nano-aluminum oxide particles in the lower ionosphere for weather modification purposes (such wouldn't fall to the earth in any appreciable length of time), so what insidious purpose would be putting aluminum oxide into the environment be?

    Back to the other thread component title, what's with the EPA? As I pointed out the EPA and other agencies monitor rocket exhausts.. Over the length of the sounding rocket period from inception to current, reports are a total aluminum oxide contribution from solid rocket engines is considered negligible and non-toxic. EPA will as I said, laugh at anyone saying TMA is being left "ACTIVE" (TOXIC in other words), in the environment. It can't stay stable as TMA, it HAS to convert over to Aluminum oxide, heat, water vapor and CO2. That explains why they laugh.

    I think the point of real contention of what may be IN the phytoplankton is not TMA, but ALUMINUM OXIDE in the form of nano-particles, probably agglomerated, and possibly the nucleus of the cell and it's genetic material damaged. I think that is what may be getting "researchers" in some hot water for revealing such if that really is the case. Where then is the aluminum oxide coming from. My bet is from tyres from motorways, plastics, refineries, and other industrial sources.. No doubt a very large political nightmare, and industrial liability.

    Specifically nano-particle aluminum oxide which COULD conceivably be generated by a needle-point spray head if released in large quantities at the elevations of less than 1000 feet would very well be deadly, but not from the TMA itself (stated above why), but from the nano-aluminum-oxide.

    On your link to Orbital ATK, a Virginia based company, to deliver cargo and supplies to the International Space Station from spaceports, including the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport (MARS) located at Wallops Island (from the link you provided). I don't see anything insidious about them nor their operations. There is nothing saying that I can find that Orbital ATK is deliberately trying to release TMA into the environment by any means. I was never questioning that Orbital ATK exists.. Just questioning that TMA is existing in the free state in the atmosphere, which it cannot..

    On the last note, of course we have bad days now and then, where we can get reactive as all get out. Bill has asked us as a group to PLEASE keep it professional no matter where we are in the main forum or sub-forums. The goals being to be objective, clear, concise, and present bridges of understanding, and solve things like conspiracies, and find out what and why and by whom.
    Last edited by Bob; 20th July 2017 at 08:12.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    hmm, this is very interesting. It's frustrating that I can't find any of Tiffany Moisan's research. I wonder how stable TMA is if were accidentally leaked or disposed of in ocean waters. It would be good to know if was specifically TMA or the Aluminum Oxide breakdown that was killing the phytoplankton. (I'm thinking of the neglect that led to the dioxin contamination of Times Beach)

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    It took me a while but I read your detailed response. It clearly took a lot of your time, thank you. Have you seen Frankenskies? I'd be interested in your analysis of the material (perhaps in it's own thread)

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Quote Posted by bbow73 (here)
    hmm, this is very interesting. It's frustrating that I can't find any of Tiffany Moisan's research. I wonder how stable TMA is if were accidentally leaked or disposed of in ocean waters. It would be good to know if was specifically TMA or the Aluminum Oxide breakdown that was killing the phytoplankton. (I'm thinking of the neglect that led to the dioxin contamination of Times Beach)

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    It took me a while but I read your detailed response. It clearly took a lot of your time, thank you. Have you seen Frankenskies? I'd be interested in your analysis of the material (perhaps in it's own thread)
    It did take a little over two hours to research the material and present it with detail in a stepwise form. My reason for that was to HELP with understanding, and to observe and try to sort out energetically what it was that you were wanting to point out to the GROUP. Frustration is obviously something which can block any and all of us, learning the skills to communicate through that though becomes a boone in the long run. My belief is everything we are "challenged with" provides an opportunity and we have the tools available to get to 'that immediate next step'.

    I have seen excerpts of Franken-Skies.. (for instance here is the Facebook Page) - https://www.facebook.com/FrankenSkyTheMovie/

    What concerned folks are plagued with in open societies (those which are able to talk with each other and share experiences freely) comes down to seeing something that is 'out of the norm' and getting moreso worried that somebody or something is trying to control and/or influence their lives. That's our bottom line.

    The gift we have on this Forum for instance, is to be able to dialog back and forth, hopefully sort out experiences, and then connect some dots. Sometimes something totally which may seem off-base at first may point one into a direct understanding of the workings behind the scenes. It takes a willingness to plow through emotion, and sort it. If one cares, one sorts it and presents it to the group.

    That's kinda the ground-rules I have set for myself.

    Chemtrails verses Contrails.. How to make a legitimate chemtrail is to drip TMA into the exhaust system. OR to mix trimethylaluminum into the KEROSENE used as Jet fuel. ( !! )

    here is the PDF article which talks about how pyrophoric substances, of which TMA is one of those is NOT stable in air or water.. (So one couldn't disperse it into the atmosphere or get it into water without it decomposing into aluminum oxide).. https://ehs.unl.edu/sop/s-pyrophoric_%26_substances.pdf

    Quote Hazards of Pyrophoric Chemicals
    1. Liquids
    While not exhaustive, pyrophoric liquids often include specific chemicals from the following
    chemical families:
    • Alkyl metals (e.g., t-butyllithium, trimethylaluminum, and diethylzinc)
    • Alkyl metal halides (e.g., diethylaluminum bromide)
    • Alkyl magnesium halides ‘Grignard reagents’ (e.g., methylmagnesium bromide)
    • Alkylphosphines (e.g., triethylphosphine)
    • Boranes (e.g., borane dimethylsulfide complex)
    The safe transport of such liquids is then UNDER a layer of KEROSENE which has been purified to not have any free oxygen..

    Would TMA potentially be a FUEL BOOSTER or some strange "protectant" to jet turbine blades (the secondary combustion chamber high temperature blades).. POSSIBLY..

    Could TMA PLUS KEROSENE be accidentally (or deliberately) dumped by lets say special purpose JET PLANES which have had a need to dump fuel? POSSIBLY

    What is needed is to obtain a spectrographic analysis of said hydrocarbons where they may have been dumped. TMA and/or other pyrophoric substances based on some "metal" could be analyzed. I assume some researchers have started looking into that.

    Jets do dump fuel preferably over the ocean.. Please take a look here to see what reasons FUEL is jettisoned from an aircraft: http://science.howstuffworks.com/tra...re-landing.htm

    Are wetlands for instance being analyzed to see what may be in them? Was that the issue that got some researchers in trouble? I don't know but that is a good question to ask in my opinion..

    Can TMA exist in jet fuel as an "additive", most certainly it would be stable as long as there was absolutely NO OXYGEN contamination. I don't know how that could be the case if a tank filled with a mixture of that stuff starts getting shaken around, no doubt there would be some air reaching the TMA on a micro-scale. Could it ignite, quite possibly.. Could a contaminated (think terrorist sabotage for instance) fuel be placed in a jet liner, or a military - quite possibly, and it would be terribly insidious.. Mysterious fires, explosions in the sky. Would the authorities potentially silence those revealing such, or the evidence on-land (kerosene plus TMA for instance or ANY pyrophoric substance mixed in with an OIL overlayer) ?

    My conspiracy hat then goes on and the lights start flashing at that point.. The only way to sort it is to do spectrographic analysis.

    I pointed this out in another chemtrail thread, that even OPTICAL non-contact remote spectrographic analyzers are possible from the GROUND to focus on a chemtrail exhaust and SEE chemically what is being released. When I mentioned that, the thread died, and nobody talked about actually seeing what is there EXACTLY and then sorting WHO is doing it and for what reason... The analysis step proves, and conjecture and or conspiracy then is diminished emotionally, and objectively solutions can be obtained.

    With such analysis how long would it take then concerned members of parliaments, or congresses all over the world, and even (god forbid) MSM would take notice. And chemtrails then would no longer be in the tin foil hat realm.

    So to summarize TMA by itself would decompose spontaneously to Aluminum Oxide and heat and CO2 when in the water. POSSIBLY if some stabilizing agent such as KEROSENE plus an emulsifier is added, TMA could be bound to KEROSENE (which Jet fuel is)... Possibly such an "agent" additive is being sold to the military as a PROTECTORANT for the exhaust turbine in high performance jets (saying the aluminum oxide will protect the blades from pitting lets say...)

    Would then Aluminum Oxide be emitted from such a fuel? Very small amounts, could very well be being aerosolized, and a legitimate CHEMTRAIL would be formed. Jets without such an additive would NOT be creating legitimate chemtrails, but would be creating CONTRAILS. (And that is where speculation comes in, just observing with the eye verses observing with an OPTICAL SPECTROGRAPH, the contrail)...

    So in a way, your OP post has helped me to take a very close look at HOW a contrail can become a legitimate chemtrail.. Would there be legitimate aluminum oxide uses for such nano-sized particles in the lower ionosphere, or the upper stratosphere? That is a trillion dollar question.

    Thanks for the discussion and sharing, and ASKING the questions.
    Last edited by Bob; 20th July 2017 at 16:54.

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    Default Re: Trimethylaluminum released in the atmosphere: What's with the EPA?

    Well worth a bookmark, good reference:-)

    As "another poster" to "the other poster", thanks for the summary concession to spectral analysis for possible examination of this chemical aberration in our skies. From my perspective, this analysis doesn't address the root of the problem but evaluates the by product of the source problem. The active chemistry found are by products of the highly charged isotopic fluctuations of the electro magnetic field in this region of the atmosphere. Multi-layered, interactive and at, or seeking equilibrium with the planetary process.

    Thanks for a great explanation, that has satisfied the scope of the original OP. Quite agree, no complaining to EPA, NASA, ESA or any of the alphabet Corporations will realise any sort of tangible truth as each are compartmentalised within their own regions of influence and are probably telling the truth when they say "we don't know".

    It's enough I raise the awareness of the EM factor. At that, is my final participation on this topic here:-)
    Last edited by Snoweagle; 22nd July 2017 at 16:45. Reason: typo:isotopic

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