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Thread: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Quote Posted by Rawhide68 (here)
    Could it be that the russians have built in some antigravity device into that jet?
    No.

    Read about the evolution of the technology here:
    Clever computerized fly-by-wire, powerful engines, and thrust vectoring. (And the skill of the pilot has something to do with it, too!)

    As Builder explained
    , the plane is designed to be unstable in the air... and the computer systems keep it all under control.

    Without a computer interface, no pilot could ever fly the thing, even in level flight. But that means it's really easy for it to be flipped into instability within seconds — which is the secret of its supermaneuverabilty.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 23rd July 2017 at 01:43.

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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Yes - you can see from the vids that at times it looks as though it is about to get completely out of control, then the pilot brings her back just in the nick of time - it's superb flying and an absolute joy to behold.

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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Rawhide68 (here)
    Could it be that the russians have built in some antigravity device into that jet?
    No.

    Read about the evolution of the technology here:
    Clever computerized fly-by-wire, powerful engines, and thrust vectoring. (And the skill of the pilot has something to do with it, too!)

    As Builder explained
    , the plane is designed to be unstable in the air... and the computer systems keep it all under control.

    Without a computer interface, no pilot could ever fly the thing, even in level flight. But that means it's really easy for it to be flipped into instability within seconds — which is the secret of its supermaneuverabilty.
    Okay, but what about the electrical filaments that zip around it, some at great length?

    B.
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Avalon Member uzn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Different Angle of the SU-35 Airshow footage from above


    and dont forget Chinas J-20


    But I would still choose the SU-35. It´s born to fly.

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    Avalon Member Builder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Btw it's not very difficult to do those tumbles with a fly-by-wire plane. The critical part is judgment and experience to do the right thing at the right position, altitude and time. As agile as those planes are, if you enter a maneuver at the wrong altitude, or there is a slight problem with the engines, something like this can happen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sknyliv_air_show_disaster

    Last edited by Builder; 23rd July 2017 at 09:11.
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Such a beautiful butterfly, such a pity she can kill. . . . .

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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    One naive question - this is all very impressive to watch - does the plane not make itself a convenient target while doing these histrionics?

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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Here is another un-stable airframe that would fall out of the sky if not for the fly-by-wire system:



    Not as manoeuvrable as the SU-35 or Raptor F22, due to not having vectored thrust. Makes a big difference. Makes the Typhoon look almost obsolete.

    This is pretty:


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    Avalon Member Builder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Quote Posted by happyuk (here)
    One naive question - this is all very impressive to watch - does the plane not make itself a convenient target while doing these histrionics?
    This is what I alluded to in a previous post. Those extreme show maneuvers are useless in combat because the aircraft is basically standing still and waiting to be shot down by anybody within range.

    The Typhoon is up there with the best even without thrust vectoring because it is light and has big wings so it can keep its energy through hard turns. F-22 pilots have called the Typhoon "a beast" after facing them in training fights.

    Energy ist the currency of arial combat. You only have so much in form of hight, speed and fuel in the tanks. Note that the planes you see performing those airshow maneuvers have neither hight, speed nor much fuel in their tanks (because they couldn't do those maneuvers with full tanks).

    The sooner a plane has used up its energy, the sooner it has to drop out of combat, or gets shot down because it's a sitting duck. A less known reason for thrust vectoring is that by using engine thrust to direct the plane, less control surface deflection is needed which reduces drag, which helps preserving energy.

    The main issue of the F-35 is that it chews through its energy very fast. Because of its small wings it has a high angle of attack through turns which destroys energy. Its engine needs a lot of fuel to compensate for that, but it can't use external tanks because they would destroy its stealth characteristics. It's great in a straight line hit and run attack, but can't linger at the battlefield which reduces it's effectiveness drastically. So more planes are needed to do the same job which is exactly what you want if you had the monopoly to build this too big to fail trillion dollar fighter generation.
    Last edited by Builder; 23rd July 2017 at 15:07.
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    Avalon Member Builder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Those videos give a pretty good idea of what's going on in an air combat. Note that it's mostly about distances, speed and detectability. There is no "and now the Suchoi uses it's famous air show maneuver to win the fight" moment:



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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Quote Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Rawhide68 (here)
    Could it be that the russians have built in some antigravity device into that jet?
    No.

    Read about the evolution of the technology here:
    Clever computerized fly-by-wire, powerful engines, and thrust vectoring. (And the skill of the pilot has something to do with it, too!)

    As Builder explained
    , the plane is designed to be unstable in the air... and the computer systems keep it all under control.

    Without a computer interface, no pilot could ever fly the thing, even in level flight. But that means it's really easy for it to be flipped into instability within seconds — which is the secret of its supermaneuverabilty.
    Okay, but what about the electrical filaments that zip around it, some at great length?

    B.
    Not electrical filaments -- water vapour created from the increased air pressure against the body of the craft during some of the harder turns.

    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Some of those surfaces, at the edges especially, experience super-sonic air speeds. I think it is breaking the sound barrier. It looks similar, at least.

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=40+pi...=1500835102439

    accidentally pretty cool pictures
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 23rd July 2017 at 18:50.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian Sukhoi Su-35: handbrake turns in midair :)

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Some of those surfaces, at the edges especially, experience super-sonic air speeds. I think it is breaking the sound barrier. It looks similar, at least.

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=40+pi...=1500835102439

    accidentally pretty cool pictures
    Here's my favourite, lol!

    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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