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    Japan Avalon Member bbow73's Avatar
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    Default i ching skepticism

    Been listening to the audio translation of the i ching, pretty interesting.
    This was recommended by Dr. Richard Alan Miller. He's wacky but I can't argue with success.

    I don't understand the randomness of it. You could throw the pennies 5 times in a row and get 5 different outcomes. Also, the hexagrams/interpretations seem really vague. I could read them in any number of ways.

    What am I missing?

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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    The oracle is you. Divination tools just help you access yourself. They give you a frame of reference and some structure. The I-Ching, Tarot Cards, Runes... these things are not magical. But YOU are.

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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    I've used the I Ching many times and found it invaluable. As WM said, the oracle is someone's own higher self.

    The Wilhelm translation is classic and highly specific. Each hexagram has 6 lines, this is when case-by-case advice can really shine.

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    England Avalon Member shijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    The preface by Jung is invaluable to the Wilhelm edition,however the translation from Chinese into German into English by Wilhelm and also by James Legge in his edition, is found wanting and basic, especially in the light of further scholarship. Try reading and divining using Stephen Karcher book Total I Ching,(TimeWarner books).Happy hunting and remember Confucious said that if he had fifty spare years left on the planet he would devote them all to further his studies of this great work, sometimes understanding comes slowly!

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    Quote Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
    The oracle is you. Divination tools just help you access yourself. They give you a frame of reference and some structure. The I-Ching, Tarot Cards, Runes... these things are not magical. But YOU are.
    Well put.

    I've used the Viking Runes (Ralph Blum's set + very well-known book) many times. I've found them astonishingly accurate, once or twice quite scarily so.

    But yes, it's not any external agency that's telling me anything. I'm accessing the information myself. It could equally well be a pendulum (and some people do that), or maybe I could just lie on the grass and stare at the clouds. (People do that, too...)

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    Avalon Member StandingWave's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    I came across a fascinating book some years ago on the relationship between the I Ching, musical structure and the structure of DNA by Michael Hayes. If you want to understand the I Ching better you cannot go wrong in exploring this man's ideas. Here is an excerpt from an article written by Colin Wilson on Hayes' discovery of the symmetries in the I Ching and how they are to be found in the structure of DNA:

    Quote Significance of Sixty-Four

    Then he remembered where he had come across the number sixty-four - in the I Ching, the Chinese Book of Changes, which is used as an oracle. And the basic unit of the I Ching is, of course, a 'triplet' of lines, either broken or unbroken, corresponding to the principles of Yin and Yang, which might be regarded as darkness and light, or the male and female principles, or the moon and the sun. Hayes recalled that when he had studied the I Ching in his hippie days, he had wondered vaguely why the number of its 'hexagrams' (each one made up of two trigrams) should be sixty-four - eight times eight - and not seven times seven or nine times nine. And now he learned that each of the triplet units of RNA links up with another triplet in the DNA molecule. So the 'double helix' of information in the heart of all reproductive cells is made up from sixty-four hexagrams, as in the I Ching. Could this really be just coincidence? Since his extra-mural course left him with time to kill, he began looking more closely into this 'coincidence'. Of course, it seemed unlikely that Fu Hsi, the legendary creator of the I Ching, had stumbled upon some kind of mystical insight into the 'code of life.' But it seemed worth investigating. If this was not coincidence, then there should be eight trigrams hidden in DNA. And when he had learned that this was so, Mike Hayes began to feel that he had stumbled upon something that could be very important indeed.
    quoted from Hidden Harmonies by Colin Wilson.

    Hope this is helpful to someone.
    Last edited by StandingWave; 29th July 2017 at 05:03. Reason: html tags
    "There is nothing in a caterpillar that tells you it's going to be a butterfly." R. Buckminster Fuller

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    England Avalon Member shijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
    The oracle is you. Divination tools just help you access yourself. They give you a frame of reference and some structure. The I-Ching, Tarot Cards, Runes... these things are not magical. But YOU are.
    Well put.

    I've used the Viking Runes (Ralph Blum's set + very well-known book) many times. I've found them astonishingly accurate, once or twice quite scarily so.

    But yes, it's not any external agency that's telling me anything. I'm accessing the information myself. It could equally well be a pendulum (and some people do that), or maybe I could just lie on the grass and stare at the clouds. (People do that, too...)
    Totally agree with the above,however the I Ching descibes itself as the soul of a dead king,King Wen of the Chou dynasty if memory serves me,weve withdrawn those projections and now see it as a manifestation of the unconscious.Perhaps its time to do the same with space er beings and intergalactic civilisations etc, just a thought.

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    Hong Kong Avalon Member syrwong's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    The answer to the OP is that I Ching is an experience. The experience is best entered with some sort of belief and humility. Entering with skepticism may take a longer time to appreciate its power. With "scientific" arrogance you may never get the experience.

    My experience of the I Ching is that its best use is not to predict, although some esoteric masters can do so. There are other ways of predicting the failure or success of an undertaking or knowing the unknown. I Ching is the champion in that it explains to you the environment you are presently in, and what a Gentleman might choose to do. That is, it gives advice. You may choose to ignore the advice and take the action of the Little Man. This is all right, as you have free will. There are times when a Gentlemanís option leads to failure and the Little Manís action success.

    Many people may think that they know the present position very well. Experience tells us this is not so, we often make a poor assessment of the present, thus leading to bad decisions. The I Ching is an excellent book of consultation primarily because it helps you know the present. That it can predict is only a subsidiary function.
    Last edited by syrwong; 29th July 2017 at 16:45.

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    Canada Avalon Member Fellow Aspirant's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    It's my understanding (with the help of Dr. RAM) that when performing any ritual, whether divination or spell casting, the most important component is the intent of the person performing the rite. In order to arrive at and understand the correct outcome, you must be clearly focussed on who you are, why you are performing the ritual, and what you are intending to communicate with. Your spirit does the rest.

    B.
    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the restóa kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

    Albert E.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    I used I ching only once for the very reason you cite, the seeming randomness. I threw the sticks and got the hexagram, mountain on mountain. It suggested I try Hatha yoga. I did. Within six months I was teaching the class...

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    Avalon Member kirolak's Avatar
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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    There is definitely something allied to music in the I Ching; as a musician (not of note!) myself, I frequently receive a hexagram that refers to "the music that moves", along with other musical references.

    The I Ching is not to be trifled with - I understand her to be one's High Self, & an ancient feminine energy. I've always been stunned by the accuracy of the replies/insights I get, even using the on line version. Although friends of mine say they are frequently lied to & mislead by the same Oracle, I suspect it's a of concentration & interpretation, along with an open mind willing to see oneself from another perspective.

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    Default Re: i ching skepticism

    Sorry for maybe a slightly off topic question:

    Does anybody know a place I can buy a set of I ching playing cards? What specifically I am looking for is like playing cards feel, like casino style feel and construction, but rather of the I ching? I have found cards but not of that same quality and feel of a standard playing card deck. The reason I want the playing card style is you can shuffle them easily. Sorry for the off topic change


    Has anybody played around with orders of the I ching and What do people think of Terrance McKenna and his timewave zero?

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