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Thread: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    Here's my take on JPMorgan chief Jamie Dimon trash talking bitcoin again.
    Yes - I just read your post, before noticing your link here. Cool.

    But - question - do you think Dimon unintentionally took a stupid pill before making his Bitcoin is a "fraud", "“worse than tulip bulbs", comments ... or do you think that he was knowingly acting as a contrarian indicator, as I describe in the last significant paragraph in my rambling essay above?
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    It's his second run at bitcoin. In 2015 he trashed it as well.

    He does not speak off the cuff, so his take on it is well thought out. His agenda is the question, since he is a big believer in the underlying technology.

    The joke on the street was that the $400 crash of BTC since the comments was JPM traders selling btc so they would not be fired.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    He does not speak off the cuff, so his take on it is well thought out. His agenda is the question, since he is a big believer in the underlying technology.
    Then that (to my cynical thinking) makes Dimon's comments consistent with how I take much of the other "main stream crypto FUD" ... They all seem to be saying:
    Bitcoin is bad, risky, fraudulent, ... You need the government and competent big institutions to come to your rescue and to clean up Bitcoin's bad act.
    Peeling a layer deeper into my cynical onion, I suspect that Bitcoin was created to be a Version 0.1 distributed blockchain ledger, with architectural, implementation, and institutional flaws that would create a mandate for the government to come to the rescue.

    ===

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    The joke on the street was that the $400 crash of BTC since the comments was JPM traders selling btc so they would not be fired.
    That works
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Both Russia and China are developing complex and important relations with the other major petro providers, such as Iran, Venezuela, and Qatar.
    Speaking of Venezeula and of the decline and fall of the petro-dollar - a couple of hours ago, the Wall Street Journal reported that Venezuela Stops Accepting Dollars for Oil Payments Following U.S. Sanctions:
    Quote CARACAS, Venezuela—The government of this oil-rich but struggling country, looking for ways to circumvent U.S. sanctions, is telling oil traders that it will no longer receive or send payments in dollars
    Zero Hedge has more detail and background in their article on this at De-Dollarization Spikes - Venezuela Stops Accepting Dollars For Oil Payments.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Zero Hedge has more detail and background in their article on this at De-Dollarization Spikes - Venezuela Stops Accepting Dollars For Oil Payments.
    This Zero Hedge article also includes this wonderful graphic, showing the history of the dominant currencies in the Western world, over the last several hundred years, culminating with a prediction that a global currency (denoted here by the UN flag) will be what follows the US Dollar.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    I anticipate that this same theme, the replacement of the current US Dollar based systems with distributed ledger blockchain technology systems, is also about to happen in the precious metals markets, such as gold and silver, as an integral part of a larger, complex, set of core architectural changes to the world's financial, monetary, and property systems.
    I realize now that the above sentence, from my long and complex post on the previous page, is misleading.

    When I say "about to happen", I don't mean that I expect this change will be over and done with anytime soon.

    Rather, this resembles to me the change that corporate computing went through in the 1950's and 1960's, going from tabulated punch cards and vacuum tubes, to magnetic drums and disks and small to medium scale transistor technology such as on IBM's 360 systems. These 360 systems supported a new form of software to handle corporate ledgers, using COBOL (an old fashioned business computer programming language that is still in use today) and ISAM (Indexed Sequential Access Method) databases. Later in the 1970's, ISAM and its variants began to give way to relational databases such as SQL (Structured Query Language).

    Such major migrations happen faster now (or so it seems), but they still take many years to unfold, with some early adopters able to move much more quickly, and some "dinosaurs" running their old COBOL/ISAM programs in emulation mode "forever" (meaning, until bankruptcy, restructuring, buy-out and end-of-life shuts them down.)

    Something that I've long noticed in the computer business - significant changes happen more slowly than I expect, years slower ... but they end up being more pervasive than I had been able to imagine.

    ... in other words ... slower, but eventually bigger.

    Accounting was done in ledger books (actual bound paper books) with a pen using double entry bookkeeping for centuries. Its use in Western finances dates back to Italy in the 13th or 14th centuries. The Italian Luca Pacioli wrote up the first detailed description of the method in 1494.

    In the later half of the 20th century, the underlying technology used in double entry bookkeeping changed from pen and paper, to computers, but the conceptual principles largely remained. For each financial asset, there is somewhere, a master set of books, with offsetting and balancing debits and credits, tracking how much of what is where, and recording the transactions on those assets. Each such set of accounting books (or equivalent databases) is owned by some corporation, individual or government, and constitutes one of their core assets. Any transfer of financial assets between corporations is communicated between the parties by some other means, and (hopefully) entered into the books of both parties in equal and offsetting ways.

    Now with distributed blockchain ledgers, the ledger can exist as a separate entity, running on a collection of cooperating computers that might be controlled by individuals or corporations unrelated to and unknown to the corporations whose business activity is being recorded. If the assets being transferred happen to all be tracked on the same blockchain, then such transactions between corporations (or individuals or governments) can happen "directly on the blockchain", without communication delays and uncertainties between two parties maintaining independent, non-public, sets of books.

    "Bookkeeping", which has long been a privately held activity requiring trust in one's accountants, transforms into being a service requiring little trust its providers, that can be shared at arms length by mutually untrusting, even hostile, competitors.

    These sorts of changes can take decades to unfold.

    I'm presently confident that distributed blockchain ledgers will be one of those things that takes longer than I expect to happen, but will result in more profound changes than I can currently imagine.

    (P.S. -- oh -- and current cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin will become footnotes in some history book before its over.)
    Last edited by Paul; 14th September 2017 at 11:14.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Here's my take on Maduro's move to nix the petro-dollar and where it might lead.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
    My blog: http://grayseconomy.com

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    Here's my take on Maduro's move to nix the petro-dollar and where it might lead.
    Yes - when the leader of a country with major oil reserves decides to sell that oil for Euros, or anything else other than US Dollars, then that leader ends up dying, too young, and rather rudely.

    But this will not always be. Sometime, perhaps yesterday, perhaps a decade or two from now, there will be such a leader who survives. There will be such a time of which it can truthfully be said "This time is different."

    Venezuela's Maduro might be the harbinger of that time ... or he might not be. I presume he has a damn good security detail.

    Actually - Maduro would not be the first, rather just the first in the Americas.

    Iran's Hassan Rouhani and Russia's Vladimir Putin appear to already be succeeding at selling oil outside the Petro-Dollar market. Sheikh Abdullah bin Nasser bin Khalifa Al Thani, the Prime Minister of Qatar, the other owner, along with Iran, of the world's largest natural gas reserves (South Pars, aka North Dome, in the Arabian aka Persian Gulf, all depending on your perspective), seems to have turned from the Anglo-American-Saudi side, to the Iranian-Russian side as well. I anticipate that Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (or his successor) of Saudi Arabia, the lynch pin of OPEC and of the Petro-Dollar, will join this rebellion, within the year.
    Last edited by Paul; 15th September 2017 at 00:49.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    .
    On a separate, but related, note - here's one major consequence of converting the world's financial records to distributed blockchain ledger technology:
    Moving Forex to the Blockchain.
    Individual nations, their Treasuries and Central Banks, and their largest banks, will no longer control the value of their various national or regional currencies ... the power of the Deepest State, whoever they are, can overwhelm all, in seconds.

    ... and that folks, not yet another national currency such as China's RMB being promoted to the status of a world reserve currency, not gold and silver, per se, not some crypto-currency such as Bitcoin and not SDR's on steroids, might be the real story behind the Economist cover of 1988:
    Each of RMB, gold, silver and SDR's will have a role to play, of course, as will gas and oil and the US Dollar ... but a fundamental change in the dynamics of the global currency markets due to the use of distributed ledger block chain technology could become the key to understanding the dynamics of the "new world monetary system", coming soon to a planet near you.
    Last edited by Paul; 15th September 2017 at 00:56.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    I anticipate that Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (or his successor) of Saudi Arabia, the lynch pin of OPEC and of the Petro-Dollar, will join this rebellion, within the year.
    Joseph P. Farrell spends this week's News and Views from the Nefarium looking into this, based on this Zerohedge report: King Of Saudi Arabia To Visit Russia In October:

    Farrell finds this report provides evidence of a very major sea change in world affairs, as Saudi Arabia moves out of Anglo-American sphere into the Chinese-Russian sphere, to participate in a variety of economic, military and energy endeavors.

    Farrell is coming at this from a different perspective than I am ... there's nothing about monetary systems or distributed blockchain ledgers in his report. But his conclusions align with mine. Saudi Arabia, the lynch pin of OPEC and of the Petro-Dollar, is apparently leaving that role that it has held for the last half century.

    Venezuela's Maduro may be the first leader of a major oil exporter in the Americas to leave the Petro Dollar, and live to tell about it.

    But he has company in Iran and Russia ... and with Saudi Arabia may soon have more company.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Since there is no Plunge Protection Team for bitcoin, who will catch the falling knife after 40% price drop in September. My take.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
    My blog: http://grayseconomy.com

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    Since there is no Plunge Protection Team for bitcoin, who will catch the falling knife after 40% price drop in September. My take.
    my take: buy now - it'll be $10k by xmas.
    the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated --- Gandhi

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Dimon is the fraud, not bitcoin. The very fact that this dirt bag is out slamming it shows that the banking elite is not positioned to co opt the crypto currency market. They like the fiat system they have in place.

    I will continue to add to my position incrementally as I look at Bitcoin etherium lite-coin etc as long term investments, not as trading instruments.

    regarding Maduro, I believe he has an ace in the hole and will not suffer the same fate of those who tried to balk the system previously.
    "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..."
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Guess who is a member of the Enterprise Etherium Alliance?

    https://entethalliance.org/members/

    scroll down and you will see JP Morgan.

    *edit: and the Executive Director of EEA is Suresh Shetty from JP Morgan https://entethalliance.org/about/*
    Last edited by Callista; 15th September 2017 at 15:52.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    I'm not saying I know anything. But bitcoin is up $700 since I posted my blog. As I said just below $3,ooo was going to shake out all the newbie investors and build a floor.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Bitcoin will go to $13,800 by February according to Clif High...

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by mgray (here)
    I'm not saying I know anything. But bitcoin is up $700 since I posted my blog. As I said just below $3,ooo was going to shake out all the newbie investors and build a floor.
    Dang ... with a golden touch like that ... I hope you remember who your friends were, once you retire from ordinary life to join the super-wealthy .
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Farrell is coming at this from a different perspective than I am ... there's nothing about monetary systems or distributed blockchain ledgers in his report. But his conclusions align with mine. Saudi Arabia, the lynch pin of OPEC and of the Petro-Dollar, is apparently leaving that role that it has held for the last half century.

    Venezuela's Maduro may be the first leader of a major oil exporter in the Americas to leave the Petro Dollar, and live to tell about it.

    But he has company in Iran and Russia ... and with Saudi Arabia may soon have more company.
    Jim Willie posted this article about three weeks ago, also outlining this birth of a new oil consortium, led by Russia, bypassing the Petro-Dollar, and including or potentially including an increasing number of major oil exporting nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, Nigeria, Angola, Qatar, Iran, and Mexico, as well as including, of course, the world's largest importer of petroleum, China.

    Venezuela's Maduro just might survive his departure from the Petro-Dollar, though he's still playing a high stakes poker game, against a very treacherous opponent.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Thanks for your thoughts Paul. I do agree that the intentions of the “elite bastards” (as you termed them) is to shift this dynamic natural world of wonder into a controlled environment, much like a matrix/simulation/AR/AI type of “reality”. (We are not there yet… thankfully, but closing fast) Key to that process is dealing with the controlled exchange of goods and services and energy through ‘money’ … the grease or the hydraulic fluid (I like the analogy).

    We are all too familiar with the other components of that shift and transition: chemtrails, urbanization, genetically modified foods, fluoride, vaccines, religion, education, justice system, history lessons, science, remote neural monitoring and control, weather control, entertainment, mind control, etc etc etc… but you bring up the money issue which is appreciated.

    I personally think that some of the misunderstandings about the subject of Bitcoin and blockchain has more to do about the timing of unfoldment. Like you, I do believe that blockchain technology is here to stay because it provides the method to electronically modulate and control money more efficiently. That process however will require a sequence of events to unfold.

    I think that Bitcoin, Ethereum etc are only the vehicles by which the public gets introduced to blockchain technologies. The real engines of world trade, ledgers, money and clearing systems are likely either being built now or already have been using blockchain Vx.x (or morphed with something else). This is the long term goal.

    For me however, the interesting part is the transition in the short term. It is clear, to me at least, that the US dollar will be trashed. The great Alan Greenspan has foretold it heheheh. I think it is imminent. Before the new world system arises out of the ashes, the old must fall. I think now is a buying opportunity for Bitcoin and Ethereum. Yes mgray there is tremendous volatility in these markets but so was there in the early days of the NYSE when everybody were newbies. Those that are trading cryptocurrencies are mostly those geeks with little experience in trading. They sell in panic mode like every human in history without the benefit of computer trades and safety measures. Once the dollar goes, I think there will be panic buying in gold, silver and ‘established’ cryptos like Bitcoin and Ethereum. I don’t think we are near the bubble that it will be. As I posted elsewhere, less than 2% of my sphere of acquaintances has even heard of Bitcoin. They will, I think, after the dollar crashes. Don’t get me wrong though… I don’t see these cryptos as saviours, only an opportunity to benefit in the short term. I WILL be selling before regulations and the ‘Phoenix’ of the new world money system gets introduced and Bitcoin and Ethereum are devalued as a result.

    I personally see Clif High as entertainment. He is an exceptionally creative person with a great photographic memory. I view his webbots only as an attempt for him to bring some credibility to his imagination. Like a fortune teller uses a crystal ball. He has never shared the technology (of word mining and deconvoluting the internet). He admits that the interpretation is more of an art than a science. If one believes in something, that one sees the results and proof everywhere, especially in one’s own brainchild. I salute him however for educating a new generation on the historical practices of the Cabal.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    .
    Starting at about 12:05 into the following interview, Jim Willie says that his "inside sources" tell him that the NSA might be planning to do a "body slam" of Bitcoin, and that this is why China is pushing its citizens away from crypto-currency by closing exchanges and blocking initial coin offerings (ICO's), as a way to protect its people and minimize the impact of this body slam.

    Separately, but actually quite connected, I notice that part of the follow up news to the very nasty, massive hack of Verifax, which essentially puts every "banked" American at risk of identify theft and credit fraud, is that the hackers are now supposedly demanding $2.6 million Bitcoin ransom.

    My suspicion is that this Bitcoin ransom demand is part of a deliberate effort by the NSA and/or similar organizations to make Bitcoin out to be the "bad guy". This could be part of the setup for the NSA body slam of Bitcoin that China is trying to get its people more out of the way of.

    Many Americans are at risk of being deeply harmed by this Experian hack, and blaming Bitcoin as the means by which the hackers thought that they could annonymously get away with millions of ransom would be an excellent basis for applying some sudden, Draconian, measure to Bitcoin and similar crypto-currencies that would make it practically impossible for Americans (and others, to the extent that the NSA can reach that far) to move money in and out of Bitcoin.

    The actual ransom demanded, $2.6 million, is probably quite a bit less than that hacked Experian data should be worth, and is far less than what the various lawsuits against Experian will be seeking. That $2.6 million amount is too small. There is also no way that I can see that the hackers could prove that they destroyed the hacked data, if the ransom were paid. So all told, I suspect that this ransom news story is fake news.

    In short ... while I think that distributed blockchain ledgers have a long and promising future in the "new world monetary and financial system", I also think that Bitcoin and similar crypto-currencies are part of the early "Wild West" of this technology, and that "the law" will come "riding to the rescue", to save us all from the crimes and lawlessness of these crypto-currencies.

    This explains, in my view, Jamie Dimon's coming out and calling Bitcoin a "fraud". Dimon was laying the ground work in the American mindset for this NSA body slam of Bitcoin.

    Unlike Jim Willie, I don't think that the motives of the Chinese government are so altrustic ... to save their people from an NSA crypto-currency body slam. Rather I think that China is in on this game too, as another agent of the elite bastards; it's just that China is getting there by a different path, more suited for China. China is simply banning the current ICO's and crypto exchanges, and will institute its own, Chinese style, replacements in due time. These replacements will have more central control and will not allow annonymous wealth transfer.
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