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Thread: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

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    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    I could be proved wrong and eat my words, but this Distributed Ledger Technology, in whatever form, strikes me as more smoke and mirrors and a variation of a Ponzi scheme. Those who get in on the ground floor, i.e, the insiders and special interests, "make bank", while those who come along later lose, or make little, if anything at all.

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    I could be proved wrong and eat my words, but this Distributed Ledger Technology, in whatever form, strikes me as more smoke and mirrors and a variation of a Ponzi scheme. Those who get in on the ground floor, i.e, the insiders and special interests, "make bank", while those who come along later lose, or make little, if anything at all.
    Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) is a different way to implement a database. Rather than having one "master copy" that is controlled and protected by a "trusted" agent (such as your bank or your county real estate assessor's office), instead the database (at least key parts) is/are visible and shared and updated by multiple parties, at arm's length.

    DLT is essentially the migration to the Internet of databases, making them distributed even in their updates, just as the Web was the migration to the Internet of information sharing.

    Whether or not DLT is used for Ponzi schemes is the same sort of question as whether or not an SQL database is used to implement the record tracking of a Ponzi scheme. Both can be so used. Both have been or will be so used. Not all uses of either DLT or SQL are Ponzi schemes, however.

    My above argument is a variant of the "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

    Databases don't defraud people. People defraud people. It matters not to that calculus whether that database is centralized (such as SQL) or distributed (such as DLT).

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    On the other hand, the current method of implementing crypto-currencies is pretty much exactly as you described, Satori.

    The implementers "make bank", and reap the rewards. This is not a long term stable basis for a monetary system. Rather, as you suggest, I agree that it's another variant of Ponzi schemes.

    I expect that future use of DLT technology will be for transacting central bank issued currencies, which currencies will hold as much value, for as long, as currently issued central bank issued currencies do (typically between 1 and 100 years, give or take, minus ongoing inflation.)

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Joe Rogan & Dr. Ben Goertzel on Blockchain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cshgMRGcc3s


    Thanks paul guys in this thread for opening my eyes and right now i'm focus more behind the technology DLT, how it apply to other things...

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    An interesting treatise on Bitcoin (he won't have anything to do with it) from the 'real Wolf on Wall Street', Jordan Belfort. He wrote the autobiographical book on which the Leonardo DiCaprio film was based. (The reality was worse!)

    He's a reformed character now, and in this interesting interview he's asked about Bitcoin. His summary is that it's a perfect storm for pump-and-dump manipulation, and he goes into detail why, comparing it with the 'tulip mania' in the 17th century. He states he's never been more sure of anything. That section is 14:32—29:05.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th September 2019 at 12:18.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's right-hand man who lived through the Great Depression and who has no doubt has witnessed more scams and financial bubbles than most of us, is similarly scathing about Bitcoin, calling it "worthless artificial gold":



    [By the way, I love the banter and wiseassery that goes on in these Gates-Munger-Buffet interviews ]



    Last edited by happyuk; 17th September 2019 at 20:29.

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    United States Avalon Member thalox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    I do believe that btc bitcoin is a scam as it is very speculative. it is not the original ledger technology that was created from the whitepaper. I think most are missing this point. most everyone are being swindled. if you read the code and white paper, the only one that still holds true to the technology i think is bsv. once btc implemented SegWit, they took the btc ticker (which is only a ticker symbol) but bsv ended up keeping the original code and rules of the original whitepaper. people are chasing the wrong crypto. I have seen alot of programs that are being built on the blockchain network using the original code from the original bitcoin. the "BTC" Ticker that is in the $10k price range isnt building anyhting that i can find. it seems its only speculative trading tool. Either way, crypto as a whole i think is a way to track everything and monitor our new technocracy that is coming or may already be here.

    just my 2 satoshi's.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

    Quote Posted by thalox (here)
    I do believe that btc bitcoin is a scam as it is very speculative. it is not the original ledger technology that was created from the whitepaper. I think most are missing this point. most everyone are being swindled.
    Yes. (Caveat! My knowledge is limited, and I'm no financial guru. ) But it does seem to me it's merely a speculative investment vehicle, based on (a) scarcity and (b) a great deal of promotional publicity; but not backed by anything real. Its existence is purely digital.

    And it's not really a proper currency. It CAN be used to buy some things, but it's actually rarely ever used to do that. The overview by 'Wolf of Wall Street' Jordan Belfort, which I cited above, made a great deal of sense to me.

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