Bitcoin, the war on cash, Clif High, and the NSA's long range plans

[apokalypse]

why people who invest or into other form of investment like Stock or companies startup not into crypto investment? they seems to against or not into it due to price increase so big and gonna collapse and always bring stuff that mainstream people or media have talked about bitcoin. I'm no investor but confidence invest on crypto when i know about investment making money beginning of the year.

[Carmody]

Bitcoin is still dropping, the damage is a solid +25% since it's peak of $20k. down to $14.8k as of this writing and it's not done yet. It took down all the altcoins at the same time.

No corner is safe in that world right now. These things I say about Bitcoin and 'safety zones' are going to be taken very seriously after this correction is over.

This occurred, of course, at the tail end of a mercury retrograde. I personally knew better and was fully aware at the onset of my involvement in attempting to put some skin in there and start playing.

I got off the crypto bus with a $2k bundle of cash converted to coins. I was not just hit by a bus as I got into it, I had the entire bus full of gasoline thrown at me. Even though I made all the right moves and stayed right on top of things, I still did not do any better than dropping by over $700. And I am by no means a dumb unobservant person, with a limited scope of awareness. I just know little about the intricacies of the marketplace in situ, is all.

It had to be trial by fire, in order to learn what this market is all about. how the thing moves in it's actual micro and macro motions, how they connect, what the infrastructure of it is, under any given circumstance, and so on.

I ran back onto the bus, finally... covered with cuts and clothes nearly burnt off, with about $1300 left in my little stash. Hard hard lessons, that will stick. Still not discouraged, though. I'm learning what to do and what not to do. It's the horrible lessons that stick. The trick is to do something positive with them. To me, I've learned the hardest lessons of all, under the most difficult circumstances that can exist in the given equation. And at a very small cost of a lousy $700, even though I could ill afford to lose the cash. I've dealt with the market when the market is at it's worst, which is a precious, precious thing to have as an experience... Thank the gods it was done with so little loss. My first day in stepping out of the safety end zone, the market is hit by several things at once. Things I had no idea were happening and all connected to things I could not see. Best laid plans all died right in their cribs before their first steps.

The mercury retrograde has played out very solidly in this sordid little correction saga and all the ancillary stuff going on. Everything got botched, by everyone. Mercury demands error be in the equation and since the equation itself is indifferent and invariably correct, the 'give' in the interaction had to be in the people. Mercury retro ends tomorrow (22 December) and things will begin to right themselves after that.

Edit: Bitcoin hit $14.3k as I finished writing this. $500 shaved off just in that time.

[Wind]

A betting man would say that right now is the best time to buy Bitcoin... It's just having a Christmas knockdown and in January it will rise again.

It's value will skyrocket next year or so I hear. Cryptocurrency is the future and it is already here.

Unless... They decide to artificially bring it down for whatever reason, but we haven't seen it so far even though for years the experts have claimed that the bubble would soon burst. Yeah, right. What if the Fiat money (such as dollar or Euro) goes down first? Think about that. I only blame myself that I didn't jump on the bus a year ago, but I don't think it's still too late...

Invest what you can afford to lose.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DYEHkSKAJYY

[Carmody]

I like to drive the car from not just the back seat, but from under a tarp in the trailer being towed by the car. To get this done even when the driver has no idea what is going on.

I like to do things from the most difficult circumstances possible. Otherwise there is no challenge, to me. I like things to be easy, yes but I feel guilty and as if I have cheated the world, if I go that road. Ie, I was born practically in the middle of a beating. I was nearly ejected 5 months into the pregnancy, if we go back further. Nearly drowned when I was 5 months old. And so on.

If it's not difficult, I'm not interested.

So I end up taking it head on in the middle of a beating of the market. Like a 10 year old in the hallway of a building full of people-that just caught on fire. Stampede. War zone, things going every which way.

Ie, two lives back I was a captain in the southern forces... that was used as bait to the given north army in question (US civil war), every chance that was available. Early versions of advanced warfare tactics, and I was not just the guinea pig, I was the one who made it work by improvising while being forced into the barrel of a fired gun. * (the ultimate 'here, hold my beer, I'll do it')

Just another day on the job. After a while, the simple lessons are all over and all that is left is the hard ones.

Normal is for average... and anyone can be average. If one wants to be exceptional then learn to take it on the chin when sitting in your grave. And come back from it. When you know all the easy lessons, all that is left is those extremes... and from them comes a potent wide parallax of a view. The price is as it always is. A price that is equal to the gains and the view/experience.

So, in I went...

~~~~~
* We wonder if such a life recall is true. Subtle answers can come. My good friend of 25+ years gave me his father's jacket. He said I reminded him of his father. His father was fighting the Russians all the way up until 1952. Long story.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Carmody (here)
The futures market is tied to a system that is 100x bigger, and is chock full of snakes and animals in suits, with a 300 year long history of development and inbreeding.

Agreed - the futures market will play with Bitcoin (that specific crypto-currency) like my cat playing with a wounded bug. Bitcoin technology is too cumbersome, it's main holders (HODL'ers -- Hold On for Dear Life) too naive, and it's core support in bed rock institutions, regulations and capital flows far too weak.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Coinomi's emergence, combined with Shapeshift and Changelly, the three growing exponentially as an ecosystem, is set to turn bitcoin to dust in the next short while.

An alternative to Coinomi is Exodus. Both provide relatively user friendly interfaces handle converting between the various cryptocurrencies.

Exodus interfaces to Shapeshift, whereas Coinomi interfaces to both Shapeshift and Changelly. Exodus runs on a desktop (Windows, Mac or Linux) PC. Coinomi runs on an Android mobile.

I am aware of two kinds of crypto exchanges:

1. Those crypto exchanges that include the ability to transfer funds either way between both cryptos and "real" currencies such as the US Dollar, Euro, or Yen.
2. Those crypto exchanges that don't include that ability (*), but only support shifting between various crypto-currencies.

(*) (except perhaps supporting buying more cryptocoins using credit cards)

Examples of the first kind include Coinbase, Gemini, Kraken, Bitflyer, and others. In the past, such exchanges have also included Mt Gox and Youbit (a major Korean exchange that went up in flames this week.) Due to (1) various onerous financial regulations, led by the US Know Your Customer (KYC) regulations, (2) overwhelming demand of new customers trying to move into cryptos, and (3) various hacks, fraud and security failures, these exchanges have been and continue to be somewhat risky and difficult to deal with.

I typically plan to spend a couple of weeks to get signed up, verified and authorized to trade on any such exchange, due to overloaded, unreliable and complicated documentation requirements. I recommend not holding any non-trivial amount of money on any such exchange any longer than necessary. I abandon all hope of financial privacy from the authorities when I work with any of these exchanges.

I have used various exchanges of the first kind above to convert between cryptocurrencies and US Dollars, and to transfer money between my US Dollar denominated bank accounts and these exchanges.

Examples of the second kind are Shapeshift and Changelly. Being an old-school, desktop PC, guy, I am currently using Exodus, which uses Shapeshift under the covers. But I can only shift between various crypto-currencies with this tool, not move funds between cryptos and the currency of the realm, US Dollars in my case. The ability to get Exodus up and running easily was worth it to me a couple of weeks ago, when I sensed that Bitcoin was overpriced relative to various alt-currencies and that it was time for me to shift some of my itsy-bitsy stash from Bitcoin to other coins. I was able to move quickly, and avoid some losses.

The hardware wallets, such as Trezor and KeepKey that support multiple kinds of crypto-currency, as well as this second kind of exchange software such as Exodus and Coinomi all store your transaction history in what's called Hierarchical Deterministic wallets that follow the BIP 0044 standard. This provides a way of recording a series of transactions, including the private keys, that were made on various crypto currency blockchains, all under control of a master secret key that you control.

Posted by Carmody (here)
The move to put bitcoin on the futures market will very likely end bitcoin

In my estimation, Bitcoin is being weakened not just by the futures market players, but also because it's way too slow and expensive to handle the transaction load that will be required in the next round of the expansion of cryptocurrencies into the general populace and economy.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Thus the bitcoin clones attempting to emerge and push bitcoin off the stage with faster lower cost transaction times and the built in room to expand.

Yes - agreed. Currently I'm guessing that Litecoin will be the higher volume, lower cost, crypto-currency that replaces Bitcoin in that capacity. This Zerohedge article, Is This Why Charlie Lee Sold His Litecoin? speculates that there may be an upcoming association of Facebook and Litecoin, and that that may be the reason that Litecoin's creator, Charlie Lee, just announced that he had completed selling all his Litecoin holdings.

[apokalypse]

Posted by Carmody (here)

bitcoin's overt dominance ends tonight, so pump and dump schemes with bitcoin, to crash and control the market, that begins it end tonight.

Bitcoin dominance will fall below the mental threshold of 50% of the crypto coin market, tonight. As of this writing it is 50.3%, it was 50.6% a few hours before.

What this means is that the market is about to explode and be out of bitcoin dominance and bitcoin control.

Trying to crash bitcoin, will only cause a thousand other coins to emerge in equal shares of dominance.

it's happening right now. Literally, right now. Big crashes in bitcoin will cause the financial flow to move away from bitcoin into the other board leaders.

This began happening today.

The target is going scattered and wide, if they try.... they'll only be dominating an empty bucket.

It is becoming safe to get out of bitcoin as a central crypto currency for 'safety' reasons. So the central point of focus for market manipulation is almost gone, already. It is eroding...by the minute. Literally.

I'd expect that as a point of record, that this will be solidly real, a known thing, approx 2 weeks from now.

Jesus christ...i think you right, seems like BTC dropping 50% soon. It seems a trend right now moving to altcoins.

will BTC collapse or only drop the price goes to altcoin as you point out? i feel bad for a friend who into BTC right now still believe gonna go up...is there a good news?

[apokalypse]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by apokalypse (here)
Paul, what are trying to do with Crypto especially Bitcoin? i can see and few can replace current fiat currency/banks but just hated how it used as investment.

"what are trying to do" ... what are who trying to do ... you, me, the bankers, the elite bastards, the noobie crypto investor, the CIA, the NSA, ... ?

i'm mean what elites agenda for cryptocurrency? i believe elites behind crypto especially bitcoin but not sure what elites trying to do...

[Carmody]

Youbit (a major Korean exchange that went up in flames this week.)

So that was what was behind the move to the secure anonymous coins in Korea, the move that drove those few well known ones up by 100%, overall. Dash and one other, IIRC.. Monero, etc. I had heard the buyers were in Korea, but not the why part of it.

I have exodus on my desktop and like to kick my feet up and watch the tickers, but the fun or necessary part is to be man-portable. Thus Coinomi. Coinomi will end up being a big player in the altcoin market. And the altcoin market will be the part that makes this really take off. IMO, of course, but I feel that this is self evident.

I'm not interested in looking at slow moving numbers slowly getting bigger. I'm interested in the 10-20-30% an hour stuff. That sort of hyper game requires a man portable interface.

I'm entering the market with a paperclip, while they are shooting at me, and my clothes are on fire....and...well, feels like a normal start...

(I just checked, it is all in so much free fall right now.... that the charts can't keep up with the actual numbers.)

$700 of my losses came from not being man portable. I gained some back, twice, before I gave up on desktop systems.

[Flash]

just getting quite interested these days, thank to you guys and a friend of mine.

We have been looking at blockchain HIVE from Vancouver selling shares on the TSX money. They have been very active lately. What do you think of blockchain investments and HiVE activities, if any of you are aware of it.

I will have my friend look at this thread here, she will be quite interested I am pretty sure.

What my friend sent me:

H I V E‏ @HiveBlockchain 



HiveBlockchain pleased to be featured alongside sap, accenture, hitachiglobal and overstock in the first Nasdaq Blockchain Index hain-index/ 

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
i'm mean what elites agenda for cryptocurrency? i believe elites behind crypto especially bitcoin but not sure what elites trying to do...

I believe that the elite intend, over the next few decades, to replace the paper, person-to-person, and digitized variants thereof that we use now for contracts, transactions, stocks (the markets, the certificates and the stockholder voting), bonds, debt, mortgages, property titles, currency, banking, futures, citizen voting, etc, etc, with distributed ledgers.

Essentially, the double entry bookkeeping of the last six hundred (at least) years is being replaced by distributed ledger technology (DLT), in which each party to an arrangement can view, maintain and verify a ledger that all parties in the arrangement can access and modify, in accordance with some specified permissions.

DLT (1) is much more resillient to undesired (by the system's controllers) fraud and errors , (2) supports civilization wide surveillance and control to a very fine grain level of detail, (3) will become much more easily networked across the planet and at light speed to more distant activity, and (4) allows for the equal participation by humans, bots and other computerized entities, from your thermostat to super computers to off-planet colonies and mining robotics.

[apokalypse]

@charliebilello Bitcoin has declined 34% over the past 4 days, its 5th 30+% correction of the year. $BTC.X


what's a correction? is that true people said about correction? how can it be a correction for crypto?

[Carmody]

My take on it so far:

It's growing slower than the rest of the coins this time (bitcoin). Or maybe it did the same in earlier times. Bot traders are seemingly the ones accruing value into bitcoin from the rest of the coins.

I'm learning. To go from one coin to the next in a swap, one sells when it is still going up or peaking, into a coin that is increasing. The 'float' time of the transaction becomes a gain across the 'spread' (dead time waiting for the transaction to finalize). Your take in coin is finalized initially but the transaction time gives you breathing space. This is the stuff that kills you when you try to trade your way out of a sharp market decline. Always know a quick passage back to safe ground into your local official currency holding pen. Then buy back in at the bottom. I missed this bottom, I was asleep, I was worn out. dang. But I caught some of it. These are the kind of hard lessons I learned.

It may be that in time it will all go back to bitcoin dominance and then when it drops below 50% again, then the big splashdown occurs again.

the bot traders seem to want bitcoin dominance. I've been watching the bots closely. On a small trading platform, they are easy to spot. You can see them automatically adjust their buy sell, their published buy sell bids, and the time they hold them. It does not matter what the price on the given trade platform is, they go by the most accurate and timely reports, even if the given trading board has different numbers. Then you see them do a small or tiny buy to check the spread, the confirmation times of the moment, then they adjust their hold on the buy sell bids. They eat you on this and the arbitrage of your local (or chosen) board errors and differences. They are literally machine code designed to vacuum up all human inefficiencies. They are there to rape the few humans who interface with the big coins.

Stay in the dirt with the rest of the humans and you can make money. Stay out of the bot zones, they control the spread. The only thing you generally can do in the bot zones, is be what is known as a 'holder'. One just goes for the ride and tries to adjust, like a bird hitching a ride on an elephant's back.

coinomi turns out to have fairly accurate numbers and the most accurate I've seen so far, is coming from CoinMarketCap.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Carmody (here)
One just goes for the ride and tries to adjust, like a bird hitching a ride on an elephant's back.

... or a cowbird, picking up the bugs in the droppings and dirt stirred up by the cattle .

Posted by Carmody (here)
the most accurate [numbers] I've seen so far, is coming from CoinMarketCap.

Coinmarketcap.com is my preferred source of crypto prices and charts (though they are broken at the moment - unable to load data from their server.)

[ThePythonicCow]

.
They won't (future tense) or didn't (past tense) ring a bell at the market top, but unlike the bitcoin fan boys, I'm figuring that this current bitcoin craze is a way to fund crypto startups and technology development, and a way to introduce cryptocurrencies and related distributed digital assets technology to the wider public. I'm confident that none of the current cryptocurrencies of any size will last long.

In my estimation, cryptos aren't money. They are a particular use of a primitive implementation of what will become the dominant way to track, store, and transfer money and other such resources, properties, taxes, fees, licenses, contracts, debts, command and control decisions, surveillance data, etc.

However the current mesmerizing price action of the last year in Bitcoin and other major alt-coins is doing a nice job of distracting us from the basic nature of this technology.

Clif High is doing a good job of distracting us as well. I like listening to him; he's my kind of smart old geek. But he's working a psyop for some such outfit as the CIA or NSA, and probably knows it. (That's why Clif High and NSA are named in this thread's title.)

===

In the longer term, a civilization that spans a solar system, not just a single planet, needs not only the technology to extract energy on a solar scale, but also needs a "nervous system", able to coordinate actions, resources, trade, finance, command, control and surveillance, across a solar scale.

Future generations of distributed ledger technology (DLT), resembling I suspect what I see in Hashgraph (see my Post #194, above), will provide a core technology of that solar system spanning nervous system.

Robotics, 3D printing, and long suppressed energy and transportation technologies will be other key parts of a solar system spanning Civilization 2.0.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
I'm confident that none of the current cryptocurrencies of any size will last long.

That's not to say the current cryptocurrencies can't all go up another factor of ten over the next year or two, before their big crash. Nor is it to say that Bitcoin can't crash to virtually zero by tomorrow morning.

Actual major tops are notoriously difficult to call.

That's why my usual tactic is to play with one foot in each camp, betting some on it crashing soon, and some on it continuing to run higher.

For example, every time it hits a new high that's nicely above the previous high and towards the top of its trading range, skim off say 10 or 20 per-cent of however much you've gained, since the previous time you skimmed some profits.

Leave the rest in and let it run, unless you need the money or unless your overall balance of assets gets way out of balance from what you're comfortable with or would prefer. Resist the temptation to "run for the hills" on each down turn, unless that's a hard reason to understand that it's game over for that asset class.

Be content to get half of what you might have gotten, had you had the mythical perfect crystal ball, but substantially increase the chances of getting that half, even though you will only know what was the ultimate peak in hindsight.

[apokalypse]

In August 2013 on the super popular site of Reddit appeared the post of user Luka_Magnotta, who called himself a time traveler. He claimed that he was sending a message from 2025 to warn about what the integration of the crypto-currency into the economy would lead to. The author leads the courses of the first and the foremost Bitcoin cryptocurrency: $ 1,000 in 2015 (in fact Bitcoin cost about $ 250 a coin at that time) and $ 10,000 in 2017. This "prediction" came true: in mid-November, Bitcoin reached $ 10,000, and today he overcame the mark of 11,000.

https://www.techzuma.com/2017/12/tim...our-years.html
Original Thread: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...e_here_to_beg/

just interesting a post so called time traveller...BS or not but aware, or even take something out of it.

[Flash]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
In August 2013 on the super popular site of Reddit appeared the post of user Luka_Magnotta, who called himself a time traveler. He claimed that he was sending a message from 2025 to warn about what the integration of the crypto-currency into the economy would lead to. The author leads the courses of the first and the foremost Bitcoin cryptocurrency: $ 1,000 in 2015 (in fact Bitcoin cost about $ 250 a coin at that time) and $ 10,000 in 2017. This "prediction" came true: in mid-November, Bitcoin reached $ 10,000, and today he overcame the mark of 11,000.

https://www.techzuma.com/2017/12/tim...our-years.html
Original Thread: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...e_here_to_beg/

just interesting a post so called time traveller...BS or not but aware, or even take something out of it.

A weird thing, a time traveller having the name of a gruesome killer now making life for having killed and put into pieces a young Chinese student few years ago. His real name: Luka Rocco Magnotta. I wonder if they have the internet access in jail. One thing for sure, I would not believe anything someone with this name says.

Luka Rocco Magnotta (born Eric Clinton Kirk Newman; July 24, 1982) is a Canadian murderer, convicted of killing and dismembering Lin Jun, a Chinese international student, before mailing Jun's hands and feet to elementary schools and federal political party offices.[9] This act gained international notoriety. After a video depicting the murder was posted online in May 2012, Magnotta fled Canada, becoming the subject of an Interpol Red Notice and prompting an international manhunt. He was apprehended at an Internet café in Berlin while reading news about himself in June 2012.[9] After eight days of deliberations, a jury convicted him of first-degree murder on December 23, 2014.[10] He was previously sought by animal rights groups for uploading videos of himself killing kittens.[11]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luka_Magnotta

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
In my estimation, cryptos aren't money. They are a particular use of a primitive implementation of what will become the dominant way to track, store, and transfer money and other such resources, properties, taxes, fees, licenses, contracts, debts, command and control decisions, surveillance data, etc.

That's the key concept.

Cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin are an early manifestation of "shared data".

We have so far, with our various computers that are in our hands, on our desks, in our thermostats, in our server racks and in "the cloud", and with all the various networks and Internets connecting them, a variety of powerful ways to collect, dispense, compute, store, search and transmit data.

Presently someone (well, some computer) owns each piece of that data and controls access to and updates to that data (within the limits of their ability to secure the data.) Essentially every piece of data out there at present has a single owner who is, or should be, responsible for it.

A key missing piece in all this is the ability for multiple parties to share and update a common view of some store of data, such as who owes what to whom or who holds what assets on behalf of another party or who commits to doing what for whom else when.

That view and updates to that view must be (will soon come to be)

• fast (approaching the speed of light across whatever distances are involved),
• efficient (approaching the cost of sensing, transmitting, searching, computing and storing similar quantities of data that a single party owns and controls), and
• robust in the face of the expected variety of failures and attacks (both intentional and accidental, and by both external parties and active participants.)

This is about developing the technology and infrastructure to provide fast, efficient, robust, reliable, consistent and coherent data sharing, updates, input, output, searching and computation ... across networks that span the planet and will soon span the solar system.

The sorts of problems that I have focused much of my career on, since the 1970's, involving reliable multi-processing within a single computer containing multiple, cooperating, reliable, more or less identical CPU cores are now being solved on a planetary scale (and soon a solar system scale), across a changing, heterogeneous, variety of computers spanning a wide range of capabilities and capacities, given only that those computers sharing responsibility for some particilar piece of shared data agree to make a best effort to use the same protocol to handle that data.

The nervous system of Type II Civilization is being formed, and it's not just about energy, as the Kardashev Scale would have it. It's also about data ... the nervous system of a civilization.

===

P.S. -- Bitcoin is not money. It's a prototype of an early version of the technology to robustly share and update data across the Internet (just one use of which will be with The New World Monetary System.)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
... and will soon span the solar system.
...
The nervous system of Type II Civilization is being formed, and it's not just about energy, as the Kardashev Scale would have it. It's also about data ... the nervous system of a civilization.

Catherine Austin Fitts, looking at this from her very different perspective from a career in high finance and government, is coming to a similar conclusion. Start at the 11:36 mark in the following video to her take on how Mr. Global is moving us to what she calls "3.0", to make our push into space much more overt:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=00JwQkINIaw

(There's also a mention of Bill Ryan at the 2:30 mark of the above video.)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
That view and updates to that [shared data] view must be (will soon come to be)

• fast (approaching the speed of light across whatever distances are involved),
• efficient (approaching the cost of sensing, transmitting, searching, computing and storing similar quantities of data that a single party owns and controls), and
• robust in the face of the expected variety of failures and attacks (both intentional and accidental, and by both external parties and active participants.)

The Hashgraph protocol shows us the way forward to what can, and I expect will, be the key underlying synchronization protocol used to manage such shared data.

The mathematics of the partial orderings and the synchronization of state across multiple processors, that are parts of this protocol, have been areas of primary interest to me for a half a century, in a variety of forms, from pure mathematics, to computer science theory, to practical work architecting and developing various original systems in this area.

My "hobby" of studying economics and monetary systems for the last couple of decades also comes into play here, providing me with what I hope is an improved ability to separate out the "money" aspects of Bitcoin from the underlying shared data synchronization protocol implemented by Bitcoin.

Yet another "hobby" of mine, for several decades now, as a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory nutcase, provides me with what I hope is an improved ability to identify and call out intelligence operations designed to manipulate humanity this way or that.

My conclusions, as stated above:

Bitcoin is both a psyop to help move humanity to digital currency, and the initial (rather primitive and limited) prototype of the shared data synchronization protocol which will underlay the "nervous" system of a human civilization that soon expands to span our local solar system.

Hashgraph (see some of my earlier posts above) provides a much improved version of this shared data protocol, suitable for providing fast, efficient and robust data sharing across our planet and across the (soon to be "our") solar system.

The New World Monetary System will be but one of many applications using such a shared data protocol.