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Thread: Are personal experiences proof?

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Are personal experiences proof?

    We've all heard those amazing testimonies but do we need more?...


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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Very irritating to listen to.

    Sounds to me rather like a project from a first-year philosophy student. (If so, he may learn more quite soon...)

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    The question is an interesting one but as Bill said, his presentation does remind me of philosophy student.

    Kind of reminds me of the guy in the bar in Good Will Hunting.


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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    We've all heard those amazing testimonies but do we need more?...
    Hey Mojo! I think this is a great topic for discussion and it could also go in many different directions. To start things off, could you elaborate or rephrase your question please?

    I will respond to the question in your post, but I apologize if I have misinterpreted it: For many things that I have experienced I would like to hear more from people about their personal experiences. Hearing other people's experiences helps me as I try to understand my own experiences.

    Something that I realized while watching the video is that many people are using the phrase "personal experience" very loosely. Many people use the term to support the fact that they have either learned or experienced it first-hand. I wouldn't interpret it as something that they experienced while they were alone - which is the way I think the video is presenting it. I would use the term "personal experience" for things that I have experienced alone or with other people.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 11th August 2017 at 20:31. Reason: fixed quote formatting

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    I agree with Bill and joeecho and Patient, but my own personal experience also tells me he is stoned, on something. Personal experiences are the only truth, IMHO. Our experience is ALL we have, nothing more. Everything else is subjective in some way, or filtered through the moods of those who pass it to us. Also he's difficult to watch, his eyes are really bloodshot, I would be annoyed to have him over for dinner, he's a boring know-it-all, his cup is completely full. His last parting premise that by him visualizing or wishing us to subscribe to his channel thus makes it so, counters his original argument. lol. Good judgement only comes from experience, experience only comes from bad judgement...

    Give him time, hopefully he'll sober up, cut his hair, put his good brain to more useful community needs or functions, look back and laugh at his former self. Just like the rest of us have had to do at one stage or another.......x.... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 11th August 2017 at 19:15.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    Personal experiences are the only truth, IMHO. Our experience is ALL we have, nothing more. Everything else is subjective in some way, or filtered through the moods of those who pass it to us.
    Yes! ...and how frustrating it can be when you have an experience that is "way" out there and no evidence that people will acknowledge for real. When you know that you yourself were in a solid frame of mind and know exactly what your eyes saw, your ears heard and your body felt.

    We can never, should never, deter someone from communicating their personal experiences.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    . Personal experiences are the only PERSONAL truth,
    To assume they are a "truth" to anyone but the experienced (experiencer? experiencee?) is problematic.

    I certainly see testimonies as nothing but stories until I can corroborate them with evidence or my own experiences and logic / rational thought; and I see no reason to alter that.



    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    Personal experiences are the only truth, IMHO. Our experience is ALL we have, nothing more. Everything else is subjective in some way, or filtered through the moods of those who pass it to us.
    Yes! ...and how frustrating it can be when you have an experience that is "way" out there and no evidence that people will acknowledge for real. When you know that you yourself were in a solid frame of mind and know exactly what your eyes saw, your ears heard and your body felt.

    We can never, should never, deter someone from communicating their personal experiences.
    it almost sounds like there's an obligation implied there,, I think we should never, can never, force people to listen to others experiences.... if it's your experience and you understand something from it, why do other people matter; they were not there.

    Subjective experiences are just that, why not be content with your special experience; no need to foist it on others.
    There was a 1: 400,000,000,000,000 chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    . Personal experiences are the only PERSONAL truth,
    To assume they are a "truth" to anyone but the experienced (experiencer? experiencee?) is problematic.

    I certainly see testimonies as nothing but stories until I can corroborate them with evidence or my own experiences and logic / rational thought; and I see no reason to alter that.



    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    Personal experiences are the only truth, IMHO. Our experience is ALL we have, nothing more. Everything else is subjective in some way, or filtered through the moods of those who pass it to us.
    Yes! ...and how frustrating it can be when you have an experience that is "way" out there and no evidence that people will acknowledge for real. When you know that you yourself were in a solid frame of mind and know exactly what your eyes saw, your ears heard and your body felt.

    We can never, should never, deter someone from communicating their personal experiences.
    it almost sounds like there's an obligation implied there,, I think we should never, can never, force people to listen to others experiences.... if it's your experience and you understand something from it, why do other people matter; they were not there.

    Subjective experiences are just that, why not be content with your special experience; no need to foist it on others.
    I totally agree. The experience is only what it was to the person having the experience, nothing more. It is not evidence of anything.

    "Thou shalt not foist thy crap on thy neighbor" - 11th commandment, you can see why they cut it down to ten... lol.

    That being said, when many people experience similar things in different cultures or locals, you have to admit it may be worth another look from a skeptical eye. For the longest time I thought chem-trail people were competently cooky and crazy, like those crazy flat earthers, for example. Until I experienced things unexplainable to my lying eyes, that EXPERIENCE, coupled with my loose knowledge of those ultra crack pot chem-trailers gave me the push onto the path to look into it more. What can I say? I was wrong, I was ignorant, I'm a cooky crack-pot too. I just hope we are not wrong about the flat earth!!! lol. lol.

    But seriously, my point is that group experience does count for something, even when we ourselves are not believers or experience-rs....x... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 11th August 2017 at 20:50.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    . Personal experiences are the only PERSONAL truth,
    To assume they are a "truth" to anyone but the experienced (experiencer? experiencee?) is problematic.

    I certainly see testimonies as nothing but stories until I can corroborate them with evidence or my own experiences and logic / rational thought; and I see no reason to alter that.



    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Quote Posted by Nasu (here)
    Personal experiences are the only truth, IMHO. Our experience is ALL we have, nothing more. Everything else is subjective in some way, or filtered through the moods of those who pass it to us.
    Yes! ...and how frustrating it can be when you have an experience that is "way" out there and no evidence that people will acknowledge for real. When you know that you yourself were in a solid frame of mind and know exactly what your eyes saw, your ears heard and your body felt.

    We can never, should never, deter someone from communicating their personal experiences.
    it almost sounds like there's an obligation implied there,, I think we should never, can never, force people to listen to others experiences.... if it's your experience and you understand something from it, why do other people matter; they were not there.

    Subjective experiences are just that, why not be content with your special experience; no need to foist it on others.
    I don't know if I can agree with your last sentence. OBEs and NDEs are personal experiences. Over the years, I've gained so much from learning about other peoples' experiences while out of body or in afterlife/in between lifetimes realities. I share my experiences to add to a knowledge pool that science has added virtually nothing to and to hopefully help others understand their own experiences.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)

    I don't know if I can agree with your last sentence. OBEs and NDEs are personal experiences. Over the years, I've gained so much from learning about other peoples' experiences while out of body or in afterlife/in between lifetimes realities. I share my experiences to add to a knowledge pool that science has added virtually nothing to and to hopefully help others understand their own experiences.
    But isn't what you gained independent from the experience itself? or do you have to have the experience to be able to understand it? (see what I'm saying here?).

    The particulars of an experience that gives something are really far less important than the "something" that was given.

    if that "something" is completely dependent on this specific experience, then it will not be very "sharable" nor useful to others... if it is sharable then the "experience" itself becomes just a vehicle for the "something" (knowledge, understanding, what have you).

    The "something" should be able to stand on it's own, if it cannot, I tend to doubt the validity of the "something".


    Seems like there's a lot of focus on the wrong end of the equation; sometimes anyway.
    There was a 1: 400,000,000,000,000 chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    TargeT is right and I don't say that too often. lol. If something has value to the pupil or potential pupil, the as yet un-experience-r then great, otherwise it was but a mere moment in our lives to ponder upon for our own personal meaning or understanding, if such exists. This is why it's so crazy that Corey Goode has got as far as he has. Absence of evidence is evidence of nothing at all...

    I hope we can at least agree on one thing. That this guy in the vid who sparked off this discussion, excuse the pun, is completely off his face on something?.... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 12th August 2017 at 04:22.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    The "something" should be able to stand on it's own, if it cannot, I tend to doubt the validity of the "something".
    The interesting thing to bear in mind here is also obtained through experience in that those things that once stood on their own no longer do under the test of time.
    Last edited by joeecho; 11th August 2017 at 21:29.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)

    I don't know if I can agree with your last sentence. OBEs and NDEs are personal experiences. Over the years, I've gained so much from learning about other peoples' experiences while out of body or in afterlife/in between lifetimes realities. I share my experiences to add to a knowledge pool that science has added virtually nothing to and to hopefully help others understand their own experiences.
    But isn't what you gained independent from the experience itself? or do you have to have the experience to be able to understand it? (see what I'm saying here?).

    The particulars of an experience that gives something are really far less important than the "something" that was given.

    if that "something" is completely dependent on this specific experience, then it will not be very "sharable" nor useful to others... if it is sharable then the "experience" itself becomes just a vehicle for the "something" (knowledge, understanding, what have you).

    The "something" should be able to stand on it's own, if it cannot, I tend to doubt the validity of the "something".


    Seems like there's a lot of focus on the wrong end of the equation; sometimes anyway.
    When I first started having OBEs, I had no idea what they were. I strongly believed they were not creations of my brain, but I was not sure. If I did not have access to other peoples' accounts, whether they were in books, videos or forums, I may have just ignored the experiences or checked myself into a psych ward. In addition, I think others' experiences served as catalyst for me to learn more about them, including how to induce them. Also, with OBEs and NDEs, by sharing our stories we help each other to validate or confirm.

    Is what was gained independent from the experience? Yes, for the most part. But learning about others' experiences often has led me to new experiences, different things that I could do out of body. So maybe the what was gained and an experience can be entwined. For example, until reading Robert Monroe's books and how he experimented with his OBEs, I might not ever have thought of trying to travel while out body to a few of my relatives as a way to confirm. Monroe's experiences led me to those experiences.

    I hope I am making sense.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)

    I don't know if I can agree with your last sentence. OBEs and NDEs are personal experiences. Over the years, I've gained so much from learning about other peoples' experiences while out of body or in afterlife/in between lifetimes realities. I share my experiences to add to a knowledge pool that science has added virtually nothing to and to hopefully help others understand their own experiences.
    But isn't what you gained independent from the experience itself? or do you have to have the experience to be able to understand it? (see what I'm saying here?).

    The particulars of an experience that gives something are really far less important than the "something" that was given.

    if that "something" is completely dependent on this specific experience, then it will not be very "sharable" nor useful to others... if it is sharable then the "experience" itself becomes just a vehicle for the "something" (knowledge, understanding, what have you).

    The "something" should be able to stand on it's own, if it cannot, I tend to doubt the validity of the "something".


    Seems like there's a lot of focus on the wrong end of the equation; sometimes anyway.
    When I first started having OBEs, I had no idea what they were. I strongly believed they were not creations of my brain, but I was not sure. If I did not have access to other peoples' accounts, whether they were in books, videos or forums, I may have just ignored the experiences or checked myself into a psych ward. In addition, I think others' experiences served as catalyst for me to learn more about them, including how to induce them. Also, with OBEs and NDEs, by sharing our stories we help each other to validate or confirm.

    Is what was gained independent from the experience? Yes, for the most part. But learning about others' experiences often has led me to new experiences, different things that I could do out of body. So maybe the what was gained and an experience can be entwined. For example, until reading Robert Monroe's books and how he experimented with his OBEs, I might not ever have thought of trying to travel while out body to a few of my relatives as a way to confirm. Monroe's experiences led me to those experiences.

    I hope I am making sense.
    Yes. When a person is alone and has an odd experience, reading about another person's experience that is similar helps immensely.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    What I understand of the situation of any individuals experience, is theirs alone. Yet I respect it,and view it as a path that they are on at this point of time. It is not my intent to look beyond their experience, I just try to understand it and respect it as there own. The object of any forum is to communicate and share. I can gain wisdom from an expieriace I have never had. So if you have had an out of body happening or not, have an e.t. event, u.f.o. event, anything you can add here event, sharing it is fine. Every subject here, every post here, is personal. .From your individual experiance. If not, there is no point in expression of self.
    Last edited by bobme; 12th August 2017 at 05:08.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by LadyM (here)

    I don't know if I can agree with your last sentence. OBEs and NDEs are personal experiences. Over the years, I've gained so much from learning about other peoples' experiences while out of body or in afterlife/in between lifetimes realities. I share my experiences to add to a knowledge pool that science has added virtually nothing to and to hopefully help others understand their own experiences.
    But isn't what you gained independent from the experience itself? or do you have to have the experience to be able to understand it? (see what I'm saying here?).

    The particulars of an experience that gives something are really far less important than the "something" that was given.

    if that "something" is completely dependent on this specific experience, then it will not be very "sharable" nor useful to others... if it is sharable then the "experience" itself becomes just a vehicle for the "something" (knowledge, understanding, what have you).

    The "something" should be able to stand on it's own, if it cannot, I tend to doubt the validity of the "something".


    Seems like there's a lot of focus on the wrong end of the equation; sometimes anyway.
    When I first started having OBEs, I had no idea what they were. I strongly believed they were not creations of my brain, but I was not sure. If I did not have access to other peoples' accounts, whether they were in books, videos or forums, I may have just ignored the experiences or checked myself into a psych ward. In addition, I think others' experiences served as catalyst for me to learn more about them, including how to induce them. Also, with OBEs and NDEs, by sharing our stories we help each other to validate or confirm.

    Is what was gained independent from the experience? Yes, for the most part. But learning about others' experiences often has led me to new experiences, different things that I could do out of body. So maybe the what was gained and an experience can be entwined. For example, until reading Robert Monroe's books and how he experimented with his OBEs, I might not ever have thought of trying to travel while out body to a few of my relatives as a way to confirm. Monroe's experiences led me to those experiences.

    I hope I am making sense.
    Yes. When a person is alone and has an odd experience, reading about another person's experience that is similar helps immensely.
    Interesting, science should do the opposite. It would separate the witnesses or experiencers and get testimony independently. That's what is muddying the waters.

    When a crime occurs the first thing cops do is separate the witnesses and get independent testimony. Witnesses don't need to convince each other but here we convince a judge/jury. A third party needs to be convinced. This methodology works better and clears the water more.

    If one person sees a UFO in the sky it is not very convincing. If two people see a UFO together, more convincing but if others see the same thing miles away, independently, it carries much more weight and it's a lot more convincing. Same method with seeing a ghost. 2 people have an experience at the same time and think they see a ghost. Tell a third party independently and see if the experiences match or collaborate. Like they both describe seeing a female ghost in a long dress with a bonnet.

    People lie and muddy the waters. Witnesses collaborating also muddies the waters. Science wants to convince a third party here just as lawyers do judges or juries. Court cases have been thrown out because of witnesses collaborating before trial. Usually at some point testimony is given and it is accepted as data or not, truth or not. Then it doesn't matter if witnesses talk.

    In certain areas there are so many stories told that the waters are getting so muddy that no one is believed and anyone can copy a story and claim it's their experience. Science is a journey to find truth and more truth and often shares with everyone.

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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    As the saying goes, "Consider the source." If someone is purely relating a personal experience as first-hand information, it is highly valuable. If there are ulterior motives, or an attempt to make anyone "believe" a certain thing, then it is impure.

    When listening (or reading about) someone's personal experience, truth can be discerned.

    I find 1st hand information from true personal experiences highly valuable.

    Love,
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    ~*~ "The best way to predict the future is to create it." - Peter Drucker ~*~ “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson ~*~ "Creative minds always have been known to survive any kind of bad training." - Anna Freud ~*~

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    England Avalon Member Spiral's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    OH to be that young you can follow your "education" & think you are right lol.

    Where is this "reality" he speaks of as "fact" and where are the unquestionable "science" facts about the brain, consciousness & the after life ? Maybe he means scientism ?

    Why does he think reincarnation & heaven are mutually exclusive ? The ignorance is strong with this one lol.

    A question to mojo, did you post this in relation to UFOs & abductions ? If so then I would like to say that a substantial number of people who post things on the internet are far from genuine, I would go so far as to say they are shills working to an agenda.

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    Posted because I thought the subject is extremely complex and in the past got into conflict over subjects when saying differently and even though the video wanders a bit off topic there was one thing said that will help in the future when calling into question testimony. The speaker mentioned when others call into question our personal testimony it will be taken personally, and not an effective way to change others opinions. A better method is to not call into question what is said but how it relates contrary to our version of reality. (I'm paraphrasing a bit) Anyway I've always been on the side of gathering as much evidence as possible because it lends credence to what was missed or experienced off tape. In that regard honestly feel I may have missed even more personal encounters because of choosing the camera over my own experience..

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are personal experiences proof?

    To the question in the OP, no, they're not. They're subjective experiences, subjective truths or can be delusions and lies too. Personal experiences in studies may become remarkable as is the case with telepathy or near death experiences just to name a few things. Yet most of the academic community chooses to mock and ignore such studies, because they won't reinforce their materialistic and dogmatic views of the world. In the end, they are believers too.

    Personal experiences may be important if I believe said people telling about their experiences. You may have experienced that you were a toaster, but that doesn't prove anything else except that you may have been under the effect of some substance or then you were just plain delusional.

    For example, I cannot really prove that I love someone, but it's still true and not only subjectively. Or that I have experienced things which could not be explained rationally and I know subjectively that they were not my imaginations or just "dreams", they were very real. I know what I saw with my conscious mind. Still I cannot and don't even want to prove that they were "real things" that happened to occur to me, they have happened to many other humans too. You just cannot "prove" everything scientifically, yet. That's where intuition, logic, faith and trust comes in. Also research too.

    In this paranormal & alternative research community there's a lot of "noise" (from empty cans, If I might say) and you have to separate wheat from the chaff, and there sure is a lot of chaff. Yet also many interesting and truthful experiences too! It would be highly ignorant to claim that all of them were just delusions, lies and imagination. Life is such a great mystery to be unsolved.
    Last edited by Wind; 13th August 2017 at 02:30.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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