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Thread: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

  1. Link to Post #101
    France Administrator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    [...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
    Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?
    I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....
    [...]
    All right, the picture commented on is an actual 3D object which can be reconstructed in one's mind (pareidolia) either as gouged grooves on a flat, smoothed, polished surface (glacial abrasion) or as built up deposits similar to calcite deposits.

    All depends on how the mind interprets the shadows position in the picture (2D rendering of an actual, real 3D object) and the location of the light source generating them (sun):
    • sun in upper right corner of picture ===> deposit built up
    • sun in upper left corner of picture ===> grooves
    The Necker cube is different in that it is a 2D graphic which the mind reconstruct (perception) as a 3D object in 2 possible ways... which way is the correct one would be dispelled by an actual picture of an actual 3D cube.

    This is not and actual "optical illusion" per se as it is not one's optical gears that are being fooled, but a "perception illusion" since it is one's mind that's being tricked one way or the other.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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  3. Link to Post #102
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Tombs of the Genii at the river Kora in soviet Turkestan have been called The Mother of all Megaliths.

    This Sketch of these five Megaliths was included in the Book The early Dawn of Civilization. Unfortunatly I just were able to find this Version of the Sketch (somebody put some bars and a tree on it).

    The Sketch was made 1876.

    Here a painted interpretation of above Sketch


    Quote The sketch portrays the Tombs of the Genii, as they appeared circa 1876. These towering standing stones were -- and perhaps still are -- located on the Kora River in what was Soviet Turkestan, Siberia. When you learn of their sizes, you'll realize that these lithic monsters must still be there, because modern machinery would be taxed to nudge them.
    The largest of these standing stones rises 75 feet above ground level and probably penetrates 12 feet below. Its weight is in the neighborhood of 3,800 tons! This is more than 10 times the weight of Er Grah, the largest standing stone in Brittany and more than twice the size of the massive Trilithon still languishing in its quarry at Baalbek, Lebanon. This latter stone is routinely claimed to be the largest dressed monolith in the world. It isn't!
    While the Siberian monolith is probably more recent than the Baalbek stone and not as finely finished, it is an unparalleled example of stone quarrying, transportation, and erection. The stones of the Great Pyramid and those Easter Island statues are puny in comparison. Who erected these giant megaliths and how did they wrestle them into place?
    (Howard, John Eliot; "The Early Dawn of Civilization...," Victoria Institute, Journal of the Transactions, 9:239, 1876. Cr. E. von Fange)
    I looked for pictures of these Monoliths but could not find any. Either they are out of sight or have been destroyed.

    Source:
    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf131/sf131p02.htm

    There is another account of a sighting of these Monoliths (Tombs of the Genii)by Thomas Witlam Atkinson:

    Quote Recently I posted a story regarding super-megaliths being seen and recorded in the Gora Valley of southern Kazakhstan. Some questioned their reality. But the story is true. I can confirm they were encountered by British explorer Thomas Witlam Atkinson (1799–1861), in the company of local men, during his celebrated journey through Siberia in the 1850s. There were five standing monoliths, with a sixth horizontal on the ground. They were rectilinear in shape and the size of a fair sized English church tower. Close by was a large stone tumuli (kurgan). Locals saw them as marking the tombs of Genii, with the kurgan being the alleged tomb of a local chief who had dared to enter the valley after the burial of the genii.

    The fact that Atkinson was an architect, stonemason and accomplished painter means that his description and detailed illustration of the monoliths are most assuredly accurate. The pressing questions are a) are they natural or artificial constructions (i.e. were they upended intentionally like a regular standing stone), and b) if they do exist, why in this digital age of global communication has no one ever reported their existence in modern times?

    Without these questions being answered, the whole matter can go no further. Personally I have never seen monoliths upended through the forces of nature like this anywhere in the world, and can think of no geological process that would do this only to five monoliths all placed in close proximity, with no evidence of similar activity anywhere else in the world. As I mentioned before, if there was enough interest, I would organise an exploratory tour out there. So if you are interested, let me know and I will see what we can arrange.
    Thomas Witlam Atkinson's biography can be found here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Witlam_Atkinson

    Thomas Witlam Atkinson (1799–1861)


    Map of celebrated journeys across the Central Asian continent, including that of Thomas Witlam Atkinson:


    Source:
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/andre...0170392331164/
    Last edited by uzn; 14th September 2017 at 12:53.

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  5. Link to Post #103
    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    [...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
    Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?
    I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....
    [...]
    All right, the picture commented on is an actual 3D object which can be reconstructed in one's mind (pareidolia) either as gouged grooves on a flat, smoothed, polished surface (glacial abrasion) or as built up deposits similar to calcite deposits.

    All depends on how the mind interprets the shadows position in the picture (2D rendering of an actual, real 3D object) and the location of the light source generating them (sun):
    • sun in upper right corner of picture ===> deposit built up
    • sun in upper left corner of picture ===> grooves
    The Necker cube is different in that it is a 2D graphic which the mind reconstruct (perception) as a 3D object in 2 possible ways... which way is the correct one would be dispelled by an actual picture of an actual 3D cube.

    This is not and actual "optical illusion" per se as it is not one's optical gears that are being fooled, but a "perception illusion" since it is one's mind that's being tricked one way or the other.
    You trimmed my post a little short. The .... was followed later by another little series of dots, thereby indicating a continuation of the preceding, as such ...(exits stage left, blushing furiously).
    The first part of the sentence was like a petulant protest by way of defence, followed by self-deprecating humour to indicate it was not a serious statement. I guess lost in translation applies?

    For what its worth, as I responded to the first quote, waiting for the page to load, that actual photo stopped in front of me and I could clearly see it was indentations. There was a momentary feeling of dismay at my mistake then an interesting 30 seconds or so as I tried to see it the same way as yesterday. I found it quite difficult to flip the views, hence posting the necker cube as a much simpler exercise of the same type phenomenon and by way of saying I understood despite my protestation to the contrary.

    Jokes don't really work if you have to explain them.

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  7. Link to Post #104
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Got'cha.......

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  9. Link to Post #105
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    [...]
    Jokes don't really work if you have to explain them.
    Right... and, when in doubt, take Poe's law into account... we have many, many guest readers...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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  11. Link to Post #106
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Scythian gold in The Museum of Russian Art

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  13. Link to Post #107
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    The oldest and highest wooden statue in the world.
    Scientists close to precise dating of the Shigir Idol, twice as ancient as the Egyptian Pyramids (after conventional dating).

    Meet the Shigir Idol.

    The Shigir Idol (Russian: Шигирский идол), is the most ancient wooden sculpture in the world, made during the Mesolithic period and was carved around 11,000 years ago. It is displayed in the Sverdlovsk Regional Museum of Local Lore in Yekaterinburg, Russia.

    The idol was discovered on January 24, 1894 at a depth of 4 m (13 ft) in the peat bog of Shigir, on the eastern slope of the Middle Urals, approximately 100 km (62 mi) from Yekaterinburg. Investigations in this area had begun 40 years earlier after the discovery of a variety of prehistoric objects in an open-air gold mine.
    It was extracted in several parts; professor D. I. Lobanov combined the main fragments to reconstitute a sculpture 2.80 m (9 ft 2 in) high.
    In 1914, archaeologist Vladimir Tolmachev (ru) proposed a variant of this reconstruction by integrating the unused fragments. The reconstruction suggested that the original height of the statue was 5.3 metres.
    Some of these fragments were later lost, so only Tolmachev's drawings of them remain.

    The radiocarbon dating carried out by G. I. Zajtseva of the Institute of the History for the Material Culture (ru) in Saint-Petersburg, confirmed by the Geological Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow, gave an age of 9,500 years. A later German analysis gave an age of 11,000 years. It is the most ancient known wooden sculpture of its kind in the world.
    (Wikipedia)





    Siberian Times article:
    Is this the world's oldest secret code?
    http://siberiantimes.com/science/cas...t-secret-code/







    The Shigir Idol is twice as old as the Pyramids and Stonehenge - and is by far the oldest wooden structure in the world.
    Even more mysteriously, it is covered in what experts describe as ‘encrypted code’ - a message from a lost civilisation.
    Professor Mikhail Zhilin of the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Archeology said: ‘The ornament is covered with nothing but encrypted information. People were passing on knowledge with the help of the Idol.’
    Russian experts think that the strange carvings may contain a belief system, the equivalent of the Bible’s Genesis.
    That means the sculpture dates from the very beginning of the Holocene epoch - the era when man rose to dominate the world.’





    Last edited by uzn; 15th September 2017 at 15:29.

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  15. Link to Post #108
    Avalon Member uzn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    a good article about the Okunev Culture of Khakassia. I already posted several standing stones and engravings in earlier posts.

    Okunev sculptures – the mystery of Khakassia

    Imagine yourself in the front of a stone statue reaching a height of 1 to 3.5 meters. There’s a huge mask on the top, as well as ancient animals and strange symbols around. These monuments are in the prairies and meadows of Khakassia. Overlooking the landscape, they are visible from everywhere. The most famous of these are in the museums today—specifically The State Hermitage in St. Petersburg, Minusinsk and Abakan museums. In ancient times they could be seen from the burial mounds and near to lakes.

    The history of discovery

    In the 18th century members of the expedition of the Russian Academy of Sciences found stone sculptures at Lake Shira. They described the scene of the ancient shamans who performed shamanistic rituals. The scientists suggested that the stele was much older than people who offered worship to it. In the 19th century, stone idols were thoroughly researched. Because of the lack of textual sources, scientists searched for analogies in other cultures. Statue hats were compared with medieval Mongolian caps. Later on the parallels were expanded: masks were compared with petroglyphs of the Amur river. Additionally, relief on the stone was compared with ritual body coloring in Eskimo and Indian cultures. It’s believed that these steles are like a prayer to the god of that location—a god expressed in the figure.


    Okunev statue from Ust Abakan region. 220x50x25 centimeters. Abakan museum.

    Is it a sculpture or not?

    This is not a sculpture, although it would seem that it is because of the hewn shoulders & neck in the stone. It’s not simply a relief, as the drawing is a part of the stone figure. The scientists have not agreed what exactly is in front of them or what kind of art these stone steles are. They have therefore taken a different approach to analysing this phenomenon. They have chosen a special name: stone steles, or ‘Stone women’.

    Space and time

    In the 1960s these statues were connected to the independent archaeological culture of Okunevskaya (2 — 1 000 BC). Famous Khakassian archaeologist, Kyzlasov, discovered solar symbols as a significant part of Khakassian ancient art, which has since formed a part of the flag and the emblem of the Khakassian republic.


    Okunev statue from Kopensky mound. Abakan museum.

    Each statue is inscribed in space in her own way. Draw a circle around the figure and pay attention to how the pattern changes. It follows a person, some sections & curves disappear, while others appear from a different view. Most likely this technique reflects a special ritual and mythological sense, and says in a special language something that us modern people fail to understand. Harmony and movements, internal and external, Cosmos and human; all merged into stone statues.

    What are these statues about?

    All sculptures have a common design & composition. But despite this, they are extremely varied.
    The general pattern: the mask with transverse stripes, the complex relief in the middle of a statue, and a solar symbol. This represents a demonic creature or a shaman from mythological stories. This pattern was a part of the representation of the ancient people from the model of world in which people used to live.
    Stone women: the phenomenon has no analogues anywhere in the world. Until now, scientists have set out different versions of the origin of these monuments, trying to uncover the meaning of the images. They are looking for similar artefacts around the world, but are yet to find any.


    280x50x35 centimeters. Minusinsk museum.

    Source:
    http://toururu.com/okunev-sculptures...-of-khakassia/
    Last edited by uzn; 16th September 2017 at 09:40.

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  17. Link to Post #109
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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    some more Okunev Steles.


















    Last edited by uzn; 16th September 2017 at 18:40.

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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Here some of their more often used Symbols:
















    Last edited by uzn; 16th September 2017 at 18:55.

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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)


















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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)


















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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)


















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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)


















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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)







    There are also gravings of stange creatures:











    ...and a cool siberian Shaman
    Last edited by uzn; 16th September 2017 at 20:14.

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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Feedback from a reader here!

    I'd love to see more of the Russian (and Asian) megaliths. Meaning, the impossibly huge stones that have apparently been carved and somehow moved. I know that some have been recently discovered, I believe in the Caucasus (did I get that right?), and I'd imagine that investigations have been continuing.


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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Quote Posted by uzn (here)

    There are also gravings of stange creatures:


    Wow, you could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw those strange creatures.
    This is from my cave painting thread after my trip to India in 2015.

    Seen here. Scroll down the page to view.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...i-India./page3

    Name:  1_zpsphbwlcyc (1).jpg
Views: 371
Size:  98.7 KBName:  Screenshot_2016-02-27-07-17-14-535-2.jpg
Views: 365
Size:  41.7 KB

    My artist impression of what I saw.
    Name:  IMG_20160502_184454.jpg
Views: 367
Size:  28.2 KBName:  IMG_20160512_204817.jpg
Views: 361
Size:  32.6 KB
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    Wow, you could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw those strange creatures.
    This is from my cave painting thread after my trip to India in 2015.
    Thanks, very interesting. I always wonder why these cavepainters paint sometimes very stange things. Maybe it was like: Here kid look at our fabulus hunting scenes, and these were the animals we ate. And by the way over there are the Monsters from the next valley to the right and over there are the stange people that come down at night from the sky.

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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

    Now we go back quite a bit to about 26000 years ago.
    These Siberians have no name but the place where they were found. The places are Mal'ta and Buret' in Siberia.
    So they call them the Mal'ta–Buret' culture.

    Wikipedia is very shortcomming:
    Quote The Mal'ta–Buret' culture is an archaeological culture of the Upper Paleolithic (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper Angara River in the area west of Lake Baikal in the Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation. The type sites are named for the villages of Mal'ta (Мальта), Usolsky District and Buret' (Буреть), Bokhansky District (both in Irkutsk Oblast).

    Much of what is known about Mal'ta comes from the Russian archaeologist Mikhail Gerasimov. Better known later for his contribution to the branch of anthropology known as forensic facial reconstruction, Gerasimov made revolutionary discoveries when he excavated Mal'ta in 1927. Until his findings, the Upper Paleolithic societies of Northern Asia were virtually unknown. Over the remainder of his career Gerasimov twice more visited Mal'ta to excavate and research the site.



    Map showing the Mal'ta site beside the river Belaya, and the Buret' site about 15 km away beside the Angara River, which flows from North to South in this satellite photo.

    Remember when you look at the stuff, that´s up to 26000 years old (officially). That´s in a time when people were supposed to throw sticks at Mammuts and smear paint on walls in caves.

    Why I bring this up is that they have found engravings, figurines, sophisticated tools and symbols. These are well worth a look or two.

    First let´s look at the most known object from this excacation: the Venus of Mal'ta (don´t get confused with Malta-Gibraltar here)
    I have no clue why archeologists whenever they find a feminine figure say: It´s the Venus of this and that? Beats me.




    That´s not that unusual for europe and russia at that time.

    Gerasimov with his colleagues in archaeology during the excavations at Mal'ta, 1957 and 1958.





    Circular dwelling made with a stone wall base, from Mal'ta, Siberia.




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    Default Re: Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)




    Mal'ta, Height 42 mm, Width 8 mm




    Height 44 mm.


    Fragment of a mammoth tusk showing a mammoth.
    Mammoth tusk; carved, polished and engraved. 83 x 32 mm
    Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP
    Malta Site (Excavations of M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia


    They say these are birdcarvings. With the left one I am not so sure.



    Now the first things that seem a bit strange. The Archeologists say these are stylised representations of birds. Some might look somewhat like birds but many don´t for me. And they made quite a lot of them.

    Found during the excavations of 1956 - 1957, in the 'male habitat' areas, to the right of the fireplaces.
    They are made of mammoth ivory and, although their dimensions are unequal - the largest measuring 150 mm, and the smallest 50 mm, they are, by their form and style, remarkably homogeneous. The head has an irregular rhomboid outline, pointed upward and reminiscent, both in its form and how it connects to the neck, of the head of a snake. It carries no figurative detail.



    Last edited by uzn; 17th September 2017 at 19:22.

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