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Thread: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Hello, Everyone:

    I was going to post this in 'General Forum Information' (which is for members), but then I figured I should showcase this as a public thread. It's important.

    Some recent posts and new threads have prompted quite a bit of moderator discussion, and also my own thoughts. So I thought this clarifying thread might be useful.

    The simplest thing for me to do is to copy what I shared with the moderators just a few minutes ago. It should be self-explanatory. All feedback and comments are absolutely most welcome.

    Context: these threads (two new, and one old) prompted these thoughts.

    * For non-members: these all live in the members-only section — not because they're sensitive and private, but because as a forum we want to strike a balance between supporting members to express themselves in this way, at the same time maintaining our commitment to the wider community to be a platform where science and spiritually really do meet.
    (My internal Skype message to the mods follows)

    ~~~
    To all the moderators: This kind of a thing is a problem, to be managed by us as well as we can. These weird things do happen. (Actual ET incarnations, real channeled messages, etc etc.) But it's how this kind of thing is presented that's the key.

    I absolutely don't want to automatically unsubscribe anyone who shares a wild claim or a seemingly crazy story. We're not a bunch of hard-nosed debunkers here.

    And I don't want us to be perceived that way, or for members (old or new) to be afraid of sharing extreme things. I've had extreme experiences myself, including some so ridiculously way out I've never shared them publicly. I know many other members have, too.

    It's all about what people are urging others to believe, or even 'follow'. Or not. That's the critical factor.

    And, just maybe, the Nazca Mummies really are non-human. I'm currently 98% sure they're not, but I could be wrong. It's all about the intelligent quality of the discussion. Not about putting anyone down.

    That's a really important standard that we all have to maintain and encourage. We need to be:
    • courteous
    • open-minded
    • rational
    • grounded.
    Like the 24,000 year old Romanian pyramid that I asked Hervé to comment on. Some ancient buried pyramids really are real. We can't ever forget that. (And some people are reincarnated ETs, too.)

    It's all about balance. And, importantly, how it's all presented.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 3rd September 2017 at 16:34.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member samildamach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    I would add to your list bill respectful.
    Courteous almost covers it but you can still call someone an idiot Courteously .

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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Is that like brushing away someones tears with the back hand of a spiked glove?

    Apparently ultimate intent doesn't count here.

    Silly games people play to ease their own consciousness.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Quote Posted by joeecho (here)
    Is that like brushing away someones tears with the back hand of a spiked glove?

    Apparently ultimate intent doesn't count here.

    Silly games people play to ease their own consciousness.
    Jeez.

    In my personal opinion, that's quite an unaware, barbed, spiked comment... in itself.

    Please read my post again, several times, until you understand it better.

    * Bill is trying here to maintain his principle of courtesy.

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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by joeecho (here)
    Is that like brushing away someones tears with the back hand of a spiked glove?

    Apparently ultimate intent doesn't count here.

    Silly games people play to ease their own consciousness.
    Jeez.

    In my personal opinion, that's quite an unaware, barbed, spiked comment... in itself.

    Please read my post again, several times, until you understand it better.

    * Bill is trying here to maintain his principle of courtesy.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    joeecho, you're out. You have a history of snarkiness that anyone can look up.

    Enough. I don't want you back here. Please take your slimy attitude elsewhere. I was sincerely and transparently opening a serious discussion.

    As I explained: (paraphrased here another way)

    It's not what you say, it's often how you say it. You should be old enough to understand that. You're not a young kid any more.

    ***

    I'll continue with the post I was about to make, as a further explanation:

    It's not about 'intent', at all.

    Some people can be totally sincere — e.g. many Flat Earthers — and often very nice folks, too. But they may not all be rational and grounded enough to qualify to be an active part of this community. That's one of the reasons we have a membership application filter.

    Here's what I took the time to write, personally (do other forums ever do this?), by e-mail, to unsubscribed new member jesseblenn, who posted this as his very first contribution after his Welcome thread post:That was 100% pure nonsense. If anyone disagrees, please just go elsewhere. (And I do mean that respectfully.)

    My personal e-mail to jesseblenn:

    ~~~
    Many thanks, Jesse — I sincerely appreciate and respect your enthusiasm and eagerness to get at whatever the truth may be.

    As you've already seen, we quickly realized we made a mistake when we approved your forum membership application. We're very open-minded here, and are not debunkers, but this is not the kind of impossible notion we can support. Without wishing any slight on you, this is not a tenable idea. Period.

    We sincerely wish you well, and as Paul wrote to you a short while ago, this is not the forum you are looking for.

    With our best wishes ~ Bill and the Project Avalon team
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 3rd September 2017 at 17:32.

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    France Moderator Hervé's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    ...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    I really like the direction this is heading. Thanks Bill!

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    You are on a roll today, Bill (referring to your post over here) -

    I have written the following on this forum before, but if ever there be a thread these thoughts best belong, it is this one.

    What I learned the hardest of ways resulted in my formualtion of what I believe to be the most healthy process for considering the anomalous, especially one's own anomalous experiences.

    There is always the experience (sometimes this is one's experience of the description another of their own experience).

    It is important always to consider that there is an experience and then there is what one perceives of that experience - thus "an experience occurred" (something happened) and then there is "what I believe I experienced" (or "what was described to me by another).

    There is then the element I refer to as "the interpretation" of the experience. There's a grey area between what one believes they experienced (the perception) and the interpretation. An example is someone saying... "I saw what appeared to be a hazy, animated form and that form had the shape of a bear." In this example, "hazy, animated form" is what was perceived and "the shape of a bear" is the interpretation.

    This is where things can get dicey. Often folks will take the next step which I refer to as "drawing conclusions." In using the same example as the one above, the experiencer may then say, "I believe what I saw as indeed the ghost of a bear."

    And the next step (even more dicey) is what I refer to as "the paradigm phase." This is the phase where a conclusion either supports an existing paradigm and/or is used to create a new version of an existing paradigm or is used to create a new paradigm.


    What I have all too often observed is that when a story teller moves from the description phase of what they believe they experienced into the conclusions phase, if they do not (both in their own mind as well as what they speak) make it clear that their conclusions are at best speculative... then they have ventured into the troubled land. This all too often leads to a "story competition" where embellishment and then outright "continuous, creative story development" starts to creep in and this all to often is either picked up by a third party who happens to be a proponent (and often spokesman... and all too often, a spokesman who benefits in fame and/or fortune... all too often both) of an existing paradigm. In some cases, the storyteller themselves finds a convenient paradigm to "fit their story into" and/or takes an existing paradigm further.) In some cases, the story teller and/or a third party creates a brand new paradigm.

    IMO all paradigms "limit" and the best example of a limiting paradigm is any religion.

    This is why Bill's point about "open mind" is essential to retain throughout all phases being ever most careful of the last two phases, conclusions and paradigm support/creation.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Quote Posted by JoefromtheCarolinas (here)
    I really like the direction this is heading. Thanks Bill!
    Thanks, Joe: much appreciated.

    It's a really tricky balance, which is never that easy to negotiate. As many might see on other parts of the net, there's a kind of gradual, encroaching, head-way-in-the-clouds-but-feet-nowhere-near-anything-solid ungroundness that's starting to become manifest in quite a few places. And with quite a few people who have become fast-tracked to minor celebrity, but who are helping absolutely no-one and nothing at all.

    I see one of Avalon's many roles and functions as being a kind of bulwark against that. But the filter has to be very fine-tuned. And, always checked for blockages.

    I always used to say in Camelot days: There's a lot of crazy stuff out there, and some of it is true. Someone might carve that on my tombstone one day.

    (But not quite as good as the epitaph suggested by legendary British 'Goon' Spike Milligan: "I told you I was sick." )

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    United States Avalon Member ghostrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Taking care of people, with many different backgrounds, thoughts/opinions , is an art ... Thanks Bill for the keeping things grounded and respectful, and still maintaining the open embrace for those seeking to explore and expand the human experience ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Well said Sammy.

    I love bizarre, quirky paranormal topics, and will indulge the outlandish from time to time. But if you can think of my brain as a planet, I always keep that stuff orbiting on the outer rim, so to speak, with the most pertinent, provable, or evidence based stuff occupying the inner orbits. That's how I keep my feet on the ground while still maintaining some awe and wonder. Those topics floating around in the outer rim have to *earn* their way to my attention thru evidence and rationality and just plain ol logic.

    Bill I'm seeing what you're seeing, and it's akin to David ickes "totalitarian tiptoe". The infiltration is slow and insidious. It attempts to sneak up on you, to hypnotize you thru a small series of what I call "acceptances" (they get you to gradually accept irrational crap - like the flat earth - until youre so scrambled that reality becomes fantasy and vice versa). Mind control, in other words
    Last edited by Mike; 3rd September 2017 at 19:39.
    My head says 'who cares?', but my heart whispers 'you do, stupid...'"

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  23. Link to Post #13
    Avalon Member cccme's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Well you know the internet in general has gotten very snarky and mean and I blame it mostly on the bots acting as human (our worst traits) who knows who is real and who is a bot (I don't).
    To attempt to keep this place that has smart and thoughtful threads while at the same time keeping things civil is at this point a herculean task.
    I think a lot of these weirder posts are because people
    are bored
    their cell phones aren't working
    want to stir things up
    what things to keep going
    have a agenda, now days it gets outed pretty quickly around here
    But this is the state of the internet nowdays, a lot of distraction, the flat earth cia psy-ops, CNN outright lies, polarizing, watching the next accident or suicide or murder, live of course, on the facebook
    (with blood and a lot of screaming)
    But
    either you say, these are the guidelines or chaos, bloodletting and a lot of yelling.
    Last edited by cccme; 3rd September 2017 at 21:00.
    As within so without

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    United States Avalon Member neutronstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    I believe in open minded skepticism as Tom Campbell puts it. I'm open to about anything (not flat earth though), but when someone makes extraordinary claims on a forum, I lean towards BS. It really muddies the water and makes it hard for people with claims that aren't so far out there to be taken seriously.

    Maybe the solution is to create a section for the beyond belief even for conspiracy theorists. A section that is probably 2% true, 98% BS.

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  27. Link to Post #15
    United States Avalon Member LadyM's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    When talking about my astral experiences and other topics with more unknowns than knowns, I do my best to carefully word things so that the reader understands they are my perceptions, someone else's view or, as is more often the case, just a possibility or something to consider. I can't say this enough: I know nothing with certainty. If I ever come across as if I know something with certainty, please, poke or thump me.

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  29. Link to Post #16
    UK Avalon Member Tintin Quarantino's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Quote Posted by cccme (here)
    Well you know the internet in general has gotten very snarky and mean and I blame it mostly on the bots acting as human (our worst traits) who knows who is real and who is a bot (I don't).
    To attempt to keep this place that has smart and thoughtful threads while at the same time keeping things civil is at this point a herculean task.
    I think a lot of these weirder posts are because people
    are bored
    their cell phones aren't working
    want to stir things up
    what things to keep going
    have a agenda, now days it gets outed pretty quickly around here
    But this is the state of the internet nowdays, a lot of distraction, the flat earth cia psy-ops, CNN outright lies, polarizing, watching the next accident or suicide or murder, live of course, on the facebook
    (with blood and a lot of screaming)
    But
    either you say, these are the guidelines or chaos, bloodletting and a lot of yelling.
    Oh boy, how right you are in many areas here. It is absolutely very noisy out there isn't it? And I am always gobsmacked at the enormous vitriol that always follows in comments areas below videos on youtube. Sometimes I might read threads for some sado-amusement - and no, it isn't actually funny but frighteningly incredible: I can be genuinely awestruck at the awfulness of some of that.

    With the very odd exception of course, thankfully Avalon generally never descends to that level. One of many reasons I wanted to be involved here.

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  31. Link to Post #17
    Avalon Member TrumanCash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by JoefromtheCarolinas (here)
    I really like the direction this is heading. Thanks Bill!
    Thanks, Joe: much appreciated.

    It's a really tricky balance, which is never that easy to negotiate. As many might see on other parts of the net, there's a kind of gradual, encroaching, head-way-in-the-clouds-but-feet-nowhere-near-anything-solid ungroundness that's starting to become manifest in quite a few places. And with quite a few people who have become fast-tracked to minor celebrity, but who are helping absolutely no-one and nothing at all.

    I see one of Avalon's many roles and functions as being a kind of bulwark against that. But the filter has to be very fine-tuned. And, always checked for blockages.

    I always used to say in Camelot days: There's a lot of crazy stuff out there, and some of it is true. Someone might carve that on my tombstone one day.

    (But not quite as good as the epitaph suggested by legendary British 'Goon' Spike Milligan: "I told you I was sick." )
    Yes, Bill, Avalon is indeed a "bulwark against that". I used to use other forums (e.g., ATS, Icke, etc) and I really got tired of the trolls and the condescending, know-it-all snarkinators who were so obviously locked into the matrix that they had no clue they were. So I really wanted to come on the Avalon forum.

    Ironically, ha, ha, ha, I was not allowed on the forum due to these filters! I admit that it was presumably due to my wanting to live a private life, using a pen name, etc. I thought that I could get on the forum if I could talk to Bill personally. But, I mean, what are the chances of meeting face-to-face with someone who lived in Ecuador?

    This is also a story about synchronicity and how, if we go with the flow and be patient, amazing things can happen. And they did.

    I actually met Bill face-to-face. I was invited to a dinner with friends in North Idaho. I was then introduced to a man across the table from me named "Bill Ryan". I was a bit incredulous at first.

    Are you the Bill Ryan? I asked. I was so surprised I think I appeared to be a groupy of sorts because he was not wearing his hat and I could barely recognize him without it.

    I later asked if I could talk with him about my experiences so he pressed the record button and did an interview. I also told him later that I had been blocked from getting on the forum so he took care of it.

    Since then I've always appreciated the efforts of Bill and the moderators to keep the Avalon forum from becoming like "the others".

    So thanks be to them.

    TLC

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  33. Link to Post #18
    Avalon Member Lifebringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Yes the world was lied to, and the veils ar lifting on man/wombman.
    What's a pirate's favorite alphabet? Rrrr! not ar.
    Veils are lifting, blindfolds are off and they want to know who and how many.
    All of us are waking up at our own pace to learn.
    Last edited by Lifebringer; 4th September 2017 at 11:09. Reason: spellcheck

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  35. Link to Post #19
    Avalon Member Lifebringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    That's cool enhearting story/experience, proof of what we desire with good intent happens/is brought forth. We are connected, I believe before coming to Avalon and send that frequency drawing us together worldwide.
    Amazing!

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  37. Link to Post #20
    United States Avalon Member zen deik's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Avalon forum, wild stories, debunkers, courtesy, and open-mindedness

    Provable facts... Personal experience...not always easy... Being sensitive is..
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 4th September 2017 at 13:40. Reason: corrested a little typo that made a difference in the meaning. (THX!)
    ONLY THE END OF THE WORLD IS THE END OF THE WORLD AND THIS AIN'T IT

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