L. Ron Hubbard's Great-grandson slams The Church of Scientology as 'dangerous cult'

[Triandal]

Calls Scientology 'absolute poison'
Hunted down, investigated and had phone tapped by church
Claims founder L. Ron Hubbard spent his final days unhinged, lost and surrounded by 'dark security forces


Jamie DeWolf, the great-grandson of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, has come out with new explosive claims against the church and its controversial founder.

And it's not pretty.

'My family sees Scientology as absolute poison,' says Jamie DeWolf. 'It’s a dangerous cult.'


Jamie DeWolf, left, the great-grandson of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, right, has come out with new explosive claims against the church


He says that the church's influence undoubtedly lead to the break up of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' family as well

DeWolf’s great-grandfather, L. Ron Hubbard, created Scientology, and his grandfather, L. Ron Hubbard Jr., was a high-ranking member for most of his life.

'But he became disgusted about what he was seeing behind the curtain, so he left,' DeWolf tells the New York Post. 'For the rest of his life, he was hunted. And he couldn’t even have a relationship with his father.'

DeWolf says the Scientology founder 'became more and more unhinged in his last days. He was lost in his own little wonderland, surrounded by this armada, this dark security force. He was totally lost.'

When DeWolf was 8, he found a picture of his great-grandfather in a book about cults.

'Then I started to ask questions,' he said. 'Then I started to learn about this darker legacy.'


He claims that the church is dangerous cult


Mr DeWolf said that he never met his great-grandfather and had never been a member of the church

DeWolf, who was raised Baptist Christian, was warned about publicly admitting his connection to the group.

'My uncle said it was like poking a sleeping dog,' DeWolf said. 'The Scientologists didn’t know who I was or where I was, so why should I take the risk? My family was very wary.'

When he finally did come forward to share his story, DeWolf claims the Scientologists hunted him down.

'I had private investigators following me,' he said. 'It’s possible my phone line had been tapped. They fight nasty. Part of it actually is a certain malicious glee in going after their targets.'

He said it was definitely the cause for the split between Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.

'The more [Katie] saw behind the curtain,” he’s said, “the more horrified that she probably was.'


Mr DeWolf is grandson of Ron DeWolf, L. Ron Hubbard's eldest son, pictured left holding Jamie's mother


DeWolf said he has met people over the years that have shared similar stories with him.

'I’ve met people who’ve had 20 years of their lives utterly destroyed by this cult,' he said. 'They have relatives they can’t speak to any more, lost their kids, lost their house. It’s become very serious to me.

For me to even speak out on my own genetic legacy and to be aware that I could absolutely threatened and hunted for that, that really emboldened me. I’m not gonna die with these secrets and they should be exposed.

Source http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rous-cult.html

L. Ron Hubbard is a disgrace dont you think i think he loved to brain wash

[xion]

What I don't get is how can someone follow a person with a face like L.R. Hubbard.
Just by looking at the face you can see crazy all over, and when he opens his mouth is just cherry on the top.

Did people stop paying attention to human faces??

[kanishk]

Posted by xion (here)
What I don't get is how can someone follow a person with a face like L.R. Hubbard.
Just by looking at the face you can see crazy all over, and when he opens his mouth is just cherry on the top.

Did people stop paying attention to human faces??

hahaha..

Yes I look at faces.. and guess about them. But when I saw L Ron Hubbard's face on net for first time when searching on internet, I recognized that people are deliberately posting his awkward faces with some quotes below. So I guessed that people who are posting such posters are without integrity. Because if they have, they would have posted all of his good faces too..

[kanishk]

Posted by kanishk (here)

Posted by xion (here)
What I don't get is how can someone follow a person with a face like L.R. Hubbard.
Just by looking at the face you can see crazy all over, and when he opens his mouth is just cherry on the top.

Did people stop paying attention to human faces??

hahaha..

Yes I look at faces.. and guess about them. But when I saw L Ron Hubbard's face on net for first time when searching on internet, I recognized that people are deliberately posting his awkward faces with some quotes below. So I guessed that people who are posting such posters are without integrity. Because if they have, they would have posted all of his good faces too..

And yes.. I found many good places where scientology is criticized in a scientific manner, but there people don't post awkward pics of L Ron Hubbard. But what I found is lots and lots of discussion i.e. text.

[ExomatrixTV]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QCfk3qSj7Lw

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mcPoSo49dYU

[xion]

Posted by kanishk (here)

hahaha..

Yes I look at faces.. and guess about them. But when I saw L Ron Hubbard's face on net for first time when searching on internet, I recognized that people are deliberately posting his awkward faces with some quotes below. So I guessed that people who are posting such posters are without integrity. Because if they have, they would have posted all of his good faces too..

Don't jump to conclusion that I was just referring to pics posted in this thread. I've watched all those B/W interviews with that maniac. These pics with his awkward face posted deliberately or not doesn't change the fact that he's wearing a face of a crazy. Faces tell a story of a persons character.
And you saying he has a good face is just like slapping all those people whose lives were ruined by this maniacs imbecilic Scientology cult.
Those people need to be removed from the face of the planet and stop ruining peoples lives.
I just don't get why are so in defensive mod regarding that retard and his cult?

[Bluegreen]

How this organization stays operational is truly mystifying. I don't think they've been experiencing any "explosive growth" lately. The IRS has gone after and jailed religious leaders for far far less than David "The Inured One" Miscavige. Why?

My theory: It was infiltrated by the CIA when they determined that L Ron Hubbard had stumbled across something the PTB didn't want the general population to know about, Hubbard was replaced by a clone, and Scientology itself was turned into a money-hoarding real estate acquisition firm.

[Triandal]

One of the Bunker’s great contributors, Jeffrey Augustine, has put together for us a list of the biggest whoppers told by Scientology’s founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and a couple of canards thrown around by the church itself. We think you’re going to enjoy the collection Jeffrey put together for us…

1. The lie: “I happen to be a nuclear physicist; I am not a psychologist nor a psychiatrist nor a medical doctor.” — L. Ron Hubbard, in the 1952 lecture “Dianetics: The Modern Miracle.” Also found transcribed in the Research and Discovery series, Vol. 3 page 470, and New Tech Volumes, Vol. 5 page 143.
The truth: Hubbard flunked both high school and college, leaving after his sophomore year at George Washington University during which he failed a course of “Molecular and Atomic Physics.”

2. The lie: Hubbard was a “blood brother” of the Blackfoot nation.
The truth: Blood brotherhood was not a practice of the Blackfoot.

3. The lie: Hubbard slept with bandits in Mongolia, and traveled to India and Tibet.
The truth: Hubbard never traveled to those countries.

4. The lie: Hubbard was a “pioneering barnstormer at the dawn of aviation in America.”
The truth: As Jon Atack points out, Hubbard flew gliders in the early 1930s, which doesn’t really put Hubbard there with the Wright Brothers (1903) or Charles Lindbergh, who crossed the Atlantic in 1927.

5. The lie: Hubbard’s 1940 adventures in Alaska led to the development of LORAN, a radio-based system for navigation.
The truth: Alfred Lee Loomis invented LORAN (Long Range Aid to Navigation) in the 1920s and 1930s at Tuxedo Park in the US. Hubbard was not even remotely qualified to do any serious electrical engineering.

6. The lie: Hubbard created the US Air Force.
The truth: In 1941, Hubbard was one of many people offering free advice to government officials about how the US should prepare for a war the country seemed sure to get involved in. On June 30, Senator Pat McCarran of Nevada wrote a letter to Hubbard telling him the he would, indeed, push for a bill to create a US Air Force. But ten days earlier, the US Army Air Corps had already changed its name to the US Army Air Force. The US Air Force, under the name we know today, came into existence later, in 1947.

7. The lie: Hubbard claimed to have been awarded 21 or 27 combat medals in World War II as a navy lieutenant.
The truth: Hubbard never served a single day in combat and was never awarded any combat medals.

8. The lie: Hubbard was wounded in combat and was awarded two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star.
The truth: Hubbard’s US Navy service record shows that he never received Purple Hearts or a Bronze Star.

9. The lie: Hubbard was “returned home as the first American casualty of the war in the South Pacific.”
The truth: The US Naval Attache in Brisbane ordered Hubbard returned to the US for being meddlesome and quarrelsome.

10. The lie: Hubbard was a “commander of corvettes” in the North Atlantic.
The truth: Hubbard was assigned command of navy yard patrol vessel YP-422 in Boston Harbor. However, he was relieved of command before the vessel was commissioned after getting into an argument with the Commandant of the Navy Yard.

11. The lie: Hubbard fought German U-Boats in the North Atlantic.
The truth: No he didn’t.

12. The lie: Hubbard was machine-gunned in the back by Japanese soldiers on the Indonesian island of Java.
The truth: Not even close.

13. The lie: Hubbard escaped from Java with a fellow spy in a rubber raft and drifted 2,000 miles back to Australia.
The truth: As if.

14. The lie: Hubbard sank a Japanese submarine after a battle that lasted 35 hours.
The truth: He actually launched depth charges at a magnetic deposit on the ocean floor off the coast of Oregon.

15. The lie: At the end of the war, Hubbard had “an almost non-existent future” because he’d been “crippled and blinded.”
The truth: Hubbard was actually in good enough shape after a stay at the Oak Knoll Naval Hospital in Oakland that instead of heading north to his wife and two children in Washington, he went south to Pasadena to join Jack Parsons in his Thelemic sex magick rituals. Hubbard promptly took Jack’s girlfriend Sara Northrup away from him and eventually married her — even though he was still married to his first wife, Polly.

16. The lie: In a lecture, Hubbard described English occultist Aleister Crowley as his “good friend.”
The truth: Hubbard never met or corresponded with Crowley. Reading about Hubbard in letters from Jack Parsons, Crowley wrote to a friend, “Apparently Parsons or Hubbard or somebody is producing a moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts.”

17. The lie: Hubbard was actually participating in sex magick rites as an undercover spy from US Naval Intelligence, sent in to break up Black Magic in America.
The truth: There’s no evidence of this claim, which was put out by the Church of Scientology. Hubbard’s son Nibs confirmed years later that his father had a deep interest in the occult and sex magick.

18. The lie: Hubbard’s 1950 book Dianetics claims from the start that it was “a milestone for man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his invention of the wheel and the arch.”
The truth: 65 years later, Dianetics has failed to deliver on even its most basic claims.

19. The lie: In Dianetics, Hubbard said that following his counseling techniques, “Arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away.”
The truth: With no proof that Dianetics and its successor, Scientology, cured anything, in 1971 Hubbard settled with the Food and Drug Administration by putting a label on all “E-meters” that it was not a tool for the diagnosis of any disease.

20. The lie: Dianetics promised the state of “Clear,” which would include “complete recall of everything which has ever happened to him or anything he has ever studied.”
The truth: When Hubbard introduced his first “Clear” in August 1950, she was unable to remember what she had eaten on certain days, or even the color of the tie Hubbard was wearing. Hubbard didn’t claim to produce another Clear until 1966.

21. The lie: “Dr.” L. Ron Hubbard earned a Ph.D. from Sequoia University.
The truth: Sequoia was a notorious diploma mill which awarded bogus degrees based on no coursework or exams.

22. The lie: “I never had a second wife.”
The truth: While married to his third wife, Mary Sue Whipp, Hubbard made this bizarre claim in 1968 to Granada Television about Sara Northrup, who he badly wanted to erase from his life.

23. The Lie: On January 27, 1986 Scientology attorney Earle Cooley told the assembled crowd of church members at the Hollywood Palladium that L. Ron Hubbard had been in perfect health on January 24 when he decided to drop his body in order to move on to do higher levels of spiritual research to which his physical body was an impediment.
The Truth: Hubbard was in very poor health at the end of his life. Hubbard had a stroke about a week before his death. Following this stroke, Dr. Gene Denk gave Hubbard intramuscular injections of Vistaril, a psychiatric medication. About a week later Hubbard died alone in his Bluebird motor home, located on his remote ranch.

24. The lie: A person can be a member of any religion and still be a Scientologist.
The truth: In its application for its 1993 tax exemption, the Church told the IRS: “Although there is no policy or Scriptural mandate expressly requiring Scientologists to renounce other religious beliefs or membership in other churches, as a practical matter Scientologists are expected to and do become fully devoted to Scientology to the exclusion of other faiths. As Scientologists, they are required to look only to Scientology Scriptures for the answers to the fundamental questions of their existence and to seek enlightenment only from Scientology. Thus, a Scientologist who grew up in the Jewish faith who continues formal membership in his synagogue and attends services with his family violates no Scientology policy or tenet. On the other hand, such a person is not permitted to mix the practice of his former faith into his practice and understanding of Scientology so as to alter orthodox Scientology in any way.”

25. The lie: Disconnection is a personal choice made by individual Scientologists.
The truth: No….It….Isn’t.

— Jeffrey Augustine

http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/07/25-...f-scientology/

[Triandal]

Have you encountered a stress test booth in your community? Or maybe you were approached by someone offering a free personality test. These services might seem harmless if you do not realize the connection between Dianetics, Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard. A book sale may be followed by courses and more counseling services. Before you know it, you are caught in the money-making scheme of a fraudulent organization that ruins lives.



THE DIANETICS SCAM: A GATEWAY INTO THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY


Dianetics is a dangerous pseudoscience, not a legitimate mental health therapy. It is designed to find a person's weaknesses and exploit them for the sake of profit. Services on an E-meter may seem harmless at first, but the situation can quickly become financially draining, since Dianetics serves as a gateway into the Church of Scientology psychotherapy cult. This deceptive self-help system was crafted by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, a convicted criminal and con man, for his own personal gain. Hubbard’s legacy continues to this day, with his Dianetics theories serving as the initial indoctrination step into costly Scientology beliefs and practices.

This website attempts to expose the Dianetics pseudoscience scam by revealing its empty promises, lack of scientific evidence and common recruiting methods. Questions were raised about whether Hubbard had been practicing unlicensed medicine, and we will examine how he avoided the issue with his creation of a destructive cult. We will also cover why the Scientology founder was so crazy and learn what the real truth is behind the Church of Scientology's deceptive propaganda.

WHAT IS DIANETICS?
Dianetics is a set of ideas and practices regarding the metaphysical relationship between the mind and body which was created by L. Ron Hubbard and is practiced by followers of Scientology. Hubbard coined Dianetics from the Greek stems dia, meaning "through", and nous, meaning mind.

Dianetics divides the mind into three parts: the conscious "analytical mind," the subconscious "reactive mind", and the somatic mind. The goal of Dianetics is to remove the "reactive mind", which Scientologists believe prevents people from becoming more ethical, more aware, happier and saner. The Dianetics procedure to achieve this is called "auditing". Auditing is a process whereby a series of questions are asked by the Scientology auditor, in an attempt to rid the auditee of the painful experiences of the past which scientologists believe to be the cause of the "reactive mind." -- Excerpt from Wikipedia: Dianetics as of January, 2013.

IS IT REALLY THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH?
Another basic assumption [in Dianetics] was that all answers are simple. In order to make the facts agree with that assumption, he then proceeds to simplify and oversimplify until everything is just an "engram". An "engram", from the description, appears to be what psychiatrists years ago called "memory trace".

The technique of using old psychoanalytical concepts under new names is frequently followed, and the idea that it is possible to change something by giving it a new name is clung to throughout [Hubbard's book on Dianetics]. ...

The use of such vague terms and even vaguer concepts abounds in Hubbard's presentation of his theory. They are significant in that they serve to obscure the real fallacies of Dianetics. -- Excerpt from Dianetics: Can it Help You or Harm You? by Oscar Sachs, M.D. as published in Why: the magazine of popular psychology, in 1950.

WHY IS DIANETICS SO DANGEROUS?
From a psychoanalytic point of view, one is willing to overlook the fact that Hubbard presents no conception of human relationships, that he has no psychodynamic point of view. One can also forgive him for encouraging neurotic people to avoid all professional sources of help, and even for deluding people into expecting salvation through guaranteed solutions for their problems. After all, there have been many other "faiths," movements, or special therapies which have failed to fulfill these criteria and have still helped people where the experts have failed.

The real and, to me, inexcusable danger in dianetics lies in its conception of the amoral, detached, 100 per cent efficient mechanical man - superbly free-floating, unemotional, and unrelated to anything. This is the authoritarian dream, a population of zombies, free to be manipulated by the great brains of the founder, the leader of the inner manipulative clique. Fortunately for us this is an unattainable dream, on the rocks of which every great authoritarian leader has sooner or later met his fate. We have learned by this time that a human being cannot exist without effective human relationships, which must fulfill some of his healthy emotional dependencies; and that mechanical, detached self-sufficiency does not exist except in a psychotic state. -- Excerpt from Dianetics: A Cure for All Ills, 1950 book review by Milton R. Sapirstein, M.D. as published in The Nation.

WHAT DID HUBBARD'S MEDICAL EXPERT SAY ABOUT DIANETICS?
By October, 1950, I had come to the conclusion that I could not agree with all the tenets of dianetics as set forth by the Foundation. I could not, as previously mentioned, support Hubbard's claims regarding the state of "clear." I no longer felt, as I once had, that any intelligent person could (and presumably should) practice dianetics. I noted several points on which the actions of the Foundation were at variance with the expressed ideals of dianetics: one of these points was a tendency toward the development of an authoritarian attitude. Moreover, there was a poorly concealed attitude of disparagement of the medical profession and of the efforts of previous workers in the field of mental illness. Finally, the avowed purpose of the Foundation -- the accomplishment of precise scientific research into the functioning of the mind -- was conspicuously absent.

I expressed my opinion on these matters to the Board of Trustees on several occasions, with no discernible effect. Nor was I alone in my disagreement with the Foundation policies; those of us who advocated a more conservative attitude were in the minority, however, and our efforts were unavailing. I therefore, felt it incumbent upon me to submit my resignation. [...]

I feel also that medical practice might be improved by utilization of some of the observations which have been noted in dianetics. However, in order to make any new idea acceptable to the medical profession, it should be presented in a scientific manner. That, I fear, is not going to happen so long as the Foundation pursues its present policies. [...]

Even a wrong answer is closer to the truth than an apathetic "I don't know"; a wrong answer can be proved to be wrong, and the correct answer sought, while unquestioning ignorance or hopelessness leads only to stagnation. -- Excerpt from A Doctor's Report on Dianetics: Theory and Therapy by J. A. Winter, MD first published in 1951.

UNDERSTANDING DIANETICS

Part 1: Introducing the Scam

Part 2: Empty Promises

Part 3: Lack of Scientific Evidence

Part 4: Common Recruiting Methods

MORE ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY

Part 1: The Creation of the Cult

Part 2: Its Crazy Founder

Part 3: The Truth Exposed

I pray for the brainwashed.http://thedianeticsscam.weebly.com/ This sick man planted the seed you know and now others follow a different form of Scientology practices that are just as dangerous.

[Bill Ryan]

.
An important clarification here.

The Church of Scientology is extremely dangerous. A cult, poisonous for sure, and even that's an understatement.

Meanwhile, and entirely separately, the original processes, when ethically and correctly applied, can change lives. In good hands, they can do much more than that, as well.

In 1982, literally thousands of highly trained Church members all jumped ship, horrified at what was happening. It's a group of those that stayed that did all the subsequent damage.

For more (and there's a LOT more), see this page, read it all, and take time to visit the links at the bottom of the page for further clarifications and information:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

[Triandal]

Dane tops the great whistleblower, which resulted in tens of thousands of members realizing what was going on.

His conspiracy theories must be rejected until proven. At least the letter catalyzed a mass exodus of thousands of highly trained, talented and loyal Scientologists which was a blessing or was it.

[Carmody]

NO.

Not rejected.

Considered.

For all the right reasons.

I'll not have someone dropping in here.... and thrusting NLP crap at me, right here on this forum. Not a chance. I'll call it out when I see it.

[Triandal]

Considered are you being serious?

In 1982, literally thousands of highly trained Church members all jumped ship,

Maybe they need to set up some special school like in the xmen.


NLP crap i think not.You mam are talking complete and utter crap for even considering this complete and utter nonsense based on your ongoing belief system.

So this is where all the followers on of Scientology chip in.Amazing how many humans witness things but are never able to record it.Word of mouth comes to mind.

When you check this link out. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...entology01.htm

Just how many people still believe in this?

Well, in Scientology, they had grades you went through where you progressed from ability to ability to ability, and so Ingo Swann was going through those grades, those levels.

There was a magazine that was put out by the Church of Scientology where people that went through these levels would write things that they experienced. Almost every month Ingo was in this magazine with what he had done next, alongside others who were also getting these sorts of results.

People who would report their results, such as moving a car sideways to avoid an auto accident, seeing through walls, going out of the body with all the perception to see and hear, levitating themselves, making things materialize, like that [snaps fingers], healing a chronic illness or a personal relationship that seemed to have been permanently destroyed.

There were some extraordinary healing stories. Later he had to retract any claims that the techniques could heal due to the AMA [American Medical Association] and the psyches [psychiatrists], with whom he ended up in a lifelong battle. At first he offered his discoveries to psychiatry, until he realized that many psyches just wanted to drug people, do lobotomies and use electric shock.

Then he organized his own black ops within his organization in order to expose harmful psychiatric practices with so-called “healing” techniques. His organization spied on the IRS and published records of their crimes. He sent infiltrators from his Church into the IRS to spy. They were quite successful.

Although the governments had not succeeded in hiring Hubbard, they did hire Scientologists who had demonstrated paranormal abilities. They were not hard to find because Scientology published articles about what people were achieving.

Still awaiting the evidence in video form.I cant believe people still believe in this nonsense.But hey if it serves purpose to those who follow then they are doing their job correctly.Its a shame and a sham in a way as i have noticed on many forums that people are very easily led on what they should believe in and those who go against it become the outcast.Its time to wake up my friends and smell the BS we have been conditioned to believe from a select few.A kind of psychological manipulation

[Bill Ryan]

.
Triandal has been unsubscribed. The reason given (a note we have the option to add when toggling the software in the database, which he will see next time he logs in), was:

You're a new member, and have shown little respect, or willingness to listen and learn. This is not the right forum for you, and we wish you well.

[kanishk]

Posted by xion (here)
I just don't get why are so in defensive mod regarding that retard and his cult?

Xion, its logical that its because they really found something that changed their life, the happiness, a truly spiritual path which is so methodological like mathematics that they can reach to great heights of spiritual wisdom.

Of course this realization by them lead them to be loyal too the organization that L Ron Hubbard created but is taken over by reptilian souls. So there unawareness keeps them to be loyal to that church. But seeing that for so many years they are just not improving in their spiritual path as one can feel by reading the books of L Ron Hubbard they finally find that what they are getting from that church is not scientology, and the organization based on L Ron Hubbard philosophy would not function like such, and finally find out people who are practicing the philosophical techniques developed by L Ron Hubbard outside the Church of Scientology.

Many of them don't want to call themselves scientologist, because calling oneself scientologist would mean he is connected to Church of Scientology in general terms. Many people developed such techniques from the teaching of LRH that people who hate L Ron Hubbard like you, are using such techniques having other names to evolve spiritually, but don't know it is actually brought to humanity by L Ron Hubbard.

I know people who are considered ugly but are so good at heart look so bright and beautiful. Just look around for such people you can find simple looking faces are much more beautiful, when their hearts are beautiful. Eventually you will find people who you used to consider beautiful are not actually that beautiful and by looking at their faces you can find their impurities and can have empathy for that too.

[xion]

When you say its logical to be in defensive mod regarding that retard and his cult, its just beyond me.

Just to be clear, I've never stated that I hate him as I don't have room nor time for hate him or anybody. Hate is just a waste of emotion.
On the other hand I've never said he's ugly (non the less he's a an ungly guy), I've said that his face radiates crazy and so are his speeches.

There are differences, huge differences between an ugly kind face and an ugly maniacal lying face.
What you're stating here is just superficial regarding his looks.
Even if we disregard his appearance, his speeches are not just beyond crazy its idiotic.
Who in his right mind would follow a person that speaks about an alien called "Xenu, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who 75 million years ago brought billions of his people to Earth".
Come on. Like you want to do something with this person.
I mean, when you hear someone talk like that you just turn around and walk away. Far far away.
You don't engage in conversation, and you just don't hop on the crazy wagon.
If Scientology is something that brings "happiness" and is a truly spiritual path, it would be so wide spread over the world that other religions would cease to exist.
But its not.
It's a scam.
It traps people inside.
It brings sadness not happiness.
It's spiritual like ISIS is.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by kanishk (here)

Many of them don't want to call themselves scientologists, because calling oneself a scientologist would mean he is connected to Church of Scientology in general terms. Many people developed such techniques from the teaching of LRH that people [...] are using such techniques having other names to evolve spiritually, but don't know it is actually brought to humanity by L Ron Hubbard.

1) Acknowledging that there's a very large amount of truth in this. ^^

2) Always differentiate the 'Church' (rotten to the core, and also dangerous) from the techniques and processes, which, when correctly and ethically applied, absolutely work.

A knife, for instance (or a welding torch, a laser, or a box of firelighters!) can be used for anything at all. Depends who's holding it, and what their intentions are.

Lumping all this together is like confusing a corrupt and malevolent auto repair shop, say, that's actually a Mafia front business that does dangerously shoddy and overcharged work, with the sets of tools in the toolboxes. That would be to compare apples with, maybe, ball bearings. (Not even apples and oranges! )

A personal note. I'm happy to answer questions on the subject: as many readers know, I know quite a bit about all this. I was never a member of the 'Church', but I do know that some other Avalon members (often pretty low key about it) have been, though they were able to escape quite a while back. They, too, know a lot.

[DNA]

This thread is the only material I've seen from Triandal, and although his opinion may have come off as strong, I feel his heart was in the right place. He kept his opinion topic oriented, as such I didn't feel he was personally attacking anyone.
Bottom line scientology is ruining lives and they are in the brainwashing cult business, as such regardless of what they were or what they once offered, they should be fair game.
Bill you made an analogy that was pretty good, I've got one for you.
Josef Mengele is single handedly responsible for more medical break throughs than any other doctor of medicine from the 20th century.
Would you kick someone off the forum for pointing out the horrors of Josef Mengele and ignoring whatever contributions to science Mengele made?
What if this same forum member had a family member or members that were directly affected by what Mengele did?
Could be the same thing with regards to scientology. Me personally, I don't really care, but if I had a family member directly affected I'm sure I would.
As long as someone is staying on topic and not attacking anyone personally, I do not feel there is a reason to ban them from the forum.
It's your forum, and you can of course do what you will.
Have a good day.

[Agape]

Posted by DNA (here)
This thread is the only material I've seen from Triandal, and although his opinion may have come off as strong, I feel his heart was in the right place. He kept his opinion topic oriented, as such I didn't feel he was personally attacking anyone.
Bottom line scientology is ruining lives and they are in the brainwashing cult business, as such regardless of what they were or what they once offered, they should be fair game.
Bill you made an analogy that was pretty good, I've got one for you.
Josef Mengele is single handedly responsible for more medical break throughs than any other doctor of medicine from the 20th century.
Would you kick someone off the forum for pointing out the horrors of Josef Mengele and ignoring whatever contributions to science Mengele made?
What if this same forum member had a family member or members that were directly affected by what Mengele did?
Could be the same thing with regards to scientology. Me personally, I don't really care, but if I had a family member directly affected I'm sure I would.
As long as someone is staying on topic and not attacking anyone personally, I do not feel there is a reason to ban them from the forum.
It's your forum, and you can of course do what you will.
Have a good day.

All deep analogies , can't be denied ..

something - a set of circumstances you may say - forced me to have a deeper look to the SciOrg materials recently and I believe I'm inches close to cracking ( nope ) its true meaning .

Now this statement I fear is enough to send Bill and few millions Sci- practitioners for laughing fit for ..few days at least ..if not longer

never mind .

Lets presume some extremely witty entity will be reading the PA forum in next couple of decades and get this right .

Please read the beginning ( and the rest ) of this short 22 pages booklet for reference .

https://issuu.com/damminhhung/docs/history-of-earth

Elron Elroy ( Elray , but only if you insist ) is real entity , an ET entity ( I claim, this time ). It's supposedly L Rons Hubbard 'spiritual name' and he goes on recalling his past lives on other planets but I seem to know the name ,
and the Being .

They're not 'greys' exactly . He belongs to cluster of civilisations that are commonly recognised here as 'greys' but their various factions fought war against each other , long before they ever came to Earth.

I'll skip over few details for now but while many of us would label his philosophy and methods as 'unsuitable for humans' , the trick is on the truth' side ,
he wasn't 'human'. The method of identifying and disciplining people the way he organised here would work perfectly with his native group ,
and similar entities, not humans. Here, it works only with kids or very pure minded humans but even then , it does not/can not turn them to other biological/psychological species.

His motivation may have been unilateral , fighting a faction of his civilisation cluster attempting to insert their controls and influence to the evolution of humankind

but , it could also have been extrapolation of his own ET mind , unstoppable from expressing its potential.


Well, and while I know of humans .. and their true nature .. and why they won't benefit greatly from those methods unless it's turn them to highly disciplined, perfected and monotonous entities ..
( ya know humans )
there're always good few greys around to benefit and rise their mental standards and get it all CLEAR.



P.S. : Anyone getting mad at me by looks , please don't . I care of my own deep insights , not of yours ..


Must see :

EXCLUSIVE: Pictured up close for the first time, Scientology's 'alien space cathedral and spaceship landing pad' built in the New Mexico desert for the 'return of followers after Armageddon on Earth'

MailOnline can today reveal the first close-up pictures of the Church of Scientology's 'alien space cathedral' built in a remote part of the New Mexico desert.
The mysterious building which leads to an underground vault sits next to two giant symbols carved into the ground - believed to be markers for the religion's followers to find their way back from the ends of the universe after humanity is destroyed in the future.
While no one knows the definite meaning of the pair of overlapping circles, each with a diamond in them, it is believed to have been trademarked by the Church of Technology, a branch of Scientology.
Scroll down for video

Damanhur , Temples of Mankind virtual tour .

[regnak]

If you actually believe Bill banned him for "being against scientology" as you stated verbatim, you need to try harder to find reasoning and motivation. To find reasoning and motivation is half the journey in finding the answers to all truths and conspiracies even. It needs to be part of the equation in order for appropriate evaluation or critical thinking to occur.

I'm not going to support nor argue Bill's ban decision, but I will say, the person who was banned reminded me of a child with his hands over his ears screaming his beliefs to everyone - at this point I don't care what he has to say. I like to think Avalon has grown up passed that point. There are infinite ways people can carry themselves, I don't know why some people's ego and arrogance would be so big that this is how they would respond to a post of someone not only with more info on the topic than most here, but towards the founder of the forum. He could have said his piece in a million non-offensive ways, but either purposely chose, or does not have the maturity to do so.

My guess he was targeting Bill, so he can get banned, and go off and write some one page blog about how "Project Avalon is controlled by the Church of Scientology" where other ex-members can go and also bash this forum and its members. I've seen this happen a lot actually - the topics on these things are always Jews and Scientology, interestingly enough.

A small amount of poking around shows me Bill made the right decision.

maybe I was wrong to say was Bill Ryan right to ban him ?

Strange really Bill Ryan bans someone for being against Scientology but Ron´s Org which I think you are a member is against Scientology . I know very little about Scientology as all I ever seen of it is a dangerous cult and this is your website
your rules but he was against Scientology having a discussion of the dangers of this organisation and he gets banned .