Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Tesseract]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes

Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Hmmmm and what "other" type of weaponry is Israel using to achieve it? Is it "Iron Beam,"? A Tesla-based particle beam weapon (also discussed in the latest Series 7 Episode 2 of Ancient Aliens)? This photo is allegedly "a recent attack" on Gaza... what IS THIS?

Attachment 26703


The EricsonReport website shows this image of an unusual explosion which allegedly hit Gaza recently, posing the question, "what kind of weapon does this?" Ideas anyone?

http://www.ericsonreport.com/what-ki...pon-does-this/

(Apologies for getting off topic)

It would be better if we knew the exposure of the camera that captured that frame.

Given the intense white light being emitted by the material arcing away from the center, it is reasonable to argue that the temperature of that material is extremely high, probably thousands of degrees. That suggests an incindiary material, like thermite, air-magnesium, air-aluminum, or similar. Alternatively, if you want to take the view of this being some kind of neoteric weapon - it suggests the material at the strike point was heated up to extreme temperatures and is being sputtered away.

But, I don't think it is a laser or particle beam, since the incoming trajectory appears to be influenced by gravity, and see image below (not sure if this is the same event):



The above image is described as an Israeli rocket by the guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...t-live-updates


This video shows what are also described as Israeli rockets flying over the gazs strip at night:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pFdBtZgnHlE

You can imagine if the exposure of the camera was high enough, and the point of view close enough, the path of such a 'rocket' would appear as a bright, slightly curved streak - which is does.

An incindiary warhead might be designed to cause ignition of any ammunition at the scene of the attack. This is what happened when depleted Uranium was fired into Iraqi tanks in the gulf war - the white hot tiny fragments of dU would set off the tank rounds and blow up the tank. Or this might just be a new incindiary weapon that Israel is testing for the sake of it, which is something they use their attacks on Gaza for. It could even be one of the US-made white phosphorous tank shells (although angle of incidence looks a little too high for that).

[Observer1964]

Video showing how manipulated info was used at the united nations speech

http://www.czarina.nl/petersburg/ins...informatie.mp4

[Operator]

Posted by Observer1964 (here)
Video showing how manipulated info was used at the united nations speech

http://www.czarina.nl/petersburg/ins...informatie.mp4

That's why you have to be very aware how you are going to appear in the media. In this video we see
examples of how media is exploited to fabricate negative or positive impressions.
(That's why operators prefer to work behind the cameras )

Now I think that Timmermans knows very well what happened with Jaap de Hoop Scheffer (also a
minister of foreign affairs) after he as one of the first visited Bush to support plans to invade Iraq.



Shortly after that he was appointed as secretary-general of the NATO from 2004 till 2009. And
according Wikipedia he then also became a frequent visitor of Bilderberg (2003, 2005, 2007 en 2009).

So ... while for open goal ... scoring a goal looks good on your resume, perhaps a nice function in
the EU someday. I think he might even not be acting this out, he really believes he's doing the right
thing ... perhaps even more dangerous

[sigma6]

This would explain why it appears to have "exploded" while there is no evidence of a missile trail from anyone's satellite imagery, and supports the SU-25 trailing the plane, or an Israeli fighter, since by now it's pretty obvious SOMEONE has pretty sophisticated RADAR JAMMING technology.

Revelations of German Pilot:
Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17.
“Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-...n-mh17/5394111

The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

(click on image to get a close-up pdf downloadable image file)


Unfortunately this IS the war... If we are smart enough to accept it, and they can only shoot down so many planes... People will have to die. The question is are we going to allow the deaths of a few hundred people (that we can't stop until the people pull their heads out of the sand) or are we going to start a war that will cause hundreds of thousands of deaths.

I just read that Norway now has NO DEBT. So despite the Oslo Norway attack by the nutjob Freemason who was supposed to don the Police uniform AFTER KILLING the kids... remember how within minutes the Media was already calling it a Muslim terrorist attack REMEMBER that!!... This is one SCANDAL the Media wants people to forget about... The guy gave away their whole modus operandi and admitted being connected to an organization. All ignored by the police, courts, and media (all Freemason controlled)

Anyhow that may have been the reason for the attack... They weren't playing ball. So some people died, the terrorist threat didn't work. And NOW they are debt free, and they control their corporations, NOT the other way around...

US Fiscal Debate Could Learn From Norway
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/14...rn-from-norway

[Hervé]

...

No bullet holes...

Front landing gear bay door:


https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts

[Hervé]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

Now, somewhere in this thread, there is a post that mentioned or linked to one of these TV series that demonstrate or debunk urban legends as depicted in Hollywood movies.

One of the thing they set to settle was to verify if a bullet shot through the fuselage would end up creating a catastrophic depressurization and rip a plane apart as Hollywood so loves to do.

[...]

All right, found the reference:


Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It

by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

Scroll down for our update on “explosive decompression” and aircraft cannon coverage. Simply put, shrapnel or “fragmentation” can’t blow an airplane apart. Bullets have little effect and even blowing out a door or window won’t do much. However, a moderate bomb can do much, as you can check below. A bigger bomb now seems to be the answer and, just perhaps, the missile seen below as a way of trying to blame Russia.

Read the new material supplied by Los Alamos National Labs. If you have questions, list them and we will endeavor to get you the answers.

Reporting on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 has become childish, irresponsible and many have actually decided to invent wild stories even worse than the government/AIPAC lies.

Some such stories are on Veterans Today, stories totally unresearched, stories that are groundless and based on speculation and bad brain chemistry. Such stories push our editorial limits as they are no more than spam.

We have made note of several findings thus far. We have noted that were a missile used, an exhaust trail would have been visible for many miles and would have been photographed. It was not and, thus, never existed. Locals were questioned, none saw a launch nor exhausts.


[...]

Explosive Decompression from “Shrapnel” Debunked

Explosive decompression (ED) refers to a sudden marked drop in the pressure of a system that occurs in less than 0.1 seconds, associated with explosive violence.

Generally it results from some sort of material fatigue or engineering failure, causing a contained system to suddenly vent into the external atmosphere.

Seals in high pressure vessels are also susceptible to explosive decompression; the rubber gaskets used to seal pressurized pipelines tend to become saturated with high-pressure gases. If the pressure inside the vessel is suddenly released, then the gases within the rubber gasket may expand violently, causing blistering or explosion of the material. For this reason, it is common for military and industrial equipment to be subjected to an explosive decompression test before it is certified as safe for use.

The pressure drop in other situations often takes longer than 0.1 second, and is then more accurately described as rapid decompression. Well known examples of explosive decompression are the Buford Dolphin diving bell accident and the Turkish Airlines Flight 981 disaster.

Misunderstandings of the meaning of the words are quite likely to be a fueling factor for a persistent myth that humans would explode if exposed to the non-pressure of space. Accidents in space exploration research and high-altitude aviation have shown that while vacuum exposure causes swelling, human skin is tough enough to handle a drop of one ATM [1 Atmosphere = barometric pressure at sea level]. A sudden drop of eight ATM in the Buford Dolphin accident had intensely fatal results.

Source(s):
National and international standards for explosive decompression testing include:
MIL-STD-810, 202
RTCA/D0-160
NORSOK M710
API 17K and 17J
NACE TM0192 and TM0297
TOTALELFFINA SP TCS 142 Appendix
———————————————————————————————————————————
Aloha Airlines Flight 243 Fuselage of Aloha Airlines Flight 243 after the explosive decompression.

Accident summary:
Date..................... 28 April 1988
Summary............... Explosive decompression caused by fatigue failure
Site...................... Kahului, Hawaii
Passengers............ 90
Crew.................... 5
Injuries (non-fatal). 65
Fatalities.............. 1
Survivors.............. 94
Aircraft type......... Boeing 737-297
Aircraft name........ Queen Liliuokalani
Operator.............. Aloha Airlines Registration N73711
Flight origin.......... Hilo Int’l Airport (ITO)
Destination.......... Honolulu Int’l Airport (HNL


Aloha Airlines Flight 243 (AQ 243, AAH 243) was a scheduled Aloha Airlines flight between Hilo and Honolulu in Hawaii. On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression in flight, but was able to land safely at Kahuna Airport on Maui. There was one fatality, flight attendant Clara belle “C.B.” Lansing, who was swept overboard from the airplane. Another 65 passengers and crew were injured.

The safe landing of the aircraft despite the substantial damage inflicted by the decompression established Aloha Airlines Flight 243 as a significant event in the history of aviation, with far-reaching effects on aviation safety policies and procedures.

——————————————————————————————————————————

The Truth About Explosive Decompression

By Deena Barker on July 7, 2004

Is it true that if you shoot a bullet through the skin of an airliner in flight, everyone would get sucked out the little hole? If not, Hollywood has a lot of explaining to do.

Adam and Jamie from Myth busters on the Discovery Channel set out the other night to find out if this was true. The myth is based on the fact that an airliner at 35,000 feet is like a balloon flying through the air — the air pressure on the inside (pushing out against the inside of the plane) is much higher than the ambient air pressure at that altitude.

When you pierce the skin of a balloon with a pin, the whole thing pops. The pressurized air inside the balloon rushes out with such force that it “grabs” the edges of the hole as it leaves and tears the balloon apart in an instant. The same should be true for an airliner, right? And everything in the plane should go rushing out the hole, right?

No. Myth busters proved this wasn’t the case, thus proving wrong several dozen action movies and at least one James Bond film. And, true to Myth buster’s style, they proved this point with a veritable tidal wave of geekiness.

They went to an airline graveyard in the Mohave Desert and found an old Hawaiian Airlines 737. They sealed it up, then brought in a massive air compressor and pumped the plane full of air until the difference between the interior of the plane and the air at sea level was the same as it would be if the plane was flying at 35,000 feet.

Now the cool part — inside the plane, they had parked their crash-test dummy, Buster, in a window seat. In the aisle, they rigged up a Glock 9mm to a firing mechanism and pointed it at the hull of the plane. Then, with the plane fully pressurized, they fired the gun remotely.

What happened? Nothing. Sure, the air rushed out, but even Styrofoam peanuts they had placed in the aisle didn’t move, much less Buster. They did the test a second time, this time firing through the window right next to Buster. Same result — nothing.

Not satisfied (I love it when they’re not satisfied…), they rigged explosive cord around the window to simulate the window blowing out due to structural failure. They pressurized the plane again and blew the window.

The results were much more satisfying — Buster got his arm yanked out the window. Crash test dummies aren’t designed to come apart, but if he were a human, I think he would have lost his arm. However, the rest of his body just wasn’t going through the window, no matter what the myth said.

Still not satisfied, Adam and Jamie put a “shaped charge” (whatever that is) against the hull next to Buster’s knee. Plane pressurized once again, they blew the charge.

Now, I don’t know how much damage was from the charge and how much was from the air rushing out, but the entire roof came off the plane. Buster, believe it or not, was still belted in his chair, but there was a 20-foot section of the roof missing. That plane was toast, and it looked eerily similar to Aloha Airlines flight 243 that lost its roof in mid-flight back in 1988.

So, myth busted.

However, they didn’t address one thing: the drop in air pressure caused by the velocity of the air outside the plane. You see, the entire concept of flight is based on the fact that air pressure goes down as the speed of the air goes up.

So when a hole gets blown in the side of the plane, even after all the air rushes out and the pressure of the plane is equal to the ambient air pressure at that altitude, you now have 600 m.p.h. air rushing past the hole, which would have a much lower air pressure than the stationary air inside the plane.
———————————————————————————————————————————

So... Kiev and "Black-Box" interpreters may not be lying at all... if they are making a pun on the word "EXPLOSIVE" as in catastrophic decompression generated by an on-board bomb....

[Cidersomerset]

A Bit of Ethnic cleansing being discussed 1.5 million surplus people in
the Donetsk region.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bogdan Boutkevitch: You need to kill 1.5 million people in Donbass, Eastern Ukraine

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:14 By david-icke



‘Taken from the Ukrainian TV Station hromadske TV,
financed by the Dutch and US Embassies in Kiev.’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S9SOVarOFJk

====================================================


This may have already been posted in parts.......



Kiev’s U.S. ‘Satellite Images’ of Ukraine Are From A ‘Video Game’!

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:05 By david-icke



‘Frames issued by the Ukrainian media as recordings by American satellites are the
screenshots of the computer game Flaming Cliffs 2.

This is not the first time that the Ukrainian side, distorting facts, gives some
pictures or videos for others.’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=p3ixCCfb7eU

The U.S. Has Repeatedly Lied About Satellite Photographs as a Justification for War





‘U.S. government claims that satellite photographs prove that Russian separatists
are responsible for the shootdown of the Malaysian airplane over Ukraine, and that
Russia has fired artillery into Ukraine.


Russia claims that the photos are fake.

While we don’t have the necessary expertise to know who’s right, it’s worth noting
that the U.S. government has repeatedly lied about satellite photos as a basis for
war.’

Read more …

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-u-s-...n-for-war.html

[Cidersomerset]

Evidence Conclusive: Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 In False Flag Operation

Monday 4th August 2014 at 09:12 By david-icke





‘There is now a growing body of irrefutable evidence which points directly to the MH17 shoot
down being a classic false flag operation. Each piece of evidence definitively places at least
three nations at the scene of both the crime and the cover-up.

Whereas the Ukraine government and military executed this cold-blooded murder of innocent
civilians, most likely under the direct supervision of the CIA, the US and UK governments have
been implementing the non-stop coverup and false flag operation.’

What follows is a step-by-step refutation of the fake evidence advanced by the US, as well as
a presentation of the true facts of this heinous crime. The chronology of events is particularly
telling in how it chisels out the circumstantial, yet solid case, against the US/UK and Ukraine
as co-conspirators.


Rather than deconstruct each element of this fastidiously planned and coordinated conspiracy
to shoot down a commercial airliner, the following headlines are presented in a manner that
tell the real story. First, a short summary of the key evidences:


Summary of Evidence

Malaysian Flight MH17, a Boeing 777 carrying a diverse group of civilian nationals, departed
from Amsterdam en route to the Indonesian city of Jogjakarta. At some point upon entering
Ukraine airspace it’s flight path was deliberately changed. As the airliner neared the area of
the Eastern Ukraine, where rebels were known to be fighting the government forces, it was
strafed or shelled by a military jet which has since been caught flying in quite close proximity to it.





The entire region has been very closely monitored by the US, NATO, and Russia by satellite
and radar throughout the entire conflict. Therefore, it is implausible that there was a missile
fired at MH17. Clearly, the satellite imagery/data and radar signatures would corroborate such
a missile attack. The US, NATO and Ukraine have all failed thus far to produce this authentic
evidence because it does not exist.

Immediately after the shoot down, the US, UK and Ukraine then went into overdrive introducing
false and fabricated evidence at every turn. Everything from fake satellite images to fraudulent
radar reports, from forged social network posts to fallacious stories about Russia’s involvement,
from false accusations lodged by US ‘statesmen’ to fictitious conspiracies attributed to the rebels,
were seeded throughout the internet to build a case against innocent parties.

What has distinguished this classic CIA-coordinated false flag operation from their other recent
international crimes against humanity is the barrage of fake evidence generated so hastily in the
wake of the mass murder of civilians. Because this was not technically a war crime, it carried the
additional weight of being falsely attributed to Russia and rebels, so odious was the premeditation
and calculated effects on the world community.

First And Foremost This False Flag Was Perpetrated By The US To Smear Russia

Through the following series of headlines, there is a patently false narrative which emerges with
greater relief with each subsequent story. With each exposé, the revelations demonstrate that
there was a plot woven in Washington, London and Kiev to implicate Russia in a nonexistent missile
attack. Which is exactly why the US and NATO has refused to release any real evidence. Their
scheme from the start was to let loose an avalanche of fabricated evidence pointing to Russia so
that the real facts on the ground would be quickly lost, or misinterpreted, or ignored … and then
not even considered in the frenzy to attribute blame.

For the uninitiated this is precisely how false flags always evolve. No hard or factual evidence is
ever presented which can be objectively evaluated. A literal barrage of false evidence is disseminated,
using every organ of the global mainstream media (MSM), to impugn those nations or parties that
have been targeted.

The execution of this Shock & Awe strategy is always initiated in the English-speaking capitals of the
world, which is why they have a pact not to spy on each other. In this particular case all of the major
newspapers of record throughout the US and UK have orchestrated a propaganda assault on Russia.
Each of the MSM news platforms in New York City and Washington, London and Sydney have been
operating in collusive journalistic overdrive to accuse Russia of crimes and conspiracy of which they
themselves are in fact guilty of.

After a few weeks of this staggering Shock & Awe media stratagem, the world has been so overwhelmed
with the false narrative it is vulnerable to being led down the same road to a “trial by media”. Since
those who control the MSM ensure that the true facts are never revealed, the only conclusion that the
community of nations can ‘officially’ come to is what has been fancifully been printed by the press. Of
course, all of the fabricated print fiction is then translated into even more ‘damning’ video coverage
further incriminating innocent Russia.

As for the real inside story as to both motivation and implementation, the two stories below speak volumes:

FIRST: George W. Bush, Tony Blair found guilty of war crimes … in Malaysia; THEN: Malaysia Airliner
Missile Strike(s): Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

FIRST: Nine EU countries to block economic sanctions against Russia & THEN: White House Blames Russia
For MH17 Crash, Saying There’s No Believable Alternative

Here are some other headlines each of which acts as a dot on the radar screen of truth. When these dots
of fact are properly connected there is only one possible conclusion. The US, UK and Ukraine conspired to
frame Russia for a crime against humanity in order to further marginalize Russia and demonize Vladimir
Putin. As one weeds through the morass of calculated propaganda and prevarication spewing from London
and Washington, the intention to cast Russia as a pariah state is clear. At the end of the day, it is only
through shocking state-sponsored terrorism events by the West that such a process of demonization can
be effectuated so quickly and convincingly.

putin pariah



Back to the evidence, both false and genuine, these articles paint a picture which cannot be denied.
While this false flag operation has been successful thus far at vilifying Russia, this very dynamic and
evolving story is far from over.

Downing Of Flight MH 17: False Flag Operation To Blame Russia?

Was Putin Really Being Targeted?

Was Vladimir Putin’s plane targeted?

Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?

Why are commercial airliners flying over war zones?

MH17 Was Barely Above Restricted Airspace When It Was Shot Down

Kiev Behind Malaysian Flight Shoot Down?

Malaysian Plane Crash: Lies and Sinister Political Agenda by the West

Russia Has Photos Of Ukraine Deployment Of BUK Missile System In East

Key Piece of Video “Evidence” for Russian Responsibility for Malaysian Plane Shootdown Debunked

Western leadership shot down in Ukraine

Is the U.S. Withholding Evidence that Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17? What Did US
Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?

‘Kiev will have to answer many questions’ as UN urges intl MH17 crash probe – Moscow

Malaysian Airlines MH17 Was Ordered to Fly over the East Ukraine War Zone

FLIGHT MH17 – Kiev Flash Mob’s Final False Flag?

China Blasts “One-Sided Western Rush To Judge Russia” Over MH17

Ron Paul says ‘Not so fast!’ Re: MH17 Accusations

Onslaught Of Western Powers MH17 Propaganda Reaches ‘Shock & Awe’ Proportions

Putin And Merkel Agree On International MH17 Probe, Bypass US

The West’s Reckless Rush Towards War With Russia

The following stories really get to the hard evidence that points to US-UK-Ukraine complicity
in regard to both the international crime and cover-up.

Radar Signatures And Satellite Imagery Of MH17 Shoot Down Reveals Critical Information

Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash – Moscow

US Claims of Flight MH17 Downing by Militia Remain Unfounded – Russia’s Defense Ministry

MH17 HOAX: Crash Scene Evidence Reveals No Boeing-777 Engine

MH17 Shrapnel and Machine Gun-Like Holes Indicate Military Aircraft Shoot Down

Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It

‘Wrong time, altered images’: Moscow slams Kiev’s MH17 satellite data

Photos of MH17 Cockpit Prove No Missile, But Shelling Brought Down Airliner

Was MH17 brought down by a hidden bomb on the plane?

Russia Accuses US Of Fabricating MH17 Evidence As US Reveals More “Evidence”
Of Russian Military Involvement




Each Article Contains Critical Info That Fits Into The US-UK-Ukraine Conspiracy Plot

Such a conspiracy could only have been cooked up in the bowels of CIA headquarters at
Langley. After all, John Brennan — CIA Director — has admitted to making a secret visit
to Kiev just before the military hostilities broke out between Eastern and Western Ukraine.

White House Admits CIA Director Brennan Was “Secretly” In Kiev

Conclusion:

The real evidence is now stacking up which proves Western (as in Western powers and
Western Ukraine) culpability for the shooting down of Malaysian Flight MH17. There is
no other conclusion which can be drawn from both the hard and circumstantial evidence
except that the Ukraine military committed this atrocity. Why they perpetrated such a
‘war crime’ can only be understood by their relationship to the Anglo-American Axis of
power and control.

This axis of global power exerts extraordinary influence over worldwide media. In so
doing they are able to saturate the MSM with any narrative they choose. In the case
of MH17, their selected target was Russia … for many obvious reasons. Their MO is
quite familiar in that the Anglo-American media outlets simply inundate their respective
audiences with propaganda and prevarication so that their is no space (both literally
and figuratively) on either print or video platforms for any dissenting coverage. After
these now predictable Shock & Awe initiatives have been seen through, the public
perceptions have then been sufficiently molded so that the same Western Powers can
hold their preplanned kangaroo courts … … … by the press and within the various
global media forums.

What every country in the world ought to be asking themselves is how such a heinous
crime could be committed by governments which continually present themselves as
taking the moral high ground. These very same Western governments have been
circumstantially implicated in many other major state-sponsored terrorist events by
virtue of the fact that only they could have possibly executed such technically difficult,



prohibitively expensive and highly labor and material intensive false flag operations.

It’s about time the community of nations stood together against these rogue governments.
Each of them must be held accountable for the killing of so many innocents in the interest
of furthering their intentions to wage war for economic gain. Their multi-decade,
international crime spree must be brought to a halt before they lay waste to even larger
swaths of the planetary terrain.

Michael Thomas
August 3, 2014
StateoftheNation2012.com


Read more: http://www.storyleak.com/evidence-co...#ixzz39QigtM5D



Read more: Evidence Conclusive: Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 In False Flag Operation

http://www.storyleak.com/evidence-co...lag-operation/

[Cidersomerset]

Over 400 Ukrainian soldiers flee to Russia, ask for refuge

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=E-OsrCkXTNY

Published on 4 Aug 2014


A total of 438 soldiers, including 164 Ukrainian border guards have been allowed
to cross into Russia on Sunday night after they requested sanctuary.
RT correspondent Marina Kosareva has the details.

===================================================




4 August 2014 Last updated at 17:54

Many Ukraine soldiers cross into Russia amid shellingUkrainian troops patrol 30km
(20 miles) from Donetsk, 31 July 2014




Ukrainian government forces are pushing closer towards rebel-held Donetsk


More than 300 Ukrainian troops have crossed into Russia during heavy fighting with
pro-Russian separatists.

A Ukrainian security spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, said the 311 soldiers and border
guards "had to cross into Russian territory" at the Gukovo checkpoint in eastern
Ukraine.

Ukraine is trying to get them back now through diplomatic channels, he said.

Earlier a Russian security official said 438 Ukrainian troops had been given refuge
in Russia as "defectors".

The border area is very tense amid Ukrainian allegations that Russian forces have
been helping the separatists with rocket barrages.

Russia has announced that it will hold an air force exercise this week near the
border. A Russian defence ministry spokesman said 100 aircraft would take part in
the operation.

The Russian foreign ministry meanwhile accused Ukrainian forces of deploying
tactical missiles and launchers near the city of Donetsk.



BBC map
In his statement on the Ukrainian troops at the border Mr Lysenko, spokesman for
Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council (SNBO), dismissed Russia's claim that the troops had defected.

He also denied reports that the separatists had captured some Ukrainian National
Guard servicemen during the fighting.

Another Ukrainian military spokesman said the group of soldiers had retreated into
Russia after running out of ammunition and other supplies during the fighting. He
said they belonged to the 72nd motorised brigade.

Recently Kiev has been gaining ground against the rebels and claims to have
retaken more than 60 towns in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Preparing for siege

Civilians are preparing for a siege as government forces close in on the rebel-held
cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Residents are stockpiling food and supplies and are sleeping in basements, with
reports suggesting Luhansk is virtually surrounded and without power.




Rebels at crash site, 4 Aug 14 Pro-Russian rebels are patrolling the huge MH17 crash site


Meanwhile, more than 100 experts from the Netherlands and Australia have
continued searching the crash site of Flight MH17, in a rebel-held area close to the
fighting.

More human remains and belongings from the Malaysia Airlines jet shot down last
month were flown to the Netherlands on Monday.

Remains of more than 200 victims have been transferred to the Netherlands for
identification. Up to 80 bodies are believed to be still at the site.

Read more...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28637569

[Hervé]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

...

No bullet holes...

Front landing gear bay door:


https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts

SUV accidentally shot by 20mm training rounds from an F-16...
From: http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic....10304&start=30


Bullet comparison of the .223 Rem (left), .338 lapua, 50BMG and 20mm Vulcan



imagine 30mmm...

So, any evidence of 30mm holes at the MH17-9M-MRD crash site?

None that I have seen yet but, especially, none of the ones which have been palmed off as being so!

[Hervé]

Now, for comparison's sake, some SAM shrapnel peppered at an A-10 "Warthog" after being hit over Baghdad and which was landed safely by this here Ace Pilot :

So...

... was it a duck, was it a plane or was it a Buk?

Here are some account from eye witnesses:

I'd love to hear the entire interview with the local in the yellow shirt.@ 1:32 the audio cuts in with this guy speaking and it sounds like he is implying that he saw a second plane: "the plane, which was encroaching... it appears was going nearby it [MH17] then approached him around and from the front [shows a hook gesture with his right hand going in front and around his left hand @ 1:36]"

Russian language just like French or German has three genders for objects. The guy was definitely not talking about a missile because rocket in Russian is of a feminine gender. He was talking about another plane "him" - masculine gender. So this was likely one of the witnesses from whom the story about an attack plane started.

He goes on to mention that seconds after both MH17 and "second plane" entered significant clouds (that obscured all the view for the guy) there was an explosion and pieces started falling.

Once I reviewed the video again I noticed another fragment when it appears that he talks about this second plane.

0:28 - here he states that no one actually saw the big plane (MH17). Second voice behind the camera also states "the big one [MH17] was not visible"

0:38 - "it was very far. it was just a dot. he [it = second plane, not a missile, which is a "she"] dived into the clouds"

0:41 - repeats hand gesture, and restates "flew [he, not she] into the clouds"

1:07 they are not near the main crash site. I think they are near the business class section. they are talking about bodies that were falling out of the falling debris. 37 bodies in total just in that area surrounding where they stand.

In no part of the video it is absolutely perfectly clear that the guy in a yellow shirt and his friend talk about two distinct airplanes. This is because neither of them make comments such as "first plane", "second plane", "another plane", "interceptor", "attacker" or anything like that. Nonetheless, it does sound a lot like they are talking about two planes. If the full video was available then it would have been much clearer.

While I hear that the witness is stating that he saw what he believes was a second plane, I personally continue to support the theory that it was a missile from the BUK, and that at an altitude of almost 10KM a trail of a large missile did resemble a trail of an interceptor jet.
Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
LarryLat,Jul 23, 2014
#73

A blog (http://avva.livejournal.com/2788606.html) makes a reference to audio recordings that were provided to the blogger by someone. The audio is an intercept of Zello App (wi-fi walki-talkie) conversations from the area of the incident. Of a particular interest is a statement made by a woman @ 2:25 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqSZu-HYWOA#t=161

"... guys, I just listened to a story [not sure if she's referring to someone else or this overall conversation happening]... (sigh) ... I was in the vegetable garden, it's actually [located] in October [reference to Red October farm - хутор Красный Октябрь - Червоный Жовтень] ... heard a roaring sound, came from nowhere this roar. Literally it was all quiet, and right away this loud roar. I look up ... something was flying ... well, I can't say for [sure] but it was like flying from direction where Saurivka is... I thought it was a missile.. then I called my mom, we went down to the cellar, and afterwards heard some explosions. when it was flying it already had a white smoke and had a loud roaring sound and was flying over Red October farm towards the town, in that direction".

Once she's done talking, a second later, a male voice states "The mine #8 confirms".

Then another male voice: "I was also standing on my balcony [in some apartment building] and saw [can't make it what he says] go into the clouds and then I heard explosion"
LarryLat, Jul 23, 2014 #83

What's for sure is that there was a flying piece of machinery that was leaving a trail and entered the clouds right before (an) explosion(s) took place in said clouds.

And that's about it!

[sigma6]

US war plan for Europe and Russia
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/0...pe-and-russia/

"In the early 1980s, a European top NATO admiral said that American colleagues at the Pentagon had told him, unequivocally, that the US and UK would not hesitate in creating a new European war if the situation ever arose that Europe and Russia, then the USSR, were to develop close relations."

The key issues are the prevention of Russia and Europe developing closer trade and political ties - stemming primarily from a vast trade in energy fuels; and, secondly, the survival of the American dollar as the world's reserve currency.

So vital are these issues for continued American hegemony that Washington is prepared to sacrifice millions of lives in a war between Russia and its so-called transatlantic European "ally".

This shocking revelation comes from a former European NATO commander. According to Christof Lehmann, editor of the news and analysis website nsnbc international, the European military officer was given the grim warning by American counterparts in an off-the-record briefing.

The European commander, now retired, subsequently confided the information with Lehmann, who says that the tensions over Ukraine between Russia and Western powers are consistent with this latent American threat.

The original threat was disclosed during the 1980s, but there is no reason to believe that the American policy of inciting a war in Europe has since changed. This is because the strategic rationale for the US bellicose logic remains the same. And recent events over Ukraine strongly suggest that Washington's destructive designs are still in place.

Says Lehmann: "In the early 1980s, a European top NATO admiral said that American colleagues at the Pentagon had told him, unequivocally, that the US and UK would not hesitate in creating a new European war if the situation ever arose that Europe and Russia, then the USSR, were to develop close relations."

Central to the American rationale was, and continues to be, the issue of energy fuel. Washington does not want to see European and Russian economies integrating on the vital issue of trade in oil and gas, the foundation for economic and social development.

Over the past two decades since the end of the Cold War between the US-led West and the former Soviet Union, Europe and Russia have seen substantial alignment of their economies, primarily due to the enormous oil and gas volumes supplied by Moscow. European-Russian bilateral trade is well over $1 trillion annually, and is some tenfold that of US-Russian trade.

Russia accounts for nearly one-third of Europe's total hydrocarbon fuel consumption. In Germany, the largest European economy, that figure rises to 40 per cent. With the new pipelines of the North Stream and the currently constructed South Stream, the role of Russia as the main energy supplier to Europe is set to grow even more over the coming decades.

[sigma6]

I earlier mentioned one of the most tell tales signs was a Youtube video showing the fake passports, and the constantly flashing double headed eagle was just too obvious... Personally I don't think either planes have been blown up, they are too valuable they will probably be reconditioned and pimped out to Elites for private use.

A trophy, for money well invested in military technology.


Malaysian Air Probes Are Led By Perpetrators Of The Lockerbie Cover-up
http://rense.com/general96/malayperp.html

Adding scandal to a double tragedy, the official investigations into both the midair destruction of MH17 and the MH-370 disappearance are being led by the same team that perpetrated the cover-up of the PanAm 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland. Cloaked in secrecy, the Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) is an agency of the UK Transport Ministry, which was created by Royal Army and reputedly connected with the MI-6 spy service, the Crown and the House of Rothschild.

The Rothschilds have a financial relationship with the KLM group, the dominant carrier at Amsterdam-Schiphol Airportl. Schiphol was the point of departure for MH17 on the fateful day of July 17. Whatever blew apart that Boeing-777, causing a “explosive” decompression massive enough to split the plane into three sections, had passed through or around bomb detectors and loaded into the cargo hold on that morning. Security at Schiphol is run by ICTS, an Israeli-owned company founded by members of the Shin Beit spy agency.

[Cidersomerset]

Even More Certain Now: Obama’s Ukrainian Stooges Did Intentionally Down that Malaysian Airliner

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:39 By david-icke





‘Information continues to pour in confirming the retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of how that Malaysian airliner (MH-17) came to be downed over the war-zone in Ukraine, the place to which Obama’s Ukrainian stooges had guided it and then shot it down in order to blame Russia for the tragedy so that Obama’s international sanctions against Russia could be increased.’
The present article is an updated version of the prior ones I’ve done attempting to present this case as clearly and as fully and honestly as I can. The “PS: at the end here is the main addition to the version I posted yesterday



We’ll go considerably farther than has yet been revealed by the professional intelligence community, to provide the actual evidence that conclusively shows that (and how) the Ukrainian Government shot down the Malaysian airliner, MH-17, on July 17th.

The latest report from the intelligence community was headlined on August 3rd by Robert Parry, “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts,” and he revealed there that, “Contrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings. This judgment — at odds with what President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have expressed publicly — is based largely on the absence of U.S. government evidence that Russia supplied the rebels with a Buk anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.”

It’s actually based on lots more than that; it’s based not on an absence of evidence, but on positive proof that the Ukrainian Government shot the plane down, and even proving how it was done. You will see this proof, right here, laid out in detail, for the first time anywhere, as of the present date.

The reader-comments to my July 31st article, “First Examination of Malaysian MH-17 Cockpit Photo Shows Ukraine Government Shot that Plane Down,” provided links and leads to independent additional confirmatory evidence backing up that account, of retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of this event, to such an extent that, after exploring the matter further, I now feel confident enough to say that the evidence on this matter is, indeed, “conclusive,” that Haisenko is right. Here is all of that evidence, which collectively convinces me that Haisenko’s conclusion there, is, indeed, the only one that can even possibly explain this wreckage:

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine-gun fire, very very strong machine-gun fire.” This remarkable statement comes not from Haisenko, but from one of the first OSCE investigators who arrived at the scene of the disaster. Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4 and you will see it.

That youtube snippet in an interview with Michael Bociurkiw, comes from a man who is “a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), [who] has seen up close … the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. Bociurkiw and one other colleague were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after the jet was shot down over a rebel-held region of eastern Ukraine July 17.” That description of him is from the lead-in to the full interview with him, at the 29 July 2014 CBC news article, “Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site.” The far briefer youtube clip shows only what’s presented on 6:10-6:24 of this CBC interview with Bociurkiw. The CBC reporter in the video precedes the interview by announcing, “The wreckage was still smoldering when a small team from the OSCE got there.” So: he had to have been there really fast. “No other officials arrived for days,” she said.

So: one of the two first international monitors on-site saw conclusive evidence that the Malaysian plane had been hit by “very very strong machine-gun fire,” not by ground-based missile-fire. Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of the downing of that airliner, was here being essentially confirmed on-site by one of the two first OSCE international monitors to arrive on-site, while the wreckage was still smoldering. That’s as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian Government, or by the British Government, or by the Ukrainian Government, each of which governments has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent, and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence. That’s powerfully authoritative testimony, and it happens to confirm pilot Peter Haisenko’s theory of what happened. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organizing to come later: Bociurkiw speaks the local languages there — Ukrainian and Russian.

Furthermore, this is hardly testimony from someone who is supportive of the anti-Government rebels. Earlier, there had been this, http://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3492, which transcribes the BBC’s interview with Bociurkiw on July 22nd. He said then: “We’re observing that major pieces, and I’m looking at the tail fin as I said, and then there’s also the rear cone section of the aircraft, they do look different than when we first saw them, … two days ago.” So, he had arrived on-scene July 20th at the latest. (Neither the BBC nor the CBC, both of which interviewed him, were sufficiently professional to have reported the specific date at which Bociurkiw had actually arrived on-scene, but, from this, it couldn’t have been after July 20th. The downing had occurred July 17th. If some of the debris was still “smoldering” as the CBC journalist said, then maybe he had arrived there even earlier.)

The youtube snippet of Bociurkiw came to me via a reader-comment to my article, from Bill Johnson, after which I web-searched the youtube clip for its source and arrived then at the 29 July 2014 CBC news article and its accompanying video.

Further, there’s this crucial 21 July photo-reconstruction of that cockpit-fragment positioned into place on the aircraft as it had originally been in that intact-airliner: https://twitter.com/EzraBraam. (Sometimes that doesn’t work, so here’s another screen of it from someone who copied it.) Looking at that photo-reconstruction, one can easily tell that the SU-25 or other fighter-jet that was firing into the cockpit from the pilot’s left side didn’t just riddle the area surrounding the pilot with bullets, but that it then targeted-in specifically onto the pilot himself, producing at his location a huge gaping hole in the side of the plane precisely at the place where the pilot was seated. Furthermore, this gaping hole was produced by shooting into the plane, precisely at the pilot, from below and to the pilot’s left, which is where that fighter-jet was located — not from above the airliner, and not from beside it, and also not from below it.

In other words: this was precise and closely-targeted firing against the pilot himself, not a blast directed broadly against, and aiming to hit, the plane anywhere, to bring it down.

Haisenko explained how this penetration of the plane, though it was targeted specifically at the pilot, caused immediately a breaking-apart of the entire aircraft.

Other readers have responded to my news-report about Haisenko’s article, by saying that shrapnel from a Buk missile could similarly have caused those holes into the side of the cockpit. However, that objection ignores another key feature of Haisenko’s analysis. Haisenko said there: “You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that … these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly!”

What this means is that in order to have some of those holes frayed inwardly and the other holes frayed outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter-jet firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s right-hand side. That’s critically important, because no ground-based missile (or shrapnel therefrom) hitting the airliner could possibly have produced firing into the cockpit from both sides of the plane. It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides, that brought the plane down, in that circumstance. This is Haisenko’s main discovery, by his pointing that out. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions. Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile.

Peter Haisenko posted an extremely high-resolution image from that photo which he used, and it shows unequivocally that some of the bullet-holes were inbound while others of them were outbound: Here it is, viewed very close-up.

Although the fighter jets that were said to have been escorting the Malaysian plane into the war-zone were alleged to be SU-25 planes, a different type might have been used. SU-25s are designed to be flown up to 23,000 feet without an oxygen-mask, but can go much higher if the pilot does wear that mask, which was probably the case here. Of course, an airliner itself is fully pressurized. That pressurization inside the airliner is, moreover, a key part of Haisenko’s reconstruction of this airliner’s downing. Basically, Haisenko reconstructs the airliner’s breaking apart as soon as that hail of bullets opened and released the plane’s pressurization.

The specific photo of that cockpit-fragment, which Haisenko had downloaded immediately after the disaster, was removed from the Internet, but other photos of this fragment were posted elsewhere, such as at the British publication (which, like the rest of the Western “news” media is slanted pro-Obama, anti-Putin), on July 21st, headlining their anti-Putin missile-theory bias, “MH17 crash: FT photo shows signs of damage from missile strike.” Their “reporters” opened with their blatant anti-Russian prejudice: “The first apparent hard evidence that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile is emerging from the crash site in eastern Ukraine, after experts confirmed on Monday there were signs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft.” Although they didn’t say in their opener that the “surface-to-air missile” was from the rebels, they made clear their pro-Ukrainian-Government anti-Russian bias by saying, “Over the weekend, western intelligence agencies pointed to mounting evidence that backs Ukraine’s claim that the aircraft with 298 people on board was shot down by mistake by pro-Russian separatists and Russian military personnel with an SA-11 missile launched from a Buk-M1 SAM battery.” Their stenographers (or as they would say “reporters”) stenographed (“reported”) that, “Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the photographic evidence ‘was consistent with the kind of damage you would expect to see from the detonation of a high explosive fragmentation warhead of the type commonly used in a SAM system’.” No analyst from the pro-Putin camp was interviewed by their “reporters.” For example, Russia’s Interfax News Service headlined on July 29th, the same day as the FT’s article, “Boeing’s downing by Buk missile system unlikely — military expert,” and they stenographed their “expert,” as follows:

Chief of the Russian Land Forces’ tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush said he doubts that the Malaysian passenger liner was brought down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. “No one observed a Buk engaging targets in that region on that day, which provides 95 percent proof that Buk systems were not used in this concrete case,” the general said in an interview with the Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer military weekly to be published on Wednesday [July 30th]. “This is no more than a theory for now. However, a guided missile launched by a Buk missile system leaves behind a specific smoke trail as it flies, like a comet. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed. There are no eyewitnesses to confirm there was any. No one reported a launch. This is one thing,” he said. “Second. The holes left by the strike elements on the Boeing’s outer skin indicate that the warhead blew up from below and sideways. A Buk missile strikes the target from above,” he said. “The damage done to the plane suggests that a different missile was used. Our guidance method is a zoom, when the missile strikes the target from above covering it with a thick cloud of fragments” the general said. “I cannot state categorically, guided by this data, but I can suggest, using my experience, that it was not a Buk missile that hit the Boeing,” the expert said.

General Krush’s statement can fit with Haisenko’s and with Bociurkiw’s, but not with FT’s or the rest of the “reporters” (just consider them as rank propagandists) in the West.

U.S. President Barack Obama has been saying all along that Russia – against which he is actually systematically building toward war – and not Ukraine (which he’s using as his chief vehicle to do that), is to blame for this airliner-downing. Previously, he had said that the snipers who in February had killed many people at the Maidan demonstrations against the pro-Russian Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych came from Yanukovych’s State Security Service and not from the far-right political parties that were trying to bring Yanukovych down and that Obama’s agent Victoria Nuland selected to run the new Ukrainian government. But that too was an Obama lie. He lies a lot, and it’s just about the only type of statement he ever makes about Russia, and about Ukraine: lies.

If someone wants to verify how rabidly the U.S. Government lies, and has lied since at least the time of George W. Bush’s Presidency, just look at this video, by starting at 16:00 on it and going to 42:00 on it, and you will be shocked. (It pertains to lies by Bush that are still being covered up by Obama.) And when you further consider the many obvious questions it points out, which U.S. “news” media refused to ask and still refuse to ask about the matter, you’ll recognize that we are being lied to systematically and with utter contempt of the public, and with no respect for the public’s right to know the truth, even regarding massive history like that. It’s really brutal.

Ignorant “reporters” sometimes slip-up and include, in their stenography, facts that actually support the opposite side’s narrative of events and that discredit their own story-line. Such has been the case, for example, in the Financial Times piece, which included the statement that, “Anti-aircraft missiles are not designed to score a direct hit as they are targeted to destroy fast, agile fighter jets. Instead, they are designed to explode within about 20m of their target, sending out a cloud of red hot metal to increase the chances of inflicting as much damage as possible.”

But rather than merely “a cloud of red hot metal,” what actually brought down this plane was what Haisenko has said brought it down: magazines-full of carefully targeted rapid-fire machine-gun bullets pouring forth from below the plane, at both its left and right.

This was a Ukrainian Government job. It was close-in. (No missile fired from the distance more than 30,000 feet down to the ground could have been that precise to target the pilot rather than the far larger target of the plane’s entire body.) It came from the Government that Obama installed there in February and that’s now carrying out an ethnic-cleansing campaign against the residents in Ukraine’s southeast, the places where Yanukovych’s voters live (to the extent that they still can and do live).

Compare that picture with the following one, which I take from a propaganda-site for the U.S. regime, and so which is intended instead to support the Administration’s line on this, certainly not Haisenko’s explanation of how the airliner was downed, though it actually supports Haisenko’s case:

3.August.2014.Screen shot 2014-08-03 at 3.25.30 PM





As you can see there, a plane that’s hit by a ground-fired missile, instead of by bullets fired from an attack-plane only a few yards away, has the damage spread rather widely over its body, not concentrated into a tiny area, such as to where the plane’s pilot is seated. Certainly, the contrast between that photo and this one is enormous.

Furthermore, note also that the shrapnel damage to that plane comes from above it, which is where missiles usually hit a plane from, releasing their shrapnel from above, down onto the plane. By contrast, the hail of bullets to the Malaysian plane’s pilot came from below the plane, aiming upward at the cockpit, from both sides of the cockpit.

Furthermore, note also that all of the holes appear to be inbound into the plane, none outbound.

As regards whether there were actually two fighter jets firing into the Malaysian airliner or only one, a proponent of the single-jet hypothesis, Bill Johnson, posted as a reader-comment to my article on August 4th, a series of extreme close-ups of the side-panel, in which he inferred that the explanation of the apparent left-side (pilot-side) bullets was probably the shape of the bullets. I then asked him why he declined to accept the possible existence of two jets. He said, “from what I could find Russian military radar detected only one Ukrainian fighter jet, not two. I have looked and looked for any type of radar confirmation of a second fighter jet and can not find it.” However, the most virginal, very earliest, online evidence concerning the matter was on July 17th, within moments of the downing, headlining in the subsequent English translation, “Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17,” and it included, “@spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED,” which included his observation, only minutes after the downing, “2 jet fighters flew very close” to the plane. Furthermore, immediately before that, he had tweeted, “The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar.” So, perhaps the second jet appeared distinct to him only immediately prior to the downing. An extensive file of tweets from @spainbuca was posted below the headline story and it included also the note: “LAST MINUTE Air Traffic Controller: The Boeing 777 ‘flew fighters escorted by two Ukrainians’ before disappearing.” (The original Spanish there was: “‘voló escoltado por 2 cazas ucranianos’ antes de desaparecer.”)

Additionally, a news story from the Spanish language edition of Russian Television on 8 May 2014, soon after the Odessa massacre, had been headlined in google trans English as “Death threats to a Spanish review in Ukraine crisis” and it said: “Spanish air traffic controller who was threatened by supporters of the Maidan, Carlos, who spoke with RT on the condition of anonymity, has received threats despite not defending any interest. ‘I have my opinion and my view of a normal person, with a separate work [unrelated] or media, or any political party, nor to any association.’” These “supporters of Maidan … threatened to kill him, to send him to ‘do not know what battalion’ and out of the country.” Then on July 17th there was, yet again in google trans from Spanish, “Block a Twitter account accusing Kiev of the demolition of the MH17,” which reported that a controller at “Ukraine’s largest airport said the plane from Malaysia, which crashed in the east with 298 people on board, was escorted by two Ukrainian fighters until minutes before disappearing from radar.”

Another news-report, also on July 17th, came from Global Travel Industry News datelined 17 July and it headlined “Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane.” It said: “This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board. The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.” If this is true, then the radar-records upon the basis of which those tweets had been sent out were “confiscated.” That news-story from Global Travel Industry News closed by saying that the report was “based on” “tweets received” and “the statements of one airline controller.”

That person, who called himself anonymously by the name “Carlos,” had produced a file characteristic of someone hostile toward, and personally afraid of, the new Kiev government, and nothing further was heard from him, if he even survived. The Ukrainian Government said that he never existed, though the 8 May 2014 news report of his frictions with the Kiev authorities could hardly have been concocted after July 17th simply out of nowhere; it had pre-existed the airliner-downing, and it fit with his tweets on July 17th.

The best evidence is consistent with the view that those bullet-holes came from two directions not from one. What is virtually certain, however, is that at least one jet fighter was close up and shot down the Malaysian plane targeting the pilot at close range. There is no way that a 33,000-foot-away ground-fired missile could have produced that cockpit side-panel.

And the European Union has been playing along with this hoax. (If you still have any further doubts that it’s a hoax, just click onto that link and look.) And the mass of suckers in the West believe that hoax: it’s succeeding to stir a fever for war, instead of a fever to get rid of our own leaders who are lying us into a war that will benefit only the West’s aristocrats, while it inflicts massive physical and economic harms against everyone else – as if it were the invasion of Iraq except multiplied in this case a thousand-fold, especially with nuclear weapons possibly at the end of it.

If we had a free press, the news media would be ceaselessly asking President Obama why he doesn’t demand accountability against the Ukrainian Government for their massacre perpetrated on May 2nd inside the Trade Unions Building in Odessa, where that newly Obama-installed regime’s peaceful opponents were systematically trapped and then burned alive, which the Obama-installed Ukrainian Government has refused to investigate (much less to prosecute). Basically: Obama had sponsored the massacre. So, our “news” media ignore it, even though it started this civil war on Russia’s doorstep, and thereby re-started the Cold War, as Obama had intended that massacre (his massacre, and his subsequent ethnic cleansing) to do. (Similarly, the “news” media, though all of them receive my articles by email, virtually all refuse to publish them, because I won’t let them control what I find and report.)

And while Obama leads this Republican policy, and Vice President Dick Cheney’s top foreign-policy advisor Victoria Nuland actually runs it for Obama, congressional Democrats are just silent about it, and do not introduce impeachment of this fake “Democratic” hyper-George W. Bush neo-conservative President, who’s a “Democrat” in rhetoric only – and though Obama’s policy in this key matter threatens the entire world.

A reader-comment to an earlier version of this news report and analysis objected to my identifying Obama as a Republican-in-”Democratic”-sheep’s clothing, and said: “They may be rethug policies in origin but they are decidedly BI-PARTISAN to anyone who wants to admit FACTS. The democratic party you all think still exists is DEAD and only exists in your brain (the part that doesn’t accept reality).” However, U.S. Senate bill 2277, which invites Obama to provide direct U.S. military support to the Obama-installed Ukrainian regime, has 26 sponsors, and all of them are Republican U.S. Senators. Democratic Senators, by contrast, are just silent on Obama’s turn toward nazism (or racist — in this case anti-ethnic-Russian racist — fascism); the Senate’s Democrats aren’t seeking for it to be stepped up. This is a Republican policy, which congressional Democrats are simply afraid to oppose. Any realistic person knows that however far right Obama turns, the overt Republican Party will turn even farther to the right, because they have to be to his right in order for them to be able to win Republican primaries and retain their own Party’s nomination. Just because Obama’s game of moving the American political center as far to the right as he can move it is succeeding, doesn’t mean that the Democratic Party itself should end. It instead means that progressives need to take the Democratic Party over, just like conservatives took the Republican Party over with Reagan. There is no other hope. If a Democrat in the U.S. House will simply introduce an impeachment resolution against Barack Obama, then the right-wing takeover of the Democratic Party might finally end, and the world might yet be saved, because the Democratic Party itself could then reject Obama as being a fake “Democrat,” a Democrat-in-rhetoric-only. It could transform American politics — and American politics needs such a transformation, which would move the Democratic Party back to progressivism, more like the FDR Democratic Party was, so that Republican politicians would no longer need to be so fascist as they now have become (and as they now need to be in order to be able to win their own Party’s nomination). If Democrats fail to renounce the conservatism of Obama and of the Clintons, then the Party will end, and needs to be replaced, just like the Republican Party replaced the Whig Party immediately before the Civil War. Nazism has become today’s slavery-type issue – it’s beyond the pale, and Obama’s installation and endorsement of it in Ukraine is like James Buchanan’s endorsement of slavery was during the 1850s: either the Democratic Party will become the progressive party, or else the Democratic Party is over.

But that’s just my own theory of how Obama’s frauds might yet be able to be overcome and defeated, if they still can be; it’s not part of my presentation of the explanation of what brought down the Malaysian airliner, which has been an open case since July 17th, and which is now a closed case. This is past history, not future.

The present news story is being circulated free of charge or copyright to all “news” media in the English-speaking world, in the perhaps vain hope that the cover-ups of our leaders’ constant lies will cease soon enough to avoid a World War III, even though communism is long since gone from Russia and so the ideological excuse wouldn’t make any sense here. This insanity is actually all about aristocratic conquest, like World War I was. It’s not for the benefit of the public anywhere. Silence about it (by “Democrats,” and the “news” media) is a scandal, which needs to stop. The real Democratic Party (the Party of FDR, who loathed and despised nazis — and even mere fascists — yet today Obama installs nazis into power in Ukraine) must be restored, and a real news media needs to become established in America. Even Republicans need it, because the very idea of “victory” in a nuclear war is a vicious fantasy. It is a dangerous lie, though there are some people who find it a very profitable one. And time might be short — let’s hope not already too short.

After all, Obama’s hoax of having won from Europe the stepped-up economic sanctions against Russia after the government that Obama had installed in Ukraine downed the Malaysian plane and successfully blamed it on “Russian aggression,” is very encouraging to him. And European leaders know that Obama’s entire operation is a very bloody fraud (read the phone-transcript there — it’s a stunner). So, they certainly won’t save the world from it. It’s up to us.

—

PS (dated August 5th):

Some readers disagree with Peter Haisenko’s reconstruction of the event on account of their not understanding his reconstruction of it (not understanding what I have been trying here to state as clearly as I can, bringing in other evidence). For example, see:

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/...shot-involved/

reader-comment:

“Benoit • [c. 8AM on 5 August 2014]

“I do not agree with Peter Haisenko’s conclusions : if external hull of the cockpit is bent outwards, it is not necessarily because some of the bullets came outwards. It may also be because it’s a double hull, and explosive bullet coming inwards may, when exploding, have torn outer aluminium hull outwards. A very careful analysis shows tha the inner hull (the green one) is bent inwards, and that may well in fact confirm the present analysis. Here’s this careful analysis (in french, use Goolgle translate):

—

“Benoit” links there to:

http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/in...nage-et-155019

“MH17: evidence gunnery and Western Bankruptcy”

by joelim , Wednesday, July 30, 2014, in which is buried its conclusion:

“Anyway, these five aligned and clearly visible impacts directly lead to the conclusion that fire gunnery (not gun, which stops 20 mm) was made precisely to where stood the driver (see here and here ). The damage (physical, human, decompression) left them no chance. This is the cause of the crash. The plane did not explode which also explains the appearance of debris found.”

—

Here is the French original on that:

“MH17 : preuve de canonnage et faillite occidentale”

“Quoiqu’il en soit, ces 5 impacts alignés et parfaitement visibles mènent directement à la conclusion qu’un tir de canonnage (et non de mitrailleuse, qui s’arrête à 20 mm) a été effectué précisément à l’endroit où se tenait le pilote (voir ici et ici). Les dégâts occasionnés (matériel, humain, décompression) ne leur laissaient aucune chance. C’est donc la cause du crash. L’avion n’a pas explosé ce qui explique aussi l’aspect des débris retrouvés.”

—

In other words: “Benoit” couldn’t understand what he was reading, and so he said “I do not agree with Peter Haisenko’s conclusions.” He cited against Haisenko’s theory of the case, an analysis that was published a day after Haisenko’s, which concluded the same as Haisenko did.

The author of that French article refused to even use the word “Haisenko” in his article, much less to credit Haisenko’s article in any way, but the source-photo that he linked to came from Haisenko’s high-definition pdf of the photo that Haisenko was using. He was trying to get credit for Haisenko’s theory of the case.

—

There is a lot of lying going on, a lot of misrepresentation. The only way to get to the truth is to base it on the best available evidence, which is what Haisenko did. He found it; he analyzed it; he solved the mystery (though he could have explained it better). To the extent that other “evidence” is reliable, it fits his explanation — an explanation that I shall keep expanding on to the extent that new relevant evidence comes forth, pro and/or con, on it. The important thing to keep in mind, however, is this. It’s even more important than how that plane was brought down.

Barack Obama lies to us. All Republican (or conservative) politicians do. The Democratic Party will die if it fails to state that this is so and to make the case for the charge so that they separate themselves from the Republican Party and be clearly the progressive alternative to conservatism in America. A Democratic impeachment against this Republican President is essential in order to salvage the Democratic Party, and even in order to salvage democracy in America, because no country can be an authentic democracy if the country’s main political parties are all conservative, if none of the main parties is progressive. That’s not a democracy: it is a dictatorship. That’s what we’ve got.

———-



Read more: Even More Certain Now: Obama’s Ukrainian Stooges Did Intentionally Down that Malaysian Airliner

http://rinf.com/alt-news/featured/5-...sian-airliner/

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

[Cidersomerset]

Humanitarian Crisis: No water, power or communications in Lugansk, E. Ukraine

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:31 By david-icke



‘The eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk has declared a state of humanitarian
catastrophe over a lack of medical supplies, electricity, lighting, mobile and
internet communication. Some 250,000 civilians are unable to leave, the
statement also says. ‘

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0P8exx-ekbw

===============================================


100,000 people internally displaced in Ukraine: UN

new Wednesday 6th August 2014 at 06:28 By david-icke





‘The United Nations’ refugee agency says over 100,000 people have
been internally displaced in Ukraine and another 170,000 people have
fled to Russia.

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
(UNHCR) warned on Tuesday of a massive exodus over the crisis in
eastern Ukraine, saying the number of people internally displaced
has risen from 2,600 to about 103,000 over the past two months.

The international body added that about 1,200 people are fleeing
violence in the country every day.’

Read more: 100,000 people internally displaced in Ukraine: UN


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08...in-ukraine-un/

====================================================


Up in the Air: Russia mulls ban on EU Trans-Siberian flights after sanctions

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=K5jC8AOZTr8

Published on 5 Aug 2014


Russia is considering limiting or even completely blocking European flights to Asia
that cross Siberia in response to EU sanctions that caused Aeroflot subsidiary
Dobrolet to suspend flights on Monday. READ MORE http://on.rt.com/vc7fkh

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sigma6]

More parties coming to the same conclusion... This must been a botched up job given the amount of media cover up...

CIS - The plane MH-17 was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above.
http://ronaldwederfoort.blogspot.ca/...t-down-by.html



The plane was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above. The armor piercing bullets entered the cockpit through the heavy titanium frame above the right side cockpit window and exited it below the left side window. The irregular shrapnel is likely the result of a 1/2 or 1/3 mixture of HE rounds in the ammo.

The screenshot shows the bullet holes in the upper frame of the right side cockpit windows.

[Sunny-side-up]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
More parties coming to the same conclusion... This must been a botched up job given the amount of media cover up...

CIS - The plane MH-17 was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above.
http://ronaldwederfoort.blogspot.ca/...t-down-by.html



The plane was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and above. The armor piercing bullets entered the cockpit through the heavy titanium frame above the right side cockpit window and exited it below the left side window. The irregular shrapnel is likely the result of a 1/2 or 1/3 mixture of HE rounds in the ammo.

The screenshot shows the bullet holes in the upper frame of the right side cockpit windows.

Is it just me or dose that metal look old, rusty and corroded?

[Hervé]

Short summary:

SAM (Surface-Air Missile) shrapnel, clustered and aligned:




vs.

20mm holes training rounds (not even HE [high Explosive]):




compared to:

9M-MRD's Cockpit port-side roof:

Hence, it seems that some people have their gauges/calibers mixed up or else they ain't looking...


PS: @ Cidersomerset, it seems, IMO, that many of your posts would rather better fit in threads like this one: Ukraine, Crimea, Syria, Israel, Iran, Putin, and World War III

[ExomatrixTV]

Game Changer! Let The Radar Truth About MH17 Not Be Suppressed!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WGrpMAm6I7k

[Hervé]

For further comparison, here is what a real Buk missile warhead looks like:

... and the shrapnel layers of cubes, diabolos and rods:




... which is one of those:




... inside one of those:



... so, my guess is that one of those would make for different hole sizes...

... and so, the damn Buk hasn't been quite stopped yet and is still in the run with an AAM and a bomb!