High profile people born with the opposite sex

[Akeron]

I understand that this is a touchy subject, so I am as careful as I can be. I believe that everyone should be free to follow their orientation among adults, with consent, and decide what happens with their body and appearance. If someone feels like the opposite sex and wants his body changed that's absolutely okay.

What I came across now though is a theory that there is an overall agenda behind prepping certain people up to become very famous, that were originally conceived with the opposite sex, in an attempt to steer the overall population into a more androgynous direction... blurring the lines between men and women.

At this stage I am less interested in the possible agenda behind it, the "right and wrong" individual perceptions of people or whether it's even plausible to pursue this investigation.

What I am interested in is finding out the definitive differences between male and female bodies which are very hard to hide through training or surgery and visible in appropriate video material.

Angle of the forehead, brow ridge, headsize, relationship between width of the face and shoulders, shape of the torso, hip and waist relation, positioning of knees, sizes of hands and feet are some of the examples I came across that would allow to make more or less definitive assumptions about the body's original sex.

None of it seems really definitive though, as there are always exceptions possible. Especially women that are very thin might lack the signs that would provide a higher certainty in an assessment.

I would like to give two examples of women that have publicly stated that they are men (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-qXTUQw7Bw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3cqdh2hErE -- first couple seconds of the videos suffice) which nobody would believe. The question is now: How do you find out?

There is also the question for the other way around, as shown in this example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOevhrb01V8), where two professionals that worked for the police analyze the body structure and come to a definitive conclusion.

[to Moderators: In case any part seems inappropriate -- please remove]

[sunwings]

My Youtube sidebar in the last two weeks just started filling up with these types of videos. I have never searched female hollywood stars are actually males but all of a sudden, BANG!!! Video after video. Most of the comments support the video. It reminds me 100% of how the flat earth theory started out. Videos appearing and comments supporting the video content. Quite possibly could be another Psyop!

[Akeron]

Yes, it could be another psyop. The confusion works both ways... turning the actual people into the opposite sex or simply our perception of what's male and female.

[Bruno]

First I need to say that I identify as a lesbian and a woman who many would say has masculine characteristics.(feel free to look at my profile pic of my wife and I) Just so you can know some of my possible bias up front.

I have done a lot of work in the LGBT community locally. As a teacher I started one of the first high school GSA's in my province. I of course believe strongly that everyone has the right to live and dress as they choose and I support many trans kids within my school but......

I do find it strange that there has been an explosion of trans identified people and so much confusing media focus on the matter, both positive and negative. I personally worry that people who would have been gay or lesbian in the past and would simply have been "queer" in terms of gender nonconformity now feel that they are trans and need to have surgery or hormones to be who they are.

In a way perhaps I worry about the opposite point of view Akeron, as I worry that we are moving away from an acceptance of gender variance to a need to be more decisively in one gender box or another.

[Akeron]

Posted by Bruno (here)
In a way perhaps I worry about the opposite point of view Akeron, as I worry that we are moving away from an acceptance of gender variance to a need to be more decisively in one gender box or another.

Maybe I was not careful enough in expressing the situation. I am not worried about gender variance... and don't see any reason to have people decide on boxes.

People are born with one sex, being able to tell which one that is was the only intention behind my post. Everything else just served as a sort of framework explanation to prevent too many judgements on the matter.

[Bruno]

Posted by Akeron (here)

Posted by Bruno (here)
In a way perhaps I worry about the opposite point of view Akeron, as I worry that we are moving away from an acceptance of gender variance to a need to be more decisively in one gender box or another.

Maybe I was not careful enough in expressing the situation. I am not worried about gender variance... and don't see any reason to have people decide on boxes.

People are born with one sex, being able to tell which one that is was the only intention behind my post. Everything else just served as a sort of framework explanation to prevent too many judgements on the matter.

I think you were quite kind and careful, perhaps too much so. I'm not offended by your observation, nor do I totally disagree, I was only adding my concerns from where I sit. I just find it hard to make sense of the explosion in the number of trans people and the interest in living as trans. I am wondering if sunwings is correct in saying it may be a pysop.

[Ewan]

Pretty sure both Jessica Alba and Megan Fox were joking; an influence to their jokes may well have come from the deeper issues you are raising, perhaps combined with age old girl-talk about how men always have it better.

[Akeron]

Posted by Bruno (here)
I think you were quite kind and careful, perhaps too much so. I'm not offended by your observation, nor do I totally disagree, I was only adding my concerns from where I sit. I just find it hard to make sense of the explosion in the number of trans people and the interest in living as trans. I am wondering if sunwings is correct in saying it may be a pysop.

Very happy to hear that, it's often hard/impossible to determine over the internet what emotional background is behind some words.

The way I came across the subject was by clicking a video with the title "My Strangest Discovery After Flat Earth" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuaYhTzUNow)
Since I had spent an awful lot of time investigating the flat earth thing a couple of months ago (totally independant of Project Avalon) and concluded that it doesn't hold up, I was wondering what else the person making the video might have fallen for. I didn't actually watch that video, only hopped through it... nevertheless it got me started on the investigation.

Now having a closer look at the sources it does appear as if a very small number of people are advocating this subject... with an unusually high number of comments agreeing with them. I conclude that it might very well be manufactured just as sunwings points out.

That aside I am still wondering about the anatomical subject. Maybe I should add my personal bias that I had been more attracted to tomboy'ish women in the past and that it has really nothing to do with femininity or masculinity. I am aware of the different phases in fetal development that depending on the hormones lead to more male of female traits, regardless of the actual genitals of the baby.

The question for me is how to check for myself -make up my own mind- if someone in a video tries to tell me "this woman was actually born as a man because of this, this and this". Psyop or not is irrelevant for this question, it's about how to get certainty through your own knowledge.

Some indicators that are brought up really don't say much... and I'm happy to use my own body as an example with the forehead. Mine goes straight up, "like that of a woman" the police investigator from that other video might say. Just as I have met a lot of women with very big, "male" hands. Doesn't mean anything.

How much does the width of the shoulders really say? Or the jawline? These are harder for me to assess, especially since so many people in the mainstream media are very thin compared to the average person you meet on the road.

The biggest argument, so far, seems to be the hip/waist area. Does that make all thin models men? Cetainly not, but where can you focus your attention to actually tell the difference?

[Mike]

Posted by Bruno (here)
First I need to say that I identify as a lesbian and a woman who many would say has masculine characteristics.(feel free to look at my profile pic of my wife and I) Just so you can know some of my possible bias up front.

I have done a lot of work in the LGBT community locally. As a teacher I started one of the first high school GSA's in my province. I of course believe strongly that everyone has the right to live and dress as they choose and I support many trans kids within my school but......

I do find it strange that there has been an explosion of trans identified people and so much confusing media focus on the matter, both positive and negative. I personally worry that people who would have been gay or lesbian in the past and would simply have been "queer" in terms of gender nonconformity now feel that they are trans and need to have surgery or hormones to be who they are.

In a way perhaps I worry about the opposite point of view Akeron, as I worry that we are moving away from an acceptance of gender variance to a need to be more decisively in one gender box or another.

Hi Bruno, i appreciate you saying these things. Ive always sort of secretly agreed with them but stayed quiet because I didnt want to tread in those waters...feeling perhaps I simply didnt understand what I was talking about and should therefore stay quiet.

My neice is a lesbian.....I think? Well, she's dated a woman for many years, a woman who identified as a man, and has since had the gender surgery to become a man. So...my neice still calls herself a lesbian.... but is with someone who is now a man. It's kind of mind boggling.

I know her happiness doesnt depend on my ability to make sense of it all, but the logical side of me desperately wants it to add up in my head..and it just doesnt. Or does it? LOL...see, I dont know!

Sorry, a little off topic here. As far as the OP, the 2 women there were clearly joking about being men. There are rumors of certain actresses, jamie lee curtis comes to mind, but nothing substantial enough to consider it a trend, in my opinion.

[Akeron]

Posted by Ewan (here)
Pretty sure both Jessica Alba and Megan Fox were joking; an influence to their jokes may well have come from the deeper issues you are raising, perhaps combined with age old girl-talk about how men always have it better.

Ewan, what makes you so sure that they were joking? No matter how I turn it, it doesn't make any sense. Not that I would want to focus on the example videos too much, they simply provide some material that raises questions.

As a result of this investigation I watched a great number of "confirmed" cases where one sex transformed into another... and I assure you that there are a lot of very, very good looking women that were born men. Same is true the other way around. In other words: A perfect looking transformation seems very possible.

[Shannon]

Bruno and sun wings bring up great points...this was an interesting post on a mom blog I caught on twitter...I don't frequent mom blogs...not that there's anything wrong with that.
http://www.thegetrealmom.com/blog/womensrestroom


I didn't know if I was going to write this blog or not. A part of me was scared it'd be shared as some transgender hot piece about yet another homophobic mom lashing out at Disney and then I'd have to deal with the wrath of the internet telling me to kill myself. So let me be clear. This isn’t that story. This is a story about a biological man in the women’s restroom, but we need to discuss some gender issues.

I’ve lived in Los Angeles for over a decade and have seen my fair share of transgender/gender fluid people. They in no way offend me. I'd consider myself pretty progressive and tolerant of most things...except maybe people who identify as a person wearing socks with sandals. We all have our line in the sand and that's totally mine. But how transgender people feel, how they choose to dress or any surgeries they get, don't infringe on any parts of my life, so I support their decision to live as they see fit. I've also seen my fair share of transgender women in the women's restroom before. Not ALL the time. But over the past few years, I'd say 4-5 that I noticed. Men...who were in some stage of transition and making every attempt to be a woman from mascara to heels. Transgenders who certainly felt comfortable in the women's room and probably frightened to go into the men's. At these times, I smiled…I peed...and life went on. But 2 weeks ago something very different happened.

I was at Disneyland with my son, my friend and her son. We were over in California Adventure in the food court area. We’d just finished eating and decided to pee before we headed out to The Little Mermaid. I went to the bathroom while she watched our boys in their strollers, and then I did the same. (For anyone who’s tried to fit a stroller in a bathroom stall, you get it).

I was off to the side waiting with the two boys, when I noticed a man walk into the restroom. My first thought was “Oh ****, he’s walked in the wrong restroom by mistake. lol” He took a few more steps, at which point he would’ve definitely noticed all the women lined up and still kept walking. My next thought was, “Maybe he’s looking for his wife…or child and they’ve been in here a while.” But he didn’t call out any names or look around. He just stood off to the side and leaned up against the wall. At this point I’m like, “WTF? Ok there is definitely a very large, burly man in a Lakers jersey who just walked in here. Am I the only one seeing this?" I surveyed the room and saw roughly 12 women, children in tow, staring at him with the exact same look on their faces. Everyone was visibly uncomfortable. We were all trading looks and motioning our eyes over to him…like "What is he doing in here?” Yet every single one of us was silent. And this is the reason I wrote this blog.

If this had been 5 years ago, you bet your ass every woman in there would’ve been like, “Ummm what are you doing in here?”, but in 2017? The mood has shifted. We had been culturally bullied into silenced. Women were mid-changing their baby’s diapers on the changing tables and I could see them shifting to block his view. But they remained silent. I stayed silent. We all did. Every woman who exited a stall and immediately zeroed right in on him...said nothing. And why? B/c I and I’m sure all the others were scared of that “what if”. What if I say something and he says he "identifies as a woman" and then I come off as the intolerant asshole at the happiest place on earth? So we all stood there, shifting in our uncomfortableness…trading looks. I saw two women leave the line with their children. Still nothing was said. An older lady said to me out loud, “What is he doing in here?” I’m ashamed to admit I silently shrugged and mouthed, “I don’t know." She immediately walked out, from a bathroom she had every right to use without fear.

So there lingered this unspoken doubt everyone had….that .00001% chance this wasn’t a man. Let me be clear. This was totally a man. If this wasn’t a man, this was a woman who had fully transitioned via surgery and hormones into a man and had also gotten an Adam’s apple implant, chest hair and size 9-10 shoes ....and at that point, wtf are you doing in the women’s restroom? And let me be clear, my problem wasn’t JUST that there was a man in the restroom. Its that he wasn’t even peeing, washing his hands or doing anything else that you’d do in a restroom. He was just standing off to the side looking smug…untouchable... doing absolutely nothing. He had to have noticed that every woman in the long line was staring at him. He didn’t care. He then did a lap around the restroom walking by all the stalls. You know, the stalls that have 1 inch gaps by all the doors hinges so you can most definitely see everyone with their pants around their ankles and vagina clear as day.

And just as a side note….can we stop making bathroom doors with built in peep holes? I don’t particularly want to see people wiping their asses or changing tampons. Why is this even a thing?

So yes... there were women and small children using the restroom and this man was walking around knowing no one would say anything. So here I am…writing this blog, because honestly I need answers. We can’t leave this situation ambiguous any more. The gender debate needs to be addressed... and quickly. There have to be guidelines. It can’t just be a feeling. I’m sorry. I wish it could, but it can’t. I’m fine going by “if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck…it’s a duck." Even if that means he/she put on a beak and glued feathers…I get it, you’re trying to be a duck so you’re cool. But this notion that we’re shamed into silence b/c we might offend someone, has gone too far. There was a man in the bathroom. Not transgender. There was a man who felt entitled to be in the woman restroom, because he knew no one would say anything. There were 20-25 people by the time I left, who were scared and uncomfortable by his ominous presence. And the only thing stopping us, was our fear of political correctness and that the media has told us we don’t know what gender is anymore. I never want to be in the position again. Im not asking for permission to tell transgender people to get out my bathroom. I need to know it’s ok to tell a man, who looks like a man, to get the f*&% out. Gender just can't be a feeling. There has to be science to it. DNA, genitals, amount of Sephora make up on your face, pick your poison, but as a very progressive woman...I'm sorry it can't just be a feeling when theres but a mere suggestion of a door with a peep hole separating your eyes from my vagina or my children's genitals.

SINCE THE SAME QUESTIONS KEEP GETTING ASKED OF ME I THOUGHT I'D CLARIFY WITH AN UPDATE:

*Why didn't you just leave? A big reason I didn't leave the restroom was because maneuvering two separate strollers anywhere isn't exactly an easy feat. In fact, it's nearly impossible. If you've ever tried, when you push them, they move in opposite directions. It's a ****show. Had I felt like my life was in imminent danger, obviously I would not have just stood there, I would've figured something out. We all would've.

*"It's your own fault for not saying anything. I would have spoken up." Sure. Don't we all wish we could always do and say the perfect thing? lol Well unfortunately in the real world, it doesn't always work out that way. And like many of you, I thought of the perfect thing to say around 11pm that night when I was running it over and over again in my mind trying to fall asleep. Funny how it always works that way, eh? I've thought long and hard about everything that happened since then and found that I would probably reacted the same way if I had to do it over. I wasn't in the position to say something, standing there manning two toddlers. I couldn't risk putting them in the middle of that situation should he have reacted poorly. But I didn't write this blog only because of how I reacted. I take full responsibility for MY actions whether you think I was right or wrong. I wrote this blog not just because of my reaction, but because of how every. single. woman. reacted. As some have suggested, I had no way of knowing what was in their minds or why no one said anything. And you're right, but they didn't. Not one. For one reason or another none of us spoke up, women of all walks of life and some without children. Not one spoke. I froze. We all froze. If you don't think that's important, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

*"He was clearly a perv, you're stupid for not kicking him out" He wasn't being overtly "pervy" or aggressive towards anyone. It wasn't apparent what he was doing anything at all besides standing there. He wasn't drunk and stumbling around acting aggressive or taunting anyone. That would've been clear. Yes he did a lap around, but he wasn't lingering over a particular stall with his hands in his pants. It felt like he was looking for someone, so my gut kept saying he was waiting for someone. Still not ok, but also not a life or death situation. He was just there. I should also note that although my story is long, this all transpired in about a minute...minute and a half.

*"This isn't a trans issue, so why did you bring them up at all?" I believe trans women issues ARE women's issues. Situations like this are the very reason trans women have fought for bathroom rights to begin with. To pee, not in the presence of men. If we continue down this path, I do worry that the backlash could strip them of their rights. Perhaps I went overboard on explaining how my problem wasn't with the new trans bathroom rules...calling attention to it as if it was. But lets be honest...I'd of been damned if I did and damned if I didn't. If I hadn't mentioned them, people would've accused me of being transphobic and disingenuous with my intent.

*Why did you even write this? What are you asking for besides clicks to your dumb mom blog?" Gender must be clearly defined to keep women safe. We can not tell women they don't know what a man is anymore. We can not coddle this small fraction of people (people who are men, "identify as women", but have made no external attempt to show that) at the risk of women and children everywhere. The wrong men will take advantage of this loophole and put others in danger. My situation wasn't dire, but for others it could be. We can not put doubt in women's minds regarding their ability to recognize and identify a man. In a world where 99.9% of sexual assault is done by men, we must to have the right to "assume someone's gender". And I will not waiver in that stance.

[Akeron]

Great blog post, it's about "that issue" and yet it's not. This mom describes a culture of fear as a result of strictly enforced political correctness. Now she's looking for security, an authority or consensus that would allow her to act differently in the future. Basically it's about fear... and authority. Do we ourselves decide what's right or wrong or look to outside sources for these answers?

Thanks for sharing it.

[Shannon]

Posted by Akeron (here)
Great blog post, it's about "that issue" and yet it's not. This mom describes a culture of fear as a result of strictly enforced political correctness. Now she's looking for security, an authority or consensus that would allow her to act differently in the future. Basically it's about fear... and authority. Do we ourselves decide what's right or wrong or look to outside sources for these answers?

Thanks for sharing it.

Exactly, a room full of "mama bears" went quiet out of fear. Fear of being called anything from homophobic to sexist to whatever the new anti or phobic label that's been created. I mean look, racism and homophobia absolutely exist just it rarely ever does in situations like hers. But the fear of being wrongly labeled as any of those things for throwing an obvious man out of a women's lavatory made these women second guess their instinct and ignore their loss of security and safety.

Is there an agenda from on high? Well, people's behaviors are being changed. I can't call it yet, and I doubt I even want to myself for the exact same reason. And that's what scares me.

[Flash]

Forget the mama bear. It took centuries for women to feel half protected when being alone in a women public bathroom. Seeing a full grown man in the bathroom I am in would make me more than uncomfortable, it would scare me. And more when with children, always accompanying their mom or young female children alone in there being with a potential pedophile around. This is definitively what I would have thought moreso at Disney.

So now, in the name of correctedness towards a tiny minority, 100 percent of women, including accomplished transgenders, will be afraid to go pee. And 95 percent of moms and dads will not want to send their daughter with their friends to the toilet.

Talk of justice and equality!!!! Again women paying the Price,.... again

Where are we going to pee for god sake!! We were already waiting in line twice as much as men for lack of appropriate commodities, now we will have zero safe access to basic commodities.

A full fledge man in a women public bathroom: i call the cops, guaranteed

[Carmody]

One cannot burn down a functional edifice that goes back genetically, for a million years, all due to a political, opportunist, and predatory moment - in modern exploited times.

I''m not interested in complicating life for 0.5% of the population or being mean to them, or making life miserable..... I'm interested in protecting the function of +99.5% over that exploited 0.5%.

And it really comes down to: Get the hell out of the women's bathroom. Or be forced out.

[Shannon]

Posted by Carmody (here)
One cannot burn down a functional edifice that goes back genetically, for a million years, all due to a political, opportunist, and predatory moment - in modern exploited times.

I''m not interested in complicating life for 0.5% of the population or being mean to them, or making life miserable..... I'm interested in protecting the function of +99.5% over that exploited 0.5%.

And it really comes down to: Get the hell out of the women's bathroom. Or be forced out.

I agree 100%...

I'm sorry if I derailed akerons thread with the blog post, I felt it was relevant to the question of this whole very new trans issue being intentional and by design.

[Flash]

This blog is very relevant. My daughter in college, in social work studies, therefore very pro so many letters sex orientations that i cannot remember it any more, told me that her college has made women bathroom for women and transgenders, already transformed or not. She does not know but this is a rape in waiting. Of course the perverts will abuse the situation.

We cannot talk about legitimate concerns on sharia imposition or men having four wifes in Canada (therefore abusing our laws and welfare system) without being labeled xenophobic, , we cannot now refuse men in women bathrooms without being labeled whatever, well the only thing we are left with to protect our children, women, culture and laws is becoming extreme right and voting for Trump. What a successfull blurring of the lines and decapitation of the power of progressive people, and of reasonable tolerance

Posted by Shannon (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
One cannot burn down a functional edifice that goes back genetically, for a million years, all due to a political, opportunist, and predatory moment - in modern exploited times.

I''m not interested in complicating life for 0.5% of the population or being mean to them, or making life miserable..... I'm interested in protecting the function of +99.5% over that exploited 0.5%.

And it really comes down to: Get the hell out of the women's bathroom. Or be forced out.

I agree 100%...

I'm sorry if I derailed akerons thread with the blog post, I felt it was relevant to the question of this whole very new trans issue being intentional and by design.

[bettye198]

Thanks for the interesting posts.
There is certainly a conundrum around the trans issue from everyone, the older folks to confused children asking questions. I have to know, my nature. I just want to know what is the chemical cause of a brain that denies its own gender and wants another? Even those who believe they are pan, not either gender. ( this was a cover story in the recent Time mag). I want to have tolerance yes, but I want to know more. We are not a very advanced society unless we explore the why.
I have a two lesbian cousins up in age now, who I adore. One gay nephew who will not give me the time of day or anyone else for that matter. I distinctly believe that the sexual orientation does not dictate behavior toward family but rather that is the personality of the person from the beginning. I have patients who are gay and we have a wonderful relationship deep down. All that is me wanting someone to be happy in their skin because their journey here is temporary. But my emotion over transgender is something I personally do not understand, so I need science and medicine and spirit to explain this.

There are alien beings who are both genders, some without. Are parts of society being hybridized with those genes? So much more to know.

Embryo's become male or female at 6-8 weeks. At that time, active gene SRY found on the Y chromosome produces testosterone. Without that hormone embryo's remain female.
No one knows YET how prenatal sex hormones shape the developing brain circuitry that controls your sense of gender identity.

[AutumnW]

There are several forces propelling the interest in transgender people along. There is a certain biological reality, there are cultural factors that shape that reality and then there are political psy-ops that use the issue for their own ends.

Biologically, there is something going on. I am SO different from my mother. It's not just culture. I am far more masculine minded, as are my sisters and most women I know. There may be higher incidents of what we used to call hermaphroditism, too, following that line of logic.

Though gender studies crowd are talking about 6 basic genders, the opposite seems to be more the case. Younger men, particularly, seem to be feminizing a little too, even in appearance. So rather than being 6 genders, it seems that the polarity between the two sexes is vanishing gradually and we are becoming a little more like just one gender.

Political forces, who would like to focus everybody away from survival problems and job loss and onto gender, (see radical liberal social justice warriors) and race, take the biological underpinnings of a real phenomenon and create fringe political movements that suit their own ends.

Opposing Conservative forces have put their own twist on this fringe group by amping it up as much as possible, media wise. It's a political psy-op that is now functioning as a deeply embedded part of society.

[AutumnW]

Woops double post