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Thread: Chemtrails don't exist

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)


    This is the document produced by the United Kingdom Government all party parliamentary select group on GeoEngineering or chemtrails.First I should explain what that is for those not in the UK.

    Essentially it’s a group of MPs from all political groups, so a mix of Conservatives Labour, Liberals, Scots nationalist, Welsh etc who have been nominated to look into GeoEngineering and publish a consultation paper. This is ongoing, it’s a consultation paper.


    Thanks Fred 259, from one Fred to another, if the British House of Commons and the United States Congress say that everything's o.k., that's good enough for me mate. No worries then.


    Cheers,
    Fred S.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)

    No I fed up really... this is just a piss take.... However I will agree if you post and tell dennis to go to his veggie garden. I wonder what he actually grows....
    I should have started reading this thread from page one rather than page three. Fred 259, are you purposely trying to discredit yourself with juvenile garbage like this?

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Fred259 this is only going to turn into the other recent threads on chemtrails

    As I stated in Icecolds recent thread, I used to not believe in chemtrail spraying either . . . I just couldn’t wrap my head around the “why would theys”

    That was until I saw the physical evidence. While at my farm in Kansas there have been at least three times (?) in the past 4 years that I have seen a fine covering of “dust” or “vermiculite “ type debris covering my farm equipment and even the ponds when the water is still. These occurrences of “dusting” happened after a full blown chemtrail spray. I walk outside to do chores with a clear blue sky and the planes begin their patterns and within a matter of hours the sky is completely overcast and a couple more hours later the “dust’ is covering my equipment . . . enough that I can sweep a small amount together.

    There were no weather patterns moving in . . . . as a farmer I watch the radars all the time. The overcast sky is from the chemtrails “melding” together . . . . you can actually watch it happen.

    I am an avid outdoors woman and am acutely aware of nature and what is normal and what is out of the ordinary.

    I still don’t know “the whys”. But I am taking action not only for this reality but also for all the other strange happenings around us that are undeniable.

    I am very pragmatic and it used to be maddening when I could not bring things to a complete logical explanation. I have learned over the years to peel away the fluff and absurdities and the improvable. Until I have the “absolutes”.

    Sometimes all we have is solid “circumstantial evidence” and this is what I personally have with chemtrails. I have observed the planes spraying, I have seen the “clouds” merging into a complete overcast and I have seen the debris or dust. I examined it and felt it between my fingers . . . . this “debris” is not normal.

    I would like to say Fred259 that my female intuition is picking up fear with your almost desperate attempts to convince us that chemtrails do not exist.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Apart from the fact they have admitted it (looking for details) about a year ago.

    Fred yes it is my garden, (last year), this year is work in progress ty
    "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves" C. G. Jung

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Fred259's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    [FONT="Arial"]Fred259
    Hi Blufire, thanks so much for posting, I posted the image of the globe in Post 49 with you very much in mind.
    Quote As I stated in Icecolds recent thread, I used to not believe in chemtrail spraying either . . . I just couldn’t wrap my head around the “why would theys”
    I agree why would they, see below..
    Quote That was until I saw the physical evidence. While at my farm in Kansas there have been at least three times (?) in the past 4 years that I have seen a fine covering of “dust” or “vermiculite “ type debris covering my farm equipment and even the ponds when the water is still.
    Yes I agree with you. Three times at least in four years. I agree, this will only happen when you have intense high pressure 1050/60mb over the whole of America and pushing right up into Northern Canada.
    Quote There were no weather patterns moving in . . . . as a farmer I watch the radars all the time. The overcast sky is from the chemtrails “melding” together . . . . you can actually watch it happen.
    Perhaps I didn’t explain myself plainly. We are talking about the dust or sand or vermiculite that you find on your equipment all around the farm.

    I agree with you no weather patterns or fronts are moving in. We agree. I’m really talking or explaining climatology here. The weather fronts occur in the “tropopause” up to and around 18-20,000 feet.(3 miles) I’m sharing with you the “Hadley Cell”. I’m not talking warm or cold frontal activity rather when high pressure dominates over North America air is subsiding out of this cell up in the heavens 10 miles above the Midwest.

    The cold air is subsiding from altitude down on the vast landmass of the Midwest and then diverging or spreading out at ground level pushing down south over New Mexico - all the way down towards Costa Rica thousands of miles from you - but warming as it moves over these lower latitudes - diverging and collecting dust sand and particles that are held in suspension in this air mass.

    Over Central America the warm air now starts to rise (Ascent) taking with it the sand and particles. The pressure 10 miles high above America drops slightly (but its still high pressure) and because it drops slightly - the warm air now flows or converges towards overhead the Midwest cooling as it progresses. The cool air then subsides over the Midwest and drops the sand and particles on the machinery. The process is continual when high preassure dominates.

    Name:  3d_hadley_md_v3.jpg
Views: 74
Size:  59.7 KB

    If you study this NASA globe that red arrow is the air that’s subsiding over the Midwest, then follow with your figure the air at the surface diverging all the way south, then rising or Ascent up into the heavens, then converging at altitude and flowing back over the Midwest. Notice how they have the red for warming and blue for cooling.

    Here is the scientific explanations from NASA and Wikipedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell

    http://mynasadata.larc.nasa.gov/glos...=Hadley%20Cell

    It’s over a vast area. Remember I said we in Scotland get sand and dust from the Sahara desert by this method 2,500 mile away. Its the Siberian High pressure zone in the Russian winter is also so intense 1050/60mb that it spreads from the Pacific ocean west towards the Atlantic ocean over Ireland, and down over the whole of Asia as far south as Darwin Australia, it doesn’t quite touch Darwin but weather in that area is dominated by its presence. Its huge, its nature.

    Quote I have seen the “clouds” merging into a complete overcast and I have seen the debris or dust. I examined it and felt it between my fingers . . . . this “debris” is not normal.
    I agree Blufire, the jet trails they will do this dissipating and spreading out blocking the blue sky. Rolls Royce in England who manufacture the engines are aware of this and the industry are working on a solution. Here is the report. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-research.html

    Quote I would like to say Fred259 that my female intuition is picking up fear with your almost desperate attempts to convince us that chemtrails do not exist.
    I’m not desperate, I'm trying to help you I replied to your post on the other thread, I sent a pm, you have my bio I'm just mad that people are being tricked and fooled. I was reading one of your other posts, and you were talking from your heart, and it made me angry that they do this to us. Maybe read up on the documents Blufire it’s all in the NASA link above. Look I have friend in Wisconsin retired NWA, ex Annapolis and North Dakota ANG he also has a cattle ranch, good christian if you want I can get him to contact you. Pm me if you want.

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    Okay ... we simply have to agree to disagree ... and I really do appreciate the tone you are making your views heard. That is what Avalon is about.

    I know what I have observed on a personal basis for many years.

    Yes ... it is a holographic universerve and our level of consciousness can define what we "see" ... I understand this.

    If I see a "Jesus" holograph in the skies with lotso ufos flying around I will laugh histerically ... crack open a beer ... pull out the lawnchair and enjoy the show.



    I simply do not believe on a PERSONAL basis "chemtrails" can be so easily explained away.

    You could be correct ... as always I am offering my own HUMBLE opinion
    Carlz, this is really frightening I have been flying for 24 years as a co pilot and captain in Europe and Africa. These days I work for a leasing company selling hull leases doing delivery, testing etc and above all engine leases in EMEA and Russia.

    Aircraft have no delivery or storage system for any of what is described here. Threads like switching on and off chemtrails, its laughable where is the switch, where is the circuit breaker, which pump, which electrical system…where are the manual diagrams its all 100% toffee…you have more chance of seeing the Loch Ness Monster, than a chemtrail over your city ! lol
    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Fred259 this is only going to turn into the other recent threads on chemtrails

    As I stated in Icecolds recent thread, I used to not believe in chemtrail spraying either . . . I just couldn’t wrap my head around the “why would theys”

    That was until I saw the physical evidence. While at my farm in Kansas there have been at least three times (?) in the past 4 years that I have seen a fine covering of “dust” or “vermiculite “ type debris covering my farm equipment and even the ponds when the water is still. These occurrences of “dusting” happened after a full blown chemtrail spray. I walk outside to do chores with a clear blue sky and the planes begin their patterns and within a matter of hours the sky is completely overcast and a couple more hours later the “dust’ is covering my equipment . . . enough that I can sweep a small amount together.

    There were no weather patterns moving in . . . . as a farmer I watch the radars all the time. The overcast sky is from the chemtrails “melding” together . . . . you can actually watch it happen.

    I am an avid outdoors woman and am acutely aware of nature and what is normal and what is out of the ordinary.

    I still don’t know “the whys”. But I am taking action not only for this reality but also for all the other strange happenings around us that are undeniable.

    I am very pragmatic and it used to be maddening when I could not bring things to a complete logical explanation. I have learned over the years to peel away the fluff and absurdities and the improvable. Until I have the “absolutes”.

    Sometimes all we have is solid “circumstantial evidence” and this is what I personally have with chemtrails. I have observed the planes spraying, I have seen the “clouds” merging into a complete overcast and I have seen the debris or dust. I examined it and felt it between my fingers . . . . this “debris” is not normal.

    I would like to say Fred259 that my female intuition is picking up fear with your almost desperate attempts to convince us that chemtrails do not exist.
    Loth as I am to enter this nonsense again ... I shall.

    Fred259 ... our resident expert on chemtrails ... after several respectful and friendly exchanges in Ice's thread could not accept that we "agree to disagree" and proceeded to attack on a personal level.

    At which point I said I would waste no more energy with him.

    blufire has jumped back into this thread so I will (loth as I am to "do battle") post once again because I respect her "boots on the ground" personal assessment as opposed to a robotic (likely) troll response.


    When two people "agree to disagree" ... that isn't a bad thing. It happens (a lot).

    When someone is polite and respectful in an exchange of divergent opinions quite often that is the end result.

    Why someone can not walk away with a respectful difference of opinion one has to question the motives.


    Perhaps ... someone could explore some ego examination.

    More likely ... someone has agenda to be here (yes it happens).


    I have witnessed on a personal basis and examined overwhelming evidence of the result of *CHEMTRAILS*.

    I will yawn and no longer consider Fred259's posts otherwise ...

    I am open minded regarding most everything but unless someone (else) can come up with some remarkable proof against chemtrails it is simply a no-brainer at this point.

    respectfully and imho
    Last edited by Calz; 6th May 2011 at 06:40. Reason: typo

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    Default Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Hello Fred: Probably got a good laugh at the videos I posted previously so I thought I would give you more evidence that spraying from jets is possible and is being done for different reasons. This particular firm has the biggest water bomber on the planet. It's a 747 which I have personally had the priviledge of touring and can say it's impressive!!
    This jet was used in the gulf oil spill to spray the chemicals to help get rid of the oil. I know you don't believe BUT the case is, has and was already made that it's possible. I don't exactly know why there are chemtrails BUT do know they exists and can be sprayed easily.
    Enjoy the website and photos. IF by chance you cannot see the sprayers in this website then just click on refresh.....
    Regards,
    Chancy

    http://www.evergreenaviation.com/sup...r/gallery.html

    PS Click on the photos of the nozzles (spraying apparatus under the aircraft)

    You might even become a believer when you see this setup. It's the biggest in the world and very impressive. It will certainly make you laugh because it's documented proof. Enjoy.......

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Ya know Fred259 you remind me of the “experts” that came out to my farm (from USDA, United States Department of Agriculture and NCRS Natural Resources Conservation Service) and told me which way my terraces in the cropland should run and where the best place my new barn should go and which way it should face.

    When they left I went about my terrace and barn placement based on two years of observing carefully how the rain water drained from my fields and the way the wind moved through the land during the different seasons. Erosion is nicely controlled with two new ponds and even a “wet area” so I have a full eco-system. The new barn has a wonderful breeze during the summer coming through the alley way and is snug in the winter.

    These experts were so full of boloney and I’m inclined to have the same opinion with your postings on this matter.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Fred someone who gets so wound up about an opposing theory has just reversed you into the same parking lot they accuse the opposing voice . Bound in an IDEA.

    The point of alternative media is to inform people, and that means opposing voices are adding to that information.

    People deal with this responisbly by saying "okay I'm aware of this. It may or not be true but I have it for future reference either way. "

    Once you get all fired up about, jump on a bandwagon and MUST prove that your opposition is the 'way it is" you are as brainwashed as the people you accuse as opposing you.

    Just because there's an idea chemtrails are stuck out there by the PTB is not reason for people to stop wondering about them. UNTIL we know it is just another divisionary tactic and you seem to have fallen right into that trap as much as anyone else.

    And yes we have means of spraying chemicals in the air and have for 100 years.

    Google: Cropduster.




    into the
    Quote Posted by Fred259 (here)
    John what they want to do is turn you into a moron by feeding you all this rubbish.

    You know don’t you that some real nasty bastards exist in this world. You only need to go down to London and visit the Tavistock Institute and see some of the dark practices that emanate from that organisation.

    The next concept you must accept is that they are trying to dumb you down. Clearly this is not something that anyone would want. That being the case its best you treat most things you read and listen to on the web as highly suspect.

    If you do this your mind and understanding will be free from those who seek to control you. To support this and the content of this thread I did this afternoon post up the HM Government Commons Select Committee report into Geo Engineering. It’s featured one above in post five.

    The document clearly states that the committee is looking at all GeoEngineering options and that above all the public would be consulted and would have input into the outcome. It’s just a consultative document.

    No decision has been made and probably given the length of time these things take will be in the order eight to ten years before any decision is made. That being the case its not really possible is it that they were GeoEngineering or chemtrailing over the NE of England today.

    So what was the problem today. Look at the weather chart and you will see that high pressure dominates the whole of the UK and most of continental Europe at this time and this is the reason these jet trails are in the skies.

    In your post you wonder if the weather will make a turn for the worst, No they will be gone by 22.00 tonight and you will see the stars all night. It will be the same tomorrow and perhaps for a week or so. When the high pressure system moves the atmosphere will change and you won’t see any trails just as it was last week.

    John aircraft have no means whatsoever of spraying chemicals from the air, so please stop believing this.

    I encourage you to look into this rather than believing everything you read on websites. If you choose not to sadly you are a victim of deception from the criminals in Tavistock Square.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Clifford E Carnicom
    Here is someone who has dedicated his life to the subject.

    He has covered it all from every angle, including the laboratory.

    Looking through his website I went through a couple drop down menus, and found this:

    The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
    chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

    time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
    / power

    where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
    a substance (ice).

    or

    t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

    where t is the time required for contrail
    dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
    crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
    kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
    watts.

    Calculating the internal energy, or enthalpy, of water vapor often
    involves several phase changes, as water varies between solid, liquid
    and vapor under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In
    the case of a contrail composed of water vapor, the heat of
    transformation will consist of two phases. The first is the amount
    of heat required to raise the temperature of the ice crystal at a
    sub-zero temperature to 0 deg. C., which will be designated as Q in
    the present case. The second segment of heat required will be that
    which melts the ice crystal to a liquid form. The primary processes
    involved in contrail formation therefore appear to involve:


    http://carnicom.com/

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by SEAM (here)
    Clifford E Carnicom
    Here is someone who has dedicated his life to the subject.

    He has covered it all from every angle, including the laboratory.

    Looking through his website I went through a couple drop down menus, and found this:

    The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
    chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

    time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
    / power

    where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
    a substance (ice).

    or

    t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

    where t is the time required for contrail
    dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
    crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
    kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
    watts.

    Calculating the internal energy, or enthalpy, of water vapor often
    involves several phase changes, as water varies between solid, liquid
    and vapor under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In
    the case of a contrail composed of water vapor, the heat of
    transformation will consist of two phases. The first is the amount
    of heat required to raise the temperature of the ice crystal at a
    sub-zero temperature to 0 deg. C., which will be designated as Q in
    the present case. The second segment of heat required will be that
    which melts the ice crystal to a liquid form. The primary processes
    involved in contrail formation therefore appear to involve:


    http://carnicom.com/
    Okay ... thanks for that.

    I hate to repeat from other threads ... but regarding CONTRAILS what has changed in the last few years?

    What in the formula(s) you offer has changed from when "chemtrails" started to appear above most all of our skies?

    I am not a scientist ... but I don't see anything in the formula(s) you present that had any reason to morph into something different since "chemtrails" started to appear.

    Lastly ... what from said formula(s) explain the aluminum/barium/other residue that has appeared on the ground???

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    This particular page is worthwhile reading for both sides of this debate:

    [B]CAUTIONS AGAINST PREMATURE CONCLUSIONS[/B]

    http://carnicom.com/caution1.htm

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    Quote Posted by SEAM (here)
    Clifford E Carnicom
    Here is someone who has dedicated his life to the subject.

    He has covered it all from every angle, including the laboratory.

    Looking through his website I went through a couple drop down menus, and found this:

    The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
    chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

    time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
    / power

    where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
    a substance (ice).

    or

    t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

    where t is the time required for contrail
    dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
    crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
    kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
    watts.

    Calculating the internal energy, or enthalpy, of water vapor often
    involves several phase changes, as water varies between solid, liquid
    and vapor under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In
    the case of a contrail composed of water vapor, the heat of
    transformation will consist of two phases. The first is the amount
    of heat required to raise the temperature of the ice crystal at a
    sub-zero temperature to 0 deg. C., which will be designated as Q in
    the present case. The second segment of heat required will be that
    which melts the ice crystal to a liquid form. The primary processes
    involved in contrail formation therefore appear to involve:


    http://carnicom.com/
    Okay ... thanks for that.

    I hate to repeat from other threads ... but regarding CONTRAILS what has changed in the last few years?

    What in the formula(s) you offer has changed from when "chemtrails" started to appear above most all of our skies?

    I am not a scientist ... but I don't see anything in the formula(s) you present that had any reason to morph into something different since "chemtrails" started to appear.

    Lastly ... what from said formula(s) explain the aluminum/barium/other residue that has appeared on the ground???
    I'm trying to point you towrds the website, that's all.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    This is good.. I intend to look into this guy... he's being threatened, wire tapped, He's on to something.

    .

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Thank you SEAM ... good vid from Alex

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Fred

    What kind of credentials do you personally have? You sure are convinced by more government rubbish that excludes existing chemtrails, the photos and the technical analysis of the garbage that they are spraying from planes that you claim can not be done. How convenient. Personally I have heard that TPTB now have "trolls" writing on forums. Is the pay good?

    Fran

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by blufire
    the past 4 years that I have seen a fine covering of “dust” or “vermiculite “ type debris covering my farm equipment and even the ponds when the water is still.
    Hello Blufire- have you ever had any testing done on this "dust". It might be interesting to see what the particles are made up of no ?
    Last edited by Amer; 5th May 2011 at 20:37. Reason: fix quotes
    Know Thyself

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    Fred259 (5th May 2011)

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by Grannyfranny100
    Fred

    What kind of credentials do you personally have? You sure are convinced by more government rubbish that excludes existing chemtrails, the photos and the technical analysis of the garbage that they are spraying from planes that you claim can not be done. How convenient. Personally I have heard that TPTB now have "trolls" writing on forums. Is the pay good?

    Fran
    A tad nasty/ott perhaps Fran
    Know Thyself

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Quote Posted by blufire (here)
    Ya know Fred259 you remind me of the “experts” that came out to my farm (from USDA, United States Department of Agriculture and NCRS Natural Resources Conservation Service) and told me which way my terraces in the cropland should run and where the best place my new barn should go and which way it should face.

    When they left I went about my terrace and barn placement based on two years of observing carefully how the rain water drained from my fields and the way the wind moved through the land during the different seasons. Erosion is nicely controlled with two new ponds and even a “wet area” so I have a full eco-system. The new barn has a wonderful breeze during the summer coming through the alley way and is snug in the winter.

    These experts were so full of boloney and I’m inclined to have the same opinion with your postings on this matter.
    Hello Blufire, If I may say so I do think you are being a little disingenuous now. I am only trying to assist and share my experience with you and the forum.

    I would urge that you perhaps read at another time the NASA document on the “Hadley Cell” and take professional opinion on the matter if you are not satisfied. I do think you will find that this is what you are experiencing and reporting.

    In Post 21 I explained and provided scientific reference documents on the atmosphere and cloud formation for the benefit of the forum. Being a farmer cloud formation and rainfall of course is critical. I would suggest therefore if you apply your existing knowledge to the matter and in so doing this will allay your fears relating to these jet trails.
    Last edited by Fred259; 5th May 2011 at 21:43.

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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    Everyone seems very attached to the Chemtrailing theory. So far Fred259 has provided the stronger argument. Waiting for someone with advanced rhetorical skills and documentation to offer rebuttal. For myself, I've had to yield and consider telling everyone I alerted about this phenomena that I was quite possibly wrong and perhaps we should go for a nice nature hike in the clean fresh air.

    Oh wait.. forgot about Fukushima.

    PS. 9eagle9 seems to be saying that Fred bears the burden of proof. I don't think this is so. If it is, he's done an admirable job of shouldering it.
    Last edited by 3optic; 5th May 2011 at 22:16.
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    Default Re: David Icke,Alex Jones,Stewart Swerdlow - Chemtrails,bloody everywhere!!

    [QUOTE=Calz_Avaretard;211873]
    Quote Posted by SEAM (here)
    Clifford E Carnicom
    Here is someone who has dedicated his life to the subject.

    He has covered it all from every angle, including the laboratory.

    Looking through his website I went through a couple drop down menus, and found this:

    The basic form of the contrail dissipation model, based upon the
    chemistry, mathematics and physics of thermodynamics is as follows:

    time for dissipation = (mass of water crystal * (Q + heat of fusion))
    / power

    where Q is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of
    a substance (ice).

    or

    t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

    where t is the time required for contrail
    dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
    crystal in kilograms, Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
    kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
    watts.

    Calculating the internal energy, or enthalpy, of water vapor often
    involves several phase changes, as water varies between solid, liquid
    and vapor under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In
    the case of a contrail composed of water vapor, the heat of
    transformation will consist of two phases. The first is the amount
    of heat required to raise the temperature of the ice crystal at a
    sub-zero temperature to 0 deg. C., which will be designated as Q in
    the present case. The second segment of heat required will be that
    which melts the ice crystal to a liquid form. The primary processes
    involved in contrail formation therefore appear to involve:


    http://carnicom.com/
    Okay ... thanks for that.

    Quote I hate to repeat from other threads ... but regarding CONTRAILS what has changed in the last few years?
    Hello Callz,

    You post and ask about the formula provided by Seam in Post 63. It is of course central to the problem.

    I agree, four changes have happened over the last ten to fifteen years.

    1) Air travel has increased dramatically particularly so low fare airlines.
    2) Changes in airways and navigation procedures, leading to reduced lateral separation,
    3) Three and four engine aircraft are being replaced with two engined aircraft or “twins” however the power output has doubled. Changes in engine design essentially.
    4) Mass mis/ dis information available by the internet. IMHO

    Quote What in the formula(s) you offer has changed from when "chemtrails" started to appear above most all of our skies?
    t(sec) = (m (kg) * Ht(kj/kg)) / P(watts)

    where t is the time required for contrail
    dissipation(transformation), in seconds, m is the mass of the ice
    crystal in kilograms,
    Ht is the heat of transformation of ice in
    kilojoules per kilogram, and P is the power applied to the system in
    watts.

    The bold section above is “what has changed” to answer your question, and I would suggest this has been caused by effectively the doubling of engine power output, which means the mass of the ice crystals in kilograms will also double, leading to bigger trails requiring a greater amount of kilojoules/kg to disperse these trails.

    A single aircraft flying between points A and B would have minimum effect in increasing cloud cover. However many members in the US talk about criss crosses in the skies and lines of jet trails.

    Therefore larger trails caused by larger power output, and reduced separation over parts of North America and parts of Europe would in turn cause the time taken (duration) for total cloud cover to occur to be decreased.

    IMHO.


    Quote I am not a scientist ... but I don't see anything in the formula(s) you present that had any reason to morph into something different since "chemtrails" started to appear.
    I would agree.

    Quote Lastly ... what from said formula(s) explain the aluminum/barium/other residue that has appeared on the ground???
    Dont know.
    Last edited by Fred259; 5th May 2011 at 22:29.

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