Tension in the air, good and not good.

[linz2d]

Well some may find this strange but when I look a the Worm tongue thread in the General Discussion area I think it is good that the mods are getting things off their chests but I also see the negative side of it, as it a very one sided point of view.

I do not know, if there was more openness in our differences and our arguments where brought forward and if we called a spade a spade then perhaps it would not have blown up to this state.

From the spiritual side of things it is a good lesson for learning. For we in this community are no different than any country which has a hidden side to it. For the ones involved in the arguments it is an opportunity to learn. From the observers point of view it is an opportunity to learn. In this Avalon community if we cannot change it for the better then how do we expect to change the world for the better?

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by linz2d (here)
Well some may find this strange but when I look a the Worm tongue thread in the General Discussion area I think it is good that the mods are getting things off their chests but I also see the negative side of it, as it a very one sided point of view.

I do not know, if there was more openness in our differences and our arguments where brought forward and if we called a spade a spade then perhaps it would not have blown up to this state.

From the spiritual side of things it is a good lesson for learning. For we in this community are no different than any country which has a hidden side to it. For the ones involved in the arguments it is an opportunity to learn. From the observers point of view it is an opportunity to learn. In this Avalon community if we cannot change it for the better then how do we expect to change the world for the better?

agreed, yet why start another thread on such a trivial matter..?

[king anthony]

Limits should not govern potential of direction; as the 'lesson' of learning can lead to great things.

[linz2d]

No, it was not my intention to start another worm tongue but rather one on tension and anger, I believe this is also what the spirituality section is here for so that we may discuss such things. To overcome ones anger and anger towards others is very important.

[firstlook]

For me its about embracing peoples dark side. There is a reason for every choice. If you take the time and patience to work out why people take certain actions, there is no need to condemn it. Cause and effect can be played out two ways IMO.

You understand the cause and proceed to treat it without it actually being the subject of reflection. Or. You let that cause put fear in you, and you try to reject its energy.

I'm coming to the realization that you cannot reject ANY energy, whether positive or negative. You can only make it into something of your understanding. This then balances out the confusion and uncomfortable concerns. Thus eliminating the confrontation.

Although it takes focus. Its hard to remember this when you are putting out alot of energy yourself.

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by firstlook (here)
For me its about embracing peoples dark side. There is a reason for every choice. If you take the time and patience to work out why people take certain actions, there is no need to condemn it. Cause and effect can be played out two ways IMO.

You understand the cause and proceed to treat it without it actually being the subject of reflection. Or. You let that cause put fear in you, and you try to reject its energy.

I'm coming to the realization that you cannot reject ANY energy, whether positive or negative. You can only make it into something of your understanding. This then balances out the confusion and uncomfortable concerns. Thus eliminating the confrontation.

Although it takes focus. Its hard to remember this when you are putting out alot of energy yourself.

Do not judge people. (detachment)
Assess intents. (care)

[firstlook]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Do not judge people. (detachment)
Assess intents. (care)

Indeed.

I would even take it a step further and turn intent into reasoning. Intent implies future outlook of the individual. Its hard enough for that person to work out his own intent within the moment, that I feel its even more sidetracking for an outside party to assume that ever changing intent.

I find that most people dont know there true intent while debating. The act of debating is more akin to understanding ourselves through another's reflections. Even when we think we are 100% about something, we always can add infinite context and possibilities to that philosophy.

It makes the idea of intent only a temporary understanding at that particular moment. Perhaps that is where confrontation stems from. One party claiming Truth that is infallible and the other becoming frustrated a that debate.

Maybe, dont quote me on it.

[buckminster fuller]

Ok, no quote..

You're right about the subjectivity of our perception of other people's intents. It is an ever flowing process, yet, patterns emerge, colors, the rethoric used, body language. Truly there is no actual way to 'assess' it. Wrote it too fast. Thanks for pointing.

Peace

[firstlook]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
Ok, no quote..

You're right about the subjectivity of our perception of other people's intents. It is an ever flowing process, yet, patterns emerge, colors, the rethoric used, body language. Truly there is no actual way to 'assess' it. Wrote it too fast. Thanks for pointing.

Peace

Your are right though. Assessing patterns is totally natural. I guess maybe I should try and word it differently.

All in all it seems that even the act of understanding is never complete. We need to take brakes when we get tired and have to reboot all of our information.

The art of communication is such an over looked discipline. I think we assume sometimes it should come naturally all the time. That we should be able to interact at every moment.

Perhaps this is not the case.

[buckminster fuller]

We have to transcend our inability to fully comprehend things. We are just not fitted to this task. Truth is.. truth is always a personal view of things, and when it comes to try to grasp other's views, it can only be done averaging the incoming data. In a world where consciousness would matter, rethoric and semantics would be part of everyone's education.

[linz2d]

Perhaps we should not judge but try to understand each other and this understanding will change over time but could there be the problem that through understanding we begin to judge? And the point should be raised that we are always comparing our point of views with others, and when we see that they are not compatible do we not judge?

[firstlook]

Good questions linz2d.

The issue of compatibleness I think ties back into assessing another's intent. Since that intent is always subject to change, I think that relieves some of the concern.

Buckminster brought up the important topic of semantics too. The word itself, Judge, can come with many attachments from its user that differ from outside perceptions.

Atleast its refreshing to know that we sometimes are not compatible with a person one day, but the next we find a pattern to share.

Going with this flow helps ease the strain.

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by linz2d (here)
Perhaps we should not judge but try to understand each other and this understanding will change over time but could there be the problem that through understanding we begin to judge? And the point should be raised that we are always comparing our point of views with others, and when we see that they are not compatible do we not judge?

I think it's important to make the distinction between judgement (that is applied to individuals) and personal analysis of things (that relates to everything else). Boris Vian, a french author, poet, singer of the post 2d world war period, pointed out that it is impossible to judge people, based on the fact that in order to do so, one should be aware of every detail that goes into the history of the person one wants to judge. What his life has been, what he ate in the morning, how well he slept, what temperature is in the room... Unless one knows all of it, there is no way to "fairly" judge someone. (not talking about court judgements, where facts are looked at)

[linz2d]

So perhaps using a word like "differences" would be more appropriate. It is our differences that set us apart. And understanding those difference may bring us closer together.... Do I want to get closer though?

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by linz2d (here)
So perhaps using a word like "differences" would be more appropriate. It is our differences that set us apart. And understanding those difference may bring us closer together.... Do I want to get closer though?

Guess you wouldn't be here otherwise... Maybe we don't need to understand the differences, simply to accept them.

[firstlook]

The act of comparing a persons life to yours, alone shows the intense process. One could get lost in all the disagreements about how to do this and how to do that.

Finding a certain focal point to focus on is what I love about the topic of philosophy. I think spiritual discipline mirrors the same process. Perhaps spirituality has been the issue of intense debate in the world because more then any other practice/structure, it totally focuses the subconscious and the subjective as the core of being. This creates the common understanding throughout most spiritual teachings that responsibilities of understanding ALWAYS comes from yourself. That Good and Evil look the same.

I have never found spirituality easy. Thats what makes it so intriguing. It never implies any promise of an answer.

[BrianEn]

That thread as started so an individual could heal. It is a person's right to heal. We should be allowed to do as such if we are going to make any difference in each others' lives. The more healed we become the stronger we get so that the ties that bind us become stronger than that which would tear us apart.

[firstlook]

Posted by BrianEn (here)
That thread as started so an individual could heal. It is a person's right to heal. We should be allowed to do as such if we are going to make any difference in each others' lives. The more healed we become the stronger we get so that the ties that bind us become stronger than that which would tear us apart.

I think the concern is how that healing effects others.

Indeed everyone has the sovereign right to replenish their own energy. Does this healing require validation though? Its an interesting question to ponder.

[write4change]

firstlook,

I come to look forward to encountering you and the perceptive and incisive way you think that gets my reflections deeper.

Thank you.

[linz2d]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)

Posted by linz2d (here)
So perhaps using a word like "differences" would be more appropriate. It is our differences that set us apart. And understanding those difference may bring us closer together.... Do I want to get closer though?

Guess you wouldn't be here otherwise... Maybe we don't need to understand the differences, simply to accept them.

Accept the differences, the individual or both? Because it is the difference in opinion, beliefs and ideas that separates, this can cause tension between two people. Maybe that is all we have to do, is accept that they are different than we are. I do not have to agree with a person but I can accept their views. Should we not also accept the possibility that we may be wrong? Perhaps we are to defensive in our own beliefs.

firstlook I do not think spirituality is meant to be easy.

BrianEn I do not know if it heals, as it is good to get things of your chest but as firstlook does point out that is does effect others, it has already changed people views in some way or another. Is it for the good or the bad... who really knows, as it is what the individual takes from the experience that matters,