Integrity

[Flash]

Quotes in black from Chicodoodoo post 230. In purple are my comments - Flash

Bravo, Flash! This cuts to the heart of the matter. There may be a BIG problem here on Avalon where integrity and tolerance clash. That is the point, integrity and tolerance should not have to clash. An integral person knows itself and knows where he is not congruent, this is integrity. Not being only one piece, but knowing where we lack, admitting it, forgiving it. Liking diversity and hating individuality would not be integrity, it would be being messed up

This post of Bill's on "Integrity" really needs to be seen in context, and that context cannot be seen without hearing the voices of those Avalon members that have been recently banned. With that context, the reasons behind Bill’s post become more visible.


Speculation: Bill is using the ideas of "ownership", "integrity", and "separation" to justify his actions of intolerance and non-acceptance that are resulting in the increasingly common unsubscribing of Avalon members. If you don't mind my intrusion, be carefull here Chicodoodoo, have you checked with Bill about those speculations - I am glad you used that last term, it puts it into context

1. Bill "owns" the Avalon forum. He models this public forum as a private club. Bill emphatically reserves the right to dismiss anyone for any reason at any time. The separation is sudden, complete, and final. There is no oversight or review of this power. As we all know, there is the very real risk of corruption when power like this is reserved to a single person. Again, be careful and check. It may seem like this without being like that. But it points definitely to a communication interface missing or problematic: may be rules for the forum are not specific and clear enough. What are the values to be carried by this forum, how are they defined, what are the no no behaviors in specifics. Where and when is the line crossed for no return? We are from widely varied backgrounds, cultures and languages, behaviors have different meanings as well as words depending on where you are on the planet or in your head. If we were in he heart and beyond, most of these problems would be absent though - it is called evolution

2. The rationalization that Bill makes for removing Avalon members is that he is acting with integrity by following the ground rules he himself has laid out. The human legal system has sunk into this same trap, where the law is manipulated to legalize unjust actions. At the same time, the condemned Avalon members stand accused of lacking integrity, but they are given no recourse to any defense whatsoever. I am not sure this is a rationalization. Could it be lack of clarity in communicating values? Could it be changing values? One thing I know is that I personnaly, in my private life, dropped all those that were constantly pulling me down with destructive comments and action, or with manipulative behaviors, after numerous times of trying to communicate my needs and desire for better. I also personnally realised that I still have quite a lot of negative thinking in me, therefore attracting the negative, which I am cleaning up as well. May be Bill is just doing that, plain and simple.t

3. A further rationalization is that the process of separation is occurring all over the world, so it must be OK to participate in it. We all know that separation is part of the "divide and conquer" strategy used by the controllers to subdue humanity. Avalon, like humanity, should be uniting, not separating.Yes, in fact we are all one. Those that have negative behaviors and comments are a reflection of us - we are in these fields with them, together, we are one. It does not mean that we have to remain underneath, a victim though. Getting out of the pattern may be the lesson to learn and to give, together. When talking about "beyond", we are taliking of the whole field of energy in the universe. It is my belief that to overcome PTB we have to go into these fields. And bring them back here. PTB is still too powerful otherwise.This means tolerance, respect of everyone in their state (including PTB) but not sinking into victimhood. It is mostly acceptance of oneself, with one's rotten side as well, and forgiveness to oneself first. (This is what I was seeing you trying to do Chicodoodoo, with your thread on a new world declaration, going beyond and changing the field here).

I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?[/QUOTE] I do agree with myself at this point. I just want to add that tolerance, love and integrity are one, they do not have to clash.

[norman]

I'm wondering if a house full of guests is really a good model for the future.

My gut tells me the right model is a family home.

[jjl]

Family by invite only? I dont know...I like guest better. It lends more civility to the idea and discourse

[benevolentcrow]

This is Bill's home and I think he is saying "Not in my house!" I appreciate and respect his wishes. I am humbled to be a part of something that tries to be pure of heart...

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
Just a small and perhaps unimportant question. Is it true that Modwiz was asked to

leave Avalon because of something he wrote on another forum?

Bill Ryan:
Anyone is free and welcome to say anything they want to anywhere on the internet - but not here.

As Modwiz has been a dear friend of mine here on PA for several months and still is my friend

I really would like to know wot has happened. I really dont know. Is it too much to ask?

[norman]

Posted by benevolentcrow (here)
This is Bill's home and I think he is saying "Not in my house!" I appreciate and respect his wishes. I am humbled to be a part of something that tries to be pure of heart...

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.
~Leonard Cohen

I agree it's something trying to be pure, but, I'm inclined to think it's a purity of mind that's aspired here here more than a purity of heart.

My cerebral instinct is in alignment with it quite well and when I'm lost or disturbed it shines brightly as beacon to head for.

When I ocassionally get more in touch with my heart I get a wobble about it and wonder if it's actually a lighthouse on a rock.


As I said earlier in this thread somewhere, I'm quite confused. I have been for a few months.

[EsmaEverheart]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
I'm watching this thread move like a wave. It started becoming cathartic movement and then started sinking into "he said this, they did that", which I don't think was the purpose of the thread.

It seems that there is a difference of opinion as to what Avalon is. I saw this alot when the drama went down a few months ago. The concept that this is a private forum supporting a private goal is just bouncing off some people. Especially when people are here for a longer period of time and give their own time and energy to the project. There is a sense of entitlement and a sense that there is an inherent right to be here. There is an almost demand that the forum be run in a legalistic, transparent, democratic, and "fair" way with consensus from the members. from this perception comes the feelings of injustice which still linger months after the big hoopla. There is no inherent right to transparency as regards to mod decisions. The members of Avalon are not here to act as a "check" on the powers of the mod team or Bill. There is no "jury of your peers" and legal due process.

If you don't like it, move along. there are plenty of places to be. Quit whining about it.

If you do not know the difference between healthy dissension and sedition, please go train on that. Start here http://www.cnvc.org/

To me, Avalon is partially created by the intention vibration of those who participate in it. If I am running a project and people are participating in it, but are meanwhile bad mouthing it and slandering me elsewhere, well that's a no brainer that they don't belong with the project. Their intention energy is misaligned with the project. It's NOT personal. It's just energies aligning and frequencies stratifying.

This is Bill's show. That doesn't make it a "cult". Bill has always said that he sees himself as a coach, not a leader, but when people are not holding the vibrational integrity which is core to the project, then what exactly is the point of their participation? Participation is not an inherent right!

And another thing. Bill is involved with projects that most of you know nothing about (Nor do you have any special right to). I'm surprised he has time to come here at all, let alone answer individual pm's and emails. Don't take that personally.

The thank you button wasn't enough. I thought the same thing, but you said it much better than I could have.

[jjl]

I think if everyone takes a deep breath and relaxes for a moment, we can quiet down and appreciate the harmony that is flowing again.

[Jendayi]

hi guys 'n gals..
i guess i reacted a bit emotional to the whole thing... i have adjusted my signature accordingly.. i will stay on avalon but will reduce my presence again, like i did before and try to only share thoughts from my own personal experience and no longer get caught up in discussions like these.. i have way more valuable information to share on a more personal level, touching upon the core of our being, especially regarding the healing of emotional and sexual imbalances.. i can help people to let go... now i just need to find a way to express it without needing others to get me going... and without offending anyone I guess.. (please read that i say "Try" for a reason, i am still human..


i just really love modwiz's being.. he is a gentle soul who, i believe, deserves better...
I still don't understand fully what is going on here... and i don't care anymore.. i have not lost a friend, just one way of communicating with him.. i realize that now..
namaste!

p.s.
just saw that this post generated my 777th "Thanks" so that is definitely a sign! Thanks Norman or JJl (did not see who was first )
p.p.s. Just saw modwiz on the other forum where he received 777 thanks so far... ( I Kid you not!!! just doesn't feel right to make a screenshot)
now that's what i call syncronicity!!!! this IS freaking me out a bit but i am enjoying the ride...
let's see where it will all lead, shall we?

[giovonni]

Again... this is Bill's forum and we all are invited guest here...
But the term banishment does not resonate well with me...the word mor·a·to·ri·um however does much better...as it is in the state of Bliss (a state of clarity rest and reflection) ~ there is no need for this permanent state of being ~ just a timeout for contemplation upon learned lessons. i have always tried to be respectful in honoring Bill and All others (who have come and gone) here at Avalon. i believe forgiveness is (or should be) a big component of anyone's reflective integrity...i would chose to follow.

[jjl]

breath in............................................... breath out

[jjl]

I will speak up as one person who was harassed by one of the banished members. This happened when I first came on and lasted for six hours. I imagine that mine was not the only case. I am relieved. I got to be AFRAID of posting. It feels better knowing at least one "Basher" got consequenced. I do realize it could happen to me too, but facts are facts. The mods are privy to things the rest of us are not. That's all I will say from personal experience on this subject.

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by Jendayi (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)

Posted by Jendayi (here)
@ Flash:
glad to be a member of a club that has no name!!!!

Wot about ordinary humans?

i am an ordinary human! don't know if i have an ordinary way of thinking though...

Im convinced that everybody who has the ability to think, is thinking in their own unique way.

But most humans cant think. They just register thoughts and thats not thinking.

[Janos]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?

I think that you have hit the nail on the head and gotten to the crux of the matter here.

How does Avalon solve the problems of the world, if we can't even solve them here in our own house?

[jjl]

it's seems to be the "our house" that is a sticking point. Bill does not "own ' nexus, nor do I consider this "my house" I am an invited guest here. (meaning that if Bill visits Nexus, he doesnt leave flaming bags everywhere for people to step on)

[Janos]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

I concur wholeheartedly with this suggestion. And while I intuit a collective "sigh" from the Mods, perhaps the most constructive aspect of this suggestion is that it would allow for an exploration of the phenomenon of dissonance Bill describes, and which he also admits he does not fully understand. If there is something happening here, and others seem to concur there is, it would be helpful to examine it. What's going on inside Avalon may represent a microcosm of some universal phenomenon taking place that is very much worthy of our reflection.

I would also submit, and echo other's notes, that yes, this is indeed a microcosm of the problems in the world.

If we can't solve them here without resorting to banning everyone, how the heck are we going to fix the problems in the world. How are we 'being the change we want to see' in the world?

What happens when you are faced with real world problems, and just can't 'ban' your way out of a problem.

A ban, is almost always, a failure of communication... on the part of the banning party, to communicate or understand the point of view of the one being banned.

To use an example, Modwiz had... what... 4500 'thanks' for his posts, where fellow Avalonians took the time to thank him for his efforts.

If that is an example of a troll that needs banned, I think I'm on the wrong planet.

But I digress. This thread is about integrity.

'Integrity' is achieved by right and righteous action. Not by declaring that you have it and everyone else you disagree with does not.

Look after people like Chicodoodoo. He's one of that 10% where the growth of Avalon will come from. Someone who questions and truly seeks an answer, in order to answer to his OWN integrity.

These people are worth their weight in gold for the value they bring to this forum. Without them... stagnation and slow demise into mediocrity.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Often it's not what we say, but how we say it. Learning to talk softer and more respectfully is an art worth pursuing. Also, be aware of your real intention behind your words.

That being said, in these days when most of us are feeling the deprivation of time, we tend to type faster than we think. Add to that the terseness of internet and email conversation which tends to come across as abrupt, and the fact that for many English is not their first language can lead to miscommunication. So it's important that we all give each other some leeway.

We must also recognize that Bill and the moderators can see a much bigger picture as to what's happening. I believe their intent is to be fair. If I thought otherwise, I would go elsewhere.

[ROMANWKT]

Hi all I have been away for a week working and bang here we go again.
Those that feel that Bill is laying down the law, are missing the point.
Those that know, do not need to have the point mentioned.
The points are being mentioned because people are not getting the point , and that no point ever has been placed on people who understand that there are no rules and no rules were ever placed by Bill Ryan ever, I have never had any rules placed on me by bill, He never had to because I am not missing the point, if i have seen rules and regulations here, is because you am missing the point.
This is a self regulating forum, once you understand the point.
When people have to have thing pointed out to them, then they need to see what is pointed at them and for what reason. One either is or is isn't. you all have an opportunity to be here.

I have been following Bill and Kerry for many years now, and I still follow them both daily, I have never had bill or kerry lay the law down, or any such thing ever, it is an unnecessary and unmentionable effort by them, when people get the point.

We all class ourselves as being awake here, so why are there so many that have missed the point. check exactly what we feel we are awake about yet, miss the point of Integrity.

as penance I will ask you all who are missing the point, or believe that are missing the point to read my humble offering to you the bright brains out of control. https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...onsense-part-1

As always my regards to all
roman

[jorr lundstrom]

Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper

[jjl]

Jorr-wish I could answer you. I only know about my own experience with someone else. Why don't you corner a mod and ask? Wish I could help. All I can say is from my perspective, they must have had their reasons. Again sorry your friend isnt here. But at least you can find him on Nexus. When Lee B was kicked off, I never saw him again.