Cheating

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
Instead of "until death do us part" I would prefer "until our journey together has ended". And sometimes the journey will last forever.
Cheating is wrong only because it's dishonest. Lies hurt.
If a relationship is not working anymore, the bond should be broken, but not by cheating nor walking away and breaking the other person's heart. The issue should be discussed, understood, and the bond should be broken in a loving ritual of appreciation for all that was shared with the other person. This may be difficult to accomplish, but it is possible. I attended a ritual at the end of a marriage, and it was beautifully moving. They are now very good friends.

I agree.
If you can't act with honour, then what worth do you have for anyone?

[leemadison11]

Down on health, looking old and having a boring lifestyle doesn't mean that being in relationship sucks, but that now both have found such partners who accept the person the way he or she is. It has nothing to do with lifestyle and looks.

[pharoah21]

The reason I wrote this thread from the start was because I had quite a traumatic break up recently. The first week was an incredibly difficult time for me, but by the 2nd week, I began to fly again. I found myself to be happier than I ever was in this relationship, and I just couldn't understand why. My first reaction was to question whether or not the whole soul mate thing really existed. I decided it didn't. But I've kept thinking, recalling, analysing my relationship with this person. I have only just started to realise how incredibly difficult this person could be to deal with. Always suspecting me of cheating, having to constantly be on my best behaviour to avoid any emotional tantrums, and constantly walking on egg shells around her. This was a recipe to hurt any relationship. As rough as things have been, I feel better than ever now, I can see God orchestrating things in my life. People I haven't spoken to in years have recently just found their way back in to my life, offering love and support where it's needed. I have a new and improved mind state, I finally have vision for my life again.............and it feels good.

I do believe in soul mates. Through past life regression I know I have been with this girl many times in my previous lives, she was my reason for suicide in my last life, and this life was nearly a repeat. But I'm so glad I made it through, and I am able now to move on to greater things. See the thing is about soul mates, your best friend is one, your partner is too. They take many different forms to teach many different lessons, and you never know how long they'll be around.........but as for the stereo typical romantic lover soul mate that everybody dreams about, I guess that's something reserved for the truly evolved, only they are worthy of something so beautiful.

Thank you to everybody who shared their thoughts and opinions on this thread.

Blessings

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by pharoah21 (here)
The reason I wrote this thread from the start was because I had quite a traumatic break up recently. The first week was an incredibly difficult time for me, but by the 2nd week, I began to fly again. I found myself to be happier than I ever was in this relationship, and I just couldn't understand why. My first reaction was to question whether or not the whole soul mate thing really existed. I decided it didn't. But I've kept thinking, recalling, analysing my relationship with this person. I have only just started to realise how incredibly difficult this person could be to deal with. Always suspecting me of cheating, having to constantly be on my best behaviour to avoid any emotional tantrums, and constantly walking on egg shells around her. This was a recipe to hurt any relationship. As rough as things have been, I feel better than ever now, I can see God orchestrating things in my life. People I haven't spoken to in years have recently just found their way back in to my life, offering love and support where it's needed. I have a new and improved mind state, I finally have vision for my life again.............and it feels good.

I do believe in soul mates. Through past life regression I know I have been with this girl many times in my previous lives, she was my reason for suicide in my last life, and this life was nearly a repeat. But I'm so glad I made it through, and I am able now to move on to greater things. See the thing is about soul mates, your best friend is one, your partner is too. They take many different forms to teach many different lessons, and you never know how long they'll be around.........but as for the stereo typical romantic lover soul mate that everybody dreams about, I guess that's something reserved for the truly evolved, only they are worthy of something so beautiful.

Thank you to everybody who shared their thoughts and opinions on this thread.

Blessings

No worries masrigoldenmetalobject.
Hopefully, she will get over her limitations and move on too.
Hopefully, the short term cynicism you suffered is exactly that, short term.

[fosselovelight]

This has been a beautiful thread and i truly appreciate everyone's honesty.
I do believe however before looking externally at 'relationships' and 'blaming' or 'analysing' anyone else... we must first love ourselves UNCONDITIONALLY before we can really start learning anything ..... I have also just come out of a relationship... a true learning experience. I do not view it as 'negative' or 'positive' but simply a 'learning experience' to enable my soul's progression in this life. I had many intuitive moments during the relationship that would tell me the person i was with was not for my highest good... as this person did not love themselves and was not honest with themselves which i truly discovered towards the end of the relationship. However I did love the person and i continuously tried to assist them. I found in the end - the person's energy was draining and impacted on my own so much so that it affected how i felt about myself, my artistry , and my relationships with others.. The person's actions and behaviours became quite aggressive and physical being the reason why the relationship has now finally come to end. I also know I have been in past life with this person... in our previous past life together I have had regression memories that he had violently ended my life once before. I do not view this as positive or negative ...i am only grateful for the experience of learning. I am currently on a path of artistry and music and I have found that this experience has truly unleashed a side of me I never knew existed and has helped me with expressions and creativity! I am FREE to finally be ME again with no ROADBLOCKS!!!! I am grateful i have not allowed someone who was not for my highest good to be in my life. AS for 'cheating' and 'soul mates'........ well...........I believe UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for oneself... and being one's OWN SOULMATE should always be the main FOCUS!!!!!!...... beautiful relationships, friendships and experiences shall then always follow...

[fosselovelight]

Once you have started seeing the beauty of life, ugliness starts disappearing. If you start looking at life with joy, sadness starts disappearing. You cannot have heaven and hell together, you can only have one. It is your choice." ~ Osho

[TargeT]

Posted by fosselovelight (here)
we must first love ourselves UNCONDITIONALLY before we can really start learning anything ..... ...

This has been a big focus of mine lately, self exploration before all else.

I think the term "selfish" has negative connotation & is damaging to people, if you do not know your self, if you do not know what makes you happy, if you do not know what you want; how can you ever expect to find/fulfill/be anything to someone else?

I think this starts at child hood with naming, once a name is applied, a persona is created, you are no longer "I AM" you are now "John" which is almost a 3rd party you.. is this the creation of ego; or just a powerful tool ego uses?

[ghostrider]

something the world has lost. L O Y A L T Y ... you honor each other , better to say I want out pick a reason, then go shopping. at least you have been honest and up front. never go shopping while in a bond of honor and trust with the one person that when the whole world turns on you, that one person will stand by you no matter what. I think people just don't take the time to really get to know a person before taking steps toward bonding forever with one person... when you cheat you dis-honor yourself and then karma will come around and bite you in the @##. your gonna reap what you sow. if you cheat you'll be cheated on. I say show some character and be LOYAL.

[lisa]

Posted by nearing (here)
I am not so sure that a dog and a cat should be married to one another. There is no shame in leaving if 'beliefs' can't be reconciled.

Yeah? Should I dump my friends too?? I am like an alien compared to them.

Seriously though, I learn so much from our differences. I learn to understand the differences and walk in other people's shoes. In some ways, our differences compliment each other. In the end, if we are here to experience life and all experiences are equally valid, then it does not matter what our beliefs are.

Hubby and I have a lot in common. We both love the outdoors. We don't watch TV or sports. And even though he is not spiritual, he has amazing insights and very high integrity. He does not drink alcohol or caffeine. He has brilliant ideas and he takes fantastic pictures.

People change so much. Maybe he will wake up tomorrow and become more awake or spiritual than me. Can i keep him now?

[nearing]

Posted by lisa (here)

Posted by nearing (here)
I am not so sure that a dog and a cat should be married to one another. There is no shame in leaving if 'beliefs' can't be reconciled.

Yeah? Should I dump my friends too?? I am like an alien compared to them.

Seriously though, I learn so much from our differences. I learn to understand the differences and walk in other people's shoes. In some ways, our differences compliment each other. In the end, if we are here to experience life and all experiences are equally valid, then it does not matter what our beliefs are.

Hubby and I have a lot in common. We both love the outdoors. We don't watch TV or sports. And even though he is not spiritual, he has amazing insights and very high integrity. He does not drink alcohol or caffeine. He has brilliant ideas and he takes fantastic pictures.

People change so much. Maybe he will wake up tomorrow and become more awake or spiritual than me. Can i keep him now?

If you love him, you should definitely keep him. Marital love isn't expendable, it should be cherished! Just don't cheat on him, that will only bring both of you heartache in the long run (maybe even the short run).

And I have seen crazier things happen, so yes, he may wake up and become spiritual, for sure!

[pharoah21]

Posted by fosselovelight (here)
This has been a beautiful thread and i truly appreciate everyone's honesty.
I do believe however before looking externally at 'relationships' and 'blaming' or 'analysing' anyone else... we must first love ourselves UNCONDITIONALLY before we can really start learning anything ..... I have also just come out of a relationship... a true learning experience. I do not view it as 'negative' or 'positive' but simply a 'learning experience' to enable my soul's progression in this life. I had many intuitive moments during the relationship that would tell me the person i was with was not for my highest good... as this person did not love themselves and was not honest with themselves which i truly discovered towards the end of the relationship. However I did love the person and i continuously tried to assist them. I found in the end - the person's energy was draining and impacted on my own so much so that it affected how i felt about myself, my artistry , and my relationships with others.. The person's actions and behaviours became quite aggressive and physical being the reason why the relationship has now finally come to end. I also know I have been in past life with this person... in our previous past life together I have had regression memories that he had violently ended my life once before. I do not view this as positive or negative ...i am only grateful for the experience of learning. I am currently on a path of artistry and music and I have found that this experience has truly unleashed a side of me I never knew existed and has helped me with expressions and creativity! I am FREE to finally be ME again with no ROADBLOCKS!!!! I am grateful i have not allowed someone who was not for my highest good to be in my life. AS for 'cheating' and 'soul mates'........ well...........I believe UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for oneself... and being one's OWN SOULMATE should always be the main FOCUS!!!!!!...... beautiful relationships, friendships and experiences shall then always follow...

I agree with you completely.......one should learn to love their self, before truly learning to love another. This was my biggest downfall...........I'm glad things are going well for you, and you are free to spread your wings. All the best to you

[pharoah21]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
something the world has lost. L O Y A L T Y ... you honor each other , better to say I want out pick a reason, then go shopping. at least you have been honest and up front. never go shopping while in a bond of honor and trust with the one person that when the whole world turns on you, that one person will stand by you no matter what. I think people just don't take the time to really get to know a person before taking steps toward bonding forever with one person... when you cheat you dis-honor yourself and then karma will come around and bite you in the @##. your gonna reap what you sow. if you cheat you'll be cheated on. I say show some character and be LOYAL.

I was loyal as can be to this girl, there were numerous times where she had done some nasty things to me, but I always quickly forgave her, my love did reign supreme for her. But my problem was that I didn't love myself enough, so I started to dwindle, and become spiritually dishevelled. Still to this day I wish there was some form of loyalty between us, at least to say, I did love you, so let's at least work things out like adults so we can move on with our lives...........but I guess we can't have everything, closure is a privilege.

[TargeT]

Posted by fosselovelight (here)
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for oneself... and being one's OWN SOULMATE should always be the main FOCUS!!!!!!...... beautiful relationships, friendships and experiences shall then always follow...

This topic has become a focus in my life again (obviously I need to learn a lesson here).


I'm SUPER HESITANTLY re-assessing my definition of relationships, sex, intimacy and possessive feelings because I'm "forced" (ok, not really) to due to my partner having her **** together more than me and being at a better place with herself than I am with myself (oh and she cheated on me, though of course it's far more complex than those few words and saying it that way is probably me just letting a bit of resentment out).

Why do I feel so strongly about someone being happy with someone else AND with me, it's like a physical reaction; like I have an ulcer or someone injects me with anxiety when the thoughts come up... but we weren't virgins when we met, why is it different now?

I think it's mostly because we had an unhealthy relationship at some point where I set myself up for failure in a few ways, I provided everything for a long time (she is certainly contributing now) and when I think back on it I may have been setting up a financial dependency so I felt more permission to "be me" and be less of what she wanted me to be (in the beginning she was very co-dependent (which I thought was very unhealthy, very judgy on my part) and always fawning over me adoring me, I didn't return the same level of attention and I'm sure that's how this all started off). I had different thoughts on topics like drug use etc that I didn't fully respect her on and we clashed over, but I thought it wasn't really a big deal so I didn't understand the reaction to the topic (haha, funny how THAT came back to bite me).

She said that she was very angry at me for a long time because I wasn't fulfilling her expectations until she came to the realization that I was just being me, not doing things to intentionally hurt her; and she could fill those needs with someone else and not have to pressure me for those needs. This makes sense, and I allowed a "friend ship" to progress to "wildly inappropriate levels" (my label) to the point that I knew she was emotionally fulfilling parts of her elsewhere; and we even talked about having open relationships (I was vehemently against, as I've had issues in the past that I haven't worked through fully) and she was just realizing (I think) what her naturally flirtatious nature meant (something I always was at least minorly annoyed by for reasons already stated). She says she was just being selfish and looking for a solution to what she felt was lacking in our relationship; to her this was the perfect fix, to her it wasn't a big deal, to her it was a fix to our relationship and she did not know how badly she would hurt me.

Anyway, we are both trying to set the past aside and work things out, I'm still very hurt by the "cheating" (lying really) but why? She says she'll try to work with me but cannot promise anything for the future (which, omg is so honest!) and I strongly feel that if I stay with her it won't be just us in the future.. and maybe it shouldn't be, who am I to stop her from what makes her happy? Hell maybe I'd like to have an open relationship(?). Or I could still just be processing hurt and seeing things the worst way possible according to my current perspective (thanks brain!).

I recently said there's no way we could be in a relationship in the future with her continuing to have outside partners, but why? If she can be happy with me and someone else, why am I stopping her? Jealousy certainly (fear), a sense of in-adequateness and self loathing that I-wasn't-good-enough (basically insecurities, which are MY issue, not hers... still working through these feelings).

Even though we got to this point with her hurting me, I think it was just an inflection point in our relationship, I need to accept her for what she is right now; or not be with her.

Logically monogamy makes zero sense, I've had the drive to be sexually promiscuous all my life (a drive I've SAVAGELY contained all my life) so why now that I'm interacting with someone else with a similar mind set am I so hurt/betrayed feeling (more of my own personal baggage i'm sure)? Probably doesn't help that she's very attractive and I've maybe always felt like i got too lucky with her and insecurity bla bla blah..

I don't socially interact with many people, I have no one to talk to that I feel comfortable on this topic (INSANE how much pride comes into this, how embarrassed I am about what almost no-one knows). So thank you random internet people I've only met a few of you IRL so this feels safer.

We both think we have an awesome opportunity here, that this situation has re-focused our relationship, but I still have heavy trepidation's that the future will mostly likely include something I'm not sure I'm ready for; but we are only 4 days into this, so I don't see how clearly I can be thinking on the topic.

[Valerie Villars]

Target as simplistic as this sounds, you have to make yourself happy. And you have a lot of sorting out to do. It doesn't have to come now or tomorrow or the next day, but you do have to sort it out.

One thing comes to mind. Monogamy makes sense when you consider all the messy things that can happen when you start screwing around. You can get an STD, or father a child with a stranger for instance.

When I was younger and not in a relationship, I screwed around as much as the next person, so I'm no angel.

I asked one man, who I know quite well and who is my age and who had a prodigious sexual appetite well into his late forties, what had changed in him, i.e. he no longer felt it was the end all be all. His reply was "I grew up."

You have a lot of thinking ahead of you but ultimately you need to be happy with yourself before you can be happy by yourself or with someone else.

[Helene West]

Sorry to hear of your angst, Target. I haven't cheated and I don't know if my hubby ever cheated on me and - I don't want to know.

Ten years ago our close friends with 2 adolescent kids filed for divorce. (the husband was the cheater in this case and the 14 yr old girl went with the mother and the 16 yrs old boy went with the father. So they became visitors to the home of the other parent until they were old enough to leave. But almost immediately the man had a new baby with the new love and I know the adolescent kids resented all the attention the baby got and were conflicted. After all aren't you a s**t if you resent a baby?)

When the above first occurred hubby and I were discussing it and I said to him short and sweet, "NEVER CONFESS". To me it's not just about 'forgiveness'. It's about the permanence of imagery. You will not get the image of your spouse screwing another person out of your mind. Some of the sting will go away after the years i'm sure but it will never be erased. "Spare me the imagery" is what I say!

We sometimes forget that we make vows not just to the other person but to the marriage as well. You're making vows to a tradition and institution. It's a slightly different way of seeing things and takes some of the highly charged personalness out of it when you remember you vowed to a lifestyle/tradition as well as to him or her. For those who adhere to one of the organized religions, I think this is easier as you're also making vows before God or a divine power that one believes in.

But what about the 'honesty' angle? Sometimes honesty can be a dagger. What if a baby or a young teenage girl are homely? Are you going to mention it to the parent or the girl? If one just can't/won't adhere to the vow (or code) one took, then get your rocks off being very mindful of diseases and pregnancy and be done with it as soon as possible and do not selfishly burden the spouse with your confession and clean up all clues.

I was lucky to have some deep conversations before marriage with my hubby. We both agreed that the foundation of our marriage would be kindness, not love which I consider ever-changing but kindness which I consider never-changing, and that the home was a place of refuge from the outside world where we could relax. My guess is your somewhere in your '40s. Between now and death how do you want to live? Do you want to grow old with her? Open marriage and multiple relationships are asking to be alone in old age to my way of thinking.

You're very smart and probably have a tendency to try and figure everything out yourself but why not even for a brief period speak to someone 'professional' just to prevent some of your conversations with your spouse from becoming a psychoanalysis session which probably won't help. I hope you come to have some peace very soon.

[Hym]

What another insightful, honest and powerful thread this is. I've never cheated, so I never looked at the thread, until I looked at the Newest Posts and read on.

I applaud your introspection and honesty, Target, for it is full of self-empowerment and growth. Your writing itself shows a high level of the soul searching that gives strength of character and affords the distance to really see what we do in our relationships, things almost impossible to see when we are so close. Distance, both naturally, physically, meditatively, consciously is important in the gift of relationships but it may be one of those attributes we only receive in the times we pass thru.

Crafting the openness of honoring your own desires and those of your intimates is a key to enjoying both, and living with the security of acceptance and acknowledgement that nurture us all. Not honoring that "savage" containment to be sexually active and emotionally engaged (and I do not defer to the common adage that men are not so..) with other women, while committed to the one you are with, is in itself an honorable thing for her, but it is also unnatural not to have faced it head on, something I can only say I've learned over the years, my moral character having very little to do with it.

You get no criticism from me on your path, as you have honored another by suppressing something you knew was no where near as valuable as the time you two spend together. I look back on the time I spent with my wife, and I know that I should have left her for about 10 years then come back to see if her deep need to explore relationships with other men was over by then. Me being hurt by her dating other men, just a few years in to US was a lack of understanding her needs as a whole person. But how could I have seen that so early on?

If I had the very early adult habit of going deeper into the discovery that the soul gets when taking every relationship right to the core of it's needs, then maybe I could have foreseen it all and prevented the pain, but who does that when we are so young? And even I, moral to a tee, could not have seen that there is a deeper morality, bound in service to others, that can only be found when we grow thru the richness of all the intensity that love brings with it. Introspection is good, even healthy, but allowing the self-criticism to go too deep sometimes doesn't solve a thing.

When I got over it and understood, I left her. Later on, when she chose to look me up, as did others, I saw that she had honored both of her desires to live her way honestly, especially with herself. Whatever self-imposed demons she embraced later on, those that eventually took her life, I see as a deeper indoctrination that her friends, her parents and a large part of a society drifting in a sea of loneliness, accepted as the only way out of the pain she thought she could not fight. Her problem was thinking that a moral man could solve anything that she could not solve herself, this the one vital thing we alone owe ourselves.

From one man to another I must say that it is a rarity for many others to hear this, but for me and all of my close friends, it is the norm. Strangers talk to me this way and I think that it is only because I've lived as a friend looking at the world thru their lives, and in listening I hear them come to conclusions, their solutions not mine, that always seem correct for them and for those in their lives.

Cudos, Brother.
Hym

[Bill Ryan]

An interesting human story, tiny and yet major, that connects with this thread.

Someone I know once found another woman's panties in her and her husband's clothes drawers.

She never mentioned it to him, ever.

Her view was that there was nothing to gain, and everything to lose. They'd been married for a long time, and she didn't want to risk upsetting what she felt was the practical stability of their relationship.

[Hym]

I was about to respond to Lisa's post, #109 above, when I realized it was made ages ago, on Nov.30th of 2011. I wonder what has happened since then, staying with that husband, "even though he is/was not so spiritual", despite the fact that she saw him as having "amazing insights" and who has "very high integrity", things I consider the qualities of a very spiritual person. I hope she listened to herself, because she has answered herself in many ways, to the affirmative.

I do have an objection to the inclusion of "not drinking alcohol or caffeine", which sounds like a 'jack mormon'* reference, as spiritual attributes, since I have friends who do both, and more to boot. The depth and openness of their honesty and introspection, as well as backing it all up with positive, supportive, self-sacrificing actions for others qualifies them as amongst the most spiritually responsive souls I have ever met. Maybe Lisa's views have changed or evolved over the years....only Lisa and her Hubby can tell.


*A 'jack mormon" is a reference to those who drink alcohol and caffeinated drinks in a religion that prohibits both. In this sense one 'jacked up', stimulated, by caffeine or whose system is depressed by drinking the whiskey brand called 'Jack Daniels'.

[TargeT]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Target as simplistic as this sounds, you have to make yourself happy.

I guess right now I'm just trying to figure out what the root cause of my feelings are, I'm being made unhappy by what, a social constraint on "how relationships are suppose to be"?

We are both older and she doesn't want to screw around, she wants to be polyamourus (have multiple loves, not just sex partners; and I was ok with this to a point, but sex pushed me over the edge beyond acceptance (and the fact that it was lied about)) so I don't think there's much "messy" stuff that would come along with this; though it is always a consideration I suppose (her tubes are tied as well so the preggo thing isn't a concern).

I also don't necessarily think a sex drive is something that is "grown up" out of; maybe the behavior you attach to it can mature but I'm having difficulty assigning morality to sex drive (when expressed in a healthy manor). But then I also don't think the sex drive is the MAIN focus at all here, more of an issue that I am focusing on because of my possessiveness and hurt over being lied to.

When she was first exploring these feelings she briefly wanted to try being a Dominatrix (we hang out with some VERY interesting people down here... and one of them sort of got her thinking about this). She's since decided that's not her thing, but I think being a more sexual/intimate person IS her thing; and I can't help but think I should be celebrating that not berating it.

Posted by Helene West (here)
Sorry to hear of your angst, Target. I haven't cheated and I don't know if my hubby ever cheated on me and - I don't want to know.

I don't think this is as simple as just a "slip" of infidelity; I think she has come to a major decision in her life that this is how she will be happy (Polyamorism)

Polyamory (from Greek πολύ poly, "many, several", and Latin amor, "love") is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships with more than one partner, with the knowledge of all partners involved.[1][2] It has been described as "consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy." [3][4][5] People who identify as polyamorous reject the view that sexual and relational exclusivity are necessary for deep, committed, long-term loving relationships.[6]

Polyamory has come to be an umbrella term for various forms of non-monogamous, multi-partner relationships (including polyamory) or non-exclusive sexual or romantic relationships,[7][8][9] reflecting the choices and philosophies of the individuals involved, but with recurring themes or values, such as love, intimacy, honesty, integrity, equality, communication, and commitment.

Posted by Helene West (here)
You will not get the image of your spouse screwing another person out of your mind.

Oh I'm fighting this battle as we speak, lovely how my brain brings these things up at the strangest moments... but I still want to know WHY it matters so much now? She had 5 kids when I met her, obviously not a virgin; why do I care so much that she might find happiness in bed with me and someone else at times?

She said nothing needs to change in our relationship if she could continue to fulfill needs I don't meet out side of us; I said I'd rather try and meet her needs myself so we are trying that now.

Posted by Helene West (here)
We sometimes forget that we make vows not just to the other person but to the marriage as well. You're making vows to a tradition and institution. It's a slightly different way of seeing things and takes some of the highly charged personalness out of it when you remember you vowed to a lifestyle/tradition as well as to him or her. For those who adhere to one of the organized religions, I think this is easier as you're also making vows before God or a divine power that one believes in.

I don't know that this is a good line of reasoning, doing things because they've been done? What is a vow or a promise? doesn't that indicate we stay static? I know I've changed, how can I expect my partner to not change as well?

Posted by Helene West (here)
But what about the 'honesty' angle? Sometimes honesty can be a dagger.

The conversations we've had haven't been comfortable, but I think we both feel better that we both feel like we can be more honest now... I guess I'd always rather know than not know, hell I've got "knowledge is power" tattoo'd on my arm

Posted by Helene West (here)
I was lucky to have some deep conversations before marriage with my hubby. We both agreed that the foundation of our marriage would be kindness, not love which I consider ever-changing but kindness which I consider never-changing, and that the home was a place of refuge from the outside world where we could relax.

I think that's a great philosophy, might steal that

Posted by Helene West (here)
My guess is your somewhere in your '40s. Between now and death how do you want to live? Do you want to grow old with her? Open marriage and multiple relationships are asking to be alone in old age to my way of thinking.

I'm 38 for a bit longer

I don't think Polyamor is quite like what your thinking; think less sleazy 1980's bar **** and more egalitarian self aware decision making. I could see us growing old together (I want to, but I maybe not as realistic as she is, how can I promise what I'll be in 10 years, or even 2??), we both are pretty out of the box people; I am afraid that she would choose someone over me, but that's me thinking in relational monogamous terms.. not polyamorous terms. I'm trying to shift my thinking to include her approach, I guess because I DO want to stay with her and I DO want her to be happy. She's blessed with an amazing body and why shouldn't she go out and enjoy herself while she's still in her sexual prime. Do I want her to stay with me and resent that I have conditions on it (conditions that make little logical sense)? I don't own her & I don't want her to feel like I do.

Posted by Helene West (here)
You're very smart and probably have a tendency to try and figure everything out yourself but why not even for a brief period speak to someone 'professional' just to prevent some of your conversations with your spouse from becoming a psychoanalysis session which probably won't help. I hope you come to have some peace very soon.

Seems like if I went to a professional all I would receive is psychoanalysis ? Our conversations are difficult but us being honest with each-other and working through this together I think is more important and not something we cannot handle on our own; but thanks for the suggestion.

I'm really just venting here so I can work through the process more, because I think I'm the one who needs to do the most work on this topic; at least currently.

This incident of infidelity is a symptom of selfishness on her part and me not being emotionally available for her (obviously it's a bit more complex than that, but that is a decent short summary).

Posted by Hym (here)
You get no criticism from me on your path, as you have honored another by suppressing something you knew was no where near as valuable as the time you two spend together.

I think this is a lot of my hurt, but I haven't communicated that to her well, in fact the tone of these posts is NOT how I am speaking to her currently... I'm deathly afraid of saying anything positive about polyamorous behavior just yet.. it's too fresh and I have too much anger with her currently... But I do think it's something that I need to fully explore so that if nothing else I can confidantly say I like or do not like it.

Thanks for the insight.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
An interesting human story, tiny and yet major, that connects with this thread.

Someone I know once found another woman's panties in her and her husband's clothes drawers.

She never mentioned it to him, ever.

Her view was that there was nothing to gain, and everything to lose. They'd been married for a long time, and she didn't want to risk upsetting what she felt was the practical stability of their relationship.

I wonder if there is nothing to gain, or maybe there's a lot to gain?

Well I'm going to try and find out; both myself and my wife have this new addiction: personal challenge.

If I'm afraid of something or something is uncomfortable that's EXACTLY where I need to go and sit in that space and find out why, or over come it. I think I'd always rather know, than not know.

[Helene West]

If before you married her, if I had been your friend and you told me you were considering marrying a female with 5 kids from another guy/s and who was considering being a dominatrix I would have shaken you and said, 'don't do it..!!!" It would have seemed so masochistic for a guy to do so.

Not everything is a 'marriage' issue. There are 'character' issues as well. To me you sound more influenced by her than her by you. Are there minors still living at home? That makes a difference as well in my book.

You said,
"... but I think being a more sexual/intimate person IS her thing; and I can't help but think I should be celebrating that not berating it..."
Celebrate that she wants to be with several men? sounds new agey brainwashing to me...

You said,
"... She's blessed with an amazing body and why shouldn't she go out and enjoy herself while she's still in her sexual prime. Do I want her to stay with me and resent that I have conditions on it (conditions that make little logical sense)? I don't own her & I don't want her to feel like I do..."

So every guy that gets married who has ripped abs should forego his vows because he has an "amazing" body and should not be wasting it on monogomy but be showing it off to other females to hook up otherwise it's a waste? Every female with nice boobs shouldn't bother taking vows because it would be a waste to just be dedicated to one man seeing them?

She'll screw around for adulation of her 'amazing' body until she starts hitting her late '40s when her bod will start changing. Then life will give her a wake-up call and she'll panic and be more susceptible to monogamy only because there won't be as many takers. Will 'ole Target be waiting in the wings for her to finish her narcissistic adventures and hope she will finally love and cherish him?

I'll shut up now and be on my way as I'm not identifying with much of yours or her way of thinking and I will come across sounding negative when I had wanted initially to sound supportive. I wish you the very best.