The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

[greybeard]

I would like to be clear.
Im still not against Brexit or for it.
However I do now have a position.
I do not trust Boris---I suspect there is an agenda even bigger than Brexit that most, including my self, are unaware of.
All the respected long term members of the Tory party have had their influence taken away, degraded --Why?
They stand against an extreme right wing leadership that claims they are for the people and against all that has been already mentioned in previous post.
Parliament in its wisdom--rejected terrible deals that would have ruined UK--they got castigated for this in the Right Wing press.
The last part is an opinion--so a maybe so.
However the lies that have been told are now being exposed--that is fact not an opinion.
If something is for the good of the UK then there is no need to lie.

Chris

[Longjohn]

British diplomat in US resigns, saying she can't 'peddle half-truths' on Brexit

From The Guardian, 6th December 2019:

The British diplomat in charge of explaining Brexit to the US government, Congress and public, has resigned, saying she was no longer prepared to “peddle half-truths on behalf of a government I do not trust”.

“I have been increasingly dismayed by the way in which our political leaders have tried to deliver Brexit, with reluctance to address honestly, even with our own citizens, the challenges and trade-offs which Brexit involves; the use of misleading or disingenuous arguments about the implications of the various options before us; and some behaviour towards our institutions, which, were it happening in another country, we would almost certainly as diplomats have received instructions to register our concern,” Hall Hall wrote in the letter, dated 3 December.

“It makes our job to promote democracy and the rule of law that much harder, if we are not seen to be upholding these core values at home,” Hall Hall said.

Daniel Fried, a former US assistant secretary of state for Europe, said this:

“Ambassador Hall Hall is known to her US colleagues, myself included, as a person of integrity and insight. I cannot comment on the specifics of her charges, but she is a credible and serious person and as such her words carry weight.”

On the other hand, Nile Gardiner, director for the Margaret Thatcher Centre for Freedom at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, responded:

“It is very, very disappointing to see a British diplomat not implementing the official policy of their government. Diplomats should not be giving their own interpretation of information provided by their own government”

LJ: This statement from Gardiner completely ignores the fact that the diplomat had resigned and was thereby entitled to express her views in her resignation letter!

Cheers, LJ

[Matthew]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
WE DID IT!! But this is just the start - The David Icke Videocast/Podcast trailer

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cW6WsvZal2Y

Published on 24 Jun 2016


WE DID IT!! But this is just the start - The David Icke Videocast/Podcast trailer
All David's Books Now Available Here http://www.DavidIckeStore.com

Here's a flashback to 2016.

[greybeard]

David Icke discusses theories and politics with Eamonn Holmes

David Icke joins Eamonn in the studio to discuss his alternative theories. Under the microscope is fake news, mass surveillance, 5G, AI, climate change, US and UK politics - and, of course - Brexit.

"It was always going to go pear-shaped. It's been an alliance between the political class in Britain and the bureaucrats in Brussels to trash Brexit."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GaUKOQ4rsdQ

[greybeard]

I cant help but think Boris going to loose his seat and he know it.
He has not been to the hustings in the area for which he is currently the MP.
What then?
Chris

[greybeard]

This isn’t the unpredictable election we all want it to be – the Tories have already won
The Independent Sean O'Grady,The Independent


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/isn-t-unpr...120044460.html

It is often remarked that generals, the bad ones at any rate, always tend to fight the last war. And then, of course, lose.

I wonder if we – the journalists, the voters, even the politicians – are making the same mistake with the British general election of 2019.

Ever since the get-go, and even now, the word you most often hear (apart from Brexit) about this contest is “unpredictable”. We’re still told that this is the most unpredictable election in years; that anything could happen; the public is volatile and undecided; there will be some wave of tactical voting to transform things; or a wave of tactical campaigning to do the same; or a “youth quake” is going to seep away our complacent assumptions; that aggressive micro-targeted modern cyber election techniques will transform the parties’ marketing; and, of course, that the polls are all wrong and anyway, a 2017-style Corbyn surge is just around the corner.

Even if any of those things were ever true, or were ever going to be true, they are not true now. It is not 2017 all over again. We are going to get a Tory landslide. Or leastways a very decent majority, large enough for Boris Johnson to disregard not only the opposition parties, but also the nutters in the European Research Group and any vestigial stirrings of pro-Remain, anti-no deal sentiment that somehow escaped his purge of the candidates’ list.

At the start of this campaign, Johnson and the Conservatives had a roughly 10-point lead over the Labour party, and the position has held, with some squeeze on the Farageists and the Lib Dems, bar a few wibbles and wobbles, ever since. We might as well have called off all the tedious “make-or-break” leaders’ debates and photo stunts and fact-checking and just put our feet up. I’m a Celeb was more volatile and unpredictable.

It has been remarkably predictable in fact – or, more accurately, the unpredictable things about the year 2019 was how boringly predictable it has been. Things are not, as of today, “tight”, as Laura Kuenssberg says they are. I don’t know why she says this, given all the data, but there we are.

The Tories, true enough, agree it is touch and go, but that is not because they fear not being the largest party or winning a working majority. What is touch and go is the Johnson landslide – the thing he most prizes but dare not speak of.

In other words, the Conservatives want to scare people, especially Brexit Party voters and Labour Leavers, into giving them a landslide – a 100 plus majority. Labour also talks up how easily they could deprive the Tories of their majority (like in 2017), for similar reasons – to gather momentum. The Lib Dems try to make out they are still on track to hold the balance of power, as they fantasised when Jo Swinson made her historic blunder of granting Johnson his early election.

The more we look at it, the more the 2017 contest was sui generis, a reflection of Theresa May’s extraordinarily poor campaign, and we are now witnessing a reversion to an older norm. Almost every election since the Second World War has been characterised by two things: that the polls hardly shift during the campaign and, closely connected, that all the noise and tumult is mere background. People make their minds up years before.

The truth, I suppose, is that we have been in a virtual non-stop election campaign ever since the inconclusive 2017 poll. The voters are well aware of the personalities and arguments. Johnson and Sturgeon have been around for years and we are familiar with them; Corbyn is no longer this slightly startling man of principle, as the more we have come to know him the dodgier some of his views have become. Swinson, meantime, has pulled off the remarkable trick of growing less impressive the more the public see of her, whereas Sturgeon, Angela Rayner, Caroline Lucas and Rebecca Long-Bailey have been stars in a lacklustre scene.

Most people in this country can barely remember a Tory government with a parliamentary majority big enough for them to do whatever they liked. Many were not even born. It was last seen at the 1987 election, when Margaret Thatcher won her third contest with a majority of 102. I predict the same this time, even given all the social changes over the past 30 years. In which case, you should get used to the idea of a Johnson-led government of cronies and toadies.

Among other things they will; preside over a protracted post-Brexit recession; a collapse in sterling; starve local services and the welfare state of funding when the comprehensive spending review comes round; fail to conclude a trade deal with the EU in time; fail to negotiate an advantageous trade deal with anyone else including (especially) Trump’s protectionist America by 2024; dismantle the constitutional checks and balances supplied by the Commons and the courts, as per page 48 of the Tory manifesto; shut down Channel 4; neuter the BBC; cut taxes for the rich; pack the House of Lords with more Tories and appoint placemen and placewomen to top jobs in the civil service, diplomatic corps, Bank of England and quangos; privatise anything not specifically ruled out by their manifesto.

It is not, then, only the election campaign that is quite stunningly predictable and an easy win for the Tories; but the course of the next five years of the Johnson administration as well. It feels, for those of us who lived through it, every much like the 1980s – a divided centre-left opposition facing a determined Tory PM, who uses their powers as if an elected dictator. You have been warned.

I have highlighted the last part.
May or not be true but worth a thought.
Chris

[East Sun]

Nice to see David Icke smiling. It's been a tough road he had to follow and is still following.
Proven right once again. I have always been a fan and am not the "fan" type of person.

I'm so glad that Britton has taken a giant step away from the EU and continues on this
road to the end. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

Inspiration for others is what I love to see.

[greybeard]

Scotland would back independence if Brexit happens, poll indicates
PA Media: UK News By Laura Paterson, PA Scotland,PA Media: UK News


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/scotland-b...090308330.html

Scotland would vote in favour of independence if Brexit goes ahead, a new poll suggests, but a majority would vote no to leaving the UK if it remains within the EU.

The Panelbase poll for The Sunday Times surveyed 1,020 voters in Scotland between December 3 and 6.

It found a majority, 51%, would back independence if the UK leaves the EU, while 49% would vote against it.

However, if the UK remains in the EU, a majority said they are against Scottish independence at 58%, with 42% in favour.

In general, support for independence has fallen, down 2% since November to 47% while support for Scotland saying in the UK has risen by the same amount to 53%.

The poll results were published as Scottish Conservative leader Jackson Carlaw urged Scots to vote Tory to put plans for a second independence referendum “in cold storage for good”.

He urged unionist Scots to band together to stop a second independence referendum.

But SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon said Scottish voters should “aim higher” than Boris Johnson and Brexit when voting in the General Election on Thursday.

She said a vote for her party would “put Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands”.

Ahead of campaigning on Sunday, Mr Carlaw said: “Two years ago, three-quarters-of-a-million Scots gave their vote to the Scottish Conservatives to stop the SNP’s divisive second independence referendum.

“By acting together, they won. They toppled nationalist MPs off their perch, and forced Nicola Sturgeon to put her indyref2 plans on ice.

“This week, we need those 750,000 people to come together once more and tell her again.

“As more pro-union voters join them in backing the Scottish Conservatives during this campaign, this time we can put that referendum in the cold storage for good.

“Pro-UK voters need to act as one. Jeremy Corbyn won’t stop her, only the Scottish Conservatives will do so.”

Ms Sturgeon said the “very future” of Scotland is at stake in the election.

She said: “Scotland cannot afford to live under more Westminster chaos for years and potentially decades – and we certainly cannot afford five years of Boris Johnson.

“The people of Scotland can do better than Boris and Brexit – and on Thursday we should aim higher.

“This Thursday people in Scotland have an opportunity to unite and demand the right to choose a better future as an independent country – where we always get the governments we vote for and where we have the powers we need to make Scotland the best it can be.

“So I am asking Scotland to unite behind the SNP this Thursday – to escape Brexit, protect the NHS and to put Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands – not Boris Johnson’s.”

[greybeard]

Boris Johnson insults the 3.6m EU citizens who have made the UK their home
The Guardian Letters,The Guardian

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-john...155426326.html


Boris Johnson thinks I have been able to treat the UK as if it is part of my own country for too long. My own country – that would be Germany which I left 26 years ago. I came as what he now calls an “unskilled migrant”, attracted by a love for British literature, culture and its university system.

We are part of the 3.6 million EU citizens and the 1.2 million UK citizens who freely moved around the UK and Europe.

If Mr Johnson suggests EU migrants in the UK are outstaying their welcome, then he must also apply that to the 1.2 million British citizens living in the EU. Both groups moved around the UK and Europe, curious to discover other countries, meeting and marrying people from a different nation, settling with their loved ones in a new home.

We did not invade our new home countries, we had to fulfil certain criteria upon arrival to make sure we did not become a burden. Freedom of movement rules are not carte blanche for immigration but allow all EU citizens, including the British, to move to another country and get work within three months of their stay.

Freedom of movement rights do not mean uncontrolled immigration, do not mean putting pressure on healthcare and housing by people who haven’t paid in. This is a lie now peddled by the Tory party, desperate to win an election and not caring whether this means wrecking the country I call my home.

The UK chose not to invest in a system to register newcomers, it chose to create a nasty bureaucracy instead, the hostile environment that has such a devastating effect on any immigrant who can’t prove their right to be in the UK. The new settled status application system is based on a platform of anti-immigration rhetoric, no matter how many times the Home Office protests otherwise. It could have been made a simple registration, giving the automatic rights that were promised and truly protecting EU citizens.

Just a few weeks ago, EU migrants were Mr Johnson’s “friends, family and neighbours”, praised for their contribution. Now the tone has changed to an anti-immigration dog whistle from a prime minister blaming migrants for homegrown problems. He should know better – the government’s own report on the positive impact of immigrants contradicts his statements.

But truth doesn’t matter any more in British politics. And this is something we should all be very afraid of. EU immigrants are the latest scapegoats in an election that demonises others to gloss over the Tory party’s own failure to create a prosperous and more equal society.

For most migrants working, studying and raising families in the UK, home is here and we are here to stay.
Maike Bohn
Co-founder, the3million

[Longjohn]

Boris's Election Bus:

Make sure you vote for Boris tomorrow so he can finish himself off at the bottom of the cliff!

Courtesy of Steve Bell, The Guardian, 11th December 2019

[Phoenix1304]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Longjohn (here)
@Phoenix,

I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!

I have to say I warmed to Corbyn --he is for the vunerable--genuinely cares I would say.
Better PM material than Boris I would say--but can we afford either of them?
Chris

For me he radiates integrity, like I said, a feeling I rarely get from politicians, whether his ideology is naive or not is difficult to know as every attempt at egalitarian society, i.e.Cuba is sabotaged by sanctions and dirty tricks by the big player imperialists.

As for affording them, the economy is this great mystery eh? May coined the phrase ‘there’s no magic money tree’ but promptly found 2 billion to bribe the DUP to give her the last win. It’s more about how the government gets it and distributes it - it can’t be good for business for Corbyn to stop arms sales to Saudis so they can bomb Yemen, but it’s gotta be good for the country’s soul.

I’m amazed at the impact of social media on the whole thing this time, they’re all using it. I was glad to see Corbyn countered the Tory ‘Love Actually’ vid with one of his own. Sitting by the fireside he did a ‘ Mean Tweets’ vid that was quite amusing and answered one tweet that asked ‘where is the magic money tree?’ by looking at camera and saying ‘the Cayman Islands’. It wasn’t lost on me. Did you see these vids? Sorry, I haven’t got nearly enough savvy to lift those off Twitter and post here. Hugh Grant tweeted about the Tory one saying it had good production values and must have cost a lot, then said ‘I guess that’s where all the roubles went.’ Glad to see he’s onside to get rid of the Bullingdon boys.

One more day and we’ll see if the Brits confound the pollsters once again and put J.C. in the driving seat.

Meanwhile, I hope you’re keeping warm and dry up there in Inverness.

Best,
Helen

[greybeard]

If its a close run thing then there is not one party that will support Boris most certainly not DUP--once bitten their quote. Not enough money to bribe them this time.

So Labour could scrape enough support together from the other parties to form a minority Government.
Chris

[araucaria]

Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Longjohn (here)
@Phoenix,

I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!

I have to say I warmed to Corbyn --he is for the vunerable--genuinely cares I would say.
Better PM material than Boris I would say--but can we afford either of them?
Chris

For me he radiates integrity,

Thank you Helen. The question then becomes: do you vote for real flesh-and-blood human beings with integrity? Or do you listen to conspiracy theories that become so enormous they are turned into satanic abstractions and give your vote to the narcissists and psychopaths who are tapping into such ideas? There certainly are things hugely wrong with the world, but the fact and doubtless the purpose of incarnation is to deal with these abstract issues in concrete, real flesh-and-blood ways and dissipate the nightmare of larger-than-life but lifeless phantoms. Boris Johnson is not for real: get real.

[Phoenix1304]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Longjohn (here)
@Phoenix,

I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!

I have to say I warmed to Corbyn --he is for the vunerable--genuinely cares I would say.
Better PM material than Boris I would say--but can we afford either of them?
Chris

For me he radiates integrity,

Thank you Helen. The question then becomes: do you vote for real flesh-and-blood human beings with integrity? Or do you listen to conspiracy theories that become so enormous they are turned into satanic abstractions and give your vote to the narcissists and psychopaths who are tapping into such ideas? There certainly are things hugely wrong with the world, but the fact and doubtless the purpose of incarnation is to deal with these abstract issues in concrete, real flesh-and-blood ways and dissipate the nightmare of larger-than-life but lifeless phantoms. Boris Johnson is not for real: get real.

Your last sentence made me question if you thought I was referring to Boris with ‘he radiates integrity’ - I most certainly was not. I will be voting for Labour (for the first time actually, since I always vote Green) in the hope of decent human beings taking over. I do realise we are up against the ‘stop at nothing’ beast, and have been for so very long...I can only pray for the good guys protection and success and that the rest of the country feels the same and are not the feckless idiots Boris’ & co. think they are. Arrogance and conceit could be their downfall. Ever hopeful.

[araucaria]

No misunderstanding : I am speaking to a wider audience. I have no vote on this beyond the odd post on this forum, where it is often said that this is a planet of choice. A metaphysical statement like that is meaningless unless and until it produces an effect in the real world. Sometimes it can boil down literally to casting a vote in an election – or sharing a thought. Either way it’s about making a real individual, and hopefully informed choice.

[Longjohn]

Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Longjohn (here)
@Phoenix,

I'm in the process of watching your video and will reply. I have a great deal of admiration for Yanis Varoufakis, so I want to see it all!

I have to say I warmed to Corbyn --he is for the vunerable--genuinely cares I would say.
Better PM material than Boris I would say--but can we afford either of them?
Chris

For me he radiates integrity,

Thank you Helen. The question then becomes: do you vote for real flesh-and-blood human beings with integrity? Or do you listen to conspiracy theories that become so enormous they are turned into satanic abstractions and give your vote to the narcissists and psychopaths who are tapping into such ideas? There certainly are things hugely wrong with the world, but the fact and doubtless the purpose of incarnation is to deal with these abstract issues in concrete, real flesh-and-blood ways and dissipate the nightmare of larger-than-life but lifeless phantoms. Boris Johnson is not for real: get real.

Your last sentence made me question if you thought I was referring to Boris with ‘he radiates integrity’ - I most certainly was not. I will be voting for Labour (for the first time actually, since I always vote Green) in the hope of decent human beings taking over. I do realise we are up against the ‘stop at nothing’ beast, and have been for so very long...I can only pray for the good guys protection and success and that the rest of the country feels the same and are not the feckless idiots Boris’ & co. think they are. Arrogance and conceit could be their downfall. Ever hopeful.

I eventually watched all of the Varoufakis-Corbyn video and much enjoyed it. I'm sorry I took time to reply, but was busy with other things!

I saw an even-handed, deep-thinking, almost apolitical aspect of Corbyn I had not encountered before. He did not spew out a string of political diatribes but came across as someone who was exceedingly well-informed on a wide range of topics as well as on the general dire state of British society.

What a contrast to Boris Johnson's juvenile inability to inform himself on anything, lest he become self-aware of his profound ignorance!

I've heard many times how Corbyn's approach to Brexit is muddle-headed and provides no solution to the debate, but it came over here as a sensible, middle-of-the road compromise that would protect British jobs and trade right across the whole spectrum of businesses.

My admiration for Varoufakis goes up a couple of notches every time I hear him. He has commanding intelligence and power of expression as well as being amazingly well-versed on the history of British socialism. He sees the negative aspects of the Brussels bureaucracy, but at the same time exhorts the British not to jump the EU ship with undue haste.

Best regards,

John

[Longjohn]

As a relevant aside, I want to mention how I first came to admire Yanis Varoufakis. It was when I read this article on his background, "Yanis Varoufakis: In his own words" which, significantly for me at the time, included this:

On worries about his elevation from university professor to politician
"I know that I run the risk of, surreptitiously... indulging a feeling of having become 'agreeable' to the circles of 'polite society'. The sense of self-satisfaction from being feted by the high and mighty did begin, on occasion, to creep up on me. And what a non-radical, ugly, corruptive and corrosive sense it was!"

And when did he first notice that "corruptive" influence?
"My personal nadir came at an airport. Some moneyed outfit had invited me to give a keynote on the European crisis and had forked out the ludicrous sum necessary to buy me a first class ticket. On my way back home, tired and already with several flights under my belt, I was making my way past the long queue of economy passengers, to get to my gate. Suddenly I noticed, with considerable horror, how easy it was for my mind to be infected with the sense that I was 'entitled' to bypass the hoi polloi. I realised how readily I could forget that which my left-wing mind had always known: that nothing succeeds in reproducing itself better than a false sense of entitlement."

It made a deep impression on me because I would often ponder how some politicians, academics and well-heeled people could display an arrogance so far in excess of their manifest talent.

When I read this article, I remember thinking to myself that at last I had found a man of renown who had the honesty and transparency to publically admit his all-too human failings.

[AutumnW]

Brexit is a wedge to establish American authority in the region, IMHO. It is unlikely that Trump will mess up trade. More likely there will be issues with trade with China and the U.S (and British elites--this is coordinated) will be happy to fill any void.

I have just been told that the U.S.could easily offer up a free trade deal predicated on privatizing the whole country, including the health care system. You know...because the super rich just don't have enough money already.

[araucaria]

This may be my last word on this matter, posted on the other thread:

Posted by araucaria (here)
The latest polls predicted a possible hung parliament with highly organized tactical voting expected to be hugely effective.
How to turn this into a Tory landslide ? Easy peasy.

You conduct exit polls in all the close constituencies, using facsimile ballot papers identical to the real thing – true, I read it yesterday, and no doubt thousands can testify to it. You then have all day to prepare to substitute real ballot papers with these forged ones – Tories get to vote twice, others not at all.

These exit polls were themselves criminal, a big No No. And a big smoking gun: there can have been no other motive behind such a massive forgery than a Con landslide. The thousands of victims need to file a complaint. But they will be seen as bad losers: it is all those dumb northerners’ fault. And for once the conspiracy theorists won’t be interested, because those losers are on the winning side.



A very slick piece of work.

[Longjohn]

After what will turn out to be a disastrous election result for Britain, I'm thinking about what I will do if I ever return to these benighted isles...

I've decided I will wait for Nicola Sturgeon to take Scotland out of the UK and reclaim my good old Scottish ancestry by moving there!