Sighting size...

[DaveToo]

I made a post just recently in another forum and Bill suggested it wasn't the best forum to make the post...

This was his reply:

"Gravity plays a critical role here, regarding body proportion. That's why mosquitoes and spiders have spindly legs, and elephants and hippos have big fat ones.

It's connected to the length/height to volume ratio. Something 2x as high/long is 8x as heavy, with the same proportions. If you enlarged a mosquito 1000x, it'd not be able to stand and would collapse and crush itself under its own weight.

Presumably, the same goes with ETs that might have two legs as we do. An intelligent creature that weighed tens or hundreds of tons (whichever planet it lived on) would need to be aquatic to support its own weight... maybe like whales."

I was commenting on the fact that most sightings for UFO's ET's are expressed in human-like proportion/sizes.

Bill's comment above makes sense for a planet that obeys Earth's gravitational laws.

But what about planets that are 100's or 1000's of times bigger than ours?

Why wouldn't they send out spaceships the size of a small city, if they had the capability to do so?
Isn't is quite the coincidence that all/almost all sightings on Earth of UFO's, ET's are of human-like size/proportions?

[Intranuclear]

Your question has a built in assumption, that humans are not connected somehow to the ETs.
Massive anecdotal evidence suggests that "they" have been here for a very very long time and may be competing with each other in the gradual hybridization or modification of the human species if not downright having created them.
It is possible that life itself could have been seeded a long time ago.

Also you are assuming that other earthly species are not encountering their own version of ETs. For example, dolphins may have something to say about this if we could easily translate their languages.

What kind of ETs did the dinosaurs witness?
Are some reptilians hybridized from that time?

As far as planets being 100's or 1000's time larger than earth, well, you are getting into star territory not planets.
Jupiter is only 11.2 times larger than earth and any larger and now it gets into failed star category.
If there is life on Jupiter for example, I doubt we would attract their attention as they would be so different from us that they would likely look for their type on other Jupiter type planets.
Jupiter's moon on the other hand are a different matter.

Lets imagine a life form on a star. What could it look like or be in order to survive such an environment. I can't imagine that our type of life would even interest them.
Of course I am speculating based on whatever knowledge I have picked up being interested in the topic for 50+ years.

I won't even venture the type of life forms existing in the vacuum of space or on black holes or neutron stars or galactic centers, or between galaxies, or galaxy size creatures as we can't even recognize them as life.
For example, if we are living inside a living universe just as our cells are living inside us, we would look for other universes.

All these topics and countless others have been explored to death in sci-fi and I'm sure we have not even begun to scratch the surface of possibilities.
A single person would need a billion trillion lifetimes to figure it all out.
Wait, I think that would be God.

[DaveToo]

Posted by Intranuclear (here)
Your question has a built in assumption, that humans are not connected somehow to the ETs.
Massive anecdotal evidence suggests that "they" have been here for a very very long time and may be competing with each other in the gradual hybridization or modification of the human species if not downright having created them.
It is possible that life itself could have been seeded a long time ago.

My questions weren't based on any specific assumptions. They are totally open-ended.
Just general questions. No assumptions of being connected to any visitors.

We view fellow humans all the time and though there is quite a variety in shape and size of fellow humans,
we never see anyone who is 20+ feet tall or who weighs 1,000+ lbs etc.
Nor do we see anyone who is five inches tall and weighs two ounces etc.

Isn't it conceivable that of all the life forms in the stars/galaxies around us (and not around us)
that some of the life forms would be much much larger or much much smaller than our human life forms?

When we get visitors (UFO's, ET's) do we get reports of any non-human experience sizes?

Also you are assuming that other earthly species are not encountering their own version of ETs. For example, dolphins may have something to say about this if we could easily translate their languages.

I am thinking about ET species visiting us.

As far as planets being 100's or 1000's time larger than earth, well, you are getting into star territory not planets.
Jupiter is only 11.2 times larger than earth and any larger and now it gets into failed star category.

Not so much the planet size, but more the size of the species inhabiting them and and possibly visiting us.

If I were to dream of ET visitors I would dream of them traveling in a spaceship the size of a small Earth city that could carry
thousand of beings. Each of those beings might be 20 or 30 feet tall and possibly weigh 10 or 20 pounds on Earth etc. etc.
Or they might be 4 or 5 inches tall (or smaller) and weigh 200 lbs each etc. etc.

All these topics and countless others have been explored to death in sci-fi and I'm sure we have not even begun to scratch the surface of possibilities.
A single person would need a billion trillion lifetimes to figure it all out.
Wait, I think that would be God.

Yes they have been explored to death, but as far as I know the depictions that we make of the visitors are always in human-experience size/form.
Maybe you could guide me to any that are totally out-of whack to our human-experience size/form?

For all we know a species that is 100 times our size might be obsessed with our relatively miniature size?

[Intranuclear]

All questions have built in assumptions,

Also I believe I addressed most of your issues.
You are making assumptions that species 100x our size would bother coming here or that it is even possible to be 100x our size and build spaceships, or that such spaceships would not vaporize earth if they attempt to land.

On the other hand If ETs 1/100 times our size (tiny) came here, how would people perceive them?
For example, at such a small size, they could be inside your body using you as a drone and you would never know.

I'm not sure I can easily demonstrate or simulate these possibilities without great effort, thus the thought exercise.

I also suggested that we are likely products of ET tampering in which case what people report are those who continue their experiments.

Also you are assuming that it is even possible to be 100x larger and still be considered as a simple scaled version of us. Even the dinosaurs were only a few times larger than us and much much less than 100x.
I cannot imagine what form a being 100x would look like so I could not recognize one if I saw it.
From the physics that I am aware of it should not be possible, but then current physics is pretty limited right?

[DaveToo]

Posted by Intranuclear (here)
All questions have built in assumptions,

Also I believe I addressed most of your issues.
You are making assumptions that species 100x our size would bother coming here or that it is even possible to be 100x our size and build spaceships, or that such spaceships would not vaporize earth if they attempt to land.

Well any and all assumptions are fair game here, are they not?
Truly I am not making any assumptions. I am trying to be open-minded.

Why assume that ET's of human-experience size/form would be the only ones interested in visiting us?
Beings many times our size or many times smaller might be extremely curious about us.

On the other hand If ETs 1/100 times our size (tiny) came here, how would people perceive them?
For example, at such a small size, they could be inside your body using you as a drone and you would never know.

True. But at 10 or 50 times our size that would be a little more difficult to do.

Also you are assuming that it is even possible to be 100x larger and still be considered as a simple scaled version of us. Even the dinosaurs were only a few times larger than us and much much less than 100x.

Again I am being totally open-minded here, with as little assumptions as possible.
Why couldn't beings on another planet, somewhere, be 100x larger than us, yet weigh the same as us or possibly be even lighter?
Why can't we think outside the box of planet earth, with all its inherent laws of physics that might not apply to other beings who have
circumvented our laws of physics?

I cannot imagine what form a being 100x would look like so I could not recognize one if I saw it.
From the physics that I am aware of it should not be possible, but then current physics is pretty limited right?

This is exactly what I am talking about.
Why haven't humans reported ET's that are way beyond our human experience in size and form?
Or if they have, where I can I read about them?
Those who have experienced them first-hand.

[DaveToo]

pluton:

"That's a bad analogy, because stars are of a natural origin, whereas spaceships are not. Also, life cannot evolve on the stars for obvious reason, so the size of the alien life doesn't depend on the size of the stars, but it can be affected by the size of those planets, which are kind to evolution."

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was not trying to give an analogy, ie. bigger stars = bigger spaceships, beings etc.
I was simply trying to point out that our sun/planet is dwarfed in size by other stars/planets.

If there is ET life outside of our world then it should stand to reason that their spaceships/beings would come in all different shapes and sizes,
not just human-like experience size.

Looking at it the other way, it would seem quite unreasonable to expect ET's who might be thousands (tens of thousand or more) years older than us to build spaceships of Earth-like aircraft proportions.


pluton:

"But you have a point in saying that we are not told about alien creatures that are likely to be much bigger than we are:

"Aliens, if they exist, are likely huge. At least that’s the conclusion of a new paper by cosmologist Fergus Simpson, who has estimated that the average weight of intelligent extraterrestrials would be 650 pounds (300 kilograms) or more. ET would have paled in comparison to these interstellar behemoths."
https://www.newsweek.com/aliens-are-...uggests-319448

Of course, there are notable extremes out there, such as the massive and now extinct Procurians who would weigh here on Earth 800 metric tons on average, and who had six legs and a set of 120 teeth. "

Thanks for that find pluton!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DaveToo (here)
But what about planets that are 100's or 1000's of times bigger than ours?

About a planet's size and its gravity, assuming the same density: (i.e. a rocky planet, not a gas giant)

• A planet 2x the diameter of Earth would have 8x the gravity. That's because gravity increases with the cube of the linear size increase, since gravity is proportional to mass, and mass is proportional to volume: i.e. the size in three dimensions, not just one.
• So as the gravity would increase with the cube of the relative size,
  — A planet 100x the diameter of Earth would have 1,000,000x Earth's gravity (100 x 100 x 100)
  — And a planet 1000x the diameter of Earth would have 1,000,000,000x earth's gravity (1000 x 1000 x 1000).

Try standing up in that.

... no matter how big and muscular and strong your legs were. Do you see the problem?

This means that any flesh-and-blood creatures evolving on a planet even a fraction of that huge size would barely be able to stand up or move. Unless

1. They had immensely strong legs and were very squat, maybe like large centipedes with the legs of an elephant, (or more likely)
2. They were somehow able to wriggle around like snakes, (or more likely still)
3. They were aquatic, with their weight supported by water (like whales, hippos, and very probably dinosaurs like the brontosaurus and diplodocus, which would probably not have been able to stand under their own weight on dry land).

And if they were in any way like that, then re space travel... forget it. It'd be impossible for them to have any industry of any kind. (Let alone have the means to lift off the planet itself!)

[pluton]

Posted by DaveToo (here)
I made a post just recently in another forum and Bill suggested it wasn't the best forum to make the post...

This was his reply:

"Gravity plays a critical role here, regarding body proportion. That's why mosquitoes and spiders have spindly legs, and elephants and hippos have big fat ones.

It's connected to the length/height to volume ratio. Something 2x as high/long is 8x as heavy, with the same proportions. If you enlarged a mosquito 1000x, it'd not be able to stand and would collapse and crush itself under its own weight.

Presumably, the same goes with ETs that might have two legs as we do. An intelligent creature that weighed tens or hundreds of tons (whichever planet it lived on) would need to be aquatic to support its own weight... maybe like whales."

I was commenting on the fact that most sightings for UFO's ET's are expressed in human-like proportion/sizes.

Bill's comment above makes sense for a planet that obeys Earth's gravitational laws.

But what about planets that are 100's or 1000's of times bigger than ours?

Why wouldn't they send out spaceships the size of a small city, if they had the capability to do so?
Isn't is quite the coincidence that all/almost all sightings on Earth of UFO's, ET's are of human-like size/proportions?

That's because the gravitational pull of planetary hypergiants are so big, that it is almost impossible to develop thrusters that would deliver a force necessary for a giant space ship to reach escape velocity.

[DaveToo]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Try standing up in that.

... no matter how big and muscular and strong your legs were. Do you see the problem?

This means that any flesh-and-blood creatures evolving on a planet even a fraction of that huge size would barely be able to stand up or move. Unless

1. They had immensely strong legs and were very squat, maybe like large centipedes with the legs of an elephant, (or more likely)
2. They were somehow able to wriggle around like snakes, (or more likely still)
3. They were aquatic, with their weight supported by water (like whales, hippos, and very probably dinosaurs like the brontosaurus and diplodocus, which would probably not have been able to stand under their own weight on dry land).

And if they were in any way like that, then re space travel... forget it. It'd be impossible for them to have any industry of any kind. (Let alone have the means to lift off the planet itself!)

And what about AI beings (ie. robots)?
They can be scaled to any size really.
Especially if the planet is thousands of years ahead of our time.

No need to worry about blood flow.
And it's quite possible the creators would have figured out how to circumvent gravity problems.

These are the astronomical sized robot-beings we should be on the look out for (and depicting in sci-fi movies)

I have a science background and so am very familiar with the laws of physics, biology and chemistry that apply to us on our planet.

But once we are entering the realm of outer space and ET’s that are potentially thousands of years ahead of us or more, then we should discard our blinkered, earth-based view of the world and the laws of physics that restrict us in our movements on this planet.

I think we should be much more open-minded about such simple restrictions as gravity.
The limitations of gravity would likely have been one of the first obstacles that were taken care of by these aliens that are ages ahead of us.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by DaveToo (here)
But what about planets that are 100's or 1000's of times bigger than ours?

About a planet's size and its gravity, assuming the same density: (i.e. a rocky planet, not a gas giant)

• A planet 2x the diameter of Earth would have 8x the gravity. That's because gravity increases with the cube of the linear size increase, since gravity is proportional to mass, and mass is proportional to volume: i.e. the size in three dimensions, not just one.
• So as the gravity would increase with the cube of the relative size,
  — A planet 100x the diameter of Earth would have 1,000,000x Earth's gravity (100 x 100 x 100)
  — And a planet 1000x the diameter of Earth would have 1,000,000,000x earth's gravity (1000 x 1000 x 1000).

Try standing up in that.

... no matter how big and muscular and strong your legs were. Do you see the problem?

This means that any flesh-and-blood creatures evolving on a planet even a fraction of that huge size would barely be able to stand up or move. Unless

1. They had immensely strong legs and were very squat, maybe like large centipedes with the legs of an elephant, (or more likely)
2. They were somehow able to wriggle around like snakes, (or more likely still)
3. They were aquatic, with their weight supported by water (like whales, hippos, and very probably dinosaurs like the brontosaurus and diplodocus, which would probably not have been able to stand under their own weight on dry land).

And if they were in any way like that, then re space travel... forget it. It'd be impossible for them to have any industry of any kind. (Let alone have the means to lift off the planet itself!)

Low density bodies ... (uh-oh, how'd I get on this side of the fence?)

I think DaveToo is trying to imagine without the constraints of human knowledge placing preconceived notions that aliens have to be made like us (which you just did), or exist in the space time continuum like we do or occupy the same vibrational density.

Sci fi and fanatsy art have long been an interest of mine, and many artists actualy break these boundries to imagine how things just might be following some basic logic, but not bound to the minute amount of human knowledge that floats in a sea of what we don't know we don't know.

I love exercises like this it really challenges a brain to try to not think in terms of human or to filter everything through what we think we know, and come up with grand ideas.





Edit: More to topic, I think that Intranuclears first comment though might actually indicate a lot ... I agree that this notion needs to be carefully considered.

Your question has a built in assumption, that humans are not connected somehow to the ETs ...

[pluton]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

I love exercises like this it really challenges a brain to try to not think in terms of human or to filter everything through what we think we know, and come up with grand ideas.

Grand ideas are worth a broken nickel, as opposed to ideas considered by whatever-based establishment as insane. Once the High Priests of Unusual Desire start to scream insanity, then you are likely on the right path leading to the spot where the silver key, which unlocks the mindcuffs, is hidden.

[pluton]

Posted by DaveToo (here)

I think we should be much more open-minded about such simple restrictions as gravity.
The limitations of gravity would likely have been one of the first obstacles that were taken care of by these aliens that are ages ahead of us.

Well, if your speculation on breaching the effect of gravity doesn't contain any idea how this could be accomplished apart from mentioning the know-how accumulated through "the ages," then you are pointing your finger back toward antiquity and the alien being that showed up around here albeit unseen - the almighty God.