Racism

[Mark]

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
Meanwhile, in an actual science lab

Nice. I used to teach at IUPUI back in the 90s. This is good stuff.

[DNA]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
DNA.

It's good to see you. It has been a while. I hope life has been treating you well.

My following on FB consists of a couple thousand people in my friendlist. But due to the algorithms I do not reach all of those poeple.

Your characterization of what I post is inaccurate. We would not respond in such a way and do not now. You have never been a FB friend of mine that I can recall.

Look Rahkyt some of my absolute favorite threads have had a huge dialogue contribution from yourself. As such I was absolutely thrilled to start facebooking and began by seeking you out. We talked at length about 9eagle9 and LordSidious, I read one of your links where you wrote about the skyfish/Castaneda/mudshadow angle using a lot of the source material from the thread here on Avalon where we discussed such things.
I understand you having thousands of friends on Facebook would cause you to possibly not remember me, but the incident I outlined was pretty impactful for myself and as such caused me to quit facebook and erase my account at the time.

And yes, you held nothing back in labeling me a racist because I did not agree with the practice of finding filmed acts done by the lowest common denominator of a race and using that criteria as a means to judge that race as a whole.

You did not want my voice in opposition to your own and unfriended me along with throwing the racist label on me to help justify your action. I've only been back on facebook for maybe two months since that happened.

My total time on facebook is maybe five months including my short stint in my earlier facebook incarnation.

[greybeard]

Maybe slightly off topic.
If a blood transfusion is required does one investigate the DNA--the race--the religion etc of the donor?

My wife, who's photo can be seen on the signature link, is an African born in Cameroon.

She has qualified in various subjects including entrepreneurship at Edinburgh University.
She works as a support worker--enjoys looking after her clients but is underpaid and is working well below her qualifications.
Prejudice she has experience--its subtle but there.
Chris

[enfoldedblue]

I feel this discussion is so important as a means to move forward. And I admire the gentle way you are handling it Rahkyt.

I feel compelled to say I know what DNA is talking about as i too witnessesd that on FB. I watched some people, who genuinely seemed to want to understand more from your perspective, who from their limited perspective (we all have our own unique but ultimately limited perspective) may not have the experience to innately know the reality of living in a racist society, be lambasted and deleted. I did not dare say a peep, though healing the inequalities in our siciety is extremely important to me. I wanted to join in the discussion, but was afraid i would unknowingly incite an attack because of my limited perspective. As empath, the fear of being a target to this powerful, gererationaly deep anger, was enough to shut me right down. I saw how what one percieved as an innocent question stirred up huge rage, because from the perspective of someone who lives with racism on a daily basis the question doesn't come across as innocent..it comes across as ignorant...and is attacked as such. I understand the argument that it should not be up to those experiencing the inequality to have to educate the priviledged, But my question comes back again to how to move forward.

As a woman in a society in which everyday in so many little ways i am shown that I am less important than my male couterparts, I have some understanding of the inequality built into the system, and how privilege tends to be completely invisible to those that have it. But lI feel that in order to move forward it is important to unite where we can...especially with those genuinely wanting to heal. Of course anger is justified...the injustice is real....but to me change will come through healing, and healing will come through diologue....like what is occuring here.

Thank you to everyone willing to put down their defences enough to say i know i don't have the whole picture, the reference point that i see reality from is different to yours, but lets accept that we all feel vulnerable, that none of us created the inequality, regardless of if we benefitted from it, and that we can unite with the common goal of working towards a more equal society.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Maybe slightly off topic.
If a blood transfusion is required does one investigate the DNA--the race--the religion etc of the donor?

Race is sometimes a factor in giving blood transfusions, but moreso for organ donation and bone marrow transplants, which often present real problems when it comes to a lack of donors and waiting for medical treatments. Of course religion has nothing to do with biology in any way, unless certain psychological traits can be argued to predispose certain groups to certain religions, which I've never seen studied.

The basic medical idea for transplants (and blood transfusions) is that the closer someone is related to you genetically, the more easily your body will adapt to whatever antigens are in it and all the rest. People can generally accept blood from any race as long as the blood types match, but some diseases require blood to be as similar as possible because of biological/genetic similarity.

This Chicago Tribune article mentions all this:

It’s true that in common uses of transfusions, the race of the donor and recipient make no difference as long as their blood types are compatible. But sickle-cell anemia patients develop fewer bad reactions to donated blood that’s as close a match to their own as possible. Some 100,000 people have the disease in the U.S., and they’re almost all African-American. More black blood donors would help these patients have successful transfusions, the Tribune’s Lisa Schencker reports.

Closer genetic matches are also necessary for bone marrow transplants and organ donations. Here, too, the need for more black donors is great.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...422-story.html

There are lots of more technical medical papers out there too, like this one, which took no time at all to find: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1895180/


I don't think the solution to discrimination (of any type) is to pretend that things don't exist and try to rewrite physical sciences to try to force reality into "politically correct" ideologies. What passes for "politically correct" nowadays is pretty self-evidently just clown-world insanity dictated for legions of NPCs to repeat mindlessly anyway.

Speaking of which, they know their identity politics narrative is utterly collapsing in the face of scientific advances, so they're already preparing within their inner circles for how to handle inconvenient knowledge coming down the drain:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3nu1qi2CXEc

That's Neocon Zionist and Iraq War cheerleader Bill Kristol essentially interviewing a bestselling author about how they need to get ahead of the narrative change that is about to be forced by revolutions in genetics and find a way to use it to their advantage.

We're talking about science that can now not only identify physical appearance by DNA, but also what is going on inside of your body, including elevated risks of diseases, predispositions to various behaviors, and even intelligence. All of those things have been linked to some level of genetic inheritance, even if environmental factors also play a substantial role. And they can trace your ancestors all the way back to someone in the Neolithic era now, and even pinpoint specific regions that your ancestors have historically inhabited, based on people with similar genetics in those areas.

They touch on the implications of all of this science coming out in the video, and are already trying to figure out ways to control the narrative to suit some political end. This is what globalists do to erode the national identities they are trying to destroy in order to replace them.

[Mark]

Posted by Joe (here)

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
What and how, exactly, have populations that have been on the other side of racism, who have had to deny the humanity of an entire family of planetary co-inhabitants, merely because society demanded it? How has the creation of "whiteness" as a political and social entity in the United States in the mid-1600s caused those who had to take on sociopathic tendencies...

***

This is the most offensive and racist comment I have yet seen on Avalon. Black racism towards whites has been culturally acceptable for my lifetime, and it’s not right. I cringe when I hear this kind of divisive language on Avalon, but it’s all to common today by people who repeat what they hear in the media and from “higher” education experts.

Another example of this cultural creep is the mainstream acceptable statement, “Black Lives Matter”, implying in my reading that white lives don’t matter. To show an example of a similar divisive comment that is culturally unacceptable; for example, “Nazis Lives Matter”, it’s the same turn of phrase and equally true, but can you see how racially divisive that statement could be interpreted?

Racism? Really?

You have no idea who I am.


And, you've added quite a bit of hype to what is a serious topic. HOW HAS BEING PART OF AN OPPRESSOR GROUP AFFECTED WHITE PEOPLE.

It is simple. Answer the question instead of using all of those code words and asides meant to label me. Stick to the topic.

We can talk about how it has affected black and brown and red and yellow folks all day. BUT HOW HAS IT AFFECTED WHITE PEOPLE?

[Mark]

Posted by DNA (here)
I understand you having thousands of friends on Facebook would cause you to possibly not remember me, but the incident I outlined was pretty impactful for myself and as such caused me to quit facebook and erase my account at the time.

And yes, you held nothing back in labeling me a racist because I did not agree with the practice of finding filmed acts done by the lowest common denominator of a race and using that criteria as a means to judge that race as a whole.

I see.

As I can see that happening and, as I can read in your words that you are very serious about this, I believe that it happened. Whatever the reason was, it is past for both of us and I'm glad you went back to FB. It is the Village Commons and everything terrible that everyone says that it is also. I will not apologize for something I do not recall but I will claim and own the fact that I do call out what I consider to be racist behavior when I see it. As you and I have been friends, I can't believe I made a snap judgement as that is generally not my modus operandi.

So let's have that conversation again, now, if you are interested in doing so. You called me out for finding films done by the lowest common denominator of a race, is that correct? So I assume I posted a video about some racist event that occurred and then made a generalization about white people. In response to a generalization that I might have made and your answer, that it does not apply to all white people, I agree with you now, if I did not then.

When Bill made this thread and I returned, it was to have these conversations. Unbarred, unadulterated, so I'm glad you are here and that we are engaged again to complete what was unfinished business.

Posted by DNA (here)
You did not want my voice in opposition to your own and unfriended me along with throwing the racist label on me to help justify your action. I've only been back on facebook for maybe two months since that happened.

My total time on facebook is maybe five months including my short stint in my earlier facebook incarnation.

If I was speaking to you in private conversation and called you a racist, it had nothing to do with your voice being in opposition to mine in public. It is because I believed that whatever you said in that moment was, indeed, racist. I suppose I'll have to go back and look in my messages to see how that discussion went, as it is probably still way back in there somewhere.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
HOW HAS BEING PART OF AN OPPRESSOR GROUP AFFECTED WHITE PEOPLE.

Let's break this idea down into details and see how much this really makes sense.

First of all, am I personally responsible, morally or legally, or what my father, grandfather, or other ancestors did?

Second of all, how are you determining that all white people are oppressors? Do you think that no white people have ever experienced oppression, and have only been the ones dealing it out to everyone else?

Turks and Arabs enslaved millions of Europeans and other whites during the Middle Ages, either capturing them during the crusades or else during pirate raids. There are historical sources on all of this. So whites were enslaved by other races as well. Whites also enslaved other whites, just as blacks have enslaved other blacks, same for Arabs, and so on.

There are so many holes in this idea that white people are solely and collectively responsible for all oppression throughout history that all it really needs to be refuted is a world history course taught by anyone other than an SJW Marxist.

[Mark]

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
I feel compelled to say I know what DNA is talking about as i too witnessesd that on FB. I watched some people, who genuinely seemed to want to understand more from your perspective, who from their limited perspective (we all have our own unique but ultimately limited perspective) may not have the experience to innately know the reality of living in a racist society, be lambasted and deleted.

If I delete someone, it is not because of ignorance alone. It is because the ignorance is willful and the interaction has gotten emotional and accusatory. If someone enters any thread that I have created or am interacting on and they genuinely come from a position of wanting to know, I answer in kind. If I perceive that they have come to proselytize an agenda that I do not agree with then yes, I generally delete them.

The reason why is simple. I don't have the time or the willingness to teach each person what I know about race relations in the world. I can't do it. Nor can I let people with that perspective run loose on my profile in Facebook, because they often engage with others in that same vein and it turns into flame wars. As I cannot be present always to moderate these discussions, it is always easier to delete that person. What you probably witnessed, if you are refering to me directly above and not someone else on my FB, is my interaction with someone who I'd had multiple engagements with and whom I decided, when you were looking, had taken enough of my time and I had spent enough time attempting to reason with them.

There are many, many others who look at the things I post and actually take something from them. Put them selves in the Other's shoes to see what it feels like.

Not a lot do that, but when they do, it feels like there is hope in the world.

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
I did not dare say a peep, though healing the inequalities in our siciety is extremely important to me. I wanted to join in the discussion, but was afraid i would unknowingly incite an attack because of my limited perspective.

You felt like I would attack you?

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
As empath, the fear of being a target to this powerful, gererationaly deep anger, was enough to shut me right down. I saw how what one percieved as an innocent question stirred up huge rage, because from the perspective of someone who lives with racism on a daily basis the question doesn't come across as innocent..it comes across as ignorant...and is attacked as such. I understand the argument that it should not be up to thosxperiencing the inequality to have to educate the priviledged, But my question comes back again to how to move forward.

You saw rage in my response? I do not know if that is true as I have not been enraged per say in many years. I am often determined and direct when I am in that mode of engaging in educational conversations. Perhaps that looked like rage to you. I have often been called angry when I have not been. Merely direct and impassioned.

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
But lI feel that in order to move forward it is important to unite where we can...especially with those genuinely wanting to heal. Of course anger is justified...the injustice is real....but to me change will come through healing, and healing will come through diologue....like what is occuring here.

And how would you determine those who genuinely want to heal and not just spread propaganda?

[Mark]

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
First of all, am I personally responsible, morally or legally, or what my father, grandfather, or other ancestors did?

Do you benefit today from what your father, grandfather, or other ancestors did?

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
Second of all, how are you determining that all white people are oppressors? Do you think that no white people have ever experienced oppression, and have only been the ones dealing it out to everyone else?

The political and economic systems of all western european countries favor whites. All people in these nations are indoctrinated in white supremacy from childhood on. It is institutionalized.

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
Turks and Arabs enslaved millions of Europeans and other whites during the Middle Ages, either capturing them during the crusades or else during pirate raids. There are historical sources on all of this. So whites were enslaved by other races as well. Whites also enslaved other whites, just as blacks have enslaved other blacks, same for Arabs, and so on.

Yes. That was Turk and Arab supremacy. Your other examples, supremacy of those ethnic groups over whomever was suppressed and controlled.

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
There are so many holes in this idea that white people are solely and collectively responsible for all oppression throughout history that all it really needs to be refuted is a world history course taught by anyone other than an SJW Marxist.

Only you said they are solely and collectively responsible for all oppression throughout history.

[Strat]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
There are many, many others who look at the things I post and actually take something from them. Put them selves in the Other's shoes to see what it feels like.

This is why I love our discourse. I imagine we won't see eye to eye on everything but I can learn a lot from you and I genuinely enjoy your posts. I don't reply so much because frankly your posts demand a high level of critical thinking in an area that I have little education and don't spend (relatively) much time thinking about.

Keep it up buddy. Much love

[DNA]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

If I was speaking to you in private conversation and called you a racist, it had nothing to do with your voice being in opposition to mine in public. It is because I believed that whatever you said in that moment was, indeed, racist. I suppose I'll have to go back and look in my messages to see how that discussion went, as it is probably still way back in there somewhere.

It was indeed in private conversation. I hold your opinion in quite high esteem, as such this was quite a blow to me. It kind of reaffirmed my feeling that white people are not allowed to discuss race with black people. At least this was the effect it had on me at the time.

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
I see.

As I can see that happening and, as I can read in your words that you are very serious about this, I believe that it happened. Whatever the reason was, it is past for both of us and I'm glad you went back to FB. It is the Village Commons and everything terrible that everyone says that it is also. I will not apologize for something I do not recall but I will claim and own the fact that I do call out what I consider to be racist behavior when I see it. As you and I have been friends, I can't believe I made a snap judgement as that is generally not my modus operandi.

These are strange and difficult times we live in. Emotions run high, and sometimes we are on a particular train of thought and we wish not to deviate and or have someone else deviate us from this. It was not long after the Trevon Martin situation and the man having killed him walking free with no punishment. Black Lives matter and such, emotions were high.

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
So let's have that conversation again, now, if you are interested in doing so. You called me out for finding films done by the lowest common denominator of a race, is that correct? So I assume I posted a video about some racist event that occurred and then made a generalization about white people. In response to a generalization that I might have made and your answer, that it does not apply to all white people, I agree with you now, if I did not then.

You didn't do anything so bad. Your followers were making the comments and you were agreeing with them.

I could have let it go had it been isolated, but it felt like this was the direction of your page to a greater extent, and this disheartened me greatly.

With your intelligence and ability to see things as they were I always thought you could have been the Candace Owens of our time.

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
When Bill made this thread and I returned, it was to have these conversations. Unbarred, unadulterated, so I'm glad you are here and that we are engaged again to complete what was unfinished business.

Fair enough, but part of being white right now is that you feel muzzled, as if you are not allowed to express an opinion on the subject.

[Iloveyou]

Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)

Turks and Arabs enslaved millions of Europeans and other whites during the Middle Ages, either capturing them during the crusades or else during pirate raids. There are historical sources on all of this. So whites were enslaved by other races as well. Whites also enslaved other whites, just as blacks have enslaved other blacks, same for Arabs, and so on.

Yes, they did it and still do. As individuals, groups and nations. Though the caste of oppressors, the earth-wide top elite has been white, for the most part if not all of known time (I’m not going back to South American empires or concepts like Atlantis now as there is known to little about). Am I wrong here? As this time I‘m incarnated on the wealthy, privileged side, I believe I have to take responsibility for my thoughts and actions, even in regards to that, beyond guilt and shame.

I suppose there is no consent on whether Turks and Arabs are considered white or non-white? I’m asking out of genuine interest.



edit: the thread moved on quickly, while I was writing, so just ignore, please . . .

[greybeard]

Non racism is for me.
at the deepest level I am not aware of being white--male--or any other label.
Im not aware of the other being anything other than not me--but not different.
I am aware that racism exists--im aware that every race has faced discrimination--the Scots have a long history of being the underdog. Scottish pound notes are not always accepted in England.
The Irish long the but of English humour.
As usual I turn to the spiritual Only Brahman exists--God -- consciousness call it what you will.
When we can truly say Namaste and fully understand that the other is Christ in disguise we will be getting somewhere.
Till then Racism exists.
Chris

[greybeard]

As far as discrimination goes there is not a person alive who has not experienced this.
Me being the only pupil in the primary school being of a different baptism--put me off religion pretty quick.
That was a gift.
The being an alcoholic--in the very early days of AA--there was some prejudice--shown to me.
We can all shout about inequality--the advice given to me was "Get over it"
We have no control over what other people think and all the protests --marches--whatever-- just solidifies the feeling of difference, resentment.

Chris

[Ally S.]

Hi Avalon! This is really only my second time posting and i'd like to share my experience with you as a person of mixed ethnicity and a parent of child who is even more mixed. I apologize in advance if i'm not super clear today, I'm having a seizure day, plus my usual brain fog that leaves me a bit confused. Might have to break my posts up into smaller ones to get my story/point across. My mother is "white", her ancestors were Scottish, Irish, English, Scandinavian, and Austrian. My father was a "brown person", he was Hispanic with deep roots in the American Southwest. That means my father's family is a mixture of Native American and European ancestry, and also African. And it just so happens, that those Europeans from Iberia, had been Sephardic Jews. My whole life I've tried to fit in and you could say that I've enjoyed "white privilidge" as my mother left my father when I was 5 or so and I grew up in a rural community in the Midwest (with very few people of color and very few Jews). But my first few years formed my identity, I ate beans, tortillas, tamales, red and green chilies as a child, this is my food, I love it!. I spent a lot of time with my Hispanic grandparents and family. My great grandmother was full-blood Navajo, and while very little of her culture was shared with me, it's what I was drawn to. I was proud of my Hispanic heritage. My grandparents stopped speaking Spanish, their parents still spoke it, but this was a time when it was frowned upon to speak Spanish in school (they were told not to) and my father never learned. I always found this sad.

My skin is quite pale and I have never really been accepted by my darker Hispanic friends, yes we were friends, but I had to somehow prove my "hispanicness" to them. My mother remarried and my stepfather adopted me. My stepdad is white. He grew up with a very racist father and i've had to endure countless derogatory terms used towards my family and African Americans, and Asians. One time I told him, "hey, when you say these things about Hispanics, you say that to me too". I found it funny that his father had "fought the Nazis" in WW2, and yet both my step grandfather and the Nazis where racist, they had the same views!

I met my daughter's father when I was 19. He is also mixed, white mom, black dad. So my daughter is a nice mixture of so many different ethnicities and it shows, she's beautiful.

But here's the problem we face. Where do we fit in? (I'll share my experience with trying to reconnect with my Jewish ancestry in another post, trying to find some acceptance there has been challenging at times). My daughter does not qualify for any scholarships based on minority status. She's not black enough to qualify for black scholarships, she's not hispanic enough or Native American enough to qualify for those. And we really could use the financial help. Is she black? Is she Hispanic? Is she white? I've tried to raise her to be open and accepting to all races and cultures. I love to experience other people's cultures. I've decided that i'll be human. I think people of mixed ethnicity are the future. I have zero time for racists and bigots, no matter what color they are.

A few years ago I met a Navajo woman. When I shared with her that I also have Native American ancestry, she rolled her eyes. I get why she might be annoyed with that. Many Americans seem to think they have Native Ancestry, only to find out through a DNA test that they do not. I have it on paper and via DNA testing. I don't claim to belong to any tribe. Many of my ancestors had been captured Native Americans from other tribes and sold or traded by other Native Americans as slaves to the Spanish.

Again, sorry if my post is all over the place. I'm not finished sharing so will post when I have some time later and my brain can get back to normal...epilepsy is no joke.

Ally

[Mark]

Posted by Strat (here)
This is why I love our discourse. I imagine we won't see eye to eye on everything but I can learn a lot from you and I genuinely enjoy your posts. I don't reply so much because frankly your posts demand a high level of critical thinking in an area that I have little education and don't spend (relatively) much time thinking about.

My perspective is merely that, mine. I have been blessed in this lifetime to have had unique experiences for a black man of my age, spiritual and material. To have traveled the world and to have had the opportunity to engage in academic endeavors, to teach in classrooms and to learn, ever to learn. To find out that people are people no matter where you are, no matter their gender or color or inclination we are all souls on a journey of understanding and connection.

It has also been my experience that those with whom I disagree the most are often the ones from whom I have the most to learn, which is why I seek out those venues in order to engage and to continue the human discussion. Thanks for being present and for being open.

[Mark]

Posted by DNA (here)
It was indeed in private conversation. I hold your opinion in quite high esteem, as such this was quite a blow to me. It kind of reaffirmed my feeling that white people are not allowed to discuss race with black people. At least this was the effect it had on me at the time.

As it is a topic fraught with emotion and difficult to speak about in the United States in particular, I understand where you're coming from. I have obviously seen it, as you have, in many attempted discussions. When such discussions are held in the "Village Commons" and they are not direct and able to be engaged in without interruption from those not seeking common ground, it is difficult to get through the noise to the understanding that often lies beyond it.

Posted by DNA (here)
These are strange and difficult times we live in. Emotions run high, and sometimes we are on a particular train of thought and we wish not to deviate and or have someone else deviate us from this. It was not long after the Trevon Martin situation and the man having killed him walking free with no punishment. Black Lives matter and such, emotions were high.

Right. I still do not directly recall this interaction between us nor can I find it in my Facebook messages. It is quite possible that I deleted it. Moving forward now, beyond all that, it was most probably the situation I mentioned above to you and also in my discussion with Enfoldedblue. I cultivate discussion on FB, which is relatively unusual from my experience, and I have a lot of people whom folks here would call SJWs who will step up in a heartbeat to go to battle. Often, it used to happen when I was at work or similarly engaged elsewhere and I'd get back on FB and find a battle had occurred on my profile that I was not present to mediate.

I like peace in what I consider my cultivated environment. I've found over the last few years that it is very, very hard to exist simultaneously in the AltCom and the Mainstream world, and yet, I have good friends in both and their views are very, very dissimilar. How I handle that now is to make clear my posting and sharing strategy on FB with my AltCom friends, which is to relatively slowly attempt to awaken people with measured information over time and it is succeeding. When I can get the collusion of folks who know a bit more, they assist, often, and do the same on their profiles.

Posted by DNA (here)
You didn't do anything so bad. Your followers were making the comments and you were agreeing with them.

I could have let it go had it been isolated, but it felt like this was the direction of your page to a greater extent, and this disheartened me greatly.

It was and is not, fully. What my profiles always are, are places where people can engage in conversations that are on the cusp of what is known and unknown. I share information on science, on spirit, on life and love. And, race. As I mentioned to you privately earlier, we have never really disagreed about anything, ever, except this one topic and, I think, that disagreement has more to do with not having finished the conversation, which we can now do.

Also, my profile is a work of alchemy, for me. Of transformation of understanding. Of sharing information that challenges their mainstream belief systems and then conversating about it. It is a slow process but one with which I have had some success with people who have been with me since 2012 and before.

Posted by DNA (here)
With your intelligence and ability to see things as they were I always thought you could have been the Candace Owens of our time.

I have listened to her before. My problem with the polar stance she cultivates is that it leaves too many behind. I believe there is another way.

Posted by DNA (here)
Fair enough, but part of being white right now is that you feel muzzled, as if you are not allowed to express an opinion on the subject.

In the mainstream? Yes. That is so, to an extent. Because other voices are being elevated. Voices that have been silenced or suppressed for hundreds of years. But there are spaces where that is possible. It seems to me that a lot of it also has to do with the way that the opinion is expressed, without an understanding of the perspective of the Other.

[Mark]

Posted by Joe (here)
You’ve used a lot of words to hide some rather blatant racism. The assumptions of your question are wrong, but culturally and educationally acceptable, and so I suspect you get away with this kind of language outside of Avalon. Here I like to think we understand actual history, not the indoctrinated language of the oppressors that is the foundation of your education.

Explain how I am racist. Also, explain how the assumption is wrong. Making a statement is not necessary telling a truth. Back it up.

Posted by Joe (here)
Let me explain it by example. Your label of “whiteness” is the same kind of language that David Duke uses to label Jews as the “oppressors”. Are all Jews responsible for running the global cabal? Most certainly not. But his language is inflammatory towards all Jews and is used as a tool to divide the masses, and it is dangerous and it is wrong.

"Whiteness" as I use it here is a cultural construct. It is an accepted term to speak about an ideology and a social "reality". It is not about people, it is about the ideas that people have about themselves. So it is an attempt to speak about an overlay of sorts. If you would like to use another term, feel free. I am open to changing the language of the discussion to being more acceptable to you. Please, share what you think is "right".

[Mark]

Posted by Ally S. (here)
But here's the problem we face. Where do we fit in? (I'll share my experience with trying to reconnect with my Jewish ancestry in another post, trying to find some acceptance there has been challenging at times). My daughter does not qualify for any scholarships based on minority status. She's not black enough to qualify for black scholarships, she's not hispanic enough or Native American enough to qualify for those. And we really could use the financial help. Is she black? Is she Hispanic? Is she white? I've tried to raise her to be open and accepting to all races and cultures. I love to experience other people's cultures. I've decided that i'll be human. I think people of mixed ethnicity are the future. I have zero time for racists and bigots, no matter what color they are.

Our ways of categorization are decrepit and based on 19th century biological classifications that were inherently racist and based upon white supremacy and superiority. They must change, hence my contention that the current crop of geneticists and those holding out to change the language of classification to one more scientifically based, i.e. race is an illogical and socially-based construct, and ethnicity is the only division in the human family. We are the same species. The word "race", with all of its negative qualities and histories, is outdated. Which means, our ways of determining who gets what have to be based on something beyond the ways we current measure such things.

Your lived reality is shared by many and there is no good answer to be had, nor a realistic solution available. The systems we experience in the USA must shift to reflect the reality we live, not the enforced and encoded reality of a past that should not travel into the future with us.