Integrity

[Icecold]

Ulli, (psychologically this can possibly be explained in that I was a daddy's girl)


BTW...that is James Randi

[Isostool]

Posted by jjl (here)
This to me, would strengthen the argument that they were not happy here.

This point is not at question, for all you need to do to answer this is to ask Goldenyears: and she did not unsubscribe herself, she was forcibly removed.

The point it is making as evidence, among many, is about the nature of the evidence and justification in this case, how it is gathered and what is inferred from it. And if that process in all its implications and extensions is just.

[Icecold]

European Union Policy on Freedom of Speech (FWIW )

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.


It seems that TPB have a more democratic idea of freedom of speech than some other parts of the planet.

Usually, the only reason freedom of speech is challenged is if it incites violence of revolution???

[Lily de Cuir]

Posted by Icecold (here)

Originally Posted by Chinaski
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?

Oh look the gestapo is on the job. lmao

This reminds me of 1984 and the 'thought police'. ROTFLMAO

{quoted ad hominem attack removed}.

Hello Everyone,

I know I shouldn't laugh at this, but thanks Icecold (always knew I liked you, lol...)

Gotta love the straight talking Ozzies and the humour.

Don't take offence anyone, we're just taking the mickey...

Jesus, Ice, we could be skating on thin ice here, no pun intended....

Love Lily

[Janos]

You are banning MORE good people? Do you not know when to say 'when'? Or are the people making these decisions just absolutely clueless to the fallout that it causes?

Is this what you truly want, Bill and new mods, a sanitised and 'safe' environment, where comments made on an entirely separate board, or a 'thanks' given to a post is judged as agreeing with it 100%, and judgement is passed that the person has no integrity?

For crap sake, you could search all most posts here over the last several months, and at Nexus, and you'd see that I FREQUENTLY 'thank' things that I don't even agree with. I thank them if they make me think, I thank them if I feel that is how the person truly feels, and they've taken the time and effort to type it down, and I thank things, sometimes, that I agree with as well.

But that's not YOUR judgment to make, and honestly, none of your goram business!!

What I thank or not thank, is none of your concern, and has nothing to say about MY integrity, considering you have no clue why I thanked it in the first place, and can only make biased frontloaded assumptions based upon what you want to be true.

However it DOES tell us a lot about YOUR integrity, doesn't it?

And to Limor, I read the message you sent to Goldenyears and instructed her to post on Nexus... you are way, way, beyond way, out of line.

{mod edit: removed ad hominem attack}

I guess Nagual was right when they said that to be a member here you have to be a follower. Considering... that they seem to have been banned for that comment.

You know what, I fully, 100% agree with that comment. It does appear now, unfortunately that you DO have to be a 'follower' here, lest you risk the almighty 'banhammer'.

Pull your heads out of your collective asses before you lose what interesting member base you have left, and are left only with the hordes that will 'thank' your next post refuting this one, en masse.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
---------

Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

You can say that again. Holy cats.

All of my efforts here have proven utterly futile.

[GK76]

People lets stop sweeping this issue under the carpet and face it as a community (as it should be faced). Yes, forums need moderation, but in moderation... not with an iron fist. So many have left or been pushed due to over zealous rules and damage control, lets make peace, forgive and move on... but not forget or we'll be back here again in 3 months time.

This situation can be fixed, and for the good of the community it should be fixed. Honesty will be the key, open your hearts and stop reacting with negativity. Many things here have been kept from the community, we should all be calling for an end to this destructive force... we can do this with openness.

[Isostool]

Posted by Icecold (here)

Originally Posted by Chinaski
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?

Oh look the gestapo is on the job. lmao

This reminds me of 1984 and the 'thought police'. ROTFLMAO

{mod edit: removed ad hominem attack}

hahaha I knew you'd get done for that old chap!!!

Excellent use of the correct formal logical term for descriptive clarity, Dennis..... lol.

[Icecold]

Posted by GK76 (here)
People lets stop sweeping this issue under the carpet and face it as a community (as it should be faced). Yes, forums need moderation, but in moderation... not with an iron fist. So many have left or been pushed due to over zealous rules and damage control, lets make peace, forgive and move on... but not forget or we'll be back here again in 3 months time.

This situation can be fixed, and for the good of the community it should be fixed. Honesty will be the key, open your hearts and stop reacting with negativity. Many things here have been kept from the community, we should all be calling for an end to this destructive force... we can do this with openness.

You see the dilemma Paul?

No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.

This sets up an impasse.

[ThePythonicCow]

This thread is temporarily closed for repairs.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello all,

I am in a short vacation at the country side, but I just want to pop in and say a few things.

This forum was not and it is not about free speech. Free speech would have to include trolls, spam, pornographic material, and otherwise topics that are not in alignment with the mission of Project Avalon.

This is a private, moderated forum. It is not free a speech forum. Bill together with the moderation team is working to keep this a high quality forum (from his point of view, of course).

This forum does not limit people rights! So please, do not compare it with 1984 and “thought police”. You always are free to go, you are free to create and maintain your own forums, you are free to create your own projects and web pages and you are free to associate with whomever you like. Nobody at Avalon will kill you or torture you over that! This is not 1984 and nothing like the thought police! (I know, I have read the book).

There is no need to walk on egg-shells either. This is not what Bill was asking for in this thread. All you have to do is ask yourself if you are still resonating with this forum. And if not, you can easily and gracefully leave.

It is unrealistic to expect that this forum is a perfect fit for all, or to ask to have it your way. As I have already said: you can always create your own projects that can complete the work of Avalon (instead of compete with it). You can always try and materialize your own vision of what a forum should be, but you will have to do that at your own forum.

PS: And before bashing the mod team or Bill, please also try to consider the support we offer daily and quietly to the members of this forum. You know... the private messages, personal emails and answers to help requests... imagine asking that from the "thought police" in "1984".

[ThePythonicCow]

Janos has asked that his account be retired. I have done so.

I am reopening this thread. Ilie spoke my thoughts better than I could have, in the post just above.

[Icecold]

Another extremely articulate, intelligent member gone.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1x_QbVDlLbI

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Lily de Cuir (here)
Am I correct in surmising that Inelia and Bill are now a partnership and an 'item'? That would explain Kerry's 'dummy spit' in releasing the Charles documents on another thread, in order to maintain some control, as it seems to be her modus operandi.

Hi, Liiy, All:

Kerry - like almost anyone else who has ever met her! - thinks the world of Inelia (quote: "She's a doll" ), and is delighted that we're working closely together.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?

are you sure they only had one strike?

I think once everyone has calmed down and Avalon starts moving forward in the direction it was created for, many names you mention along with many of those going back to the Mists will rejoin us...

Just relax for now and understand a child indigo has foreseen a disaster striking Japan in May...

we need to let our attention focus on changes to prevent it from happening...

I don't want any more friends to leave us...

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Icecold (here)
No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.

Not so.

If I were to choose a team of Avalon members to while away the time on a desert island (or a spaceship on a long trip), Chicodoodoo would be right there on my list.

He's intelligent, respectful, analytical, questioning, open to learning, and never slips into covert hostility, sarcasm, or cheap backbiting - even when bothered by something. That has my respect.

One criterion for my respect is whether the member concerned would say whatever they are saying elsewhere on the internet to the face of the person being criticized or smeared. I know that Chicodoodoo and I would get along really well. I suspect that he'd agree.

Anyone can approach me in person at any event or conference and say anything they want to. Many here will testify. I value that, and will talk with anyone who wants to talk with me. But many do not have the courage to do that when all they want to do is denigrate.

It's interesting to me that negative comments are so often made by people hiding behind anonymity, and not taking any responsibility for their statements, the hurt they cause others who are trying to do what they can to help, or the negative influence they are spreading.

Words on the internet are cheap. The courage to communicate in person is not.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

If it's true that some members have been 'retired' based on them showing gratitude to posts on other forums, I'm deeply unhappy about that.

To continue the use of the 'guest in my house' metaphor, you should judge members solely on their interaction within the house. In real life, you wouldn't send your housekeeper out to do some 'private investigations' on your guest! That's just plain rude, and dare I say it, paranoid.

As has been mentioned before, no context can be derived by someone that has 'thanked' another post.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by greybeard (here)
I thought the thank you button just meant you found something helpful in the post not that you agreed totally completely and utterly with the whole content
I have thanked many who had opposing opinions to mine as they prompted me to examine my thoughts.
I thanked people for giving me the chance to hold and express a different view.

Chris

come on lets all be honest...

how many of you have disagreed with almost everything someone wrote, and finally you find a post that makes you smile...

doesn't it feel good to finally thank that person...

[Bill Ryan]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showt...ll=1#post10203

dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showt...ll=1#post10203

dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

Bill, don't be disingenuous, you are quoting part of a post.
How do you know they agreed with the post in its entirety?
Or if in part? And if in part, which part?
Things are starting to get into the surreal now.
It is almost like the twilight zone.
I would have to think it is carrot time again, except I am not sure who to carrot first.

[Icecold]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Icecold (here)
No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.

Not so.

If I were to choose a team of Avalon members to while away the time on a desert island (or a spaceship on a long trip), Chickodoodoo would be right there on my list.

He's intelligent, respectful, analytical, questioning, open to learning, and never slips into covert hostility, sarcasm, or cheap backbiting - even when bothered by something. That has my respect.

One criterion for my respect is whether the member concerned would say whatever they are saying elsewhere on the internet to the face of the person being criticized or smeared. I know that Chickodoodoo and I would get along really well. I suspect that he'd agree.

Anyone can approach me in person at any event or conference and say anything they want to. Many here will testify. I value that, and will talk with anyone who wants to talk with me. But many do not have the courage to do that when all they want to do is denigrate.

It's interesting to me that negative comments are so often made by people hiding behind anonymity, and not taking any responsibility for their statements, the hurt they cause others who are trying to do what they can to help, or the negative influence they are spreading.

Words on the internet are cheap. The courage to communicate in person is not.

I'll tell you what, I would say anything I say in a post to anyone's face. Believe it.