David Wilcock:

'Futuretalk' transcript

This page is a reformatted version of the original Project Camelot publication.


Futuretalk: a further conversation with David Wilcock

Los Angeles, March 2008

Start of conversation

Kerry: This is Project Camelot and David Wilcock, and we are Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. We are here to have a discussion about what’s coming in 2012 and any other topic that crosses our minds.

Bill: It’s unscripted. We are unprepared. It’s late at night, and we’ve been celebrating David’s birthday of a few days ago; and that’s half of three score years and ten - and we congratulate him for making it this far; we’ve have made it a little bit further, but we still have a long way to go - and David, congratulations! You're the baby among us here. That’s meant to be a compliment, not an insult.

David: [laughs] I’ve been knocked for my age in this field for so long!

Bill: You’re also the tallest and the fairest.

Kerry: Wait a minute... [laughter] I’m going to object to that, but okay.

Bill: Tallest.

Kerry: Absolutely!

Bill: Okay, so... what this is about?

This is an opportunity to catch up, it's an opportunity to respond to a lot of requests that we have had - and this is unscripted, so I’d be interested to know if David has had the same sort of feedback from the visitors to his website, and the 120 e-mails a day that you get per day...

David: 120 a day now.

Bill: ...to discuss between us the state of the world, the state of the cosmos as much as we are aware; what may be happening, what may not be happening, what kind of information we've all been receiving between us. What is reliable, what is unreliable - what our take is on all of that.

David: Certainly!

When you start to study these 2012 fields and the whole idea of there being a change in the world that’s happening right now, invariably you see what my source and other sources have referred to as planetary inconveniences.

Bill: That’s a beautiful euphemism...

David: Yes!

Bill: ...I’ve never heard that one before. [laughter]

Bill: Planetary inconveniences... so, if Bush nukes Iran...

Kerry: This is going to be a new-coined phrase.

David: It’ll be inconvenient... [laughter]

Bill: It’s going to be inconvenient for a lot of people, that’s for sure.

Kerry: Hopefully sudden death doesn’t enter into these inconveniences.

Bill: This is the definition of optimism: it’s inconvenient. Go on, go on...

David: It seems to be that there is a unified model that puts all this stuff together and shows that we are being pushed to the next level of our evolution; and in order to evolve, the universe gives us what is called catalyst - and catalyst is often times not what we would want; it’s what we don’t want. So a lot of times we get what we don’t want and that’s the prod that gets us to take down the shield of armor we put around our heart.

Bill: Just as individuals do in their lives.

David: Yeah.

And so in your own life, if you have a negative thought about yourself, if you don’t love yourself, that doesn’t mean everybody comes and loves you; that means that you attract people to yourself who don’t love you. So if you are dealing with these issues yourself, you may notice in your life you’re consistently having people coming in who seem to be dishonoring you, disrespecting you; making you feel as if you are somehow diminished.

And the reason why that happens, according to this esoteric philosophy, is that by seeing your reflection in someone else, you have the opportunity to grow from that reflection. You’re basically seeing a projection of who you are inside your own mind. The part of yourself that you don’t want to see, your shadow, becomes magnetically attracted to you with great intensity and power.

Bill: And the metaphor that you’re using is that the shadow is actually global events that may be occurring around us and for each of us this is the reflection.

David: In the sense that the earth itself is a sentient being which functions both electromagnetically, and with these torsion fields that the Russians have talked about, which is also the field of consciousness. Earthquakes, volcanoes, anomalous heating, and severe weather - all these things are attributable to torsion field effects. In fact, that’s the whole basis of weather control technology, scalar waves and so forth.

Well, the thing that a lot of people don’t realize is that very much, the weather can be controlled also by a person’s own conscious focus and that goes all the way back to Wilhelm Reich with his cloudbusters and so forth. So the point being that...

Bill: Like what Jeffrey Mishlove wrote about in The PK Man - incredible, incredible story.

David: Right, and it’s an ancient truism in many, many philosophies that the quality of a leader of a particular country determines the quality of the country, and if the leader goes bad and the country goes bad, then you get all of these typhoons and mud slides and tsunamis and so forth. And that’s an ancient understanding based on this notion of the earth as a conscious being.

And so if you see this energy that’s increasing in intensity in the earth - certain areas where there is resistance, where a lot of people are holding onto the consciousness of separation, consciousness of fear and scarcity, then in those areas earthquakes and severe weather is attracted to them to disrupt that clamp in that area.

Kerry: That actually works out except when you talk about, you know, targeted weather wars, where people are actually sending a scalar pulse that will cause an earthquake, say in Indonesia or wherever. Then you have another layer on to that concept.

David: Absolutely. I do also think though that consciousness can sufficiently override the gadgets if the will is there. In other words, even the gadgets, I think - all they can do is nudge along and make something happen faster that would have happened anyway.

Kerry: Right. So the idea being if consciousness in Indonesia, if that was a targeted area, or Japan; because we just talked to Ben Fulford and they were talking about how Japan was being threatened by the US with the scalar weapons, saying they were going to cause an earthquake if Takanaka didn’t do certain things; according to the will of the US.

David: Let’s be honest. I think part of that also was the cynicism of the ruling class based on this ‘Fire the Grid’ meditation. Remember that? Everybody was getting these forwards about fire the grid, we’re going to light up the grid.

Well, those earthquakes that were right underneath the nuclear power plant were like hours before the Fire the Grid meditation. So I think whoever was pulling the lever was trying to get it to exactly coincide with the Fire the Grid, and they probably built up the charge for the earthquake too fast, so it didn’t go off at the exact moment as the Fire the Grid thing - it happened too early. But that really showed me somebody was trying to hit that point.

Kerry: Well, meaning what? They were trying to throw off all the meditators?

David: Yeah, they were trying to make it look like it did the exact opposite, so that people would have this benchmark that would say, “Not only does it not work, but it actually does the opposite. It actually makes it worse.”

Kerry: Okay, but that perhaps is a simultaneous rationale for a certain negative action but, at the same time, they were targeting or sending a message to Japan and to Takanaka.

David: Absolutely, both of those things are true.

Kerry: Okay, yeah.

David: But it was the timing where they say, “Hey look, we can also hit Fire the Grid at the same time that we’re threatening the Japanese.”

Kerry: Okay, then you come back to the idea that the Japanese people could have perhaps turned that around if their consciousness was in the right place.

David: Absolutely. You have to understand that many of these things that have been planned don’t work out; and I do believe that we’re like children in the sand box essentially, and there are beings of vastly higher intelligence and vastly higher ability that essentially make sure that we can foul up the nest if we want to, but outside of the nest not much is going to happen.

Even inside the nest we live in a very highly structured reality. This is the most intrinsic thing to awaken to on the spiritual path - so many people are living their lives thinking that it’s just cause and effect on the most gross level of... if the human being does something, that’s what happens; or if nature does something, that’s what happens, but there is no other causality; and it’s this magical awakening that happens when you start to see a connection between your thoughts and the manifestation that happens.

Bill: And then that dismantles the whole expected cause and effect train of one’s whole life, and that creates the space for miracles to occur.

David: Absolutely!

Bill: And you and I have been talking about this just over dinner here, and the most extraordinary things that can happen once you kind of give that permission.

David: Right. And as you were saying the synchronicities that people are having now are so extraordinary that if you dare to put it into a film screenplay, the readers would never let you get the script sold.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, it would never be admitted. Crazy things happen!

Kerry: Right; and you were talking about the money thing that was going on.

David: Financial synchronicities are cool because then you’re seeing this applies to more than just a nice little affirmation. It’s actually... big things can happen. But, again, it’s not like ‘The Secret’: the universe is not a cosmic vending machine and gratification mechanism.

Kerry: Right.

David: The more that you ask for, the more you need to be willing to give. If you want to bid the universe for a high degree of material affluence, you have to also be willing to give a great deal of affluence back.

I really think that principle of Namaste is very much what the new internet thing is about. A lot of you who watch this video may be interested in transitioning to an online income like I’ve done, and what I believe is the new standard for the internet now is you have to give away 50% of your best content free; because if you don’t do that then people are not going to want to buy stuff anymore. So it’s the same principle; you give and you get.

So now the internet has really equalized all that. You can’t just give a web site that puts out a sales pitch and doesn’t show you what you’re gonna get because... people are doing that but they’re not selling anything, whereas if you circulate your wealth, it comes back to you much more readily.

Bill: By that token then, we’re really going to get rich because we don’t sell anything! [laughter]

David: That’s why I donate to you guys.

Bill: There’s two metaphors here which I really like, and something that dawned on me a little while back; quite a while back, but it took me a few years to realize it, is that the secret of success in a relationship is not to go into it looking for what you can get, but to go into it looking for what you can give; and then that enables that return flow, which is the kind of thing you’re talking about.

And the other metaphor which I really love is that you don’t get rich by hanging onto your money, in the same way that you don’t live forever by holding your breath. [Laughter].

You’ve got to let it go and then it comes back, and it’s just a form of energy - and energy is meant to move, and so on and so forth.

David: Well, in the Deep South we have an expression: I’ll stop worryin’ about money so it’ll come find me ta get some attenshun. [Laughter]

Bill: I love it.

Listen here - what I would love to talk to you about, this is great - let’s just imagine for a moment that you’re psychic, okay [laughter] and what do you think, if you were a betting man, talking about money? What’s going to happen in the world in the next few years? What do you think? And we are not asking you to peg your reputation on this, this is just the cornerstones for a discussion that we want to have. What do you think is going to be going on?

Kerry: And we have to preface this by saying that over dinner, which we have had just previous to this, we had a long discussion about some of the predictions going up into and including and beyond 2012 that Dan Burisch was telling us, some of which we can’t even release on this video interview yet because we haven’t gotten permission. [Editor's note: click here for the page in question, after Dan gave his consent for the material to be released.]

But there were things discussed over dinner, so whatever David says right now may or may not include some of the things that Dan Burisch mentioned that were seen in ‘Looking Glass’.

Bill: There are the most esoteric forms of intelligence information - we’re talking about intelligence probes into the future. We’re reaching into the future to see what’s going to come back, or rather to see what kind of future we’re going to be heading into - which then, of course, makes the whole thing subject to change; because human beings have free will and have their own agendas, and everything else in the world going on. Therefore that enables people to spike the guns if they don’t like the future that they see, and they’ve got all kinds of push and pull effects going on.

Kerry: Also, looking at it changes it.

David: Well, in private conversations I’ve had with Dan, he’s expressed that we don’t really understand the technology; we don’t really understand how it works. And there’s more and more evidence which he himself validated to suggest (as I also go into in the 2012 Enigma video) that the intent of the person running the chair, or in this case the intent of the person running the Looking Glass, does determine the outcome.

Bill: But what we hear over and over again, ever since the days of Walter Heisenberg and Neils Bohr: consciousness is king.

David: Right.

Bill: It is coming back to us in the micro and the macro all the time.

David: Okay, so I will not shirk from the realm of controversy. I have been getting a lot of Barack Obama dreams - a lot.

Bill: Oh really?

David: They are presenting him very, very favorably. I had a dream recently that telegraphed that some big, nasty thing was going to happen to him; that it was an inside job, that it was intended to try to diminish his credibility and that he was going to take a hard hit from it, but that it wouldn’t kill his candidacy. And that was before this whole thing came out about the preacher.

So, it would be a very intriguing and fascinating possibility. It may not happen, but it would be an intriguing and fascinating possibility if he was able to actually win the election; because what you’re basically dealing with is a bloodless coup against the ruling elite, the royalty that has been secretly, covertly running the country since at least 1913.

So what’s so important about this presidential election is that it’s the last President’s term before 2012, right? So if there’s any credibility to 2012 at all, then we have to consider that whoever is President during this time, it’s the pivotal moment. I mean, you can look on tbrnews.org, it’s a web site - www.tbrnews.org - and read the voice of the White House insider disclosures.

Bill: T-B...? For...

David: T-B-R, for The Barnes Review: tbrnews.org. There’s a column called Voice of the White House and it has proven itself to be a very valuable source of intel. It’s somebody who works within the White House in the Bush administration and who has been sort of secretly letting loose all sorts of insider stuff; telegraphing this, that and the other; and he has said on several occasions now that they are terrified of Obama winning this election. He is not in their pocket at all.

Kerry: What is this source saying about war with Iran, for example?

David: They are desperate - desperate to try to get it to happen any way they can - and the National Intelligence estimate was a leak to basically torpedo that from the highest level. That’s in there. There’s all kinds of stuff in there. They’re terrified about Pakistan; terrified that they’re going to get a nuclear bomb and they’re covering all that up in the media because it’s such a scary thing for them.

They’re terrified about the economy; it’s hanging on by a thread. It could go at any moment. They say that the next thing that’s going to happen is the credit card crisis. That basically the credit card industry is actually just as bad as the housing industry.

Kerry: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Bill: People are defaulting on their payments all the time.

David: That’s actually why they are offering these incentives to file your tax returns because so many people are not filing. They can’t even begin to go after non-filers because there’s way too many. It’s the same thing - they’re not paying for their houses, why would they pay taxes either?

Kerry: So what we have is a source that says money, American money, is only good for the next two years. We’ve got secret witnesses coming forward saying eventually there’s civil war for America, and basically we’re just talking about the state of the economy and the fact that the banks are failing right now. Come on, we want to have a positive view of the future; and in a sense, this is the dissolution of America which could lead to a more positive future.

David: That’s what I’m saying, right. I mean you do have to consider the fact that there is the contraction of the birth canal in the process of giving birth to a baby, and it’s painful - and you scream and it hurts; and we’re going to see the dismantling of many of the Illuminati corporations.

I really think media, monarchy, oligopoly doesn’t work. That’s why Time Warner is desperate to get rid of AOL - look at the viewership numbers of broadcast television; it’s plummeting like crazy! The writer’s strike did not help. Now there’s a director’s strike; there’s an actor’s strike coming up. It’s hanging on by a thread!

Same thing with films - they keep projecting what kind of money they are going to make off a given film based on its budget and so forth, and you have to make 250% more than the film costs in order to even get any money back from it, if you go with a studio deal.

So, films aren’t making any money. You can write off all those profits as actual expenses – there’s all kinds of creative accounting.

And one of the other things - actually this is a really interesting point, too - the Voice of the White House said, very controversial: the reason why the media did not pursue Enron more than they did is because once the media started looking at their own companies, they found that they were all doing the same stuff that Enron was doing. Enron was just the one that happened to get caught, and so as a result of that... pshewww! [raises hands]

But look at what has happened, I mean come on! The United States government has bailed out, with our money, two hundred billion dollars of liquidity back into the banks - essentially rewarding the behavior of stealing from the American people by giving them these deceptive loans, where your optimism says, “Well yeah, okay, for the first three years I’ll have these great monthly payments and then I’ll just re-finance and just get another loan, so that when the payments go up I won’t have to worry about it!”

Well, guess what? Three years later you can’t re-finance and you’re stuck in this payment, which is now like half of your monthly income.

Bill: Yeah, it’s like the cartoon character running off the cliff and not realizing that they’re going to fall.

David: Well think about the comedy of this, right? The banks are ripping people off - they mess up so badly that they’re literally about to go completely dead, and then they get the people’s money to reward the fact that they went dead because they stole people’s money! So they just keep double dipping.

Bill: Yep. And all they’re doing is buying time. And there’s not a lot of time left to buy.

David: No.

Kerry: The people’s money is drying up as well. That’s what Ben Fulford is talking about which is basically America is bankrupt; the Japanese are the only ones that have the five trillion dollars that is in reserve right? That’s what we’re looking at in the future - where is the money going to come from?

David: And let’s not forget too that if you’re dealing with the European Illuminati, the so-called Rothschild faction - everybody knows about the Rothschild’s now, it’s no secret - the Rothschild’s side has planned all along for something they call ‘the revealing’ and this gets into the Svali material I was telling you about over dinner.

Svali is the name of a woman who is a whistleblower, who was a mid-level Illuminati working at what they call a regional level. A lot of that material has gone off the net. You have to go to archive.org to find it, but it is all in there.

Svali is the most comprehensive whistle blower ever to come through. There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of documentation. Very specific, naming names, all this stuff. And what she says is that they have had a plan - originally it was to culminate around the year 2020; something like that, possibly later - but the idea being that they want to reveal to the world that they have been the ones pulling the strings.

They want to come out in the open and be welcomed as liberators, just like how the US government thought they would go into Iraq with the shock and awe campaign and then be welcomed as liberators.

Now, this revealing is an orchestrated plan which involves the manipulated financial collapse of the world economy first, followed by the bankers themselves appearing on scene with the financial solution - we will bail you out. But in so doing, they also suddenly pull the rip cord and reveal this subtext that has been in most of the movies that you have seen and loved throughout your life; for they have secretly been installing all the different aspects of their spiritual philosophy, and they believe it’s a philosophy of enlightenment.

They believe that when you learn to behave this way that you become enlightened. Their perspective is that God is not here because they have been doing all the shenanigans they’ve been pulling for thousands of years and nobody has stopped them. They continue to do it, so they don’t believe there’s a God, other than the one they’ve created.

Bill: This matches closely with what we’ve heard from Leo Zagami. By the time you are watching this, our Leo Zagami interview will be published.

David: That’s very exciting. Nobody’s filmed him before.

Bill: Right. It’s such a labyrinthine story. It’s extremely hard to summarize it. We’ve been warned off parts of this by someone who has contacted us privately with very good intentions. It’s where the strange rail goes. We have to follow this. We’re not going to follow it exclusively.

Kerry: Leo talks about them grooming what is in essence an anti-Christ...

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: ... that is already alive on the planet right now, he says, and they are basically going to be steering this individual who is corruptible and therefore not really a candidate for being a savior of the planet in any way, and yet they’re grooming this person as if they would be a type of a savior.

David: This is a great opportunity to share material that I’ve had in conversation with Dan Burisch about which I have transcribed; I have not published yet.

Now you have to understand; the Rothschild - European side of the Illuminati is Luciferian; and as I’ve said before, the Luciferian philosophy... the idea is they believe that their lineage goes back to Atlantis 10,000 years ago, somewhere around there; and the Christians persecuted the people from the secret tradition; therefore their conclusion is that whoever was thrown out of the Christian pantheon is the good guy.

Bill: Right.

David: So Lucifer is the brightest angel in heaven; therefore, they married the concept of Lucifer with the Egyptian Gods like Osiris, Isis and Horus - the trinity. That’s why we have the Washington monument as an obelisk, that’s the severed phallus of Osiris; you have the Statue of Liberty as Isis, with the rays of light coming off her head; and then the torch which represents the mystery schools and the book which represents the secret mystery teachings.

Bill: That’s exactly what Zagami said.

David: See? All of these things - the Isis/Osiris are the male and female aspects of Lucifer, okay? The eye on top of the pyramid is the eye of Horus; that’s the son of the trinity, just like Jesus in the Christian trinity where you have God the Father, God the Son, and then God the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit being kind of like the feminine. So you see the same reiterations over and over again.

Anyway, they do not think that they are the bad guys. That’s a really important point.

Bill: Exactly.

David: Yeah - well, there are some genuine Satanists out there; but most people don’t ever really think they’re evil.

Bill: Of course.

David: They think they’re on the right side, and in Svali’s testimony you get elaborate statements about how right they felt in what they are doing.

Think about it, okay? All of you people are probably learning about the Illuminati. You’ve been reading about this stuff; you may believe it, you may not believe it. I can tell you this much - doesn’t it make sense that if this group really existed and you look at how successful they have been, they have got the financial system like this, [clenches hand] they’ve got the government, they’ve got the media and there is so much evidence, you have to really struggle not to see it.

You look at the difference between American media and then media in other countries, for example. You look at the difference between what you watch on television, on the news, compared to what this video is telling you. Do you think this video is ever going to air on NBC?

So what this is telling us is that there is something there. In Woodrow Wilson’s famous quote, “Something so organized, so subtle, so watchful, that men dare not speak above a whisper when they speak in condemnation of it.”

Bill: Staggering, yes.

David: So this is real: it exists and it is an organized group, and they feel that they are basically leading us through ignorance such that if they didn’t do what they were doing, we would all kill ourselves. That’s what they honestly believe.

Bill: Yes.

David: They honestly think that we are so ignorant that we need to be enslaved for our own good; and they have espoused this stuff for the longest time. They rub it in your face. Right on the back of the dollar bill, they show you the pyramid; they show you the eye. They even say Annuit Coeptis, which means “God has looked with favor on our beginning”, and Novus Ordo Seclorum, “A new order of ages is born.” They are trying to create an enlightened, illuminated age.

Bill: And everything’s for our good, including mass genocide of 4 billion people.

David: Right. Too many people mean that you’re not going to have any food and everybody’s going to die so why not kill off the undesirable ones.

Bill: Yeah, and we’ll thank them in the end.

David: Right. And they’ll be lauded as these great teachers. Now they do have a spiritual philosophy, which is quite elaborate; that’s another thing people don’t realize. This is not just people getting off on being corrupt bankers, this is a very intense meditation discipline; a philosophy which has elaborate depth and complexity.

Bill: And elaborate rituals.

David: Absolutely, and there’s a philosophy in which you can have meta-physical ability, because you’re basically stealing energy. You’re stealing energy through sacrifice; you’re stealing energy through terrorizing people and that’s real, and we all do it.

You see, that’s the other thing; it’s like the Illuminati is just an externalization of what we are all doing to each other, and if we stop doing this to each other and ourselves then they’re going to lose their power; and that’s what’s happening. That’s one of the things that I think is so important to realize - is that the one thing they can’t handle is the exposure; and the game is already over.

It’s basically common knowledge now on the internet that these guys are out there. All the secrets are coming unwound, all of their companies are coming unwound.

I was getting dreams back in the late ‘90s telling me that these guys are going to fall apart because they’re fighting with each other, and that gets back to the Burisch thing. The Rockefeller side, the US side - the neo-Conservatives, okay? They are basically fundamentalist Christians, they’re not Luciferian; and that’s a really important point. People look at people like George W. Bush and they look at Cheney and they look at the neocons and they say, “Oh my God, they’re all Lucifer worshipping Satanists!”

That’s not true. Bush’s side is fundamentalist Christian and that’s true. That’s what they actually believe. That’s part of why they’ve allied with Israel because they have a strong allegiance. However, Israel and that whole side has taken the same play book that the Illuminati are using. They’re doing the same tricks; they’re pulling the same stunts.

But getting back to your thing about the antichrist and what you said Zagami was saying, which mirrors what Svali was saying - Burisch tells me that there is sort of this relationship between the Illuminati, which is the Europeans; the Majestic Twelve, which is the UFO, or was the UFO division of the Rockefeller side.

Then there is something called the Committee of the Majority which is kind of where they meet together, and there’s the agreement of the ‘don’t talk, don’t tell’ policy of the Committee of the Majority - that the Illuminati will never mention anything Luciferian in any of the meetings; and that as long as they don’t make any attempt to try and put their philosophy out openly, they will not be bothered.

Furthermore, deliberate efforts have been made by the Bush/Rockefeller side to ensure that it is impossible for a singular world leader to ever emerge, specifically to throw off the possibility of the Illuminati/Antichrist world leader prophecies from ever coming true.

So you have to understand - the Rockefeller side honestly believes they are on the side of Christianity and good. The only way they can fight these guys is to use the same dirty tricks they do, and they honestly believe they are at war with the devil; that they are at war with Lucifer.

So this is the stuff that is going on. Now what’s ironic about this is that they are both using the same negative stuff.

Kerry: Yeah, I appreciate what you’re saying, but on some level you also have ‘Skull and Bones’, which is using the same Luciferian rituals. You’ve got ‘Bohemian Grove’, where a lot of these people are going. And they have Luciferian rituals and sacrificial demonstrations...

David: That’s true.

Kerry: ... some of which are supposedly actual. So there is this running through both of these sides.

David: Right. Dan had said there are dirty coins on each side.

Kerry: Exactly. I mean there are good Christians, if you want to call them that, within the Rockefeller contingent. Whether or not the Bushes are actually falling into that category, I sincerely doubt, all right? We cannot know exactly what’s going on and we cannot divide up these particular players as to their loyalties, but I think it would be a gross generalization to say that the Rockefellers are over here on the fundamentalist Christian side, and the others are over here on the Luciferian side.

There is definitely this line going through, and there is also something to be said; because it all does go back to some degree to Crowley and before that to Egypt - some of the symbolism is absolutely valid. I mean when you get down to Horus, Isis and Osiris, there’s positive symbolism in there as well...

David: Sure.

Kerry: ... that doesn’t have the Luciferian taint to it necessarily, but it is about ying and yang; it’s another way of explaining the secrets of the universe. What it comes down to is that a lot of these principles have been subverted - in other words, you can talk about sacrifice. I mean, there was sacrificing in the temples in South America in early religions because they felt that it was going to help their crops to grow, etc. etc - fertility goddesses and all of this. There were blood sacrifices, there were things of this nature.

But what happens is human beings are interpreting these concepts literally. In other words, the idea behind them, the secrets behind a lot of Illuminati literature is about enlightenment, true enlightenment; enlightenment through activating the kundalini and uniting the chakras.

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: These are the positive sides of this concept. The trouble is that it’s subverted and it is made literal. In other words, with Christ in the Roman Catholic faith you eat the bread and this is the blood of Christ you drink the blood of Christ - this is symbolic, okay? They don’t mean literally go out and drink blood but, unfortunately, you get these Luciferians that are literally trying - you know, they will go out and drink blood. So they will take it literally.

This gets back to consciousness is king; because what they miss is that it’s a mental process. It’s a symbolic process - that is to stimulate the movement of the spiritual energy into the right directions, and this is through symbolism and through the mating of the opposites and the union of the opposites. It’s quite esoteric and it takes a great deal of study to begin to understand.

Bill: To bridge over and cross reference into one of our other recent interviews with Richard Hoagland - here he is saying that in order to understand the space program and the secret space program, you’ve got to understand that there are three factions who basically worked in various degrees of alliance to create this whole thing. There are the Nazis, the masons and the magicians. We ran out of time and tape. We didn’t get to talk to him about the magicians. We’re going to go back and get that story.

But here, we go back to another part of the conversation we had over dinner. We were talking about Hitler and the channeled information that the [inaudible] and the [inaudible] societies got about the Nazi discs. They were very real. Basically at the bottom of the whole Nazi agenda you’ve got magic; and magic, just as you were saying Kerry, is like the surgeon’s knife; it can be used to kill or cure.

Kerry: Right.

David: Thirty-third degree Masonry has the Palladian Rite, which is where you become the glove of Lucifer.

Bill: When we’re talking about magic we’re talking about applied consciousness power as something that is hierarchically senior to the physical universe - something that all spiritual disciplines recognize; but then it’s like one’s conscious intention behind that that determines how you use all this stuff. And, of course, what the Illuminati, if I understand it right, have been doing for generations, is they’ve been keeping us all in our box by saying all of this is nonsense - we are just meat bodies, we only live once. Consciousness is not king at all, consciousness is just some kind of evolving property of matter, which is categorically untrue.

David: I can’t completely agree with that. That’s what they want the slave race to think. But they understand what they call radiant mind energy very well, and they understand that by enslaving people you harness their radiant mind energy, and it makes you more powerful.

Bill: I would completely concur with that - absolutely.

David: So they very much do believe in this stuff and they use it and they also want us to stay dumb so that we feed them energy.

Bill: And to go back to another story in the UFO community - just give me sixty seconds on this because this is just an important little insert here - we can play this in the video. Bill Burns who interviewed Admiral George Hoover of the Department of Naval Intelligence before he died, was able to get on record from him that one of the biggest secrets... once again, going back into the UFO field... okay, so you’ve got Roswell; so you’ve got a crashed disc, so you’ve got aliens or you’ve got extra-terrestrial or extra-temporal visitors of some kind; it’s like, what’s the big deal here?

Well, where this all goes and where the questions lead, and where it starts to get uncomfortable and where the line gets drawn about where the authorities do not want this to get out, is that the secret is that we have tremendous power and we do not realize our power; and this is the biggest secret, because the authorities are frightened... they’re scared!

But if human beings were really able to access their power then the genie is really out of the bottle; they would lose their hold over us...

Kerry: Absolutely!

Bill: ... and they would never be able to get their hold back; and therefore that’s why there is this multi-faceted operation to dumb us down, to keep us entertained with reality shows and baseball games.

David: Let me make another point – it’s so important. If you are writing about the Illuminati, if you’re reading about the Illuminati or the ruling elite or whatever you want to call it and you’re afraid of them and you’re angry at them, they win - they win!

Bill: And that’s straight out of the myth of Star Wars. It’s like when Darth Vader is goading Luke Skywalker, like “Go on, feel your anger...”

David: Feel your hate.

Bill: Exactly, feel your hate. Come over to the Dark Side.

David: So, the idea being that when you are afraid of their power and you’re trying to sound the alarm, you’re actually worshipping them, you’re actually worshipping them...

Bill: Because you are playing their game at their level.

David: ... because you are buying into the belief that they have all this power. Look, they’re falling apart - the wheels are falling off the chariot! Everybody knows about this. Svali revealed that the number of Illuminati in our country is less than 1 in 100 people. I mean it’s like 1% of the population.

Bill: That’s still a lot of people.

David: Yes, but when you consider the fact that most of the people who are in the Illuminati do not want to be in the Illuminati - there would be a mass exodus, a mass revolt, if they could get out, but they can’t because you are punished with death if you leave.

So the thing is, there’s a lot of family out there. They don’t really want to do this, and my guidance has said for so long that when the time comes, they will not have the people to hold the guns if they try to do this, because mostly what they would need also is the cooperation of the police force.

And here’s another thing that drives me nuts. People write about all the slave camps; that there’s all these slaves camps in the US, and they’re going to herd everybody into the concentration camps, electromagnetic mind control and everything. Look, you’re not going to... and even if they say, “Oh well, they’re going to bring in the United Nations troops because it’s not going to be American cops that are going to do it.” - look, if you are reading this stuff and you’re worried about this stuff, you're worshipping the Illuminati.

That is worship; you are paying fealty with fear because that’s all they need. Hitler’s quote: “I do not care for the allegiance of the people; all we ask for is their fear.”

That’s all they want. Because when you have fear - when you fear them, they win, because you’re feeding them energy. It’s like a battery - it’s a real energy power source for them.

Bill: Let me ask a question here. Where do you draw the line between triggering people’s fear with alarmist exaggerated rhetoric - and here I’m sort of putting words into your mouth, because this is what you might say of some websites including some of the information that we report - and legitimately informing people so that they can take their power into their hands, because they know what’s going on and are therefore better equipped?

David: Absolutely! I’m not saying that reading about them or hearing or watching this video is worship; what I’m saying is the attitude which you hold in your mind as you read about this is so important. If your attitude is, “Oh my gosh, it’s all looking cloudy and gloomy and we’re screwed, and these guys have got us over the barrel, and it’s a full proof plan and it’s never going to be defeated.” - that’s when you’ve lost it.

However, it’s very important to educate yourself about the fact that they exist, and the reason why is the same thing that you read in Dale Carnegie’s book, ‘Winning Friends and Influencing People’. Everybody on death row says, “Well, you know, they deserved it. The people I killed deserved it.” The mass murderers don’t say they are evil - everybody rationalizes what they do.

So they are nothing more than a projected, exteriorized reflection of what fundamental imbalance there is in the planet. Somebody’s got to come down here and do that mirror for us, and that is the job that they have; and it is a sacred responsibility.

Bill: And that goes back to what you said before we started.

David: Yeah, they are quite literally here to be our teachers. They are here to show us the parts that we don’t want to see. And so the best way to study about the Illuminati is to realize how the negative self-talk that they have and the way that they rationalize everything they do... it’s something we all do. We all do it.

Kerry: Okay, and I think that’s fine, and that’s absolutely legitimate what you are saying. What is important is to talk about the arc of learning - the learning curve that people are going to go through when they encounter the notions of evil and how it manifests; whether through the Illuminati, through people they know; through what they recognize in themselves as the dark side, the shadow side; basically there is a curve.

In other words, people need to be made aware of a lot of the secrets that are going on. I mean – that’s what Camelot is all about.

David: Yeah.

Kerry: Our premise is; once they become aware, they do go through stages - okay, fear could be one of them. There is no reason that people have to stay in one of those stages; there has to be recognition. There has to be an understanding of the kind of fear that’s possible, and then a movement beyond fear to something that involves awareness of your own power; awareness of the light and the Godhead, or however you want to term it.

I mean, basically, there’s an evolution that you can’t ignore and you can’t avoid in each of these people who are going to go through awareness of these things.

David: Yeah, I like that quote, “fear is an absence of knowing.” And so fear is a call to study, it’s a call for knowledge; it’s a call to know what you don’t already know.

Kerry: I mean, if you talk about concentration camps being built in this country, it’s almost ludicrous; because what you are actually not recognizing is, and I’ve talked to Bill about this in the past, basically that people are already in prisons. They go to work 8 hours or longer everyday, their minds are numbed by the television they watch when they get home at night, and then they go to sleep. That’s it!

You know, most people’s lives are completely managed, and they allow this to happen. They are walking through their lives; so why put them in a camp, when they are going to rebel? They actually might wake up if you threw them into a camp.

David: Right, keep them paying taxes.

Kerry: The fact of the matter is that they are basically like sheep. Now what’s happening is they are waking up, okay, and we at Camelot are hopefully part of this process. You (David) are part of this process. The internet is an incredible tool and has linked up the universal mind in so many ways. You know, all the connections are being made. Young people are waking up every day. I mean, it’s an amazing power but, at the same time, to say that the idea of prison camps has any kind of bearing on people’s lives - it’s ludicrous on a certain level.

Bill: I want to ask you two a couple of questions here - not because I am representing a diehard view of my own, but because it’s our job between the three of us to represent questions that people watching this will have. So pardon the euphemism, but I'm going to play devil’s advocate.

Okay, here we go. Now I've not physically seen this myself, but I'm reliably informed by people I trust that these prison camps exist. They're not fiction. There is something going on here that’s just...

David: Daniel told me that the superdomes in every city were designed for that purpose, and that’s what they used in Katrina.

Bill: And that could have been a test.

Secondly, we have been told ourselves by sources who reported to us privately that as far as they are aware, certain bioweapons have already been deployed. And we don’t have all the details, we don’t have all the dates - we have some of the locations. This is the kind of thing that’s completely unverifiable. Because you can’t see it, you know. You can’t go around with a movie camera and film a virus moving around.

Kerry: We could maybe shoot the sky and see the chemtrails. And certainly that’s a great way to distribute.

Bill: Whatever they may or may not be.

David: There’s a very interesting point on that.

Bill: But here we’re talking about what some people say is another scare. In our essay that we wrote - at the time it was the best information that we had - called, 2008: The Future is Now, where we laid out in the most intelligent summary way that we could, what we felt the threats were, we debated them - is ‘Planet X’ real in terms of a threat?

Kerry: Now, I’m not disagreeing with the fact that they may be building some prison camps. There are factions with all kinds of notions about what may happen in the future. You have to say, why are they building? Maybe panic is their big fear.

Bill: Prison camps seem to be real. The deployment of bioweapons seems to be a reality according to information we have privately received from several credible sources. It seems to be real that there's legitimate cause for concern that there may be an attack on Iran with God knows what knock-on effects that are either calculated or uncalculated.

It seems to me that there are things to be concerned about and that we should responsibly make ourselves aware of - and at the same time, you are saying that if we give into this and start focusing on this and start putting a lot of attention of this negativity, then we are actually falling straight into the trap of disempowering ourselves because we're falling for the Illuminati agenda. That’s me putting words into your mouth.

David: Okay, right.

Bill: Where do we make that balance? Where do we draw that line? Do we say, “there are no threats - everything’s cool, everything’s fine; no bio weapons, flu’s not going to get me. I’m not going to get nuked, all my money’s going to be safe in the bank. I can live in an earthquake zone and close to the coast and nothings ever going to go wrong with the geotectonics of the world or the rising sea levels and everyone’s cool and there are no problems.”

I don’t believe that, and very few people listening to this now will say everything’s cool, because everything is not cool. If it’s not cool, what is it?

David: Well, everything is interconnected; and the biggest secret of all, to me, is the extent to which individuality is an illusion. Individuality is a particular construct that we, as the One Infinite Creator, have created for ourselves to experience apparent duality, apparent separation.

When you start to really grasp the fact that you and the other people around you and the environment around you is all conscious - it’s all alive, it’s all one; it’s all part of the same universal substance and it has a purposefully belief-driven existence. It has an existence that seeks to reunify. The Creator essentially gave us the greatest gift we could ever ask for which is our free will.

The universe fragmented into untold trillions and trillions and trillions of different pieces, apparent pieces, each of which has its own free will to make the choices it wants to make. So we have the gift to pick up a gun and shoot someone with it - that’s our gift. If we want to do that, we can.

We have the gift to design ethno-specific bioweapons and release them, if that’s what we wanted to do. However, if it is not invited, it will never have success beyond a certain level and that’s why I say to you, they talk about this stuff, but where is the proof of a virus that is wiping out the entire planet? It hasn’t ever happened.

Now they do have a major problem with AIDS, I’m not denying that; but what I’m also saying is that these weapons have a limited range of effectiveness because your own consciousness interfaces with biology and this can be extensively documented and proven and has been.

Dr. William Broad, for example, did studies in which he has people sitting in a room with a closed circuit television camera on. They don’t even realize that the camera's in there, it’s hidden. Then they got another room where somebody is looking at you on a television camera. He would have the person in the room looking at you - stare at you for a while, and then look away.

The person in the other room with the hidden camera... they have you wired up to this thing that measures the galvanic skin response, how much electricity you have in your skin. During the times you're being stared at, your skin starts crackling with energy. And when you're not being stared at, it doesn’t.

Now think about somebody like... a paparazzi glamorous queen, and I won’t name names because then it will make it look like I’m targeting one, but anybody out there in the news. And look at how these men and women will go so far out of their way to try to get that attention.

And when they can’t get it, they become drug addicted, and their lives just go into a tailspin because they're constantly seeking that stimulation. If you don’t think that there is a real high that they're getting out of being those public figures and having all those people stare at them... one person staring at you on a closed circuit television fires off your skin.

Bill: So connect this up to prison camps.

David: So... yeah, it’s all interconnected.

Bill: OK.

David: This consciousness... when you feel fear towards someone who is oppressing you, your fear shoots energy back into their field. When you feel fear you are shooting energy out of your field. When you feel love and trust, you are building energy from the cosmos to yourself. This has a direct effect on biological healing.

I have an interview that I’m going to air pretty soon with Dr. Glen Rein in which he proved on a microbiological level with molecular genetics, that the DNA molecule changes it’s form based on the energy that you send to it with your consciousness; and when you send the emotion of gratitude - that was the one word that he found was the most important one.

Gratitude, more than anything else, heals damaged DNA. You can kill DNA by what’s called a ‘heat fix’ and it unwinds; and by the sense of loving gratitude, the DNA rewinds and comes back together - literally.

Kerry: This also works out to Dan Burisch’s ‘Lotus’ because we watched on film the healing, the thing creating itself. You got the sick cell over here; you’ve got the healthy cell over here and you see this energy sent through the crystal using light, and literally going over to the sick cell and patching it up - I mean it’s an amazing phenomenon!

And so basically you’re talking about that energy can be attracted or repelled.

David: Yeah. Dan and I spoke together at Caltech. It was mostly his event - you guys were there so you saw this - and that was the first time that he aired video footage of what he’s actually seen.

Now Dan’s contribution to all this science is to actually have film footage of how it works and seeing these little micro-wormholes open which look like little donuts; little portals, and how this energy floats in.

Now, imagine this for a second - imagine that you were infected with a virus - and what did I just teach you about your DNA? We do know that when you feel anger, your DNA gets damaged. The DNA can unwind and get damaged when you have the anger. When you feel love and gratitude the sick DNA actually rewinds and becomes healthy again. So even if you did have a virus, the extent to which your consciousness controls the body is all important.

So what’s happening is - when you have these countries where people are living in such absolute desperation that there is really nothing to hope for - there is no gratitude, there’s no positive attitude, it’s very difficult for them to fight off these viruses because their consciousness is not repairing the body. But, you could very well be carrying a disease and not have it ever affect you.

And again, another point so fundamental that we have to keep coming back to is that there are very, very powerful entities, and your own Henry Deacon - this is a logical leap that I am amazed they don’t make in the inside - he describes energies and powers and beings that are powerful enough to generate the moon and put it in its position. Why would they not also think that these entities would be powerful enough to stop an epidemic from turning into an epidemic unless it was what we needed?

Why would they not think that these entities would deflect a coronal mass ejection from the sun if it was not needed for us to go through that?

Bill: Okay, I’ll leave that as a rhetorical question.

David: There’s a tag to that, and the tag is this - in one sense you could say that I am an ambassador for these higher forces, because I’ve made contact with them. Extensive telepathic contact documented 500 client readings. All this evidence that shows that there are real beings out there who have a real effect on what’s happening here; and these positive forces, from my understanding, are guiding us through an evolution on the planet, and they basically want to make sure that it doesn’t break. They want to make sure that things stay as clean as they possibly can right up to 2012 which is when this apparent dimensional shift event happens, and so there is a very deliberate effort being made to thwart and to offset those kinds of negative future possibilities.

That’s why, for example, almartinraw.com had this whole whistleblower thing which came out about how the Bush administration was planning to put in fake weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and they even said it on the news, remember that?

“We know there’s 10,000 gallons of anthrax and da-da-da - it’s right there in Tikrit, around Baghdad.” Well, that’s because that’s where they were going to put it. But then what happens is somebody else finds out their going to do this fake thing, and then they go and frag the team that does it and kill them by friendly fire. And now they’re out there somewhere, and nobody knows where the hell they are.

So the point is that all these little things keep happening, which appear to be random but they’re guided by higher intelligence to ensure that these bad things don’t happen.

Bill: I still want to bring this down - still playing devil’s advocate here to real practical matters because we get messages practically every day from people who are concerned because they read stuff, and it freaks them out; and there are web sites out there that are very irresponsible, in our view, in their almost deliberate scare-mongery.

David: Absolutely!

Bill: I’m sure you get the same concerns from people who are really, really, quite frightened. We get people and they’re smart people, they’re not dumb people. They’re saying, “Should I be bringing a child into the world now? What do I do with my real estate in Florida? Is my home going to be flooded? Should I leave California? Are there going to be giant earthquakes? This guy Edgar Cayce said a lot of stuff a few years back.”

They say, “Should I be leaving the United States? I hear that a lot of the intelligence community is moving to South America. If George Bush has bought real estate in Paraguay, should I be moving there too, if I’ve got the resources?”

People are asking... we even had somebody who said, “Listen, I’m thinking of emigrating to New Zealand, because I figure there I’d be free from radioactive fallout.”

There are quite a lot of people out there who are getting freaked out by stuff that is almost becoming a kind of meme. You know, like 2012 is coming up soon and we’re all going to die if we’re not lucky. We don’t subscribe to that, but there are people with practical concerns. What do you say to people with real estate in Florida? And it’s a real question.

David: But I want to get to a deeper subtext than one specific point of real estate.

Bill: Okay.

David: Let’s just go there. Let’s just go there. So you fucking die, all right - is that all you think there is to your life? Are you done?

Kerry: No - this is no problem, okay? This is no problem. But even people have accepted - who’ve accepted whether they die or not - but you have a responsibility if you are on the planet to survive.

David: I understand. I understand. But what I am saying is this though - the fact that you are going to die, I am going to die, he is going to die, is scientific fact. We all know it’s going to happen.

Kerry: Except that we - none of us die; I mean it’s an illusion.

Bill: Are you really going to say that to a mother who’s got a three year old child and is worried about her responsibility? We get people talking about this.

David: But I’m leading to a process because I haven’t gotten to the punch line.

Bill: Okay, go on.

David: This is the process - the process is dealing with the fact that you are in a physical body which is mortal; that doesn’t mean that’s who you are. There is plenty of evidence, but there is much more than that.

There are studies of remote-viewing where they go and remote-view a target and while they are remote-viewing the target they’re picking up light; they’re picking up gravitational sensors, and they’re picking up movement sensors in the area that’s being remote-viewed. That’s been proven.

So we have something more, something that goes out of ourselves. We lose a little bit of mass from our body when we go out of body. So, if you can deal with the fact that you are going to die - that your body is going to die, you also have the opportunity to make a choice. If today happened to be the last day you were ever going to be on the planet, would you want to be spending that day in fear and in worry and in terror, or would you want to live your life with the highest integrity and the highest compassion for others and compassion for yourself that you possibly could?

Kerry: But wouldn’t exhibiting that compassion have to do with the fact that if you knew a tsunami was coming today, you would move your children out of harm’s way? In other words, is life a cabaret - shall we go back to Germany right before the fall and just have a cabaret? Shall we drink and party while Rome falls?

I mean the idea of what you are saying is all good. On a spiritual level, I think even some people that are relatively unenlightened could even say to you, “Look, I don’t care if I die, but I want my child to have a shot.” And I think that that is a laudable goal. I think that we basically have to sit here and say, “Look - there is something else.” There is another kind of approach than just saying, “I know I’m not going to die because I’m spirit - I’m light.”

Once you get beyond that, once you can accept that you’ve got to say, “Now what does the future hold - how can I contribute to the future by my actions, by my words by my deeds? You see - how can I make a difference?” And that’s the juncture we really want to talk about here.

David: Right. The point that I was trying to make is simply this – there is no point in living your life in fear. Lincoln’s quote - I live with it all the time because I’m putting out material that could get me killed, right?

Bill: So are we.

David: Absolutely, we all are. I would rather die once at the hands of an assassin then die every day in fear of assassination.

Kerry: I completely agree with that and we think living with courage - if you can’t live everyday with courage, then what’s the point of living? People like us have come to that conclusion or we wouldn’t do what we do. I mean, we throw caution to the wind every day! But the fact of the matter is; I think what people need to hear is, is there something intelligent that I can do towards the future that will create the future for me in a positive way? And for others?

David: Absolutely!

Bill: Still playing devil’s advocate - if you were addressing a group of Jews in Poland in 1938, would you be saying the same thing, saying, “Listen, if you all die horribly, it doesn’t matter - you just come back,” there are a lot of people who would not find that easy to accept.” Or well, do you say, “You know what, maybe you should watch your back – maybe you should leave the country.”

David: Absolutely. If I was in a situation like that in Poland and I had the ability to see into the future and could see that some negative event was coming, I would absolutely do what I could to warn them about what was going to happen.

Bill: You were saying there are going to be no negative events in the future, though.

David: No. What I’m saying is - and this is where you and I have always had the most argument - is that I have had proven to me on multiple levels of redundancy, that so many of the negative prophesies that you see on the internet are simply not going to come true.

Bill: Yeah.

You’re not going to see a pole shift while we are here in the same frequency with the pole shift. There may be a shifting of the earth but at the time that it happens, at least the vast majority of people will not be at the frequency that the shift happens on. There is a changing of energy frequency.

And again, there is such a complex, multi-layered series of proofs for that, and it is my understanding that these higher forces that are guiding each of our lives, every little synchronicity, is another notch that you can use in your belt to prove to you that there is something out there that loves you; that is guiding your life, that wants you to do well, that wants you to be happy, that wants you to succeed. And that connection with your Higher Self will ensure that you don’t end up in the concentration camp - that you don’t end up being tortured, because you listen to that guidance and you are steered by it.

Bill: So is it therefore okay if it happens to somebody else - survival of the most aware? Not survival of the fittest, but survival of the most conscious?

David: No! Look... there are so many places on the planet right now in sorrow and hardship, and it is absolutely a valiant quest for us to go out and to try to do activism work; which is why I donated money to you guys. You guys are answering a five alarm fire bell on the planet and nobody’s sending you any money. I make decent money because I have some products to sell, so I give you guys some of my money because I believe in what you’re doing.

I think everybody should have activism. I think everybody should do something to try and help out. Don’t just sit at home and meditate and think that is going to solve all of your problems.

Bill: It’s that positive pressure that makes a difference.

David: Yeah! And then what happened was within 24 hours that I gave you guys that money, I got the exact same money back - exactly the same amount!

Bill: That’s how it works.

David: So, honestly, when you look at all of the things that have happened in your life that show you that there is more to life than this physical reality... there is such a positive, amazing force out there that wants you to believe that you are protected, that you are being guided, that you will be brought to the right place at the right time. You’ll meet the right people; you’ll hear the message.

And, again, this is all a game of consciousness; it’s all a game of frequency. You maintain your higher, positive awareness and you would magnetize to yourself the things that ensure that you don’t get into that car before it has a crash, that ensure that you don’t get on that plane before it crashes.

Bill: Are you therefore saying that in direct response to people who are sitting and worrying...

David: That’s the worst thing you can do!

Bill: ... is to say to them, “Okay listen, don’t worry about the things on the other side of the world that you can’t do anything about, but go out and do something positive, take some action, make the world a better place, be the change you want to see, do something small and if we all did that, we’d have nothing to worry about.” Is that the kind of thing that you are saying, translated into direct baby-steps for everybody?

David: Pretty close, except I would say you absolutely can and it’s appropriate to feel compassion for the sorrow on the planet. So the people on the other side of the world are you and they are suffering and whatever form you choose to take of your service is a valiant one. What I am saying also is the quote from St. Francis of Assisi, “A single moment of pure consciousness is worth an entire lifetime of good works.”

What we don’t understand in the science which has been kept from us which as you said... Richard Hoagland for example said, that they would rather - they meaning the ruling elite – would rather lose an American city to a nuclear bomb than to give up the science of torsion fields, because the science of torsion fields tells us just what I told you from St. Francis.

The power of a small group of people – 7000 people meditating together reduces global terrorism and fatalities and war and shooting each other by 75% - three out of four of those incidences don’t happen. That means that three out of four people that would steal the food, don’t steal the food. That means that three out of four people who would die of malnutrition, don’t.

So it’s all about the frequency, and it sounds really preposterous; and that is why we have to break people into it slowly, it gives you step by step through the incremental process in realizing that the consciousness field itself is humanity.

We are like cells in a body. We are part of the group mind, and what thoughts go through our mind effect other people’s minds, and especially our attitude. It’s like if the temperature in the room here suddenly gets really hot, we’re going to get more irritable. If it gets really hot in here your going to start sweating, you’re going to get antsy; but then if somebody turns on the air conditioning - well, all of a sudden - ahhh... thank God! - right?

So when these planetary changes are happening, that is like the temperature going up and you are actually seeing it as physical temperature increase - not just the earth but through the whole solar system, okay?

However, when we meditate, we are basically taking that raw energy that’s turning into heat, which makes people angry - they get heated up, they get hot under the collar, they get red; they see red - all these colors and all these temperatures associated with what’s actually an energetic frequency.

When you meditate, when you chill out, when you play it cool, all these other metaphors for cooling it down - ‘chill out’ - you’re actually processing other people’s energy. You’re processing other people’s karma. You do your own work and you take some of the burden off of everyone else, so we are actually healing the earth, we’re healing each other and it has a direct radiant effect on the universe around us - and that is the most powerful thing!

If people learn that they can sit at home and pay nothing and simply do their process and get in touch with their creative spark and become the Creator by creating and enjoying yourself and getting in your passion - follow your bliss - you are healing the world. Of course, you should also couple that with physical activism, going out and doing something, even if it is just donating money to someone.

But get out there and make a difference; it has a frequency consciousness effect that is very tangible, very real - and I know you believe that, [gestures to Kerry] and I know you believe that. [gestures to Bill]

Bill: Yeah.

Kerry: Absolutely. Well, I think on some level there’s also a place which people can get to where they can understand that; be a creator, do the best they can do. But at the same time, there are people, and there are events that are going to transpire that are going to be “negative,” okay? Some people are drawing experiences to themselves and will continue to do so and will do this for a learning purpose.

David: I agree.

Kerry: Okay? So basically what I’m saying here is that you can’t just say, go out and be active and so on, because there are people who have already... in other words, we’re not just entering the game today, all right?

David: Right.

Kerry: The game has been going on for quite some time this time around, all right?

David: Sure.

Kerry: And that’s in a sense what 2012 and beyond... and again we don’t want to narrow it down to one year.

David: No.

Kerry: We’re actually talking about a span of time under which we on Earth are undergoing a transformation and a possible heightening of consciousness everywhere. But at the same time, as consciousness expands and as people begin to grow - as you said, there are birth pains, all right?

David: Right.

Kerry: A lot of people are going to be experiencing the breakup of relationships. Time is speeding up; events are speeding up around them. There will be earth changes - there will be birthing pains, all right? People need to understand that what we’re talking about is not just a smooth transition. You must be sensitive to the notion that people are going to have challenges that they maybe even never encountered before.

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: But it’s what you bring to the challenges at this time, and hopefully this kind of a discussion - opening up discussions like this around the planet - for preparing for something that could be negative, for dealing with something that may be negative; whether it’s a tsunami, a possible tsunami. Whether coastlines, as they say... Boriska, you know, this indigo child, is saying - 2009, the coastlines are going to be inundated by water, okay? This may be global phenomena - we don’t know what causes it, he doesn’t even remember. At one time, supposedly, he did.

But what we’re saying is, we’re getting evidence; we’re getting... people are having dreams. I myself have had many dreams. There are futures - possible futures, some of which will happen, some may not. Some may be mitigated. Right now, we’ve got the middle of the United States inundated by water - torrential rains. Tragedies happen, and that’s part of the learning experience.

David: Right.

Kerry: We are sensate beings. We are here to experience, and I think that needs to be not forgotten, okay, in the movement of what we are talking about.

David: Sure. It’s very, very intense work. And because we’re so close to this quantum shift, you’re basically gonna keep on working. You’re not gonna really rest for very long. You’re gonna keep on having new challenges, new experiences.

I want to share with you something that happened to me in Japan. This man, Mr. Noda, had taken me around to some of the shrines, and we were driving in the car for 16 hours a day, and I was very, very tired.

Now of course, in Japan, you’ve got the driver’s side which is what we would call the passenger side. So I’m in what feels like the driver’s side of the car, because in America it would be. I’m trying to rest with the strap against my head as the car is going along. [David acts out resting his head against seatbelt strap, bouncing gently to mimic car moving] And I hear this voice in my head, which for me is not schizophrenia; [Kerry laughs] it’s very normal. And it says, [loud voice] “Open up your eyes and look at Mr. Noda right now!”

Kerry: Oh my god...

David: Right? [David gestures pushing voice away, not waking up] Whatever... [loud voice again] “Open up your eyes and look at Mr. Noda right now!”

Well, by this time, it’s screaming, okay? So I opened up my eyes and looked over, and Mr. Noda goes like this... [David pantomimes driver with hands on wheel, eyes closed, and head drifting backward into sleep] He’s driving the car like 90 miles an hour on the highway and we’re speeding up to this car in front of us, right? [David leans over and shakes Bill’s arm] “Wake up, dude, wake up!”

And, I mean that’s it; I would have been dead!

We would have had a head-on... you know, the speed of our car compared to the one in front of us - and the way that my neck was resting on the seatbelt, my neck would have been snapped instantly! As soon as we hit that car, I would have been dead, and I would have been dead within seconds, right? So what I’m trying to say is... that’s a good incentive to make contact with your higher self!

Kerry: Absolutely.

David: Because I do believe that if you can allow yourself to move with the organic flow of what your emotions are telling you, you’re getting more and more experiences. Trust to your guidance; trust your intuition. Trust your gut feeling because the gut feeling won’t let you down.

Bill: Yes.

David: So, yeah, if there was gonna be some kind of disaster and I’m supposed to stay on the planet, I won’t be there when it happens. I’ll be somewhere else...

Kerry: Right.

David: ... because, look, if it could happen for me down to the second, practically, where my neck was about to be snapped on my own seat belt, and it didn’t happen... now I’m a special case because I’ve got this kind of voice that I can hear. However, it was happening for years and years and years before that.

Kerry: Well I want to say, I don’t think you’re a special case - I mean no offense.

David: We all hear...

Kerry: I mean, I think there are a million stories out there...

David: Oh yeah!

Kerry: ... of people - you know, you can hear about them everywhere - where people have heard a voice in their head that warned them of some disaster or some danger to them, to their children, to whatever - and saved their lives. I mean [snaps fingers] instantaneous things.

So, I mean this does go on, whether the voice is your higher self, a friendly alien, [laughs] or, you know, the ghost of your mother, or whatever. I mean, it doesn’t really matter what you assign it.

Bill: And it’s not always a voice. I mean, it isn’t always an audible voice.

Kerry: Absolutely.

Bill: I have my own equivalence of that kind of story.

As you know, I’m a mountaineer. I’ve spent a lot of time on mountains and never even had a scratch, and I’ve had the most extraordinary circumstances and situations. And sometimes it’s just like you just know what to do now. It’s not verbal, it’s not audible; it’s just like, now get down, because there’s gonna be a storm... and it’s a clear sky, you know?

Half an hour later, all hell’s breaking loose. There’s no data to base that information on. You just knew what to do, in exactly the same way as the Andaman Islanders before the tsunami. They just knew that they needed to get to higher ground; not one of them was hurt.

David: There are so many stories of people in their car...

Bill: All this kind of stuff.

David: ... and you just happen to hit the brake and you steer and you’re like... [gestures, “what?” not knowing how it happened]... and you manage to avoid the accident.

Bill: That’s happened to me too.

David: Oh yeah.

Bill: And animals know what to do. Animals don’t hear voices, animals just know.

David: Yeah. That’s true. [Bill laughs]

Bill: So we have that capacity too. And what I would say - and this is in full resonance with what you’re saying here, and also echoing what Kerry said - it’s not like you’re a special case.

I think it’s unusual for you to hear an audible voice, but for anyone for whom their intuition has worked for them reliably in the past, then listen to that voice; whether it’s a real voice or a metaphorical voice; because if you’ve got a very strong feeling there is action you need to take - if you need to sell your stocks, if you need to sell your house or take a loss on your house, or move here or do that or not be with this person, or whatever it is that you’re “hearing” you have to do, then do it, because you’re probably right.

And probably in these times more than any others, those messages that are coming to you - in which ever individual way those message do come to you - they’re likely to be coming through loud and clear.

David: Synchronicity.

Bill: Yeah. What’s probably the case is that everyone, each in their own way, is going to be getting this kind of information, and then it’s our responsibility whether to pick it up, how to interpret it; whether to choose to act on it or not with our own free will. We have that capacity; and if we’re not confident in having that capacity, then there are ways to learn it, and start now.

David: Right. And I’m saying even to the point like if a bomb goes off right next to you and a big chunk of concrete flies past your head and you get the impetus to tie your shoe...

Kerry: Exactly.

David: ... I mean, that’s how fast the thing was with Mr. Noda - it was seconds.

Bill: Right.

David: So the point is, there is something out there that loves you and protects you; and the more that you listen to the things that your conditioning would tell you , “Oh that’s just superstitious.” - it’s okay to believe. It’s okay to believe because you have the evidence, and now is the time where the energy is rising so much that - as you were saying - more than ever, the ordinary person is getting these things happening. They don’t understand it; they’re not able to process it, but it just keeps happening with greater and greater redundancy

Bill: Yes

David: And [addressing Bill] like you were saying, I think that if somebody’s gonna be guided to sell their house at a loss, you’re gonna get a lot of synchronicity happening. It will happen around the times that you’re thinking the right thought, the thought that’s the right decision to make.

Kerry: Absolutely. Synchronicity is a great sign!

David: It’s wonderful.

Kerry: I mean, ‘reading the signs’ is really important and that becomes... that’s a skill that you can teach yourself. I would also say that, you know, opening your channel to your higher self is done through meditation more than anything else.

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: Every person has that potential within their own body to open those channels and to get connected with their higher self and with God. So, that’s going to be the key in the coming days. It’s not following us, it’s not following David; as brilliant as he may be. It’s basically following your own inner dictates, following that inner voice that tells you what it is you need to do and when; and absolutely, you know, following it to the letter.

Bill: Yeah. The way I rephrase that for myself is to advise people, “Don’t be followers, be students.

David: Right.

Bill: Don’t listen to anything that anybody says, including what we’re saying now, you know? Be your own authority; learn to trust your own power.

David: Take what resonates with you.

Bill: Yes.

David: Throw out the rest.

Kerry: Listen to your heart more than anything else. It’s really your intelligence blended with your heart, and there is an intelligence there that will really be able to interpret what’s going on with you. And resonance is the perfect word - if something resonates with you, there’s a reason; you need to listen to find out what that reason might be.

David: And you reminded me of something that I was gonna say before, and I lost the track of it; which is, everybody sends me these emails and they’re saying, “What should I do?” They’re so concerned about they want to do the right spiritual thing - they want to make the right decision. Should I go here or should I go there - because one of them is the right one and one of them is the wrong one. Should I stay with my partner or should I leave my partner - because one of them is the right one and one of them is the wrong one. And that’s not actually how it works.

Bill: Correct.

David: My understanding of the spiritual path is that the most important thing you can do is make a decision.

Bill: Yes.

David: Not that one is right and the other one is wrong, but that you go through a process of analyzing your opportunities in one direction or the other based on what you think is going to happen, and make an informed choice about what you want to do. There are multiple paths that can happen that will be beneficial for you and spiritually uplifting for you.

Bill: Yes.

David: So you don’t need to go try to get a palm reading or a Tarot card reading or a psychic reading because if you go and blindly follow what somebody else says because it the “right thing to do,” then you guarantee you’re gonna have to repeat that lesson.

The best thing you can do when you are presented with a tough challenge is to figure out for yourself what you want, because that’s what your higher self is waiting for. Your higher self is saying, “What do you want? What is your bliss? What is your passion?” Because the universe does ultimately say, “Your wish is my command.” - that is true.

But we also have to differentiate between our conscious desire and our higher self’s desire, because we’re all here for a purpose; and there are some choices that will align us with our purpose faster and some that will get us more off the path. And everybody says, “Well, but then the one that aligns with my purpose is the one I want to do, because I want to do the right one. And you’ve gotta tell me what that is.”

No!

Bill: No.

David: If it’s aligning with your higher self, you will feel it. Like Kerry was saying, it’s a resonance - it comes from your heart.

Bill: It gives you energy. This is the clue - this is what I always advise people - if you’re not sure whether you should do this or you should do that, then whichever one gets you most excited, whichever one gives you the most energy; whichever one gets you talking to your friends about it most, whichever one makes you internally visually more active about envisioning possible futures; maybe this and maybe that, then that gives you big clues. Would you agree?

David: Absolutely!

Kerry: Yeah, also I would say that, again, it’s the experience that matters. That’s what you take away from here as a being. So basically in a sense, making mistakes is the good thing you could do; as long as you make them wholeheartedly and you go into it fully and completely. Because you will learn, and you will never have to repeat that learning - it will become a part of you if you go through the experience. If you do not follow yourself, ultimately you will have to come back and follow yourself out.

David: Absolutely.

Kerry: So that’s what you do. You need to go through the experience, not around it. Not avoid it. Not intellectualize it and try to find, you know, some perfect solution. But no, it actually needs to come through all of you to follow yourself out. It’s all about knowing yourself, and that’s what self-realization is all about. You realize yourself, and you only realize yourself through action and living with the consequences of those actions.

David: The authenticity of your experience... If you are authentic with yourself, you don’t have to turn on the TV when something painful happens. You don’t have to run to the internet and go look on a website when you’ve just been yelled at. You can recognize that it’s okay to stand up for yourself. You don’t have to be the doormat. That’s part of what this whole planetary awakening is about, like with the Illuminati. It’s basically all about the abusive parent and the abused child metaphor, right?

Bill: Yeah.

David: That we’re standing up to our parents. We’re saying, “Look, you can’t rule me anymore, I’m gonna make my own choices - I’m gonna live my life the way I want to live it.”

Bill: You’re talking about the populace and the Illuminati on a societal scale.

David: Yes.

Bill: The archetypal co-dependent relationship.

David: Yes. It’s the children waking up to the fact that the parents have been abusive, and that now is the time for them to grow up and to take the mantle of responsibility of adulthood. We are basically spiritual children moving as a planet into spiritual adulthood; and in the absence of spiritual adults, we have corrupted father figures and mother figures who are not actually looking out for our best good, except insofar as how they’re mirroring our collective shadow back to ourselves and enslaving us so that we will learn.

Like the Buddhist saying, right? You’re sitting there and the master comes up to you and he whacks you on the head with a stick.

Bill: Yes, yes.

David: What is the spiritual meaning of this? [laughter] And the next day, he whacks you on the head with a stick. “Wonder what this means? It’s gotta mean something because he’s so wise; he’s so powerful.” And he hits you again. So finally you get tired of that, [David acts out reaching up to stop the stick coming down] saying, “Dammit. I’m not ...” [David doing voice of Oriental master] “Ahh, now you are learning.” [laughter]

So that’s the basis of what’s happening to us - we’re learning to respect ourselves. Self respect is the core of getting past addiction. Addiction is fundamentally lack of self respect. We don’t love ourselves; we don’t embrace ourselves, and we don’t love ourselves enough to take the time to be with our feelings.

If you don’t love yourself, then your feelings are alien to you. The bad feelings are something that you just want to push away. It’s like, “No, no, no, I just wanna stay over here where the light is bright and the grass is green and I‘m happy and I’m...”

But guess what? The more you try to do that, the more this little tiny circle is surrounded by an ocean of shit, right? And in order to really actualize your potential, you gotta realize that that ocean of shit is yourself, and all you have to do is start looking at it and the light burns away all the problems. It might come through some emotional release and some pain, but it does happen; and that’s really what’s happening on the whole planet.

Like your interview with Fulford... I mean, he’s said these things before on Rense and so forth. But he has such a positive view, because it’s true! We have more than enough financial resources on this planet - if they were not being siphoned off to our corrupted parents - that we could end poverty; we could end hunger!

Kerry: Absolutely.

David: We could end the energy crisis; we have the free energy, we have the antigravity. We have all these technologies. When we learn about the consciousness science, we learn about our interconnectedness.

Even if 2012 doesn’t mean anything, the prophecy will still be fulfilled just by what we have and what we can know - that’s such an important point!

Even if there is no dimensional shift, it is a de facto equivalent of it by virtue of what is waiting for us as soon as we lift that clamp of planetary control that has been clamped down upon us right now.

Bill: Yes.

Kerry: Yeah. It will seem like a new world.

David: It will!

Bill: Yes, that’s something that I can wholeheartedly agree with you about. Something which we haven’t talked about, actually, either publicly or privately, is that I cannot agree, personally, with what you have said about ascension; but I do agree with the metaphor of this just exactly as you have described. I would subscribe to that wholeheartedly.

And one of the very clearly announced signs of hope, and you must have heard this yourself - Dan Burisch’s on-stage interview with Rob Simone, where he said there will not be a catastrophe, there is going to be a Renaissance . Remember that?

David: Right, I remember that.

Bill: That was actually very triumphant.

David: Yes.

Bill: It was very inspiring. And I do actually believe that - I believe that wholeheartedly.

David: Absolutely.

Bill: And there may be some growth pains along the way, but I do fully agree with you that that is where we’re headed.

David: And what we’re doing with this video right now is helping that to happen. And what you can do to help us is circulate these videos to your friends. Turn people on to what we’re doing, because publicity is the best way for us to be able to help more people with this message. And it’s not like PBS, where we’re gonna say, you know, “The phones are ringing... please call.” [laughter]

Honestly, you can send us money and that’s cool, but the best thing you can do is give us publicity. Get it out there, because that’s awesome. People hear about this and it helps them. They feel better.

Kerry: And be the change you want to see!

David: Most important is get authentic - get honest with yourself! Go into the gratitude and live that life of the promise of abundance, and it will start to flow for you. That’s a truism that cannot be denied.

Bill: Take a few risks - swing out, and you may be astonished with the changes that you see in your own lives and those around you.

David: Absolutely!



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