David Wilcock:

Interview transcript - Part 3

This page is a reformatted version of the original Project Camelot publication.


The Road to Ascension: David Wilcock - Part 3
A video interview with David Wilcock

Los Angeles, May/June 2007

Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Lynn Cassidy

(continued from Part 1 and Part 2)
(continued in
Part 4)



Start of interview

David: You can't just crash the gate, because it can be very damaging. Your shadow-self is what you have to move through to get to the fruits of the higher self. I believe that everyone here at this time is awakening to their higher self, and their potential. And the idea of a singular messianic figure is very old world patriarchal thinking.

So you have the two primal forces in the universe, love and light. Love is fourth density light. Where wisdom is fifth density. The unity of love and light is the sixth density, the brow chakra. You reach a point in your cosmic evolution where God is not something "out there". You're saying, "Oh there it is, it's within". So how could you be a messiah on a planet? How could anybody be? Because that implies that it's somebody else.

We were building up to a point last time, right before we cut off the camera, and I wanted to finish that point. It is important for people who are watching it edited together. Its gonna be kind of a cliffhanger otherwise.

I was talking about how the DNA molecule, as per Dr. Peter Gariaev's information, acts as an antenna, and that it harnesses photons of light in an otherwise dark room. And all the light will spiral through the molecule.

This then lends itself to another Gariaev study he did, when he took a salamander embryo, and zapped it with a laser beam. Then was able to redirect the light from the salamander's embryo, into a frog embryo.

And in doing so, he was able to cause the frog embryo to completely metamorphize into a salamander. So the relevance to what we are talking about, in so far as we have this planetary climate change phenomenon, we have a great outside source of energy that seems to be coming into our solar system and causing changes that we haven't seen before. And these changes actually affect our DNA.

So in other words, when you are seeing the planets change and you are seeing magnetic fields getting larger, you are seeing the actual atmosphere of the planets becoming brighter. All these things are happening. We are also on the planets. Of course we're on the Earth, and so the changes are energetic and it affects the whole system.

Not just one part of the system, so we are part of that Earth system, so this is really kind of the smoking gun that suggests that species evolution is actually occurring, and that part of what this 2012 situation's really about.

There's a scientist from UC Berkeley, Dr. Robert Rhode, and he showed that the evolutionary record does not indicate Darwinian evolution, which occurs, at this gradual speed. You have these sudden moments in which new species appear on the Earth, and they occur in even cycles of time, which are actually 62 million years in length.

So what that appears to indicate is that there are domains of energy in the galaxy, that take a 62 million years to traverse. And when we hit a wave front, when we hit a new layer of this energy, it has an affect on the DNA of every organism on the planet, causing these discontinuous changes, similar with what you saw with the salamander, frog experiment.

Bill: Would you also say that this facilitates Lamarckian Evolution, the inherited acquired characteristics?

David: Yeah, in so far as it seems that the energy field that we're interacting with is itself a conscious source, and, given the fact that the field itself is conscious, events that cause great stress or pain, to an organism, are uploaded into the collective mind of that species' field, which Dr Rupert Sheldrake calls the "morphogenetic fields".

So then, what happens is there is an adaptive mutation that occurs, based on the needs of that particular species, and its environment. The core of what Sheldrake is coming out with, in my mind, is most easily seen with the Backster studies. Dr Cleve Backster.

Now last year we actually went down to San Diego and filmed Dr. Backster. He's a scientist who started out as a CIA polygraph expert, and he decided one day, "what would happen if I took my polygraph and hooked it up to the leaf of this plant?". Well, he was very surprised, because, unlike smooth, unchanging wavelengths, which he thought he would see from the plant, instead he ended up with a shifting dynamic wave, which was more indicative of what you would expect a human being to be like, with the exception that skin, kind of acts as a dampening agent to the electrical current. But the plant has a very active dynamic electrical current.

Well, then he said, "This plant is acting so much like a human being, what if I ran the plant through stress, similar to how you do a human on the lie detector?" The whole purpose of the lie detection is, you want to get this person into the moment, when you say, "Did you fire the shot who killed so and so?" And the person has a shock, and they're not happy, they're not enthusiastic about your question. So, so they end up saying, "no of course I didn't kill him", and then the graph goes crazy!

So he says, "How do I shock a plant"? He tried dipping one of the leaves in his coffee. That didn't work. He tried a variety of little things like that, when he got the idea in his mind, without actually even doing it, but he just got the idea, of going and taking a match, lighting the match, striking it, then holding it to one of the leaves and burning the leaf.

The plant had an enormous reaction, and in fact did not stop until after he had actually gone and done it, burnt the leaf, and then taken the matches out of the room again. Only once the threat was gone, and he was out of the room, did the plant finally calm down.

So here we are, literally 40 years later, after he discovered this, we're filming Dr. Backster. And he's not an actor, so if we didn't get the plant to have an authentic reaction in our film shoot, then, you know, we weren't gonna get him reacting the way that it should be.

So we had set up this scene, where there was supposed to be a kid in the classroom, who hears about Backster's effect, and gets excited, and wants to burn the plant, and prove it for himself. And we actually had a plant hooked up to the polygraph, and we have a graph of it and everything, and, in between takes, it was very tense on the set.

We're under a very tight time schedule, and there was a problem with this little camera that we had over the polygraph, that was supposed to be able to show us the needle's movement, but it wasn't working. Our director was getting really angry at the guy who was setting up the camera, 'cause it wasn't working. And I noticed that as the tension in the room got really extreme, from the camera problem, the plant was having a reaction.

I'm watching the needle, (makes sound effect) going like this (makes hand gestures), I'm like, Wow! You know, I knew it was real, but still when you see it yourself it's still kinda like the difference between somebody believing in UFOs, and somebody seeing a UFO land in your backyard. It was like, "okay, that's really happening". So now we have this situation where Backster is there, he's not reading lines, he's basically improvising, which created a lot of trouble in the editing room. And we needed to get the plant to react in a way that was authentic.

So I finally got this idea in my mind that I would, at the exact moment in the scene, where the kid gets up out of the chair and is gonna threaten to burn the plant, my part in that scene, is I'm supposed to stop him. So I put my hand on his chest and basically push him back. I said, "I'm just gonna conjure up the ugliest, darkest, most vile, heinous, horrible emotions that I could think of and just focus them all on that plant. And I didn't want to have it show on my face, because it wouldn't be appropriate for the shot. But I wanted to get, like, nervous and have my heart suddenly race.

So we did the shot. The kid gets up to light the plant on fire, and I just blasted this plant, this bolt of very nasty energy. The plant went crazy!

Backster's like, "Oh ho, we got a reaction there!" And that was so gratifying because it proved that this is real. Now the reason I'm telling you this story is because Backster proved this not just with plants, he proved it with bacteria, he proved it with single cells, he proved it with human cells. Dr. Brian O'Leary, NASA astronaut, actually gave him a skin sample from inside of his mouth, and they put it in a tiny little test tube with gold wires, and then sent O'Leary off to the airport. They synchronized watches and O'Leary would write down every time something stressful happened to him, like "Oh my God, I missed my turn on the thruway", or the freeway, or whatever. I guess this would be the freeway 'cause it's California. Thruway is an upstate New York thing.

So anyway, he, O'Leary, is writing down every time he has a stressful event. Well sure enough, here's his living cells, three hundred miles away in a lab, and every time he had a stressful event, his cells were showing a reaction. So then you have to ask yourself, okay, what if two people's cells come together and make a child. Like the parent-child psychic connection, right?

Then you say well, okay, is it only cells from your own body, or near to your own body? We actually know that it's not that way plants respond to other organisms dying. They don't just respond to threads of their own. You can get a plant to respond to the death of brine shrimp. That was one of Backster's famous experiments, where he randomly dumped brine shrimp, living brine shrimp, into boiling water, and it would kill them, and as long as nobody else was in the building, the plant would react to the death of the shrimp.

Kerry: So where are you going with it?

David: The fact is that, we are, when we're seeing evolution in these 62 million year periods, it's a function of the actual field of consciousness itself changing. In other words, biology is affected by the field, the way that we think is affected by the field, and how that we are heading towards 2012.

It's not so much that time is speeding up, where you're going to look at a clock and the hands are gonna move faster. In a Newtonian model, you have particles, sitting there in empty space, and they shouldn't have any reaction with each other. Yet, when we are in alignment, when we are aligned with the galactic center, so that if you're standing on the Earth, and the Earth is rotating, and your body is on the surface of the Earth and as the Earth spins, your position of the galactic center spins.

And if there's (pointing at the camera) the galactic center, as I turn to face it, my psychic ability increases so much. It's like we're this river of energy coming from the center of the galaxy. So, what that ultimately suggest is, that our position in the galaxy does have an effect on our cognitive function, on our thinking. It also gives us strong support to this idea that evolution could be created as a result of a positioned galaxy, as to why you have these 62 million year cycles.

In order to really understand how this science works, you really have to think in terms of fractals. And what fractal means is it's actually a term derived from taking an imaginary number which is the square root of negative one, and chunking it through very simple operation, a little equation, and then you take the product of that and you run it through again, and you take the product and run it through again.

So if you've ever seen, like a paisley shirt, and it has these kinda flowery patterns, that's what fractal pattern basically looks like. Now, the thing about a fractal is you can zoom in on it, and the farther in you go, you keep seeing the same pattern appearing again.

Bill: Like the Mandelbrot Set?

David: Yes, like the Mandelbrot Set, exactly.

Now the crop formations have had fractal patterns. Actually, there was a very interesting case where a team of crop circle researchers were saying, "wouldn't it be interesting if the Mandelbrot Set showed up in the crops", and the next day it was there. So that was obviously pretty amazing.

The fractal principle is important because you have an energy system within an atom, which in some degree, is similar to the energy system within the solar system, which to some degree is similar to the energy system within the galaxy, and even the galaxies all have a orbit around a universal center as well, that has been determined by a researcher from Russia, Dr. A.N. Mishin.

So, in the solar system, there is a cycle that at first was believed to only affect the Earth. It's a show wobbling of the Earth's axis, called precession. It takes 26,000 years to complete, roughly speaking. So you get the idea now how this can be like a rhythm, like a pulse, okay?

Well that's what happens, there's this pulsation at the center of every torus, and that pulsation then ripples out through the medium, because this whole torus is like a fluid, it's like a medium.

So the pulses are going out from the center, they reflect off the outside edge of the sphere, okay? Then they start going back towards the center. So they're going out and coming back. So you have this area in the center, which is doing this (making up and down hand motions), right? There you have waves going out, waves reflecting off the edge, waves coming back to the center. So this is what's happening.

Now the waves that go out, and the waves that come back are interfering with each other, they're colliding with each other. When they do they form walls, spherical walls of energy, where there's a higher concentration, because you've got the wave that's going, (makes sound effect noise), and they collide together and form this wall. Now as more energy gets into this system, the central oscillator starts going a little bit faster, or maybe the rhythm doesn't change but the power of the waves changes.

So the actual size of the whole system gets larger, and this is what's actually happening. You have, it's basically a counter rotating energy force. The way that you have one, this actually goes back to the ancient Vedic scriptures from India. They talk about Purusha and Prakriti, the two primeval forces, which actually are geometries. Purusha is a icosahedron, and Prakriti is a dodecahedron, which are these basic geometries, Platonic Solids as they're called.

So one basically stays stationary, while the other one, moves, and they counter-rotate inside of each other. So you now have to imagine two spheres with the donut whole in the same space, and as they collide, they counter-rotate, and they form one as it rotates, forms a wave that's going up like this (makes clockwise circle motion with hands), the other one rotates, it forms a wave that goes down like this (makes counter-clockwise circle motion with hands).

The up-going wave, and the down-going wave collide in the center, form this sphere, that pressure creates the pulsation, the pulsation creates ripples that go out, ripples come back, they interfere with each other, they create these walls of energy, and as the system evolves, the walls of energy expand in size. As those walls collide with our solar system, they charge up the sun, they charge up the planets.

That's what we're seeing in my work with Hoagland. It affects the whole solar system. It changes our DNA. It expands our consciousness, and it ultimately changes the frequency of physical matter, leading to a complete transformation effect, similar to the Bermuda Triangle, except that it's now the whole planet. So you have people basically disappearing and this ties back in with the Christian rapture idea, and all the other systems of thought that have the same thing.

Kerry: One of the questions I asked was whether this synthesis, in your understanding, is known and fully understood and utilized by The Powers That Be... whoever you consider The Powers That Be to be?

David: (laughs) Well, I certainly don't want to come across, as a know-it-all, or arrogant or whatever. What I can say is, that this is not my information that I'm sharing with you, as much as it is information that I was shown, through, what you could call remote viewing or telepathy.

And it was only because I had scientific contacts and a background to be able to understand what I was actually being shown and then find the research for it. The Black Ops community has a fairly good knowledge of physics, but it does not have a complete knowledge of physics, and it does not really fully understand what it's seeing. It has long been a surprise to me, the lack of knowledge on behalf of individual whistleblowers within that community.

I think part of that is, we were saying off camera, that severe compartmentalization makes it so that, information known to one guy at a desk at the CIA, is not known to the next guy at the next desk. And I actually met with this retired CIA officer who confirmed that to me.

Bill: And it's the same with the scientist guy in Livermore doesn't know what the guy in Los Alamos is doing, and sometimes, even when they're told to share information, that they don't even do that. (David nods head in agreement)

David: So what you end up having, like in quantum mechanics, there are so many competing models, to try to explain the basics of quantum mechanics, super string theory, eleven dimensions, 26 dimensions, 9 dimensions, Kaluza-Klein theory, which is a five dimensional universe, and the mathematics are so complex, that you can't learn all of it. You can only learn one very specialized area.

Well, I am really a fan of Einstein's comments about the difference between what he called the "theory of wood" and the "theory of marble". And the theory of wood, if you can imagine, somebody taking a bunch of wooden boards, and nailing them together to make a sculpture. It's rickety and it teeters and totters a lot. Where as, a really good theory, is carved out of marble. It's just, it's already there and you just have to take away that that you don't need. Einstein said that a really good theory is self-evident. It's simple, it's easy, you can explain it, and it works.

We're now dealing with unified science, in which we see the same properties at the quantum level, as we see at the galactic level, the micro and the macro, and in mainstream science, quantum physics, and relativity theory, which is Einstein's physics, do not interrelate with each other. There's a very big disconnect there.

Unify those together, and I believe that what I'm describing to you is a unified theory. Part of that is how we see the same effects in the quantum field, showing up in the structures of these super cluster galaxies, where they're all based on the octahedron shape. Like an egg carton, called an "egg carton universe".

That's Battaner and Florido, these two scientists in Spain who did that research. So I don't want to get too far off track into physics things, because a lot of people start, you know, you're up on stage and you see heads going like this (puts head back and closes eyes). (laughter)


(continued from Part 1 and Part 2)
(continued in
Part 4)



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