Renegade: Gordon Novel on Camera
A video interview with Gordon Novel
Los Angeles, December 2006
Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan
My name is Gordon Novel. I have been involved in things like Watergate and
assassination, the DeLorean drama and Waco. And others that would be
better not mentioned.
They’re all over our rights. You know, the Constitution’s
out the window. The Patriot Act is a joke. It’s a fascist document.
On the Paradoxes created by knowing the future
G: Why? And the answer is: paradoxes. They recognized in the mid ‘50s
they probably had rigs at Dugway etc, that was beginning to go up and down
from the thing and they began to recognize the paradox. The paradoxes are:
Tell me how you’re going to run the economy. We’re getting
ready to cut loose a study with Arlington Institute on how do you run an
economy if you know the future. How do you do it? How do you do it?
Gordon's vision for the future
G: We’re interested in the, ah, Plutopian enhancement of the economy
from about 44 trillion GDP currently to about a quadrillion a year in about
ten years, making everybody about 100 times more wealthy and spreading
the wealth out and causing an equalization. And people don’t have to work
if they don’t have to pay for energy.
G: But how many
of ‘em are real? Have you ever seen a photograph
of an ET that you really believed was a photograph of ET? And the answer
is “I ain’t seen one yet.” And do I believe they’re
out there? Of course, yes, but, you know... What Burisch said seems to
be real and I would believe that he got to meet ‘em... They would
interface with Majestic before they would interface with a group of mad
The Extraterrestrial Revolution
in favor of the... what I call the extraterrestrial revolution which
gets rid of the need for government and all this of crap that goes with
it, these decision makers that basically screw with our lives every day.
G: They know
that we will play hardball and that we know how to play hardball. I mean,
now that we... Thanks to Bill Hamilton identifying all the Majestic characters,
we can chase ‘em, you know? They’re
On Dan Burisch
G: That guy’s
really got a tale and...
Kerry Cassidy: That’s right.
G: ...and I would suspect that if he and I could get on the same page
that he would be able to communicate to the Majestic inner circle: “Hey,
you need to consider what these guys are doing ‘cause, you know,
they’re gonna do it with you or without you. They’ve got your
technology. They’ve got it. They’re prepared to fight you at
the drop of a lawsuit.”
K: Well, so what do you want to do? You want them to join your team?
G: Well, ideally, it would be to get Majestic on our side.
K: That’s what I’m asking you.
G: Yeah. Absolutely, you know. Then we could confront the Bilderbergers. “Cause
when I tried to confront the Bilderbergers via Kissinger and Brzezinski,
the next thing I know is I’m... Marijuana’s turning up in
my pocket, crack cocaine under the front seat of my car, this video tape
is going out and da-da-da-da showing my apartment’s being black-bagged.
G: I mean, it was endless. I mean, I’ve got a list of all that crap.
G: What’s the difference between the Mafia and the government if
they’re trying to kill you? None. None. They’re all the same.
They’re all gangsters. If I had to do a biography today, I’d
title it Government by Gangster: My Experiences as a Citizen of the
United States of America.
On Hal Puthoff
has told me stories of interviews that he’s had with
generals who said, “Yes, we put all the money into paying for studies
that keep universities from doing any grant work in the physics department,
in line. We would give ‘em 5 million dollars to do the sex habits
of fruit flies and that type kind of stuff.” And they paid off. They
stopped all antigravity research commencing in the mid ‘50s.
Quoting a letter of testimonial:
“For reasons beyond his control, Mr. Novel is not responsible for the
final economic planning, construction, management, or operations of the exposition.
For the many years I have known Mr. Novel, he has always been a gentleman and
a businessman of honor and integrity with a highly creative and very broad
macro vision. He has extensive business, political, intelligence, research
and technical skills, in program planning, organization and proper management/execution
on any scale.
“During the long term of our relationship, Gordon has become nationally
known for his controversial investigative concerns and sociopolitical campaigns.
He is in point of fact an absolutely fearless individual in pursuit of the
people’s justice when he believes in the righteousness of his cause.
By definition he is a true American patriot.
“I highly recommend him to anyone for his experience, leadership, genius,
and persistence and determination to see his or others’ visions successfully
“I am proud to call him my friend.
Chairman, Kern Studios, New Orleans
April 25, 2002”
Bill Ryan: Is that a publishable letter?
Gordon, you are a very, let’s say, notorious individual...
K: ...and we are incredibly pleased to be able to interview you today.
And you’ve got an incredible project that we’re not gonna talk
about at all, I don’t think. But you’ve certainly got... You’ve
certainly raised our curiosity and our admiration by the amazing amount
of work you’re going into, to actually... can I say? Bring free
energy to the planet?
K: OK. Tell me a little bit about who you are, for people that have never
heard... I know it’s hard to believe, but... have never heard of
G: Well, I don’t know how to... My name is Gordon Novel. I have
been involved in things like Watergate, and JFK’s assassination,
and the DeLorean drama, and Waco, and others that would be better not mentioned
that were more intelligence oriented, or foreign intelligence oriented,
so I kind of stay away from talking about that.
G: And I have never worked for the CIA.
G: I’m not a CIA agent. I’m affiliated, I work with, and we
have a mutual admiration society based upon my relationship with the individuals
I work with.
K: OK. And can you name...
G: But I don’t work for ‘em.
K: ...those individuals or not?
G: Uh. I’d prefer not to at this time. I think it would be a better
idea not to mention them. They’re known but, there’s no...
I don’t need the ego-trip of that association.
K: OK. And right now you actually have a project that you’re coming
to Hollywood to, ah... a movie. That’s OK to say, right?
G: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. We’re doing a trilogy... a project on a trilogy
of films called Kingdoms Come with my co-producer Doug
Ivanovitch and we’re currently in the process of funding the project
in the hundreds of millions of dollar level.
K: OK. And is it correct that the CIA is actually backing your other project?
Is that something you want to say?
G: Well, they... they’re interested in supporting and endorsing
a number of things that I’m doing because they are capable of changing
things like global warming and getting rid of global warming, and getting
rid of the chaotic conditions of our current New World Order and that kind
of thing. Getting rid of the murder and mayhem that goes on on the planet.
K: OK. And this is, now, would you say, the good side of the CIA? There
K: ...than one side of the CIA, is there not?
G: The CIA has multiple sides but it’s been my experience over the
years that they’re basically the only good guys in the entire United
States government. They’re really patriots. Most of ‘em are
patriots and I’ve never known... I personally have never known them
to do anything criminal, ever. And they didn’t kill John Kennedy
and they didn’t kill a lot of people that they’ve been accused
of causing the death of but I don’t know that to be true. So I can
tell you that my experience with ‘em has been like dealing with Eagle
K: OK. How long have you been dealing with them?
G: Since about age 20.
On the death of the Kennedys
K: Did you have anything to do with the death of Robert Kennedy or Jack
G: No, absolutely not. All that...
K: Now why do people think that you did?
G: Because I was... first became... I was working at the White House and
then on a counter-intelligence project that was kind of important. And
... I got referenced over to Garrison and he made me his chief of security.
And I discovered that he was fabricating evidence. And he found out that
I’d discovered that and he turned it over to NBC. So he decided that
the best way was to make me his most important material witness. And he
wasn’t accusing me of a crime, but it cost me a lot of grief and
a lot of people thought I was involved, which I wasn’t. Never was
involved in that. I have...
K: OK. And...
G: ...one of the best alibis in the world. [chuckles]
K: And you actually... You have a lot of feeling, or sympatico, isn’t
that true, with what Kennedy stood for?
G: Yeah. I was in favor of his revelations that were apparently about to
happen having to do with extraterrestrial technologies. And I think that
they kept him in the dark on a lot of stuff and it was one of the reasons
that motivated him to want to go to the moon. So I was very pro John F.
K: OK. And...
G: Very pro.
K: Very pro.
K: Uh huh. And what about Robert Kennedy?
G: I was personally affiliated with the Attorney General during the Garrison
thing and afterwards, uh, when he ran for President. And my only feeling
about him is that he probably helped precipitate a lot of the problems
that caused the assassination of his brother...
K: OK. So...
G: ...by chasing the Mafia, for example.
K: Uh huh?
G: The Mafia supported his brother’s election, substantively, and
they got very angry at him, along with folks like the ex-Gehlen Org....
Gehlen Organization of the Nazis and other people like that, that were
out to... and Majestic, I might add...
G: ...were really all out to get him and didn’t want him to, to
K: So Majestic was around back then.
Robert Kennedy was assassinated by a Manchurian candidate...
K: And did they have something to do with the death of Robert Kennedy?
G: I don’t think that they had anything to do with the death of Robert
Kennedy. Robert Kennedy was murdered by assassination. It was a Manchurian
candidate type of thing and I don’t know who engineered it. But I’ve
never, ever, known an individual at the CIA to ever indicate to me that
they were part of any plot. And I’ve known a lot of ‘em, including
K: And what about John Kennedy? Was that a Manchurian candidate as well?
John Kennedy’s assassin was a “patsy”...
G: Uh... Nah, I think it was just a patsy. Oswald was picked for his role
in maybe one of a dozen plots that were being hatched off at the time and
he just happened to be in the right place at the right time to get the
... to pin the tail on the donkey.
K: OK. So how many shots were fired? [smiles]
G: Well, I mean, you can... as near as I can hear there were, like, three
or four. So, you know, I don’t believe that he did it, that anybody
could have done that the way they claim he did it. And I couldn’t
do it and I don’t know anybody that could do it. And so I don’t
believe it. I don’t believe the Mannlicher-Carcano did the deed.
It may have well been used in the deed, but did it actually cause the death?
I’m not sure what did it. It could have been frangible bullets coming
from somewhere else up on the grassy knoll.
K: Uh huh. And did you think that, I guess, Lyndon Johnson, or anyone else,
had a hand in it?
G: If they did, they certainly kept it away from me ‘cause I was
working with the Chief of Staff at the White House at the time. When the
Garrison thing came down I was working with the Chief of Staff and I never
knew any involvement by the Chief of Staff or Mr. Johnson, and I was very
friendly with both of ‘em.
K: Uh huh.
G: The answer is, I don’t think that... I think they were... that
they were just down the pecking order of power that runs the world and
they just happened to be conveniently in the places where they were at
K: OK. So, well, as far as Majestic, or the Illuminati, or the Bilderbergs
or the Rockefellers...
G: The Gehlen Org. The Gehlen Org.
K: The "Gehlen..."
The Illuminati and the Gehlen Org
G: Yeah... there was a German SS officer by the name of Gehlen who had
a continuing organization that continued on past World War Two that was
substantively involved in lots of nasty stuff. And still is today.
K: OK. And are they set up in this country?
G: They’re set up all over the world but they mostly answer, if not
to the Illuminati... that’s the only place I know that they answer
to anybody. Most people all answer to the Illuminati if there’s any
power in any country.
K: What about Majestic? Do they get along with the Illuminati?
G: According to my information, Majestic and the Illuminati are not seeing
eye to eye over the idea of triaging the population of the planet in order
to bring the population down to a workable level where it’s safe
to have life. We’re approaching a very high number, around seven
billion people, and they would like to triage a bunch of the population.
And Majestic, which is mostly US military people and some other foreigners,
don’t want to see that. They’re not in favor of mass assassination
by AIDS, viruses, and stuff like that.
K: So this is a good side to the Majestic 12.
G: It’s the only good side I know of.
K: OK. [laugh] Because I know you’re not real friendly with them.
G: I am friendly with a couple of the members of it, but I’m not
friendly with their program to destabilize some of my businesses.
G: They were very nasty last year and we almost ended up whacking each
other and it didn’t happen because of a CIA safe house agreement
that protected me and saved my life, actually. So I’m very, very,
very indebted to the CIA.
K: So, what can you tell us about why you don’t get along with Majestic?
Like, what is it that puts you guys at odds?
K: Or even, maybe this’ll tell us why the CIA doesn’t get along
Majestic and the CIA
G: We sort
of expropriated their technologies from the aliens and we’re
not giving it back and we’re just...
K: You personally...
G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got very lucky back about 17, 18 years ago and
we got our hands on the technology, and worked to reverse engineer it and
pretty much figured it out. At which point we began to figure out everything
that they were doing. So they don’t like the fact that I have that
and I have put up a protective wall that they can’t beat. So. They
... killing me is just gonna cause it to go all over the web. So the CD-ROMs
are all packaged real well against that eventuality. They better hope I
never have a heart attack.
K: OK. So you set that up so you’re protected.
G: Yeah. I have a lot of friends in foreign countries who have copies of
the CD-ROM which is basically a green mail, one-on-one type of document
that says: “As long as you leave me alone I’ll leave you alone.
You fool with me, I’ll eat your lunch.”
K: So tell me a little bit about how you came across... I mean, you’re
really a big-picture thinker. And how did you actually start thinking along
G: I started off as an aeronautical engineer when I was in college and
I got real interested in what makes UFOs go and so I just kind of pursued
the trail of the technology as opposed to the aliens and that kind of stuff.
And that’s all I do is pursue the technology. I got lucky. I got
very very lucky and I got my hands on a cutaway of their birds and then
used the cutaway... the engineering cutaways, to reverse engineer the
K: But you’re not basing your theories on, say, Tesla or... or Otis
Carr’s, isn’t that right?
G: No. No, we base it on what we can see is functional and works, we know
is real. We’ve got about 12,000 frames of film of the bird dancing
around the skies of Area 51.
K: So, this is an ARV... isn’t that what it’s called?
RAM: Replication Alien Machine
G: Uh. That’s
what some people call it. We call it RAM, Replication Alien Machine.
K: Oh, I see.
G: We don’t... they call it Alien Reproduction Vehicle, and we don’t
do that. We are into the universality of the circuit design that they use
to negate gravity, inertia, and time.
K: OK. So you know something about time travel as well.
G: Yeah. A UFO is probably very much like the cars back in “Back
to the Future,” a flying time machine.
G: They’re capable of going backwards and forwards in time.
K: And what’s your vision for the world? Could you tell us in general
G: Our vision is to get the energy out there so that we can eliminate oil,
coal, and gas and nuclear fuels from polluting the atmosphere and causing
the carbon dioxide that’s creating the global warming. That and a
concomitant reduction in the cost of living by about... eighty percent
of the cost of living is attributed to paying for energy. So if you don’t
have to pay it out you get to keep it.
K: OK. But aren’t you worried about the economy? You’re actually
trying to safeguard certain aspects of the economy in the process?
G: Yeah. There’s the... we are interested in, ah, the Plutopian
enhancement of the economy from about 44 trillion GDP currently to about
a quadrillion a year in about ten years, and making everybody about 100
times more wealthy and spreading the wealth out and causing an equalization.
And people don’t have to work if they don’t have to pay for
K: OK, so... but you’re also... you’re worried about the
bankers? Isn’t that what you told me?
G: Yeah, we’re definitely worried about the paradoxes that are associated
with time travel in terms of its interference, and how you’d run
an economy and how you’d have government if you knew what the future’s
gonna be. How do you have interest? How do you have stocks? How do you
have bonds? How do you have banks? How do you have taxes? How do you have
government? ‘Cause that’s all...
K: OK. Why just because you’re going to build a vehicle are you going
to know the future?
G: The vehicle creates those problems that you must resolve before you
can introduce the technology. You’ve got to know what the resolution
of those paradoxes are. We call ‘em, ah... they create mindsets
that are very dramatic in terms of how peoples’ brains function.
K: Is that because when you get in a vehicle you’re actually time
G: Well, to negate gravity, you’ve gotta negate time and so time
is the power of the... of the bird and that’s where the power...
We don’t believe it comes from space or zero point. We believe it
comes from time, purely and simply, and that energy and time are the same
K: And isn’t Bill Hamilton working with you at this time?
G: Oh, yeah.
K: Uh huh.
G: He’s one of my science team.
K: Because he’s written a book on time travel, I know.
G: Yeah, yeah. It’s quite accurate, I might add.
K: Oh, very good. That’s nice to hear. And what about Ramsey Clark?
What’s your relationship with Ramsey?
G: Ramsey and I have been friends since I was in my early 20s working at
the White House in counter intelligence measures, electronic countermeasures
for the Johnson administration. I’ve subsequently been associated
with the Republicans, with President Johnson, I mean President Nixon and
K: OK. Now, didn’t you call yourself a libertarian anarchist? Is
G: Yeah. I’ve gone from being originally a Democrat to a Republican
to a Libertarian to a Libertarian Anarchist. I’m in favor of massive
change. I’m in favor of the... what I call the extraterrestrial
revolution which gets rid of the need for government and all of the crap
that goes with it, these decision makers that basically screw with our
lives every day.
G: And I don’t think they’re necessary. If we know the future
we don’t need people to make decisions for us. The decision’s
K: OK. Why aren’t you working with Bob Bigelow, for example?
G: ‘Cause Mr. Bigelow is worried, apparently, about his funding from
the Senate and the Congress for his inflatable habs that he’s putting
up in the Shuttle and some of his satellite work. And if he does work on
alien technology, then he won’t get funded. He’d be... They
don’t wanta fund you if... The government can’t fund you if
you’re trying to...
K: Is that because Majestic holds the rights over the alien technology?
G: No. Th... we own the intellectual property these days and we tell them
that so I guess they probably figured out that we’d figured out how
to get a grip on the intellectual property, but they don’t want it
out for many many reasons. I mean, you’re talking about destabilizing
oil, coal, gas, nuclear and the banks that are associated with the cash
flow, which is huge. It’s 80 percent of the economy for the energy.
And that money all flows through banks and if the banks don’t get
it, what do they get? They lose about 80 percent of their cash flow.
K: So. Is the idea that they’re letting... say, the CIA is working
with you on this now because it’s basically coming to an end game?
Is that what’s...
G: Yeah. I mean, it’s... There’s an evolution toward the revelation
of what the technology is to the world, and... In my opinion the CIA is
probably gonna be the only agency that survives the revolution. I haven’t
known one that wasn’t a patriot, one that... I mean patriots that
walk into bullets. They’re very brave...
K: OK but are you talking about patriots in the sense that the United States
is gonna run the world?
G: Patriots in the sense that the United States is gonna evolve along with
the rest of the nations of the world into some type of new, what we call
New Earth Order, a better system of, ah, of how things work which is not
necessarily a world government but probably is more like a system where
the future is known. God writes the scripts before, time passes, and he
knows... In most of your religions they claim that God knows the past,
the present and the future. Well if he knows the future it’s because
he wrote the script. If you can see the script, then all you can do is
live the script. So that’s what we believe happens, that the forward
time scanning capabilities of the technology allow governments to not have
to be governments, because there’s no need for decisions by bureaucrats.
You don’t need ‘em to tell you how to live. It’s all
written out how it’s gonna be. All aliens, or extraterrestrials...
I don’t like to use the word alien... extraterrestrial civilizations
probably all go through the exact same revolution. Oil seems to be a part
of the evolution of planets to get their energy and then the oil is no
longer needed because it creates problems like the global warming problems
that we have today.
K: So are you building a craft to go to Mars?
G: Uh... We’re building power generators and technology to build
starships. That’s what’s... that’s our objective.
K: OK. To go to the edge of the solar system?
G: To go to the edge of the universe. We’re not interested in the
solar system. The solar system... there’s nothing out there of any
K: OK. And have you met any aliens?
G: No. No, I know people who claim they constantly communicate with ‘em
though and are in touch with ‘em, but, no, I haven’t had the
pleasure or displeasure.
K: Have you ever talked... have you ever communicated with them through
your friends, say?
G: Mm, yeah. We attempt to have these surrogate little discussions, but
K: Oh yeah? Because you work with Lisette... What’s her last name?
K: Yeah. And she wrote the book Talking with Extraterrestrials?
G: Uh huh.
K: And... sounds like she communicates with someone out there.
G: Yeah, She’s... you can’t attribute her level of intelligence
to going to school. It’s just not there, that type of thinking and
the type of philosophy that she says that they advocate. And the way that
they see life and how we should live it is completely... it’s not
anything that we currently enjoy. Yeah. So.
K: All right. So you’ve had dialogues through her...
G: Anyhow, we’re currently trying to set up contact.
K: OK. Right.
G: And I don’t know if we’ll ever have any success at it.
K: OK. So you... You don’t know what the ET thinks of you.
G: I... No, and I don’t know whether or not they even think on that
level. We are trying to find out if they do. And it’s been our experience
that women seem to run the future and... extraterrestrial societies are
supposedly lead and directed by women. So, the female side of the equation.
So we’re very pro that idea because it’s... Women don’t
like war and don’t like the consequences of war. We should have more
women in Congress. We’d have a much more peaceful business of government.
K: And doesn’t a woman figure pretty prominently in your movie scenario?
G: Yeah. We’ve gotta... the judges and the prosecutors are women.
And we’ve kind of looked at them as the “ultra-terrestrial,” the
folks that don’t need spaceships to move around... they just think
and they’re there. So yeah, yeah. I’m... we’re very
avant garde toward the idea of women being the leaders of tomorrow, not
On John Lear
K: Now didn’t
you used to be friends with John Lear?
G: Yeah. Yeah, we were good friends for a long time.
K: OK. So, did you go to Area 51 with him? Or...
G: No, I refused. The night that he and Bob Lazar got stopped out there
by the Wackenhut guys and all that... and all that whether or not it all
happened... If it happened, it seemed to me to be a kind of a set up routine.
And Dr. Uhlig... George Uhlig and I were friends, the Director of Research
and Development at Hercules, and we didn’t want to go there.
We didn’t want to go with John. We thought there was something smelly
about it, so we didn’t go.
K: You didn’t go...
G: And it pissed John off no end.
K: Uh huh.
K: But you... you remained friends after that?
G: We... I knew his mom and dad before that time period. I go back to
the late ‘60s with being affiliated with his father and knew his
mother, Moya, because she was very close to my friend John DeLorean and
that kind of thing.
On John DeLorean
K: Uh huh. So what can you tell us about John DeLorean?
G: It’s a great sadness, believe me, when I say that he’s gone.
Because he was one of the great men of all... of the twentieth century
in terms of his thinking... The idea of non-obsolescent cars by building
cars out of stainless steel and making cars where they didn’t wear
out. Which is very possible. And they don’t wanna do it... And so.
I thought... I worked very closely with him. We’d been friends since
I was 15 years old. I met him out on the Bonneville Salt Flats when he
was sponsoring Mickey Thompson’s land speed record car. John and
I go way, way back. I thought he was one of the great men of all time.
He really was.
K: Sounds like he’s to some degree an inspiration for what you’re
G: He was grand mentor. He knew how to fight once he knew what he was fighting
and he and I were very close friends. And he allowed me to kick the crap
out of the FBI [smiles] so it was fun, to be very frank. And the FBI’s
quite a formidable group of folks. But when I had John DeLorean as my associate
and client, it was easy to beat their brains out. And we beat ‘em.
K: But you’re not a lawyer, so when you say he was your client, in
what way was he your client?
G: I was his chief of strategic planning. You might call me a chief investigator,
like I am for Ramsey Clark. I’ve been Ramsey’s chief for...
On Ramsey Clark
K: You’re using present tense. You’re
still working with Ramsey?
G: Yes, yes, yeah. Still wor... But I didn’t do Saddam. I’m
not affiliated with the Saddam defense. I left him out. I’m not bulletproof.
Ramsey’s got a halo and nobody wants to kill a Ramsey. But I’m
not sure they wouldn’t do it to me. So... let’s put it like
this. I... The stories I could tell you I don’t wanna tell you about
that. It’s a very dangerous game. Very, very dangerous, the defense
of Saddam Hussein. He had a couple of his lawyers murdered by the Ministry
of Interior and I think that the whole trial... I’m not saying that
Saddam’s a good guy... That the whole trial was a charade and it
shoulda been in the Hague a la Milosevic. And that trying him without a
Sunni judge on the bench and, ah, assassinating lawyers is not the way
you conduct a trial. You don’t conduct a trial by killing off somebody’s
defense lawyers. I’m amazed that they didn’t kill Ramsey Clark.
K: OK. But didn’t we set Saddam up to begin with anyway?
G: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Saddam was like a sabertooth tiger. And after the
Iran/Iraq war and he was starving. And he jumped out in the middle of the
road to grab an antelope out there he thought he was gonna eat. And the
next thing he heard was “Beep-Beep” and an 18-wheeler aimed
at him, which was us invading him, you know.
G: Kuwait. Yeah. I don’t think Saddam should’ve gone to Kuwait.
That was a dumb move and a very big mistake. But you gotta realize, they
called his loans and he didn’t have any money to pay ‘em, so
he called their country. You know, they shoulda left him alone and let
him restore his economy so that he could pay ‘em off.
K: What about the stargates? Do you believe in that?
G: I don’t believe in the stargates. I’m not a fan of stargates.
I’ve heard that they exist from people who claim that. But... in
fact, we use it in the movie, the technology of the weapons delivery system
of the first magnitude because there’s no way to stop it. Bang. Opens
up over your planet and you’ve got a nuke going off. How do you stop
that? There’s no defense against a stargate for a weapons delivery
system. So, if they exist, they’re the most formidable weapons delivery
system, other than a UFO, that could ever be. So, philosophically I’d
like to see... I’d like to see the elimination of the forms of government
that we have today that basically.... They’re all over our rights.
You know, the Constitution’s out the window. The Patriot Act is a
joke. It’s a fascist document.
K: So what do you think of the neocons?
G: Gangsters. I’d call ‘em gang-banksters. I don’t think
of anything... Anybody that can go off and put a war like Iraq together
and kill 150,000 people all deserve to be tried for war crimes.
K: Uh huh.
G: That’s what I believe. They all oughta be hung for war crimes.
K: But you
were very involved in Waco, isn’t that right?
K: So what can you... What happened with Waco? Because you have a very
interesting story along those lines.
G: They murdered ‘em.
G: They mass murdered ‘em. The ATF attacked ‘em and they got
the response that they asked for because they knew what they were going
up against. And they blew off the front door and they killed everybody
standing around the front door. And, ah, they then hid the front door after
they... after they filled ‘em full of bulletholes and actually came
and got ‘em and got rid of ‘em. They set the place on fire
and they blew ‘em up and....
K: Why? I mean, why? Do you know why?
G: Apparently part of the games that they’re playing to set us up
for 911 and some of the other things in order to create us into a neofascist
political police state...
K: So that was something at the beginning?
G: ...a quasi-military political police state.
K: OK, but didn’t you, ah, tell me that you got the FBI sort of into
a corner in that?
G: Yeah. I got ‘em with the FLIR [Forward-Looking Infra-Red] tape.
Myself and Bill Colby got together and we discovered that there was a lot
of gunshots in the FLIR tape and the government then put on a charade test
of it. The judge was the real culprit in the whole thing. He engineered
the whole assassination of all those people. Obliteration.
K: But Janet Reno had complete control, didn’t she?
G: She did, but she was just there when the truck went by, or the bus went
by. And she wasn’t there when they did it. And she came in a little
later and did it and she covered it all up. And she doesn’t like
me a whole bunch and I don’t like her a bunch.
K: Uh huh.
G: So that’s... that’s about the way we... I consider her
a criminal, you know, a major league criminal. So, I consider all those
people that assassinated those people... ‘cause those were a bunch
of innocent people.
K: There were children in there as well.
G: Yeah, they killed 28 kids. I mean, but they’ve killed 25,000 kids
in Iraq, so what’s the big deal?
G: Maybe more. Thirty, 35,000 children have been murdered in this war over
there on terror. How do you have a war on terror? Terror and war are all
the same. It’s all the same thing. One guy’s terrorist is and
another man’s freedom fighter and visa versa. So it’s a BS
war and those people have... we should get outa there.
K: OK. What about 911?
G: I’m a fan of Jim Marrs. You know... I’m a believer that
we probably had a big hand in doing that too, based upon the demolition
of the buildings. You can see those puffs of smoke coming from the demolition
charges off the building. So that’s not, you know... Do I believe
that they would do something like that? Yeah. Do I believe that they would
set it up? My answer is: Where’s Osama bin Laden? I mean, this government
could find a roach in the Brazilian rain forest if it wanted to...
G: ...so where is Osama? And I don’t believe we’re trying
to catch him. I believe we have a deal with him and his family. The bin
Laden family and the Bush family are like that [shows crossed fingers],
so... Do I believe that this is an honorable government? The answer’s
no. Do I believe that they’re murderers and mass murderers? Yes.
Do I believe they oughta be prosecuted in an international tribunal as
war criminals? Yes. I think we need to get out of Vietna... I mean, not
Vietnam but Iraq. It’s not much different. It’s just
a horror show. We’re just over there murdering people. We haven’t
got any justification for it whatsoever. There’s no just cause.
K: Since that, you talk about... I don’t know. I don’t even
get the lingo, but you’re talking about “wet...”
G: I mean, when people try to kill you, you do what you gotta do to make
sure they don’t or if they try to intimidate you and you make sure
that they don’t do it.
K: Well, Do you have a body guard? I mean you’re pretty brave.
G: No, no, no, no. I’m pretty good at that myself.
K: Oh, you are...
G: I don’t need... You can’t trust bodyguards. They always
end up getting you killed.
K: And so... well, do you “carry”, as they say?
G: No. No, no, no. I carry a relationship armed with the big guy that protects
me against assholes.
G: That’s a good way to describe it.
K: What’s... what’s MJ-12’s absolute, sort of, agenda,
in your view? ‘Cause I got a feel... I got a feel that you guys
are at cross purposes to some degree.
G: Yeah, we are at cross purposes but it’s because I want control
of their technology so I don’t have to go through the R&D process
on it. And we just wanta deploy it in order to prevent global warming ‘cause
if you get rid of oil, coal, gas and nuclear you’re going to get
rid of all the pollution of the planet.
K: But why wouldn’t MJ-12 want the same thing? Part of them do....
G Because they click their heels to the Bilderbergers who basically would
... are... They’re power... they’re green power. I mean,
they’re the bankers of the world. So, their desire for power is greater
than their desire to protect their children and grandchildren from being
buried in the same grave with them. That’s how I look at it.
K: Well, you’re familiar with Dan Burisch, right?
K: And you’ve expressed interest in working with him. Isn’t
K: So... why?
G: Because he’s got wires.
K: He’s got what?
G: He’s got wires in the places where we’d like to have wires.
K: Oh, you mean contact?
K: OK. Are you also interested in what he knows?
K: As a scientist?
G: Mm. Some of it’s interesting. But I am into the idea of being
able to make contact with extraterrestrials because I think it’s
an excellent idea, that they could be helpful.
G: They certainly have the knowledge of how to get past... they got past
the trial and tribulations this planet’s going through...
G: ...in their own society and they evolved into what we believe to be
somewhat of... We don’t call it utopian. We call it plutopian. Sort
of a madhouse of ideas that are completely different from what we view
as what we would call utopia. But the idea of getting rid of the cost of
energy in our economy is really good because that keeps 80 cents out of
every dollar you keep... you spend... stays in your pocket. You get rich
that way. Quick. Everybody gets rich.
K: OK. So, when did you start working on this?
G: Oh, probably in the early 70s I got involved in really trying to run
it to ground and doing the investigation in terms of trying to get our
hands on their technology and then we lucked into it one day and...
K: When you say “we,” who’s we?
The Knights Temporal
G: Well, I have a group of folks that I call the Knights Temporal, that
are, ah .. the most prominent aerospace engineers and physicists in the
world today are all part of a team we call the RAM group. We call ourselves
the Knights Temporal. We took a page out of the idea of the Templars who
basically blackmailed the Pope to give them the fiefdoms over Europe. They
created the banking orders we have today. And so, but, that... Since we
believe the technology is rooted in time, we call ourselves the Knights
Temporal. The alien technology, the UFO, is basically a flying time machine.
That’s what we believe, and it’s all be know about it. It indicates
K: OK. So you believe in time travel but you don’t believe in wormholes.
How is that possible?
G: Well, because I don’t need to worm-travel if I can get across
the universe fast enough. I mean, who wants a wormhole? I mean, a wormhole
is an idea that nobody has been able to show me any physics whatsoever
that can be happening. Maybe it can. I don’t know, but it seems like
it’s gonna take a lot of energy to keep that hole open.
K: So do you have a degree in physics?
G: No. I research it like I do all of my intelligence operations. I...
K: Well, come on, are you a genius? [smiles]
G: I always will say that the most unpleasant thing in life is to have
a 200 IQ in a 100 IQ world. So... do I? I don’t know. I know that
I am constantly offended by the ignorant bastards that live on this planet
that I have to deal with all the time. And they’re very dumb.
K: And one of those ignorant bastards stole your girlfriend? Is that right?
G: Which one? Which one stole...?
K: I don’t know. I’m asking you.
G: Oh... what they did was they basically knew that I was working on paradox
research for a university... one of the universities that we have involved
in it... and that they knew that I was fooling around with something that
was very psychologically dangerous. And they took the advantage to take
some love letters and rewrite ‘em like you would fake a tape, and
sent ‘em off to her and she took umbrage and I haven’t been
able to put it back.
K: And you’re looking, maybe, with your movie, to, ah, rekindle your
love of your life?
G: Yeah... I mean, I’d give my right arm to do that but, you know,
if she wants to... As I’ve told her, she’s gonna have to stand
behind the Ashley Judds and the...
K: Oh come on, now.
G: ...the Janine Turners and the Salma Hayeks to get the job unless she’s
K: OK. So what else can you tell us about why you pursue this with such
really almost... I don’t know... fanaticism.
G: Pursue what?
K: Your idea for this craft. Building a UFO and...
G: Well, we’re not really interested so much in building the craft
as... I mean, building a starship’s wonderful because the craft
are shuttlecraft. The UFO is the shuttlecraft for a starship...
G: ...in most instances. And not to say that they can’t get across
as quick. It’s just a lot more dangerous when you don’t have
a support system. So, what we believe is... is that the idea is to make
power, make electrical power, be able to replace... be able to put what
might look like a silo at a utility grid site where they have a relay station
and just put that there and get a gigawatt out of it. And that... if you
can mass produce those toys and get rid of the need to pump oil into the
fuel reactors that we have out there to... that make power and cars and
planes and boats and trains and everything else is unnecessary. You can
get rid of all that at. You don’t have to fly it initially but you
definitely have to get rid of it. We don’t need petro-burning machines
and we don’t need to waste a lot of time going through all of this
evolution of hydrogen economy ‘cause it takes a barrel of oil to
make a barrel of hydrogen and that’s a charade.
K: OK. But what’s going to happen, if there’re Earth changes,
to your ideas?
G: Well, we’re in favor of being able to make changes to the Earth
changes. Quickly. We’re in a race to try to get this technology developed
before the Earth is... I don’t call it global warming. I call it
global burning. I mean, it’s getting hot. It’s getting really
hot. And it’s... I mean, when you see the...
K: Well, isn’t this the sun and the solar flares got something to
G: Some people say that. But, I mean, it’s obvious that... from Vice
President Gore’s film, Unintended Consequences, or whatever
he called it... we are heating up the upper atmosphere by pumping carbon
dioxide out the tail pipes of our cars and out of our planes and out of
our trains and out of our boats and out of our everything.
K: So this is the time bomb that you think you’re up against, is
G: Yeah. I mean, I’ve heard the tales about the black planet coming
G: ...and all that. You know, show me. I’m from Missouri. You gotta
show me a picture of it coming, and then I’ll buy it. But they tell
me it’s there and, I mean, I’ve heard stories about it, but
I mean, for me, it’s... you know, I think ET keeps us here. ET created
us and ET’s purpose is to keep this little laboratory, uh, called
Earth going forward toward evolution so that we can grow up to become extraterrestrials
and spread our seed out through the universe and basically spread life,
which is the prime directive. Not to go where no man’s gone before.
Just to go. And to take life out there because there’s probably
more places to put life than there is people to put on it. A lot of planets.
K: OK. Well, that’s actually a beautiful idea.
G: Well, the best thing I can think of to do. I mean it’s... I’ve
got enough time in my life to do it.
K: And do you think you’re going to last? That you’re going
to deliver this time?
G: Well, you know, all you can do in going up Everest is try, you know.
I mean, do you make it to the top or do you don’t? I mean, it’s
not the accomplishment of getting to the top. It’s the doing of trying
to do the deed. You know, if you don’t do the deed, at least you
tried, you know. They can’t say that you weren’t a serious
type of human being, you know.
going to kind of backtrack a little bit and we’re
going to ask you about Watergate...
K: ...because, now, if I understand, you wired the Oval Office?
G: Yeah. I put in an electronic countermeasures system to defeat people
bugging the Oval Office...
K: OK. And that was...
G: ...bugging conversations and recording any conversations in the room.
K: Right. But were you involved in also, supposedly...
G: Erasing all the tapes. Yeah.
K: ...erasing all Nixon’s tapes. Right.
G: Uh huh. It was a good idea.
K: It was a good idea.
G: I wish I’da done it.
K: OK. But they weren’t erased. You heard them then, right?
K: You must have heard...
G: All 4004 tapes.
K: Yeah... and so what can you tell us? What do you know?
G: I think if I had, knowing the level of intrigue that was going on...
and what Watergate was really all about was much of a cover-up of why we
lost the war in Vietnam. It was... they were about to have Senate hearings
... [gestures at camera] Is this on?
G: They were about to have Senate hearings about a postmortem on Vietnam
and they... The powers that be elected to create Watergate to take our
attention away from the postmortem. And the Senate and the House intelligence
committees became so busy with Watergate that they couldn’t do the
postmortem on Vietnam, which I believe was the crime of crimes. It was
a terrible crime. We were over there to just get money and take the money
out the Golden Triangle for dope and take it out to Area 51.
K: So you’re saying that the money for dope went straight to Area
G: The whole Vietnam exercise and killing 55,000 Americans and about 2
million Vietnamese was for the purposes of operating the Golden Triangle’s
heroin operations in order to pump the money into Area 51, because it had
... They couldn’t fund it except by going off balance sheets. They
did Vietnam and then they did Afghanistan in the 80s and then they did
Columbia in the 90s with the cocaine, the crack cocaine crap. Which is
as evil as evil gets.
K: And so basically you’re saying that our government is running
G: [shakes head no] I’m saying that Majestic is an arm .. is no longer
part of the government of the United States. It’s run... It’s
been privatized and it’s run by the people that run the world.
K: OK. So you’re alluding to the fact that Majestic is responsible
for running the drugs. Is that what you’re saying?
G: Yeah, with the help of other agencies, the government. They moved a
lot of that money.
K: The FBI?
G: Sort of. Maybe. Probably. Probably.
K: And not the CIA? I mean, everyone...
K: ...says the CIA’s involved in all that.
G: Yeah. But I’m not gonna throw rocks at ‘em. They did what
they did, but, you know, they thought that they were doing the right thing.
Mark Felt, when he told Bob Woodward that the whole reason for Watergate
was all about covering up the Vietnamese operations, the drug sales, and
the Golden Triangle, to supply the money to do the back engineering of
the UFO, which cost billions upon billions upon billions, hundred billion
K: To back-engineer the UFO.
G: Yeah. The crash at Roswell and other places. Crashes.
K: So what do you know about the crash at Roswell?
G: Whatcha read. It’s all out there.
K: Did Nixon know?
K: Are you saying “probably” ‘cause you know or are you
saying “probably” because you don’t want to be...
G: I’m just saying probably.
K: ...on the record saying...
G: I don’t wanna go on the record. I don’t know that he knew
for a fact but I had information when I was at the White House that he
was doing that.
McCord and Liddy
G: That he
recognized that Watergate was an exercise that he didn’t
understand, by intelligence operatives that were just a bit sharper than
him. Like McCord’s finding the... putting the tape on the door twice
so that the guard would get him arrested, and that kind of crap. It’s
beyond the pale. Anybody that... if you find that somebody has taken the
tape off the door that you’re using so that you can exit the place,
and you go put it back, then all you’re asking for is to get arrested.
So McCord, in my opinion, set the President up. And Liddy was the pawn
and he was used miserably by the guys who gave him the Gemstone graphics
that were used that caused all of Watergate. Just what I know.
K: Uh huh. And can you tell me about the... didn’t they develop
the whole idea of the Manchurian candidate during the Vietnam war?
G: Well, Laurence Harvey, the actor, probably might be able to tell you
more about that than me. But the answer is that that technology’s
probably been around a while. So, you know, the ability to get people who
are... I’m trying to get the word. Somnambulistic … where
they’re subject to being hypnotized in a second and whatever you
tell them to do, they’ll do.
K: But this is MK-ULTRA we’re talking about.
G: Yeah. MK-ULTRA had a major league play in all of this. So, you know,
who’s running MK-ULTRA type of research now? It’s anybody’s
guess. It isn’t the CIA any more. I like to think I had a hand in
causing that go to away from Langley.
K: You want us to believe that Langley’s not involved in that and
other people are?
K: Because you know, the idea is that you had started working with them
G: I’ve never known the CIA to be a bunch of assassins. They’re
just too classy. They’re not into whacking people as a course of
K: And you’re not holding onto any kind of notion of honor because
this is the only shred of honor left on the planet that you can believe
G: I have never known anyone that I’ve ever been associated with
in the CIA to be a criminal. Ever. Ever. Ever.
On J. Edgar Hoover
K: OK. Can you tell us about J. Edgar Hoover?
G: He’s not a nice guy. I don’t think he was a nice guy.
K: OK. He wasn’t a nice guy. He spied on everyone, right?
G: Mm. That’s indicated. Yeah.
G: That’s probably true.
K: And... but what did you had some kind of real dealings with Hoover,
K: Do you want to tell us about that?
G: All that you’re gonna do is you’re gonna... This is gonna
piss off the FBI and they’re gonna wanta fight some more, and I don’t
wanna fight with them. I mean, I’d like to think that I’m the
guy who put the dress on him. He deserved to wear the dress. So let’s
leave it at that.
K: Is Colby dead?
K: How’d he die?
G: He drowned in three feet of water. [smiles]
K: How do you do that?
G: You get pushed... you get your head pushed under the water.
K: I see. And you know who did this deed, so to speak?
G: Ah... there was a lot of dying going on around the FLIR tape at Waco.
And the chief, he guy that did the forensic work, he croaked at his desk,
sitting at his desk. He just suddenly decided to die and nobody ever gave
me a decent pathology report on his autopsy. Colby was right in the middle
of it. He was the one who helped me get it all out. And so we thought it
was gonna sink the FBI. I mean, the CIA was very anti-FBI in that timeframe,
and they were in my corner. I mean, it’s a well known fact... they
were really in my corner. So what we were doing was trying to prevent any
more assaults on religion by the FBI. We were not... you know... leave
the kids alone. Don’t kill the kiddies. And that was, ah... Mr.
Clark is, in my opinion... and a lot of people think he’s the grand
contrarian. He may well be, but I’m... and remember, I come from
a Republican background so when people talk to me about Ramsey, I tell ‘em, “Look,
he’s got a halo.” Far as I’m concerned, if I can get
him canonized as a saint when he dies, I’m gonna do it. ‘Cause
I think he’s a saintly man. He’s represented all the bad guys
over... But they deserve to have the best representation they can get.
Everybody deserves a lawyer, OK? I don’t care what you accuse people
of, they deserve the best representation they can get. And I’ve known
a lot of them over the years, including directors.
On Bobby Ray
K: And what
about Bobby Inman? What’s he involved in?
G: [smiles] He’s reputedly ah, MJ-4, but whether he is or not I don’t
know. He’s a nice guy. He and I are friendly, so I’m not going
to say anything negative about Bob. I don’t know anything negative.
K: So, isn’t he part of Disclosure. Didn’t we hear that?
G: We hear it, but, you know, it’s one thing to hear it and it’s
another thing to do it. You know, it’s one thing to say it. It’s
another thing to do it. So...
On John Gannon
K: What about John Gannon? You know who he is?
G: Yeah, but I...
K: Do you think he’s involved in Serpo?
G: I don’t know. I’m not a fan of Serpo, you know. I’m
kind of negative toward “Beyond Disclosure” and that kind of
K: You’re negative... what do you mean you’re negative to “Beyond
G: I think that the people who... that there are a lot of people out there
that supposedly are pro-disclosure are nothing but MJ-12 disinformation
ops. And they probably operate under the cover of the DIA, who I have a
great admiration for also. I’ve never known those guys to be really
bad other than... do this disinformation thing. They seem to be a heavy
hand in the disinformation game, you see.
On Paul Bennewitz
K: What about Bennewitz. Did you know Bennewitz?
G: Yes. Yeah, yeah. We met him. We thought that somebody had spun his loop
and put him into a condition where...
On Rick Doty
K: What about Rick Doty? Did he have a hand in that?
G: He obviously had a hand in it. Did he do it and was Bennewitz already
on the slippery slope of mental disorder? I don’t know. But apparently
if he was they made sure they greased the slope a bunch for him. So I
always thought Bennewitz was a terrible crime. Just criminal activity
On Bill Cooper
K: Did you know Bill Cooper?
K: What did you think of him?
G: I thought that he oughta... to be very blunt with you, I think Cooper
was a patriot in his own way but he was a bit more aggressive than I am
and wanted to fight at every drop of the hat. He once threatened to kill
John Lear over me, and... I was there the night they did it and he thought
that I was Majestic and that was just BS in the maximum. And so Cooper
probably peed-off the cops enough to get himself shot. So... you know
K: Well, he was heavily involved in outing Waco the way you were.
G: The difference between him and me outing Waco is I was actually physically
doing it and putting it into the record of the case. I was actually doing
the investigations that brought up all the crap, that... you know...
burning ‘em up and gassing ‘em and shooting ‘em and just
basically murdering ‘em.
K: When you say you were involved in the investigation, does that mean
you do your own investigation or you have somebody do it for you?
G: Mm. I did my own investigations for Mr. Clark. Yeah, and I provided
K: Does that mean interviewing people? Does that mean researching...
G: That meant everything. I interviewed all of Koresh’s wives and
got to talk about his sex habits and da-da-da-da, which was cute. And,
so yes, I got to interview everybody and I was well known for doing that.
I was very proud of it... The fact that we lost says something to do with
our fascist judicial system.
K: So do you think that... Operation Paperclip... they brought a bunch
of Nazis over here...
G: [nods head yes]
K: I mean... Tell me you’re not using some of those Nazis in your
G: Well, they’re not part of my group and they’re
gone. They’re mostly dead. I mean, all those Nazis from
World War Two, the scientists that... Bethe and all those guys,
they’re all gone. Kammer, they’re gone. So there’s
K: But they had a big hand...
G: They’d be 90 years... they’d be 105 years old.
K: OK. But they had a big hand in the development of the atomic bomb.
G: Yeah... man, I’m a strong believer that Farrell wrote a good
book when he wrote SS: Brotherhood of the Bell recently. Good.
Very good. So I believe the Nazis’ influence is out there. We can
see the neocon fascism in our government today is out there, so do I believe
the Nazis are gone? No, I think they’re still active. Many of them.
And they still believe the same evil crap they did then.
K: So you’ve never met an ET. Have you been curious? I mean, you’ve
got hands in every pot, it sounds to me. Can’t you get an introduction
to an ET?
G: Yeah, we’re working on that. We’re...
K: You are?
G: We’re doing the best we can with the tools we’ve got to
do it with. But yes, we’re...
K: Have you been to Area 51, underground?
G: Have I
been inside of it? No. Dulce’s the... We did a thorough
search for the underground area of Dulce. And I mean thorough. And it’s
bullshit. It’s pure unadulterated BS. There’s no underground
base at Dulce. We wanted to get in. [laughs] We just wanted to get in.
We bought into the disinformation long enough to get close enough. And
we spent four, five days trekking the Archuleta Mesa and went all over
the place. And used seismometers and everything to try to find out if there
were underground holes. And we didn’t find any of that.
K: Did you use any native Americans to help you out?
G: Yeah. Yeah. We talked to all the Apaches out there and it’s just
BS. Just BS. It’s a disinformation operation.
K: And you wouldn’t be pushing disinfo right now by telling me that.
G: No. I’ll betcha a billion that you can’t find a hole in
the side of Archuleta Mesa in which you can access an alien underground
base there. And I’ll bet you a billion and I’d bet my life
on it ‘cause I went over the place with a fine tooth comb.
K: OK. What about underground LA?
G: Well, I mean, anything’s possible. I mean, they got tunnels that’ll
... They got tunneling equipment that is nuclear powered. They can drill
tunnels anywhere they want from anywhere, so...
K: What about under the Capitol?
G: I believe anything’s possible if you want to spend the money.
K: No. I’m not interested in what you what you believe. I’m
interested in what you know.
G: No. I don’t know of any underground systems. I’m sure that
they exist, I just don’t know where they...
K: You wired the White House and you don’t know if there’s
an underground base there?
G: Well, yeah, remember I did that when I was the guy who built the toy
that made it work and so that was why I was there. There was no other reason
for me to be there than the fact that I supplied the checkmate system to
do it. So obviously when they needed an installer to put it in... I put
it in there and put it in Ellis Ranch and other places.
Montauk and the Philadelphia Experiment...
K: What about Montauk? Are you familiar with Montauk?
G: Yeah, and I don’t believe it.
K: You don’t beli... What about the Philadelphia? These are...
G: I believe that the Philadelphia experiment probably took place and that
they may have done it but I have no proof that they did do it. I haven’t
seen a scintilla of an iota of really substantive evidence that any of
that’s true. It sounds to me like a disinformation story meant to
lead you away from the technology.
K: OK. Are you familiar with Wilhelm Reich?
K: What about Wilhelm Reich and orgone?
G: I think he just made... I think he probably got the Food and Drug Administration
really angry at him, with his cures. And maybe his cures were real and
they didn’t want him to do it and they just said, “Hey you
gotta go. We can’t afford you around. You’re gonna put the
doctors out of business so we’re gonna get rid... We’re gonna
put your ass in jail.” They have the capability to frame their mothers.
And they will. So. I’m a real fan of their ability to create fake
tapes and fake documents and fake this and fake photographs and fake videos,
fake anything. They can fake it all to the point where forensically you
can’t tell reality from surreality and bullshit.
K: OK. Well, along those lines, I understand that Majestic had a hand in
faking emails between you and John Lear that added to the animosity between
you. Is that right?
G: Yeah. They did that and I’m not sure John Lear didn’t have
a part of it himself, you know? So... yeah, they actually did that and
they faked some other videos, and...
On Kit Green
K: Are you able to talk about Kit Green at all?
G: No. I have nothing to say about Dr. Green. I believe he’s the
world’s greatest neurobiologist and one thing and another. I think
K: Is he called in on alien autopsies? Do you know that much?
G: I’ve heard it but I don’t know what to believe. He has never
said it to me. I know that he recently notified me that a bunch of his
emails were being faked and that there was stuff that was being attributed
to him that was obviously coming out of Majestic’s gang. Probably
using an NSA cutout to do it.
G: NSA technology... They can bug your phone, bug your computer and they
can figure it... They can read all your email traffic and they know exactly
what they want to put in your next email in order to destabilize your relationship
with whoever you’re talking to. So yeah. But Kit Green’s a
great guy as far as I’m concerned. I have no problem with Kit. He’s
not an enemy. Contrary to public...
On Jim Marrs
K: OK. So,
Jim Marrs... he’s a wonderful Ufologist, he’s a
G: He’s a member of our team.
K: He’s a member of your team...
G: He’s a historical scribe for the RAM group and he’s hopefully
my biographer. They tell me that he’s gonna do my biography and that’s
as complimentary as I can get.
G: He’s the world’s greatest conspiracy theorist.
On Eric Julien
K: Now isn’t it true that you’re
working with Eric Julien a little bit nowadays?
G: Yeah, yeah. So...
K: He’s written a book on... Supposedly he had ET visitation. He
went up and flew a craft. He knows how they work. Is he going to help you?
G: Mm. Yeah, and I’m gonna help him. I’ll be helping him more
than he’s helping me right now. But the answer is yeah, he’s
a very bright guy. He may be the Copernicus of the 21st century. But we’ve
gotta find out that. He and I’ve got to have a lot of dialogues about
reality. So. But we’re getting there because a lot of the stuff that
he’s talkin about, we’ve already found out about.
On Hal Puthoff and Jack Sarfatti
K: OK. What about Jack Sarfatti and Hal Puthoff? You working with these
G: Hal and Jack are like Mike & Ike...
G: ...or Alfonse & Gaston or Abbott & Costello, Laurel & Hardy.
I mean, all they do is fight each other and castigate and criticize each
K: Well, do they know anything? Come on, these are... Hal Puthoff is a
G: Yeah, they got a... it’s sort of like everybody... it’s
like they’ve got a little piece of the puzzle. It’s like I’ve
got the proverbial elephant. Somebody’s got a piece of the tail,
another guy’s got a leg, another guy’s got a trunk. Everybody’s
blindfolded. So they all have a little piece of the elephant but they don’t
know the whole elephant. So, you know...
K: Do they try to work with you?
G: Oh yeah, yeah. We get along fine. I get along fine with Hal and Jack.
Jack doesn’t... Jack is sort of a bit of a... monumental maniacal
ego with a huge NIH – not invented here – factor and Hal is
a much more level guy with different ideas. And one of ‘em is into
white zero-point, and the other one’s into dark energy zero-point
and they have their theories. And we don’t even believe in any of
that. So. We have our own theories. Our theories are based upon having
discovered what we have discovered. But... Hal is the chief scientist
and Sarfatti’s welcome to come aboard, but he’s gotta stop
throwing rotten tomatoes at Hal.
K: What do you mean? Hal’s your chief scientist?
G: The last time I checked.
K: How about that.
G: How ‘bout that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a matter of record.
G: So, they all attend the meetings of the gang, whenever the gang’s
coming together and they stay tuned to it because it’s an alternative
to what they’re doing and they’ve gotta keep a bet on that
horse. It’s a... in a horse race of three or four horses you’ve
gotta keep a bet on all of ‘em.
K: You’ve got some remote viewers on your team?
G: Well, Hal Puthoff is pretty much of a remote viewer. I mean, he pretty
much... him and Ingo Swann invented the stuff, so the answer is yes.
K: Are you saying Ingo’s part of your team?
G: No. I’m just saying that we’ve got remote viewers. We use
remote viewers... for security purposes.
K: OK. So you know you’re gonna be successful?
G: I proctoscope the government every so often with remote viewers, yeah.
K: Uh huh.
G: Just like, they proctoscope me, I proctoscope them. Except I...
K: OK. Are you going to be successful? I mean, are they telling you the
G: I think the only reason I’m not dead at this point is that they
know I’ll win. They know from forward time scanning that me and,
we’ll call it me and my coterie of... ah, patriots... we call ourselves
the Earth Patriots in the film. And so we went... you know, we can’t
G: The planet must continue. God didn’t develop and go through all
of this and create this giant civilization just to wipe it out just because
somebody didn’t wanna stop burning oil.
K: What is this about Starport that you’re trying to tell us about?
G: Well, you logically can’t go forward toward the development of
starship technology unless you’re gonna build starships. And where
you gonna build starships? There’s only one plant big enough on the
planet to do that and that’s the Mitsu facility where the Saturn
S1B and the Saturn Five – those were the moon rockets – and
the Shuttle main tank are done because it’s got the largest bay area.
And that’s where we believe they’re gonna be built. And it
sits in the middle of a piece of property that we’re working now
with the governor of Louisiana to develop into a project called Starport,
which is an air, sea, rail, truck, container, and space port for launching
starships into... as freighters and as aircraft to move passengers. And
like, you know, we’ll probably make it, with the right alien...
with the right antigravity technologies... you can probably make a trip
from New Orleans to Shanghai or Osaka in 20 minutes or less. We see a completely
different civilization coming. Completely. Of an extremely revolutionary
condition that’s inevitable. It has to happen.
K: Uh huh. What year do you think this is gonna happen?
G: Well, as fast as we can get our little programs rolling along, and they’re
rolling along real well. So I can only tell you that we look to see the
technology begin to go into mass production before the end of the decade.
K: Well, who runs this little consortium that you’re putting together?
Is it you?
G: I’m sort of director general of the project right now, but that
doesn’t mean that I wanna stay there. I’m just doing the thing.
We’re trying to take a former minister of defense from another foreign
country, to have him take over the project and get me out of the loop of
having to deal with the daily mundane problems and the daily development
of the consortium. It’s like Airbus...
K: Can you tell us who that is?
G: We’re there. I mean, we’re dealing with ‘em and they
know we’re there and they know what we have. There are a lot of people
that know that we borrowed, expropriated, pirated the technology from Majestic
and we’re not giving it back. It’s that elemental. And so we’re
developing it and we’re doing it in a way that overcomes the problems
that they recognize. One of the big reasons that they don’t wanna
do it is time paradoxes. Time paradoxes is a huge problem for ‘em
because if you know the future then how do you have markets? How do you
have interest? How do you have taxes? How do you have government? How do
K: How do you have free will?
K: Isn’t that one of your issues?
G: Well... I’ve been Nietzschean until I discovered this and I’m
now at the point where if somebody could give me a script and I could go
out tomorrow and enjoy my life and just carry out my tomorrow diktat from
the... we’ll call it the time forward scan TV, that I could see
what I’ve gotta do next month, that’d be fine. Go live my life
and follow the orders. God wrote the script. Why not do it? He knows what
he’s doing. We’re all apiece of him and... why not do it his
way? I mean, his way may be a lot better than our way. Free will may not
be all that big a deal. You know, who cares...
K: Come on. Aren’t you the biggest rebel of all time?
G: [long pause] But I’m not a rebel against the stuff that I believe
is the reality we may have to live with. I mean, so what...?
K: So you mean you’re a practical rebel?
G: I’m a pragmatist. I’m a pragmatic rebel. If I see that this’s
the way it’s gotta be and if I can facilitate making it happen and
it makes the world a better place to live, then great, you know. I mean,
I’m not anti that.
K: So, am I to understand that you killed a man?
G: No. Never.
G: Never, never, ever.
K: Have you ever ordered a man to be killed?
G: No. No, no.
K: So you’ve got a lot of threats going back and forth, but no....
G: There are a lot of threats, but there’s the... You know... There’s
the, “You hurt me, I’m gonna hurt you back and how I hurt you
back may not be the way you hurt me.” And so they know, that if you’re
that... If you have those kind of capabilities of doing dirty tricks...
Most people don’t wanna have a guy who has a philosophy of, “If
you have nothing to do for the rest of your life, go ahead and pick a fight
I was there when the bus went by and the little door opened on the bus
and a mechanical arm grabbed me and said, “You’re gonna take
this ride down on this bus in history.” And that was it, I couldn’t
get away from it. It was meant to happen. It was there. If I had to do
it over again, I’d avoid it. If I could go back and say I’m
not gonna be Garrison’s chief of security, I’m not gonna get
involved with the White House, I’m not gonna get involved with the
CIA, I ain’t gonna get involved with picking fights with Mr. Hoover,
and that kinda stuff, I would avoid it like the plague. ‘Cause it
cost me. It cost me a wife, three kids, 10 or 15 million dollars and five
years of my life. So I don’t want any more of that.
K: When do you think you’re going to actually be successful? I mean
G: If we get the money for this movie, we are successful. We will
be making a movie about what we’re actually doing. It’s basically
a docudrama hidden inside of a drama, wrapped inside of an enigma and on
and on, and a mystery. And so that’s what we’re doing.
K: And have you gotten anybody in Hollywood interested?
G: Oh yeah.
K: Anyone we’d know?
G: Like... all of ‘em... the brass. The moguls, the titans.
K: Oh yeah?
K: So they take you seriously.
G: They take me and my friends at Langley seriously, is a good way to put
it. And they take our relationships and our evidence and all the rest of
it... We’ve got it... This is all well documented. Very well documented.
K: So when do you start filming?
G: Ah. I would hope that it might be the middle of next year sometime after
we finish the scripts and get ourselves into production. Scripts as opposed
to just fat treatments for directors and stuff like that. So the answer
is: as fast as we can go there.
G: So we’re making headway. And there isn’t much that the Majestic
gang of... ah, sick bastards can do about it. And they know what the consequences
these days are gonna be if we catch ‘em playing in our backyard any
more. I mean, it doesn’... they can’t send... It’s
COINTELPRO, counter intelligence proactive. Same crap that was done in
the ‘60s against the peace movement is done now except it’s
much more sophisticated and very strange and very psychological operations
oriented. So they know what the price of dealing with us is gonna be. It’s
gonna be very expensive. ‘Cause we know exactly where to put our
torpedoes. They’re all exposed. We know who they are.
K: OK. But isn’t it true that the government, or... the secret government
... already has crafts up there?
K: I mean, in essence they’ve got the technology.
G: Yeah, but they can’t...
K: They’ve been dealing with ET for 40 years...
G: So what? I own the intellectual property. I...
K: So what do... I mean, they’ve been manufacturing craft that we
see in our skies.
G: They’re not manufacturing a lot of ‘em.
K: They’re not?
G: You see ‘em in a lot of places ‘cause they move quick but
there’s not a lot of ‘em and...
K: Black triangles?
G: So what? You know, that’s nothing more than a UFO inside of something
that looks like an F117A to be able to bullshit the public as they come
down the rural farm roads: “Gee, that’s an F117. It’s
just going slow.” It’s bullshit. It’s all a game. It’s
all psyops. Psyops 101.
K: Uh huh.
G: So. No, I’m not worried about ‘em. I’m not worried
about ‘em a bit. They’d better be worried about us ‘cause
we are serious guys and the team is... most of my team are all ex-NSA,
CIA, DOD, White House, and we’re not somebody you’d wanta go
picking a fight with.
G: And I’m not somebody you’d wanta pick a fight with unless
you got nothing to do for the rest of your life.
K: [laughs] OK. Well, I have no desire to pick a fight with you.
G: I’m not saying I’m a badass. I’m just telling you
that I’ve had a lot of experience dealing with gangsters, gang-banksters
and gangsters of every level of society and in our government. And what’s
the difference between the Mafia and the government if they’re trying
to kill you? None. Nothing. They’re all the same. They’re all
gangsters. If I had to do a biogaphy today, I’d title it Government
by Gangster, my Experiences as a Citizen of the United States of America.
K: How’s your conscience?
G: I sleep well.
K: You sleep well?
G: Yeah. I used to know Paul Tibbets and he bombed Hiroshima and I used
to ask him, I said, how d’you sleep? He said, “I slept well.” He
said, “So I killed 200,000 people. So what?” He says, “I
stopped the war from killing another 2 million Americans.” So...
my conscience... I have no problem with my conscience. I have never done
anything that I am really ashamed of. And notorious or quasi-famous or
interesting fellow, you know, that type of thing. All I’ve done is
I was there when the bus went by and the bus of history brought me aboard
and I just took the ride.
K: Why do you think you’re not actually interviewed all over the
place? ‘Cause you know a hell of a lot.
G: Because I avoid it like the plague. If it wasn’t for you and I
getting along, I wouldn’t do this. And the fact is, I want some fatuous
advantage right now, which is put out enough of this to keep the guys...
Because we’re getting really close to snagging the golden ring, you
know, and off the carousel and I would like to stick around a while. And
if you hurt me you’re gonna cause a lot of grief and my friends’re
gonna be very angry and my friends are gonna be very angry and those little
CD-ROMs are gonna fly all over the planet. And you’re not even gonna
be able to protect the revolution if you have the revolution without preconditioning
the situation. You’ll have chaos that’ll make the crash of ‘29
look like a tea party. So, do they wanta fight? Go ahead. Pick a fight.
You got nothing to do for the rest of your life, go ahead. I’m here.
I’m easy. I’m not hard to find.
So the bottom line is that we need to go way beyond the Peace Corps and
we need to form entities within our governments, all governments,
with the prime directive to establish peace on this planet in this decade.
K: So you want to put on your sun glasses and... ?
G: What for?
K: Just to give us the sort of, the incognito...
G: Yeah. I’m not James Bond. I’m, ah... we’d like to
think we eat those guys for breakfast. But the bottom line is that we’re
just human beings that’ve learned how to fight.
G: I wrote her over... it was right before the first Crash Retrieval Conference
in ’04. And so I wrote her some letters, some love letters. I thought
I was writing her love letters ‘cause she didn’t show up on
time for the Crash Retrieval Conference. And as a result, the... when I
went back to my computer to look at my letters that I wrote her, I could
not believe that I wrote ‘em. OK? Now, what we’ve just
discovered, and I can show you the discovery by Kit Green, is that Majestic...
he caught Majestic altering his e-mails. Completely like you would fake
a tape. I had caught ‘em doing’ that last year when John Lear
and I got into it over Lear threatening my life. OK?
Bill: How did they alter...
G: Well, I wrote John an e-mail and the next thing I know, the e-mail is
completely... the e-mail that I wrote is not the e-mail that I wrote! It’s
on my computer, but it delays... it doesn’t come right back. They
take them.. and they sit there and the remodify ‘em. And I remember
some of the changes. So I call my friends up, and I call up Ron, and I
said Ron, they’re actually altering my e-mails! And he says,
I don’t know how they can do that. I said well, they’re intercepting
them and doing it.
Bill: Did they do that with the intention of creating conflict?
G: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Kit writes a letter saying
don’t tell anybody that’s fooling with these paradoxes... be
very very careful because they’ll create a psychomimetic state akin
to LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin... alter your mindset for a period of
time. We didn’t know how long. It lasted about four or five days. ‘Cause
I just wrote a blitz of letters to her and didn’t remember writing
them. They, A, must have been on the phone. B, they knew about this paradox
thing from prior work, so they knew when all of the conversations were
going on between me and the university where I was doing ‘em that
they would... ah... they’d alter my psychology.
[Finding document on his laptop.] Here we go. Secret Anthologies of
an American Enigma. Here’s my ‘black’ curriculum
vitae. But it doesn’t have the supporting documentation. But if you
will sit down here you can read all about the ‘black’ side
of me. I’ve got a ‘white’ curriculum vitae too, which
is... but this is my ‘black’ curriculum vitae which is supported
by nothing but documentation. I have it, but I don’t have the documentation
scanned into the computer.
Bill: And that’s absolutely not for the public domain.
G: Absolutely. This is the truth.
(reading...) "Mr. Novel was retained as Chief of Security for New Orleans
District Attorney former FBI Agent Jim Garrison’s official investigation
into the assassination of President Kennedy. Because of Mr. Novel’s
secret relationship with the Johnson White House, he quickly discovered
that the alleged facts of Jim Garrison’s official State of Louisiana
[JFK] conspiracy investigation were being entirely woven out of whole cloth.
At the direction of his White House contacts, Mr. Novel secretly supplied
this information to a former high level FBI agent and chief aide to former
Attorney General Robert Kennedy, then working for the NBC White Paper special
news unit. District Attorney Garrison immediately responded by accusing
Mr. Novel of being a CIA agent, calling him “the most important material
witness in his alleged conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy”.
Mr. Novel had absolutely nothing to do with the President’s assassination
and was not then, and never has been, an agent or employee of the CIA.
Until this time in his life, Mr. Novel, like all the rest of us, had believed
that the FBI was the good guys."