Jim Marrs : The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009
Jim Marrs (JM): ...and it was on the
way to the printer, and then somebody somewhere just said: No. And it
Bill Ryan (BR): I have a piece of off-record information
for you, Jim, which we can go into backchannel if you want
BR: I have it in writing from Kit Green -- that
the remote viewing program was never closed down, and went
BR: ...with the use of drugs, hypnosis
and electronics. I have this in writing. But maybe
this is old news.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): That’s old
news to Jim...!
JM: What’s wild though is, I’ll tell you,
here’s my take: if you go ask somebody in government: Do
you have a remote viewing unit? They’re going to
say: No. And, technically, I think they’re telling
the truth. Because when you say it went underground, what they
did was they just spread it all out. Now, all these various
organizations, such as Navy SEALS, Army Rangers and the DEA
and all like that, they all have the remote viewers.
BR: Mm hm.
KC: That’s right.
JM: But it’s not... they’re not... They
don’t have a set, you know, official program of remote
viewers, they just blended them all in with everybody else.
KC: This is Project Camelot -- Kerry Cassidy and
Bill Ryan -- and we’re here with Jim Marrs. He’s
a very well known writer; very strong investigator. He’s
written several very well known books, very successful books: Crossfire and Rule
by Secrecy and Alien Agenda and The Rise
of the Fourth Reich.
And we’re actually here to talk to Jim about The
Rise of the Fourth Reich. [speaking directly to Jim]
We’re going to kind of concentrate on that area, but
we want to go all over the map, because I know that the secrets
of remote viewing is something you’re very, very familiar
You’ve just covered the whole gamut -- it’s
really amazing -- and you do so in a very coherent way.
It’s very understandable. I think that no one can read
one of your books and go: Well that’s the most outlandish
thing I ever heard, it’s not true. I think that
basically you back up everything you’ve got to say. You
were a journalist originally, is that right?
JM: Still am. [laughs]
KC: Okay. Still working, a working journalist...
KC: ...on top of your books, and...
JM: Unfortunately there’s no real journals around
anymore; [laughs] only corporate advertising delivery systems.
KC: Right, absolutely. And, basically, you’re
considered something of an expert on the Kennedy assassination
as well, aren’t you?
JM: Well, that’s where I cut my teeth, as a working
newspaperman in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, going all the
way back to the ‘60s.
KC: Amazing. So, you’re also doing the circuit,
you’re talking at various conferences, and we’re
here today at Laughlin -- where the UFO Congress is being
held -- and you’ve just given a wonderful speech.
So, what we want to do is talk about where
America is going from your point of view, get some of the background
-- the background, the Nazis and so on -- and what you’ve
been talking about in your newest book. And also, then, sort
of circle back around and talk a little bit about UFOs, the
secrecy, and what might be seen in the future.
BR: I have a question of my own which I could add there
as an adjunct, which is: why would somebody be talking about The
Rise of the Fourth Reich at a UFO conference? How’s
that for a question?
KC: Well, okay, and I have to say that we’re in
some interesting times right now, that are actually bringing
forth this questioning that I think is... not even just UFO
nuts, but political aficionados, the man on the street; everyone’s
questioning their reality right now, I think...
JM: I think...
KC: ...and why what’s happening in America is
JM: I think you’re absolutely correct. Because
of the crumbling economy, and because so many people are now
waking up and realize that no matter whether they vote for
a democrat or republican they seem to get the same socialist
programs, they are now beginning to realize that there is a
whole different paradigm than what is portrayed in the corporate
And so, the question is, why am I talking about The Fourth
Reich at a UFO Congress? And I think the answer is because
people who disregard the subject of UFOs and who just write
that off as just total fantasy and lunacy; they will never,
ever, be able to figure out what’s truly happening in
the world because they’re tossing out a big piece of
the puzzle. It’s all part of the same big mosaic and
you have to put all these pieces together to figure out what’s
Just as a “for instance”: I truly believe that
one of the main reasons for our precipitous invasion of Iraq
was to make a beeline for Baghdad, and use a mob scene as a
cover, for a very concerted effort to loot the Iraqi National
Museum. What were they after? They were after newly discovered
artifacts, tablets, scrolls and such that were being found
in the ancient Sumerian cities of Uruk and some of these other
places by French and German archaeological teams -- interestingly
enough, the two countries who were most opposed to our entry
And what was taken? Very possibly knowledge of ancient energy
manipulation technology. And this gets into anti-gravity and
a bunch of weird and exotic technologies that conventional
science would laugh at. But then, when you really study the
issue, you find that these technologies have been worked on
since at least World War II and have been kept under very ultra-secret
classification programs ever since, because this is our leading
So, you can see how it all ties together; Ancient history,
UFOs, secret societies, the world government. It’s all
part of the same big ball of wax, and unless you back off and
take that broad overview and study a wide variety of topics,
you’re never going to figure out what’s going on.
BR: This is something that Bill Cooper said, I remember,
in one of his very famous lectures that he gave in ’89
or ’90 -- you may well remember it yourself -- he
said: If you don’t factor UFOs into this jigsaw puzzle,
you’ll never understand what modern geopolitical events
are all about.
KC: Aren’t we also talking about star gates and,
you know, because when you get into free energy, you get into -- from
what I understand -- vortexes, and you get into the possibility
there is a star gate in Iraq as well that they might be covering
up. And then you get into the Anunnaki, and... so you’re
into aliens or ETs, whatever you want to call them. Have you
gone down that road at all?
JM: Well, sure. When you follow the evidence, that’s
where it takes you back to. And we mentioned the possibility
of a star gate or some sort of dimensional portal in Iraq,
you know, that takes me back to the Bible and the story of
King Nebuchadnezzar. He built this structure out of gold, which
they translate as a fiery furnace, but obviously it was something
else because people went in and out of it.
Of course, when his people when in, they tended to keel over
and die, which tells me it was some sort of an energy field.
Then he got the three Hebrew priests and told them to make
it work, and put them in there. And, lo and behold, eventually
there was four people in there. So three went in and four [laughs]
came out, so obviously they were opening some sort of a portal,
or a gateway.
KC: Wow. That’s very interesting. So, where do
you want to take us with this? Because I know that there’s
a whole movement in your speech, where you’re talking
about manna from heaven, the monochromatic gold, monotonomic...
how do you say it?
JM: The... [laughs] It’s the single-atom gold, monatomic...
JM: Orbitally rearranged monatomic gold. Single-atom
elements. These, by the way, this is nothing that’s just
outrageous and unheard-of because monatomic gold, silver, heavy
metals -- they’re in everything. They’re in
water, they’re in food, we ingest them. This is just
something else -- another layer of our 3-D material existence -- that
we had not been aware of prior to the ‘70s and ‘80s.
But then, that’s nothing new. You go back a hundred years,
they weren’t aware of atoms. So, you know, we’re
I think the thing is, and the reason we need to look into
this exotic stuff and the question of ETs is because I think
that we are in a conditioning process right now, that yes,
there may be life in outer space, and this presents a danger.
Because I know and I have seen the government documents. There
are plans. Contingency plans and government files that, at
some point, when they can’t make the international enemy
list work, is they...
You know, at one point back in the early twentieth century,
it was the international Jewish conspiracy. Well, that fell
apart. Then there was the international Communist conspiracy,
and then that fell apart. Now it’s the international
terrorist conspiracy. And yet, if you stop and think about
it, how’re we supposed to believe that’s real when
they will not do anything to secure the borders of the United
States? So that’s a sham too, and when that begins to
fall apart, then -- according to authoritarian sources -- the
next thing is going to be a threat from outer space just like
Ronald Reagan warned us about in his speech to the United Nations.
So, if you don’t want to be panicked and stampeded by
this phony threat from space, then you’ll study the UFO
issue and you’ll find out the truth about the issue.
And then when they say: Oh, no, there really are aliens
and they’re coming to eat you and you have to give up
all the rest of your liberties so we can protect you,
you can say: Nah, I don’t think so.
KC: Right, absolutely. So, through remote viewing...
You became a remote viewer yourself, is that right?
JM: I have... In my study of remote viewing, I did participate
in some remote viewing studies and in some testing and, interesting
enough, I tested pretty well [laughs].
KC: I’m not surprised, because you’ve got
a great sort of objectivity about the way you look at different
topics, and from what I understand -- I studied remote viewing
a little myself -- and I understand that it really takes
sort of an impartial look at what’s in, you know, on
the other side, so to speak.
JM: I was kind of surprised to find out that I tested
so well in remote viewing. But then as I thought about it,
it really wasn’t that surprising because as a journalist
and a newspaperman I had long-since learned to somewhat trust
KC: You have to.
JM: ... and my intuition rarely let me down. And that’s,
of course, that’s getting to the soft psychic signal
that’s at the heart of the remote viewing experience.
KC: Absolutely. So, where are you with that? As far
as using that in what you’re kind of... you’re
going down this road, you’re investigating the Nazi connection
behind our government and what’s going on now in America,
and... So how does the remote viewing help you in that journey?
JM: Well, it’s [laughs] actually not much at all,
which is surprising and probably pretty stupid. But it’s
like, you know, I know I should exercise a whole lot more than
I do but I just don’t because I’m too busy doing
other things, and it’s the same thing with remote viewing.
I really probably should sit down, at least once a day, and
try to keep my remote viewing skills up to razor edge but
I don’t, [laughs] because...
KC: But you are using your intuition, right?
KC: In your investigations...
JM: It’s helped me learn to even give more trust
to my intuition.
KC: Right. So, where are we going as a country right
now, and why?
JM: The United States has always been -- at least
been attempted to be -- dominated by a wealthy elite, and
that goes all the way back. Alexander Hamilton and his rich
friends, they wanted to run the country, because they felt
like that the rich people knew how to handle things and somehow
had better sense than everybody else. So, that’s nothing
new, and as a result the United States has always had a somewhat
conservative bend to it. And that’s ok too, because ‘specially
when you have a great country with... full of resources and
everybody’s prospering and, you know, you want to...
let’s conserve everything we have.
So there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But,
unfortunately, with the influx of National Socialists -- which
in the German language the acronym of which is NAZI -- with
the influx of Nazis after World War II, being aided and abetted
and funded by Wall Street financiers and people who consider
themselves globalists, they have no particular interest in
the United States, per se; they want to try to run the world.
First into the military industrial complex, and then into
the defense industries, and then into academia, and then into
other professions, this National Socialism has been
worming its way into the United States since after World War
II. And it really came to fore when George Herbert Walker Bush
became President -- whose grandfather was actually prosecuted
by the Federal Government of the United States in late 1942
for being a financial front man for Hitler and the Nazis -- and
then his son, George W.
And during the eight years of the George W. administration
we saw the rise and the dominance of Neo-Cons, or Neo-Conservatives,
which is nothing less than just another name for National Socialism.
So we saw this whole country tend towards the right; towards
fascism. And because fascism is defined as the blending of
state and corporate power, I don’t think there’s
anyone who can argue that that’s not the case in the
United States today.
The big difference is, in Nazi Germany, the state gained control
over the corporations, and it was that combination that created
that fascist state; and in modern America we have the corporations
gaining control over the state through lobbyists and through
pacts and through the groups that... they now control the government.
But the end result’s the same, a blending of corporate
and state power, which is fascism.
Now after eight years of this fascism, people were beginning
to chafe. Even the people who thought they really wanted to
support George W. Bush because he said all the right things
began to realize that all he was doing was pushing socialist
programs and waging unprovoked wars of aggression. So there
was a backlash, and now we have shifted from National Socialism
to Marxist Socialism, under Barack Obama.
But nothing really has changed, because in the Bush W. administration
all the top important people were members of the secretive
Council on Foreign Relations, which has dominated U.S. foreign
policy since before World War II and was created for the express
purpose of bringing in a world government. And under the Barack
Obama administration we find that all of his top cabinet members,
they’re all members of the Council on Foreign Relations.
So the very same secretive, wealthy elite is still running
this country, only now under the guise of Marxist Socialism.
And after four years of Marxist Socialism and the attendant
collapse, probably, of the U.S. economy, then we’re going
to be all set up to really go for a new dictator -- a new Führer -- as
people, in their panic over the economy and over the social
programs, they will swing back and vote for some dictator.
This is the same methodology that was used in pre-war Germany;
by the same people.
KC: Ok. Well, enter free energy into that scenario and
what do you get? Because we do see the destruction of the American
economy; we see the World economy going down, as a matter of
fact. But where does free energy kind of fit into this puzzle,
if you will, and certainly it’s in Black Projects, as
we know and we’ve documented in various videos with various
I know you’re involved in working with Gordon
Novel and the RAM Project, on some level, although
I’m not sure how. So maybe you could..? So that puts
you in a really interesting position to view how free energy
is coming into this puzzle.
JM: Right. Well, there are several question marks in
the whole equation, and free energy is obviously one of them.
If we could break the stranglehold of the monopoly of petrochemicals
and come up with some sort of a free energy, the whole equation
would change. And this is what’s going on right now.
There are some very, very intense, interdicting and covert
conflicts going on over which technology that we want to go
to; who’s going to control it.
For example, we hear talk of fuel cells for vehicles. The
reason we don’t have it yet is because they haven’t
figured out yet how to get a monopoly over it. So this, again,
is going to depend on how the future paradigm begins to shape
up. I would like to see some sort of economy set up that’s
not monopoly based; that everyone has a little bit of everything.
In fact, to give you an example: to me, the biggest example -- and
proof -- of conspiracy in the world today is the fact that
even while people are sitting here watching this interview,
in the back of their mind they realize that somewhere there
are literally thousands -- if not millions -- of children
starving to death. Now, is it because the Earth cannot produce
enough food to feed those children? No, of course not. We have
the technology that we could feed and clothe and house and
give reasonable, minimal health care to every single person
on this planet.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: So, why don’t we? Well, once you get past
the facile explanations such as: Oh, it’s politics,
and it’s transportation, and the cost is great, and
you know... get past that. It’s that way because somewhere
somebody wants it that way. If nobody wanted it that way, it
wouldn’t be that way. There’s more of us than there
are of these New World Order people. We simply need to get
all the people of good conscience and good heart together and
say: We don’t want it that way.
KC: Absolutely. Well, okay. But there is a ruling elite,
KC: And you’ve delved into that, I’m sure,
JM: Right, and I’ve detailed them and tracked
KC: Okay, so you’re talking about -- just for
the of the video -- Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations,
certainly Majestic 12, and I know you’re...
JM: Trilateral Commission...
KC: ...you’re something of an expert on them,
JM: Mm hm.
KC: So, all of these organizations are rolling out an
agenda right now, and the question is: how soon is what they’re
going to accom... are they going to be done accomplishing this,
you know, Fourth Reich, if you call it, in your opinion? Is
this something... are we already there?
JM: We’re very, very close to a Fourth Reich,
because “reich” in German simply means “empire”,
and the United States today, of course, is the preeminent empire
on the planet. It’s going to be up to us, the members
of the empire -- citizens of the empire -- whether we
act as an empire and become the imperial empire, in
which case we’re probably going to take a fall just like
the Roman Empire, just like the Third Reich and everybody else.
Or, do we try to bring peace, prosperity to everybody instead
of trying to lord it over and hog the resources of the planet.
And it’s basically just kind of a consciousness shift,
is what it is.
A good illustration is in my home state of Texas. When I was
a kid the highways were just terrible. They were littered because
people just, you know, you got through with your drink, you
just threw it out the window. And it wasn’t that we thought
we were littering and were trying to do bad, we just didn’t
know any better. We just said: Ah well, I’m through
with that and it’s out the window.
But they instituted a Don’t Mess with Texas program;
signs everywhere, and they raised the consciousness. And people
began to realize: Wait, it’s not really right to
throw all your trash out on the highway. And I’m
not going to try and say that highways in Texas today are spotless,
but they are 150 percent better than what they used to be,
and not because of any of the littering laws -- although
they’re on the books, but I don’t know of anybody
that’s ever gotten a ticket for littering -- but the
consciousness raising; and we could do the same thing with
the people of the United States.
The people of the United States are good people. We give more
to charity than all the other nations of the world combined.
And if we simply understood the truth of the situation and
we’re not being pushed from pillar to post by the corporate-controlled
mass media, then I think we could probably figure out ways
to handle the situation, and to spread the wealth, to where
everyone could have a little piece of the American Dream.
KC: Well, wouldn’t you say, though, that there’s
some kind of plan afoot to take down the American government
altogether? I mean, that’s actually what’s being
fought behind the scenes?
JM: That’s absolutely true and that’s what’s
going on. Because the United States has been the biggest stumbling
block to these globalists who want to see a one world government,
one world socialist system. The reason for that is because
in the United States we have a tradition and history of individual
freedom. And we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights,
which gives us a legal basis for our individual freedom and
liberty. And three, we have guns and we can see to ourselves
that we have individual freedom and liberty.
But right now there are... there’s a movement afoot
under the new Obama administration to register firearms, to
register ammunition, and to basically try to disarm
the population. And if that ever comes to fruition, then we’re
just going to become serfs in a new Middle Age of feudalism.
KC: Well, what about China, you know, because there’s
talk that China may be set to invade at some point in the future;
that we may be having war with China. Have you heard anything
to that effect?
JM: Well, you know, some Chinese generals are even on
the public record saying war with the United States is inevitable.
I don’t know why. Right now we’re totally dependent
on each other. We’re dependent on China to produce just
about everything that we use. You know, go into any store and
pick up a product and look on the bottom and it’ll say Made
JM: Okay, but then, likewise, they’re dependent
upon us because if we’re not there to buy all this junk
from them [laughs] they don’t have a market. So, I think
that some of this belligerence is concocted. Because actually...
JM: If you want to know what the... Here’s the
real game plan, okay?
JM: This was articulated back in 1948 by a man named
Eric Arthur Blair, who was a British Fabian Socialist and very
well connected to the royals and to the aristocracy there in
England. And I think he actually had a pretty good view on
what the overall game plan was, so he wrote it all down in
a book under the pen name George Orwell.
KC: [laughs] Okay.
JM: And, of course, that was 1984.
JM: And in there, if you’ll go back and re-read 1984,
you’ll find that they had divided the world into three
economic blocks. In 1984 they called it Oceania, Asiana and
East Asiana. In today’s real world it’s the European
Union, the soon to be North American Union and the future Asian
Union. And then what they did is they play two of those blocks
off against each other perpetually to create the tension necessary
for arms races, and for defense spending, and lots of loans
going through; that generates profit and control over the population.
JM: That’s the game plan.
KC: Okay, well that’s a great overview of what’s
in operation right now. Do you believe that there’s also...
ah, you know, the Georgia Guidestones; basically what they
say, which is elimination of the population is one of their
JM: Right. Whoever build the Georgia Guidestones, again
I think, was privy to this New World Order agenda. And this
is where I do depart from their thinking. I have an
interview with General Maxwell Taylor that was done in the
early ‘70s and he -- being not only our last ambassador
to Vietnam but also a ranking member of the Council on Foreign
Relations -- I think he was fully articulating their thinking.
He said, basically, that by the beginning of the next century -- well
that’s now -- he said we have to eliminate about a
third of the world’s population because, he said, the
basic overall problem is overpopulation. And that lays at the
heart of all the other problems; pollution and economy and
everything. And he said this will be done by limited regional
conflicts like Iraq, [laughs] Afghanistan...
JM: ...disease -- AIDS in Africa -- and starvation,
which is prevalent in many of the Third World nations. And
he said: I’m not sure we can save these people, and
I’m not even sure we should try. And so, that is
their thinking to decrease the world’s population.
Now, here’s the fallacy in their thinking: there really
is no overpopulation problem. I heard this stated some years
ago -- I didn’t quite believe it, so I checked -- but
it’s absolutely true. The entire 6.5 billion human population
could actually live comfortably enough in the state of Texas.
KC: [laughs] Really?
JM: Really. So, it’s not a overpopulation problem,
it’s a population concentration problem. You have most
of the world is jammed into these huge metropolitan areas,
big mega-cities, okay?
JM: There are other ways of doing things, okay? I could
picture a world where you and Bill could live out in a beautiful
countryside, a rural setting, okay? Got your little lake there,
and you’ve got an orchard, and you’ve got a garden,
and you’re just doing great. And when it’s time
to go shopping, then you get on your bicycle or your little
electric cart and you go down to the little station and you
hop a high-speed electric line -- zoom! -- that would
take you to a shopping centre area, like a huge mall. And you
go through there and you do your shopping, okay, and then you
zoom back home and get on your bicycle, pedal back to your
And you have your own little energy collector generator, alright?
You’re self-sufficient energy-wise. And you say: Yeah,
but what do I do for work? Well it would be whatever you
wanted to do.
We’re in an awkward situation now because we’ve
all been brought up on this Christian work ethic that says
everybody’s got to work. Okay? Well that’s a product
of older times when truly everybody had to work just to survive.
In fact, that’s why you had to have lots of kids, because
you had to have somebody work the fields, so you could produce
produce, so you’d have food to eat. But today with technology,
you know, just a few mega-farms can raise enough food for everybody.
The technology’s there. We could all be living like kings
if we demanded it, and if we wanted it, and if we could convince
these would-be rulers of the world that we all deserve to have
a fair shake at life.
BR: I have a nice little anecdote that you might be
able to use in some of your lectures. In the Marquesas Islands
in the South Pacific -- it’s a French colony which
no one’s ever heard of. In their language, they have
no word for work. And it’s a really wonderful concept...
BR: ...because, of course, we think the way we talk,
it’s not the other way round. And so, they don’t
work. They catch a fish, they build a house and they light
a fire, then they cook a meal and they dance and they do this,
and they just live. And this whole work/play dialectic has
actually been so deeply ingrained into us in this Western society...
BR: ...that we’re victims of this idea; that we’re
BR: ... because we’ve got to work all the time,
and then we’ve got to play, and then they’ve got
us by the throat...
JM: That’s right.
BR ...because we all try to get out of this loop.
JM: And if you have a son or daughter and all they want
to do is play the guitar and write music, then they must be
some kind of bum -- [Kerry laughs] -- because they’re
JM: Now, there was a great story, there was a great
story about the retired American businessman who goes down
to Mexico, and he rents a little fishing boat and he goes out
fishing. And he gets to talking with Manuel, the guy that owns
the boat, and he says: Manuel, you know, he says: what’s
your life like? What do you do?
He says: Oh, I get up in the morning, and he says: and
I come out and do some fishing, then I go home and take a
siesta in the afternoon with my wife, and at night I go into
town and sit with my friends and eat and drink and play the
guitar and we sing.
He says: Well, Manuel, he said: Don’t you understand,
if you don’t take a siesta, if you’d fish more
during the day you’d make more money and with that
more money you could buy another boat. And with two boats
then, you know, you’d get more fish and pretty soon
you could buy more boats. And the next thing you know you’ll
have a fleet of boats. And then what you do, is you come
to the United States and then you can incorporate, and then
you can sell stock, and then you can have a whole fleet of
boats and you can make, you know... and pretty soon you could
become a millionaire.
And he says: how long would that take? He says: Ah,
twenty, thirty years.
He said: And then what’d I do? He says: Well,
then you could retire and come to Mexico, and fish in the morning
and take a siesta in the afternoon, and visit your friends
And it’s like: Oh, wait a minute! [laughs]
JM: He’s already doing that...
KC: Yeah... I see.
JM: So, it’s all in the mind. It’s all in
the consciousness and how we perceive things and whether or
not you think you have to be in the rat race, and whether or
not you think you have to have more toys than everybody else
so you can prove that you’re a success. The most successful
people I know are not necessarily the richest people I know.
KC: Oh, yeah, definitely! Well, I mean, that’s
a very good point. Also, the idea is, behind free energy,
if you want to call it that, that the energy sources could
make that possible for everyone.
JM: Well, we’ve had this for a long, long, long
time. Nikola Tesla was trying to tell us how we could tap the
basic energy of the earth and everyone could just have their
own energy. Of course, he got shut down by Edison and by the
people who wanted to put in the electrical systems and make
sure that you buy energy. And today, see, they’ve got
a lock on it because, you know, you could be Bill Gates, you
could be the richest guy in the whole world, but he still pays
an electric bill each month.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: It all comes back to perception and consciousness.
Years ago, I got really big on solar energy, you know, and
I said: Well, you know, gee, either the sun shines or it
doesn’t. If it doesn’t, we’re all out of
luck, and if it’s shining, then why don’t we capture
the sun’s radiant energy and use that for energy.
So I was talking with an energy expert and he very patiently
and condescendingly explained to me that: Well, you don’t
understand. He said: It would take solar panels covering
an area the size of the state of Arizona to provide enough
power to power the city of Los Angeles.
And I thought: Oh, okay. And I checked him out, and
that’s probably true. Where’s the flaw in his thinking?
Central generation. He can only think in terms of central generation...
JM: ...generating that juice and piping it to L.A. What
if everybody in L.A. put a solar panel on their roof?
KC: And sun is so plentiful there that, you know...
JM: There you go!
KC: ...they could gather enough energy...
JM: That’s right.
KC: ...in a matter of days, really.
JM: Exactly. And why don’t they do that? Because,
the electric company...
KC: No one would make money.
JM: The electric company hasn’t figured out how
to make a cloud come hang over your house if you don’t
pay your electric bill[Kerry laughs]Okay? So, it’s all
about power and control, it’s not about technology.
KC: So, yeah, absolutely, and this is the paradigm that
humans are operating under at the moment.
KC: So, where is the United States headed in your estimation?
Because in some places right now we have Native American tribes
that are trying to secede from the Union, in essence, create
their own currency...
JM: We got 21 states now that have sovereignty bills
pending; they’re trying to cut loose. It’s going
to get real interesting. Basically, they have to destroy the
United States, okay? And what they’re trying to do is
wreck the economy, panic the people, and get everybody to accept
the North American Union. And to do this...
The way they’ll do this is by saying the only way out
of this economic mess is to combine the economies of Mexico,
Canada, and the United States. And, of course, we’ve
all heard talk of the Amero, which I have conflicting
information, and of course you see pictures on the internet,
and they say: Oh, here it is, and it’s here now,
and yet, that’s apparently not the case. That’s
just some coins people have struck as kind of a gimmick or
a trinket. But I also have heard from people that I feel like
know what they’re talking about, that the Amero money
is already printed and waiting; awaiting distribution.
This is very reminiscent of some years ago. I heard... there
was internet rumors running around about this Red Money.
Money that was going to be pinkish in color and have red ink
and dyes in it, you know, like that. And the government denied
that, and they said: No, that’s not right, that’s
not true. And yet, now it is, you know, we do have this,
the new money and it is reddish and pinkish and all like that.
So, you know...
KC: But states are not going to fall for this, it doesn’t
sound like. And even...
JM: They are balking. They're balking and they’re
bucking in the traces, and that’s good. The thing is,
this is the salvation, okay? We are not going to change the
federal structure of the United States; it’s too entrenched,
it’s too bureaucratic, too many people are feeding at
the trough, and they’re not just going to voluntarily
get up and go away.
JM: And obviously, even by voting you’re not going
to get anything changed much. In 2004, they voted in a democratic
Congress trying to curb the excesses of the Bush administration,
and what changed? Nothing! We’re still in Iraq fighting,
we’re still in Afghanistan fighting...
KC: Right, and we’re bailing people out -- or
companies out, not people...
KC: ...to much greater sums than ever thought of.
JM: And, the Bush administration, which was hailed as
the epitome of good conservatism, is the one that nationalized
the banking business, you know. [laughs] Socialism, right down
KC: Well, isn’t the bottom line that the two party
system was just a fallacy anyway, because...
JM: It’s pretty much always been a joke...
KC: ...it’s always...
JM: ... but it’s definitely a joke now. Particularly,
I guess it’s summed up in the election of 2006. You could
vote for Democrat John Kerry, who was from an oil family and
a member of the secretive Skull and Bones Society; or you could
vote for his cousin George W. Bush, from an oil family and
a member of the Skull and Bones Society. There’s no choice.
JM: There’s no difference, and anybody who still
pays attention to Democrat and Republican, they’re just
KC: Okay, so to get back to this situation. So you have...
you’ve got these families that are running everything.
You’ve got an agenda to take down the United States,
but the United States is not going to go. I mean, you know,
people are... they’re actually incredible citizens; they
actually want to save the country...
KC: They’re patriots, if you will...
JM: The problem is they’re all divided, okay?
JM: And like, I’ve traveled around the country,
and I’ve found pockets of people everywhere who understand
what’s going on, who care about what’s going on,
who want to do something about it. But they all feel like,
that they’re in the minority and that they’re all
alone because these people control the mass media.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: And this is why, by the way, that you’ve...
When is the last time you heard a national politician refer
to the Republic? They don’t even talk about the Republic
JM: ... because we’re not a republic anymore;
we’re just the Empire. And all they talk about is democracy,
democracy. We have to protect democracy; we got to spread democracy.
Well what’s democracy? It’s ruled by the majority;
so, in other words, the epitome of democracy in action is a
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Well, that’s not what we were given. We were
not given a democracy; we don’t want a pure democracy.
We want a democratic republic; and what’s the
difference? Because in the democratic republic, if you’re
charged with a capital crime then you have to... you get to
face your accusers, you get to have legal representation, you
get to go into a court/legal system, and you get to cross-examine
the evidence against you; you get to have a fair trial. And
then if you’re found guilty and you have a chance for
an appeal, and it’s turned down, then they can
JM: That’s the way it’s supposed to work.
But we are no longer a rule of... a nation ruled by law.
KC: Right. The corporations basically rule...
JM: Corporations tell us what to do. And again, it’s
that takeover-of-the-state mechanism by corporations; it’s
the very dictionary definition of fascism.
KC: So let’s get back into what happened during
the time of Paperclip, and during the time of the Atomic Bomb,
and maybe you could talk a little bit about what really went
on back then because I think a lot of people need to get their
history, you know, straightened out in their heads.
JM: They really do, because in our conventional history,
it’s like: Well, there was the Russian Revolution,
and then out of that grew Communism, and then they... we had
a Cold War with them versus Capitalism and yadda-yadda-yadda...
The truth of the matter is, is that the very same people in
Wall Street and the city of London -- these Internationalists,
these global financiers -- they created Communism in Russia.
When the Russian Revolution broke out Lenin was in Switzerland.
Trotsky was in New York living on Rockefeller property, okay?
They sent them into Russia to capture the Revolution for the
Bolsheviks and turn Russia into a communist state, which they
did. And the idea was, I think, to build up a communist East
versus a capitalist West, and they were going to perpetuate
the Cold War many years before we actually saw it actually
come into being.
But the problem was, it threatened to get out of hand. There
were strong Communist parties in France, England, Italy, Germany -- even
the United States. And so they... we talk about this One World
Government, but they really don’t want a true One World
Government, because then they can’t play one nation off
against another, or one economic block off against another.
So this made them fearful, and they decided they had to stop
the spread of Communism.
The one country that was in a position geographically and
economically to act as a block against the spread of Communism
was Germany. So they went in and found a German army intelligence
agent, and they put him in charge of a little political party
called the German Worker’s Party which he quickly changed
the name to the National Socialist German Worker’s Party
(NSDAP) -- the acronym of which is NAZI -- and, of course,
that was Adolf Hitler. And Hitler provided this block against
the spread of Communism. Then they perpetrated this whole idea
of the Nazis were bitter enemies of the Communists,
KC: And meanwhile, they’re being financed by Bush...
JM: And run by the same people...
KC: ...Prescott Bush, behind the scenes...
JM: Exactly, yeah, and the Rockefellers...
KC: ...and I -- what is it -- Farben?
JM: IG Farben.
KC: IG Farben.
JM: And the head of IG Farben was Hermann Schmitz, and
Hermann Schmitz owned as much Standard Oil stock as John D.
Rockefeller did. It was all the same International globalists,
if you will. Now the problem was, is that Hitler got too strong
and the Germans were a little too efficient, and they over-ran
Europe. They were moving into North Africa, they were pushing
into Russia, taking over Norway, and were threatening Britain.
Now all of a sudden it looked like they were going to have
a One World National Socialist system. And oh, they didn’t
want that either! But mostly they didn’t want Germany
in charge of the world economic order because this had been
the purview of the city of London -- those bankers with
the Bank of England -- and their Wall Street compadres,
So, at some point, even though they had created Hitler, put
him into power, financed his rise; they turned against him,
and that’s when we had World War II. They managed to
stop Germany, push it back. And yes, we defeated Germany in
World War II, but we didn’t defeat the Nazis. The Nazis
were still much in power, and they cut deals. They swapped
their exotic technology, their rocket technology, their energy
manipulation technology, their mind control technology, chemical
technology and pharmaceutical technology to the United States
in exchange for immunity.
We brought them in over the war and in the late ‘40s
and early ‘50s, John J. McCloy -- who had been head
of National City Bank which was one of the largest lenders
of money to pre-World War II Nazi Germany -- was made High
Commissioner of Germany. He pardoned thousands of unreconstructed
Nazis; brought them over to the United States.
His protégé was Allen Dulles, who then was head
of the CIA for many years. And under Dulles, he whitewashed
their backgrounds, and put them all -- these Nazis -- into
our military industrial complex. And that began the National
Socialist infiltration of the United States system.
KC: Wow, that’s an excellent summation of really
what happened behind the scenes. And this is what most people
JM: No, you’re never taught this in school.
KC: ...about American history...
KC: ...and even the history of the world. So you also
could talk about what the Nazis had by virtue of their occult
investigations, and possibly even channeling, and how they
got what is, in essence, free energy -- maybe even star
gate technology, certainly UFOs.
JM: Exotic technology.
JM: Yeah, and the question’s always been: How
did the Nazis get so far ahead of us in science?
JM: They were broadcasting the 1936 Berlin Olympics
over television. In fact, by the end of the war, they had television-guided
missiles. Holy cow! We didn’t know that... and there’s
good reason to believe they actually possessed and had tested
a nuclear weapon. But by the time... they did not have a reliable
delivery system, and by the time they were ready to maybe unleash
a nuclear weapon, it was spring of 1945 and the Russians were
closing in from the east and Allies from the west, and it was
almost all over. And if they had set off an atomic bomb somewhere
it would not have ended the war, it would’ve simply meant
the total devastation and destruction of Germany.
Now, where did they get all this? For years I’d heard
stories that: Well, they captured a flying saucer somewhere
and they back-engineered it. But yet, every time you try
to track those stories, it never went anywhere. And I am now
of the opinion, based on information that I have now, and based
on documentation that has come out of the old Soviet Union
now with the collapse of Communism, that the Germans had their
own remote viewers.
BR: Mm hm.
JM: Of course, they didn’t call it remote viewing,
because that was a term that was coined back when the CIA and
the National Security Agency in this country was studying and
working with psychic warfare. But they had the same type thing.
Back then the Germans had been very much involved in the occult,
if you want to call it that, all the way back in... prior to
the 1920s. And they would have séances, and they would
have all of these channelings, or whatever you want
to call it, but at the bottom line of it is what we call remote
viewing. It was the use of these psychic abilities.
BR: This was the Vril Society, wasn’t
JM: The Vril Society. And this was largely based on
the philosophies of Madame Blatavsky and her Theosophical Society.
They were heavy into that. And, of course, Hitler was put into
power with the help of the Thule-Gesellschaft, or
the Thule Society, which was an occult society made up of some
of the wealthiest aristocrats there in Germany, and industrialists.
They were big into this stuff, into spiritualism, I think,
is what they called it back then.
And so they... according to the information I have there was
even a unit within the German military called Doctor Greenbaum,
and this was basically their remote viewers. And, interestingly
enough, this was under a broader umbrella program called Majik
[he spells] M-A-J-I-K.
And that’s really interesting because, as you well know,
the Majestic 12 -- or Majik 12 -- that’s always
talked about in the UFO literature being the people at the
top who are in charge of the secrecy over UFO technology was M-A-J-I-C 12
to begin with; which is the anglicized version of M-A-J-I-K -- the
German version. And I’m wondering if perhaps, when we
brought their mind control experts and their pharmaceutical
experts and their rocket scientists all over here after the
war, if we didn’t bring some of their psychic scientists,
KC: Okay, that makes sense. Well, what about Vannover
Bush? He was head of Majestic 12 that was set up by the Truman... supposedly set
up by the Truman administration, right?
JM: Mm hm. It was.
KC: To handle the problem of UFOs and what it meant
to America, but...
KC: ...that’s a very interesting trail to follow
if they already were in operation in Germany.
JM: Right, exactly. And you have to understand that
that really was the genesis of the modern National Security
state -- the National Security Act of 1947, which began
to be put together just a few days after something
fell from the skies at Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947.
And, by August, they're cobbling together quickly this National
Security Act, and in September they actually held President
Truman -- delayed him on the tarmac there at National Airport
when he was trying to get home to visit his dying mother -- so
they could rush on board and get him to sign this National
Security Act of 1947.
Why the rush? Well, because they had to get control over all
of this information. What the National Security Act of 1947
did was create the CIA and also change the name of the Defense
Depart... War Department to the Defense Department;
a little public relations move.
But also in there -- and what has been little noticed -- was
the creation of the National Security Council. Well, by very
definition, that’s in charge of anything that has to
do with national security. UFOs? National security. Nazi infiltration?
National security. High technology? National security.
And, since the National Security Council -- and we hear
this all the time, almost any time that we’ve gone to
fight some brushfire war and the Iran-Contra scandal, on and
on -- it’s always the National Security Council is
involved. And yet, I’ll bet you virtually no one listening
knows who is the National Security Council. Well I’ll
tell you. It’s four people: it’s the President,
the Vice President, the Secretaries of State and Defense. Three
of those are appointed by the President.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: So by signing the National Security Act of 1947
into law, we basically set up a dictatorship, because the President
is now in charge of everything that has to do with national
security, and this bypasses Congress and the news media and
the public. This is when we began to move into a National Security
state which, at the heart of which, lay these Nazis -- unreconstructed
KC: So, to get back to Germany, you have them discovering
free energy somehow. I mean certainly they had really amazing
KC: Okay. And they were looking into other dimensions
using psychics, using remote viewing, using possible channeling.
And what you’re saying is they may have been also getting
technology out of those dimensions; information that they needed
to build things.
JM: Mm hm.
KC: And there is a connection to Egypt, right? And to
the Sumerians... to Sumerians’ cylinder seals...
JM: A lot of this is -- all of this -- is part
KC: A lot of the technology's back
JM: ...the Earth’s history.
JM: And it all fits together. For example: for the longest
time everybody thought that Egypt was the world’s first,
greatest civilization. Well, you know, that’s because
it wasn’t until the mid-1800s that they began to discover
these strange mounds over in Mesopotamia -- which is now
modern-day Iraq -- and they began to excavate and find that
there's huge cities under there.
And they began to discover the Sumerian civilization which
predates the Egyptians by at least five thousand years. So
what we’re actually finding out today is, is that apparently
there was, in antediluvian times, a worldwide, highly technological
civilization that probably covered the entire world. This is
why they found pyramids in Central America, South America,
China, Eastern Europe, the Giza Plateau...
And yet, something happened. There was either Earth changes,
or there was a war or something, and this whole civilization
crumbled. And what we know is our written history: the Sumerians,
and then the Babylonians, and then the Assyrians, and then
the Phoenicians, and then the Egyptians and...
These were all degradations of the same civilization. And
the proof of that, for example, is in the history of Egypt.
The earliest dynasties were the most advanced dynasties, and
then it devolved, [laughs] it degraded. And went all the way
down until we ended up in the Middle -- in the Dark Ages,
and then we’ve been slowly pulling ourselves out ever
since. And this is why that the people in the know -- and
knowledge is power, and they want to keep the knowledge, and
they don’t want us to know what’s going on -- but
this is why they are rushing around the whole world just like
Indiana Jones chasing the Nazis, who were chasing the historic
KC: The icons and...
JM: ...icons, yeah, and artifacts...
KC: ...yeah, absolutely.
JM: ...you know, because they’re trying to get
to this ancient technology.
KC: Okay, so, you just spent some time in Egypt, didn’t
KC: And did you find anything when you were there -- [Jim
laughs] -- that blew your mind, or...
JM: Yes. Under the Temple of Seti -- which is an
immense temple and just filled with hieroglyphics -- underneath
that, is a huge temple called the Osireion. And it
is huge megalithic blocks that probably weigh ten and twelve
tons each. No hieroglyphics on these, but they’re stacked
up very similar to Stonehenge.
But they are not rough rock like Stonehenge, these are perfectly,
finely cut pieces that butt up against each other so perfectly
you can’t even put a piece of paper in there. And this
is under the Temple of Seti, which means there was something
going on over there long before the Egyptians came along.
KC: Are they releasing this into the public domain?
JM: No. In fact, we weren’t even supposed to be
able to go down there [laughs], but we managed to kind of slip
down there and see what was going on. This is the stuff they
keep hidden. The same thing is that -- on the Sphinx -- it
is just obvious that there is deep water erosion grooves on
the sides of the Sphinx and on the sides of the ground surrounding
it, which means that this is vertical water erosion. the Sphinx
and the area around it had sat out under heavy rains.
KC: You actually got into this place, which is under
the Temple of Seti, you’re saying, which is built like
Stonehenge, has polished stones...
JM: Right. No hieroglyphics, it obviously predates the
Seti Temple, and so this, again, more proof that there was
something going on of a highly technological nature long before
the Egyptians came along.
KC: So, do they know, are they dating it at all? Has
anybody... did anybody give you an indication when, what it
JM: No. There is a huge resistance to all of this, and
I couldn’t quite understand the resistance until I visited
in Egypt and realized that they’re totally dependent
upon the tourist dollar and upon the whole idea of the Pharaohs
and Cleopatra and Nefertiti and da-da-da-da-da-da-da...
and they just really can’t afford to back off of that.
They don’t want to admit that there was anything going
on other than the conventional history. And, of course, everyone
else who’s an Egyptologist or whatever -- they’ve
got an entire lifetime, they’ve got books written, they’ve
got a whole career based on their theories and their interpretation
of what the Egyptians were doing. And to say that that really
wasn’t quite the truth of it, then that just throws it
all into a cocked hat, and they’re totally opposed to
However, the geologists who go and look at this very obvious
water erosion on the Sphinx will tell you that that’s
obviously water erosion, and historically, there’s not
been any heavy rains on the Giza Plateau for 10,500 years.
Which means the Sphinx, and probably the Great Pyramid, predate
the Egyptians by at least 5,000 years. And five thousand years,
you know, it’s hard for us to think of five thousand
JM: Most people today think about the war between the
states, you know, that just sounds like ancient history. And
yet, my grandmother told me about when her father came back
from the war. So it really hasn’t been that far back.
And yet to us it’s ancient history, and that was, what,
only about a hundred and fifty years ago. So to talk about
five thousand years; my God, we just... we have a
hard time even contemplating that.
But there’s no question that it points out to alternative
origins for the human race and the human species. And again,
how can we figure out what’s going on today if we don’t
know where we came from, or the truth of our beginnings? And,
what I was going to tell you is -- this is really fascinating -- is
that they are bricking up the sides of the Sphinx. Ostensibly
because they said: Well, it’s deteriorating and we
don’t want it to be destroyed, so we’re going to
brace it up, and we’re going to fix it up...
KC: Oh, wow!
JM: ...and preserve it, you know. But what
they’re doing is they’re covering up these very...
KC: The signs of erosion...
JM: ...the very obvious signs of vertical water erosion
which means it predates the Egyptians.
KC: Well, what about the fact that there’s also
supposed to be a library inside the Sphinx?
JM: There’s another thing. You know, Edgar Cayce -- back
in the ‘30s, the great Seer -- he says: Well,
there’s a room under the left paw of the Sphinx.
The Army remote viewers, by the way, took a look at that and
they said: Yeah, there’s a room in there; and
I said: What’s in it? And they said: Jars,
and vases, with scrolls, and tablets... you know. And
I’m going: Whoa! Holy Cow! The Hall of Records. We
can really find out what’s going on. You know?
JM: And then they used ground-penetrating radar and
they say: Yeah, we find a cavity there, under the left
paw of the Sphinx. So I’m going: Okay, great!
Let’s dig down there and find out what it is!
To this very day, as far as I know, nobody’s done this;
they won’t allow this. They will not allow us to get
to the truth...
JM: ...of the origins of humankind.
BR: Zahi Hawass, don’t you believe, does know
what’s going on here? And he’s smart enough to
take account of all these... this alternative research and
remote viewing, and to try and get that information for himself.
Do you think there’s something going on there behind
JM: I personally suspect that somebody has already gotten
in there. I just can’t believe that everybody knows it’s
there and nobody'll go look to see what it is. But you have
to understand that the Egyptian authorities... who pays their
KC: Yeah, absolutely...
JM: And who do they owe allegiance to? Who has trained
them? You know, again, we’re back to the Evil Empire.
KC: What about the Coral... You know the Coral Palace,
or whatever they call it, down by Florida, where he proved
that moving those stones was done by a whole different means
than what they talked about with...
KC: ...slave labor in Egypt and all of that.
KC: They have a vested interest in perpetuating the
myth of slave labor in Egypt, but in reality, that’s
not what happened.
JM: Well you know, Kerry, that’s something that
got me onto this, a long time ago before I seriously studied
ancient technology and ancient civilizations, was simply the
fact that we are told that the pyramids were built by the slaves
of the Egyptians who dragged these stones through the desert,
you know, without any [laughs] real modern wheels or anything
else, and somehow built these huge edifices. Well, who were
the slaves of the Egyptians? The Hebrews.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Okay? And who is one of the most well documented
peoples in the world? The Hebrews. They had oral traditions
going down for thousands of years and then finally wrote it
into the books of the Old Testament of the Bible. There it
all is. And I defy you to go in there and find me one verse
that says: Oh, by the way, Uncle Herbie spent his whole
life dragging stones through the desert, you know, to build
It didn’t happen! It didn’t happen. There’s
something else going on. And why don’t they want us to
know about that? Well, over and above the fact that Egypt is
totally dependent on the tourist dollar, based on the Egyptian
mythos is the fact that this would tell us, possibly, of our
extra-terrestrial origins. And, more importantly, it would
point us in the way of alternative technology and energy sources...
JM: ...and this is...
KC: ... we’re talking about sound technology...
KC: ...we’re talking about, I don’t know,
scalar waves, we’re talking about mind over matter...
JM: Right, exactly.
KC: Which is... this is all stuff in the Black Projects.
JM: Yeah. Sonic frequencies, who knows. Have you seen
the hieroglyphs of the figure standing there holding the big
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Okay, and there’s a cord that runs out and
behind it and goes to the little power thing, you know -- they
call it the Jedi, the tower -- I call it the oscillator,
okay? When I saw those, and if you go up and look real close,
unlike the rest of the caricatures on the hieroglyphics of
figures where they just have the outline of the person cut
into the stone, this has a double outline to it.
JM: And we were remarking on that and wondering what
does that mean, and I’m thinking -- being a cartoonist,
among other things -- is that when you want to show movement,
you draw extra lines. You know, if you draw a hand, and you’ve
got some lines here, it’s like the hand’s moving.
So, by drawing a double outline, they’re showing that
they’re going aye-aye-aye [makes sounds and
shakes as if electrocuted].
KC: Ah! [laughs] Okay.
JM: [laughs] They’re actually using this equipment!
JM: See? It’s very carefully... it’s just
a second outline, okay? It’s not like they tried to do
something else. But there’s a lot of interesting things
over there. Some of the temples have been defaced by Knights
Templar; Maltese crosses carved in over the hieroglyphics.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: And of course, see, we’re talking about stuff
that’s handed down for thousands of years, and it’s
been debased and defaced and vandalized by everybody and anybody.
So we’re just scratching around in these ruins and trying
to piece together what actually happened.
I guess the corollary would be, you know, five thousand years
from now they’ll find a Coke bottle buried in the dirt
somewhere and there are going to be whole scientific papers
written about: I wonder what this was about. Obviously,
since it’s in the female form, it must be some kind of
fertility goddess icon that they worshipped. You know,
this is... we’re just making this stuff up, because we
KC: Yeah, absolutely. So, where do we go from here?
I mean, you covered the gamut and this is an amazing overview
of an interview that you’ve given us. And I don’t
even... I mean, you clearly show us how you can go from Egypt,
to the Nazis, to the American government; and you can draw
a through-line from one to the other.
KC: It’s an amazing thing. So what is your solution
at this point? Because I see that you can actually foresee
that we could change the world...
KC: ...into such a place...
KC: ...where we could have access to free energy, access
to living -- keeping all the people alive on the planet
and having them fed, clothed, housed. We’re not doing
it, but this is...
JM: Why not?
KC: ...a big step in the right direction.
JM: Why not? Why aren’t we doing it?
JM: You know why? Because we sit back and we let criminals
and Nazis [laughs] gain control over the corporations
and over the government that’s supposed to be looking
out for us and taking care of us. And, hey! There’s more
of us than there are of them. Just say: No.
KC: I think there’s...
JM: Throw the bums out.
KC: ...also the myth of freedom, because if people start
to realize -- and I think, certainly, they are realizing,
and this is the danger of this economic downturn that’s
hitting America -- is that Americans are going to realize
they’re not so free, okay? That they’ve been programmed
by the media, by this, by that, and they’re also curtailed
by their government. And probably these, these limitations are
coming down even harder and faster. So if you realize you’re
not free, that’s the beginning of waking up.
JM: That’s right. And if you think you’re
free, just ask yourself: can you just pick up and move? Can
you just pick up and go move to another state, or move to another
country? And chances are, you’re going to go: Oh,
no. I can’t do that.
Why? Because: Well, I’d lose my job, and I couldn’t
make my payments, and I couldn’t make my mortgage,
and I couldn’t pay my rent, and I... You’re
not free! You’re not free. You don’t even have
any idea what freedom is. So we’ve got to get back
to the idea of freedom. And this economic turn-down or even
collapse may end up being a really good thing.
JM: Because I know a lot of people who, you know, they’ve
been taught to keep their nose to the grindstone and be loyal
to their company and work and put in a good long... good hours
of work for your boss and then you’ll be taken care of,
and now they’re finding out that: No, no it doesn’t
work that way. You know, you’ll work your tail off
until you’re sixty-four, and then a year before your
retirement they’re going to let you go -- down-size
you -- so they don’t have to pay you that retirement.
And this is happening more and more often, and people are beginning
to realize this.
KC: And they’re doing away with your savings,
and your Social Security...
JM ...and your savings are going away...
KC: It’s all going to be gone...
JM: ...your 401 is pffft, you know, it’s
down 40 percent or more...
KC: ...and retirement’s no good for anybody, anyway...
JM: No, there’s no retirement. There’s no
money in Social Security, and everybody says: Yeah, well
I’ve got these insurance policies... Yeah, big deal.
What if the insurance company goes broke? What have you got?
You got a piece of paper, that’s all you got.
So, number one, start acquiring tangible assets. Get a little
property you own yourself; get something you can grow tomatoes
on. Get a home, get a building, get something you can actually
have some tangible assets. Then start working doing things
that you enjoy doing.
This is so cool. I know so many people who for years worked
for the company, worked for the company, and then the company
just cut them loose. And they found out what good that does
and what loyalty does for you.
So then, in desperation, they run around and they try to find
another corporate job, and that gets tough -- and particularly
the older you get the tougher it gets. So then, all of a sudden
they finally have to, out of desperation, they start thinking
for themselves, and they go: Well, you know, what do I
like to do? Well, I like to grow flowers.
So, the next thing they know they’re growing flowers,
and they’re cutting flowers and they’ve started
their own little flower delivery business. And the first thing
you know they’re doing pretty good. And they’re
making a living, and they’re getting along. They’re
not getting rich, but they’re surviving; they’re
doing just fine. And they’re doing what they love to
do. And that...
KC: That’s a real key.
JM: ...that’s a real key thing...
KC: Yeah, absolutely.
JM: ...and really, really important. And then, as times
get tough, if we just all start networking and working together
as a community, you know. You grow some chickens and...
JM: ...and I’ll swap you my tomatoes for your
eggs, and we’ll all just get along.
KC: That’s true.
JM: Years ago, I had kinfolks down in east Texas, and
they were just scraping out, living there in the dirt -- red
dirt in east Texas -- and I remember asking them when I
was a kid, I said: How’d you guys get along during
They just laughed. They said: Hey, what Depression? They
says: We didn’t have anything to begin with [laughter], we
didn’t have anything during the Depression. We just kept
doing what we were doing, and we got on through!
And, we’re all going to get on through. We’re
all going to do, actually, we’re all going to do
good. In fact, we might even end up doing a lot better because
we’re not going to be, you know... But here’s the
key thing -- step one -- turn off the TV.
JM: Just turn the sucker off. And you know what, after
a couple weeks you’re going to find out two things. You’re
going to find out, number one, you hadn’t missed anything.
If World War Three starts, believe me, you’re going to
know it, okay? So you’re not going to be out of the loop,
all you’re going to be missing is all that celebrity
news and the latest shooting somewhere, and, you know, who
And number two, you’re going to find that, all of a
sudden you got some time on your hands, and you’re going
to start reading. And as you start reading, it’s going
to stimulate your brain processes because it’s not a
passive thing. You have to actually read and think about the
words, and then think about the concepts. You’re going
to start thinking, and you’re going to start: Wow! You’re
going to start thinking about things, and you’re going
to get a better appreciation of what’s really going on,
and what, maybe, you could do about it.
KC: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Marrs...
JM: Thank you.
KC: ...that’s really fabulous.
-- End of interview --
BR: That’s a good one, Jim.
JM: All right.
KC: Thank you.
BR: Thank you, sir.
KC: That’s great. That was a marathon.
JM: Well, it was, but it’s always great to actually
get in and talk about the real stuff, you know.
KC: Yeah. Well, I’m real happy you did that. Thank
you very much for going into all those places for us because,
you know, you kind of went off the record a little there, and
JM: Well, I’ll tell you... but you know, it’s
funny it’s... [laughs] When you said: You draw ancient
Egypt and the Nazis and American, it’s like ...
KC: It’s an amazing thing.
JM: It is. And the thing is, though, it really is, because
like, if you saw my presentation, I pointed out how the Treasure
of Solomon which came out of Egypt, and then it’s buried
in Jerusalem, and then it’s... half of it’s taken
to Rome... [laughs] and then from Rome it goes to the...
KC: And then it makes the Nazis possible, right?
JM: Yeah! And then the Nazis end up getting it...
KC: And then it comes to America, right, on those...
KC: ...on the U-Boat, or whatever.
KC: And then Argentina. And now, supposedly, all these
people are going... their whole solution is: go down to South
America and get away from America, right?
KC: But... Hello? [laughs]
JM: [laughs] You go down there...
KC: Guess who’s down there?
JM: You’re going to really...
KC: The Bush family in Paraguay, right?
JM: Exactly. With... how many acres they get? Something
KC: I don’t know.
JM: I keep hearing various things. I thought it was
nine thousand acres, and then I heard it was ninety-eight thousand
KC: And you have to look at that and say: Well,
there has to be a plan there, as well.
JM: Yeah, exactly.
KC: They were planning that the whole time.
JM: Well, they’re ready to bail out of the United
JM: See, this is the thing; they got a movie they’re
going to show here, which is really interesting. It’s
got a really fascinating theme to it, which is that this whole
thing building up to Armageddon, and that the economy’s
collapsing, and the environment’s collapsing, and da-de-da-de-da...
This is all a scam -- not to the public -- but to the
New World Order people.
JM: And they really think that it’s all about
to come down, so they all had been secretly working on...
KC: Jumping ship. [laughs]
JM: They’re jumping ship. So they all leave the
planet [applauds] and we’re here [laughs] we can go on...
KC: We’re all good!
JM: We’re good, we’ll have a nice life.
[laughs] Isn’t that an interesting concept!
KC: Well, I know with the Bushes in South America, we’re
going to be in good shape anyway, you know what I’m saying?
Let them go to Paraguay, you know?
JM: Yeah, they’re all going to end up in hell,
anyways, so what the hell.
KC: Sure. Absolutely, yeah... it’s crazy, what
they did in Argentina, I mean it’s just... That’s
an amazing, amazing story as well, so...
JM: It is.
KC: I mean, there is no stone unturned. Antarctica,
KC: They’re there. So...
JM: It’s a whole amazing thing...
KC: It‘s so crazy. Okay, well...
JM: Well, thanks for the coffee...
KC: And thank you, Jim. This has just been great...
JM: And I’m good... oh gosh, in fact I guess I’ve
got to run somewhere else now.
BR: Jim, it’s a pleasure. Thanks for giving us
your time, your energy...
JM: Bill. Thank you.
BR: ...your focus and your passion. That‘s all
a man can give.
JM: All right, we’re in California Suite, or Arizona
KC: We’re in Arizona right now...
JM: We’re in Arizona. Okay. All right. Y’all
KC: Okay, take care.
JM: Hey, just be kind...
JM: Don’t make me look like a bigger idiot than
KC: No, you’re fabulous.
BR: We’ll do well. Don’t worry. We’ll
do well for you, Jim.
BR: You can trust us, we promise.
KC: You’re absolutely fabulous. We can run it
by you. Whatever you want to change, just let us know.
BR: ... and we say: Just Do Something.
JM: Do something! Do what you can do... Exactly! Maybe
it’s just writing letters to the editor, you know, but...
JM: Or getting out marching and carrying
a sign. I don’t
know, it’s just whatever you can do, but by God, do something!
here for the