Interview transcript - Part 2
Luca Scantamburlo: The Return of Planet X
Italy, February 2008
Click here for Part 1
Luca Scantamburlo: So, right here [taking magazine from shelf] I have a copy of the magazine for which Cristoforo Barbato wrote a report in year 1996. The magazine was the Italian magazine Notiziario UFO. It does not exist any more. And that report was about the star wars, the NASA star wars.
And the article was written with the corroboration of the other guys: Adriano Forgione, Alberto Mancinelli, Umberto Telarico. It was about, I’m sure you remember, the footage taken by the space shuttle Discovery, which you see [shows magazine photo of space, Earth curvature, and a craft of some kind] something that appears... an attempt to destroy a UFO, out of the atmosphere, with maybe ‘brilliant pebbles’.
Kerry Cassidy: Yes, this is the STS footage.
LS: 1991. Here we have another report made by Cristoforo Barbato in 1997. [shows cover page of magazine article] It is an interview by phone with Robert O. Dean, the retired American Sergeant-Major of the US Army.
KC: Ah! Wonderful! Yes.
LS: And then [shows cover of magazine] I have here a copy of the magazine where it was published my interview to Cristoforo Barbato - which came out April 2006 - on this magazine, UFO Notiziario, which is even now the main ufological magazine.
I want to show you a frame of the introduction to the Jesuit Footage because there are some markings. [shows magazine picture of individual film frames, with words] There is a classification here. On the top you have three letters, S-V-S, which is a mystery, still now. Even now, Barbato doesn’t want to talk about this.
And then under, there are the first letters of the main space program, which, of course, is not an official position by the Vatican. Anyway, according to the Jesuit, the first letters, KE, are the letters which indicate, Kerigma, the most important space program by the Vatican.
And then you have SI, which are the first letters of the name of the space probe, which was launched the first years of the ‘90s, and its name is Siloe, the space probe that would have done the Jesuit Footage. But anyway, this is important. “The Jesuit Footage” is the expression that I have done to the controversial footage. And then you have in Roman letters the year, in which the data were sent to a radio-telescope in Alaska.
KC: Right. This telescope in Alaska...
LS: This is another piece of information, because officially...
KC: Okay. It’s owned by the Jesuits?
LS: Held by Jesuits which belong to the SIV, Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano. Of course, we are talking about classified information, according to the Jesuit. And officially we have the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope in Arizona, which is in charge to help the Jesuits to have, you know, nice scientific researches about the deep space, the universe.
[shows magazine photo of black triangular-shaped craft] And there is another picture which was not in the public domain, gave from the Jesuit to Barbato.
KC: Of the Aurora?
LS: [close-up of triangular-shaped aircraft] According to the Jesuit, it was taken by Space Shuttle crew in 1992 if I... no... in 2002, if I remember. And this is an evidence that the Jesuit gave to Barbato.
[shows magazine photos of two cartoon-like decals of a space telescope, the top decal saying “Hubble”] This is another evidence, not in public domain until this magazine published in 2006. You have this one, Hubble space telescope, you know. It’s a sort of... How do you call the small decoration you put on glass, in English?
KC: A decal? It’s called a decal.
LS: For the glass.
Bill Ryan [off camera]: An insignia.
LS: Yes. To put on your suit. [points to very similar second decal] And then have this one – “Keyhole 12, Super Spy in Space.” Look at the two writings that we have here. [pointing to second decal]
KC: NASA and CIA.
LS: NASA and Central Intelligence Agency.
LS: This was not in the public domain until Barbato came out with this material.
LS: And also, [turning page] these two gentlemen here - of course everybody knows him, should know him - is President Dwight Eisenhower. And this gentleman here is James Francis McIntyre, the former Bishop of Los Angeles. And the Jesuit confirmed to Barbato that this gentleman was present at Muroc Airfield in February 1954 because Dwight Eisenhower wanted to have a spiritual support to take an important decision for mankind.
Because there were already rumors about this presumed meeting, occurred in February 1954, between a delegation from Earth and a presumed alien delegation from outside our world.
And the Jesuit... This is very important. For the first time we had a deep throat from the Vatican who confirmed: Yes. This meeting happened. Yes, James Francis McIntyre participated.
And moreover, the Jesuit told Barbato that later on, a few days later, James Francis McIntyre broke the rules. Because, of course, the American administration - we’re talking about the leaders who were participants of that meeting - said to the Bishop: Yes, you were present because of Dwight Eisenhower’s desire. You are not allowed to talk about this, even to the Pope.
But McIntyre took another decision, and a few days later took a flight and went to Rome, and told everything to the Pope, who was, of course, shocked. And, according to the Jesuit, this was the first reason for the creation of this presumed secret service, the Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano - SIV.
But according to the historical essay found out by Barbato, Ratlines, this secret agency was already in charge before... during the Second World War. So, somebody could think: OK. This Jesuit is not a reliable person. On the other hand, maybe the Jesuit was convinced to say the truth. Who knows?
The important thing is that the same expression, Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano, was used by the Jesuit and is present in a book, an historical book, written by the former attorney, John Loftus, and a journalist, Mark Aarons.
KC: You are saying the Jesuit had a different impression of when this organization, and why the organization, was formed. Is that correct? In other words, you are saying that, according to the story...
LS: There is a contradiction. Even Barbato pointed out this.
KC: Can you explain that? What is the contradiction, exactly?
LS: Of course. Think about the genesis of the Central Intelligence Agency.
LS: The Central Intelligence Agency, if I am correct, was born in 1947. Before, there was another secret service. It had another name. It was Office of Strategic Service. So why did it change - the name, the structure, the hierarchy?
Maybe, Barbato pointed out in one of his articles, happened the same - the secret service in the Vatican was born for other reasons, and then this outstanding event occurred in February 1954 in California. And this changed a lot the reasons to keep, to carry on, such a structure.
Okay, now we have another problem. Other beings from other regions of the universe are here on the Earth. This is a threat, of course, not only to humanity, but first of all, to the faith of the Christians, of the Catholics, even to the existence of the Vatican. You have to consider this problem. One of the reasons was to keep a secret service to avoid, you know, to ... [searching for words]
KC: Maintain the secrecy?
LS: No. To have the opportunity to know what other secret services abroad could learn about these creatures. This is what I understood. This is what Barbato told me. And this is what is public. The Pope was very worried. And at the same time - this is another important point - other creatures from other regions in the universe, according to the Jesuit, begin to have contact with the Vatican, with the SIV, Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano. Even a couple of meetings took place in the Vatican gardens, involved other creatures and the same Pope.
KC: Okay, but when was this?
LS: Maybe in the ‘50s. We are talking about the ‘50s.
KC: Was it after the meeting with Eisenhower?
LS: At the same time you have at least two races. According to the records, you have at least two races. One of them is the race who had the contact at Muroc Airfield, which became later Edwards Air Force Base.
And at the same time, just a few months later, you have another race, human-looking - you cannot distinguish them from us - and they had contacts with the American administration. I’m talking about the people who had the need to know.
At the same time, they had contact with the Vatican. And those creatures said: You have to be very careful with the other creatures.
This is very important because usually, when somebody talks about the presumed meeting which occurred in February 1954, they think that those creatures were just human-looking, like us. Yes, maybe they were humanoid, but they were different.
There is at least one other race, human-looking, much more than them. And they were very worried about the secret agreement signed among the Eisenhower administration - by secrecy - with this race.
BR: Did the Jesuit say all of that to Barbato? Or is this your own summary of the situation?
LS: This is what the Jesuit told Barbato. Barbato told in the interview, and even in other...First of all, in the press release that Barbato made public in the year 2005 at the same time when there was the first meeting in which he showed the Jesuit Footage to the public. The Jesuit Footage was never given to anybody.
KC: Okay. How did the Vatican react when Barbato came forward with this story?
LS: No reaction.
LS: No reaction.
KC: Has Barbato been threatened?
LS: To the best of my knowledge, no.
LS: I don’t know anything about what happened to him. According to me, there was no threat from the Vatican to him.
KC: But surely... You are a journalist. You must have asked him if he was threatened. You, yourself, have had threatening phone calls, have you not?
LS: I had some problems with my internet connection, for example - many informatic intrusions. I had many informatic attacks. Also, in the last month, even a small disinformation campaign began against me and against my reputation. And I have to tell you that these people are playing with fire, because maybe somebody thinks that I am stupid. Well, maybe I am not a famous journalist, but I am not stupid. So, even this small disinformation campaign against me and against my reputation is a little piece of a big puzzle which indicates to me that maybe I touched very sensitive points.
Let me tell you something about the alien threat. For example, I have a lot of respect for what Dr. Steven Greer did, and is doing. I mean, it is an outstanding job. Like yours! I am very surprised, because there are still people, you know, that despite all difficulties, you know - they are keeping their efforts. They don’t give up.
But Dr. Steven Greer, which did a great job, particularly in May 2001, when he was the Chairman of the press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. And there were more than 20 witnesses involved in the past on extraterrestrial affairs and UFOs. Even today, Steven Greer says he’s convinced - because of his information - that there is no alien threat.
Okay, let me tell you something about this. Here we have behind me [gesturing to photos]... We have some frames of a gentleman who is now dead. He died in 1996, January 1996. I am talking about Phil Schneider. Philip Schneider. [photo of Schneider on screen] All right, this guy was an insider. His wife - former wife, Cynthia Drayer - she is still, now, trying to open a case about the death of her former husband, because of the mysterious circumstances in which he died.
And Schneider, for many years, for a couple of years, gave many lectures and said: Yes! There are extraterrestrial races which are benevolent, at least two of them. And: But, I’m sorry, but there are other guys in the universe which are not, you know, nice people. He didn’t use these terms. But anyway, he gave a lot of information. And he was an insider. But he was not the only one.
There was another one, Bill Cooper, Milton William Cooper, who worked for the US Navy and for the US Air Force, and until 1989, he gave many lectures. And from those lectures, came out a reality which is a little bit different from Dr. Steven Greer’s perspective of the alien presence in the solar system. But I’m not talking about, you know, he’s wrong / I’m right. We’re not talking in these terms.
I’m talking about, that there are... there were... insiders with different testimonies. So. Because this does not make sense, you know, you turn your sight to another direction. No. I’m sorry. You have to consider everything.
KC: Okay. But the Jesuit - did he say anything to Barbato about this?
LS: Yes, yes, yes. He said something that became public, because in the interview it became public. In the interview that Barbato released to me, vetted to me, he said that the Jesuit told him that this extraterrestrial race which would be present on this planetoid which is approaching us according to him, are a warrior race. He may have used another word... but... The meaning is, it is a warrior race.
KC: Did he use the term “Anunnaki”?
LS: If I remember, yes. There is no doubt. He identified that race with the race which was adored in Mesopotamia thousands of years ago – the Anunnaki, which means “those who from heaven came to Earth.” There is no doubt about this, according to the Jesuit.
And this is the reason, maybe, for which this story is dynamite. Because, it not only changes our perspective of humankind in the universe, but also, if it is true, is a threat to us, because of the effect of the passage of this planet, not only because of the presence of this race in the past on this planet and their activities on Earth.
BR: Did he explain how you could have an inhabited planet that actually spends a lot of its orbit in the deep cold of space, where no life could ever...
LS: Yes. Yes. Of course. It’s a very intelligent and interesting question. [gesturing to photo on desk] This guy here in the picture... This is a picture which belongs to a US Naval Observatory. It is in the public domain, in the US Naval Observatory website. The gentleman on the right is Robert Sutton Harrington, an astronomer who worked by the US Naval Observatory. On the left there is his former colleague, [James] Christy, who was the author of the discovery of one of the satellites of Pluto - Charon - in 1978.
BR: Who was Robert Sutton Harrington?
LS: Robert Sutton Harrington was an astronomer involved in the search for Planet X. He wrote several articles about the possible existence of this planet in our solar system. And Zecharia Sitchin is the author of this book, End of Days - Armageddon or Prophesies of the Return, who, in 1990 - August 1990 if I remember well - went to Harrington’s studio at the US Naval Observatory. They talked about the possible presence of another planet, not yet discovered.
And Robert Sutton Harrington, in that occasion, discussed the possibility of life on that planet. In spite of its distance, with a very thick atmosphere, he said: Yes, it’s possible to have life.
Now, I can add something else. If this planet exists, and it is the ancient planet adored by the Sumerians and the other civilization, Mesopotamia, it means that this planet came into the solar system as an intruder.
So, it means that in the very ancient past, this planet was not part of our solar system. And this could explain the strange features of our solar system. For example, think about the planet Uranus. The way he rotates and about the inclination of its axis about the ecliptic plane. He rotates like this. [demonstrates rotation out of camera view] The astronomers cannot explain why.
You have to assume that maybe in the past there was a collision. Now, if there was a collision, maybe, what there is written in the ancient texts - like The Seven Tablets of Creation, The Enuma Elish, Atra Hasis, which are considered by the historians like a mythology, like a set of myths. Maybe, as Zecharia Sitchin suggested - he was the first scholar to suggest this - those myths really happened. They are just, you know, the remains of historical records told us by the word of legend, the words of cosmogony.
And Dr. Harrington talked about the possibility of life on that planet. Unfortunately, he died in 1993. But he was a government employee.
KC: And, isn’t it true that you told us that Zecharia Sitchin has suggested that Harrington died suddenly in questionable circumstances?
LS: I had the luck to interview Dr. Zecharia Sitchin for the Italian magazine UFO Notiziario in last summer, 2006. And in his lines - because it was a written interview - Zecharia Sitchin just under-point that he became shocked when he knew, he discovered, when he found out, that the young and vigorous man, Harrington, was dead. But he didn’t make any reference, you know, just a few dots after the statement. He didn’t make any implications. You know, he just suggested that he was very surprised that the gentleman that was interviewed by him in August 1990, was dead. Because he was a brilliant man, a brilliant scientist. He was 50 years old. He died because of a cancer, according to a biography.
But one of the most important points, is that according to the biography - which is available on the US Naval Observatory website, written by one of his colleagues, Dr. Worley, if I remember well his name - according to this biography, written very well, is that at the end of his career, Robert Harrington lost interest in searching for Planet X, in the search for Planet X.
But if you pay attention to the articles that Robert Harrington wrote in his career, well, the impression is on the opposite way. One of his last articles is dated 1999, if I am correct, and he was still convinced that Planet X exists somewhere outside our solar system.
The difference between Zecharia Sitchin and Harrington’s hypothesis is that Harrington’s hypothesis was more concentrated on an orbit which was not cometary. Zecharia Sitchin, according to his studies of ancient texts, is convinced that Nibiru’s orbit is cometary, because of the text that are in evidence.
KC: Okay. Can we... Let’s get back to the Jesuit information.
LS: I am sure you are asking me if I know if there is a date, if the Jesuit gave a date, possibly.
LS: No date. I mean, most of the information that the Jesuit gave to Barbato, are in the public domain now, on my website, on his website, on Nexus New Times magazine, because the interview...
KC: OK. What is NOT in the public domain?
LS: I don’t know. I cannot answer to your question. I know a couple of things. First of all, the strange three letters on the classification markings that you can see on the introduction to the Jesuit Footage, the first three letters, SVS, is a mystery, was a mystery years ago, is a mystery now, yet. Barbato doesn’t want to talk about this. Because, it is his choice.
Another mystery is about what the Jesuit told Barbato about the nature of the Anunnaki. This is a sensitive point.
KC: What do you mean by “about the nature of the Anunnaki”?
LS: Yes. About how they look like. About their history. I mean, read for example The Lost Book of Enki, one of the most outstanding books written by Zecharia Sitchin. There are no comments by Sitchin, no comments. No, just a translation from ancient text. You read that text, and you will see that the ancient history of those gods, in Mesopotamia, is a history of wars, of Anu’s peoples, of the... You know, all the evil relationships that we had. And even, many times, you know, moments of kind... moments of generosity, kindness. Discussions, you know. Struggles. Moments of peace. Struggles /Moments of peace. You know?
KC: But, tell me something. You know Barbato has had this information from the Jesuit that he has not released.
LS: Yes. He told me this.
KC: Is Barbato troubled by this information?
LS: Ah, I can imagine that if at least half of all this story is true - just half, not that the entire story is true. Can you imagine how many problems can we have - he can have, I can have, even the people? Because at a certain point, if all that evidence did come out, then you put all the pieces together. Then if all that evidence would come out, you know... I’m talking about more scientific points of view, close to what you are not expecting.
Politicians - like the recent Japanese politician in Japan that a few months ago said something about UFOs. They said something about extraterrestrial presence. Three, I’m talking about three Japanese politicians as private citizens in front of a journalist. For example, the Minister of the Defense, the outer defense; the leader of the Japanese; even the Minister of the Education said something. In one week! If other leaders would come out with information about this problem...
So, I think that there is the definite possibility that you can have, you know... how do you say? Do you know the ancient myth of the Pandora’s Box? You know? And the problem is, are the people ready? Not just for the truth but for the responsibility to face the truth. Because, if such a truth did come out, we have to take some decisions about what to do.
BR: But there are two entirely different situations here that are being described. One is the presence of a large planetary body - whatever it is - that’s coming this way, possibly causing effects on the sun, possibly causing other effects if its orbit should come near the Earth ... the problems of Earth changes, resonance effects on the Earths’ crust. All kinds of things like that.
The other situation that you seem to be describing is one where this planet could be inhabited. And we have to ask this question on behalf of the people who are watching this. And that is, that, it seems impossible that you could have a planet out there which could be inhabited with humanoid life. Why would anyone want to live there, when it’s about minus two hundred degrees Celsius...
BR: ...and the sun would be a tiny little bright spot in the sky? It'd be completely dark.
LS: You are perfectly right.
BR: And if your planet is sufficiently large as to cause major problems on a geophysical scale, it’s going to be a large gas giant or maybe even what astronomers call a brown dwarf. It’s a sort of half-a-star. It’s not really a planet at all.
LS: According to my opinion, first of all, if Nibiru exists, came in our solar system as an intruder. It means that in ancient past, belonged to another solar system, another star system. You know... the people think about the universe as a peaceful place, you know. It is not like this. We have a strange perspective.
The universe is a violent place. Because of our, you know, our sense of time, it seems that nothing is happening in the solar system. But sometimes, you know, something happens, and you say: Oh well, maybe the universe is a little bit different; maybe the solar system sometimes is violent. For example, years ago, a comet in several pieces, you know, went against Jupiter, the comet Shoemaker-Levy 9.
If this planet, billions of years ago, was part of another star system, and maybe because of the star exploded and became before a red giant; and maybe later, you know, there was another transformation, maybe this planet left his star system. That’s why, you know, the solar gravitation could affect this planet.
KC: Okay. But let me ask you something. Because, what we want to know is, what would the Jesuit say to Barbato, who you said is very “difficult”? He’s very careful as a researcher and he must have some scientific basis. He’s written articles on science. So, he must have questioned the Jesuit to say, you know: How can this be? Do you know what kind of evidence the Jesuit gave him other than the video tape that shows...
LS: He gave him the pictures, for example.
LS: [points to magazine photo of the Aurora] That one. He gave him...
KC: But did he give him scientific data, that you know of?
LS: I don’t think that he gave to him scientific data, but the scientific data are under our eyes, because... First of all, I told you, Robert Sutton Harrington, was an astronomer interested in Planet X.
KC: Mm hm.
LS: He was not the only one. Another one is Patrick Moore, the famous scientific astronomer. He wrote just a few lines about Planet X. But what he wrote... If you read what Patrick Moore, the British astronomer wrote about Planet X, you say: Yes, it may exist.
And there are other people, who are, you know, a little bit interested. For example, a few weeks ago, New Scientist, one of the major British magazines, wrote an article about the possibility of Planet X. And, in the article, there is a discussion about recent work made by a mathematician and physicist, who comes from Brazil. He is an Italian Brazilian scientist, who now is working in Japan. He earned a PhD in Earth and Planetary Science at Kobe University and he is working on the possibility of Planet X.
For example... Just a moment. [gets up to take book off of shelf] This one is an old book written in 1926, and published again many times. This is the edition of 1944. The title is The Elements of Astronomy. It is written by an astronomer, Edward Arthur Faith, Professor of Astronomy in Carleton College. I bought this book in the United States of America, in Florida. And, at page 221 there is something about Pluto. And I read for you. It’s talking about Pluto mass, which was not known in the last century until 1978, when Christie and Harrington found out Charon. Quote: The mass is uncertain [the mass of Pluto], but according to Wiley it is approximately that of the Earth. They thought that the mass of Pluto has the mass of the Earth.
[reading] If the mass has more as this, it could neither have produced the perturbation which Lowell found for Uranus... (Lowell is the scientist who invented the expression “Planet X”) ...nor those Pickering found for Neptune. It is therefore possible that a much more massive planet still remains to be found. The search is being continued at the Lowell Observatory.”
This is a scientific book. The mass of Pluto is lower than the mass of the Earth, much lower. This is scientific data.
BR: One of the problems here is that the term “Planet X” is being used in different ways by different astronomers. Some of them are talking it as being Planet X, the unknown planet and also some of them are referring to it as the 10th planet that is actually beyond Pluto or Charon.
LS: There are thousands of celestial bodies beyond Pluto, because they belong to the Kuiper Belt Objects.
LS: The problem is: Are we talking about a celestial body which returns into our solar system as a comet? Or are we talking about a celestial body, very massive. You know?
LS: Outside the solar system. This is the main question.
BR: Yes. But you didn’t answer my question. I have to say this because if we include this in the interview, our listeners will notice that you didn’t answer. It is: How can life exist...
BR: ...on this object as far away from the sun as it is?
LS: How can we get to the Moon? Because of, we develop the space technology, we develop the space flight. I mean, what I’m talking about... If other extraterrestrial races reached a good level of technology, and, you know, they don’t destroy each other like we are doing on our planet - because we are not able, it seems, to manage the sources of our planet. If they are able to survive to the point, the critical point of utter destruction, they can survive in any condition. Any condition. Because they can, you know... They can build underground facilities. They can build mother ships.
Under natural conditions, the answer is: Not for intelligent life like us. But under artificial conditions, under the surface of the planet – yes. Because we developed, you know, a very sophisticated civilization. We are able to reach the satellite; we send space probes into deep space. We are able, you know, to fly in the atmosphere and out the atmosphere. This is my, you know, possible answer to your question.
If this race comes from another star system, they survived, maybe under the surface, and they have many outposts, maybe even in our solar system, maybe Mars, maybe, you know, on Jupiter’s satellites. And maybe, they have outposts even here on Earth, even now.
LS: This is a political problem, a political issue.
BR: In the Jesuit Footage, there’s a small object that is clearly shown. It looks like a small moon, or space craft, or...
LS: The problem is that during, you know... The frames are... You know, it’s a footage. So you are frame-by-frame. You know? We are talking about thousands and thousands of frames. But the behaviour of that object is not a behaviour of a possible satellite. Because all of a sudden, the object - the mysterious object - appears. And after a few seconds, the object disappears.
So, if the footage is real, is a real observation in deep space of a planetoid, it means that we are facing a possible space craft which is able to materialize and dematerialize. The problem is: Is it an authentic footage or a fake?
[laughs] What Barbato told us is that he checked the credential of his whistleblower, his deep throat. [speaks slowly and with emphasis] He was really a Jesuit on duty in the Vatican. This is the most ...
BR: Does the Jesuit SAY what that object was? Or was Barbato just able to guess?
LS: Nothing that I know about it.
BR: Another question I’d like to ask you is: Are you familiar with the testimony of Dr. Bill Deagle?
LS: Bill Deagle?
BR: Deagle, Bill Deagle.
LS: No, I’m sorry.
BR: Okay. Let me summarize the reason for the question, very clearly. He says... And he’s worked on the inside for the American government for many years, and now he’s a whistleblower. He says that the Jesuits are at the top of the pyramid of all the intelligence agencies in the world. He talks about “Project” Omega - that’s what he says. And he says, as well, that the Jesuits are running and controlling the South Pole telescope, which is in existence specifically to observe the incoming object. Do you have any comment on record about any of that at all?
LS: There is one aspect of all this affair, on which Barbato didn’t say anything. And I am surprised that all the ufologists, all the presumed researchers, didn’t want to investigate. Because I can understand, you know. For example, I wrote many articles. But I didn’t write anything about what I am talking about. I’m talking about the three letters that you see in the introduction to the Jesuit Footage: SVS.
What the Jesuit told Barbato in the interview that the Jesuit granted to Barbato - because after the interview that Barbato granted to me in September 2006, if I remember well - Barbato, on his website, spread the interview that the Jesuit granted to him. And he said that the kernel of all the secret societies now on our planet is SVS. Nobody wrote a single line on the subject. Barbato didn’t say anything more because of, maybe... I can understand him. If it is a sensitive...
KC: What can it be, though? If you know something about all of this - SVS?
LS: I don’t know anything about this. But I can tell you something. Think about Dr. Steven Greer’s researches. He said, many times, we are destroying our planet, because our technology is based on fuels, you know? We burn our fuels. Maybe there are extraterrestrial intelligence that found out other source of energy so we can stop the energy crisis.
WHY, until now, all, you know, the alternative source of energy, cannot find enough space in our society? Because there is so much interest in, you know, “take advantage of the oil.”
Question: Is it possible that there is something that doesn’t want that free energies, you know, can become familiar? Yes? Of course. And do you think that these people are acting by secrecy, or are acting in another way, in front of the public? Of course not. If they do this...
KC: Didn’t Steven Greer also say in his book...
KC: His recent book...
KC: Something about the Jesuits? That he was approached by a person who said...
LS: Yes. He had a meeting in the past. He wrote this in one of his chapters, Hidden Truth, Forbidden Knowledge, if I remember the title of the book. And he said that in the first years of the ‘90s, last century, he had a meeting. And one of the insiders of the “black world” said to him: If I want to know something more, I have to talk to some Jesuits. And, this came out AFTER Barbato’s testimony. So this is an indirect confirmation of what Barbato told us. And, I am very surprised that Dr. Steven Greer didn’t say anything about Barbato’s testimony.
Another thing that I want to point out. It appears that this, you know, SVS possible structure, could be the famous Shadow Government, you know? How many people talk about: There is a shadow government. What is it? Who are these people? Maybe for the first time we have an evidence, a strong evidence, that it exists.
And, let me tell you something else. This footage was - according to what I understood – was... How do you say... intercepted by the Jesuit who contacted Barbato. And this SVS structure is not a legal structure.
If a secret service in the Vatican exists, you know, it exists by secrecy, but it is a legal structure. I mean, the Vatican administration, if they have created a secret service, they have done this in the past, but, you know, Pope after Pope... You can imagine how many dossiers were prepared for the next Pope. So we are talking about a secret structure which is perfectly legal.
But if, you know, somewhere, another structure came out, like this presumed SVS... Yes. Maybe this is one of the reasons why [claps hands loudly] the Jesuit, and the other colleagues, came out.
Listen, guys, we have different problems. One is the coming of Planet X. Another one is that other people decided to do something. In the countries of the world, we doubt the knowledge of the people. And maybe these people are responsible for the situation that we are facing NOW. Maybe - this is my point of view - maybe 9/11 is related to this.
I cannot imagine that the only reasons for which United States of America are losing so many lives of his sons, you know, young guys, soldiers, and killing civilians by chance - not by chance - and losing their reputation in front of the world ... because in the last years, after 9/11, the US administration lost so many reputation because of its decisions ... I cannot imagine that the only reasons are economics. Are, you know, taking advantage of the fuel. No. It is not possible. Of course, a lot of money, you know, this is one reason. But, you know, I’m sure that the 9/11, Planet X, and this possible structure are pieces of one big puzzle. This is my opinion.
A Conversation with Gorbachev
KC: You have a picture behind you, of a man.
KC: And I would like you to tell us the story that you told us earlier.
LS: Yes. On your left, over there, there is my formal identification card of a meeting which took place in Venice on a Venice island, in the Venetian Lagoon, in June 2006. The title was Media - Between Citizens and Power. I was correspondent for Gruppo Editoriale Olimpia, who published several magazines. Two of them are Tecnologia & Difesa (Technology & Defense). And another one is UFO Notiziario, for which I wrote several articles until 2006. For these two magazines, Tecnologia & Difesa (Technology & Defense) and UFO Notiziario, I was colleagues from them in those days.
So, I participated to the press conference held by Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev, in June 2006. And I was so lucky that I found a little space to make questions to the former President of Soviet Union. And when I took the microphone... [points to framed photo of Gorbachev on wall] This picture... I made this pictures. This is a detail of several pictures that I have taken in that day. And when I took the microphone, I stood up in front of everybody. There were maybe 40, 50 journalists, Italian journalists, even some TV. And I asked him about his conversation with Ronald Reagan in Geneva in 1985.
My question was all about the declarations, outstanding declarations, made about Paul Hellyer, Former Minister of Defense of Canada. Anyway, I was talking about Ronald Reagan and his mentions to a possible alien threat, a possible alien planet. Because Ronald Reagan made several statements - I think there are five - about a possible threat to the humanity, to the mankind, from an alien planet.
And, during my speech, little speech, Gorbachev interrupted: Yes, yes, I know. You know Ronald Reagan talked about this stuff with me. So I said to Gorbachev: Yes, I know, in Geneva, in 1985. At that time, it was the first meeting, the first summit, between Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan. And then, later on, I continued and I asked him: And YOU talked about a possible alien threat - an extraterrestrial invasion. I didn’t use these terms.
But anyway, I pointed out that even he talked about the possible extraterrestrial threat. And I asked him, Is it true? Is it correct? And he didn’t answer. He didn’t answer. He said: I don’t remember. I don’t remember. According to me, it means: It’s better if we change the discussion.
But anyway, he was a gentleman. Why? Because he didn’t deny. He didn’t deny, in spite of when I asked him a comment about the declaration made by Paul Hellyer, the former Minister of Defense in Canada. And the former Minister, Paul Hellyer, said that George Bush and his administration is preparing an inter-galactic war. Which, you know, sounds ridiculous. But if this statement is made by a former politician leader of an important country, it doesn’t sound ridiculous, according to me.
Anyway, at the end, he answered to me about the possible threat of the NEOs - the Near Earth Objects - and about the Paul Hellyer declaration. He said something like this: We are in the range of hypothesis. Which is, you know, it was an honest point of view, but you know, which shows it’s better [makes palms-forward, holding-off gesture], you know; or, he’s not interested, or he wants to change the subject.
But the most important thing is that later on, in October 2006 if I remember, he was hosted by a television program. On that occasion, in front of the Italian public, on TV, in front of the journalists - because all the journalists had a factor at that time - asked him something about UFOs and his conversation with Reagan. He recollect him... he remembered, you know, those days, and he told, you know, a little bit more about the meeting with Ronald Reagan, and what Ronald Reagan said to him about a possible threat.
At that time, you know, there was a cold war in the Soviet Union and the United States of America could not find, you know, anything that can stop the cold war. Gorbachev said in front of the Italian public on TV: That time, we were in the garden of the villa in Geneva, in November 1985, and we were discussing a lot, you know, and during a private conversation, we were walking. At a certain point, Ronald Reagan stopped and said, “Listen to me, Gorbachev. But if now, suddenly from the space, there was an attack from somewhere, can we put our forces together? Can we stay together?”
And Gorbachev said: I don’t know what you think, but yes, I think we can do it.
They are not the exact words that he said, but this is the meaning. What does it mean? It means that in the middle, you know, of difficult times - there was the cold war, there was the Iron Curtain - Ronald Reagan and Gorbachev in an official meeting, you know, they talked about a possible alien threat to the humankind, to the mankind, to the humanity. And... Gorbachev didn’t deny this.