Unplugging The Patriarchy
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March 10, 2011
This is Bill Ryan from Project Avalon. And it’s the 10th of
March, 2011. And this is a Project Avalon interview with a little bit
of a difference. And it’s certainly different for me. It’s
fascinating for me. And here I am with Lucia René who has
recently written a book that’s had quite an impact. And the
title of this book is Unplugging
And that’s also going to be the title of this video. And Lucia
is here with me. Hello, Lucia.
BR: Can I... can I shake your hand? [they shake hands]
LR: Ohhh. That’s beautiful.
BR: It’s a delight to meet you. Met you for the first time
yesterday. You come very highly recommended. And the topic which you
have your attention on, and which you’re presenting in the
book, as I understand it, is about the role of men and the role of
women in the changing times, which we are absolutely right at the
tipping point of right now. And the interpretation which you have
about that, that could really help a lot of people understand what’s
happening, with a historical perspective and also a view into the
future. Is that anywhere close to a little, kind of micro-summary, if
LR: Oh, it’s very close. Absolutely. Yeah. I’m.. and I
that’s exactly the place to begin, is understanding,
historically, where we find ourselves at this moment, because we are
at not only the end of the patriarchal era, right, but we’re at
the end of a cycle of time. So, the Hindus... They call it the ‘Kali
Yuga,’ the age of greatest darkness. Kali is the goddess of
destruction. And so, we live in a time when everything is ending. Not
the Earth is ending, as many people predict. That’s ridiculous.
But time is ending. The cycle is ending. Right?
entirely new is about to be given birth, or is in the process, you
could almost say, of being in the birth canal. So, my message to
people, that I try to convey, is really one of pulling back out of
the personal self, because the personal self takes life very
personally. [chuckles] That’s its job. Right? We’ve been
conditioned to think ourselves as this personal self, with likes and
dislikes. But if we just take a moment and we pull back into a more
universal perspective, and we look at the Earth, as the astronauts
reported looking at her, in all of her beauty. And in that silence
and in that lack of gravity, that moment. Right?
we say, ‘Where is she? Where is she in her evolution?’
She’s merely at the end of a cycle of time. And we’re
about to give birth to something new. So, six thousand years we have
a matrilinear era. Now we’re in a patriarchal era. And
‘patriarchy’ simply means male-dominated society. That’s
all. No judgment. No... no, no... particular emphasis on masculine or
feminine, except that the masculine has been in power for some time.
And that the planet is going through or... I suppose it would be more
accurate to say, humanity
is going through a period of time, where it is learning lessons about
power. That’s all.
BR: It sure is.
LR: Yeah. And that’s ending. And now we’re moving into an
era, where we will be learning lessons about the heart. Yup.
BR: Okay. So, to compress that all into another
micro-summary, if I
dare, it’s pointing out the fact that the world, as we have
inherited it, as we come in here, in these bodies, this generation,
this incarnation. And here we are. And it’s a world that’s
been created by men, for men. And that structure’s been in
place for really quite a long time.
BR: And that’s way out of balance. It results in a lot of
aggression, a lot of violence, a lot of exploitation, a lot of... a
lot of things happening in the world, for as long as history can
record, that shouldn’t have been happening. And somewhere in
there, there’s the opportunity for humanity as a whole to learn
a whole load of stuff. And do you feel that we have learned whatever
that whole load of stuff is? Is this part of the prerequisites for a
LR: Yes. I agree with you entirely, except I’d put a
different slant on it. And I don’t really judge the violence or
the constructs of the patriarchy. I think all of that has been
necessary. I do think it’s gotten a wee bit out of hand.
BR: That’s sound like a... [laughs] That sounds like the
understatement of the millennium.
LR: [laughs louder] But I... If you’re learning about
a mystic. So mystics... Mysticism is the study of power. It’s
the art of learning how to wield power. And there are many different
aspects to learning about it.
BR: And ‘power’ doesn’t have to be a dirty word.
LR: No. It’s not at all. It simply means energy or chi.
force. We only have a negative connotation or a spin around the word
‘power’ in the patriarchy, because we look around
ourselves and see abuse of power at the present time. Right? But
power, you’re learning about how to gain power, how to avoid
the loss of power, how to reclaim power from other lives, how to
ultimately, the mystic gets to the point where they must learn about
abuse of power, because unless the child has walked up to the stove
and put its hand on the stove and realized that’s not something
that’s smart to do. Right? Then you really can’t come
into a place where, as a person, you are able to wield power in a
balanced way. And ultimately, to where you are able to transfer
power, to actually transmute someone’s consciousness through
power, because power is not of
us. It simply comes through
really comes from the Divine, from the depths of silence. And so, it
can move through and be wielded. It’s wielded through the lower
chakras, but with the balance of the heart. And that’s what
we’re lacking now.
if we are now moving into an era which is heart-based, which is
unconditional love. The heart is really about balance. Masculine,
feminine balance. Balance in all areas of life. Being in the ‘still
point.’ Yes? So then, we, as Society, have hopefully have grown
into a point where we are ready to wield power with balance. And yes,
I think that’s coming. I think humanity has learned its lesson.
BR: Okay. Now, some of the people watching this, will be
followers of my
own work, and will be unfamiliar with yours. And so, there’s a
bridge here that I’d like to kind of construct, with your
assistance, because my work, over the last five years with Project
Avalon or Project Camelot – it’s been about... [sighs]
about pulling back the black curtain of secrecy and control and lies
that we’ve been told, and hidden agendas from those people in
the military and in government and in the intelligence services,
almost all of whom are men, of course.
LR: Mm-hm, mm-hm.
BR: Because they have agendas. They have plans. They have
whatever reasons, about how they
would like the world to be.
there is a huge majority of the human race who, if they were to know
about these things, [would] say, ‘Wait a minute. We don’t
give this our agreement at
Why are you doing this to
us?’ And so, of course, all of that is about power.
the bridge that I’d like to build, is because of a lot of
people watching this and have the opportunity to be introduced to
your work, are people who have been following what could loosely be
called ‘conspiracy theories,’ the ways in which power has
been abused in the world, for a very long time. But a lot of people
are focused on what’s happening right
And even the man in the street will know that there’s something
fishy about [sighs] Kennedy’s assassination, or about 9-11. And
it’s like, wait a minute. They don’t have the full story at
but they know enough to think, ‘Well, you know, maybe there’s
a little bit of a fire behind the smoke, but we’re too busy to
understand all the details.’
what we’re trying to do, in the work that I have with my own
colleagues, is to kind of present more clarifying information to
de-confuse people, with the objective of giving people their power
back, because you can’t have power if you’re in
ignorance. Certainly not. And so, can you, then, help me build the
other side of the bridge across to that place, where some people
watching this will be starting from?
LR: Mmh. Well, yes. I think the key is duality. We can
take it down to a
very simple level. The patriarchy, and indeed the era that we’ve
just come through, or rather the cycle, that we’ve just come
through, is about duality. So, polar opposites. Yes? And classically,
in spiritual literature, we call this ‘attraction and
aversion.’ So, we are attracted to be in happy states of mind
and we avoid being in unhappy states of mind. Yes. We have masculine,
feminine. Good and evil. Right? We have power and abuse of power. So
the world is filled with polarities. We perceive the world through
the polarities that we hold within our own egoic structure, within
our own personality. Yes?
BR: And we expect them to be everywhere, because we’re
BR: This is like part of our filter, isn’t it? We’re kind
told to expect this kind of reality, ever since we’re kids.
LR: It starts when you’re extremely young, this
functioning in a world of duality. So, we don’t see the world
as it really is. If we did, if we entered into a very high
meditation, and we’re looking at this flower. And the flower is
just radiant light, really. You enter into a field where you can see
the essence of flower. Right? But we don’t see that, because
we’ve been told, ‘This is what a flower is. This is what
it looks like.’ Yeah.
LR: And we buy into that as children.
BR: So, what you’re trying to do is, to break the hypnotic
as it were.
LR: Yes. I’m saying there’s some place – and I’m
not saying anything new – but there’s some place in the
center, in balance between every polarity. Right? That then, when you
arrive there, you are viewing life more accurately. So, all I’m
saying is that, yes, it’s fine to educate ourselves about
conspiracy theory and what is happening and to pull back the ‘Wizard
of Oz’ curtain.
what I do in my book, is I go into a lot of research about what’s
going on. And I take the reader through my own journey of discovery.
So, it really is all laid out, the overview, the kind of
popping-the-hood on the patriarchy and looking at the way the engine
works, from a mystical and psychic point of view.
BR: That’s a great metaphor. [You said,] ‘Popping the hood
BR: That’s beautiful. I love it.
LR: It’s popping the hood on the patriarchy.
BR: Popping the hood on the patriarchy.
LR: Yeah. [laughs]
BR: That could be another book title, isn’t it? The
LR: Once you take the spin off. Right? Most people have
the spin of
‘this is bad.’ Power and abuse of power is bad. It’s
not bad. That’s just an opinion that is born out of a field of
LR: Yes. So, it’s very much about perception. And if all
polarities... If I have managed to bring them all to rest here, then
I can look at the patriarchy without judgment of any kind, without
spin of any kind. And I can see what we were talking about earlier.
We’re simply at the end of a cycle. It’s time for this to
go away. We’ve completed our learning in this area. Yeah?
BR: Now, here come a whole bunch of questions. But the
first one, I
guess, is ‘How did it get to be this way?’ How is it
that, of the two choices available, men basically started to run the
planet, and apparently, abused the power that they did have. And... I
mean, for me, it certainly feels like abuse, and it feels like it’s
way out of balance and it feels like it was time to stop, a long time
BR: And I understand you have a slightly kind of – dare I
say it –
more Zen-like perspective on this. But... How did it all start? Where
did it go wrong?
LR: Well, you have to take a deep breath here. [laughs]
Because we need
to go back beyond the patriarchy to the matrilinear era of some 6,000
years ago, and that was a female... I don’t know if I want to
say ‘dominated...’ but females led in that era. And
perhaps it, too, got out of balance. Right? Well, we had our
learnings around that. Really, you need to go back... I relate it to
the chakras. Can we do that?
BR: [Of course.]
LR: The energy centers.
BR: Yeah, yeah.
LR: So, at the beginning, on the planet Earth, we were
really at a root
chakra-type of stage, which was about learning about survival. Right?
Base instincts. And then, we moved up in the matrilinear era, to
learning about birth and creativity. That’s the energy that
that chakra represents. Right? So, we learned about fire. And we
learned about producing children. Right? And building community and
all sorts of things. Hunting and gathering.
now, we’ve moved up into this era, which is the navel chakra.
So, we’re learning lessons about power, because the navel
chakra is pure power. Right? And we’re rising into this new
era, what some people call the ‘fourth dimension’ or the
new paradigm in consciousness...
LR: ...which is the fourth chakra, and that’s about
unconditional love, and so on.
BR: And that’s... That’s basically the construct on which
you say, ‘This is why the heart is next.’
BR: Because it follows...
LR: Exactly. That...
BR: Fine. Okay.
LR: I’m just looking at it from the vantage point of the
her evolution. Really, what’s happening is simply that her
vibration is increasing. So, each of us on the planet, when we enter
onto a spiritual path, we’re literally drawing the kundalini
energy, the raw power, up through the chakras.
a given meditation, it rises, and then, in a lifetime, we stabilize
it at a particular point. So you may stabilize it at the heart in one
incarnation. And then you come back and you’ve stabilized it,
perhaps, at the third eye. You’ve opened up your third eye, so
now you can be psychic. Maybe in another lifetime, you fully awaken,
so the energy moves up through the crown chakra.
the Earth herself is going through an ascension. And in her ascension
process, she’s moving from the navel chakra to the heart
chakra. It’s a huge
shift – right? – in the energy of the planet. Yeah.
BR: Okay. So, you’re presenting this as an inevitable
BR: ...in a way. Yeah? That this had to happen and it’s a
natural... and, in itself, it’s all a huge natural cycle.
LR: Oh, yeah.
BR: And there’s nothing wrong about it. It’s just a growth
BR: For all of our current civilization.
LR: Yeah. Absolutely. But, I think, to distinguish the
point, that it
really is the journey of Mother Earth that we’re looking at...
We just happen to be living on her. And we can either fight against
that or we can benefit from it. Yes? We can use that acceleration in
the vibration of the Earth to also accelerate our own evolution.
Especially now, we’re at a very key time in this process, when
people can make extraordinary evolutionary jumps.
BR: Okay. So, let’s go back to what you were saying, that
BR: ...if I understand you right, you said that there
there was a matriarchy.
BR: And maybe that wasn’t all in balance. But there was a
way back sometime... in our history. Is that right? I mean, is this
something you can nail down to civilization that are known in
LR: Yes. I think Crete was the last known matrilinear
LR: And they’re wonderful. They’re mostly women art
historians who have written books like Merlin Stone – When
God Was a Woman.
And Anne Baring – The
Myth of the Goddess.
When they go back... Because we didn’t have writing. Writing is
an advent of more recent times.
LR: The whole left brain-oriented culture. And so we were
more in a
right brain or a balanced situation, then. But you can go back and
look at the art and see the great mother goddess and the fact that
the feminine, the divine feminine, was not only accepted, but
worshipped and revered in those societies.
BR: So what changed?
LR: So what changed, in my estimation – and this is a
we bring forward in Unplugging
which really, for me, was...
BR: Here’s the book. You’re allowed to hold it up. [hands
her a copy of the book]
LR: Yes! Oh good! I’ll just do a little advertisement.
is. [holds the book facing the camera] Yeah.
the most significant scene that we did, which really shifted
everything for the women involved, because it’s really about a
collaboration of women, who are very concerned about what’s
going on, on the planet. And who have been trained from lifetime to
lifetime, as mystics, and to do certain, you might say, an
engineering job, at the end of a cycle of time. Right? So, my
teacher, Rama, who was my teacher in this and other lifetimes, he
said – and I begin the book this way – at the end of a
cycle of time, Shiva, the god of death, the Hindu god of death, tap
dances on our head. [laughs] But at the end of a cycle, certain
energetic configurations go away, and other energetic configurations
come into being.
LR: So, the patriarchy is laid on a foundation of
And the job of these three women was to go in and dismantle those
structures. Now, we’re speaking on an energetic level, not a
physical level. Right?
LR: But we did look at the constructs that have to do with
media and industry and so on. The control of natural resources. It’s
all here. But we explore it, not only in terms of the research about
the physical, but we drill down into it, in a mystical and psychic
LR: So, it was our, really, our job to take apart that
And then it takes some time for those changes to filter down into the
physical world. And I feel that that’s what we’re seeing
now. We’re seeing the unraveling in the physical – right?
– that started some time ago. Through our work... our work was
more... I mean, my point is, through thousands of lightworkers’
BR: Of course.
LR: But we were trained to do a very specific job, which
is sort of like
a bomb squad, really. If you have a ticking time bomb in the
patriarchy, then you don’t send in the healers that day. You
send in mystics who are very cool-headed, and they know exactly which
wires to snip. Right?
LR: Yeah. And that’s their job, and they do it. And then
done. So... But to answer your question, if we go back to this very
significant realization that we had. It was that women held the reins
of power. And in order to understand that statement, you have to
understand the difference between the configuration of the masculine
and the feminine embodiment. Yes?
LR: So masculine embodiment means you have a different
You also have a different subtle physical body. Feminine subtle
physical body is very different than the masculine subtle physical
body. At the core, of course, we’re all the same. Right?
BR: Of course. Yes.
LR: We’re all the divine. Right? There is no difference.
no masculine and feminine, from that way of perceiving it. But we
live in a world of duality, and so, we have to examine that. And so,
women, intrinsically, are oriented to these lower chakras.
is 180 degrees-reversed in the patriarchy. Right?
so, the conditioning that a woman is given, is that she is not
powerful, that she is a second-class citizen, that she is overly
emotional. Right? She should know her place.
in essence, if you strip away all of that conditioning, and you look
at a woman’s configuration, her spiritual configuration, her
essence is power. She knows how to pull power up from silence, from
the depths of the Earth. She knows how to hold that in her body. She
knows how to wield that through the navel chakra, with the balance of
the heart. Right?
man is, on a psychic and spiritual level, completely different. Of
course, he’s conditioned in a patriarchal society to believe he
must always be strong. He must shut down the emotional body. He’s
the bread winner. Right? He’s in control. He has the right to
oppress. Yeah. But, in essence, if you strip all of that away and
look at a man, he’s very much focused on his heart.
BR: Where does that come from? There will be a lot of
to you just now, who followed you right up to that last moment. It’s
like, ‘Wait a minute. The focus of a man is on his heart, if
you strip away all the other stuff?’ Where does that come from,
and how do we see that out there? Is this a reality anywhere?
LR: Well it’s a psychic perception.
LR: I don’t know that there’s any way to quantify it or to
intellectualize it, because psychic is a tool. Right?
LR: So we have a mental body that’s really just a logical
course, throughout the patriarchy, it’s been told, it’s
supposed to run the whole show and make all decisions.
LR: But really, it was created to be a logical tool, to
make a grocery
list or do your income tax or write a computer program. That’s
it. Right? [laughs] We have an emotional body...
BR: [takes a deep breath] Mmh. Yes.
LR: ...that gets played like a harp. Very valuable. But we
also have a
psychic body. So, it’s another way of apprehending knowledge.
LR: Yeah? And so, as a psychic, if someone has their third
eye open, and
they can strip away the conditioning, just let all the conditioning
fall. And they scan someone and look. What is the essence of this man
sitting across from me? Right? It’s very obvious that it’s
that’s why most men, when they begin on a spiritual path, they
study Bhakti yoga, which is the yoga of the heart, of love and
devotion. And then they graduate to studying Yana yoga, which is the
yoga of discrimination, where you move beyond even love, even the
highest vibration, into the clear light. Right? That’s a man’s
BR: So, why is it, then, that so many men are clanking
battleship-grade armor, such that the heart can neither be seen nor
can communicate out. Why is it that this happens? Are you saying that
this is all cultural conditioning?
LR: Mm-hm. Well, you can answer that question better than
BR: I want you to answer that question.
LR: I assume it’s all cultural conditioning.
BR: Wow. Okay.
LR: I haven’t had many male incarnations. [laughs]
BR: Right. [pause] It’s... I mean, it’s a whole
topic. What it is to be a man in the 21st century, is itself a whole
study. And what I can... what I feel I can see – and I haven’t
studied this in the way that you have. You have meditated on this
it’s very clear to me that a lot of men nowadays, they don’t
know how to be. They’ve lost the rule book. They’re
confused. They don’t know what’s expected of them. They
don’t know how to be whatever it is to be truly masculine,
because they’re confused by Hollywood movies and archetypes and
comic strips and a whole bunch of stuff that’s been coming at
them, ever since they were kids. And they know that that’s not
right. But they don’t know what is
in my experience, there are a lot of men who go around with as much
of an act as they can get together, to keep it together from day to
day. And if you strip all that away, they’re deeply
at a risk, I would be saying, that those deeply confused men are
really hoping that they will encounter some woman who will be able to
help them with this. And... But here, we’re... This is such a
complicated and convoluted and sometimes highly-charged area, that, I
think, that many of those men don’t find the high quality of
woman who can understand all of this, in the way that you can.
that’s my off-the-top-of-the-head response. What does that feel
like to you?
LR: It feels exactly right. And I think that the root of
the problem for
men, is that they have been conditioned, as you say, from childhood,
to shut down the emotional body.
the whole idea of giving up that sort of prominent, dominant position
in relationship, is very threatening. And it brings up a lot of
emotions, and then, immediately, the tendency is, ‘This can’t
be.’ To stuff it. Yeah?
LR: And, in order to work through that process and come
understanding, a deeper spiritual understanding of who one is, as a
man, one must
be willing to be vulnerable enough to open up the emotional body.
BR: Oh yeah.
LR: Yeah. So... I...
BR: That’s hugely
LR: Yeah. I... As we were discussing last night, I
actually think that
throwing off masculine conditioning is harder than for a woman
throwing off female conditioning. It’s the same for women. The
package. The ‘pink’ package is very different than the
‘blue’ package.’ [laughs]
BR: The blue package. Yeah.
LR: But... So, because women... But, you really have to
look at it,
don’t you, in terms of oppressed and oppressor, if we’re
being honest. And I think we need to be, in this discussion. So, and
again, I don’t say that with any judgment, whatsoever, because
I think that we’ve gone through a learning. This [laughs]
realization that we came to – yes? – which we keep
skirting. We keep getting sidetracked in these wonderful areas.
let me just say this, because it may help to clarify, is that women
who were wielding power, who held the reins of power at the end of
the matrilinear era, they saw it was a collective seeing, a deep
collective spiritual understanding, that in order to rise from the
second chakra – learning about birth and creativity – to
the heart chakra – about balance... To come through this whole
saga of learning about power. Right? That the reins of power would
have be handed off to men. That men would need to be handed the
reins, in order to learn about power in all of its different aspects.
And that involves the child putting its hand on the stove and taking
it away, which is what is happening now. Right?
BR: [sighs] That was my very next question, because there
will again be some people watching this. You say, well... We don’t
see too many signs that this is all going to be over tomorrow.
BR: Of course, there are signs of great change in the
world. People can
feel this. There is a huge awakening of consciousness. You can
ascribe all kinds of language to that.
we’re still in the middle
of that transition. It’s not over yet, at all, it seems to me.
LR: Well, it...
BR: And you’ve the militaries and you’ve got government
you’ve got the intelligence agencies, and the businesses and
the ban... I mean, they’re all men, and they’re all
there, and they haven’t quit their jobs yet.
BR: And there’s a lot of evidence that they want to hang
in a kind of... I mean, they may be confused and they may be
desperate, but they’re hanging on, aren’t they?
LR: Yes, but we have to look at it from two different
the physical world, what you say it true. Right?
the inner world, right, each of us has a choice. And one can take up
residence in this new world of heart-based energy, immediately. They
can take up residence tomorrow. One could, if one made that deep
inner decision to come into a place of balance. Right? And if you
come into that place of balance within yourself, which is really
try to present that material in my book, because the book is actually
not a book. It’s a mystical experience, which allows someone to
touch on all of those energies, the patriarchal energies, and begin
the process, to whatever degree they’re able and willing, to
unplug their energies from it. Yes?
BR: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
LR: So, if all of my... If I have made an inner decision
to unplug my
energies from a patriarchal paradigm, then I am free to take up
residence in the new world today. And it is like standing at the eye
of the storm. Yes, all of this will come apart. It’s destined
to do so.
LR: And yes, it will be difficult on a physical level.
BR: But you’re saying, basically, that in the spiritual,
metaphysical world, this tipping point has already really taken
place, and it’s going to be a little while before it percolates
down into the physical. This is what you’re saying?
LR: Yes. Into the third dimension, which we’re calling the
BR: Okay. Okay. Okay.
LR: So, this [points at her heart] is really the fourth
chakra, what you
could call the ‘fourth dimension.’ So, this new paradigm
in consciousness has its foundation on the fourth level of
consciousness, which vibrates in a much higher way than the physical,
LR: And that’s just foundation. It’s multi-dimensional
LR: So I’m saying, if you move into the fourth dimension,
third dimension, yeah. It’s going to fall apart. But it really
doesn’t affect you.
BR: Yes. Sure. I understand what you mean, actually. I
us, we need to do as much of an interpretation job to people who
haven’t followed your work so far.
there are massive changes taking place in the invisible world, in the
spiritual world. Once again, we’re talking problems of
language, where there are huge
changes and shifts have taken place in recent years. And, of course,
it all takes a little bit of time to kind of... to ‘percolate
down and manifest.’ That’s the words which I use.
me put you on the spot with a couple of questions, then. Just in real
terms, how long do you feel it would be, before the world, in structural
terms, in terms of power and who’s got the power, really
starts to look different, and what might it look like then? Can you
take a sneak peek into the future and describe it?
LR: I think it’s very difficult to do that, because
so churned up. Everything is so much in a state of upheaval, that
it’s almost impossible. And there are so many different
alternate futures that can play out.
LR: Really, it’s our hands in terms of consciousness. We
ratchet things up as far as we want, in terms of consciousness.
That’s a decision that’s being made on a collective
But I can tell you, I have a very definitive seeing in terms of the energetic
manifestation of it. And that is, that we’re in a period of
time now – we’re at March in 2011. Right? And sometime
near the end of this year, the energies will begin to lock into
place. And I feel that they’re going to completely lock into
place. And I’m talking... I’m going back to those
structures. Remember, we said certain energetic structures go away at
the end of a cycle and others come into being.
the structures coming into being are still morphing and changing and
evolving and ascending, but they will lock into place some time near
the end of 2012. Now, how long will it take the third-dimensional
world to reflect that? We don’t know. It could be five years.
It could be 20 years. I have no sense, but only then will we be
able... Once the patriarchy and those energies completely resolve
themselves and fall apart, only then, I feel, will we able to begin
recycling the aspects of the patriarchy and literally, in the third
dimension, building a new world.
That’s a... Yeah, that’s a lovely vision. So, why did you
call the book Unplugging
Is it because, like this metaphor of unplugging a power cord, so it’s
no longer empowered by everyone else who’s kind of giving their
consent in a tacit kind of way. Are you saying that we withdraw out
consent from this structure. Is that about right?
Because my feeling is, the patriarchy only exists, because we allow
it to exist.
patriarchy’s here. [waves hands over chest area]
brought into the patriarchy, understandably. We’ve been conditioned
to be a part of the patriarchy.
an abusive relationship.
a co-dependent relationship.
I love that. [laughs] It’s a co-dependent relationship!
it is! And you have this situation. You have this classic situation
with an abusive patriarchal man and a woman who is hoping, every day,
that it’s going change tomorrow. And she’s unable to walk
down the street and say, ‘You know what? No more.’ She
can’t do that.
kind of hanging on in there, hoping. And is being a victim in all of
this and isn’t claiming her power back, in a way that she
this has been going on, on a global level.
Exactly. Exactly. If you stopped anyone, even on Wall Street, [an]
analyst today on the street, and you said, ‘Is the system
broken? Does it need to change?’ The answer would be, ‘Yes.’
then, there’s always this implied hesitation and the answer is,
‘As long as it doesn’t affect me.’
long as my stock portfolio doesn’t go down. As long as I can
still put food on the table for my children and pay my mortgage.’
are the important things. Well, I’m sorry! [laughs] Things are
in a state of upheaval.
that may or may not be the case.
the energy of the heart would not be concerned about those things. It
would say, ‘All right. Give me the experience, in the next two
years, that’s going to be the most evolutionary, for my soul.
If that means losing my house. If that means that I have a difficult
time with finance. Perhaps that’s the experience my soul needs
to go through and I’ll accept that with grace and learn from
tough for some people to hear, though, isn’t it?
of course it is. Of course it is. We like our creature comforts,
don’t we? [laughs]
yeah. But your book has been has been seized on and admired and
focused on, and has catalyzed a lot of debate and discussion. It
seems to be the right thing at the right time. Some people have even
said it’s the kind of book that they were waiting for. Right?
What was it that inspired you to write it at this time?
I didn’t write it. I was forced to write it. [laughs] And it...
it was really spirit that wrote it. It’s really the divine
mother – I have to be honest – who wrote the book. Right?
It’s the divine mother speaking through this embodiment [waves
her hands over her chest], this trained mystic. Right? And so, if it
had been up to me, I would have written it in a year, and had it out
on the market, but it would have been premature.
so, every deadline I set, was not met.
it ended up coming out at exactly the right time. Before that, it
would have been speculation. It would have been conspiracy theory.
Now, people are ready. It’s a very systematic analysis of how
the energies of 5,000 years, how this contorted thing came into
being, how all of the energies were inverted and bastardized and
corrupted and polarized. Right? People are now looking for an
explanation as to how that happened and how do I begin to break free
of that. Here, within myself.
Because consciousness is accelerating. It’s ascending. And so,
there is a level of awareness that’s ready, I think, more to
take responsibility for the patriarchy here and to begin to dismantle
it here, knowing that if all of us simply stand up from the
patriarchal monopoly board and stop playing, the game ends. That’s
another beautiful... [laughs] beautiful metaphor, the monopoly board.
So, my confession is that I have not read this book.
It was thrust into my hands with a great enthusiasm, by one of my
closest friends, saying, ‘Listen. You’ve got to read this
book.’ And I will. And I’ve heard that reading the book,
it’s not just a book, actually it’s a personal journey
that people go through, from the first to the last page. And I’ve
heard quite a bit about that and that’s really captured my
attention, because I’m intrigued by this.
from what you have been told, what do women get from reading the book
and what do men get from reading the book?
happens to them?
don’t know if I can speak to that from men reading the book.
Occasionally, I get feedback, an email, of a man who has read the
book, but the book was really for... It’s about women. It was
written by a woman. It was written for women. It was written to model
women reclaiming and standing in their power, because the women in
the book do that. Right?
in my estimation, that’s the first wave of this transition.
Women are on the front lines now, of consciousness. Until women
reclaim their power, throw off their conditioning of being
second-class citizens and really move out onto the front lines, men
won’t have a chance to react to that, and to open up the
emotional body and to process the reaction to the second-class
citizen. Now, we’re coming into equality. So, always, if we are
dealing ... if we go back to that situation of oppression, the
oppressed must throw off the yoke and say, ‘No more. No more.
I’m going to stand. I don’t have to oppose you. I don’t
have to judge you, but if I stand...’ Right?
I simply stand, as you stand in martial arts, in a ready position.
So, I’m not throwing a punch at you. If I do that, I’m
I’m not blocking. I’m also off balance if I block. But if
I simply stand and I meet your energy with exactly the right amount
of energy that you are projecting at me... Right?
counter it. Right? It’s very Ghandi-esque...
I’m proposing, that women simply stand. Right?
allow men to react. Allow men to then process what they need to
process in order to reclaim their heart and come into a more humble
state of mind, where they’re ready, willing and able to come to
the table and accept women as equals and to co-create an egalitarian
society, because we have different gifts. We have different skill
sets. Everyone is needed. There’s no right and wrong here.
We’ve all bought into this out-of-balance system. But really,
it’s women who must take the first move and be strong enough to
allow men to then react against that.
if this book is a manual for the... to assist and support women in
the men need one as well? Or do they just freak out and throw a
tantrum for a few years, with the women just standing there, and
eventually get to the other side of it and then look in the mirror
and find out who they are?
the other point of the book, is to allow someone to read it and, as I
said, touch on all of these different aspects, energetic aspects of
the patriarchy and to begin to unplug themselves from it. Yeah?
that is applicable for a man reading the book, as well as a woman.
There’s no difference, really. But I think a man has to have
the humility to approach a book that’s written about women
doing something that’s incredibly powerful, outrageous, in the
terms of the patriarchal society in which we live... Right?
women coming together and dismantling the patriarchy? How dare you!
It’s sort of like that moment in... that wonderful moment in
‘The Lord of The Rings,’ where Frodo and Sam and Gollum –
they’re at the back door of Mordor. You remember this moment?
Gollum tells them, ‘This gate isn’t guarded, because they
don’t expect anyone to come in here.’
they don’t expect Hobbits to be doing this job. These little
insignificant beings. Right?
yes, yes, yes, yes.
really, they’re the ones with the strength and the tenacity and
they ... the ones who are balanced enough to be able to be able to
carry the ring and not be seduced by its power. You see?
power in a balanced way.
it’s a beautiful likeness, the two.
so, the patriarchy, simply, I don’t think, was expecting women.
They didn’t realize that was their major problem, if you want
to look at it in terms of duality.
So, they didn’t realize, they would slip in through the back
door and accomplish this. [laughs, touches thumb to nose with fingers
outstretched and waves fingers toward Bill in a mocking manner].
like that visual metaphor, as well.
right now, in the world – looking out at the real world through
your [telling] shadow [ed. note: this might be a reference to something
similar to Pennsylvania’s ground hog day legend], your computer or the
movies or the media, or
whatever – do you see real signs that there are more and more
men who, if they were here, part of this conversation, they would
say, ‘You know what, I completely understand and agree and
support what you’re saying.’
see more of this happening?
It’s a really
important question. And I have felt a really huge shift this year.
I’m really happy you’re bringing this up, because there
is an openness that I am feeling, that is coming into my attention
field from the masculine, that’s so welcome and so beautiful. I
know I get emails from women who’ve attended my workshops and
they say... They take the DVD of the workshop home and their husband
or their partner says, ‘Oh, I want to watch it.’ And it
actually goes in.
all about women and female conditioning, but it goes in, because it
begins to lay a foundation for answering what some of these really
basic issues are. Answering the question of why we are so out of
balance and if a man can understand what it has felt like, for a
woman, for 5,000 years, to be repressed. And then if she didn’t
get that she was supposed to be chattel, being burned at the stake.
If he can really start to tap into that energy and understanding his
part of having been part of the perpetration of that – again,
without judgment – it was all simply a learning. Right?
I’ve remembered lifetimes where I put these structures in place
and the realization of how would I know how to take them apart, if I
hadn’t done the dance with the dark forces and helped to put
the patriarchal structures in place that limited consciousness for
humanity. That was huge
until I see that, I can’t balance this [her hand traces her
body’s center line from her top of her head to her lower chest]
within myself. You see?
comes up for me there, is... what was put in place in South Africa,
at the end of apartheid. They had the Truth and Reconciliation
Commission, which wasn’t about punishment. It wasn’t
about blame and it wasn’t about witch hunts. It was just about
saying, ‘Okay. We have to acknowledge what happened here, so we
can move on. This is what I did.’ Now, I’ve got this off
my chest. And sometimes, these things were pretty huge and pretty
it was a flawed process to some degree, but it was probably a more
enlightened process than we’ve seen in that kind of situation
you’re kind of envisaging, almost envisaging something like
this. It’s where, in some way, men or that collective body of
men, whatever they are, they sort of say, in some form, they say,
‘You know what? This is what we’ve done. This really is
the way that it is.’ And maybe, at some point, there will be some
enlightened men who may write books to be a counterpart of yours,
from their point of view. Like this huge kind of apology or
something, or an acknowledgement of their role in this group
learning. Do you think that’s possible, that...?
god. I hope so. I do think that was... it was like a petri dish in
South Africa, what happened with apartheid. In fact, that’s
where my book starts.
Because I go to South Africa and I look into apartheid when I’m
there as a mystic, and I ask to understand, at a deep level, what
that energy was like, because I know it’s a microcosm for the
entire patriarchy. And that was the first moment for me that I really
went into the energy of the patriarchy, with all of its violence and
oppression. And all of the out-of-balance energies really merged with
it and became the patriarchy. That’s what started me on my
so this truth and reconciliation experience that they went through,
it was beautiful,
because really, the only payment for the perpetrators there, in
apartheid, was simply that they come clean, not only in public, but
here [hovers her hands over her chest area] within themselves. So, if
there was an emotional and a psychic and a spiritual breakthrough for
them... Right? If they could say, ‘Yes, I did this. Yes, I
tortured black people and I killed people in prison here, as part of
this regime.’ Right? If there could be a reckoning here [hovers
her hands over her chest area] and a softening... That’s what
they were looking for. They were looking... Those tribunals happened,
and there was a psychic reading taken. Did this person really drop
into balance? Yes. Then forgiveness. Yes?
the person couldn’t get there, then I’m sorry, you have
to pay the penalty. And that’s how it should be.
think that’s what’s happening on the planet, now. We’re
at a stage when darkness is no longer acceptable on this planet.
darkness is being given its agenda, I mean, its ultimatum. We’re
not at a bargaining table here. Right? I know people who are doing
brilliant work in this area and, because we took apart the
structures, our part was engineering. Other people work with the
actual beings who are holding the embodiment of darkness here. And
so, you go to this being and you say, ‘Your time is up.’
I’m going to focus light on you.
you have no choice. So, you can either drop the body and leave. You
can change, as they did in the Truth and Reconciliation movement.
We’re happy. We’re happy to embrace you with light and
bring you into the fold, if you want to play nice in the game.
if you don’t want to play nice, I’m sorry. Time’s
I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’ve done some
of that work myself. It’s happening all over the world. And we
may never know our team mates in this huge endeavor here, because
there are a lot of... I mean, there’s so much work that’s
been happening over the last 10 to 20 years.
thing I’d like to touch on here... it’s this violence and
oppression and compulsive control that we’ve been talking
about, that are characteristics of what you call the patriarchy.
Women are not the only victims. Look at the slave trade. Look at the
holocaust. Look at... all kinds of... genocide. Look at colonialism.
Look at the way that the British went into Africa and shot every lion
they could find, just because they could. Just because they could.
now, we look back on those times and we think, ‘My god. Why did
they do all this?’ It was just... it was a sort of psychotic
compulsion, the way that little boys pull the legs off spiders. I
don’t know if little girls do that, but little boys apparently
that aggression, that desire for control, or that kind of bullying,
on this enormous
scale wasn’t discriminating in its targets, was it? I mean, it
wasn’t just women. It’s just men trashing the entire
planet and every culture they could lay their hands on. Look at the
Conquistadors. Look at the Incas. Look at what happened to the native
Americans. I mean... men have got a lot to answer for. And not all of
it is about women. LR: Mm-hm.
Well, I think what you’re speaking about is really... it’s
not just power, [clears throat] but obsession with power. So, in
mysticism... Again, if you go back, because it’s a study of
power, and I have trained as a mystic for many lifetimes. And so,
this abuse of power, that’s the catalyst for abuse of power, is
obsession with power. You see?
when you become obsessed with power, you’re like a horse with
blinders on. Right?
you really don’t see life accurately. You just have this need
to put... It’s the rush.
It’s like an addict. It’s really a drug, power. And so
there’s this need to pull power in. This idea, who was it, Adam
Weishaupt, in Germany, the head of the Illuminati. Right? And he
said, ‘To control even the best of men, not just the ordinary
man, but to know that...’
Weishaupt. ‘To know that I can control even the best of men.’
So, that’s this obsession, this rush that comes with knowing I
could be king of the world. Right?
that completely cuts off the heart chakra.
Yes. Sure. There’s a real cycle of abuse here, isn’t
there. I remember, for instance, many years ago, I was working with a
guy, because I used to be a management consultant and stuff. I used
to do a lot in leadership and executive training. Used to work with a
lot of men, of course. Men who were struggling with their own power
position as leaders of organizations and so on.
remember talking to one guy who was just
to do everything that he possibly could do. And he... and, of course,
with somebody who is compulsively driven, they never get to a point
when they’re satisfied. You always need to have more. And I got
to the point... I asked him... I finally got to the point, when I
asked the question – what is it that’s powering this
relentless motivation to you, to make it to the very, very top? And
he was silent for a little while, and he said, ‘I’m
trying to prove to my father that I’m not a failure.’
then I asked him, ‘What does your father say about this?’
His father died 20 years ago, and he’s still trying to prove,
to this ghostly concept that is hovering in time, this judgmental
father, who, himself, is a patriarch who’s judging his son. And
then you get this cycle of abuse that the son, somehow, feels that
he’s got to live up to his father’s expectations. And the
thing never ends. And it’s like, how do you break those cycles?
that’s male conditioning you’ve just described.
aspect of male conditioning, yeah, which is... I... My my self worth
is based on and how successful I am. Right?
And behind that, there’s the fear.
behind that, is the fear that maybe his father was right. Maybe he
was a no good, lazy, whatever. And so, if anyone has to prove
something, behind it is always the fear that maybe they can’t.
Yes. And that’s the fear of balance. And so, then, if we want
to take that equation and look at it, in terms of what’s
happening today, it really could be tracked back to fear of the
of... Misogyny. Right? Yeah.
A lot of men... Now, here, again, I’m laying myself wide open
to mass castigation...
I think a lot of men... I mean, it would be an overstatement to say
they’re frightened of women. But that kind of man that I was
trying to describe earlier, who’s actually confused, who
doesn’t know exactly who he is, how he’s meant to be in
society, how he’s meant to be a father or as a husband or as a
partner or as a citizen. He doesn’t really know what’s
expected of him any more. Is he meant to be macho? Is he meant to buy
roses every day? What’s he meant to do? Is he meant to be the
breadwinner? Is he meant to be tough? Is he meant...? Men don’t
have a manual for this.
then, sometimes, in certain circumstances, certainly, that man is
actually really quite frightened of a woman who seems to be more
balanced than he is and who might be able to offer him advice or to
support him or to correct him or to point things out that he doesn’t
know. These are all very hard for the male ego to take.
of course, that’s a bridge into the next part of this
conversation, which is this archetypal construct which is the male
ego. This is a word that you haven’t used yet. Where does that
fit into things? Is it different from the female ego? Is the male ego
wrapped up in this whole construct that you’ve been describing?
Is this the source of the problem?
ego... the egoic structure. We all have an egoic structure. We share
that in common, but it’s just that the conditioning is very,
very different, in the pink package, and the blue package. Right?
as you were talking, what I was thinking about, was really the fear
of the feminine. It’s not so much external. It expresses itself
that way, but it’s the fear of the feminine here [hovers her
hand over her sternum]. If it’s a male embodiment, then it’s
the fear of the feminine here [points to her heart] and all the male,
during the patriarchy, has heard about the feminine, is that it is
weaker. It is the weaker sex. It is a second-class citizen. Right?
obviously, that’s going to set up a... That’s going to
have a charge on it. So, at some point, for myself, in working
through in my own masculine and female conditioning, I had to drop
those terms, because they have such a charge on it, because the
conditioning around it in the patriarchy is 180 degrees, flipped.
I started to use the words ‘solar’ and ‘lunar.’
It made much more sense to me. So, I was actually programmed in a
very solar way. I was sort of... I was an only child and my father’s
only son. And he gave me a very masculine [holds both hands up
indicating enclosed-in-quotations gesture] or solar type of
orientation to the world.
LR: And so, as a woman, I had to be willing to drop back
and reclaim my lunar
side, which most people would think of as... Let’s just define
– ‘solar’ is the outgoing principle, the yang
principle. So the active, the passionate, the creative.
BR: Mmh. Mmh.
LR: Right? And the lunar would be the yin quality. So the
nurturing, the more quiet, the more humble. Yes?
LR: So, what I find in speaking with men is that, if you
say to a man,
‘You need to reclaim your feminine
side,’ that immediately sets up a trigger. Because, why would I
want to be weaker? Why would I want to reclaim my second-class
citizenship? No way! [chuckles]
BR: Mm-hm. Mmh.
LR: But if you say to a man, ‘Cultivate your lunar
aspect...’ Ah! Then that’s almost acceptable and do-able.
LR: Yeah. Maybe we don’t know how to do it yet, but it
really have that charge on it. I need to learn to be more receptive.
I could stand to learn to be more nurturing. Right?
LR: I could be supportive of the female solar. Oh. So, how
feel? Now that feels more in balance. Yes?
BR: Mm-hm. Mmh.
BR: Yes. As we move through this transition, do you see it
as a pendulum
swing back towards a kind of... I guess, a kind of matriarchy? Or do
you really see the pendulum just returning to the middle and
BR: Because then we got a balance.
BR: And then you got a whole new world.
LR: Mm-hm. Yes, to the center. It’s egalitarian. Although
to say I think women are better
in most cases, to lead. And here, we have to be careful, because if
we view that in terms of duality, then that has a charge on it,
doesn’t it? If we assume that a leader is better than someone
who is implementing something suggested by the leader or being
facilitated by the leader. Really, to lead is to serve.
BR: Of course.
LR: Yes. I mean, to rule is to serve. That used to be the
royalty. And we’ve come just the opposite, again, a 180
degrees, to a feudal system. The rule is to be
BR: Mmh. Yes.
LR: Yeah. So. Really, to lead is to create a situation
holding an energetic configuration…
LR: …in which everyone feels like they are equal and they
something to offer.
BR: And they feel empowered.
LR: And they feel empowered. Of course. And so, the true
someone who you wouldn’t even think of as a leader. You
wouldn’t even acknowledge necessarily as a leader.
LR: It can be done in a very sneaky sort of way, so that
empowering the whole. But women, I think, are intrinsically, as I
said, more capable of wielding power in a balanced way.
I have this diagram. It is on my website.
is about the masculine
energies. The way the masculine energies, throughout the patriarchy,
have out-played. So the book on a very subtle level is about the
diamond body configuration in Tibetan Buddhism. Are you familiar with
BR: No I’m not.
LR: But the diagram is really a sort of star map. [video
And a star map has to be flattened down into three dimensions.
LR: Right? So, you really have to stand back from this
star map and
allow it to rise up. And when the triangles in the center of that
diagram rise up, there are two pyramids with their bases together.
And two pyramids with their base together creates the diamond body of
primordial light. It’s the last energetic body of light that
the spiritual aspirant has, before you actually break through into
the void. Yes?
BR: Mmh. Mmh.
LR: So, if you take those energies, that diamond body
energy, and you
pull it apart... If you pull those pyramids apart, and you flip them
around and you invert them, then you’ve got a patriarchal
structure. [chuckles] And it’s all laid out very systemically
in the book. There’s an analysis of it.
really, the feminine... There are 12 feminine archetypes that are
around that structure.
LR: So the masculine is there. It’s brilliant at holding
structure, at taking ideas and implementing them, and structuring
things and holding those energies in a kind of balanced way. Yes?
the feminine is chaotic. The feminine all around the outside. It
expresses itself in these beautiful different energies, but really,
LR: And that’s why the masculine thinks of the feminine as
chaotic. But not looking more deeply into it to realize that really,
intrinsic in chaos is divine chaos.
LR: There is an order
in chaos. It may not seem apparent at the onset, when we’re
spinning. But it does release into divine order, eventually. And so,
the feminine is on the outside. It’s more fiery. It spins. The
whole thing spins. It actually spins into the 12 fully-activated
strands of DNA, with the diamond body in the center. That’s the
full-blown picture of where we’re going, on an energetic level.
LR: So, it’s like we have this Earth with her diamond body
spiral of the 12 fully-activated strands of DNA. Right? On a string.
A pearl on a string, going out into the universe. That’s the
evolution of the Earth. And then we can go down into one cell. And we
can say, ‘Ah! What’s happening there?’ Diamond
body. Twelve fully-activated strands of DNA. Yeah?
LR: Same. Same, same. [chuckles]
BR: In the world now, what I see and I’m sure what you
see, is you
see many women who are aspiring to power or are aspiring to
leadership, but the only formula that they have, is to copy men.
BR: Right? Do you see any examples, in public life, of
women who are
truly bringing what I believe you would call the ‘divine
feminine’ into their responsible role? They’re not just
being a clone of a man like Margaret Thatcher or somebody like that.
LR: Mmh. Are you saying in public
LR: So we have an example or an illustration [to deal with
BR: Yeah. In what you could call ‘high profile’ leadership
positions, that are traditionally, that had been traditionally
occupied by the patriarchy... I’m just looking for signs of,
like… This woman, she’s doing it.
BR: She’s like ahead of the pack here. It’s an example for
LR: Right. Well, we see it a lot, I think, behind closed
spiritual communities that are led by women.
LR: But that’s not public. And so, when we begin to see it
expressed in the public, we tend to see it more in bits and pieces.
So, sometimes what I refer to, is... If you look at Mother Teresa...
LR: Mother Teresa was really a magician. She was really a
she operated from the third chakra. She was extraordinarily
powerful in what she accomplished.
LR: But she played within the context of the patriarchal
LR: The Catholic Church. So she played their game, but
couldn’t stop her. They canonized her after her death, didn’t
they, as a Saint?
LR: Yeah. And it was because she really did her own thing.
And she went
out and healed the sick and was extraordinarily powerful in doing so.
Or, if you look at Princess Diana, I think one of the reasons she was
taken out, was that she really was approaching, unplugging from the
patriarchal system. She was pure heart chakra.
she would go into AIDS wards or she would go to South Africa or she
would go a place where there were land mines. And she would talk to
the people. And when you saw her talking and dealing with people, it
genuine, wasn’t it?
LR: I mean Hillary Clinton also goes into AIDS wards, but
if you hold
those two up and you look at the difference…
LR: Yes. Hillary Clinton’s not coming from her heart.
chakra is completely closed...
BR: She’s doing it because that it is right thing for a
to do. Completely right.
LR: Exactly! And the heart chakra is completely closed
down. So, we have
Princess Diana who was beginning to pull away, more and more, into
that heart chakra-based energy and pulling an entire nation with her.
I mean look at what happened...
LR: ...when she was killed! Look at the flowers! The
volume of flowers!
Look at the outpouring! And those two women died at the same time,
interestingly enough, within a week of each other. So, there were two incredible
archetypes, female archetypes that were taken down at the same time.
BR: Yes. Do you see… would you anticipate that there will
more that will rise into the public view in the next 5, 10, 15 years?
LR: Oh, absolutely.
BR: This is inevitable. Right?
LR: It’s inevitable.
LR: And it’s happening now. I think, perhaps we shouldn’t
look for them at a global level, but rather, at a local level,
because things are becoming... We’re returning to localization,
aren’t we? It’s going to become necessary to return to
community and localization. This whole system of globalization that’s
fueled on petroleum, is going away. It’s going to collapse. We
can no longer ship pineapples from across the world, here, soon.
BR: Well... [sighs] Well, yes. I mean, it’s the kind of...
we’re talking, the patriarchy, in its sort of last, cornered
stand, is sort of... may well be plotting all kinds of things to
secure the iron fist on their control of the world. And there are a
lot of people who are really quite worried that they may succeed in
that, simply because there’s a sense of desperation that the
control is slipping. And therefore, they have to grab it now, and
they may do it in an especially violent way.
BR: I have to say, on record here, that I don’t think that
work at all. I actually feel very confident that it won’t work.
But the times for the next two or three years could be really quite
turbulent, as within this patriarchy, you get last stands being made,
by particularly extreme representatives of the patriarchy, who just
will not step down. Do you see that as well, or do you think I’m
being too pessimistic about that?
LR: No. I think the patriarchy is in its death throes. And
something is dying, it flails around, doesn’t it?
LR: Yeah. But I do think that we’ve reached a point. I
reached it sometime last summer, when... or even earlier, when light
really dominated on the planet. And it’s doing more so, every
day. But consciousness has a way of working in a kind of ‘eleventh
LR: So, I wouldn’t be surprised if we run it right up to
of the cliff. [laughs] It’s okay. Let them flail away. I mean,
that would only indicate to me that humanity needs
that type of intensified experience, in order to catapult them into
this energy of the heart. Because we’re either going to play it
out in the physical world or we’re going to play it out in
terms of consciousness.
LR: Or we’re going to play it out as a combination of
LR: So it’s going to be a combination of both.
BR: Yes. Yes.
LR: And light dominates at this point and darkness is
being given its
ultimatum, no question about this. I think most of those of us who
can see, feel that.
LR: But if we need to have one last hurrah, so that
humanity really can…
I mean, that’s what is happening in the Middle East. People are
basically saying, ‘Enough is enough!’ And humanity needs
to say, ‘Enough is enough!’
BR: And that feels... That feels very real, doesn’t it?
feel real to you? I mean it’s not the kind of, CIA-orchestrated
stuff. The globalists were taken by surprise by this. These are real
people in the streets.
LR: I think yes and no. I think the people who are out on
protesting may not actually know what they are protesting against.
They may think it is my government here. It’s who’s
sitting in power in Egypt, really. But it’s beyond that, isn’t
it, as we know. Because you’ve been in the business of pulling
the curtain aside for a long time.
BR: Yes. Yes.
LR: But it really doesn’t matter. When you bring a person
knees... When they’re no longer able to work and feel self
worth and put food on the table for themselves and their children,
people become desperate. And that’s a happy thing! That’s
a point we need to reach.
LR: Do we need to reach it in the physical? Hopefully not.
LR: But we need to reach it here [points to heart chakra],
finally stand up and say, ‘That’s it! I’ve had
enough. I stand up from the monopoly game of the patriarchy.’
LR: Yeah? And that’s what I mean, by becoming more local.
LR: Then people are going to realize, ‘I have to start
my local community. I have to start growing my food. I have to really
start working. Get out in front of my television and start working
with some other people here, to make this happen on a smaller scale.’
Because, really, the microcosm is
the macrocosm. Yeah?
LR: We’ve been saying – what is it? – ‘Think,
act... Think globally. Act locally.’
LR: Yes. And we can also think locally, act globally. It’s
BR: And for you, personally, what happens next? How do you
You must be receiving invitations to talk and give courses and people
asking you questions and people wanting you to travel and say more
and explain things. This is really kind of started like a huge wave
of a new phase of your own life. Yes?
LR: Mmh. Yes, I suppose so. It does go in waves. And I
have to be
willing to let those waves come through. And so often, what that
means for us in our physical life, is completely dropping not only
the physical construct through which we operate our business format,
but also our out-picturing of how it should look. Right?
LR: And so, I think it is one of those times for me, when
entirely new is coming through.
really think that this year is the year of no nonsense. It’s
the year to be truthful. We’ve been nice and we’ve talked
around things and we’ve been polite and skirted the issues for
a long time. I don’t think we can afford to do that anymore.
So, I can feel in myself, really, this kind of new energy coming,
which is just standing up and saying, ‘Okay. This is the way it
is. I don’t care if you don’t like it. I don’t care
if you want to react.’
good if you react. [laughs] You need to react. Right? Because
reaction is the first part of then – [takes a deep breath] Oh!
– taking responsibility. Yes? So fine, have your reaction. But
I think all of us are coming into a place where truth is very
BR: Well, yes. Because we haven’t got an enormous amount
BR: ...to get this right...
BR: And this is the other thing. It certainly seems clear
to me and a
lot of the people I’ve been talking with, that we’re up
against a bit of a ticking clock here.
LR: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
BR: Yeah. What is your perception of the ticking clock?
really at stake here? Is it possible that we could get this wrong? Is
there an uncertain outcome there, even if it looks...? No, you feel
LR: I feel totally
LR: It’s already done.
LR: It’s already done. The only thing that’s unclear... If
we come back to that foundation of energies that we’re laying,
that are going to lock down at the end of 2012. Right?
BR: Mm-hm, mm-hm.
LR: That’s done. We could lock it down now and be fine.
you’ll read people who channel the Galactic Federation and
whomever, and they’re always very much in awe of what’s
happened on the planet. ‘You’ve exceeded our wildest
expectations.’ And I think that’s true. I think we’re
we have this incredible portal, this incredible opportunity that
faces us right now, which is, we can ratchet up this ascension
process as high as we want. The sky is the limit. So, I often am fond
of saying, ‘We can go from point A to point B, or we can go to
point C or we can go to point F or we could go to point M, if we
wanted to.’ Right?
just depends upon how many people in the collective are willing to
drop the nonsense, take responsibility, recognize that the patriarchy
that’s coming unraveled is here [pointing to heart chakra?]
saying, ‘Ahah! I understand. We’re at the end of a cycle.
This has been a teaching. I see. I embody my teaching now. I step
back from this into this other dimension in consciousness. Fine. Play
your games in the patriarchy as long as you need.
if you’re standing as one pillar of light on the planet and you
with other pillars of light. Right? This is already happening. This
one heart, one mind. It is becoming more and more intensified. That
light is becoming more and more brilliant. Right? This is what we
have the ability to ratchet up. It’s just that. It’s
magical. It’s happening in terms of consciousness. Has nothing
to do with the intellect understanding it. Intellect can’t
understand it! Intellect is passé at this point. Can’t
possibly keep up!
have entered into the realm of alchemy. Right? And we can do
anything. We just have to come into a point where we can recognize
that we can do anything as the collective.
BR: That’s a wonderful, inspirational final closing...
BR: [chuckles] ...presentation to anyone who... Yes. I
it. Is there anything else that you would like to state on this
platform that we have now? This will be seen by tens of thousands of
people who will be scratching their heads and then saying to their
spouses, whichever way, ‘You know what? I think you should
really listen to this.’ What else would you like to present
LR: I just think it’s important to listen to your heart.
it seems outrageous,
it is outrageous. [laughs] In terms of the patriarchy, it’s
really outrageous. But sometimes, you just have to hold things up and feel
them, rather than try to understand them, don’t you?
LR: And so, you hold up the patriarchy and you hold up
and you say, ‘How does this resonate? Is this woman trying to
manipulate me? Is she trying to sell me something?’ Right? You
have to hold up the vibration, and you say, ‘Now, how does that
feel inside of me? Does that resonate inside of me?’ Right? And
it’s for each of us to decide.
think each of us is so powerful. Each of us has done so much work.
Each of us is capable of so much more than we give ourselves credit
for. And it, really, even though we talk in global terms, it comes
back to this [points to heart chakra]. You want to make a change in
the world? Change this [points again to heart chakra]. Very simple.
Sit down and meditate every morning. Come back to the still point.
Yeah? Right? And give up your judgments. Work through your judgments.
I mean, my body of work is really going into a whole way of doing
that, which is to embrace
everything, to embrace
the energies of the patriarchy. Right? To meet them. To acknowledge
them. To see them, honor them, embrace them, merge with them.
Anything that’s really seen and honored comes to rest. And so,
if we’re willing to turn and to do that with all of the
energies here, all of the judgments here, all of the discomforts
here. Right? Then we bring this to rest. Then we can stand more and
more as a pinnacle of light. Then we contribute more and more light
on the planet. So that’s what is in the court of each of your
BR: That’s a wonderful inspiration, as well. Absolutely.
be very, very interesting, wouldn’t it, to revisit this
conversation in a year’s time and then take a rain check and
see how things are moving. And I imagine that you would anticipate
that things are moving fast. They’re accelerating. Right?
BR: Yes, everywhere.
LR: Very much so. It’s interesting that we have our
one day after the Mayan Calendar... We were saying the 9th wave of
the Mayan Calendar began on the 9th of March, which is the final
wave, really, of everything spiraling up. We cycle through everything
very, very fast now. And so, the whole thing is, the more you’re
holding on, the more difficult this year is going to be. Right?
LR: The more you can let go and reconcile the energies
here and say,
‘Okay. I’m going to take whatever lessons you give me. I
surrender to that, to that learning.’ Then you’re riding
wrote a newsletter recently, ‘Surfing the Tsunami.’
[laughs] That’s where we’re at.
LR: We’ve got the tsunami coming in. And the trick of it
your boat is overloaded with people and baggage, you’re going
to capsize. So better to get a surfboard and just surf it. Yeah?
Because eventually, we’re going to be dolphins just playing in
the wave. Completely merged into formlessness. We are
the ascension. Yes?
BR: That’s a beautiful
BR: Thank you so much. I can’t possibly top that. Bless
your work. [reaches out and holds her right hand with his right hand]
LR: Awww. Thank you.
BR: For men and women all over the world.
LR: Thank you. Thank you.
BR: Thank you. Hmmh.
LR: Hmmh. [lets go of Bill’s hand] Oh! [makes a waving
gesture of embarassment with her left hand] You make me cry. [laughs]
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