Futuretalk with Rich Dolan
Click here for the video presentation
February 26, 2011
Dolan (Rich): I
think, I’ve often felt that I’m a less interesting person
to interview than a lot of the people that you’ve had. I never
pretend to have a lot of dramatic inside information that Camelot has
really become famous for putting out. So, I’m just a lot more
pedestrian in my way.
Ryan (Bill): You...
Cassidy (Kerry): [laughs]
is such a lot of nonsense. [laughs]
like the... [laughs] Well, we could get that on camera then, right?
is nonsense. Are the cameras rolling? [to Kerry] I think that you
should introduce Rich.
Because you’ve got the deep history here.
Deep, very deep. No, yes. I have the deep info on Rich.
it were. Okay, this is Kerry Cassidy.
this is Bill Ryan.
Project Camelot and we’re here with Rich Dolan. And, we’re
about to do a Futuretalk with Rich Dolan, which will be very
interesting. And just to refresh the audience’s mind on what a
Camelot Futuretalk is all about, it’s basically sort of a
roundtable discussion between the three of us. It’s not so much
to go into your material, because, although you’re the author
and the National Security State
and they’re volume I and volume II, and they’re huge
thick books and you’re an incredible historian.
recommended. I want to plug these books on your behalf.
really want to... I really want to plug this stuff. They’re
all means, guys. [laughs]
a wonderful historical document and possibly, in future time, it will
be considered one of the most important historical documents of this
I would say it’s the quintessential history of UFOs, as we know
them, at this... up to, up to... well, up to the year you ended on,
and I’m sure you’re off to the next one. Right?
currently working on that third volume, which will take the story to
the present day, that’s right.
you going to be able to catch up with the present day, or is the
present day accelerating away from you?
Well, who knows. I think that I’ll have the third volume done
in about two years, coincidentally, with the... toward the latter
part of the year 2012. Won’t that be interesting? Possibly I’ll
have it finished on December 21, 2012, for all I know.
Well, I have to say that we’re both... we’re all
three extremely verbal, so this is going to be a real challenge to
speak one after the other, rather than on top of each other, but
we’re going to try.
do our best.
So... And it’s fun to be with somebody who’s really as verbal as
we are. [laughs] So, at any rate, I would like for you to give a
little bit of your background for the people that will watch this
[who] won’t know anything about you, because the whole Rhodes
Scholar Finalist-type thing, whatever, however you say that and...
sure. I’ve been writing and researching UFOs for a little over
fifteen years now, since the mid-’90s. Prior to that I was Mr.
Academic Ph.D.-wannabe. I was working on a Ph.D. in Cold War Studies
at the University of Rochester in New York State. At that time, I was
focusing on the presidency of Harry Truman, birth of the National
Security apparatus that I’ve come to write about in my later
books. In particular, I was doing a doctoral dissertation on Truman,
and this particular document called NSC68. In National Security,
among those historians, it’s actually a very well known Cold
War-type of document. That was my thing.
to that, incidentally, I was a finalist for the Rhodes Scholarship.
That was when I was an undergraduate student at Alfred University. My
professors encouraged me to apply for the Rhodes, and I made the
final cut, so not too bad. That was an interesting experience.
Incidentally, I did an interview down in New York City. The main
woman running that interview was a... continually talked about how
she was a close friend of Henry Kissinger.
never forget this. This was back in 1984.
big time. Let me tell you, even then, I really did... had a total
aversion to anything connected to Kissinger, and it really turned me
off. And I’d never said this to any other interviewer, but I
really think that, in a sense, I torpedoed my own interview. I didn’t
come across well in that interview. I think I had an attitude to
a lot of it was because of the environment that I found myself
within. Suddenly, not knowing everything connected with the Rhodes,
the scholarship, that I’d learned later, just as a tool of the
elite, let’s say. Back then, it was just something that I
thought I wanted, but being in that environment, I was really turned
off, and I didn’t give a very good interview, in my own
opinion. I didn’t get it.
a bullet, maybe!
and bought you over to us and this whole, sort of, arena that we’re
in and probably made you a very, very unique individual out there in
a person with your credentials and your sort of methodical way of
going about things...
the same time, you’re a fabulous writer. You could have been a
journalist by trade.
you’re also a very interesting critical thinker, I have to
when you take that, an ability with story, and then, on top of it,
you’re a fabulous speaker, and I’ve sort of chided you
about that, and tried to get you to be even more fiery than you are...
you have it in you. And...
everybody likes him. Everybody respects him.
very good looking. He wears a suit.
I think this makes him highly suspicious.
much too good to be true. He’s got to be a clone.
right, right, okay. Well, no, I have to say. And you’re
also, you have an interesting background even beyond that,
because you... I don’t know if you want to go into any of that,
so I don’t want to... we can always erase something from the
tape or not put it on...
I say something that’s not acceptable, because I know that
you have sort of an... I don’t know if you’d call it
abductions or contact experience.
I’ve not had what I would say are any conscious abduction or
contact experiences. What I’ll say, however, is that I’ve
sometimes wondered if that’s the case and I don’t have
any proof one way or the other. The thing that I can tell you, is
that I do private-types of investigations that I never write about. I
can’t write about. Maybe the day will come when I really feel
that I’m able to without damaging the individuals who are
involved in these. But suffice to say, that some of the things that
I’ve looked in to are really high strangeness, dealing with
non-humans and a deep black human cabal as well, to wit, a lot of
people have had abductions that I’m convinced are military and
nonmilitary as well. There’s a lot going on that I’ve
been looking into, and I’m trying to make sense out of it as
much as anybody else [as well].
you’ve also got a background – I’m going to say
this – in the occult, in the philosophy of the Illuminati. Like
myself, you’ve studied this background, to some degree.
I’ve always been interested in consciousness, always. I’ve
always been interested in the possibility of other dimensions of
reality, other levels of consciousness. It’s not something I
would ever consider myself expert at in any way. But it’s
something... yeah, I’m interested in that, without a doubt.
So we’ve got a very open minded explorer here.
it’s probably a part of the dataset that’s necessary in
order to make sense of some of the information that comes your way,
would you say?
sure. Look, in my journey in this field, all right, I started out
really in the mid-’90s, and I was coming fresh out of a very
rigid academic environment. And I can tell you, [if] you’re in
that world for ten years or more, which I was, you learn to think in
a certain way. Now, there’s a lot of advantages to that, in
terms of writing history. It’s very, very helpful to maintain a
lot of intellectual discipline over your subject matter, so that you
can present in a way that’s reliable and that can appeal to a
lot of different people. On the other hand, that type of training
doesn’t really make it easy to get into some of the more
difficult-to-quantify elements of what we deal with in terms of UFOs
and ETs and dimensions. All right?
what I’ve noticed in my own life over the last fifteen years of
doing this, is we all are on our own journey. Now publicly, I always
try to position my writing and myself in such a way that I can reach
out and talk to mainstream people. If I were interviewed by someone
on NBC, I feel like I could do it, and I could speak that language.
after all, look, everyone doing this field, we’re part of a
spectrum and we all have our own audience that we have to deal
with, and everyone’s got something to contribute in that
regard. And so, if I’m able to speak in some way positively to
a mainstream or someone who is outside of our community, well, I
think that’s a good thing. However, the longer you stay in this
field, all right, the more obvious it’s that this is a
messed-up strange field.
would be like, if I were to just stick to little nuts and bolts,
citing reports, it would be like going to this beautiful beach with
this huge ocean, and saying, ‘Yeah, I’m going to go feel
the water for a while.’ And I go out and get my toes wet.
then I walk back and say, ‘Okay, I’m done.’
mean, without just going for a swim. At a certain point, you’ve
got to swim in the water, and so I feel that I’ve done that.
So, which is to say, yes, I’ve encountered a lot of things that
are very, very bizarre, that have challenged my own conception of
what is real. I’ll give you one example, and it’s
something that’s second nature to probably you and to many
people listening; it’s simply the mental connection between
people and these other entities, these other things.
many times is it that we come across a case where someone will say,
‘I had this urge at two o’clock in the morning to sit up
in my bed and look out my window, and I did, and there was this
orange glowing ball out there.’
what does that tell us? Well, it tells me that there’s a
telepathic connection between us and them, whatever ‘them’
happens to be. And this is a very important part of it. In other
words, our consciousness. Our minds are a very important part of what
is going on here with this phenomenon.
be the most important part.
might be, yeah, yeah. Our minds, maybe our souls. There’s a lot
of strange stuff going on here, and I happen to believe in this
enigma called the ‘soul.’ I didn’t always, but I
do. And I think that it exists. When this body of mine dies, when
your body goes and decomposes, there’s going to be a part of
you that remains, that nonlocal part, that the ancients call it the
‘soul.’ I think it exists, and I do believe – this
is only my opinion, I don’t know this for sure – that
these other beings that are here interacting with us on this plane of
existence, they know about that, and it’s of interest to them.
would say... I would say there’s overwhelming circumstantial
evidence to suggest that that’s the accepted reality out there,
and we’re just kind of waking up to this possibility and...
feel that – this is the question, this statement is a question
– that you feel that you’ve got to be kind of cautious
about those suppositions, because you’ve kind of got, kind of,
always one potential foot in the NBC interview camp...
it’s like, you’ve got to be careful about what people
hearing you say...
you’ve got a reputation to kind of defend and [block].
honestly, I’ve made so many statements at this point...
if they really wanted to trash me on NBC, they could do it. They’ll
use this interview, among many others that I’ve given.
with that in mind, I’ll just... if I get that opportunity
again, I’ll just have to deal with it the best way I can.
good for you. Yeah. I mean, for us, I guess, if I’d dare speak
on your behalf, this is a self-evident given.
met so many people, myself included, who have vivid memories of past
life recall. These aren’t inventions.
is for real.
it’s like it’s an axiom. It’s not a hypothesis.
This is a....
there’s been some very good work done on this, even in the much
more quant.... There’s been a lot of quantified data that’s
available on this, going back many, many decades.
yeah, I’m absolutely persuaded of this, as well.
you ever meet John Mack?
on one occasion I did, yes. It was in 2002 at a function for, as a
kickoff for Steven Spielberg’s [TV] mini-series Taken (2002),
and that was
in New York City for the SciFi Channel. But they only... I would have
loved to have talked with John Mack more, because I’ve always
had a high regard for him, but it was such a crowded function. I was
a brand new guy on the scene. I’m not sure if he knew much
about me at all. Someone shoved me in front of John Mack.
all of these other people around. And I chatted with him briefly, and
we were very polite with each other. But I don’t think I made
much of an impression one way or the other on John Mack. I would have
liked to have had a chance to have talked with him. And,
unfortunately, that never happened.
it just might interest you to know that the book he was working on
before he died, had to do with consciousness.
that it all comes back to consciousness, ultimately, and I find that
with researchers in this field, that the... you go out, you do all
your... you kind of drill down in different areas...
interest you. Maybe even nuts and bolts even, but ultimately, it
comes back to consciousness and to what the heart and the mind, and
the spiritual aspect of what we’re really interacting with.
I can just jump on top of what you just said here, I totally agree. I
find that in my own life, every year or two, I’m reinventing my
own paradigm of what is reality and I’m expanding my own
consciousness. So you go into this field thinking reality is one
thing, and then suddenly things don’t fit and you go [makes
swishing tearing noise and gestures his hands in a tearing gesture]
and there goes that layer of reality, and that might work for a
little while. And then a year or two goes by, and you think, ‘No,
this isn’t right.’ [makes swishing tearing noise] And we
go deeper and deeper. I’m not done!
pushing 50 now and I’m still doing this. And I think that’s
the best thing, the number one best thing about having gotten into a
field like this, is that it has challenged my understanding of what
reality is. Whereas, honestly, I think most people, they hit the age
of, say 30, and they’re done.
spend the rest of their lives...
in the blanks of what they think they know.
me give you my own perspective on this, because, just over dinner I
was talking to some people about collecting the jigsaw puzzle bits.
Okay. It’s another metaphor.
you’re trying to make it fit into the picture that you think is
on the box. You haven’t actually seen the picture...
you’ve got an idea of what you think it probably looks like.
And they don’t fit. You try and force it to fit, and if you’re
honest, they won’t really fit. And then the picture is going to
get bigger and bigger and bigger.
this picture is pretty darned big and you can’t throw out any
of the pieces. And what kind of goes with that, is something to do
with intellectual honesty of research, which is that you have to go
where the data leads you.
I understand, I really understand, as this kind of student of the
human condition, like you’re, that some people don’t want
to do that. It’s too uncomfortable; it’s too
inconvenient; it’s too embarrassing, and sometimes it’s
throat and sighs]
we found ourselves following this data trail to places... It’s
like, ‘I don’t even like what I’m looking at here!’
don’t want it to be true.
don’t like this nasty icky stuff.
yeah. [clears throat]
my God, maybe it’s real. We can’t discount it. And this
is the kind of thing which you’re touching on and what you were
saying just then, isn’t it?
It’s... I find myself in a position of almost walking a tight
rope, in the sense that, I’m trying to gather together evidence
in a way to present it to a world in a way that’s
understandable and comprehensible.
so, I’m always in a situation of what do I include and what do
I leave out. I want to include everything that I think is valid.
Certain things that I’m presented with, I don’t always
think are always valid, but then later turn out to be maybe valid
partially, and it’s hard always to know, at the time, what’s...
what to work with and what to not and... It’s a messy business.
let me that your presentation yesterday, I guess it was, was
I think that this talk that we’re having here can also touch on
some of those subjects.
I’d love to kind of go down some of those roads with you...
you’re dealing with Camelot and we are on the... in many ways,
from many peoples’ point of view, the far reaches of the
fringe, although we have a very large audience, surprisingly...
though we do go after the fringe.
we allow in, and especially me – even between the two of us, I
think on some... in some ways – like, my window, my... whatever
you want to call it, is op... it’s just really very, very open
to all kinds of things. So, [if] somebody approaches me with a story,
no matter how outlandish it is, I’m going to consider it. I’m
going to listen.
that doesn’t mean we’re going publish it. But that’s
where our discretion does come in. And I’m sure you have
the same issue, where a story comes to you, a witness...
maybe more than one, talking about a phenomenon, like the Reptilians,
then you can either throw it out and just close your mind and say no,
or in our world, what we agreed to do was to get the truth out,
whatever the truth is.
we have to investigate it; we have to entertain it; we have
to allow for it in a very wide way. That means that... we’re
talking about, as you said, other dimensions. We’re talking
about time travel. We’re talking about stargates, the fact that
we might have gone into Iraq because of the stargates. Okay? Because
of the stargate there.
it wasn’t the oil; it was the stargate. That’s a very
real, at least for me, that’s a really... very real hypothesis.
it’s been substantiated by number of sources for me and for us.
And there’s more. I mean, there’s a lot more. And so, I’m
wondering because, as you go into the next volumes, you’re
going to have to, in my view, this whole... It’s kind of like
it starts out like this, rather narrow [gesturing with hands to form
the shape of inverted pyramid], and even for you, as a historian, it
actually widens, because human consciousness is becoming like that.
In other words, the paradigm even for the sort of masses out has
become wider as we’ve left the ‘50s, if you will. At
least in terms... If you put things from that perspective.
I understand where you’re coming from. Well, the way I would
deal with any of these topics of the last 20 years, which is going to
be the content of the final volume of the UFOs
and the National Security State,
my methodology is not going to change in the sense that I’ll
work off of as reliable a body of evidence as I can, but that doesn’t
mean that I’ll avoid certain topics just because they’re
uncomfortable for me to deal with.
so, I’m very interested in asking and dealing with some of
these very controversial ideas, and to look at them fairly. And just
because there’s not hard evidence to support it, doesn’t
mean that I don’t think it may be true. In my last volume of
history, I let a lot of stuff hang out. And I don’t feel the
need. It’s not my job, as a historian, to take my gavel and
pound the desk and say that’s true and that’s BS. I don’t
have to do that every time. Sometimes I feel that I’m able to
make a judgment one way or the other, and I may put that out,
hopefully with a light touch. But a lot of times, I just don’t
know. So the best I can do, sometimes, is simply present the best
evidence on all sides that I can and just leave it. I can’t
solve every single problem. And really, it’s beyond any one
person’s ability to solve every one of these issues. It’s
too much. It’s a mine field of 500 or a thousand or more hot
topics that just don’t easily allow for a solution necessarily.
it’s like a hall of mirrors. One think that I really loved that
you did in your presentation yesterday, was when you talked about the
fact that there’s actually created, what you called a
breakaway, almost a breakaway civilization...
our culture we’ve got a breakaway, and I would call it almost a
I think that’s one way to look at it. [clears throat]
in many ways. And we were talking to Bob Dean about this yesterday,
and he’s actually like a leader in sort of our arena as a
spokesperson in many ways, having come from... really, having a
secret, above-top-secret clearance, and then moving into our sector
of things. And so, he’s had real hands-on...
in that sort of breakaway civilization, if you will. But he’s
come into what is the masses, and we were talking about the fact
there’s actually a division now, between the two lives and
think you illustrated this wonderfully in your presentation.
thanks. Well yeah, the basic idea is something that I’ve been
working for the last couple of years. I introduced it in Volume II of
my history and expanded on it in A.D. (Richard Dolan's book, After
And the idea is really not a complicated one. [clears throat] It’s
based on the idea that if you go back 60 plus years, we’ve
recovered a piece of exotic technology from Roswell or some other
crash retrieval, let’s just say. You have teams of genius-level
scientists looking at this with a lot of money, lots of layers of
secrecy, and a lot of time. And so, at a certain point, I think we
can assume that they’re going to have one or more ‘eureka
moments,’ where they understand this technology in ways that
are going to make a difference. That might mean they can improve
integrated circuits or develop fiber optics, but it also might allow
them to have breakthroughs that are even more exotic and better than
that. Let’s say anti-gravity or field propulsion technology.
if they make that kind of breakthrough, that might be something
conceivably and probably that their superiors would say, ‘You’re
not going to be sharing this with the rest of the world.’
That’s a little bit too important.
like anti-grav, for example, would take down the petroleum industry.
Poof! There it goes. Because whatever these objects are using to go
from point A to point B, it’s not petroleum. So, that by itself
is a world changer, and it would be withheld of necessity, in the
opinions of those people managing this secret. They’re not
really out looking for the betterment of humanity as a whole. That’s
a little bit too grand for their scheme. What they want to do is
maintain their position, vis-à-vis other players. So, what would
happen then? Let’s say you make a breakthrough in the 1960s on
field propulsion, and you start to develop your own fleet of flying
saucers. Well, the way science works, of course, is that it doesn’t
just go at a linear thing [i.e. rate], it’s exponential. It
builds on itself. [clears throat] I’m going to use a little bit
of water here. I’m so sorry. [drinks some water]
that’s fine. We can cut... put a cut right there.
builds on itself. And so that it’s really not inconceivable, is
it, to imagine one breakthrough leading to a new understanding of
some fundamental scientific reality, which may lead to another
breakthrough and on and on. So that this clandestine group suddenly
starts leap-frogging, jumping, and now the next thing you know, is
that they’re way ahead of the rest of us. Is that possible?
Absolutely, it is.
give you one case in point. I had a conversation years ago with a
former NSA scientist, who told me, point blank, that NSA computing
capabilities in the mid-1960s had them running at a clock speed of
about 650 mega Hertz. Now today that’s chump-change. That’s
nothing. Everyone’s got laptops faster than that, but the key
point is that the personal computing world didn’t reach that
clock speed until around the year 2000. So that the NSA was 35 years
ahead of the rest of the world. That’s a lot. So what would be
you ask, ‘Where are they now?’
in the case of a group that might even have something ahead of the
NSA in terms of ET technology or capabilities, where would they be,
in terms of AI, in terms of nanotech, in terms of biotech, in terms
of the ability to go off-world, in terms of the ability to deal with
dimensions. I think that this is all very significant.
it means, is that they are, in a sense, a different civilization than
we are. I mean what is a civilization? Well, it has to do with
the level of technology, your cosmology, your understanding of your
place in the universe, and all of those would be different with these
guys. And so, I call them a ‘breakaway civilization.’
They’ve broken away from our own. That doesn’t mean, by
the way, that they never interact with us. I mean, they’ve got
families; they’ve got reunions, they do their thing, but they
also live in this other world.
my theory is simply that the farther ahead they get, very probably,
the harder it’s going to be for them, ever, to try to bring the
rest of us up to speed. I can see this being the case, even if you’ve
got sympathetic insiders, and I believe there are. They might be
asking themselves, ‘How the hell do you bring in 7 billion
other people now, who live in this little cartoon version of reality,
compared with what we’ve got? How do we bring them up to speed,
even if we wanted to?’ That may not be easy to do.
and do we want to, that’s one of the bigger questions.
you look at the Georgia Guidestones, and you read the Iron Mountain
Report, it’s highly possible that they’d just rather kill
a good portion of them and resume...
let us die off in some way, yeah.
light of that, now that we’ve kind of painted that picture...
want to touch on the idea that we are actually a bridge, that the
disclosure that we’re involved in...
we’re out disclosing, okay, sort of, in our way, through these
kinds of conferences, through the books we write, through the
things... the interviews we do in the case of Camelot...
so on. And we are actually, people come to us and say, ‘Oh, my
God, you’ve changed our life.’
we are able to change their paradigm out there by bringing them
along, and the people in the one-half of the civilization, the very
accelerated half, that is basically the hidden portion...
on us, in my view, as that bridge now, because they begin to realize
that the gap is so wide, that it’s almost impossible for us to
a valuable asset. We’re a valuable asset and so are you.
becoming more and more [divided].
think that’s a great point. That’s an excellent point.
so, instead of killing us off like they used to want to do, and they
did. And you can... there’s documented evidence of that...
a parameter, and actually, I feel, like at this point, they actually
don’t kill people so much, because they figure they’ve
won the game and they’re in charge to such an extent that they
no longer have to kill people to get their way; they may mind-control
them, but they don’t kill them. So, ultimately, what they’re
doing now, is using people, like us, to bridge that gap to begin to
bring disclosure of what they’ve got going on. So they have
leaks [and to us].
[clears throat] along those lines...
me jump in as well.
please, go right ahead.
Okay, sorry. I’m going to infuriate you by... I’m not
reinterpreting what you’re saying, but I’m putting in a
ahead. No that’s fine.
a metaphor that I really, really love. And it’s a reaction;
it’s a controlled reaction, like a nuclear reaction in a
to speed it up, you take out the control rods. And if it gets out of
control, you don’t want it to be like Chernobyl. Then you have
to put the control rods back in there again. And the control rods are
leaning on people to say, ‘You know what? Don’t say that
if I were you. You know, you might never see your dog again.’
in the olden days, it might have been something much worse than that.
I think things are done in a more gentle way. It’s just a
whisper in the ear, and we’ve had a few of those. It’s
like, ‘You know what? You should really
run that past me first. Read my lips.’ and all this kind of
sometimes, they want the reaction to accelerate a little bit, and
then they’ll... and then someone will have the go ahead, who
you’ve called as an insider, to say more than you thought they
were going to say.
all of this is sanctioned. They could squash us all like bugs. And
they could instantly stop anyone who’s talking to you
off-record. And they don’t do that.
yeah, excellent point. Look, I’ve many, many times wondered...
I’ve had evidence in my own life of [clears throat] having been
messed with on occasion. For several years, I was stopped at every
single airport that I went to. My name was flagged. I was allowed to
fly, but I was delayed every single time, 15, 20 minutes, I’d
have to sit around while they would clear my name. I’d have
luggage opened, sent to Dulles multiple times, opened up, rifled
through. I’ve had the vans in front of my house. I’ve had
all kinds of crazy stuff like that, but I’ve really never been
threatened. And in all of that type of heavy-handed, almost Marx
brother-type surveillance that I experienced, is gone now, as far as
I can tell.
has also happened, is that there have been a number of people that, I
have to say, are very high-level, well-placed insiders, who have come
to me. Some of these people I know and they’re very well known
and famous. Others I have no way of confirming who they are. A
few of these are... can only be described as very
deep, very deep insiders, and some of those I can’t confirm
them, but I’ve had an enormous
amount of information from some of these people, and...
it must be sanctioned, mustn’t it? Surely.
Well... I... The impression that I’ve got from some of these
contacts has been, they do this on the sly. Now that’s the
impression that they give to me, or they have given to me.
by the way, I haven’t heard from this particular group in some
months now, and I don’t really know what the deal is with them.
There were a couple of people who would write to me... lots of
information. Is it true, is it not true? Well... [sighs, pauses] hard
to say. There are times when I’ve been inclined to think, yes,
they’re telling me the truth. It’s also a possibility to
wonder if you’ve been taken for a ride and so, I’ve got
to be careful.
impression that I get, though, is that these are individuals within
the deep, black, clandestine structure who have... who support what I
do and have decided, on a limited basis, to give me a little bit of
information about the nature of their world. That being said, what
I’ll say, the scenario is, very possibly one in which... let’s
call it ‘The Majestic Group’ (TMG), the secret keepers
are, they’re [chuckles] not just 12 guys. It’s a large...
bureaucracy group that is international, operated not by USD funds at
all. It’s all international money.
time private money that goes in. They own all the goods. There’s
also factions involved, as it has come down to me. Human factions and
right? Of human and non-human groups and, who the hells knows, who’s
got a score card here to sort all these guys out. I’m not sure
that they do, the impression that I get. And also, the impression
that I get is that... I call them ‘Majestic.’ I think the
Majestic Group is actually scrambling
to try and stay on top of this, to deal with one difficulty after
another that is arising in this world, due to the intervention of
forces that they really cannot control, not all of which are
benevolent. This is the impression that I’m getting.
that there’s a kind of war going on.
you say forces... Yes.
all of... They don’t even know... It’s possible they
don’t even know that these are extraterrestrial. I think
they’re dealing in some way with dimensional forces,
dimensional groups. And again, look, this is just how it’s been
presented to me, and I don’t know for sure that this is true.
It’s just some possibility that I’m looking into, but if
that scenario is as it appears to be, it’s a wild story. And
it’s not hard to see why they would want to keep a lid on this
in terms of letting the public out... Doesn’t know about it
because it’s... It would be explosive! It would be absolutely
explosive if it’s true.
the real story, you know, because when people talk about disclosure,
I don’t ... I think it’s all very nice and fine for
people to talk about little grey aliens that go around abducting
people and then the military has made deals with them and they’ve
got some flying toss...
technology and that’s it. That’s the end of the story.
simple, right? [laughs]
Yeah. That could be...
could be disclosure. That may be all they’re prepared to say.
But actually, from what we’ve heard, the story is so much more
complex than that.
I think so too.
it does involve, from what we’ve heard, battles, in other
words, going on between various groups, some of which are human, some
of which are human and the others, some of which all look human but
they may be from off-planet and so on.
I mean, the mixture of groups is really complex. And...
there are also aspects where they may not have all the information
themselves. They may have unanswered questions. They may not
understand it. They may be freaked out. And one of the problems with
the so-called presidential press conference where he spills the
beans, is it’s pretty hard for the President or for a five-star
military general to say, ‘Well, you know what? That’s a
good question.’ and ‘Gee, we really don’t a answer
I agree. One of the points that I’ve tried to make regarding
disclosure is... First of all, look. I’m not – I am and
am not a disclosure advocate. I mean, in a way, I am and in a way,
I’m not. I know full well that disclosure is going to be a very
messy and – as I’ve been lately saying – a very
unsatisfying proposition. And it’s not going to be fun.
said that, I think, as I’ve often said, it’s a paradox.
It’s impossible, but it’s inevitable.
impossible in the sense that, the people who’ve got this
secret... I see no motivation at all, on their part, for giving it
up. Why would they? (a) You’ve had this secret in your
possession for a lifetime.
That’s difficult to explain to the world right off the bat.
you’ve got the whole tech issue involved – what do you
have? What toys do you have that the rest of us don’t have?
There’s going to be a lot of public anger.
you’ve got the economic/financial picture in which you are
replacing petroleum, because, look, after there is disclosure
statement, it’s going to take all of five minutes for someone
to put together the fact that these things don’t need
petroleum. So, what are we going to move onto next? And there goes
the petroleum industry...
for starters! So, what’s going to happen? The order of the day,
is going to have to be stalling for time. Has to be. And so, in other
words, disclosure is not the end of the game here. Disclosure is the
the opening shot in the next battle for truth.
President will... let’s say it’s the President, who’s
going to say, ‘Yes. Apparently, there are others who are here
and not all of these objects are ours.’ Well [chuckles], then
what? How do you deal with abductions? That’s going to be
really not fun to talk about. And, so the best that a President will
be able to do, in those opening days and weeks, if he’s lucky,
is to be able to say, ‘We’re working on it. We’re
going to have as open a process as possible, and we’re going to
make sure that people are safe and we’re going to make sure
that we get the answers so that you can know.’ And then just
the real issue is going to be, then, there’s going to be lots
of angry and inquisitive people and there’ll be a lot of
researchers who have been digging into this issue. And people like us
will have something to say about it and, guess what, a lot of people
will be listening.
so, the issues are going to get on the table really quickly.
sorting it all out is going to be a massive battle royale, and we’ll
also possibly be in a very unsatisfactory position of being able to
know for sure that there are other beings that are here, but not
being able to pull them and put them on a podium and subject them to
a Camelot interview.
it be great, to have one of them on here. That may not be possible.
And so, we’re not necessarily going to be in a position where
we can satisfy all of our questions. And this could go on for years.
It could go on for generations.
there’s also the idea that, if you think about it from the
point of view of ‘them,’ whoever ‘they’ are
and all the different aspects of who they are, you can imagine that
it’s kind of like stars standing behind a stage and vying for
who gets to go out on stage first, because....
you think about it, why do the Andromedans want to let the Plejarans
out on stage first? Maybe they get along and that’s okay, but I
don’t think the greys are going to be so happy about that. And
then, what about the Reptilians?
what if one of those groups wants to stay backstage and the other
group wants people to know about them, because they actually have to
consider that their... that group is a threat.
that’s where you get into this whole sort of craziness. And
then, there is also the other aspect which is, that, from what I
understand, various aspects, for example, of the military have been
aligned to various different races already. So, there you already
have a sort of battle going on behind the scenes for the group of
Nordics, let’s say.
affiliated with the Air Force. Versus the Army for..
mean, I’m guessing here, who is aligned possibly with [a]
certain group of greys, and then there’s supposedly another
group of greys who are bigger and taller and may have, let’s
see, humanity’s best interests more at heart, so to speak, than
another group of greys, and so it goes.
this kind of discussion... I mean, it’s not like it’s not
already been out there.
we do have movies about ETs and various kinds of ETs. We do have ‘V’
on the television right now.
to me, this is one of the best scenarios in terms of the possible
ways that this could actually fall out. Okay? Because this is where
you get a group that seems so congenial, that they’re so, such
good guys and wouldn’t that be the great way to keep the peace?
in ‘Childhood’s End’ by Arthur C. Clarke, which
addressed all these issues from the point of view of a guy who, from
Hoagland’s point of view, actually knew what was really going
see, yeah. Well, what you’re also sug... bringing up, which is
an important point, is how would a disclosure event affect these
other beings? And another thing that comes to mind is simply, would
there be contingency plans in place? They’re probably... They
have to be, to deal with disclosure and would that mean a quick
military-type action by one group against another? Is that a
possibility? I mean, what... the impression I’ve sometimes
gotten from various sources that I have talked to, is that there is
possibly some kind of clandestine war going on. This is something
that just recently John Alexander adamantly
denied and which I disagree.
so, if there is, then a disclosure would have a key effect on those
relationships and, yeah, things could get really ugly really fast.
The only reason it’s going to happen anyway, despite all of the
difficulties... Look, it’s not hard to see why the ‘Powers
That Be’ would say, ‘Whew! This is such a mess. Let’s
just keep things nice and tight and quiet, the way they are.’
It’s not hard to see it.
problem though, is that the greatest variable in this entire equation
isn’t the secret keepers and it’s not these other beings.
It’s us. We
are the variable. We as a society, as a species, because look at us,
man. It’s 2011. It’s not 1991 and it isn’t 1971. We
are going sshhoonk [makes exponential curve gesture with right hand],
right? And what are we going to look like in another 20 years, 40
years? Good lord, man! We’re going to have world in which AI is
going to be ubiquitous and strong.
Computing into... your personal may have an IQ of 500 or a 1000, for
all we know. And it won’t need coffee to get it’s mojo
going in the morning, and it won’t need sleep. It’ll be
able to pull any bit of data off the Web, bam! [snaps fingers] like
ourselves, may have nanochips implanted to enable us to communicate
with the Web. What are we
going to be like? And then there’s biotech in general, genetic
that scenario, in that world, all right... Here’s the thing
that’s become very obvious to me – these other beings...
see, they’ve got to know this. They know we’re about to
leap right into their world.
so, that... they’ve got to be interested in us supremely,
right now knowing this. And so, that we’re going to be in the
position, within 20 years – I think it has
to be the case – where we’re going to have this
capability of detecting just exactly who they are. I almost can’t
even begin to imagine how crazy the world of the 20 to 30 years is
going to be with the reality of a non-human presence interacting with
us, with a greater understanding of dimensionality than we do today,
with greater capabilities in our own selves and with our tools, like
computers, in understanding this. It’s going to be crazy.
Let me ask you the kind of question that I would have loved to have
asked, if you were able to take questions after your presentation.
I’m not a negative guy, and I’m not a devil’s
advocate by natural persuasion, but some people watching this would
want us to ask these questions. Okay. Is it possible that the level
of complexity that we could be crashing into could be another whole
level of deception? Like the kind of macro-scale version of the
military saying, ‘You know what? Those Roswell... it was just,
actually it was top secret crash dummies.’ that kind of thing.
There are various ways that this could happen.
well, can you be more specific? So, like what kind of scenario are
you referring to?
yeah, sure. Okay, right.
Okay. If I was a Pentagon general with a really nasty, controlling,
evil intention, I would think, ‘You know what? The best way to
break this to the world is in a crisis footing, where people are so
panicked and so freaked out, that they’re not going to ask the
smart questions. They are going to be worried about their survival.’
you end up in a whole Project Blue Beam situation...
you’ve got a War of the Worlds
you’ve got these aliens coming down and shooting people up,
whether it’s real or not, and suddenly, the reality is
disclosed, because it’s all over the television screens or
you’ve got the Independence Day
stuff with the big ships,
whether they’re real or not.
no one’s asking these questions which, in peacetime, as it
were, we have the liberty to ask, because people are thinking, ‘My
God. We’re pleased we’ve got a strong military that’s
able to save us against this stuff.’ No one’s asking the
look we live in a world of false flags. We all know about 9/11. We
know about a bunch of other things. Remember the Anthrax scare? Gee,
wasn’t that interesting?
live in a world in which we are lied to and manipulated. And so, in
terms of scaring the hell out of the public in order to create a
global Fascist state, it’s something we have to be very
vigilant about. I agree with this. But, but...
it also solves the problem. It solves the disclosure problem, you
it does and it doesn’t. I mean... In terms of Blue Beam, I just
want to point out, I did some investigation of Blue Beam, as well.
There was supposed to be a Blue Beam event, if you recall, on October
know it’s nonsense [and yeah...]
well, it was nonsense. And I said so, long before it happened.
origin of the Blue Beam theory was from a general guy called Serge
Monast and... I looked into his background and the fact was, it was
just a load of nonsense, in my opinion. He was...
the theory, as a tactical device to use, it makes strategic military
sense that some people might do this. Surely.
question is, getting the details right. So, you’re going to
have to convince the world that there’s a hostile alien threat
and they’re about to get us. So, you’re going to have to
come up with, presumably, documents. You’re going to have to
come up with ETs. See, part of the problem is going to be convincing
the scientific community about this. All right? And no matter how you
put out the disclosure, there’s going to be an issue of
persuading, say, the National Academy of Sciences, which is a very, very...
putting the ships above all the major cities around the world would
kind of close that statement...
they’re holograms that are so precise.
But you wouldn’t even... But you wouldn’t even have to...
see, they have ships to make... Wait, wait, wait.
would persuasive holograms really do the job, ultimately?
You wouldn’t leave...
believe they have the craft, okay. So, we know they have supraluminal
know they’ve got black triangles. We know that some of those
UFOs that people are seeing are military.
ours. Okay, whatever ours is.
so, look, they don’t even need to have all holograms. They can
do a combination of. And the thing is, that I agree with you in the
sense that I’ve always said this. In fact, if they do a Project
Blue Beam-type invasion scenario with the craft that they have and
some holograms and so on and so forth...
ultimately, the real guys are going to have a say in that scenario,
because they’re going to say, ‘Well, wait a minute,
dudes, we are real...’
we’re going to come down and actually have an counter...
of this is predicated... It’s all predicated on the fact that
these other beings are not going to do a thing about it.
seems to me. And that’s taking a mighty big risk. [clears
they’re so involved right now, I mean, if we... We’re in
this sector where we’re getting disclosure and we’re
getting witnesses that are having contact constantly, not only people
like us, but possibly yourself. But certainly, many, many people that
attend these conferences and many that don’t. People that write
to us every day, every
single day. I get emails.
the stories. You wouldn’t believe it. It’s amazing. I had
one woman just come up to me yesterday and say, from Puerto Rico, and
say she has a crystal child and that we saved her life because of an
interview we did, because her child was able to see, documented on
the screen with us, what he was seeing in his real life and he was
having trouble living in that sort of mainstream paradigm in which
the world we talk about doesn’t exist.
I mean, that’s what we’re dealing with. We’re
dealing with ETs that are actually... they are involved, not only
with our military, but with us. The way they’re involved with
some cases, is much more secretive in many ways, than even what we
understand from the military, because we hear they’re... Dan
Burisch says that he is working side-by-side with them. And we’ve
got Henry Deacon who said the same thing. We’ve got Bob Dean
saying they’re walking the halls of the Pentagon.
easiest... the easiest way for the ETs to influence our society,
whatever their intentions are, however many different groups are
involved, is to incarnate as us and the play the game from within.
think that’s... actually, I believe that’s what has been
that is happening as well.
any of us were non-human looking ETs and we were interested in this
society down here and we would want to influence it, well, you’d
either want to put your people, get some of those people to work for
you, or you would create your own, or you would somehow work to
infiltrate that society and manage it, so that when it gets to a
point where it might be a real pain in the neck for you to deal with,
you’re in a position where you’ve got influence. You’ve
got control over it.
got your own team on the ground.
got a whole bunch of sleepers. We’re talking...
I think that this is absolutely a real possibility.
it all out is going to be a very difficult situation. The one thing
I’ve tried to do in writing this book, by the way, is to show,
yes, there’s the possibility of these very, very bad scenarios
taking place. I try not to avoid any of that. But I wanted to... See,
I wanted to show that it is possible to see that there is a better
way here, that there is a better possibility for our species and our
in other words, let’s look at the political upshot of a
disclosure process. It could be a Fascist police state. Right now,
there’s a battle in the world about that going on. We all know
it. And that battle is going to amplify, I think, after disclosure,
but it doesn’t have to go all one way. And we’re seeing
this now in the actions of the Arab people in the Middle East. We can
see that change happens fast [snaps fingers].
that there is such a thing, still, as ‘people power’ in
can be disabled. Right now, in Egypt, the army’s just batting
down the protesters, so it’s not clear where all this is going
that revolution’s not done.
in a post-disclosure world, what are going to be the issues? Let’s
say you’re the President. Is it possible that that person,
despite the fact that he was put into power by the Bilderberg elite
groups, Illuminati. Okay? ‘Pshoo.’ Put right into the
White House. Is it possible that that individual might have a moment
where he sits down, or she sits down, and decides we have a
possibility here for something really positive in which he or she may
want to take on (a) the black-budget, clandestine breakaway group
that has managed this. There will certainly be political pressure to
do so, I think. It seems to me that people are very instantly going
to be wanting to know about how you’ve kept this secret in
structure of secrecy, unless the Fascist state comes down ‘boom,’
like one heavy curtain, there’s going to be a lot of discussion
about this structure of secrecy and there’s going to be a lot
of angry people.
a president or any leader is going to have to deal with that. And
unless he starts shooting everyone all at once, there’s going
to have to be political... a way to deal with this politically, and
so there will be, very possibly, some serious, deep investigations
that are held publicly and a President will have a chance, I think,
to take a very courageous decision and to gain control over, in the
Untied States, of the US system of government, away from these
black-budget, clandestine groups and to find out where they are,
where the money is, what the programs are, at the same time, of
fighting another battle. And this other battle will be to coordinate
internationally, globally – I would like to see – an open
process of cooperation to enable the nations of the world to
transition (a) peacefully to a new form of energy, a post-petroleum
world and then (b) to find a way to collaborate to meet the challenge
posed by these other beings, whether positive or negative in
intention. I realize [chuckles] that’s asking a lot.
realize that that’s so idealistic that maybe it borders on
Utopian. Maybe that’s what it is.
it’s assuming that the President makes the calls.
is indeed assuming that. The President... there’s no reason to
say that a President is going to do that.
President could just as easily follow his corporate international
masters and say, ‘This is not how it’s going to go down.’
But – the last thing I want to say though – is that the
voice of the people on planet Earth may not be so easily amenable.
we’re seeing this now in parts of the world today and it can
very well be the case, post-disclosure.
I think you also have to keep in mind, though, that disclosure, this
thing we call ‘disclosure,’ which is happening, as Bob
Dean says, we are actually... have been in a roll-out for the last 20
years, if you will, of disclosure in various ways – movies,
we are doing. Okay? And you can argue for that. And it’s
have a slightly different take on that, but go on.
yes. But it is a roll-out of a sort. And so, at that point, you can
really say that you’re also... we’re not just a closed
system, right now, Earth, with a few different visitors, so to speak,
putting, dipping their hands into the pot here. We are actually
entering, as a solar system, a galactic community, but also, we have,
if you listen to Paul LaViolette, and you look at what’s
happening in terms of the dynamics with the changes on the Sun and
the fact that there’s a superwave of energy coming towards us,
that one of our witnesses, Jake Simpson, said that, using
supraluminal travel, they sent craft out beyond our solar system and
actually were able to see this wave coming toward us. Okay?
this was several years ago. So, at this point, you could assume that
it’s almost here. The changes on all our planets in our solar
system are well-documented at this point by Hoagland and Wilcock and
other people, scientifically. So, when you’re looking at those
let me just say, I’m not... It’s all in the data, all
if the data is scientifically measurable and confirmed, then that’s
So, what you have is a possibility of a new body coming into the
solar system at the same time as all of these other things. So, here
on Earth, you’ve got these tumultuous, almost on the verge of
revolution, what I call a ‘revolution in consciousness’
happening among the masses, simultaneous with all these facilitating
things, going on to some degree, working for and against Earth
changes, things that are being done on purpose, whether war is being
conducted by our military, using HAARP and so on. There’s lots
of evidence of that.
so, that scenario is not... it’s not simple in terms of just,
well, you have a President sitting here looking at the playing field
and saying ‘Well, wait. Stop there.’ and ‘Let’s
talk about this.’ Actually, it might not be that easily
delineated. And what we may be looking at, also, because, in terms of
the power structure, it’s not the President, obviously, and
it’s groups like, possibly, Scion, which is MJ12’s new
name for themselves, supposedly, and then City of London, which is
maybe even above that, and aspects of that. And then there’s
the Anunnaki card, if you want to pull that forward, which says that
there are Anunnaki that are operational here on the planet at this
time and that they are still in control and that their ...
hear, I hear your point.
reign may be... it may be their reign that’s being challenged
and not President Obama or...
I’ll take the point, obviously, that there are entities beyond
that, but the off...
[cameraman]: ...switch these tapes...
Well, I take your point with everything that you’ve just said
about powers behind the throne, so to speak, but I will still
maintain that within the office of the US presidency, there are still
legal powers that this individual has, that would enable him to make
a difference. All right?
speaking, in our world, the office of the President has substantial
power. The fact is, we all know that it’s been mitigated by all
other kinds of factors around it. That doesn’t mean that such
power can’t be reclaimed. And this is the thing that I would
like to see in a after-disclosure world. I’m not saying it’s
going to happen.
last person who tried to do that might have been Kennedy.
would agree completely.
think we can all agree that John F. Kennedy was...
taken out for that reason, that he was a real problem to those
people. But it doesn’t that a future leader won’t have a
moment of courage...
a moment of insight and make a decision to say, ‘Let’s do
this the right way. Let’s do this for the betterment of the
human species.’ Why should we ever rule that out, especially if
there’s a large global movement among the people to do that.
think what we’re not talking about here is the White Hats,
because I think what would facilitate such a move on the part of a
President or even a small group within our military-industrial
complex, if you will.
are white hats.
I am in touch with some of these people at this time.
they are very concerned to keep the United States operational, which
is something that, from what the information we have, is that the...
sort of the Rothschild faction would love to see taken down, such
that it would be... fall under the purview of their overlook and
basically become part of the New World Order...
as a one-world government, right? So you can’t have the United
States with all its powers sort of sitting out here like a... on its
own, running things, or attempting to still run things around the
world, when in fact it needs to be part of a team. Right?
I think to a large extent, the US has been brought into that. You
the White Hats do indicate that they still have some worth fighting
not done. So, I’m just saying that that’s the group that
would support what you’re saying –
I think so. It’s...
President acting in a certain way, because he’s not going to do
it by himself. He’s got to have somebody behind him.
fact is, as I see it, and I... maybe, as you guys also see it, is
that there’s two sides to this battle... there’s many
sides [chuckles] to this battle, but there are... it’s not
all... the power isn’t always all on the other side of the
we... those of us fighting for the right, the right fight here, have
some resources too, and we have to remember that being hopeless is
certainly not a good state of mind, and it’s also not accurate.
is what we say...
time we talk to Jordan Maxwell, who – bless his... bless his
socks – has had a tough time, and every now and then, he says,
‘You know what? It’s all hopeless.’ And I say, ‘No,
it’s not all hopeless. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be able to
be talking like this.’ [Look a bit.]
I mean, the human species has gone through a lot of ups and downs. A
lot of downs. We’ve had all kinds of crises throughout our
history – famine, debts, injustice, crashing down of empires,
barbarian invasions and all of this. All right? And we somehow
managed to keep going. I think that we’re not going to go
winking out after disclosure. We’re going to continue to live,
and if it even takes centuries for us to regroup, we’ll do it.
I don’t think we’re just going to go away.
going to be very different in the future. We’re probably going
to be unrecognizable to how we are now, in the future, just as we
today are unrecognizable to, say, the era of Thomas Jefferson. Could
you imagine? And I think the difference will be even be greater in
the future. So... What we are, you mentioned us as a ‘bridge,’
a bridge in this world between the elites and the general public. But
we’re also a bridge to the future...
we are right now. We’re at a point between the old humanity,
the old civilization, and something that’s coming ahead. And
one of the important things that that world of the future is going to
have, is an open knowledge that there are other intelligences working
good or for ill.
we’re going to have to deal with that in some way.
our... the subsequent generations are going to grow up with that
realization. And I guarantee you, they’re going to look at this
problem very differently, I’m sure, than how we’re
looking at it right now.
you feel that your personal role is to facilitate and optimize that
transition, that inevitable process? Is that what you’re doing?
[sighs] yeah, I’ve wondered about this. I think that’s a
nice way to put it. More simply put, I think that my role is simply
to learn and communicate, as responsibly as I can. I learn what I can
learn. I try to provide as rational a voice on this process as I’m
able to do, for better or for worse.
you’re being more than just an academic historian, aren’t
ceased being an academician any years ago.
carry that training with me, but I’m an independent scholar. I
guess it’s probably the best way to look at it.
yeah, look. I agree. I think that what I would like to be, in my
heart of hearts, is someone who can really help and make this a
better world and not a worse world, and to transition us to, as good
a place as we can be in the future.
of the team of midwives of the birth of a new world.
like the way that sounds. Yeah.
Absolutely. I think there’s a team of us, if you will.
I think there’s also the potential for the positive view, as
you’re talking about it, of the future, that involves this
revolution in consciousness that is happening around the planet...
I think that in spite of how it’s being used and how it will
continue to be used, this wave that’s hitting the Middle East
and various countries... that...
traveled there, having even been there recently and been in
communication with the locals...
can tell you that, on the ground, this is really where the hearts and
minds of people are... people is, around the world. This is not just
a CIA-motivated coup-type thing going on.
it’s as real...
sure seems like that to me.
the streets of Egypt as it is in Jordan and so on. And we travel
constantly, as you do often.
I have to say that that’s for sure.
at the same time, there will be an effort to twist some of these
things around, just as there has been with the Wikileaks, for
example, saying he’s on the payroll of this one or that one and
so on, so forth.
yeah! Yeah, yeah. Right.
the information comes out.
line – the truth is coming out, slowly but surely, and that’s
really the wave that we’re all behind, in my view. And I want
to say that, at some point – and it may be happening now –
I’m beginning to think that the... call them the ‘power
elite,’ call them... whoever they are, are beginning to turn to
us to begin to be the, sort of, not only the bridge, but also the
communicators between them and the masses. And that...
mean the ‘us’, the ‘us all’?
I mean is, is that ‘us’ in the sense of... I don’t
mean ‘us’ Camelot.
mean ‘us’ in terms... yes.
terms of the ones that have been willing to go out on a limb early
on... sort of, being at the avant garde, being at the forefront of
some of the changes and... and the willingness to entertain that.
the same time, we can actually provide a... I think that there’s
a dialogue that can start to happen, if you will.
there’s another way to look at this, because... I... speaking
totally for myself, I can tell you, no one ever encouraged me to go,
to take this path that I’ve taken. This is something I’ve
done on my own. I’ve never gotten encouragement from the
Rockefeller or Rothschild clique.
No, I know!
possible to say that they’ve suffered this existence and
they’ve allowed me to do it. Okay. But what I think is actually
happening – and this gets me back to a point. You mentioned Bob
Dean earlier, and I love and respect Bob. I think the world of him.
But it’s a very commonly held opinion that Bob shares and I’m
not sure I agree with, which is that this elite is promoting a kind
of openness to this reality through popular culture and popular
media. I’m not discounting it...
what I actually see is, this change is coming from the bottom up, and
that those people who are involved in media are increasingly seeing
that this is what people are interested in, and they’re
responding to that. That’s what I think is actually happening.
And again, let’s take a look at Wikileaks as a phenomenon.
Wikileaks is possible because of the age of the internet. In the same
way, this, these radical changes we’re seeing... almost every
single thing that we’re seeing, honestly, in my view, is
because of the existence of the internet. What we’ve
experienced in the way of our ability to communicate... it’s
exponentially greater than anything possible before 1990. And that is
what is driving this change in consciousness. Suddenly, we’re
all able to talk to each other...
the world. And that’s driving the change. And the guys at the
top, I think, have been struggling, in a way, to maintain control
over the situation. And I think they continue to try to do so. Some
of them may have decided that, for people like ourselves who are
trying to get the proper word out, they may be thinking, ‘Yeah,
it’s possible that we’ll let them do their thing,
because, ultimately, it’s necessary.’ But I... [chuckles]
I can you from my part, I’ve never gotten any active
encouragement or money which would...
I actually wasn’t suggesting that.
For anything like that. Yeah.
I understand where you’re coming from.
actually had our lives threatened. So, anything but encouragement...
That’s right. Exactly.
least from our point of view. But what I’m saying here is that,
I think... what I sense is, the tide is going to turn in that regard.
And also, what has happened with the media, for example, with
Spielberg and so on – there is evidence that these people have
been approached by people in power to steer their message, to
encourage them along certain lines where they wanted it to go. And
I’m talking major mainstream media. They’re not
In Spielberg’s case... I mean, I’ve wondered about this.
And my question would simply be, ‘What’s this man’s
message?’ If you look at the movies and projects he’s
done, he’s all over the map. He’s had E.T.
the Extra-Terrestrial (1982).
He’s had Close
Encounters of the Third Kind (1977)
– happy positive ET message. He’s had [the TV mini-series] Taken
– nasty. He’s had War
of the Worlds (2005)
– that’s even nastier.
if there’s a message that this guy’s supposed to be
putting out, what is that message? All right? Other than say that
there’s ETs here. Big deal. All right?
that may be part of it. I mean, you know that... I mean, look. They
do nothing but...
it more...? Isn’t it possible, though...?
something positive with something negative. It’s basically how
they manage the message.
it just as possible, though, Kerry...?
want to keep the confusion.
is just as possible, that Spielberg is a guy who’s genuinely
interested in this topic, and is exploring different facets of it, as
any intelligent person might do, over the course of 30 years? I’m
not saying he’s not got no relationships here. But, when you
look at Hollywood... Let’s look at something going back in
history, like the Robertson Panel of 1953. And this is a CIA panel.
And it was very, very clear, among those guys, that they were going
to work with Hollywood, among other agencies, to guide public opinion
on UFOs, but to what purpose? To debunk and discredit it.
what they were going to do. To disable this whole topic. And there is
evidence that the Robertson Panel was, in effect, through the ‘50s
and ‘60s, very possibly beyond... So, what the suggestion that
you might be saying now, is that that’s changed in order to get
a different message out, which is to acculturate the public in the
reality of ET. I guess it’s possible. But I’m not seeing
a lot of hard evidence for it.
Well, I think the hard evidence is everywhere. I mean, I think every
movie you see... And I’m a sort of a rabid sci fi fan, so I see
it everywhere. The messages are there.
but isn’t it just as likely the possibility that they’re
responding to obvious public interest in this topic?
it’s both, don’t you see? It’s both.
other words, the people have... It’s the same thing that’s
happening in Egypt with the revolution.
both from the top down and
from the bottom up.
place was like a tinderbox. People wanted freedom.
there. That’s real. It’s the same thing with the
understanding of that... these people that are writing screen plays
that are publi... making movies...
have a passion for the subject.
It’s a real passion. Okay? But you can’t discount the
fact that the Powers That Be, at this... mind control is a huge
portion of what’s going on now, with regard to the powers that
yeah. Actually, I’m being... I mean, I shouldn’t really
be arguing it this strongly, because I do agree that if you have the
annual Bilderberg meetings, obviously, one of the things they’re
going to want to do...
to ask, ‘How do we manage public opinion here and there and
there and there?’
so, they’re going to have thoughts about doing this.
want to steer it.
how good at they are at steering is another matter. And I would
Very good point.
the internet has allowed them not to steer it with the control that
they wish to have.
other words, I agree with you completely there.
think the internet has allowed them to surveil us completely.
at the same time, it’s given us incredible power, because we
are, as you say, able to talk to one another across the world...
get information everywhere.
the power behind information, and in essence, truth, when it is
contained in information, is like a spark that goes out and spreads
around the globe.
basically becomes a fire in the hearts of the people. Okay? To get
poetic about it.
love that phrase, yeah.
So, what I would say is, yes. I think the future the wide open. I
think the Powers That Be, regardless of their ET connections, even...
completely aware that they are losing their grip as we speak, and
it’s like a cauldron that’s beginning to boil over. And I
think that they’re grasping at straws to try to pull it back
in, but I don’t think they’re ever going to be able to do
that. And that’s what we’re banking on, because...
what we do.
trying to wake people up. And it’s just the act of waking up
that makes every human being able to connect with that whole world.
And you just made me able to remember what I wanted to say. So, thank
it’s the whole concept of consciousness. And incidentally, when
I spoke at Awake and Aware Conference in ‘09, I absolutely
loved the title of that. And I’ve always appreciated it... your
tagline in your emails, ‘Awaken the Dreamer.’ All right?
I also feel that most of us, to varying degrees, go through our lives
kind of a sleep-walking our way through. And our ongoing struggle is
to wake up, to become conscious of everything that’s going on
around us and inside us. When I look at the world around me –
not simply other researchers or interested parties in this topic, who
are much more awake than the typical person – but there’s
a lot of people who aren’t awake. And I ask myself, ‘What’s
going to get our whole species awake?’ Is it our mainstream
media? No. Is it our political system? Not really. Is it our
educational system? Doubt it. And so, there’s really no
structures in place, really, that are going to get us there. But
there’s a couple of things that can do it. The shock of
learning that there are other beings interacting with us is going to
spark six, seven billion people to sit and look and ask themselves a
simple question – ‘Have I been wasting my whole life?’
there’s going to be...
strongly obvious that there are other beings operating at a different
level of consciousness than we are. And people are going to realize
‘Holy crap. I’ve got to get my... I’ve got the
opportunity to rethink my whole world view, my whole life.’ And
that is an opportunity for humanity to really move to a much, a truly
higher level of consciousness, to understand what it is we are and
our place in the universe. And that can ultimately be the thing we
I think that also, this... the possibility of free energy that opens
up, the fact that people will not be...
that’s an absolutely critically
from hand... on a survival level.
will change everything. Because if you don’t have to starve...
you don’t have to work...
hours a day to support yourself, to pay your bills, etc. etc.
there’s another kind of organization of society, that can
it’s wide open.
The whole paradigm of previous human existence now becomes changed.
The reasons for just about every war that I can think of, in human
history, has to do, in some fundamental way, with control over
resources, over wealth coming from the Earth. And if that really
becomes moot, in a situation [of] free, cheap, readily-available
energy, where goes war? I mean, this... maybe this is pie in the sky,
but I think, in a lot of ways, it could be, that after a number of
decades, we might just find that the motivations that we had for
warfare in the past really aren’t there. Now, of course, in the
meantime, we’ll have the very practical issue of having global
military bodies around the world and what do you do with them, is
going to be an issue.
you just stand them down or are they to become police forces involved
in a global police state?
they’re very powerful and effective...
very powerful and effective logistical machines for any given
purpose. It doesn’t have to be offensive [and military].
Absolutely, absolutely. So, again, it’s a wide-open game and I
don’t know any more than the next guy how it’s all going
to turn out. It could be a wonderful situation for humanity and the
cosmos in general, or it could be something dark. But even if it’s
something very dark, I’m skeptical of saying that it will be
dark forever. Nothing lasts forever. Change is something that always
happens, and it seems to me that, even if it’s a thousand
years, well, then it’s a thousand years, but something may
change after that. I’m very much not inclined to think that
even the worst outcome, in the short term, is necessarily going to
a question to challenge you, then. If you let go of the data that
I can only imagine the piles and gigabytes of data that you’ve
collected in the last few years, what is your intuition tell you we
have in front of us over the next few years?
got a really nasty situation ahead of us, to be honest with you. I
think that we’ve got... [sighs] I think that humanity, right
now, is the most interesting event in this portion of the galaxy. We
are about to truly wake up. We’re truly about to jump into the
world of these other entities. They won’t be able to stop it.
And so, anyone who’s anybody is here right now looking at us
and investigating our world. And, very likely, positioning themselves
to get the best gain out of it. I’m not of the opinion that all
of these other beings, that can go across dimensions and stars, are
all necessarily spiritually-evolved.
I think some of them are, actually, and I think some don’t seem
to be. So, you’ve got a plethora of interests out there. And
so, what we’re looking at is, we’re going to get a
baptism by fire in the next lifetime. Us, and the next several
generations after us, are going to have to deal with a lot of
difficulty. We also have the possibility of some severe
infrastructure interruptions, it seems to me. I mean, I was just
reading about the airport in Tripoli right now, which is a sea of
humanity with no sanitation and no food. And they’re all just
trying to get out of the country. Imagine that on a large scale, if
we have big problems in terms of mass panic and difficulties
associated with transitioning to new forms of energy and financial
problems and collapses and wars that may break out in the short term.
It could be really bad. But if you take the long view, I think that
I’m optimistic about our civilization and our species, to the
extent that I think that we’ll continue to exist and we’ll
thrive and we’ll become something different, very different,
and I’m hoping, better than what we are, even now.
think we’re going to meet our multi-dimensional selves in the
flesh and in other forms and fashions, and I think that, ultimately,
that we’re going to be better for it. And I think that this is
the possibility that we’re embracing. It’s not just a
actually the reality starting to unfloat, unfold like a sort of
flower, if you will.
And another way to look at that – I agree with you – is
that... when you look back on your own life and I look at my life,
it’s... there’s an irony involved. No one ever wants to
fail. No one ever wants to have life kick them in the teeth. But the
fact is, when you look over the difficulties of your life, you
realize that those are the things that made you what you are.
conversely, it’s all the people who’ve had everything
handed to them, that I have no use for these people.
They are, those... shallow, weak, self-centered individuals. And when
something bad comes their way, they fall apart.
really, what we... the irony is, you can’t always get you want,
but sometimes you get what you need.
we need difficulties. We really do.
not to make it into some romanticized thing, but the fact is that,
it’s only through overcoming challenges thrown our way, that we
actually become something better than what we were.
As individuals and as a civilization.
I think so.
I think this is a great place to end. And I want to thank you, Rich
Kerry. It was a pleasure.
Yeah, absolutely a pleasure for both of us.
was fun. A long time coming and it’s worth it.
here for the video presentation