Richard Hoagland

Interview transcript - Part 3

This page is a reformatted version of the original Project Camelot publication.


Dark Mission: Richard Hoagland
Part 3

Albuquerque, New Mexico, December 2007

Start of interview

Kerry: Last time we were here visiting you, we didn't get an interview at the time. But you were doing a video called Kokopelli, and you had just come from down south, near Palm Springs, at a conference.

Richard: Joshua Tree.

Kerry: Exactly. You had given a speech about your findings about what's going on.

Richard: That was a four day conference with a lot of other researchers.

Kerry: David Wilcock was there.

Richard: David was there. David’s friend was there. Sean David Morton was there. One my lunar researchers Steve Troy was there, Ken Johnston was there.

Kerry: I really wanted to be there, but was not able to be there, but we were fascinated to find out that Richard Hoagland was now investigating what is happening to the planet as we enter these uncharted waters of the future, going from now - 2008, we're right on the verge - to 2012 and beyond.

We understood that you had some evidence that you were working on, and I think that David Wilcock has actually helped you write an article on your website, called Interplanetary Day After Tomorrow, that begins to document the changes that are happening on other planets, not just on our own Earth, in terms of the heating up of the planets, and the changes.

What we wanted to talk to you about is: What did you find?

Richard: The way I came to it, and what knits these two apparently disconnected subjects together: what has NASA been doing all these years that it hasn't wanted to tell us, and what is coming in 2012, turns out to have a very critical important connection.

Remember, I started out looking at a set of Martian ruins... even if NASA said they weren't ruins, just a trick of light and shadow. As part of that work published in The Monuments of Mars, and reiterated in great detail in Chapter 2 of Dark Mission, we tripped over this physics - this physics that we're not supposed to know.

I was told the other night, by an intel source on the phone, and this is an exact quote - it's so striking and so important that I get this right, because it exemplifies what's been going on behind the scenes for all these years in terms of them telling us the truth:

I was told that they would rather give up a major American city to nuclear terrorism, than give up this physics.

This is the physics of antigravity, so-called free energy, even consciousness and life itself. It's all bound up with the fact that physics, a hundred and some years ago, when Maxwell was writing his equations and the modern foundations for electromagnetic theory were being laid in England, took a radical wrong turn.

In hindsight now, as I back-engineered this - and we talk about this in Chapter 2 - it wasn't a wrong turn done by people who were misled, who were making mistakes, or didn't know what they were doing. It was a conscious suborning of the truth. It was done by people manipulating science and scientists by controlling the journals, by creating the peer review process, by basically eliminating unwanted papers, by attacking character assassination of scientists who were not following the straight and narrow.

A conscious herding of the scientific community, away from technologies and a fundamental understanding of physics that would liberate all human kind. In other words, control.

Remember, I'm back-engineering this by looking at a set of ruins on another planet. Looking at some geometry, and through exquisitely interesting steps, that I won't bore you with now because they are in both books, realizing that we had laid out on the surface of another planet, an entire physics, a window to a whole new way of looking at the world, of looking at reality, of what really controls all the stuff up to and including our technology that we take so for granted and think works one way and in facts works on slightly and sometimes major different principles.

So with that as backdrop, as I started looking at the ruins on Mars, and then I expanded my search to look at the ruins on the Moon, and these little shards of glass, and the confirmations that in fact it is all real, all this stuff that I've been saying all these years, that NASA is hiding.

Then the question arose: if we're looking at ancient civilizations on these planets that are no longer there... what happened? I mean, if they had this almost magical godlike power, why aren't they still there? Why are we as their last surviving descendants, in the model that they are us, and we are them, why are we in such an awful condition, fighting over each other over a few drops of oil, when the universe around us could provide limitless energy, to build the staggering scale of stuff that we find right next door on the moon?

Something must have happened.

That got me into thinking: we know from terrestrial history that life does not go on, that there in fact are bad things that happen. They happen to people, they happen to cities, nations, and civilizations. Things happen, ebb and flow. Like in Shakespeare, the seven ages of man. Beginning, the middle, and the end.

So, if this stuff, no matter how amazing the guys were that did this, if this could come to an end, and it look like it came to, in many cases, a catastrophic end... if you look at the stuff on Mars, it's obvious that there was a huge planetary catastrophe that swept this away, and buried it under miles of mud and sediments, and it's been eroding.

We're seeing the traces of buildings peaking out from underneath. Even the Russians talk in some of their literature about buried cities under the sands of Mars. In their mainstream scientific literature.

So you look at all this, and I say to myself: could this happen here again?

Could everything we see around us - New York, skyscrapers, the extraordinary technology that went into Apollo, all of this stuff that we take for granted, that we are on this unending Victorian march into the future - could it in fact at some point come to an end? Could we, currently, go through some cataclysm, like these guys [on Mars] obviously went through? Because they're no longer here.

That got me looking at things like ancient records. There are some amazing things in Egypt that I can show you - that I actually have in this database - that really prove that we're not the first.

There's this eerie parallel between the face on Mars, and the faces of the iconic pharaohs in Egypt, up to and including that headdress which was called a Manes. It had stripes.

If you look at some of the early versions of the Viking imagery of the face on Mars, it’s got lateral stripes on both sides of the platform on which the face is lying. That told me that there was potentially an Egyptian connection.

Then you fast forward the film and you get into people like Vladimir Avinsky, who's a Russian researcher, who completely separately, in 1984, published in Soviet Life magazine a chronology of his investigation of Cydonia, and he wound up calling the face on Mars 'The Martian Sphinx'.

More fast forward on the film. As part of my research when Errol Torun came on board the investigation, we realized one day that there was exquisite mathematical linkage between the physical placement of the ruins on Mars and the physical placement of the ruins in Egypt. In fact, if I remember this correctly, the Cosine of one was equivalent to the Sine of another.

The odds of that happening are 7000 to 1. In other words, each special place in the Sphinx and pyramids, on two separate planets, knew the other's location, to one part in 7000. And that’s just not in the cards. As George Noory says, ‘I don’t believe in coincidence’. George is right: this cannot be coincidental.

The more you delve into Egyptian history and Egyptian hieroglyphics, architecture, all of the stuff Egyptian, which by the way is what the Masons are basing there stuff on, you find this incredible subliminal connection to Mars. When I’m looking at a departed civilization on another planet, where I have no ground truth, if I can on this planet, find linkages where I might have ground truth, that makes me pay attention.

The bottom line: there appeared to be, both in the mythos and in the architecture, math and geometry, at all levels, some profound deep connection between the monuments of Mars and the monuments of Earth, specifically in Egypt. What I call in Monuments in Mars the terrestrial connection.

You can go into the books and read all about it. It's documented with pictures and equations and all that. However, that got me looking and really paying attention to a few little blips that in Egypt, there may in fact be current records, a hint of a former high tech civilization, which in the model might have either gone to Mars, and built the stuff we were seeing.

Although now, I don’t think that’s the case. There's too much stuff there. Or in fact have been, not back-engineered, but the civilization on Mars, that we see in ruins, could have sent refugees of colonists or whatever to Earth, and then you would have an independent development where they would develop high civilization and you might see on Earth the record of that ancestry reflected in the monuments.

One case in particular was of what we see on screen. This is Abydos, which by the way is a very critical planet in the whole Stargate mythology around the very popular television show. That raises the question: what do those folks know, and when did they known it?

This is Abydos. What’s striking is that this is the temple of Seti I, who was one of the renaissance pharaohs,. He was in the middle part of Egyptian history, about 1,500 years ago. He was a renaissance guy. He was basically looking back to the beginning of his culture, his civilizations, and he had the power and the money and the ability to order his guys to basically find the good stuff, and build monuments affirming what great guys those old original founders of Egyptian culture, were.

He built this temple at Abydos. The thing that’s striking to me is when you look at the facade of this, what does it look like to you? It looks to me modern. It doesn’t look ancient. In fact, it looks really modern. It looks like a big massive five sided building, on the other side of the Potomac, called the Pentagon.

If you look at the Pentagon at ground level, it looks like this. Including the columns, which are made out of concrete. These are made out of stone. When you go inside, that’s where the real surprise is, because inside, up on the lintels, one in particular, that are holding up the roof, you see this amazing frieze of what looks initially like hieroglyphs but in fact appear to be high-tech stuff. Here’s a helicopter, here’s a tank, an obvious antigravity spacecraft with a tail. Here's a land-speeder... I mean, this looks exactly like Luke’s land-speeder from Star Wars, all right?

You’ve also got some other things that look more like iconography. Maybe letters, maybe some kind of hieroglyphics. They don’t look Egyptian. And what I did was to simply lay out the comparisons. Right here.

Now, anybody who looks at this says, Oh my God, you mean the Egyptians had battle tanks and Cobra helicopters? No, that’s not what we’re saying. What I'm saying is that here's the Abrams tank compared to the tank here. What I'm saying is that this ancient culture, spearheaded by Seti I, looking back through his own sacred record, his own sacred texts, his documentation of what is called in Egyptian the first time, which is a chronicle of some extraordinary era that occurred before then-contemporary Egyptian civilization. He was memorializing the amazing guys that did and could build and preserve this stuff.

And so what I think what Seti was doing - Seti I - was he was basically building a museum to memorialize the technology from the time that came before - from the first time. The Shemsu Hor, the followers of Horus, who were this lineal priesthood that kept track. If you look at Manatho's chronology, his calendar, you see these enormous blocks of time that conventional Egyptologists dismiss as silly, or misidentification of lunar cycles for years and stuff like that. But you’re talking periods of time that equal like ten, twenty thirty thousand years in a chunk. If you run that whole clock backwards, this period of time could in fact have been contemporaneous with whoever built what we’re seeing on Mars.

And the anchoring piece of real science is that when you look at the Giza Plateau, when you look at the pyramids form the top down. Look at Bauval and Hancock’s reconstruction of the stars and the belt of Orion mimic the pyramid placement of Giza. Look at how those pyramids are aligned almost, but not exactly, on due North.

If you take a very simple clock, the plate tectonics in standard geology, and you unwind that clock of the plate rotation of Africa, due to the physics of the planet underneath Giza, it turns out that the architecture of the Giza Plateau and the time frame for whoever built Cydonia is exactly the same: a quarter of a million years. Which means we’re looking at an incredible civilization that came and is now gone.

Kerry: Are we talking about Atlantis?

Richard: Metaphorically, yes. In other words, if you read Plato, the actually story of Atlantis, I think scholars - and this is my personal opinion - have been too narrowly focused on one place, one island, one night, one catastrophe. Plato was listening to the Priests from Egypt. He got all his stuff on Atlantis from the guys that did this stuff. He was talking about an era, about a civilization and culture, not one little bit of land, where a bunch of guys did something really wacky and were beaten down by the gods.

Atlantis is a concept, not a place. Atlantis, to me, is the time that came before, which may have included guys who could go to and from the Moon, to and from Mars. Lay out all the stuff all over the other planets' moons that we have found with great, great effort through the NASA database. And which is waiting to be confirmed by some honest space program that will give us all the truth some day.

Leading then, back to the inevitable question, if all this stuff once existed and now is all gone, what happened to all of it? The answer in the physics, is that the physics can go wrong. It can go horribly wrong. It can go wrong on a solar system scale. That’s why're seeing Mars in terrible, terrible ruin. That’s why we’re seeing ruins, not skyscrapers, that you can recognize instantly on the Moon. Another question has to be: can it happen here?

Which then moves our attention sideways, to the Mayan calendar, because the Mayans, one of those ancient cultures, contemporaneous with the guys that were memorializing this stuff, they have right in there own texts:

There will be a date and time when this will all go away, and something brand new will be reborn.

Is that just metaphor? Does it apply to consciousness, a new way of looking at the world? Is it new age airy-fairy, we are all going to love each other some day? Or, does it relate to the possibility that in this physics there is a set of ticking time bombs to where if we don’t take this knowledge, this physics and technology, all the secret classified black ops stuff they’ve been sitting on for fifty years, if not far longer, that we will be in deep doo-doo, when the day of reckoning, December 21st 2012, arrives, and we are totally unprepared for what may happen.

The politics is 99% perception. To my mind, there are two questions here. One is: what’s really going to happen? I’m working with Enterprise and researchers like Joseph Farrell and others, to try and figure out the physics.

The other track is political. What do they, the controllers, who have kept us from knowing our real history, what do they think is going to happen, and what are they doing to get ready, and not telling any of the rest of us?

There is a physics. We're actually picking up some very interesting hyperdimensional, or torsion indications, which are aligning in the galaxy, which happens once every 26,000 years, has an effect, a real physical effect. The question is, how much? We also have evidence that the in-crowd, the Rockefellers, the diamond guys, the Bilderbergers, all those groups, that they know something - or more accurately, they think they know something, and they have been taking steps for the last 100 years to get ready.

What’s really interesting to me - and this was so cool when I figured it out, and I was able to lay it out at the Joshua Tree conference, which is not the first place that I’ve been laying this out. I’ve done several conferences now under almost like focus groups, to see how people would stand up and salute when they saw this data.

When Columbus sailed the ocean in 1492, one of the things he brought back was stuff from the Mayan calendar, Mayan Codices. We were told they were burned, right? Wrong! I think they were sequestered in the Vatican archive. Who in the right mind is going to destroy information? Forget the fact that they are not religious, that they're into saving their own skins, that they're looking for edges on society and politics and populations, and it's all about control.

The cover story is, of course if they're burned, nobody can look at them any more - so you can look at them in secret. So I think all these codices that the scholars missed, they went back to the Vatican.

The reason I know this, cause the only way this could have worked out is that in 1582, when a German scholar was set up by Pope Gregory to head a council to reform the calendar. The seasons had gotten out of sequence with Easter and Christmas, and the resurrection of Christ and all that. You can’t have Christmas in July, and that was what was going on. So the calendar had to be reformed from the old Julian calendar. So Gregory sets Clavius, who is the German mathematician genius, to head this panel, this ‘presidential committee’, if you want to think of it in those terms, to basically recommend changes in the calendar.

When all's said and done, they came out with a calendar which readjusted the dates, the seasons, the times, brought everything back in sync. It’s called the Gregorian calendar. We live under it now. It took a while for it to percolate through various parts of Christendom and parts of the world that were not Christian at that time. In 1583 it was set ahead 11 days.

If you look at the synchronization of the Mayan calendar and the Gregorian calendar, this very crucial date of 2012, according to the US Naval observatory, you can go on to their website - Google is your friend - and you will find that the magic moment, the Mayan moment when the world changes, doesn’t end - but changes - radically, is December 21st, 2012, at 11:11 am. Universal Time.

There's no way that can be accidental, because 11:11 is a code for the physics that we’ve decoded from the monuments of Mars. That’s a long story that we don’t have time to get into now, but it’s on the Enterprise website, it’s in the books. The point is: there's no way that Clavius could have done this unless he either had an independent source of knowledge that was much more sophisticated.

I’ve had a mathematics professor who was the head of the department at Fairleigh Dickinson University actually write on the record that he could not figure out how Clavius did this. It’s too damn precise. So my supposition is that it was the secret codices brought back by Columbus et al, sequestered in the Vatican, with the Mayan Calendar, where they were able to adjust the Gregorian calendar so it would come out at 11:11 AM, the morning of the 21st, 2012.

Kerry: What happens?

Richard: I was afraid you’d ask me that. I don’t know.

Kerry: Are you working on that?

Richard: I’m working on it, of course. It’s a work in progress. I don’t know. I’m not going to sit here and tell you what I don’t know. I can tell you what I suspect.

Because the implications are so serious, and the amount of effort being spent by the bad guys is so great, I strongly infer that it’s not going to be a good hair day for a lot of people. I cannot take that to the bank yet.

There are various ways that this could be changed, radically. One way is if the guys in the black ops community, who are playing with their secret toys, spaceships and secret space program, going to and from, looting the Moon, finding the libraries, doing God knows what they are doing out there. If they suddenly realize that this technology is actually applicable to entire worlds, that there is a physics here that can literally take control of the planet, and prevent bad things from happening... that would be really cool.

The thing that would get us in the end is if there is a real problem coming, and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. Fortunately, based on all kinds of evidence, including the folks that you guys talk to all the time, everybody inside knows all this stuff. It’s just us peons outside that are not supposed to know it. Which means that nothing has to be invented. All there has to be, is redirected from over here, whatever they are doing with it, to over there, which is the planetary problem.

Our job is to get people on the inside to realize they don’t have a ticket out of here. That they’re caught with all the rest of us. We're all in it together because the lie has been different at every level. Even if they have been told they have a ticket out, they probably don’t. Do they have families and aunts and uncles and dogs and cats and mortgages and all that stuff? They will be here when whatever is coming in 2012, based on a physics that I can document, is here.

Kerry: We have a scientist who was talking to us very briefly for a moment. He came out and he said there are going to be three events between now [end of 2007] and 2012. He's a well regarded scientist, someone you would know, and perhaps you've been talking to him. We don’t know, we can’t name him.

He says one is a CME, a Corona Mass Ejection from the sun.

Bill: The second is a magnetic pole reversal. And then finally a pole shift. He said that then these events begin in 2009, and culminate in 2012. He wouldn’t tell us any more because he said he was constrained by a national security clearance and we were the first people he had spoken to outside of the national security community for the last seven years.

Kerry: He paid us a compliment, he sent us an e-mail, and we got into a small dialog. Now we're being approached by all kinds of people, some from black ops, with secrets to tell, as well as remote viewers, etc. They've all got information about what may be coming down the pike between now and 2012.

We just went to Russia and interviewed Boriska, the child with past life recall of a life on Mars, who started talking at the age of seven, and we're going to be releasing that interview fairly soon. Boriska is basically saying Moscow is going to be inundated by water in a very-matter-of-fact tone, and that it’s going to happen in 2009. He doesn’t know at this age of 11, why or how - he just knows it's going to happen.

We're getting all kinds of evidence. There's evidence of underground bases, of preparation to put groups of people in safe places, and let the rest of the people, about two-thirds of the population, just wing it and basically go by the wayside.

Richard: That’s probably a very large underestimate.

Kerry: We don’t like to believe that this is going to happen, or that some cataclysm so massive is going to hit the Earth in such a way that these events are going to cause total destruction and the end of human lives.

Richard: It’s not the end of human life, it’s the end of this cycle of civilization. We will go on, the human race will go on. If past evidence is accurate, which it is, there will be a new cycle, a new set of cultures and civilizations, and we will be the myths of their minds and scribes, and they will someday develop space flight, and they will go to the Moon. They will have people that will keep the truth from them, and the cycle perpetuates ad nauseam, unless we stop it here.

The name of the game, all of us who are looking at this from various facets, is we all need to combine our forces, resources, our knowledge base and goodwill, and most of all enlist you guys out there, and change the script. The tools are there. I now know the tools are there, no matter what is coming, it can be dealt with, because the physics is so extraordinary. The problem is political and spiritual will.

There's a small group that want us in a worst case scenario, to all go away. So they are not solving, they are not lifting a finger. In fact, they are perpetuating the illusion, the lie being different at every level, that there's nothing that can be done. In my research there is an extraordinary amount that can be done.

It can be stopped, it can be changed. The first way that you conquer an enemy - and to them we are the enemy - is you make them conquer themselves. You make them give up and want to stop fighting. You tell them it’s hopeless.

Remember the guys in Star Trek, the Borg? Fighting them is futile - resistance is futile. Well, it’s not. That is another level of the lie.

Kerry: What kind of physics or technology are you talking about? Are you talking about time travel? It’s hyper-dimensional physics, I’m sure. What is it that you see as the solution? I know that you’ve been working with David Wilcock, and he has a very positive attitude towards the future. Is his positive attitude coming because of research you guys have done together, or because he has some of the same sources that you have?

Richard: It’s a bit of both. The reason I got intrigued with Wilcock is because he was independently coming up with the same stuff we were coming up with, and I love independent confirmation. It’s the life’s blood of real science, when somebody separate, that you never talk to, presents you with a database and my God, it looks kind of like your database, and you never talk to each other. And that’s how Wilcock and I got together. We've worked together. We've developed joint information sources and we have done some publications to try and get the word out.

In terms of what to do, I’m not certain that even the best and the brightest of the in-crowd knows what’s really going to happen. I’ve found so many instances where they're working off these old texts and ancient documents, and they obviously haven’t a clue about the real physics behind it.

They could literally spending all this money, in the trillions. They could be building their huge underground cities like in the Urals and Russia. They could be doing their seed bank which they are doing up in Norway. I mean it’s all there - you can see what they are doing to get ready. But suppose they are being misled. Suppose they aren’t reading the physics correctly because they don’t know there is a physics.

It’s so compartmentalized that the guys who are working in physics, developing these neat spaceships or the energy sources, they're not talking to the political folks who are making these other decisions. Remember, it’s secret - they would rather give up a major American city than release the secret of the physics, because if they do that, they totally lose control.

Their paradigm, their whole reason for existing, is all about control. They can’t go there, they can’t say "Maybe we’re wrong, maybe we haven’t read this right". No one has called me up on the phone lately from deep inside and said, "Hey, Hoagland, what do you think's really going to happen?" (Unless you guys work for them, in which case it's a very elegant technique.)

The point is that you have to go by the numbers, and the numbers tell me, at this point, two very important things. One is, it’s not a date. It’s not going to happen at the stroke of midnight on December 21st 2012, or 11:11 AM. That’s part of the synchronized ritual. That’s a reinforcement that this is really based on the physics because the code is 11:11. 11:11 is actually - I'll tell you the answer, then you can go and back-engineer how we actually get there. 11:11 is the code for 19.5, which is the key geometry of the upwelling physics of every planet in the solar system. So that tells... it’s like the swastika, it’s like another version of imprinting something, that this is really physics based. Hyper-dimensional physics based.

There are two tracks of using this physics to avert what is to come. If there's something bad coming, one is technology. I strongly suspect that HAARP in fact is one of the positive technologies protected by all the stupid lies all around it. The worst case scenario, the mind control, bombarding people with rays, no, it’s to protect what HAARP's real purpose is - to try and work with plasmas in the ionosphere. Plasmas are key to controlling torsion waves, and torsion waves are a 3D etheric manifestation of the hyper-dimensional physics in this dimension.

You have a huge multi-gigawatt transmitter working with plasmas upstairs at the poles. Now, we find the Russians are very interested in both poles. They’ve sent an expedition to the North Pole, Putin did something very curious this summer, and they also sent a not-so-secret intelligence guy, in charge of their intelligence activities to the South Pole. What was that all about? It’s because the poles are the secret to the controlling the Earth if it wants to flip over.

Someone, somewhere, is actually working on a technology to prevent the worst case scenario. That’s good news. They live here. That means at least one group isn’t going to leave Dodge. They're actually working to solve the problem, and I can point to some other cute aspects of HAARP that we don’t have time to get into - but they're on the web and in Dark Mission.

They are so amazingly cool, affirming that some group actually is looking to solve the problem for all of us. That’s only with the technology we can see. We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes that we're not seeing, that’s classified.

As I told one neocon some years ago, when I was having this discussion with him - and it was really amusing because this is somebody that lives, he’s a very high level banker... follow the money - he lives right next to George Bush down in Houston. He's obviously intimately involved in that set of conversations.

I laid out exactly at this point, which was several years ago, what I thought might happen - and he looked at me and said: "But you realize, Hoagland, that you’ll get no credit for this."

I said "What!?" He said, "This has to be done in secret. No-one could ever know." I said, "Go do it. To hell with credit, just go do it."

So things are being done. We don’t have to know what’s happening, we don’t need to know the details. We just need to know that someone's looking out for you. There is a component - remember it’s a fiefdom, they're all at war with each other - and there's some component that says "Holy Cow, my wife doesn’t a ticket, maybe I should do something for the planet because she’s going to be stuck here."

The other track - which actually is the more interesting track to me, and it’s been slowly coming up - is the consciousness track. Art and George and I have been doing these consciousness experiments on Coast to Coast AM, for years. We've demonstrated that there really is some indefinable invisible ability of a mass of people focusing on the same objective, to affect 3D reality.

In part, I'm sitting here because of that focused technology, from Art with the Coast audience. When I had the heart attack back in 1999, over the longer term, for that critical first week or so when Art was focusing people’s consciousness on me, there was a difference. I really believe that intervention in that critical first few days really was critical in getting me over that crisis, and then Robin’s long term supplements and all the other things she had me doing ultimately wound up with me having not one problem, sitting here in perfect health, ten years after that event.

I got to thinking, for obviously personal reasons: what if we could harness that technology, that invisible mind connection to work on this same problem. We’ve been discussing quietly with George how we would set up some more controlled experiments, and there was one recently, they had put up a countdown clock, and George had his audience focus on it, and sure enough Princeton EGGs, these random number generators that have been set up under the consciousness project at Princeton University, actually showed an effect, on time and on schedule, when people at a certain time of day were focusing on the experiment.

Suppose we were to lay out in some large media format - in theater, on television specials, this is the problem as we have determined it. These are the windows of vulnerability where intervention would be useful. Then we give people simply the database that this have worked over here. It can also work over there.

In the process, we democratically empower ordinary folk, all over the world, to collectively put aside their differences. We focus together as a collective human family to solve potentially the greatest problem in the history of the human family in this iteration of the world. Suppose it works. That’s our challenge, and that’s why I’m doing what I do. That’s why I wrote the book.

Kerry: That’s very impressive. In a sense, Ingo Swann was able to affect with his mind, this thing, with the help of SRI...

Richard: The magnetometer experiments. He actually fiddled with it and confused the hell out of them.

Kerry: It was supposed to be impossible.

Richard: It’s torsion. It’s all about torsion waves. The Russians, back when they were the Soviets, have 50 years of a database showing this is a real physics - which again has been suppressed in the western world. I’m trying to bring these two cultures together.

Isn’t it interesting that we’ve had so much positive response to our Washington DC National Press Club press conference. We had four Russian networks show up. We had a Russian network show up in this living room, and sit here with me and the screen showing some of this stuff which is going to be beamed on NTV - which is the largest commercial Russian television network - to 120 million Russians in the next few days.

If we can build bridges between two cultures that have a database that shows this is real science, real physics, this cannot be suppressed provided ordinary folks forget the authorities who have been lying to them and they listen to the folks that are trying to get them to see elements of the truth.

They have to do their own homework. You can’t sit and listen to me, and believe me. You should not – but you have the net. You have Google, Google is your friend.

You can now cross-correlate from so many source that you will get a gestalt that most of what I’m telling you is in fact verifiable and therefore real - and if that’s true, you can’t sit there on the couch watching television any longer.

You’ve got to get up and do something... because 2012 is coming.

Kerry: Thank you very much, Richard Hoagland. This has been really fabulous. Camelot thanks you, and we hope to return to interview you and Farrell, and continue the story.



Afterword

One of the problems of publishing a book like Dark Mission is credibility. When you make claims based on evidence, even claims based on a NASA source like Ken Johnston, they're always open to interpretation by many and they're certainly open to attack in terms of the credibility of your sources.

In the last few hours on Amazon.com there's been a review of Dark Mission published by a former NASA Flight Controller - who not only affirmed that most of what we have put in Dark Mission is correct, but he has also told me, through this public venue, that there used to be a time when I was doing Coast or doing Bell that the flight controllers would be listening to my expositions on various NASA activities - and that the flight controllers themselves had put all this together as a compilation in the Johnson Space Center library.

And then after a period of time, probably ten years ago, that tape disappeared. He was disturbed. He went looking for the tape. He then found that he was instructed to stop looking for the tape under penalty - penalty not specified.

James Oberg, who is NASA's current defender, and who's been attacking Ken Johnston viciously, wrote a response on Amazon claiming that this person was making unsubstantiated claims, that he in fact was blowing smoke... and then a few hours later he posted a second review where he affirmed that in fact this Flight Controller is exactly who he claims to be.

Something is changing...



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