Jim Sparks and Bill Holden:
'Making the Connection' transcript
Jim Sparks and Bill Holden: Making the Connection
Las Vegas, April 2008
Click here for the interview
Start of conversation
Bill Holden: ... and everything that was going on. But what
it was... it was the testing of the lasers, okay? They had ‘em mounted on backpacks, they had ‘em mounted on helicopters, and they had ‘em mounted on jeeps. They had ‘em mounted on trucks, whatever it was. They weren’t
gonna run out there and kill ten thousand people, so they were
just did it with the animals.
And we’re in the ‘60s still, right?
was the early ‘60s, right.
JS: Early ‘60s?
Kennedy era, or just after?
think it was a little after that. But the thing that you’re
looking at, is that this was all part of the exchange of
JS: Right. Right.
this was where Bell Lab came in, ‘cause Bell Lab had
the UFO that was found at Roswell... Bell Lab had that.
JS: The original?
original, okay? And then they were saying, “Well, we
need to get that craft back!”
And they were suing Bell
Lab, okay? The US government was suing Bell Lab and General
Electric, and one other. I don’t know whether it was AT&T,
or whoever it was. But this was all technology that was gained
from the ETs, the graylings, and the reverse engineering
that came off of that craft.
JS: Mm hm.
For instance, like it went from... In radio communications
they were able to go to... I don’t know the technology and everything, but anyway - the upgraded technology came from that. Laser came from that, all this other stuff. The electromagnetic propulsion system came from this craft, ‘cause that’s
how they moved - through the electromagnetic field.
Cooper... I asked him, because we were dear, dear friends,
and I did a personal interview on him and everything. And
I asked him - I says, “Well, have you ever flown a
And I said, “Well, what’d
you think about it?”
He said, “Well, it was great – it
was stopping the thing!” [laughs] He said, “How d’ya stop it?!”
JS: Did he feel the G-forces or not?
No! No. He said there was no G-force.
thing that was unique about it was when we did the interview
at the Alisal Ranch. I can’t remember the colonel’s name, but he was an Army Lt.-Colonel in the National Guard that lived on the ranch. His father was the one who went out and picked up the parts and actually ended up putting ‘em
in the Cadillac convertible and bringing them back to the
farm, and buried it and did all that stuff with it.
at this conference they brought some of the stuff from
that crash that they had been keeping all this time. And
one of it was a little aluminum I-beam about so long, about
so wide and about so long, [indicates a couple of inches
in length] and it had these hieroglyphics on it, and
I said, “Wait a minute, I’ve seen this – this
is like the Arabic Sanskrit that went with the Phoenicians!”
And somebody pulled it up and all of a sudden they started matching up some of the symbols.
JS: With the Arabic and Phoenician?
BH: Right, it was on there. So that was real interesting.
We had a Russian astronaut there - we had two KGB members there, and the security and everything that went on at this thing... I would have sworn that the president was gonna walk in on this! We had two of our astronauts there. We had a couple of generals. We had - I mean, it was neat!
you think this was contact, you would know I would say -
contact stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s that bring it to the point where they were interacting this way? Or was this recent interaction from that period in the ‘60s?
think what happened and why we had this interview – that
was in 1995, okay, when this took place.
Now what’s interesting about this was - all the people
that were at this conference - it was a fact-gathering, and
it was a basis for everyone getting together to be able to
understand how big this was.
BH: Okay? Because everybody, basically... there was pockets of it, pockets of information... it was basically on that. The first time I met Bob Brown was in 1995 when I gave the first talk right here in Las Vegas ... no, it was in Mesquite at the conference there ... and that was phenomenal, okay? To stand up in front of 1500 people and tell your story. It was... Oh God, it was phenomenal!
what I’m asking is, just to put some input with you on this... for myself, it started in mid-1988 and not wanting anything to do with it. And it was directly, you know, right from my home, and it was ambiguous - there was no frame of reference. The M.O. so to speak, was isolation, fear, confusion. And that lead into a 6-year period that almost was... made no sense. And then it went on from there, from, years 7 to years 13, where I saw an agenda; and then from years 13 to the present, where it has evolved, without going into a lot of detail. So whatever campaign that they were on for myself, it started in ‘88.
So I was just a little bit curious that you had these interactions when you said, almost, you know, to the shoulder... right? Or that close?
was in the early ‘60s. And so what I’m curious about is what lead to that sort of interaction even then? Was that stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s, where there was actually contact in that respect? Because you’ve
got so many different scenarios, as you well know.
BH: You better believe it!
JS: From, “of course, we’re not interacting with them.” From, “they don’t exist.” To - you know, “we’re not official.” To, “we’re not interacting with them.” -
to all these different, you know, stories, ranging from...
There’s been a lot of military interaction - a lot
of Air Force, a lot of Navy. A huge Navy...
So we’re talking friendly.
It’s interaction, from the development of exchange and everything else that’s going on. And from developmental - all this time through the ‘60s
I saw it was developmental, okay?
when I started doing research as far as into the tunnels
- Area 51, talking to an engineer that was talking about
that there was a tunnel from ‘TA-39’, out of
Deadwood, all the way to Area 51, which is over 150 miles.
And they were able to travel this thing in 35 - 37 minutes,
JS: Was it in the tunnels?
BH: In the tunnel.
JS: When you say they were talking about the non-humans...
yeah. The engineers were talking about it. They said as far
as that technology and exchange and everything that took
place, and it was like the development... in talking to the
engineer who was actually one of the patent-holders that
developed the nuclear boring machine - that kind of thing.
But I was, oh, I tell you... with the experiences that you’re
talking about, it was very much like the personal one that
I had, when I was stationed down in Florida in Coco Beach.
JS: I was going to say, what part?
BH: Okay... Coco Beach, and this is in late summer.
JS: I used to surf there in my early 20s. [laughs]
I’m down there fishing right there on the river, and I had just put my poles out and everything and I had just cast out, and I leaned back against a tree and everything. And the next thing I know, I wake up... I’m here. I haven’t pulled the lines in; I haven’t fished or anything. I had been abducted, okay? And that’s where I’m
lying on a pedestal table, and...
here you are at point ‘A’ - fishing, near Coco
Beach, and then you black out, so to speak.
now you’re at point ‘B’.
BH: I’m on the craft, okay? I’m
in this domed craft. No visible lighting fixtures you can
it’s... you have an iridescent light in there.
JS: What years are you talking?
is in ‘71 or ‘72.
of a bitch! So they tagged your butt back from the ‘60s.
BH: Oh, yeah.
they pulled you in the ‘70s, at least the conscious
aspect of it.
Okay. Now, here’s what’s funny - I’ve got
one tall and two short ETs on my left hand side. I’m
looking up and there’s no other thing as far as in
this domed room, but one seal that’s up on the ceiling,
okay? And it’s three gold stars on a brilliant blue
came back I contacted my commander. He says, “You be in
my office at 0700!”
So I went in the next morning and I get interviewed and everything like this, and I tell him all about what happened. And after a couple hours of interviews and everything, this individual said, “I know you’re
curious and everything as to whether you are the only one.
Let me tell you this; men, women - military and civilian,
that had been abducted - the one commonality that was between
all of you...”
Every one of them described that seal. Every one of them saw that same seal. And it was from one ET to nine ETs that had been in the room and everything. But every one of them said about being on a pedestal and from that... [displays forearm]
JS: I see it... I feel it.
there. That’s been there ever since.
see, you’re like myself; perfectly content with this...
BH: The same way I am.
JS: ...with my body.
ask me – a number of people have asked me: “What do you feel about it? What do you feel about the whole thing?” And I says, “Beam
me up, Scotty!”
JS: Yeah! Right!
it has been such a phenomenal experience, because I saw these
lights as a child back in the ‘50s, out on the farm. And then I had my encounter - as far as in ‘62,
I had the second sighting. And then I went on the three missions
that were actual Air Force military missions and saw the craft, saw the ETs.
no question in my mind. I knew it was real.
Yeah, right - what was the gist of the... as you may think
it would be, back in the ‘70s, with the 17 people being
abducted? What was related to you at that point?
else was said. It was all classified - because I was told
not to discuss it with anybody, not to reveal it to anybody.
And basically, not knowing anything at that time, technically
- oh God, I wish I knew then what I know now, as far as...
I’d a’ taken notes. I would have done all kinds
BH: And then I turned around and I told friends and everything, and others that have been abducted, or are going through experiences, or researchers, all of this. In fact - all three of the missions, I had to sign a twenty-year nondisclosure agreement under penalty of, you know, full prosecution and everything. And I didn’t...
I didn’t say anything about it.
JS: So then, of course you honored it, right?
right. But after that, in ‘95, I...
JS: Spilled the beans? [laughs]
title of my speech and everything is ‘Let the Truth Be Known’ because all this other BS is... In ‘96, when I did my tour, my speaking tour - when I went to Philadelphia, when I went to New York, when I went to Washington and everything - I interviewed a hundred people from age 18 into the 80s. And I said, “All I want to do is ask you one question, and I want a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’:do
you believe in UFO and ET phenomena?”
is 1996. Tell me what the percentage you think were “yes” at
JS: Say the years again?
JS: At that time, I would say, off the top of my head... 40 to 60 percent?
BH: It was over 90 percent believed it.
JS: Wow! Wow.
it’s amazing, because I would say the population believes it. They absolutely believe that there’s UFOs and ETs; and again it’s just a matter of... one day soon we’re
gonna really know about it. And then what is going
to be our involvement, how are we... what’s gonna happen?
can we integrate with what it’s all about?
BH: Yeah. Yeah.
know, I guess what came to mind was – again, back to the fishing expedition in Coco Beach - I sort of got a sense from what you were talking about, just a sense – that
that may have been the early stages of the human abduction
scenario, without an agenda or without much of an agenda.
Were you aware of much of an agenda at that time, when it
came to the masses of the people on the globe in general?
Let me kind of put it this way: under separate occasions
I’ve been given a message. I was given the message to tell this, “Tell
them to stop destroying Mother Earth.”
JS: God damn!
- the second message, “Tell them to learn to love one
your mental and heart to a higher level.”
use 3 to 5 percent of our brain, and they’re telling
us, “Use it. Learn how to use the powers that
you have within yourself.”
JS: Yeah. I like that they...
BH: That was amazing.
JS: It is amazing.
The strongest... the emphasis - and you mention three things
and it’s almost similar - which is the first emphasis for myself and others, is the environment. And, like you said, the planet, our planet – [we
have] to clean up our own back yard before we can even consider
joining the galactic neighborhood.
this issue with evolving, as far as the human species is
concerned... I don’t claim to embrace alien culture and I’m suspicious. I have a healthy suspicion of what is advised at all times, and I let these things play themselves out before I’m comfortable with, “Well,
I believe now that this is what it is.”
part about the environment is extremely important and according...we
are advised by them that this isn’t the first time that human beings have been where we’re at today on this planet - being the population, being the technology, being with its resources - and have gotten to this point... [to Holden] It looks like I’m
striking a chord with you - where we can either self-destruct
unfortunately we’ve in the past - again, advised through them or by them - that we’ve
taken the course of self-destruction, where a handful of
us survive. And then it may take a few hundred thousand years,
in some cases several million years, to bring us where we
are today, and the same scenario has played itself out. Did
you want to comment on that? Because I see it...
BH: I do.
tells us that we’ve only been here for ‘x’ [number of years], okay? The Bible - and we, as a ‘spirited’ civilization – humanity - as far as with the spirit, that’s
only been for a period of... we as Christians know it as
6,000 years, okay? The Greeks see it as being 7,000 years.
Now I was in Peru, and I was part of a team that filmed the Nazca Plains after the astronauts saw these signs on the Nazca Plain....
JS: Right. Right-right-right.
BH: ... when they were coming back in. And then I was physically on the Nazca Plain, stood inside the... as far as the... whatever the sign is.
I was inside the caves at Lake Titicaca and I saw the drawings
on the walls of helmeted beings, craft, all of this. I was
in a building inside Lima - about 5,000 – 7,500 square
feet - that had documented... there were skeletons. There
were documented collections there that had been dated and
everything, that were 60,000 years old....
JS: Beautiful! Beautiful.
BH: ... 80,000 years old, okay? So all of a sudden, “Wait
a minute - what happened to the Bible and 6,000, 7,000 years
as humanity and everything?”
to me - a friend of mine told me what the word “Bible” means: ‘Basic
Instructions Before Leaving Earth’. [Kerry laughs off camera]. It
was given to us as a way of a lifestyle that is loving one
another. That’s what it’s all about.
BH: If we go through it, we look at the history, the fighting, the devastation, the destruction.
Supreme Being - okay? I was asked... my closing statement
- at the conference in 1995 at Bob Brown’s convention, I was asked, “Do
you believe in God?”
I said, “Let me answer this: (as a young man, grandson of a Methodist preacher in South Georgia, and my growing up in the Methodist church, I said) for me to believe that we are the only intelligent beings in all of God’s creations... no, I can’t
Secondly, that I believe in a Supreme Being that is the creator
of all animate and inanimate beings, objects, and life; that
I choose to call God - and that’s the way I closed.
very good. Very good.
BH: And, God! I get some...
enjoying this thoroughly.
BH: ... for me to have experienced all of this in my lifetime...
from a child on a farm in Georgia, and seeing the lights
and asking, “What is that?” because it was a
triangle of light that moved over the place.
JS: What part of Georgia?
- Forsythe, Georgia, at that time. But from there to the
experiences in ‘62, ’63 - the meeting with President Kennedy, and showing him the picture of those three UFO’s
in Germany that were filmed the day before, and the number
of UFOs that had been seen and everything - and for him to
ask me what did I think about it?
I turned to him and I says, “What do you think, Sir?”
that beautiful smile of his, he looked at me and he just
says, “I asked you first.”
JS: Very wise man! [laughs]
then I gave him basically that answer. But I wish, like I’ve
said so many times, I wish I knew then what I know now...
JS: Sure, sure.
just to be able to ask the right questions, to see where
But I’ve been asked if I feared them - at no time have I ever feared any of the encounters. I’ve looked forward to it. It was like me being a pioneer or Indiana Jones and everything, and going out there and seeing and discovering, and everything. I’ve enjoyed it - I’ve enjoyed it immensely, and just like I’ve
said so many times, “Beam me up, Scotty!”
go in a heartbeat.
you know, I’m like you when I’m ever asked, you know; the issue with God or the Creator. When it comes to this, my response is always the same, which is: it’s
humankind - mankind, who puts a cap or a limit on what God
has created, which are the mysteries beyond what we understand.
What I’m finding fascinating here is that my initiation into this, and particularly the 6 years, as I mentioned earlier, has been that of no frame of reference - ambiguous, without being able to really get a feel as to why, what, where, when, or what it’s
In a sense, you... I see something similar here, although you operated on an official capacity and within the means of your rank and what you were doing, but you were only privy - in a sense, it was compartmentalized, so you were only privy to so much information...
and that’s what you pulled together in that period, and it’s what I pulled together in that period. What I find fascinating here is - in essence, we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings. We’re dealing with beings who have evolved well beyond where we’re
at now, which I think you would, and I would, like to see
the same thing happen.
JS: But going back to that, one of the first outstanding statements that you made, which is that the path that you were on from the past, and the path from the past to the present, and the path from my past
to the present, although they had different beginnings, it’s still leading to the same message, from what I’m
pulling together at this point.
now we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings that we are commonly referring to as ‘grays’, interacting in an official capacity, a military capacity - a government capacity, in your respect. And in my respect, it’s purely a civilian capacity, although I love my country - it’s number one, it’s first and foremost, there’s nothing else - yeah, as you understand. But nonetheless, on a civilian capacity, this is the same sort of interaction. And I think it’s fascinating how it - and we’re
just first meeting here - so how it comes together like that
at this point.
I so agree with that because right now I’m a developer. I’m trying to put some resources together. And everything I’m putting in it is state of the art, green technology, desalinization plants, waste remediation, 100% electric power and everything. And then actually where I’m trying to go with it is, I want to take it to electromagnetic, okay? Where it’s controllable electromagnetic in the special field - and that’s something I’m
working on right now.
JS: You’re extremely... I take it you’re extremely science... you’re
extremely environmentally sensitive, to that respect...
weren’t until afterwards?
And it’s the kind of thing that... I was raised as
a farm boy down in South Georgia.
love the aspect that you’re from that part of the country because I was originally raised in South Florida and Florida. And so I’m
familiar with the South. I grew up in the South. Also I did
business in the South - as I mentioned to you earlier, my
business was in North Carolina.
JS: I also worked in Georgia quite a bit. I think I was in every small town. I think I worked in every small town and in every city that there is in the entire southeastern United States for like a three-and-a-half, four-year period.
JS: And I can relate to your background.
Can I interrupt here, because, you know, this is great, and
we don’t have to put this on the net or anything...
KC: ... we just turned on the camera.
BH: This is fine.
may be a once in a lifetime thing, but - what about 2012?
Because I think [to Sparks] you’ve been told some information about that. Sounds like you [to Holden] haven’t.
BH: No, I brought that up. And in fact in the interview we talked about that - 2012 is a very important date.
JS: I stay away from that. I stay away from publicly commenting on that.
that I’m hiding anything. And I didn’t
mean to ... go ahead and finish your thought.
KC: If we turn off the cameras we can do that.
doesn’t matter to me if they’re on or if they’re
off on this issue.
KC: Uh huh.
know, when you have ‘a calling’, so to speak - mine is in an area regarding the environment, as you’re familiar with my work, putting together the ‘Your Earth Foundation’ to
buy up rainforest land - all of it so that the human species
bill - by the way, the issue with disclosure versus amnesty
- I don’t want to say ‘versus’ because they work hand in hand. But what we’re
about here with the Your Earth Foundation is to put together an amnesty bill that creates an avenue where black-ops, sanctioned and unsanctioned agencies, either singularly or group-wise, can come forward voluntarily with what they want to expose, without recourse - versus disclosure in which you are forcing it in their face, and which I think they...
there’s a lot of information in that regard; at least, that you feel you’ve
you know, I think 2012 will only be important, (and me staying
away from that area) with... a change. I don’t see it as a destructive thing. I don’t
see it as a cataclysmic change. I see it as an era of positive
that’s totally valid! You know, we’re not here to look for ‘negative’ information. We’re
here to get just whatever input you have got...
and I just remember from our last discussion, that you had
some information given to you or shown to you ... I don’t
know, on a television screen, or whatever that was at that
in the years earlier. I think what you’re referring to - and I can be corrected - was back... This was very common during the abduction scenarios, particularly from the late ‘80s through the ‘90s, which almost every abduction either included scenes - out of order - of the future; scenes almost in holographic form - out of order - from the past; scenes from the present, so one couldn’t
get a frame of reference as to be able to pin it down exactly
when things would happen.
the abduction scenario in general, what I find is the physical
memory, even if it’s a positive experience, is taken
away. Because if you were enhanced with some knowledge, the
physical memory gets in the way - or the experience can get
in the way - of the positive things you can do from the interaction.
it comes to these scenes, I’ve just seen many, many different scenes and I couldn’t
specifically put them in order. And I may have been referring
to that at the time that you asked me, or it could have been
find interesting is, over time - which these things started
almost 20 years ago - is from time to time, I see these things
come about. But I never know when it’s gonna do it!
So I can’t say, “Hey okay, so what I saw here, or what I saw there... gee - it’s 2012! I just can’t
KC: Okay, but to get back... you had the idea of amnesty for black-ops?
BH: I wrote a letter to the president in 1996, requesting that specifically.
JS: This is amazing, this is amazing.
KC: So you have a lot of parallels.
do, and, jus’... you and I have gotta sit down. [laughs]
got to be together.
JS: You just happen to live in Vegas as I do.
Yeah. This is great. We’ve got to. Because I
have another meeting I have to go to, at six. But this is
great. Thank y’all so much for arranging this and bringing
KC: It seemed like a natural synchronicity.
And you know what I’ve kept strong about, if we take off of this ... and it’s been very difficult, and almost sacrificial in a sense. Since ’88, up to this point, I’ve stayed away from all the movies. And you know, as I mentioned to you, Bill and Kerry, and I’ve also mentioned to you, [indicating Holden] that I stay away from reading in any depth or any detail other peoples’ work, movies on the subject. And I shy away from it as much as possible throughout these last 20 years, so as not to cloud my interactions with others, because they’re
so close - I don’t want to cloud ‘em
So I’ve kept myself as best as I could, separate from that. And in a lot of cases, it is a sacrifice. I haven’t
even seen Independence Day. So, when was that - ten years ago? [laughs] Not to mention a lot of things that have come up. And what I find is, when opportunities like this come about, to see how things parallel, you know, interweaving my experiences with others...
I just loved your reaction to some of the things that I said.
And it is, it’s so... to come right off that, when you don’t know each other and then you basically see how parallel these situations are and the knowledge that we’ve gained from our own personal experiences. Now I’m
the opposite of that. In other words...
JS: That’s your calling. Go ahead, I’m
want to go find out everything I can about it from others,
as to what their experiences are. But 2012 has some unique
features about it as far as the importance of that. And one
is the end of the Aztec calendar, as is stated. In certain
things that I’ve done from the military side and being
inside the presidential arm and everything, hearing conversations
- 2012 has been brought up a number of times.
JS: Even from the earlier periods in your experience?
earlier periods, and in the conversation in ‘95 at
the conference. Now that was put on, by the way, by the Rockefellers,
by the Rockefeller Foundation. That whole thing was paid
we’re talking 17 years from earlier...
And so this is why I say... when we start putting things
together and we start adding things up, and the times that
we’re going through - when we look back to where we started in the early ‘60s
and watching my experiences, watching what has happened,
and look at how we have evolved in the scientific and technological
advances that have occurred in less than 50 years...
JS: Right. Right.
BH: ... has been monumental, okay? But we go back to the period of the Phoenicians, umpteen thousand years ago, the surgical tools and instruments that they had - some are still being utilized today in heart and brain surgery.
So, along with that on the same page, is, in a little bit
more detail, in one respect - which is - again, I was advised,
I don’t claim to embrace, but I have a healthy suspicion about it until it plays itself out - that when you’re
talking 60,000 or 70,000 years ago, and these guys, as in
grays, talk million and millions...
and it’s something we’ve done. But the difference
today is, where we have an edge, I believe, Bill, and also advised as
having an edge, (and it goes back to this amnesty thing)
and I know you need to go, so I’ll kind of close it on this with you - is the fact that there’s
more technical knowledge that can change the face of the
Earth as we know it, in human hands today, than there ever
has been in the past.
could never really rely on the ETs, so to speak, because
if we could have... The track record shows it didn’t happen; we haven’t evolved. And in this case we have a big edge because it IS in human hands, and it’s
more or less up to us to get our act together - look inward,
see us for what we really are, and we have a good chance
at evolving this time versus self-destructing.
avenue of amnesty, where they can volunteer what they want
- and not to go too far, but to briefly say - the issue or
the problem is, is you’ve got a growing majority in
those areas that want to see this out. But unfortunately
(or fortunately, depending on how you look at it ... in their
case unfortunately, which makes sense), a lot of it is tied
in with not just national security, but global security.
they do not want to be forced to bring out the whole enchilada,
because they’re not going to do it. But if they can come out in a clemency sort of way with just what’s
important - that can change things, that would make the whole
difference in the world.
agree, and the other side of it is... it’s just like
in the pre-briefing when Reagan was being briefed by the
CIA as to what was going on... in that briefing he was advised
that there were thirty-nine known species of ETs - thirty-nine!
Not just the graylings.
JS: Right. Right.
others, okay? And that’s where we get into the reptilians,
the Andromedans, ... you name it.
It’s probably as wide a variety of life out there as
there is on this planet.
So that’s why I said... I have so enjoyed this.
JS: So have I.
I look forward to us getting together. You’ve got my
BH: Yeah, okay.
JS: Count on it.
get together. I look forward to it.
a wise man once told me, “Convenience stimulates use.” [laughs] So we happen to live in the same town. [Kerry laughing off screen]
have to. Bill and Kerry, thank you so much. I just so appreciate
this, and don’t be strangers when you come into town.
absolutely! Okay, next time we’re going to take you
up on that, all right?
BH: Please do.
KC: We’ll get back to you again. We’ll
all go out for dinner or something.
is wonderful, spontaneous like this, and the way it ended
up. The energy’s great.
KC: It’s great. You know, I mean, it’s a lot of fun. It’s
been great to see you.
problem. Always good to see y’all.
Click here for