What was Jesus then?
 

Had a revealing discussion with a Christian. They believe so strongly that you can only be "saved" if you believe in Christ. They also believe that there will be nothing left once were all "judged". And that a new earth will be created.

If Christ did exist, and it seems as though he did, then just what was he?

This is not a religion bashing thread, so please do not be ignorant.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

He was an initiate, a descending master, who had an occult task beyond his public life.

He had to bridge matter with the ether through the astral plane to prepare for the reopening of the universal circuits, therefore paving the way for man to re-connect with reality.

Believing or not is irrelevant.

People who believe that because they believe they are a done deal, well, its part of their experience.

This universal bridge is now established and it creates great turmoil in the world of the dead, in the astral plane. They fear to lose control.

And this will become more and more obvious as mental illness becomes more and more common. It also brings about a quickening of events to enforce death over consciousness.

Now, via this bridge, the individuals can be reconnected from within from their own source.

The next evolution will be very personal and not collective, for the simple reason that dependency on beliefs will be eradicated as the individual becomes a new initiate, an ascending initiate.

Instead of being led by collective values, he will become the creator of his evolutionary condition.

This, of course, will require this individual to put to death all aspects of devolutionary consciousness that have taken residence in his psyche.

Life will start from there as opposed to existence.

So, all in all, we can say that in a way he saved humanity.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

The “short and simple” answer to your question is that: there is no “short and simple” answer.

It could be argued that the teaching of Jesus Christ (that is not his real name) have been changed to fit the political faction that existed at the time the King James version of the bible was written, etc.

When it all comes down to it, your belief in Christ is a matter of faith… which is a belief in something you can not prove.

I have seen a wide spectrum of data on Jesus Christ, his other names, alternate teachings that are not taught in the bible; and I have come to the following conclusion:

1. There was a Jesus Christ type figure who lived, who preformed many great deeds & miracles.
2. Some of the stories of Jesus, such as the suspect date of his birth, certain things he did, and places he traveled to. He may not have had the amount of follower, ie.12 as spoken about. Etc.
3. Jesus being the Son of God…. This is where your faith comes in. Do you believe it or don’t you? I personally can’t see any harm in believing it. If he was… then he was… if he was not… then he was not… it still doesn’t change the fact that this man did many wonderful things and deeds, and tried his best to help mankind…

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Richard.
A reality without the unknown?
Who fears to lose control? The dead?

Mental illness caused by fear?
in death there is no consciousness?

This bridge then was shown to us by him. So we can lead ourselves.

Forgive me. I understand what you are saying. And I believe you are correct. But it is so hard to explain to a devote christian without undermining their beliefs. I feel like such a fool.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Hi there,

Why would you want to take religion away from a person?

Not everyone is at the same place within the time of their personal evolution. People need the support of their religion for the time they need it.

Religion has been a strong regulatory force to civilize a planet that would otherwise have destroyed itself long ago. Even though if yes, I know, religion has been the base for much pain and lies. But the lies come from beyond material man. And the religious are lied to according to their personal need for experience, like those who are beyond religion are lied to according to their personal need for experience.

And that will remain until we, as individuals, are beyond experience to enter evolution and eventually to enter yet another cycle.

So, we must respect people's right to religion.

Nothing is unknown. But information is not given freely.

Fear is the sole weapon that death has over man. And it is through fear that they possess his mind.

In death, there is a loss of consciousness as we know it while incarnated. It is not an absence of consciousness but a consciousness of another order. It is an active memory principle that is disconnected from the worlds of light.

It is only within matter that the connection can be made, until a body, other than the astral body, lets call it the mental body, has been completed to recuperate the full energy of the memory of the experience that we call the soul. That mental plane is the place to which the bridge leads to.

We can lead ourselves from that plane but not from this plane. What people have been calling the 'higher self'. But that is not the wishful ego.

What would you say it was that the Nazareen talked about when he referred to his father?

People don't read by vibration. They read by memorial references. So, they get things explained for them, instead of allowing their own spirit to let them see outside for the forms afforded by thoughts. And thoughts are always restricted, adjusted to memorial matter, therefore the astral sphere.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Mr. T,
It is not my intention to take anything away from anyone. I ask these things for myself. And I know now why I felt so inclined to do so. Your words are very helpful to me. It was this information about the astral sphere that I was looking for.
I cant help but wonder if the point to all this is so that someday we will be able to lead ourselves from this plane forever.

Thank you.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Richard, great post! Thanks for that.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I reckon he was a alien

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Wow... Secretly, I always thought Jesus was a vehicle for people between Morocco and India to talk about spirituality without getting their heads chopped off by the self-deifying rulers and snotty self-righteous Pharisees that filled the Middle East. Creating a character Jeshua who embodied the characteristics of the common mythology of the time and who could also tell stories about the truth was a good way for these people to encode their belief systems. But then it all went wrong... people took the allegorical too seriously and suddenly the unreal became "real". And 1700 years later, they still think he is "real".

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

But I might add... studying (eastern) orthodox theology I believe will get you closest to what the original Christians believed (though it is simply the only survivor of the many beliefs).

You know, most people don't know that the orthodox believe that we are a part of God, and that we were originally like God - we were truly made in His image (read psalm 82). If/when we return to heaven, it is not a place, but a state of being... a state of joining back into one piece with God. Hell is a state of being distant from God, a separate piece.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I and the father are one.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Which BTW is true of each of us :)

What was Jesus?
 

I am a Jewish man with a fair understanding of the Tanakh (aka Old Testament).

After considering what Moses and the Prophets revealed about the coming of Mashiakh, which Christians call the Messiah or the Christ, there are many conclusions I have drawn for myself about Yeshua HaMashiakh (which converted into English is the name Jesus Christ).

To enunciate all these conclusions justly would take a book, but I will summarize a few significant items that I had to seriously consider as a Jewish man.

Yeshua is the physical incarnation in human form of the infinite Almighty God.

In our Jewish tradition, we say God is Ein Sof, meaning He is the omnipresent Spirit so infinite and so exalted that He is beyond full description and beyond comprehension. We believe that He is Love in absolute perfection. Since God is Love, His personal care for the human race and His jealous longing towards each one of us individually is so strong, that the Most High God, the Creator Spirit of all that exists, made Himself into a Man in order to be near us and become like us.

It is a great wonder of the Universe how that God made humanity in His image at the time of Creation.

But it is a much greater wonder that God made Himself into One of us. He focused His infinity into the enclosed flesh of man, being born into this world as a human being just like each of us. By doing so, He experienced everything in this world, just as we do now, becoming sympathetic and uniquely attached to us through the experience of His own human condition.

The prophet Isaiah wrote about 700 years before the birth of Yeshua this prophecy:

For us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder, and His name will be “Wonderful Counselor - Mighty God - Father of Eternity - Prince of Peace” Isaiah 9:6

The prophet revealed to us that this Son who is born to us is God Himself - the Eternal Father come in the flesh.

So what is Jesus?

He is the focused physical incarnation of the infinite Almighty God. He is the solid proof of just how much God loves us – so much so that He became One of us.

Why?

So that we could have the opportunity to become like Him – One with Him. He in us and we in Him so that the “I AM THAT I AM” who met Moses at the burning bush becomes ALL in all.

Regards,
Merkhava

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

i believe jesus was a master of preaching the way the truth and the light blah blah blah stuff as in the way to make humanity a better species spiritually do i believe he was a god hell no and that goes for any extraterrestrial or humanoid thingamajig anywhere because a human or spirit anything cannot hold the power and body of the whole universe and dimensions into there being that why we have gods that love us unconditionally so we dont have to make things so complex:mfr_omg:

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

The documentary channel National Geographic have some good documentaries on Jezus.
In one they search for the historical jezus. They found not less than 6 candidates.
Jezus is probably a myth, derived from the lifes of those 6, mixed with some old beliefs, Mithras (persian), Dyonisis (roman)..., eastern beliefs (budhism), beliefs from ancient egypt, etc.

Remember there were 37 gospels. Only 4 thoroughly edited versions remained, where accepted (canon). The rest came to be apocrypha. This had more to do with politics than religion or truth.

The significance of the biblical Jezus should stay personal. Even when there was no real historical figure corresponding to the biblical Jezus, the value of the stories remains.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Jesus after years of trying to understand the value of this figure in my life, he became one of the keys for defining my relationship to God. However as humans often do the stories are often blown out of proportion, and the real essence of the teachings in my humble opinion where so much more than any Holy book could describe. For me the real Key figures where his mother, his brothers , sisters and other figures hidden from the pages of the Bible. Several controversial myth where created to make Jesus a God similar to the Gods known to the Romans and the Greeks . Of course Jesus did not fit the typical God image of the time. So what do you do as a Disciple of Jesus with 3 yrs. or less of teachings and understanding, you pray and hope for the best.
The core of what became the central theology 500 yrs. after the resurrection of Jesus was more politically motivated. One example Jesus Birth. Who was the biological Father of Jesus ? Did Mary have other children ?
Why is very little known about Jesus chilhood and the realizations and revelations he had as a child? Here is where Jesus mother and brothers and sisters play a major role. Why was Jesus kill ? Was Jesus supposed to die 3 yrs. after startting his ministry ? What would had happen if Jesus live into his old age ? What would the interpretation of the message be if Jesus
would had marry and bear children? These quetions in my search for answers became the key to unlocking the secrets of Jesus value in my life. The myth and the historical Jesus. 2000 yrs. of the history of christianity. why is there so many denominations and interpretations? 2000 yrs. of myths and distorted views...

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Jesus was the son of God who died for us to live (wipe our bad karma)

Was any of you born of a virgin birth?

Don´t be ignoramuses.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

JMA I carry that same picture of Jesus derived from the shroud of Turin.
I do not mean to offend your belief !!! I have study the life of Jesus , and like you I have my belief. Is all part of our spiritual developement. Seek and you will find, knock and the answer will be given. This is all that I am doing.

God Bless You JMA.
Peace and love to you:wub2::wub2::wub2::biggrin2:

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Sorry, but no one will take over someone else's karma.

And the karma of the world, as well as the karma of the individuals, still need to be burned. And its no small thing.

@Merkhava
What is your view on Cain's wife?

Is it not interesting that the Jewish tradition gives precedence to the mother but that in the Adamic case, we start of with the precedence of a man?

Because, of course, Cain for one had to find his wife among those who were already there when Adam and family left the garden.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I don't want to go into discussion, but...
The virgin birth idea was very common in those days.
Mithras was said to be born of a virgin mother.
Dionysus was... and you can find dozens of them.
Here you find a list

Virgin can be interpreted in many ways.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Stefan you are very wise.. symbolism is part of the secret code of the bible.
Practical questions leads to logical answers.:biggrin2:
Thanks Stefan.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Mr. T,

Is it that perhaps the Nazareen talk about ascension when referring to his father?

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Religion is fear based and fantasy. Bold statement, I know, but if one begins the process of spiritual PRACTICE, not just rote ritualistic behavior, true spiritual awareness begins to develop, and we begin to see the bible as metaphor and teaching at best, and parts of it as deliberate misinformation.

I have been in ministry training, was raised Catholic and now channel Jesus~Holy Spirit, the latter of which offers very definite teachings which I have transcribed as a book and dvd. Am I an expert? no, but I AM living a life of spiritual PRACTICE. It takes WORK to ascend. a LOT of it, which is why people mostly want to fall back on what's already been done, and then argue about it. The only way to enlightenment is doing the hard work of it OURSELVES.

That being said, the cornerstone of spiritual awakening is SELF RESPONSIBILITY-becoming totally responsible that we are the creators of ALL of our experience. The next step is being willing to ask the Holy Spirit, our higher self, GOD, etc, to HELP us FORGIVE OURSELVES for making up beliefs of unworthiness that are manifesting the stuff we dont' like. Its that simple. The Jesus I know says that this is all we need to know to spiritually awaken, and create HEAVEN HERE, not in some "fantasy" place with some "father" GOD. WE ARE GOD. Here are the two steps:

1. total, ruthless responsibility for being the creator of ALL of our experience
2. being willing to forgive ourselves for making up beliefs of unworthiness

Easy? Not on your life-especially the "taking responsibility" part, in case you haven't noticed. :wink2:

In fact, if one reads the bible from this level of truth, it says that Jesus could NOT heal EVERYONE because of their UNBELIEF!! What weren't they believing? that they were WORTHY of being healed.

so....consider taking on a path of mastery. It will be a DOING path of SURRENDER and SERVICE. Then you are LIVING the WORD, not just arguing about it....

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Hello Vorian's Revenge. Here is what I see in relation to this question.

There are two movements of the energy related to this.

Descending energy and ascending energy.

The bulk of individuals experimenting within a material shell are associated to ascending energy. Rare instances of avatars of descending energy appear, from time to time, to establish adjustment conditions that change the direction of a consciousness limited by the condition of the experience.

An ascending condition results from a cpntrol of information at a point located between the materialized entity and the universal origin of that same entity, located outside of space, in a location in time.

The filtering of information has for purpose the maintenance of consciousness in a lesser realm. If it was not done this way, no consciousness would accept to remain in action and in essence in the gross material field of dense energy.

The intelligences thus invested in material works are used to increase the level of science of the energy on this outer plane, the material plane,

These intelligences are organized in legions, or hierarchies, according to the universal status of the filter intelligence that allows information to be transferred to the material brain, allowing for various levels of sciences as they are recorded in universal archives.

The ability to travel in the world of those archives being dependant on the universal status of the universal source of that individual materialized intelligence.

Every materialized intelligence is linked to a unique universal source that is perfect in its essence. Yet, every ascending intelligence, invested by the source within the material plane is limited by the intermediary, some sort of cosmic ego, who adjusts the energy to the works required in the material plane.

A descemding order of intelligences is an order that has not segregated a fraction of its energy into a permanent materialized terminal. This means that when such an intelligence descends by incarnation, it retains its right to know absolutely within the time of the source.

These intelligences are the great initiates of the various epochs who had instantaneous access to universal science and carried the power of the verb, which is the science of the sound over atomic consciousness.

But they are not ascending, in the sense that they have no pact with ascending energy, but only have an agenda in relation with worlds in ascension.

Ascention means that the universal intelligence at the source of life and consciousness of the intelligence invested in matter wants to recuperate the fruit of its creation, and rapatriate the energy of the exprience it invested in matter over the aeons, the sum of which is the energy of what we call the soul.

There are orders of intelligences that are opposed to this process since the result of it will change the evolutionary curve of the universe and they risk losing ascendency over vast number of races, in the cosmos, who are kept under the veil of information wtholding, effectively controlling their rate of evolution at a lower pace than what would otherwise be quickened, were they allowed to tap into universal science.

This movement results from the addition of a new universal principle over the two original principles that were intelligence and will.
This third principle is love.

And love is not yet a universally recognized principle. It first infused on this planet. And this is the curve ball that changes things.

It changes things because love is a universal principles that rendes free.

Whereas, will is a universal principle that binds.

Intelligence and will are the equivalent of what we perceive as good and evil. Love has nothing to do with good and evil. Love gives what is required using both intelligence and will.

Intelligence and will, good and evil, are the forces that captivated the materialized intelligences as they were infused in the material sphere. They are spirituality and domination, necessary forces in the evolution of the science of energy in this sphere.

The infusion of this new Aleph, love, that renders free, will make it so that in a certain future, a number of men will work on the various planes of reality to allow information transfers to races in order for them to speed up their evolution and increase their vibrational rate, which is necessary to transport consciousness over that vast spaces of universal archives.

There are a number of such races who are aware of this process, as they have been instructed by this order of intelligences infused on this globe. This race is what has been called the Adamic race.

At the same time, there are countless other orders of intelligences whose origin is not that of the Adamic race and who are in charge, so to speak, of the evolution of material realms, and who possess a science of energy that is so far ahear than what man can imagine that were they to materialize to man, man would have no other choice than to kneel and pray them as gods.

They would have no means to resist, because of the weak nature of the soul.

These hierarchies and their subserviant races have invested energy on this globe and have a multitude of invested associated intelligences. The bulk of humanity.

And they vehemently oppose the coming of man as an avatar of its source.

Man's assention is the reconnection of the infused intelligence in matter to the universal source, which means the construction of a personal bridge between the finite and the infinite. Something that requires a total deconstruction of psychology to allow the intelligence to construct the reality it wills, in accordance with the will of the source.

The source is what the Nazareen referred to as the father.

Ascending energy is the energy of the soul, basicaly the energy of memory that is secluded within the form, the form being the memory that is recalled and the energy being the spirit trapped behind the veil of memory.

Rendering free means the destruction of the form so that the spirit is free to travel the axis of the ray that connects all the planes of reality it intersects, ray of creation that is him, in total, and a multidimentional reality.

The next cycle will be related to the destruction of the form to allow the spirit to create forms that are in harmony with the source and its plan, rather than a form, like today, a civilization, that is adapted to the need of the soul for more experience.

If the spirit breaks free from the form, bridging between the memory of the soul and a sub-plane of matter that is free from astral influences, Luciferian forces lose power over it, because the world of the soul is Luciferian in essence.

Therefore, the real battleground is the human mind, and this is why this planet is so important and why so many souls seek experience here, as a totally new paradigm is about to be created.

As strange as it may sound, this planet will one day be called the planet of love. It is from here that its infusion will spread. And those men, still allowed to incarnate here, will trade the science of love for the science of energy, and quicken the ascending movement of materialzed entity, since the science of love is superior in vibration to the science of energy.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I think it is interesting that Jesus repeatedly said in the Bible "I am the son of Man", not the "Son of God" that people commonly say he said. I guess the implication is that all man are the sons of God. Man was created to serve god, Jesus came to serve man (not in the Twilight Zone way, in fact the opposite).

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Pastor Raay Hagins PhD The 1st Creed of Nicea 325 AD part.1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-nl5adjqZw

There are 5 parts of it.

In this exciting informative lecture, Pastor Ray Hagins does what very few Pastors would dare to do. He methodically takes you step by step through the circumstances that led to the need for this meeting to take place and explains how the concept of Jesus the Christ was created in 325 A.D. The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (In present -- day Turkey), convened by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical (1) conference of bishops of the Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent "general (ecumenical) councils of Bishop's (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy -- the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom.

This is the council that created the concept of Jesus the Christ and it was patterned after Heru (Horus) from the Ancient Kemetic (Egyptian) mythology. Ausar (Osiris), Auset (Isis) and Heru (Horus) were the first holy trinity and Joseph, Mary and Joseph was patterned after this. The history behind the creation of Jesus the Christ has been hidden from most Christians on purpose because it was created by the Roman Catholic Church. They have never wanted the truth to get out.

Learn why the Council of Nicaea occurred and the results of the Council such as the creation of Christmas from the ancient festivals of Saturnalia and the celebration of the birth of Mithra (the Persian Sun god).

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

One question then 371:

What is man, ultimately?

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Children of God ?


EDIT- ahhh... I see Richard... good point

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Stefaan: the original meaning of "virgin" was "young, unmarried maiden". It had nothing to do with what we call virginity today.

It was common for girls to be married off at the time they became women- at the bat mitzva (age 12). So if there really was a virgin Mariam who gave birth to a son names Jeshua, then all that means is that a 11-12 year old got pregnant and had a son.

Jesus - the Law of Love
 

The highest Law of the Universe is the Law of Love. It is the foundation upon which everything exists.

In the Torah, this was enunciated explicitly to Moses at Mt. Sanai during the 40 days he was alone with God. When he returned to the children of Israel, he taught us the Law of Love as God had taught him, which we as a national people have then shared with the rest of the world through our written oracles over the centuries.

We Jewish people understand that the first and greatest of all commandments is:

You will love the Lord your God from the deepest center of your soul, with all the power of your physical body’s strength, with all the intelligence of your mind, with all the emotional passion of your heart, with all the voluntary free will of your own personal sovereignty.

The second highest law is like it:

You will love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

In fact, Yeshua HaMashiakh (Jesus Christ) demonstrated the standard of the second highest commandment before and after He said,

“You will love one another the way I have loved you.”

-------------------------------------

These two elaborations of the Law of Love – love God and love your neighbor - are the foundations upon which everything was built. Moses and the Prophets and the Apostles of Israel spent their remaining lives teaching us how to make love the basis of our lives.

The Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is a further practical elaboration of how to love. The beginning four commandments describe how we are to love God. The remaining six describe how we are to love our neighbor. Maimonides later wrote down the elaborations of the Jewish Oral Tradition from the Torah 613 commandments. Listed in the Torah are 365 of them which are positive admonitions how to live a loving life, and 248 which are restraints against negative human behaviors that foster selfishness and hatreds.

Wherever love reigns in the hearts of people, there will be harmony and life and the rise of great civilization and peace among peoples, communities and nations. Love having supremacy in the heart of a man allows him to live as a king since he begins to possess within himself the illuminating essence of God – because God is Love.

Love is not a superficial emotional or erotic feeling that blows one way then another way like the tall grass bending in the changing winds. This is a common misunderstanding among many people. True love – the kind of Love that is holy and divine – it is a choice of our free will that leads us to an action of good. Most times it is hard to love because it is always draining and usually thankless when done for the benefit of immature and selfish people. But when we engage in selfless acts of love, we eventually feel good about ourselves because we are acting as God made us to be.

Love is giving of oneself for the benefit and good of another, giving in such a way that it costs or drains you of something out of yourself, and you expect nothing back in return for giving it. This is the kind of Love that is supernatural. It goes against our usual selfish human nature because to engage in acts of divine love is a super-human feat. This is the way God loves us. This is also the demand of the Law upon all of us. The standard is perfection and we are all accountable for it under the Law.

Those who break the highest Law of the Universe - who violate divine love - such violators have committed the highest crime there is. To do anything, to say anything, to even think any thought that is in anyway a violation of the divine standard of love is a crime against God. This is what SIN is. It is treason of the highest order against the Kingdom of Heaven. Sin is a personal declaration of war against God. It was this kind of rebellion that brought the Fall of Man and lost our personal and intimate right to converse and walk beside God Himself as Adam HaRishon did in the Garden. It was this violation of love that brought death into our life. The prophet Ezekiel wrote the declaration of the Lord, " All souls are Mine. The soul that sins will die."

We understand that anyone who breaks the law will be arrested, charged and if found guilty, then they will be sentenced according the sanctions demanded by the law. This is what we call justice.

God is Love. God is also the King of kings and Lord of lords, who reigns over all the Universe by His Law. He can not break His own Law because to do so would make Him become an unholy arbitrary tyrant. For God to violate His Law is for Him to violate what He is, since God is Love. God perfectly keeps His Law and must consistently hold Himself to account for everything that is demanded by the Law. He must be just. He must also hold everyone else in His creation to the same accountability to the Law of Love.

So… how can a loving and just God forgive sinful mankind without breaking His Law? How can He acquit for high crimes without becoming unjust for doing so? How can God condemn Satan, but let mankind go free, and then not be accused of an unholy double standard?

This is why the Savior came down among us into our world. He came to rescue us. He provided the one and only legal way for us to find acquittal without annulling the Divine Law of Heaven. That is why Yeshua said,

"I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

It is like the Judge himself, after justly passing a death sentence upon me for my high crimes, came down off the bench. He stands beside me and says the Law must be satisfied for the sake of Justice, but if I am willing, He will allow the death sentence to fall on Himself instead of upon me. But He cannot do it for me against my will. I have to personally and publicly ask Him to do it so that the Court of Justice sees that I have voluntarily and freely asked the Judge to bear upon Himself the demanded sanction of the Law and final consequence of my guilty crimes.

So you have to ask yourself: Are you guilty of selfishness or even of hatred?

Have you violated Love? Can you claim perfection of Love and stand innocently? Will you stand on your own merits when you are held to account in Heaven’s Court of Justice and every one of your deeds, your words and your thoughts are publicly revealed to the entire Universe?

How will you answer the Savior?

Regards,
Merkhava

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

To me, Jesus was just a human, like the rest of us.
His story is irrelevant and unnecessary. :winksmiley02:

We don't need to know about his life or his mission or his purpose or his beliefs or his origins.
We don't need to promote those to anybody else, because they don't need it either.
We don't need his teachings, because he didn't preach anything that hadn't already been taught, or that we couldn't realise for ourselves.
We don't need salvation, because there's no eternal hell to be saved from.
We don't need his payment, because there is no debt.
We don't need him to take our karma, because karma doesn't work that way.
We don't need to fear a judgement day, because there is no ultimate Judge, beside ourselves.

We only need to live our own life. :wink2:

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Hey Hallie thanks for the info on the council of Nicea. As we see here people as people have a hard time agreeing on anything. Oh do we get upsept when somebody does not see things our way. Myself included but ;such is life !!!
7 billion interpretations of the truth. :wub2::wub2::wub2::wub2:
Peace and Love to all :biggrin2:

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Merkhavah Jesus was also known as the Lion of Judah, belonging to the tribe of Judah.
Do all Jewish people belong to one of the twelve tribes?

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Love:
When man enters the new cycle, he must be aware that love is for his neighbor, not for the invisible.

When the contact is made, and that he is put through his initiation in face of reality, he will learn to hate the invisible, and then will he realize that love is not an energy to be used for the invisible.

And the more he will love the invisible, the more he will be burned in his intiation.

If man does not realize, somewhere along his experience, that love of the invisible opens the door to domination from the planes over his consciousness, he will never snap the right to freedom and will remain a small creature.

Which brings me to the second point.

Hell.

Hell meant <world of the dead> and not a sea of eternal fire.

Man is captive of the world of the dead, therefore, man is a walking dead. That is what he must be saved from.

If not, then he will have to move on and continue his evolution on another planet.

The dominion of death over this globe is nearing its end. This is cause for much trouble in the astral of the planet. And its repercussions are the various events, both in the organization of domination structures within humanity, and in the body of the planet itself.

The magnetic pole reversal that is to come will change the polarity of the energy that traverses the globe and the face of the planet will be changed as its surface reconfigures to the reversed movement of energy that imprints within the electro magnetic currents.

Hell is the psychological condition of a humanity that has been forced into powerlessness.

It is the condition through which the philosophers have raised ignorance and human weaknesses high on a golden plate, praising those open doors to manipulation as a desirable and distinctive condition of the human race.

Eternity is not a quantity of time, it is a location in time. And it is outside of the level of energy where death reside, for whom time is a distance.

I agree that there is no need to promote anything to anyone.

On the other hand, each stone will be upturned.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

If you live your own life without love, is it a life worth living? Is it a life of any worth to others?

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I wasn't saying we don't need love in our life. I just don't think we need Jesus to have it. :wub2:
If we want to be happy we need love, sure, but love can also bring pain.

If we don't have love though, our 'true self', our eternal spirit, still gleans experience from that life.
Any life, good, bad, happy, sad, is all Experience, and all has it's place in the evolution of our eternal spirit.
Of course I'm talking from a perspective of reincarnation, which not everybody accepts, especially since Jesus supposedly was against it according to the bible (although I've heard otherwise).

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Jesus the 'Son of Man' became Jesus 'the Christ' (the Sun / Son of God) because he opened and surrendered to the inner light, called in the western scripture "Christos" and in the east, "Krishna" and "Buddha". To understand his teachings it's important above all to appreciate that we too can become Christ and ascend as Jesus did. Essentially, that was his message. Jesus was the wayshower of the path to spiritual oneness, and ascension... which is the ultimate "realm shift" that everyone is now talking about, only Jesus taught an individual "shift" in consciousness NOT a mass ascension event in the future.

He was a true spiritual revolutionary in that regard, nearly 2000 years before the 'space brother' chanellings (deliberately) misconstrued many metaphysical concepts. ie.. a "mass ascension" in 2012 and/or a "beam me up scotty" UFO type "rapture", among others.

Jesus also pronounced a judgement for the end of the age that would separate souls on earth according to their vibration or "works". For some it will be the final judgement. He foresaw the return of the pent up karma of the ages (sown during a 'great cycle' of ~ 25,800 yrs) and prophesied the personal and planetary destruction it could bring. Prophecy from the spiritual source has always been an opportunity for souls to change direction. If it can be clearly seen that a certain course of action is leading humanity into destructive karmic outcomes, then at the risk of being accused of causing that destruction, a prophet must sound a warning. Jesus and others have given necessary prophecies at certain intervals yet ingrates accuse them of actually causing disaster by doing so. Who might accuse and why? Only those trying to deflect responsibility.

One timely prophecy was the judgement of the fallen angels on planet Earth.

Jesus said, "For judgement I AM come". Fallen angels have been incarnate on this planet for ages but their time is now up. Jesus identified some of them and as part of his mission, he spoke the judgement in the physical plane which gave them all a final opportunity during the age of pisces to come into alignment with the law of love. To paraphrase the law... "Give up your abuse of power and control of the masses and serve the light in my own as all are required to do". Millions of fallen angels have incarnated on planet Earth during this time, but same as 2000 years ago, Jesus' person and message have been rejected and distorted beyond recognition. (See below.) And their power games have continued in every sector of life.

The handwriting is on the wall and as the karma of ages is ripening, the only solution as always is in a change of heart by a sufficient number of souls to mitigate the worst of it. We must each identify and surrender the machinations of the ego and embrace the presence and guidance of the higher-Self. That is the necessity of the hour -- as late as it now is -- and that is exactly what Jesus taught.

Essentially Jesus taught that the "Christ" is the real spiritual -Self within each person and that we need to accept it in order to overcome the egoic mind, which he called the 'carnal mind' and 'anti-christ'. To paraphrase him:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of God) is within you."

And again...

"He that is in you (the christ-consciousness)
is greater than he that is in the world (the egoic mind and the false hierarchy who fully embody it )

And...

"No man ascends to the Father except he that descends from the Father."

Jesus was not only referring to himself when he said that. ^^^ He was talking about all incarnate spiritual beings including ourselves. Our souls have descended from the spiritual plane into a lower plane and state of consciousness therefore each soul can ascend back to the spiritual plane to re-unite with the Father (the I AM Presence) but only if we're willing to sift our own consciousness and separate the ego chaff from the spiritual wheat.

The Book of John identifies the good 'wheat':

"That was the true light which lighteth every man which cometh into the world".

John was not only referring to the man Jesus but to the Christ light within him which is the same light within us. It is the guiding light within all souls who incarnate in the material plane. So if we would follow in Jesus footsteps all the way to the ascension then we must awaken to the same inner light as he did and let it speak and act as it moves us. Intuition is our guide.

"The works that i do ye shall do also,
and greater works shall ye do because i go unto my father"

Greater "works" are possible if we become conscious of (and fully realise) the same God consciousness which Jesus realised in himself. He mastered the flow of spirit through his chakras and subtle bodies and if we walk the spiritual path, so can we. My understanding is that, for tens of thousands of years, Jesus' mission was (and still is) to reconnect us with the Christ flame in our hearts which is a living connection to our true source.

Most souls on Earth have lost contact with this inner reality and hierarchy's solution was to send Jesus as a world teacher to literally resuscitate the souls of the entire human race. At least all those who accept the impulse of love within ... whether or not they make the outer association with Jesus is less important.

When he told us we are his brothers and sisters -- "joint heirs" in Christ -- Jesus was saying "We Are One". He had personally realised that oneness and this is what he meant when he said:

"Whatsoever ye do unto the least of these my brethren, ye do also unto me". (because We Are One). That sounds axiomatic today but it wasn't ~2000 yrs ago. None of his teachings were understood except by very few.

If we would do 'greater works' and if we would ascend at the conclusion of this life (like Jesus did) then we too must take the same spiritual initiations. Jesus didn't do it all for us as the false pastors would have us believe, but he left his footprints in the sand as The Way to inner source. His initiations are ours too but we won't necessarilly fulfill them in the same way that he did. The outer karmic circumstances will be different for everyone but the interior path presents the same initiations. Some of the main ones are:

1) baptism = the "immersion" of our souls in the cleansing fires of inner-spirit.

The fundamentalist 'christian' church has falsely taught that the ritual of immersion in water is the totality of "baptism". "Now you are saved, dry your hair". Well, it is a fine ritual as far as it goes but they teach that 'baptism' fulfills the main requirement in a simplistic formula for being "saved" and "born again". Yet baptism by water is only the outer symbol of an inner process of soul purification by 'immersion' in inner-spirit. And this transformation can take a lifetime or more to achieve not merely a single confession or ritual.

2) Crucifixion.

The vertical bar of the cross represents the Divine Will of the spiritual- Self descending into the incarnate soul. The horizontal bar divides it where it enters matter and this represents the human will. If the soul can surrender and align the human will with the Will of Spirit then the soul can overcome all death consciousness (all negative aspects of the psyche) and emerge victorious from the material plane to return to spirit.

The fundamentalist 'christian' church teaches that the human blood sacrifice of Jesus is essential to the salvation of humanity and thereby that Jesus paid the price for all past and future sins. This concept of a "vicarious at-one-ment" is patently false. Our souls can only be at-one with the Christ if they are vibrationally changed and purified by that spirit. It is a oneness of vibration; a spiritual process which Jesus' human blood cannot accomplish. The idea that a spiritual God needs to be appeased by blood is a disgrace and a hangover from the worst days of Atlantis.

A one time ritual of baptism or a deathbed confession that "my sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus" simply won't cut it. It is a false prescription that does not in the least, resemble Jesus' teaching on the salvation (the self-elevation) of the soul.

The "blood" (of Christ) symbolises the spiritual light which can flow into each soul from source. It is a metaphor suggesting the "blood" as the essential carrier of the elements of life to every cell in the body, only the body in this case is the Universal Christ in which we all share our being. The "blood" is the river of life and love which changes whatever it touches with life giving creative energy.

The Universal Christ spoke through Jesus saying:

"This is my body (the Universal Christ-consciousness)
which is broken for you" (which is individualised in you all)

"This is my blood (My light essence which nourishes every cell -- each of you -- in my Universal 'Body")
Drink ye all of it." (and live)

Jesus is an ascended spiritual being. If we calm the mind and go within in meditation we can recieve spiritual inspiration. When we commune with the inner Christ presence we commune with Jesus because we are one at that level. He can help us to understand his true teachings and our own psyche so that we too can be washed by the "blood of the lamb" (the inner- Christ Self) and the "word of his testimony" -- the "living word" which is the flow of the spiritual lifeforce within.

The Christ Self is the mediator between the I AM Presence in spirit and the wounded soul trapped in the re-incarnational cycles of time and space. There is no other way to transcend the matrix except through that real- Self.

The Universal Christ spoke through Jesus saying:

"I AM the Way the Truth and the Life
no man (no soul) goeth unto the Father ( none can return to the I AM in Spirit)
but by Me (the Christ -- the mediator -- within All).


3) The Resurrection.

The initiation of the resurrection symbolises the raising of the vibratory rate of consciousness. All fallen aspects of the psyche... greed, envy, hate, fear, arrogance, deciet, etc, are seen for what they are... "dead" vibrations of the ego which only "life" vibrations of spirit can transform and integrate.

The lower- ego was created in ignorance so it is ultimately unreal. It can be proven unreal by soul contact with the Christ flame which separates the (real) soul from the (unreal) ego and consumes it "by fire". The all seeing eye of Christ- consciousness, sees all that vibrates below it and dissolves it. This continual process is the "resurrection of the dead" energy locked within the lower matrix of the ego.

4) The Ascension.

When the soul has balanced her karma and transmuted the lower nature (by loving service to others and meshing with the Christ Mind) then the ascension is not too far away. By walking the initiatic path of self transformation, the soul achieves immortality by fusing to the I AM Presence in spirit... "no more to go in or out" of matter.

This is the resurrection and ascension in the light for each soul. There are many steps on the path, and like Jesus we must take them all to prove the supremacy of spirit over matter.

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

Richard, I think you are closest to my own perspectives here, although you seem to have more of an in depth understanding of it.

On the point of what man 'must' be saved from though... I still don't think it's 'necessary', just nicer.
I do think it is a default of existence however.

I see our spirit as like a Yo-Yo, coming from the One, being placed under layers and layers of ignorance (becoming as the 'walking dead' as you say), yet inevitably, unstoppably, returning through those layers to the One, by virtue of Experience (that thing the One most desires).

It's an ingenious and foolproof method of the One-ness experiencing itself, sending a part of itself out there and knowing it will boomerang back after it's mission is accomplished. We can't mess it up if we wanted to.

Even if someobody purposely tries to be as 'evil' as possible, or is naturally as lost in selfish darkness as anyone possibly could be, that's still just an experience, for that lifetime.
Our higher self (that part of the Oneness sent away from itself) will take the experience on board and learn from it. The Oneness desires such things, therefore we do too. The darkness needs to be explored as much as the light.


Experience need not be sought by us though, it just happens as a natural part of life.
Our physical senses pick it up all the time. We live it every day. Things happen to us as part of living, and by nature we can't help but learn from those experiences, whether we are seeking or not.

So, awareness comes by default.

Eventually we'll reach a point of curiosity though, in this life or the next (or the next, etc.) and try to accelerate the process.
Then we are Seekers, and so here we are... :original: ...looking to take the next step.

Ultimately we realise that love is the path upwards, hate is the path downwards, and make our decisions from there. Love is nicer, and I think the recognition of that is what we call our conscience. It's the signpost in the darkness that points the way. That's why I say we don't need Jesus to point the way, we already have the internal compass.

I don't think it matters if we miss the boat on the next ascension wave through the galaxy, or whatever, though.
It'd be kind of a shame, seeing as it's so close and all, but we'll catch one eventually, in another millenium, or another galaxy.

We've got eternity to figure it all out, and ultimately there's nothing to fear. :sweatdrop:

Re: What was Jesus then?
 

I agree, every person is exactly where he is supposed to be when he is.

The ego might not agree or like it, never being told what or why, but it still is so.