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-   -   Red Letter Church (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13495)

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:03 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
With the shutdown of Avalon...here are some goals to help keep me busy:

To read the Declaration of Independence completely through once every week throughout the year! This is what got the American dream off the ground! Keeping this document clearly in mind will help to keep us in touch with the Spirit of '76!

To read the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights completely through once every week throughout the entire year! It can be made interesting by thinking through every possibility and eventuality connected with this foundational document! It's what will keep us responsibly free if we study and apply it!

To read the State Constitution completely through once every week throughout the year! This is a localized constitution which should be faithfully observed to keep corruption out!

To read the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus in the Canonical Four Gospels completely through once every week throughout the year! This is the foundation of Christianity, whether Christianity realizes it or not! These teachings, prayerfully and carefully studied and lived, will help us to understand the spirit and letter of the civil documents!

The ultimate goal is for Freedom with Responsibility to reign supreme throughout our nation! This city on a hill will then guide the rest of the world toward the promised land! If we neglect our responsibility, this world will undoubtedly be plunged into a midnight of indescribable misery, and may not survive! Technological advancement without moral advancement will result in the extinction of the human race!

Today determines tomorrow! Our planet is how we plan it!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:05 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
It's a confusing world out there, isn't it! One person tells you this and another person tells you that! A man was asked, "what is the biggest problem in America...ignorance or apathy?" Quickly, the man snapped, "I don't know...and I don't care!"

Have you ever, as a Christian, with a simple childlike faith, enrolled in a religious studies class at a secular university, taught by an atheist who hates Christianity in general, and Christians in particular? You're away from home, struggling with a full academic load, working a part-time job, and as if that weren't enough, you get ambushed by someone who has devoted their academic career to destroying what you hold near and dear!

At times like this, sometimes all you can do is do what you have to do to get through the semester without losing your mind or your stellar GPA, and sort out the problems during summer vacation! Is this a cop-out? Probably! But he or she who fights...and runs away...lives to fight another day! Just because you can't think of an answer right away, doesn't mean that there isn't an answer!

I like the concept of testing any one thing with everything! In so far as possible, that is! But one should not do this in a self-destructive manner! Don't go downhill psychologically, ethically, or spiritually! Selectively exposing oneself to contrary points of view creates strength and understanding! But don't allow yourself to get swallowed up by the process! Take your time! Take a step back and reflect on a new perspective before you go nutty!

If you are in a religious environment which discourages reasonable levels of free-thinking...don't walk...run for the nearest exit! Cults discourage free-thinking! But you must be prepared to back off if your free-thinking and free-speaking are becoming disruptive! This is a fine-line! Not everyone else will be on the same page as you are! This should be respected! But don't stop thinking! And don't think that you are superior to the others! Be understanding and respectful of their thoughts and feelings! Treat others in a manner you would wish to be treated by them if your situations were reversed! Where did I hear that one?! And don't forget to pray!

Humility is also in order! We don't know everything about everything! We don't know everything about anything! Anything is related to everything! So...you need to know everything about everything to be able to know everything about anything! Did I miss anything?

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:15 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
Why is there so much agony and ecstasy connected with reproduction? Most people want sex, straight or otherwise, and find it supremely enjoyable, but why are there so many problems? Is the fact that sex feels good responsible for overpopulation? Why is conception pleasurable, while child-birth is painful? What if it was the other way around? Should sex be used only for procreation, and not for recreation? Why are there so many sexually transmitted diseases? Is AIDS man-made? Recreational drugs are illegal! Should recreational sex also be illegal? Why are various sexual behaviors considered sinful and/or illegal? Who decides which sexual behaviors are sinful and/or illegal?

Christians are encouraged to think pure thoughts! But what is a pure thought? What is an impure thought? Can God read our minds? If so, does God sometimes blush? Did God invent sex? Is God sexy? Does God have sex? If so, with whom? Is sexual desire a part of original sin? Why do we wear clothes? Why is it illegal to not wear clothes in public? As if the above questions weren't enough, there are more! There are several cans of worms!

Did Jesus have sexual thoughts? Was Jesus a hunk? Did Jesus have a girlfriend? Did Jesus have a wife? Did Jesus have sex? Did Jesus have children? Are these inappropriate questions? Do any of these questions really matter? If so, why so? If not, why not?

Is a lustful thought sinful? Is masturbation sinful? Is pre-marital sex sinful? Is sexless dating realistic? Is extra-marital sex sinful? Is it sinful to be sexy? Is pornography sinful? Why is pornography mostly slam-bam and degrading!? And how do I know that!? How do you know if I'm right or wrong?! There's more! A lot more!

Is homosexuality sinful? Does Jesus say it's sinful? If it is sinful, why is it sinful? Because isolated Biblical passages say so? Is it inherently immoral, with or without Biblical condemnation? Is it genetic? Is it a pre-disposition? Is it a choice? Should homosexuals become teachers and preachers? Should they become soldiers? Should they become the Bishop of New Hampshire? What about gay marriage? What about polygamy?

Is birth control sinful? Is abstinence realistic or healthy? Is having too many children sinful? How many is too many? Does life begin at conception? Why doesn't it begin before conception? If life ends when the brain and heart stop working, why doesn't life begin when the brain and heart start working? Why is causing a woman to miscarry considered murder, when abortion is not considered murder? Why is aborting a 9 month old unborn baby not considered murder, when killing a 9 month old newborn baby is considered murder?

Is procreation a created phenomenon, or merely the creation of evolution? Is procreation a marriage of creation and evolution? Is sex a spiritual as well as a physical phenomenon?

Is extra-marital online sex and phone sex as sinful as extra-marital physical sex? If variety is the spice of life, does that make having multiple partners OK? Is it OK to experiment sexually before marriage as long as you are faithful to the one you marry? Should you be jealous if your partner or spouse is cheating? Should you be happy if they are happy cheaters?

Should good abstaining teens grind their teeth while the bad kids have all the good times? Should businessmen screw their secretaries as well as their competition? And then go home to their mansions and kiss their beautiful wives and children, and read the scripture in church on Sunday?

Does the church use irrational, impossible sexual rules and the resulting sexual guilt as a means of controlling the masses? And as a means of fund raising when the guilty flock comes to church each week to obtain the forgiveness of their sins, mostly sexual? Should clergy be celibate? Is celibacy a set-up for abuse?

Why is making love considered shameful? Why is making war considered honorable?

There was a young maiden named Wyld!
She kept herself quite undefiled!
By thinking of Jesus and social diseases!
And the fear of having a child!

Thinking of Jesus...He didn't touch 99% of the above questions with a 10 foot pole...smart Man!

As for me...I prefer to talk softly...and carry a big stick... :mfr_omg:

The fact that there are so many controversial sex questions may help explain why our world is so screwed-up...

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:17 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
As a teen, in 1975, in a hangar at the Hollywood-Burbank Airport, I recall watching and listening to Ronald Reagan state his intention to seek the presidency of the United States! I still have a copy of this speech, intended for the press! President Ronald Wilson Reagan invigorated both Democrats and Republicans with a message of freedom and limited government! Remember the “Reagan Democrats?” Here is what Ronald Reagan had to say about freedom and government, “…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

Americans have been conditioned to believe that democracy equals freedom! But democracy means majority rule, and may be antagonistic to freedom! A republic protects pre-existing rights! Our founding fathers clearly understood this, as is revealed in the Constitution and the Federalist Papers! Democracy is not mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution! Our form of government is a republic, not a democracy!

Freedom is freedom from government coercion! Our founding fathers created the least coercive government in history! The Constitution provides for a limited, decentralized government to primarily engage in foreign diplomatic relations, to secure national boundaries, and to provide a military defense of these boundaries! In other words...to deal with threats from without! The states were given the responsibility of primarily protecting individuals against criminal activity...to deal with threats from within! Uniquely, our government was created to protect the rights, liberties, and property of its citizens! The founding fathers believed that a democracy could quickly degenerate into tyranny!

According to the Constitution, redistribution of wealth is none of the government's business! Hands off! Well meaning liberals support taking money from one person and giving it to another through taxation! If it’s not voluntary…it‘s stealing! Liberals believe in a God-like government which exists to create heaven on earth! This creates a hell of a mess! Liberals once defended civil, political, and economic liberties! What happened?!

Conservatives seek national greatness through all-powerful military and industrial strength! This creates a complex problem! Neo-conservatives are eager to create a one-world police state! Is this assessment inaccurate and unfair? Our military is in 130 countries! We are spending trillions of dollars overseas to violently promote democracy! Do the math!

A theocracy is a democracy on steroids! No freedom here! Believe and do what the state-church says God says...or face persecution...including death! The Teachings of Jesus reveal a minimalist, decentralized religion! Certainly not a monolithic, dogmatic, dictatorial, arrogant union of Christ-less Churchianity with a New World Order!

America is a republic, not a democracy! We need to remember that the Constitution places limits on government that no majority can overrule! Both liberals and conservatives have forgotten this! Conveniently?! No…they wouldn’t do that…would they?!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:19 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a women lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." Matthew 5:31,32 NIV.

Wow! Strong words! Too strong? Is this one of the hard sayings that Dr. F.F. Bruce wrote about? I think so! This is actually a new covenant teaching which is tougher than the old covenant teaching! The teachings of Jesus have veto power over the Old Testament! The teachings of Jesus have veto power over the New Testament! The teachings of Jesus have veto power over all Christian leaders in all of Christian history! If a Christian leader thinks they have veto power over the teachings of Christ...they are not Christian leaders! They are simply the bland leading the bland!

It is always helpful to look for the underlying principles and concepts, especially if you like being able to see with two eyes! I was wondering...if you took this text literally and your heart was filled with burning desire for the married girl next door, and you gouged your right eye out...what should you do if your heart is still filled with burning desire for the married girl next door?! Thank God Jesus didn't say anything about the left eye!

Seriously! How do we know when to take a text literally, and when to start rationalizing! Use your brain! It should be obvious that Jesus is using the technique of exaggeration to make a point! He is telling us to take sin very seriously, and to understand how destructive sin is if it is followed to its logical, or actually illogical, conclusion! Obviously, Jesus does not want people to gouge their eyes out! But think about it...if an affair with the married girl next door led to lying, jealousy, anger, and even murder...perhaps a missing eye would be the least destructive option!

So...if we see an extremely sexually attractive married member of the opposite sex in a tiny swimsuit with a nice dark tan...what are we supposed to do?! Darned if I know! WWJD? OK...the general rule is to think through who would get hurt, and how badly, if you actually did what you are thinking! This requires more than a simplistic, "what's wrong with it?" It requires reasoning from cause to effect, and asking, "what's right with it?" This requires a lot of effort, and I'm afraid that most of us are moral wimps! Myself included!

Thinking sexual thoughts is a part of life! For those that have a life, that is! If you don't think lustful thoughts, you are probably one screwed-up human being! The secret is to constructively redirect one's thoughts when they become destructive! And be honest about what constructive and destructive thoughts are! Do they teach this sort of thing in school? Are you kidding?!

And what about hell? Is hell still a burning question? If gouging out your eye is not to be taken literally...well hell...maybe hell, especially an eternally burning hell, should not be taken literally either! Hell? No!! And the Devil...well he's a helluva guy (or gal)!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:24 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
“class...Class...CLASS...SHUDDUPP! Thank-you!”

“Question: When does church + state + people = a bad thing?”


Corrupt Centralized Coercive Government (Constitution ignored!)
+ Corrupt Centralized Coercive Church (Teachings of Jesus Ignored!)
+ Oppressed Irresponsible Citizens (Constitution and Teachings of Jesus Ignored!)

“Question: When does church + state + people = a good thing?”


Non-Corrupt Decentralized Minimalist Government (Constitution Followed!)
+ Non-Corrupt Decentralized Minimalist Church (Teachings of Jesus Followed!)
+ Free Responsible Citizens (Constitution and Teachings of Jesus Followed!)

“Do the Math!”
“Any Questions?”

“Silas! Give me that knife! GIVE ME THAT KNIFE!! THUNKK!! Thank-you!”
“Silas…are you Jesuit? Oh…Opus Dei…oh what a relief…you had me worried!!”

“Lesson Learned?”
“Class Dismissed!”

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:25 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
I once told someone that Jesus was a Jew, and he became very upset! I don't know what his religious background was! Jesus is not a neutral figure!

Do Jews have a problem with Jesus? I really don't think that Jews have a problem with Jesus, provided that they are the ones to interpret his life and teachings! Jesus is one of their own! Jesus was a Torah studying, Sabbath keeping Jew! He came upon the Jewish religious scene promoting a simplified, non-ritual, non-corrupt Judaism! Essential Judaism! Jesus was to Judaism what Luther was to Catholicism! Reformers walk a perilous road! They tend to make people mad! Really...you can't blame the reformers or organized religion! The reformers see the need for positive change, but organized religion does not want to be told what to do...they are the ones who will do the instructing...thank-you very much!!

Do Jews have a problem with Christianity? How would you feel if someone called you a "Christ-killer?!" I wouldn't like it! It would hurt! But that is exactly what Jewish people have been called by some Christians! I really think that Jews have a huge problem with Christianity! What Christianity teaches is very different from what Christ taught! The character of Christ is very different from the character of most Christians! Hence, the Jewish rejection of Christianity is not necessarily a rejection of Christ! Did I see someone pick up a stone?! Shame on you!

Do Christians have a problem with Jews? Most definitely! Christians accuse Jews of being spiritually blind by not accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior! Christians are troubled that Jews do not accept the New Testament! Some Christians want to take over Jerusalem, and make it the headquarters of a world-wide Christian Theocracy! Jews stand in the way! How would you feel about all of this if you were Jewish?!

Do Christians have a problem with Jesus? Christians don't have a problem with the name of Jesus or Christian theology! Christians have a huge problem with the Teachings of Jesus! The Church of Christ is at war with the Teachings of Christ! How did this happen? Why has this been allowed to go on for 2,000 years?! Why does no one seem to notice or care? Christianity needs to repent, and make the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost!

The Teachings of Jesus need to be the Christian Constitution! The Teachings of Jesus, may I very humbly suggest, should also be the Jewish Constitution! Choose you this day who you will serve! Where did all of these angry people come from! Put those pitch-forks down!!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:29 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
There is something attractive about the names United Nations and New World Order! They seem to imply a world at peace, with liberty and justice for all! Sigh! But sometimes things are not what they seem! Sometimes reality is exactly the opposite of that which is advertised! The UN and NWO are often described as Not being in the best interest of the United States and the principles upon which our country was founded, namely Freedom and Responsibility! A corrupt centralized dictatorship is often hinted at…with the United States at the back of the bus!

Allow me to suggest a True World Order (TWO). You guessed it, there are TWO components to the True World Order:

1. The Constitution of the United States of America.

2. The Red Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ.

And again, you guessed it, there are TWO underlying unifying principles:

1. Freedom.

2. Responsibility.

The True World Order would be, and should be already, implemented here in the United States, and by example, not by coercion, the TWO would theoretically spread throughout the whole world! TWO would be a humble-minimalist-decentralized world order rather than an arrogant-theocratic-centralized world order!

Including the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ is not a violation of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution of the United States! Jesus does not call for the establishment of a literal traditional church! Just the opposite! Jesus calls for Christ-likeness, not ritual-traditional Churchianity! Respecting the words of Jesus, especially regarding the principles of freedom and responsibility, are a supreme safeguard against the establishment of any state church!

And how about inviting the rest of the world to become part of the United States? Instead of 50 states…there might eventually be 500 states! Joining countries would abide by the Constitution, vote, pay taxes, and have senators and congressmen. This world order would simply be called the United States! It would be in everyone’s best interest! Everyone would be included…even the elites and the secret societies! Each region of the world would retain it’s unique cultures, religions, languages, etc. The Constitution would protect and defend everyone…except the corrupt and tyrannical! Obviously this isn’t going to happen overnight…maybe not even next week! And wait a minute…it won’t work…it makes sense!

This country and our world has yet to see the responsible implementation of the Constitution of the United States and the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus! They are TWO sides of the same gold coin, a gold standard, and allow for a responsible pluralism! Minimalist Government and Religion! What a concept! The idea is 2,000 years old! The idea is so old that it's new! TWO is Number 1! Go TWO 4 Freedom!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:31 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
Have you found this site to be convincing? I can't imagine anyone not biting my bait, hook, line, and sinker! Just kidding! I have tried to provide an arrow, pointing in the right direction! Not a period, ending further investigation and discovery! If you don't believe in the Teachings of Jesus or the Constitution of the United States, or at least in combining them...I have a suggestion! The following actually applies whether you are a believer or not...believe it or not!

1. Get plenty of rest, relaxation, and sleep every day!

2. Get plenty of exercise in nature every day!

3. Listen to the music of J.S. Bach every day!

4. Examine everything carefully!

5. Focus on Responsible Freedom!

Try these 5 suggestions! They are basically simple, but it takes discipline to do them each, and every day! They will move you in the right direction! But please...give the Constitution of the United States and the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus a chance! They provide a historical foundation which will set us free...and keep us free!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:33 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
It's obvious that I'm a salesperson for the Constitution of the United States and the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus! But is it enough to simply study these documents in a free standing manner, without outside assistance?

Both sources speak for themselves and are their own interpreters! But interpretation and elaboration by brilliant and inspired commentators can be enlightening! However, these materials should not be authoritative and foundational! The foundational concrete has already been poured and has set-up! Think long and hard before commencing deconstruction with a jackhammer! If the builders have rejected the Cornerstone, and are building on another foundational site, then the name of the building must be changed! Lawsuits and firings should occur if the instructions of Christ have been, and are being, disobeyed!

I had an organic(satanic) chemistry instructor who related a story about a chemistry graduate student who was reading a novel during a lecture! The teacher had filled 3 chalkboards with a very long and complex chemical reaction pathway! He noticed the inattentive student, and sought to humiliate him in front of the other students! The lecturer asked him what the next step in the reaction pathway was! The student lazily responded that there was no point going on to the next step...since the teacher had made a serious error at the very beginning of the reaction pathway! Oops!

Christianity has done the same thing, whether by accident, design, or a combination of the two! In any case, we need to follow the blueprint revealed in the teachings of Jesus! Is there a 2,000 year history of reverence for, and observance of, the words of Christ?

In any Christian tradition, the books written, and sermons preached, on the life and teachings of Jesus are good places to begin to follow Jesus! Bishop Fulton Sheen’s Life of Christ is an excellent Roman Catholic perspective on Jesus and His teachings! Have you ever seen recordings of his show? You can view them on YouTube. They were simple, dynamic, and effective! Ellen White's The Desire of Ages is an excellent Protestant treatment of the life and teachings of Jesus!

The Constitution of the United States is a very, very minimalist document, and was not written in best-selling novel style! It's the application of the Constitution which makes it so fascinating and valuable! The Federalist Papers written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, is probably the definitive commentary on the Constitution, revealing what the framers really meant and intended! But again, this volume is not part of the authoritative foundation! The Constitution itself must be appealed to for ultimate authority!

The words 'Canon' and 'Commentary' must never be confused!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:36 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
I have made it clear that I support the idea of a Red Letter Lectionary, which focuses on the teachings of Jesus! And that each, and every sermon should be based upon the words of Christ! However, the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus must be applied to current events to have relevance for us today! Otherwise they become isolated into irrelevance! Relegated to Siberia, for all practical intents and purposes!

A proper Red Letter sermon should freely mix the Teachings of Jesus with Constitution reverencing politics! Would Jesus avoid addressing the issues of the day if He were preaching the sermon? Would He look the other way at fraud, abuse, corruption, war, and human misery throughout the world? Would Jesus pass by on the other side? Or would Jesus deal with and heal our wounded world?

Some churches have had their tax-exempt status challenged when their leaders preached political sermons, especially at election time! Why is this? What happened to freedom of speech? Politics and religion are two sides of the same coin! The preaching of a political sermon is not a violation of the Establishment Clause! It is an expression of Freedom of Speech!

The mixing of the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus with the Constitution of the United States in books, sermons, and websites will prevent a corrupt theocracy from ever arising! This approach will ensure the proper separation of church and state! There are subtle distinctions here, and one should be very careful to not become a bull in a china closet!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:37 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
In all of the posts on this website, I could easily have taken positions opposite of those that I chose. It is so easy to think that you are right and the other person is wrong. Sometimes I think one can be right…and still be in the wrong! One should be ever inquisitive and never dogmatic. I have tried to make the case for minimalist politics and religion, where one makes the main thing…the main thing…and keeps it simple!

Again, the goal is to maximize Freedom and Responsibility! But, I could be totally wrong! At this point, I don’t think so. But if someone reads this 100 years from now, if there is anyone or anything left, they might think, “what an idiot!” Some of you may be thinking that right now. And you might be right! Don’t depend on any one person or guru. Question everyone…even Jesus! He’s tough enough to take it! Just don’t ignore the most significant Person in history! And please do not sin against the Holy Spirit! Even if you doubt the words of Jesus, do not stop listening to the Spirit of Jesus! You know what I’m talking about! Even you atheists and agnostics know…even though you are probably too proud to admit it! And you smug Christians know that you can learn a lot from the atheists and agnostics…even though we are probably too proud to admit it! Everyone needs to be humble and honest! Don’t hold your breath…

My intent is to get you thinking about difficult, yet necessary subjects! I have barely scratched the surface! Please exercise Responsible Freedom, and study the great issues of our time! The world is getting smaller and smaller. We are facing a crisis that no other generation has had to face! Our information explosion is seemingly being accompanied by an ethical implosion! We have too much knowledge and too little wisdom! We are running out of time to get our act together. We may not get another chance to get it right…

Try not to make personal attacks! This applies to history and today! If you were in the person’s shoes who you are attacking…you might be doing a far worse job! Stick to the issues, and don’t make it personal! If you don’t like the President’s policies, then go after the policies in an appropriate manner. But don’t go after the President personally! We need to make our point…but we need to make it nicely!

If I have gotten it wrong or offended anyone…I am very, very sorry! I have been purposely brash, at times, to stimulate thought and emotion! I have attempted to deal with very controversial subjects in a unique manner. I felt that what I had to say is not being said generally. I have felt almost claustrophobic, in that what I am thinking might never be heard, and that it might be just the thing that needs to be said at this time! I’m too liberal to be conservative…too conservative to be liberal…and too polarizing to be moderate! All of this is painfully obvious in this website! But I’m hoping that this might be the beginning of the end of Satan’s romp here on planet Earth! Won’t you please help me to put out his or her fire!

And please…don’t forget to pray!

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 05:41 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
The 'Law of Confusion' is a descriptive and appropriate term...but I tend to eschew obfuscation...and to espouse elucidation. A Christocentric eschatological theological approach to scriptural studies which utilizes the concept of comprehensive concentration...which assumes the red-letter teachings of Jesus as being fundamental...with the remaining portions of the biblical canon as being merely contextual...cross-referencing utilizing a Strong's Concordance...and applying the accepted norms of grammatical-historical hermeneutics...is supremely beneficial regarding definitively and devotionally ascertaining the Christ Conscious Aspects of the First Source and Center of All Things...to fully experience Jesus as Lord in modernity...being careful to exegete...rather than eisegetically twisting and corrupting the sacred texts to conform to canon law (there is no substantial body of evidence which substantiates transubstantiation)...so as not to become a reprehensible and reprobate hermeneutic whore...a cursed Judas Iscariot in dire need of prostrate penetance, confession, repentance, and reconciliation...and in grave danger of burning for all eternity as a sinner in the hands of an angry God. World Without End. Amen.
What Would Rudolph Bultmann Say?
What Would Jonathan Edwards Say?
What Would Edward Shillebeeckx Say?
What Would Pat Condell Say?
What Would SaLuSa Say?
What Would Hathor Say?
What Would Jesus Say?

no caste 04-04-2010 05:41 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
hi ortho - As this forum comes to close, I want to say thanks for all your posts. I learned a lot from you and, also, was dismayed to see some of your video links disappeared, difficult to refer back to, e.g. LBJ's mistress. Please visit my message board here http://www.pyrelog.proboards.com/index.cgi It's a bit of a work-in-progress, subject to change without notice, same for my user name. Also, I'm kind of interested in Jordan Maxwell, have just followed him a bit so far, not so keen on davidwhathisnamekosmos. (You can carry over text if you want, not sure what the MB storage is, can check, if necessary.)

btw - I have sat beside students in Religious Studies classes, who came in with a fist full of Christian beliefs, though I had few. Usually, they transferred to a seminary or more fitting Christian college. Faith is hard to deconstruct - AND! I did a lot of hermeneutics. << very tough!

You are welcome to post anytime (as is anyone!) :thumb_yello:

RedeZra 04-04-2010 05:58 PM

Re: Red Letter Church

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron (Post 261776)
Seriously! How do we know when to take a text literally, and when to start rationalizing! Use your brain! It should be obvious that Jesus is using the technique of exaggeration to make a point! He is telling us to take sin very seriously, and to understand how destructive sin is if it is followed to its logical, or actually illogical, conclusion! Obviously, Jesus does not want people to gouge their eyes out! But think about it...if an affair with the married girl next door led to lying, jealousy, anger, and even murder...perhaps a missing eye would be the least destructive option!

good point

if the attraction leads to an affair

who knows the consequences

Jesus admonishes

to watch the thoughts and check the emotions

for these lead to action

orthodoxymoron 04-04-2010 06:55 PM

Re: Red Letter Church
Thank-you no caste and RedeZra for all of your interest and wisdom. It's been a wild ride...hasn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-y1VUdnQXo I am sort of shutting down with the shutdown of Avalon. I have no plans for any forum participation. I'm an unbalanced heretic and hypocrite...and I think I've done enough damage...for this lifetime anyway. The following may sound corny...but I just can't resist. It is theatrical...but mostly genuine. I really don't think that the Gods and Goddesses like me...big G or little g...which may be just as well. Hell...I don't even like myself. It's been fun...sort of...but now it's over. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxt4Qq76vB0

My God! My God! Why Have I Forsaken Thee?

I Pray That You Will Understand That I Attempted to Give You What You Needed...Rather Than What You Wanted.

It Is Finished!


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