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Old 03-27-2010, 08:39 PM   #24
Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: LA County
Posts: 361
Default Re: Free speech versus hate speech

Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Hi sjkted
I can only speak for myself.
I honestly dont mind what people say.
I have choice I dont have to listen or read.
I would not however be happy if some one was trying to force an opinion on me personally.
Particularly if the intention was to have me take sides and outlaw some one else.
Im speaking generally.
Gobels said that if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it.

The lie was so powerful that it led to world war two and the German race was miss-led into following a meglomaniac who wanted to dominate the world. If he had won your freedom of speech would not exist.
I dont blame the Germans, if I had been a German I would have believed that I was doing the right thing for "The Fatherland" and laid down my life with millions of others.
So yes free speech--- the speech of incitement that provokes war, small or big time, definitely not.

I have responded in the context of the words Free speech vs hate speech.
Not in line with others posts. I am not taking sides. Taking sides just alienates people.
Yes, of course free speech means that anyone can lie including the government. People can be mislead by lies -- no doubt about it.

I've done quite a bit of research on WWII including college German language classes in German history. I just don't believe that a majority of the people believed the lie. Just like now, many people choose not to believe anything is wrong in the world, especially with the economy. This includes many very intelligent people I know. Despite the overwhelming evidence that numerous things are very far amiss, these people and many others choose to stick their heads in the sand.

I can already hear their words. It will be the same words as the Germans. We didn't know. Nobody knew. It was unexpected. None of the Germans knew about the camps. None of them knew about the Nazi atrocities, yet they feel guilty afterwards, despite the fact that they didn't know.

How many real dissenters did the Nazi party have? Who knows? They would have been the first to go to the camps. People who knew about it would not have felt free to speak of who these people were and what happened to them. I mean seriously, do you really believe 100% of the Germans bought into the whole thing? I haven't ever read an account of anyone who attempted to spread the truth about the Nazi party or expose it's lies.

The problem is that they didn't want to know. People don't want to hear the economy is collapsing, because it means on some level they were a sucker, they did some stupid things, and they participated in a system that was unethical. Many people keep status quo, because they would not be able to cope or function, if they went past the mainstream. That is not the same as saying they believed the lie.

So, what's the solution? If you make free speech illegal, there will still be lies told to people. The government will lie either way, so making free speech illegal won't make a difference. I've already demonstrated that making hate speech illegal will quickly turn towards larger forms of censorship.

In my mind, the difference is that if people are freely allowed to express all of their thoughts, the truth cannot be covered and everyone will not be living a lie. Sure, some gullible people will be misled and some people will accept ideologies that are not based in truth, but at the very least the truth will be out there for individuals to discover. Without completely free speech, we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over in history and not even know we are doing that.


Last edited by sjkted; 03-27-2010 at 08:49 PM.
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