CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

[undetected]

Yahweh's name was mentioned in the scriptures almost 7,000 times. That makes His name more important than anyone can conceive.

That's utter garbage and has zero percent of logic in it. George Bush also mentioned "war on terror" about 7,000 times. Just because I say something many times, doesn't make it important. Not talking about the fact that there were people living BEFORE the bible was written and they were doing fine without knowing god's first name.

Please read the "evil" post again until you understand what darkness means. I explained with a lot of metaphors in that post.

Well I was curious about your definition of evil. You explained evil as following of darkness, so I asked what you mean by darkness, and you point me back to evil. Anyway, doesn't matter, I've had too many talks with bible freaks in my life and it leads nowhere else than to destruction of any logic.

Our own ways begat a world of corruption, death, and destruction. That is the world we are living in today. So, Yahweh had to destroy people time and time again to...guess what? Start over

He "had to destroy"? Who told him so? He creates something, lets it act on its own, it doesn't work out the way he'd like it, so he slaughters everyone. You have a free will but if you don't do what I tell you, I kill you. How is that a free will? JHVH is a terrorist.

OK, I'm out of here.

Note to self: Don't click on threads about christianity!

[Jonah]

Nice post milk and honey.
I was also a raised catholic, with many christian friends.

People with agendas about religion are not aware that they themselves are propagating their religion by posting about it. This is ok. They have the free will to do so.

The forum allows much of this. The law of allowance gives them the ability to get there message out there.

So Thats why so many are posting about their religion. But if you notice there are many posts in their threads but few individuals.

Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge

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Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.

for the record im not insulted by religious posts or threads im just noticing a lot of them, and certainly theyre 99% christian and not others.

this thread was more or less a "lets see a show of hands, who's a christian" and then maybe a brief summary why they went from those beliefs to incorporating aliens and whatnot into it.

i didnt set out for a religious debate because it will go on and on endlessly. everybody has interpreted christianity a bazillion different ways and will continue to do so.

christianity has managed to incorporate every new scientific discovery and im sure aliens is just another example of that. i think its interesting- personally all of "jesus's" (or whomever you want to call him you can debate if he actually existed as a person , certainly theres evidence he didnt)
but whatver the case the messages attributed to the man are good so i have no problem with that.

christianity in particular has an "end times" scenario with a great battle between good and evil/light and dark and a lot of people are taking whats coming as an example of that and aliens/reptillians/dark entities and their "agenda" fit right into that (this is my summation and observation)

i think the more interesting question is whether "civilzations" with organized religions and a hierarchical ruling order is a biologically inferior way of life compared to nomadic hunter gatherer tribes. certainly if atlantis and lemuria with their oh so advanced technology/spirituality wiped themselves out and we went back to tribal living and then now we wipe ourselves out with the exception of isolated tribes. we existed that way for hundreds of thousands of years before jesus, mohamed , buddha showed up.

personally i like the phrase "god helps those who help themselves" and everything that implies.

[Jonah]

Yah. The church has had kind of a "go with the flow" policy as of late.

Maybe they see that they don't have control over the masses like they used to.

But being as how most of the world is still christian, I could be wrong.

IMO, they will do whatever they can to incorporate information about such things, so they don't look wrong.

So people don't ask questions. So people can say "see, I told it was in the bible already."

[Frank Samuel]

For you Clark one of my best friends born in Manchester England a funny little english guy wanted to follow the footsteps of Guatama Buddha, he travel to India and walk town to town barefoot with a back pack, few funds and a heart the sized of mount everest, he said he wanted to understand the heart of the Buddha. His story stuck with me, although I have never been to India or Tibet I have many friends there. I have travel but have not made it there yet. I study buddhism from my friend the English wacko. By the way he was white. Belief for the most part is regional, America the melting pot we have every religion under the sun. You know what I think is funny and positive, a white looking person attending the Black muslim mosque in Harlem. Is all in the mind how we perceive ourselves, and I guess the same can be said about religion.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by undetected

(In a query to ctophil)... Well I was curious about your definition of evil. You explained evil as following of darkness, so I asked what you mean by darkness, and you point me back to evil. Anyway, doesn't matter, I've had too many talks with bible freaks in my life and it leads nowhere else than to destruction of any logic.

I can't answer for ctophil, but...

'evil' = 'live' spelled backwards because the same energy from the same source is involved in both types of expression. Evil is negative energy expressed through the distorted lens of the outer mind and emotions. These expressions of the lower-ego are vibrationally 'dead' because the energy is trapped in the form of a lower vibration and cannot rise into it's essential spiritual vibration until it is transformed by the inner-Christ.

As we transmute the mental/emotional egoic lens (by entering the "inner-kingdom" or realising the "inner- Christ") we can, like Jesus, be the 'open door' for the flow of spiritual energy from the inner- Christ to the outer world. Our expressions are then spiritual and therefore 'alive' not 'evil'.

That's why Jesus said: "I AM the open door which no man can shut"

And why Moses said: "I have set before you Life and Death. Choose Life!"

Originally Posted by undetected

He (Yaweh) "had to destroy"? Who told him so? He creates something, lets it act on its own, it doesn't work out the way he'd like it, so he slaughters everyone. You have a free will but if you don't do what I tell you, I kill you. How is that a free will? JHVH is a terrorist.

It's not too dificult to come to that conclusion but it's a misunderstanding.

The slaughter of man by man and even the ferocity of mother nature are created by the mind of man. The scriptures often reveal the karmic law by having the 'LAW' speak in the first person. That is, the 'LORD' is the 'LAW' in it's impersonal aspect.

"I will write my law on their inward parts
I shall be their God (within them) and they shall be my people."

When we violate the law of love in our interactions with each other the karmic law returns our expressions to ourselves. Whether we see it as the LORD delivering his judgement or the impersonal working of the LAW it's the same. A spiritual teaching sometimes accomodates man's misapprehensions and sometimes it challenges them. Over a long period of time the same teaching is presented in different ways (in the bible and the religious texts of different cultures).

Karma = "Whatsoever a man shall sow, that shall he also reap"

We have freewill. We can use it to grow spiritually by serving others. Or we can selfishly violate others inalienable rights to life, liberty and happiness. It's our choice. The spiritual adepts are 'One with God'. As the 'open door' or instrument of the LAW of love they do not force humanity to stop behaving badly. They guide and teach the law so that we can make enlightened choices in expressing our freewill. They understand that nations and individuals have karma, some more than others depending on our actions and our failures to act. They do not prevent the working of the karmic law and at certain times the return of karma is ferocious in equal measure to man's own ferocity 'sown' over a long time period, in this case around 25800 years (a "great cycle"). It is the end of an age (the "end times") and a mountain of karma is due.

At critical junctures like this the adepts can intervene to steer the return of karma where it is due. Individuals and nations can be helped to see destruction before it arrives and shown a higher way but if that guidance (through our own hearts) is ignored then the karma must descend and become physical. The return of karmic energies cannot be prevented but the adepts teach us how to transmute it by rising into a higher state of consciousness. That is the extent of their intervention. If "alien saviours in UFOs" are openly "disclosed" to us they will be the smiling assassins.

[Corky]

I too was raised a Christian but have always felt that the dogmas of the church somehow did not ring true for me.

In regards to the "Jesus Myth", I find that it does not matter. What matters is the message of enlightenment that has threatened the PTB through the ages.The message is totally lost when you subjugate your soul to the worship of the messenger...any messenger which is why I think the "Church" was created..to separate us from God.

I don't think that Jesus or whomever you believe in wants to be worshipped if they have come with a message of true enlightenment. We worship because we don't feel worthy. As if we really believe we were "born in sin" which for me is the antithesist of a "Virgin Birth". We are all born pure and have no need for a Savior.

We can embrace and honour his words in our hearts, permeating our souls and let them flow forth through our love ..or bow down and douse the divine spark within.

Just a thought.

[Heretic]

In regards to the "Jesus Myth", I find that it does not matter. What matters is the message of enlightenment

I concur

people get too caught up in right and wrong and miss the point altogether

the archetype itself is an important esoteric message


peace

[Bagheera]

Hello there,

it makes me sad reading so much aversion against christianity here in this thread. So I decided to add my two cents.

I am a christian, too. And since many years I am searching for that what I would call "truth". You can call it "god", "brahman", "atma", "allah", "higher self" or anything else. Name it as you want, it doesn't matter. Names are irrelevant. They only point to the moon but never mistake them for the moon itself. You have to go beyond words or concepts. It is impossible to explain to a blind man, how a color like "red" looks like or to depict the taste of an orange to a man who never tasted an orange before.

Go and look for yourself. There is much, much truth in nearly every religion on earth, and yes, even in our good old christian faith. There is only one god, our creator, and this god has been manifesting himself/itself in every part of the world, in every civilization and throughout history. But, alas, mankind has misinterpreted a good deal of their experiences with god. And today, there is much confusion about truth and reality itself. Unfortunately, there has been in nearly every religion a mingling of truth with selfish interests and/or with striving for power. Yes, this is very sad, indeed. And I can understand that a lot of people today are disliking christianity (or other organized belief systems) due to its history or as a result of negative personal experiences. But again, don't draw a premature conclusion concerning christian faith just as a consequence of this. Beware! It could happen to you that in one of your next lives you will become an ardent christian.

Admittedly, concerning christianity, one has to look very carefully and very deep. But truth is there, I am convinced of that. It is the same truth as in buddhism, in hinduism, islam and any other religion. Christian faith has absolutely nothing in common with selfishness. Christian faith doesn't oblige you to believe that our world has been created literally in 6 days nearly 6000 years ago or that Darwin has been on a false track or that Mother Mary has been a virgin. No. Christian faith has a lot to do with love - unconditional love - and with total altruism, a love that even accepts to die for others. It has a lot to do with seeing god or Jesus/Christ in your neighbor and not accepting when you see him suffer. It has a lot to do with developing compassion to all living beings and not to stop with this feeling but to change negative circumstances into positive. It has to do with sacrificing yourself for the needs of others, to live for others, to die for others. It has to do with the comforting certainty that our own suffering isn't insane, but that god himself is suffering with us (he/it just don't want to infringe upon our free will, and yes, we have chosen our suffering by our free will, I believe), it has to do with the absolute confidence, that everything is good and/or in the end will turn out good, and finally with the certainty, that death is not the end of all, but that we will evolve until we reach perfection.

A last word to clarkkent, the original poster. It even doesn't matter, if you cling to a religion or not. It's not important. Just follow your inner voice, follow that which you feel is important in your life. Be tolerant. Don't disrespect those who cling to a (organized) belief system. And what concerns me: Please don't think of me as being boastful or "holier-than-you". With this contribution it is not my intention to sound arrogant or to appear a wiseacre. I just want to share my experience with christian faith. There is much good in it. To summarize it in one single sentence: Christian faith could have been one of the highest evolved religion mankind ever has developed, but nowadays it is in a really bad shape and it is neither better nor worse than any other religion. Perhaps in the decades to come it will be replaced by "something better". We will see.

Finally, sorry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker and I have very little practice.

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Bagheera

A last word to clarkkent, the original poster. It even doesn't matter, if you cling to a religion or not. It's not important. Just follow your inner voice, follow that which you feel is important in your life. Be tolerant. Don't disrespect those who cling to a (organized) belief system.

eh? i dont remember disrespecting anyone or their faith- and i consider myself pretty tolerant and i do listen to my "gut" which is telling me to abandon this forum because its turned into something i dont vibe with. (the first couple weeks were pretty great but the vast majority of rational people have left)

adios muchachos, good luck and be well

[aiwass322]

Originally Posted by Bagheera

it makes me sad reading so much aversion against christianity here in this thread.

Since I am one of the people who even came close to rip on Christianity here I thought I would share some insights on why (and let clarkkent of the hook since his only part in this is starting a good thread with a discussion that is really necessary).

First of all. I am not a fan of blind following. In any case. Religion, politics it does not matter. If you loose your objective ability then you have lost. No matter what ideology you are clinging to. There is one thing finding symbolic meaning and guidance in scripture. To be able to read between the lines and not take things too litterally, to access the core knowledge open minded.

Sadly the monotheistic religions are the worst faiths EVER to be able to teach this to their respective followings. One can almost suspect that they deliberately (oh really? ) keep their teachings on a level that transforms the message into a construct of power. A tool for using a grain of light to spread a veil of darkness.

Corruption is a property of man. Not of God or his teachings. But certainly one can admit that Christianity has made a real ass of itself when it comes to corrupting itself so far from the original teachings that Jesus must be at least a bit dissapointed on what happend to his teachings. I can imagine his Father walking around like a restless schoolteacher thinking: "What did I do wrong? I tried spanking them, rewarding them, I gave them a nice stay in Egpyt, I sent my Son, now WHAT?"

And please don´t ask me "in what way" Christianity is corrupt. Because then I will refer you back to the history books without supper and then straight to bed (please pardon my sense of humor, not trying to be sarcastic).

After this long and very subjective rant it is easy to dismiss me as a "hatemonger" or "christ hater" or whatever. That is the price I have to pay.
But please consider my point here. Not only is Christianity corrupt but it is also a "clipbook" of faiths that are much older and it´s scriptures are highly CENSORED.

I mean if you have a book that should contain the highest truths of all. Then you find out that it has practically stolen a few ideas of older origin (hebrew, sumerian, zoroastrian etc), mistranslate words that give important sentences a whole new meaning (how about the plural error that transformed "Gods" into "God" and started the whole mess), cut out the parts that does not fit in to the main agenda (in some bible versions the Nephilim are left out) and purposly left out teachings that eventually surface to the public anyway (dead sea scrolls anyone?). And on top of that do some extra editing of the texts when the powers at be feels that it has to be adjusted (Kings James bible etc). Then where is the truth in it? Any other book than a religous one would fall under HEAVY critique. Why should religious ones be treated different?

Please understand that I am not trying to attack sincere and loving people that claim to be christian. But the many "weak links" in the monotheistic faiths. Islam included to a certain degree.

Now let the wrath of almighty "GOD" reign upon me. For this is the thing you should not do to Christianity, you should not question it. People have died for saying these kind of things you know ....

Do what thou whilst ...