SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

trainedobserver: Just out of interest, does Matthew go around the world making all the crop circles, he must be a busy guy.

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

[waitinginthewings]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.

The problem I have is that this theory does not explain how a crop circle can happen in a matter of minutes, & where strange glowing orb like objects have been photographed above the circle, implying the possibility that the circle was been made by this object, or had some other connection to it. There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

[hollylindin]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

I agree, Waiting. I find just as much negativity in those who try to debunk everything as those who think there's always a conspiracy (although, in the world we live in right now, I would say MOST are conspiracy because the lies of the powers that were are so obvious).

<3

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.
...
Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

Ha! That is the whole point I am trying to make here. The issue isn't clouded ... it is a cloud. And it is NOT easy to jump on the human's make crop circles bandwagon. At least it wasn't for me or many others. It took a great deal of digging, head scratching, and changing of opinions and beliefs.

I have seen absolutely no evidence to substantiate reports of instantly generated crop circles. If you can supply some I'll gladly review it and change my opinion if it merits changing.

The most famous video of a orb creating a crop circle (Olivers Castle) is a self-confessed (John Wabe) hoax. Look it up. Now one of the amazing things about this phenomena is that even after I have provided folks with enough information to investigate this for themselves 99% them will not but will rather be content to believe they have actually seen something they haven't because they just know, just know in their heart of hearts, that humans cannot make those things.

I mean ... crop circles makers have stood in formations they have made and told researchers "... made this one last night... got me plans, boards, and ropes in the boot ... wanna see?" and faced ridicule, disbelief, and accusations of working for MI5. No wonder many of them are having such a cynical laugh at the whole business of crop circle "researchers" and believers.

It is an amazing and fascinating phenomena to be sure.

[kriya]

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

OK,

Sorry for not reading your original post properly. Yet I still have to disagree with you basic premise. When you walk along the fields in Wiltshire you don't generally get electric shocks from the ground. Now I would agree that energy could be detected in hoaxed circles due to ley lines etc.. but not to the extent that I experienced it. I am not actually of the opinion that they are made by ETs, however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

We won't agree, so I am just going to leave it at that.

Love,

Kriya

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

OK,
... but not to the extent that I experienced it.

How could you possibly "know" this?

Originally Posted by kriya

... however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

Oddly enough, I've given you the resources to review demonstrations and testimony that provide evidence provided by actual crop circle makers themselves that show that crop circles are made by human beings. Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly? See where I'm coming from? See where it is going?

Again. I encourage everyone reading this to view the documentaries and videos provided by Matthew Williams (youtuber truthseeker666) on how crop circles are made, who makes them, the veracity of popular researchers, and so forth before reading this thread any further.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly?
.

My own experience.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by kriya

My own experience.

Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

[hollylindin]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

Oh, yes, Kriya, I would LOVE to hear about your experience!

<3

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

My own experience.

This is like pulling teeth.

What is your experience?

[Snowbird]

The orbs are very busy!!

[skysurfer]

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

Thank you for posting this one. Yes the RVDB case has been debunked and proven fake from the beginning when he started taking pictures of the so called aliens which were paper cut out figures held in front of the camera.

http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/images...pperwapper.jpg

And the 'mud men' photo's proven to be fakery also.

http://www.ufologie.net/pics/crophoevenvdb05.jpg

Same goes for the ufo photo's he took which are also on the blt site.

http://www.bltresearch.com/robbert/ufophotos.php

All this on the same site where they present the so called 'evidence' of genuine formations. Makes you wonder about the credibility of this science/research isn't it.

[skysurfer]

I am not altogether satisfied he has been successfully debunked - just because somebody can photograph cut outs, doesn't mean they have done.

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

And I know the existence of images like the ones claimed to be paranormally obtained is evidence for some of fakery but in the history of psychic research there are cases where psychic photos have matched existing ones, with no evidence of trickery.

In any case I have heard that there are subtle differences between existing photos and Robbert's claimed psychic ones.

This whole case very much needs Nancy Talbott and RVDB tackling all these fake allegations and refuting them strongly, if they can.

On the other hand Nancy has been a serious researcher for many years and I would be very surprised if she would have stayed with this case so long if there wasn't something substantial and paranormal, persuading her to stay with it.

PS I can't find the buttons to press to open the quick reply function. What's the difference between QR and this one?

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.

Look it up it's all over the internet.

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html

I suppose you don't understand dutch so get a translator and see for yourself.

http://www.skepsis.nl/wonderman.html
http://www.skepsis.nl/robbertvandenbroeke.html

18 threads full of evidence he is playing people's minds.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/799978/1/25

As long as he doesn't sell video's etc people can't drag him into court for confession.

In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago.

A few years back the same occured with the so called psychic medium Jomanda.
Eventually she had to come out with the truth that she misled people in order to sell books.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.
...

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

Thx for your input Trainedobserver. What kept you interested in the UFO phenomena? Did you manage to hold on to some of the 'genuine' cases or some of your own experience in this field?

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

Thx for your input Trainedobserver. What kept you interested in the UFO phenomena? Did you manage to hold on to some of the 'genuine' cases or some of your own experience in this field?

Richard Dolan's and Jacques Vallee's work have kept me interested and given me some ...hope if you will. I've never seen a UFO myself or had any real 'experience' myself.

I think the Allagash Abductions and the Rendlesham Forest incident, among others, are genuine. What is really going on in even the strongest cases is really an unknown though.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Richard Dolan's and Jacques Vallee's work have kept me interested and given me some ...hope if you will. I've never seen a UFO myself or had any real 'experience' myself.

I think the Allagash Abductions and the Rendlesham Forest incident, among others, are genuine. What is really going on in even the strongest cases is really an unknown though.

I've not really researched the cases you named, surely i've heard about them.
I've had one UFO encounter which was documented by me and another witness in 2005. Maybe i'll post it one day. I've had a few weird experiences but i can't surely tell what it exactly was. Experiencing stuff doesn't always mean you are able to understand and explain what really happened.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

I've not really researched the cases you named, surely i've heard about them.
I've had one UFO encounter which was documented by me and another witness in 2005. Maybe i'll post it one day. I've had a few weird experiences but i can't surely tell what it exactly was. Experiencing stuff doesn't always mean you are able to understand and explain what really happened.

I would certainly be interested in hearing about your sighting. You're right about experiencing things though. It is compounded by the fact that we cannot really experience anything directly (we are insulated/isolated by our senses and brain/mind system) we are only left with whatever version of our sensory input that our individual brains choose to manifest in the mind. That is why two people can witness the same event and come away with totally different experiences.

On a side note, I once came out of the house at five in the morning to pick up the paper. I had been reading about a triangle UFO flap the day before. As I looked up into the dark morning sky I saw a massive triangular formation of lights slowly making its way over the street toward me. I froze like a deer in headlights. For several seconds I was completely astonished. An amazing and delightful sensation. Then several of the lights broke formation and returned to it. I noticed that neither line of lights were perfectly aligned. As the formation passed directly overhead I realized what it was. A flight of birds whose bellies were reflecting the rising sun. I chuckled, snatched up the paper, and went back in the house. (please be aware that I AM NOT saying that other triangles of lights someone else may have seen were birds as well)

The most compelling evidence for UFOs, in my opinion, is the mountain of genuine FOIA documents that indicate the governments extreme interest in the subject and their efforts to control information about UFOs at all costs.

Crop circles ... I think the government had those sussed out some time ago seeing as they happily prosecute the true circle makers. Their interest or involvement in circles can only be seen as another effort to divert attention from genuine UFO phenomena ... in my opinion of course. Your mileage may vary.

This thread about snow and crop circles has me wanting to attempt to construct one myself. However, as I live in the U.S. where every other person is packing heat, and most certainly farmers are, and where people are shot and killed over smaller things than trampling someones crops, I am shall we say ... feeling a bit inhibited from doing so.

PEACE, LOVE, and all that jazz people!

[371]

Thanks for your overview, which relates to most crop circles in general.

I wasn't clear enough in my post, I meant those specific CCs that I posted pics of. Man made wasn't what I was talking about. Nevermind though. What's done is done.


BTW- I am the one was out of line, NOT nykki. Funny though that no one had the guts to accept her challenge. But that is over now, and I will drop it.

I am done with this thread, in the spirit of ending conflict within it.

I take nothing back.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by 371

Thanks for your overview, which relates to most crop circles in general.

I wasn't clear enough in my post, I meant those specific CCs that I posted pics of. Man made wasn't what I was talking about. Nevermind though. What's done is done.


BTW- I am the one was out of line, NOT nykki. Funny though that no one had the guts to accept her challenge. But that is over now, and I will drop it.

I am done with this thread, in the spirit of ending conflict within it.

I take nothing back.

Hang on, did we miss something?
Don't be upset please.
Reform your question maybe?

You have to understand giving names won't solve anything.
That is not where the problem is.

So come back, don't make me beg here

[Soulcrafter]

RVDB ufo photo VS Billy meier ufo photo:



clear as daylight: FAKE!

done by justme.