Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Ruach

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe.

People can and do change. I offer myself as Exhibit A. Until about two years ago I was interested in the UFO phenomenon but had never seen anything sufficiently convincing to make me take it seriously. I ran into the Disclosure Project which convinced me their might be something to it, and eventually went to CSETI training and saw for myself. I now have ongoing contacts. There's really no belief involved in that aspect of things. It happens. It's repeatable, and others can see it. On the spiritual side, it was a drastic 180 degree turnabout, from hard core atheist and materialist to, well, something different. A little bit rough on me and those around me. It's still feels like it's just the start of a long process of growth.

[Ruach]

Jnana, what do you mean by on going contact? Can you elaborate?

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Ruach

Jnana, what do you mean by on going contact? Can you elaborate?

A combination of telepathic contact and sightings. I don't get that much information out of the telepathic contact - occasionally a confirmation for something I'm thinking. I feel that I'm better at sending than receiving so sometimes the confirmation is by way of a physical display in the sky. After a while you figure out what the various "gestures" mean (lines drawn in the sky in various ways). I even suggested one for "no" and they started using it. Most of my sightings are in response to a request. Occasionally they will just show up when I step outside and show me something. These are usually the most interesting. This happens as often as weekly, usually less frequently. If I haven't seen them for a while I will request a sighting and they almost always oblige. This all started with my first CSETI training a little over a year ago. I'm still working on closer contact, seeing the beings, better contact in meditation, etc. Maybe in time. The closest so far has been an amazing disk of light about 100 yards away at treetop level on a foggy morning. Most recent sighting was about a week ago - a teardrop shaped craft streaking across the sky.

[Ross H]

Originally Posted by Ruach

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts. Again, my goal is to think critically about this issue and to analyze it at every angle however hard it may be. Let me also say that I do not, under any circumstances, discount anyone's experiences related to UFO/ET phenomena. I myself have seen a UFO. I'm just trying to get at the root, I suppose, of the "how" and the "why" we all believe what we believe.

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe. But for the rest of us in the middle, we continue to discriminate, research, learn, and explore this subject without bias or assumptions.

EST: 12 billion Galaxies and climbing (as they find more) Each Galaxy: 10 billion stars+ and counting, this Universe alone, Many Astro Physicist are now saying 'Mutiverse's, floating around what they call the 'BULK' like soap bubbles, if you will, Then we take into account the highly plausable multi dimensional theory(no 'hard' evidence as yet) and suspected to be infinate numbers of these, as with Multiverse's...

Logic, tells me we are not alone, Fractal science show's us the Macro/Micro self simulating model, each part is the same as the whole.

For me, I don't need hard evidence, The above mentioned is a good place to start to ponder its magnificants as Im sure you do. I kinda like not knowing it 'ALL'...

Peace

[lightblue]

The world of ringings is another history, im talking about hardcore objetive reality. Not intuition. We have to be careful on how we use our intuition, not to let it cloud our entire mind on it´s behalf. Just be balanced.

in response to Leunamros

No i didn't quite get your point, i still don't, but for what concerns your comment above, i can only say: speak for yourself. some of us may not feel so tiny at all at all at all!I think we are much greater than the society have us believe.
from a position of minuteness - what your aspirations can be?

i get the sense that we are born to feel great about ourselves.
just curious - what is it that makes it feel good and/or and/or make any sense and/or know more while feeling tiny?

best wishes

[Leunamros]

Originally Posted by Ruach

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.

There are official documents that, seems to prove the existence of some alien intervention, but, even then, i dont get the thing i wanna get: hardcore evidence; Greer hasn´t done that yet to the point i dig it with my limited intelligence. One document.... means nothing, just a paper that says something.... you buy it or not.

Look at the Gary Mckinnon testimony... seems credible, and all that, the guy is suffering, facing the threat of prison and all that... but, even in those hard circumstances, im not convinced. No proof at all of anything, he saw some names in a computer, some bunch of words, bunch of words, that compromised his legal liberty.

The punishment he receives now is for violating a law of privacy, not for discovering there are aliens out there...

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i can´t figure out it´s nature, that´s all.

Originally Posted by lightblue

in response to Leunamros

No i didn't quite get your point, i still don't, but for what concerns your comment above, i can only say: speak for yourself. some of us may not feel so tiny at all at all at all!I think we are much greater than the society have us believe.
from a position of minuteness - what your aspirations can be?

i get the sense that we are born to feel great about ourselves.
just curious - what is it that makes it feel good and/or and/or make any sense and/or know more while feeling tiny?

best wishes

It´s about that whenever you want to travel around everything that it is, that it seems to be, or that is yet created to be, in my own opinion, you have to use paradoxes as the fuel.

Humans here in this planet are trapped because they need a father to use as an excuse to refuse their own power.

They feel ashamed of what they are: beings more powerful than the more powerful being they have ever imagined.

If you wanna really feel the love the universe has to offer you, let it embrace you, as it has to be bigger than you in your mind. BUT, sadly, you have to see something that convinces you of that, really, you have to see real hardocre evidence, or you will dismiss all of this.

I didnt have found any technique to do this, as it seems there isn´t anyone to do such a thing. I have only realized we are pathetic beings, and that, it all starts from there. From stopping being so sophisticated, and just more human, vulnerable, mortal, lovely, only under those critical conditions.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Leunamros

the absence of evidence, it´s not the evidence of it´s absence, yeah, im aware. But, if you choose either side you are gullible.

From my perspective, humilty is the best answer to our situation in the cosmos. So we can feel better what is goin on.

You know something?, we have to feel ourselves tiny, to perceive the grandeur of what´s around us.

And, the truth be told, we are VEEERY tiny, very tiny.

When I go to my farm, on a clear night there are millions and millions of stars in the sky.

I think that makes me tiny.

That puts me in my place.

I think I get where you are coming from (I mean this in more than one sense by the way).

A..

[Leunamros]

the last time i felt tiny was so gross i can´t share it here.

but it made me remember, a little, at least.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Ruach

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

There really isn't any which more or less forces you (unless you aren't concerned with the truth of a given matter) to research the "whistle blower" or "witness" as throughly as possible in an attempt to assess their veracity. In doing so you'll get a good indication I think, of just how probable any story they might tell would be.

Good luck.

[theseeker64]

I for one search for the truth from an inner source. If something rings true for me than that is my truth. The whistle blowers are bringing forth their own truth from their own experiences. Take what you like and leave the rest. I like to keep an open mind. I don't believe everything that is presented. I do really appreciate Kerry and Bill's summaries because they help me connect the dot's.

[tintagelcave]

Hallo Ruach, I can imagine your bewilderment and wondering about evidence of what's being presented on Project Camelot. My suggestion is, to treat this intake of information similar as to digesting food. Many aspects of this kind of information needs to be processed by your whole being, not only the mind. I don't mean to say that you have to accept all this as truth, there's as many interpretations of truth as there are facets on a crystal. By looking for different sources, like the James Wingmaker material, the writings of Zacharia Sitchin, Barbara Hand Clow, The Law of One, which is published on David Wilcocks website, the Flower of Life material, Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Maurice Bucke 1901, to name a few, you will be able to discern for yourself. And time will learn. The first moment in my life when I was confronted with the realisation that things were not as I believed they were, I was bewildered and exited too, as you are now I believe. This goes for every human being that is awakening. First there's unbelief and fear, than anger, than action by taking responsibility for yourself as an awakened You. So, go easy on yourself and eat 1 spoonful at a time. Blessed be, Marian.

[Bilko]

Good question Rauch and a totally valid and well expressed one i thought.
I have often asked myself the same thing. There are many methods of obtaining a truth that sits well with you, some good ones are mentioned here.
Research if you know how and have the resources ( i don't ), use your gut feeling/heart/intuition. A good point was made here about different sources sending the same messages. This has been happening a lot to me lately, pieces of the jigsaw finally coming together.
I don't think there is such a thing as 'A' definitive proof though. My truth or validation requirements might be more or less than yours. I think the truth is a place we settle on alone.

You ( your higher self ) allegedly already knows the truth. The soul speaks to us using the vehicle of experience and feelings as words are the most misinterpreted form of communication. So, if something feels right to you then it often is right or true.

[orthodoxymoron]

Could we all agree that remaining detached and constructively critical is a good thing? The ability to ask the right questions in the right way...may be more important than any conclusions reached. I do voluminous questioning and speculating on this site...some of which makes me very uncomfortable. The proper process of evaluation and decision making...may be the most important lesson we can learn from our participation in a controversial site such as this. I call this 'Thought Triage'. Unfortunately...I'm not very good at it yet. I'm too emotional and insecure.

Namaste

[Agape]

That's it. Some come here with their own living evidence I believe and they too keep asking questions. Some may have answers to one or two important questions your inner self-evolution needs to know, right now.
Seek the answers in the sky, in thy self, all around, maybe on forums as well as they too are part of the whole,
quite a unique international gathering without bounderies.
We take our freedoms here for inborn and granted but this is not what is happening in the world around.
We learn what to do with newly acquired knowledge.

Why do we only need to speak about it..

I'm sometimes more curious about those whose interests in anything seem to be so cut n dry, cool and impersonal, smooth like a snake that passes through everything untouched, they hardly can teach us anything,
they are just collectors of a knowledge without knowing.
They still do exist, beware of them.

We speak of our inner quest yet do we know who is ever listening to us.
We touch the space but do we touch the ground..

Originally, there come people WITH proofs. Followed by army of those without proofs who also NEED to SEE it .

Hugs

Agape