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Old 10-21-2008, 06:03 PM   #51
ctophil
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Default Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

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Originally Posted by Orion Morris View Post
You make sense...

I kind of believe that what your referring to as Yahweh is a word that we use for the condenced center of energy... oneness.. god... love... any word will do....

I was also wondering if you believe in judgement...
like if I dont pray to god and I have premarital sex all the time am I going to hell?
Here is what I wrote in another thread about Hell:

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Originally Posted by ctophil View Post
Hi Peer,

Do you want to see Yahweh's mercy? Well, let me show you something. First of all, most people know that the wages of sin is death. I'm sure that you have heard of Hell before in mainstream Christianity. Hell in Hebrew is called Sheol. Sheol means "The Grave." Hell is simply a place to dump dead bodies until when? The first or second resurrection. Hell is NOT and I repeat NOT a place of eternal torment. There's no such thing as a place of eternal torment. There is a place of eternal death. But that's a different issue. That's not what the Bible teaches. The Hell doctrine by Christians is a deceptive lie. Anyways, the point is that when you die, you are just completely dead (you are unconscious or sleeping) until He resurrects you. Then, you will be judged. You will be judged based on your works. Because you (just an example, I'm not saying just you) had little faith in Yahweh or no faith at all. He will give you another chance based on what you did.

To make a long story short, depending on the individual, Yahweh does give you another chance. But in finality, it is still up to you to choose. Remember one thing, He chooses you first before you choose Him. Just think about that for a minute. If He chose you, you were chosen because your future holds much obedience and love for Him.

-Phillip
As you read in my post above, yes there will be judgement. However, Yahweh is very merciful. Still, you must think about your life and see if judgement will be harsh, given a second chance, or will you be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is called eternal death. You will no longer exist. There is no eternal suffering, friend. But I love all human beings (and definitely Yahweh love all as well), and I want everyone to experience the Kingdom of Yahweh with me.

-Phillip
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:06 PM   #52
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You sound like a morman
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:11 PM   #53
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Default Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

True!
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:12 PM   #54
ctophil
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You sound like a morman
I have explained myself already about who I am. Mormonism is a false religion (just like all others) and a demonic cult. The Mormons may sound "nice" or whatever but they are just as bad as the Catholic Church, Islam, Christian denominations, Buddhism/Hinduism, Masons, and thousands of other false religions that can destroy you.

-Phillip
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:14 PM   #55
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Default Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

at one time I had embraced the idea of hell as spiritual death

total separation from God

as in poof, your soul has been repossessed due to non payment

no more incarnations for you

I now think that the spirit cannot die so hell has kinda lost it's meaning for me ecumenically speaking

I am fond the Alex Collier way of explaining how evil is rewarded too
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:38 PM   #56
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I also agree with your fine points comparing modern Christianity with paganism and I am in total agreement. I am curious if you follow a combination of the Mosaic law with the laws of Abraham then? Kinda reminds me of the "World Wide Church of God" beliefs but there are a few others out there that do this as well.
I follow all of the old and new testament. The Torah (first five books of Moses), which is the Mosiac laws you referred to, I follow it completely. Yahushua followed all of Yahweh's laws and commandments perfectly, including the Torah.

The Church of God and the Messianic Jews are close to following true doctrine. But they lack or add onto Yahweh's laws at certain points. You are not to add nor remove anything from the Word of Yahweh. So I consider them false as well, since they follow some of man's commandments. That reminds me, modern Judaism is also a false religion in case you guys are wondering.

-Phillip

Last edited by ctophil; 10-21-2008 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:57 PM   #57
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Default Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

a reminder; i started this thread to see peoples backrounds and discussion about why that might lead them to Ufology and this forum.

lets not have this tilt towards telling people the "true" way of anything. your beliefs are true for you and no one else, if i wanted to preach my beliefs i would have started a thread about "my" truth, but i didnt because i dont need to. as long as someone a good person i could care less what they believed.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:08 PM   #58
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[In response to Luigis Mushroom's comment that "the truth is within"... norman replied... "Who says? !"
Who says? Jesus says.

What modern christians don't highlight much is that Jesus made a lot of statements denouncing the false priesthood who had positioned themselves between the people and their 'God'. He called the pharisees and saducees "hypocrites", "blind leaders", "false prophets", "wolves in sheep's clothing" and "sons of the devil". He compared them to "whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones".

Jesus' true message was that the key to salvation (vibrational self- elevation) is NOT the outer religion. The true key to self knowledge is that we enter the 'kingdom of God' which is the christ-consciousness or spiritual- Self. That is why Jesus said:

"The 'kingdom of heaven' is within you"

And...

"Woe unto ye lawyers!
For you have taken away the key of (self) knowledge;
Ye entered not in yourselves, (into the inner kingdom)
and those who were entering in, ye hindered".


Also...

"He that is in you (the spiritual- Self)
Is greater than he that is in the world" (the lower-ego and those who embody it)


The "kingdom" is within you because it is a state of consciousness. Jesus had realised his inner oneness with all life so he was well qualified to teach his disciples about this 'state of consciousness' and to teach the multitude by using the "kingdom of heaven" parable:

"To the multitudes he spake not without a parable
but to his disciples, he expounded all things"


The inner-consciousness is the key that the 'lawyers' had taken away. Jesus fearlessly pointed that out to them and that is what got him killed. The false priesthood were terrified of losing their power over the people, who, if they could realise the inner-spirit as the source of truth, would not need the priesthood or any other external mediators.

Nothing has really changed in that regard as the fundamentalist christian churches have degenerated into an exact replica of that phony old system that the pharisees and saducees used to rule and enslave the people. And other suspicious facsimilies are springing up around it, ie the 'crystal skulls', alien saviors in UFOs etc etc...

If Jesus was in the grave he'd be rolling in it. But he's not. He is a spiritual adept (having self-realised the inner 'kingdom") and like others who've attained spiritual self-mastery he has transcended the cycle of karma and re-incarnation and ascended to his origin in spirit. The "shift" that everyone's talking about happens to individuals at different times as each overcomes the lower-ego and transcends the re-incarnational cyle.

Jesus said:

"Be of good cheer
I have overcome the world" (the worldly consciousness of the lower-ego in myself)


He is really saying:

If I can overcome the world (by self-realisation of the Christ)
then so can you (because the same Christ spirit is in you)

Last edited by milk and honey; 10-21-2008 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:18 PM   #59
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Sorry Clark i just saw your post above mine. I just thought it was important to properly represent Jesus' true message because so many people dismiss a distortion which is 180 degrees from the truth. Jesus is saying basically what you're saying in many of your posts.
Christians have misunderstood him -- and misunderstand you no doubt -- and that is no accident.

Last edited by milk and honey; 10-21-2008 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:31 PM   #60
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there is only one Elohim
Now that made my day! Pretty funny, considering that the -im in Elohim signifies plural.

Actually the old testament is full of plurals for the word "God," but christian translations of the bible "corrected" that so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible.

Secondly, the so called "God" of old testament is nothing but a sadistic, selfish, arrogant and vain warmonger. The whole thing is about discrimination, slavery and massacre. Chosen people, my ass. That god breaks all of his own commandments. He reminds me a lot of the NWO.

And my third point, that's also quite hilarious - yes, there is only one god, however, these Elohim look a lot more like a bunch of aliens who love making humans their slaves. Nothing in common with the one God.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:39 PM   #61
ctophil
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Now that made my day! Pretty funny, considering that the -im in Elohim signifies plural.

Actually the old testament is full of plurals for the word "God," but christian translations of the bible "corrected" that so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible.

Secondly, the so called "God" of old testament is nothing but a sadistic, selfish, arrogant and vain warmonger. The whole thing is about discrimination, slavery and massacre. Chosen people, my ass. That god breaks all of his own commandments. He reminds me a lot of the NWO.

And my third point, that's also quite hilarious - yes, there is only one god, however, these Elohim look a lot more like a bunch of aliens who love making humans their slaves. Nothing in common with the one God.
That's because when I talk about Elohim, I'm talking about the entire family of Yahweh. Father Yahweh, Yahushua, and all of True Israel are One. Just like when Yahushua said "The Father and I are One." If you just want to talk about Yahweh Himself, then you can use Eloah. But He likes to look at Himself as a family and not single Himself out. You will only understand this if you have a true relationship with Him.

-Phillip

Last edited by ctophil; 10-21-2008 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #62
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First of all, Yahweh is His true name.
What's with all this dwelling on god's names? Why would you need a name for a god when there's only one? If there were a bunch of gods then you need to name them, but if there's just one, then I don't care if you call him Yahweh or Jack.

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I follow all of the old and new testament. The Torah (first five books of Moses), which is the Mosiac laws you referred to, I follow it completely.
Now that's scary. Like I said, discrimination, slavery and massacre.

Quote:
If you are a follower of darkness, you are doing evil.
OK, since you said that, could you, please, define "darkness"? Cause I hope you don't mean that thing outside at night. Then what is it?
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #63
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holy s**t man!

ctophil you make alot of sense and I agree with your arguements

I love humanity and god and I try to do the right thing whenever I can

However, how could a god made of pure goodness and love be judgemental... isnt that a sin? You are very fanatical...
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:07 PM   #64
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That's because when I talk about Elohim, I'm talking about the entire family of Yahweh. Father Yahweh, Yahushua, and all of True Israel are One.
The word Elohim is in the first sentence of old testament "Bere**** bara Elohim..." so what family? There was supposed to be only god at that point. Why a plural for god at the very beginning of creation?
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:07 PM   #65
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holy s**t man!

ctophil you make alot of sense and I agree with your arguements

I love humanity and god and I try to do the right thing whenever I can

However, how could a god made of pure goodness and love be judgemental... isnt that a sin? You are very fanatical...
Yahweh wants us to follow His laws and commandments. Why? Because without His laws, we are just going to destroy each other and ultimately the whole world. Do you realize what's going on in this world right now? If you are righteous (meaning you follow all His laws and have total faith in Him), then you are allowed to judge...but only righteous judgement (judging based on His laws and not laws of mankind). Yahweh is very forgiving, loving, and most important of all, His ways are higher than your ways (that means what He does you may not like, but eventually it will be good for you and others in the long term). Anything outside of His laws and statutes, you are judging others unrighteously and may lead to corruption, revenge, and other means of evil. So there are things you won't understand unless He explains it to you if required.


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What's with all this dwelling on god's names? Why would you need a name for a god when there's only one? If there were a bunch of gods then you need to name them, but if there's just one, then I don't care if you call him Yahweh or Jack.



Now that's scary. Like I said, discrimination, slavery and massacre.



OK, since you said that, could you, please, define "darkness"? Cause I hope you don't mean that thing outside at night. Then what is it?
Yahweh's name was mentioned in the scriptures almost 7,000 times. That makes His name more important than anyone can conceive. His name is Salvation, Goodness, Glorious, Holy, and Righteous. Need I say more?

I have explained to everybody the ways of Yahweh throughout this thread. Please read the "evil" post again until you understand what darkness means. I explained with a lot of metaphors in that post. You must think outside of the box to understand. Darkness is a metaphor, don't think too literally. The Bible is full of metaphors; so this is nothing new.

-Phillip
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:14 PM   #66
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You should look at Norvals post about the bible is about et's...

Do you not agree that it is kind of strange that all of our sacred texts say that god came from the sky....

Plus their are actually books that were excluded from the bible that explain god coming down in space ships...

Of course the bible is full of metaphors... It is one big giant metaphor...

Explain how is it that one person is born into a situation where they have no chance of ever coming in contact with gods rules is supposed to follow them...

You still have not answered undetected's question about the scriptues dealing with slavery and massacre.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:19 PM   #67
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actually norvals thread is called

The Bible, Its about disclosure, not religion...

I suggest you check it out
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:19 PM   #68
ctophil
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The word Elohim is in the first sentence of old testament "Bere**** bara Elohim..." so what family? There was supposed to be only god at that point. Why a plural for god at the very beginning of creation?
You are correct about the Hebrew in Genesis. The host of Angels were already around during the times of Genesis. Remember that the Angels are also part of the family. Angels are brethen as mentioned in scripture. They are created beings just like us. However at this point, they are temporarily superior in righteousness than mankind because they already made it to the Family of Israel. Also, there are others in the family of Israel (Israel simply means to "overcome" or "strive" to the very end in the name of El Shaddai. So people of Israel are simply "Overcomers" of darkness or evil), such as the Elders, the "odd" beasts around the throne of Yahweh, pre-mankind beings who eventually became "demons" today. Yes, if you study all of the Bible, there were beings on Earth before humans. But some of these "demons" betrayed Yahweh and got banished from the Kingdom. Fallen Angels and Demons are not the same thing.

-Phillip
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:27 PM   #69
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You should look at Norvals post about the bible is about et's...

Do you not agree that it is kind of strange that all of our sacred texts say that god came from the sky....

Plus their are actually books that were excluded from the bible that explain god coming down in space ships...

Of course the bible is full of metaphors... It is one big giant metaphor...

Explain how is it that one person is born into a situation where they have no chance of ever coming in contact with gods rules is supposed to follow them...

You still have not answered undetected's question about the scriptues dealing with slavery and massacre.
I did answer it in a different thread:

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What's the point of a "spirituality" section of a forum if you can't preach and witness? Part of being spiritual is showing your love and compassion for others; so you must share what others need to know about your faith. You see, if you love Yahweh (once again, this is his true name...YHWH, ancient Hebrew didn't have vowels) the way you say you do, then His love will show to everybody that you are a son or daughter of the Most High. You can't hide it. It's almost impossible. So others WILL see Yahweh's love projecting outwards for everybody to see, hear, and experience. That is true spirituality.

By the way, Jehovah is incorrect. If you want to spell EXACTLY the way you should pronounce His name via Hebrew, it is "Yahuwah." The letter "J" was only added to the English language later on. There is no way there would be a "J" sound in His name. Anyways, He did destroy the whole world before via the times of Noah, except for Noah and His family (total of 8 people). Was that "evil?" No. Why? Why does killing almost everybody not "evil?" Remember that Yahweh is a righteous Elohim (means the mighty one). Not only is He perfectly righteous, He is holy, pure, and the ultimate form of goodness. People by nature, ever since the first sin entered mankind from Adam and Eve, are evil and rebellious. We like to do our own thing, create our own religion, and hate it when others tell us what to do. Isn't that right? But when we follow our own heart, we are going to do evil things. Like lie, steal, have sex with multiple partners, kill others, selfish, enjoy making others suffer, seek revenge, unrighteous hatred, create destructive factions, greedy to no end, extreme anger, lust after everything, and the list just doesn't stop!

Now how can Yahweh ever live with people like that? Folks, I CAN'T even live with people like that!!! His goal is to live with us forever and forever. That's why He created us. To create a beautiful, glorious family of humans to co-exist with Him. He gave us the freedom to choose. But most of us ultimately chose our own ways. And guess what? Our own ways begat a world of corruption, death, and destruction. That is the world we are living in today. So, Yahweh had to destroy people time and time again to...guess what? Start over. But everybody, this is it...this is the final generation of people who will experience His final plan to create a lovable family. You will all see His plan evolve before your very eyes into the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN here on Earth. You will all see it coming to pass in a few short years.

Next, I would like to say that if you are a "true witness" of the Kingdom of Yahweh. Then, you must be loving Him with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. If you do not, then neither are you a true witness nor a son/daughter of Yahweh. Yes, I've seen dreams and visions (Prophecy for me to understand what's going to happen, not for others). Yes, Yahweh has spoken to me with His own voice (spiritual manifestation) through dreams. I'm a dreamer similar to Joseph in the scriptures. Yes, Yahweh has spoken to me through my heart as a voice of His Spirit. Yes, He has performed miracles beyond people's imaginations in my life. But all those things only mean that I love Him with everything I have. And He loves me more than I do. Because He loved me before I even knew Him.

Take care and blessings to everybody who seek my Father, which is in Heaven.

-Phillip
As for slavery part, if Yahweh gave us total freedom to choose our ways if we wanted to, why is it slavery? The only slavery is when you follow this world and believe in a false political, monetary, religious system you're living in today.

-Phillip
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:28 PM   #70
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. . . . so you wouldn't know if you don't do research. And of course christians are forbidden from doing research in any other source than the bible. . . . .

As I am partly responsible for the directional drift of this thread, I'd like get back to Ck's original post. The selection above could be repeated for ANY religious believers.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:54 PM   #71
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Yahweh's name was mentioned in the scriptures almost 7,000 times. That makes His name more important than anyone can conceive.
That's utter garbage and has zero percent of logic in it. George Bush also mentioned "war on terror" about 7,000 times. Just because I say something many times, doesn't make it important. Not talking about the fact that there were people living BEFORE the bible was written and they were doing fine without knowing god's first name.

Quote:
Please read the "evil" post again until you understand what darkness means. I explained with a lot of metaphors in that post.
Well I was curious about your definition of evil. You explained evil as following of darkness, so I asked what you mean by darkness, and you point me back to evil. Anyway, doesn't matter, I've had too many talks with bible freaks in my life and it leads nowhere else than to destruction of any logic.

Quote:
Our own ways begat a world of corruption, death, and destruction. That is the world we are living in today. So, Yahweh had to destroy people time and time again to...guess what? Start over
He "had to destroy"? Who told him so? He creates something, lets it act on its own, it doesn't work out the way he'd like it, so he slaughters everyone. You have a free will but if you don't do what I tell you, I kill you. How is that a free will? JHVH is a terrorist.

OK, I'm out of here.

Note to self: Don't click on threads about christianity!
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #72
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Nice post milk and honey.
I was also a raised catholic, with many christian friends.

People with agendas about religion are not aware that they themselves are propagating their religion by posting about it. This is ok. They have the free will to do so.

The forum allows much of this. The law of allowance gives them the ability to get there message out there.

So Thats why so many are posting about their religion. But if you notice there are many posts in their threads but few individuals.

Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge View Post
.

Those of us that believe that the Christ energy was a descending energy who set out to show us how to believe in ourselves, do not feel insulted by those who post about religion.

We cannot change the minds of those who are not ready to throw away all beliefs in everything but their own truth. Their own reality.
for the record im not insulted by religious posts or threads im just noticing a lot of them, and certainly theyre 99% christian and not others.

this thread was more or less a "lets see a show of hands, who's a christian" and then maybe a brief summary why they went from those beliefs to incorporating aliens and whatnot into it.

i didnt set out for a religious debate because it will go on and on endlessly. everybody has interpreted christianity a bazillion different ways and will continue to do so.

christianity has managed to incorporate every new scientific discovery and im sure aliens is just another example of that. i think its interesting- personally all of "jesus's" (or whomever you want to call him you can debate if he actually existed as a person , certainly theres evidence he didnt)
but whatver the case the messages attributed to the man are good so i have no problem with that.

christianity in particular has an "end times" scenario with a great battle between good and evil/light and dark and a lot of people are taking whats coming as an example of that and aliens/reptillians/dark entities and their "agenda" fit right into that (this is my summation and observation)

i think the more interesting question is whether "civilzations" with organized religions and a hierarchical ruling order is a biologically inferior way of life compared to nomadic hunter gatherer tribes. certainly if atlantis and lemuria with their oh so advanced technology/spirituality wiped themselves out and we went back to tribal living and then now we wipe ourselves out with the exception of isolated tribes. we existed that way for hundreds of thousands of years before jesus, mohamed , buddha showed up.

personally i like the phrase "god helps those who help themselves" and everything that implies.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:16 AM   #74
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Yah. The church has had kind of a "go with the flow" policy as of late.

Maybe they see that they don't have control over the masses like they used to.

But being as how most of the world is still christian, I could be wrong.

IMO, they will do whatever they can to incorporate information about such things, so they don't look wrong.

So people don't ask questions. So people can say "see, I told it was in the bible already."
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:31 AM   #75
Frank Samuel
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: i live in puerto rico
Posts: 643
Talking Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark

For you Clark one of my best friends born in Manchester England a funny little english guy wanted to follow the footsteps of Guatama Buddha, he travel to India and walk town to town barefoot with a back pack, few funds and a heart the sized of mount everest, he said he wanted to understand the heart of the Buddha. His story stuck with me, although I have never been to India or Tibet I have many friends there. I have travel but have not made it there yet. I study buddhism from my friend the English wacko. By the way he was white. Belief for the most part is regional, America the melting pot we have every religion under the sun. You know what I think is funny and positive, a white looking person attending the Black muslim mosque in Harlem. Is all in the mind how we perceive ourselves, and I guess the same can be said about religion.
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