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Old 06-05-2009, 10:01 PM   #76
Unified Serenity
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Quote:
Originally Posted by waitinginthewings View Post
Investigators are now saying that the pieces of the debris they found are not from Flight 447................................"On Thursday night, Brazil's military announced that despite earlier reports to the contrary, pieces of debris pulled out of the ocean Thursday were not from the missing plane. Brazil authorities still believe they have located parts of the plane -- including a 23-foot chunk of plane, an airline seat and several large brown and yellow pieces that likely came from inside the plane, military officials said -- but they have not pulled them out of the ocean."..................

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Interna...7762916&page=1

Ah....the plot thickens
sits in the back of the news conference, *coughbull****coughcough*
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:59 PM   #77
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

To the agents working the PC & PA Sites..... And, this thread....

How many hours of flight; DO YOU HAVE as PIC...

Have You flown the route that You are spinning yor yarn...?

Such a weapon shows No Light or shaft of light... No Fire...

'The Target will turn to dust...' So, you people are informed...

A " Black Box " is really Brite, Brite Orange, further has a beacon
sending a signal which would last a long time... FYI, I waited

to post this info. To see how far the B.S. would go...

NTSB people already know this... Aviators know this...

40,000 Ft., that's over storm tops... Other Aircraft reports

would be nice, if truthful... Becareful what you listen to...




Trooly,


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Old 06-05-2009, 11:16 PM   #78
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

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How do they know the plane went down.....the article I read said 228 people on board including pilots, 7 children, and 1 baby.
Now we got solar flares on 822
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:02 AM   #79
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Search for Air France Flight 447 Reveals Astonishing Pollution of World's Oceans
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor

(NaturalNews) The most alarming piece of news this week emerged when investigators of the doomed Air France flight 447 announced they had found "floating debris" from the plane crash, but it turned out to be only floating trash in the ocean. This is, all by itself, a disturbing commentary on the pollution of the world's oceans: When investigators can't find a plane crash in the ocean because there's already too much trash floating on the surface, we have a problem with pollution.

It's as if they went out to find a plane crash, but ended up discovering that our oceans look like a train wreck. Had they peeked under the surface of the water, they might have found untreated dry cleaning chemicals from a cruise ship, raw feces from a military vessel and tiny bits of plastic that pose an extreme risk to marine life.

With this, air travel investigators learned an important lesson: Just because debris is floating in the ocean doesn't mean a plane crashed there. It could just mean humans are destroying the planet. While 228 passengers sadly died in a tragic air travel accident, we might all die if we don't stop polluting our fragile ecosystems with endless trash.

(If investigators followed the line of debris, of course, it would lead them straight to the nearest port where ocean liners and military ships would be found several thousand pounds lighter due to all the garbage and sewage they dumped in the ocean before anchoring. The U.S. military, in particular, treats the world's oceans like a giant toilet, dumping trash, sewage and dangerous chemicals directly into the waters.)

What's really crashing is much bigger than one plane
Getting back to flight 447, investigators first announced they had "without a doubt" found wreckage from the flight. And what, exactly, had they spotted? A wooden pallet!

Did they think flight 447 was a Wright Brothers airplane? Who spots an intact wooden pallet and concludes they're looking at the wreckage of a modern-day airplane? Did they really think an entire plane (made out of metal) was destroyed, but a fragile wooden pallet somehow emerged from the crash unscathed?

An oil slick was also spotted near the area where the plane went missing, and investigators initially thought that was from the downed Air France flight. But it turns out it was just another random petrochemical slick from a passing ship that dumps toxic liquids into the ocean. Nothing to see here, move along... move along.

Several French submarines are apparently en route to the suspected crash site, where they hope to explore the depths of the ocean floor, looking for clues. While they might not find clues, I can tell you a few things they will find: Old decomposing Coca-Cola cans swaying with the current along the ocean floor, plastic bottle caps bobbing in the water, and ghost town dead zones where there used to be thriving marine ecosystems. This, of course, will be of no interest to them, because these investigators are out to determine what happened to 228 people, not to investigate a crash in marine biodiversity.

Yes, it's important to know what happened to flight 447. The world wants to know whether it was bombed, or shot down, or destroyed by lightning. But while we're looking around the oceans, didn't anybody happen to notice all the floating trash there? And why isn't the mainstream media wondering why our oceans are now so polluted that investigators can't sort out plane crash debris from all the other junk floating on the ocean?

The big story here, folks, is not the crash of flight 447. The real story is the presence of so much trash floating in the ocean that it confuses investigators. And if this pollution continues, future plane crashes may be utterly indistinguishable from all the garbage out there already.

I can see the future headlines already: "Air Passengers Saved by Emergency Landing on Island of Debris in the South Pacific."

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Old 06-06-2009, 08:56 AM   #80
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Hi judykott,

Part of your post is inaccurate.

Although it is true that the oceans are dirty, we can understand how this happens, we need only to look in the streets and see people throw litter. Mindless morons. People like this are all over the world, even going up Mount Everest!

But getting back to the Air France disappearance. The only debris brought on board of a Brazilian Navy vessel was done so on Thursday, found 200km north of Fernando de Noronha and it is this debris, which was thought to be from the aircraft but confirmed not, which they are talking about.

The other debris (passenger seat, buoy and seven meter piece of debris) which was spotted on the Tuesday 620km northeast of Fernando de Noronha has still to be brought aboard for inspection. of course if this is found also not to be from the aeroplane, we can only come to two conclusions. The plane really disappeared and the state of the oceans is getting worse, sufficiently to lead the Brazilian Navy on a wild goose chase.

But with all said and done I think it was interesting that the reporter looked at the story from another angle.

Best regards,

Steve




Quote:
Originally Posted by judykott View Post
Search for Air France Flight 447 Reveals Astonishing Pollution of World's Oceans
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor

(NaturalNews) The most alarming piece of news this week emerged when investigators of the doomed Air France flight 447 announced they had found "floating debris" from the plane crash, but it turned out to be only floating trash in the ocean. This is, all by itself, a disturbing commentary on the pollution of the world's oceans: When investigators can't find a plane crash in the ocean because there's already too much trash floating on the surface, we have a problem with pollution.

It's as if they went out to find a plane crash, but ended up discovering that our oceans look like a train wreck. Had they peeked under the surface of the water, they might have found untreated dry cleaning chemicals from a cruise ship, raw feces from a military vessel and tiny bits of plastic that pose an extreme risk to marine life.

With this, air travel investigators learned an important lesson: Just because debris is floating in the ocean doesn't mean a plane crashed there. It could just mean humans are destroying the planet. While 228 passengers sadly died in a tragic air travel accident, we might all die if we don't stop polluting our fragile ecosystems with endless trash.

(If investigators followed the line of debris, of course, it would lead them straight to the nearest port where ocean liners and military ships would be found several thousand pounds lighter due to all the garbage and sewage they dumped in the ocean before anchoring. The U.S. military, in particular, treats the world's oceans like a giant toilet, dumping trash, sewage and dangerous chemicals directly into the waters.)

What's really crashing is much bigger than one plane
Getting back to flight 447, investigators first announced they had "without a doubt" found wreckage from the flight. And what, exactly, had they spotted? A wooden pallet!

Did they think flight 447 was a Wright Brothers airplane? Who spots an intact wooden pallet and concludes they're looking at the wreckage of a modern-day airplane? Did they really think an entire plane (made out of metal) was destroyed, but a fragile wooden pallet somehow emerged from the crash unscathed?

An oil slick was also spotted near the area where the plane went missing, and investigators initially thought that was from the downed Air France flight. But it turns out it was just another random petrochemical slick from a passing ship that dumps toxic liquids into the ocean. Nothing to see here, move along... move along.

Several French submarines are apparently en route to the suspected crash site, where they hope to explore the depths of the ocean floor, looking for clues. While they might not find clues, I can tell you a few things they will find: Old decomposing Coca-Cola cans swaying with the current along the ocean floor, plastic bottle caps bobbing in the water, and ghost town dead zones where there used to be thriving marine ecosystems. This, of course, will be of no interest to them, because these investigators are out to determine what happened to 228 people, not to investigate a crash in marine biodiversity.

Yes, it's important to know what happened to flight 447. The world wants to know whether it was bombed, or shot down, or destroyed by lightning. But while we're looking around the oceans, didn't anybody happen to notice all the floating trash there? And why isn't the mainstream media wondering why our oceans are now so polluted that investigators can't sort out plane crash debris from all the other junk floating on the ocean?

The big story here, folks, is not the crash of flight 447. The real story is the presence of so much trash floating in the ocean that it confuses investigators. And if this pollution continues, future plane crashes may be utterly indistinguishable from all the garbage out there already.

I can see the future headlines already: "Air Passengers Saved by Emergency Landing on Island of Debris in the South Pacific."

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Old 06-06-2009, 05:43 PM   #81
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Bodies "found" from missing airplane:

Two bodies and debris have been found from the Air France plane which went missing over the Atlantic last Monday, the Brazilian air force has said.
The remains were taken from the water early on Saturday morning, said spokesman Jorge Amaral.
Experts on human remains are on their way to examine the find.
All 228 passengers and crew on board AF 447 are believed to have been killed when the plane disappeared during its flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8087303.stm

Kindness
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:08 PM   #82
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For French air accident investigators, trying to extract meaning from the shreds of information about the last minutes of Flight AF 447 must be excruciating.
They have neither the flight data recorder nor the cockpit voice recorder. Both are thousands of metres below the surface of the Atlantic.
Instead they have a series of messages sent out over a satellite network called ACARS.
The ACARS messages themselves have not been released but an unverified list has been leaked. The BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy.
...
What is clear is that the crew, who should have been able to see some of these warnings on their cockpit displays, would have been assailed by demands for action from the aircraft's systems.
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8086111.stm

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Old 06-06-2009, 06:08 PM   #83
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Ian & Tango...found this in my inbox this morning...maybe the dead fish are starting to stink enough to make some heads turn...

I know what happened to the Air France Flight 447

by Dick Eastman

According to Air France CEO Pierre-Henry Gourgeon, the Air France AirBus flying from Rio to Paris transmitted "a succession of a dozen technical messages" indicated that "several electrical systems had broken down'' which caused a "totally unprecedented situation in the plane.''

Gourgeon is wrong. The events that resulted in the death of 128 people over the Atlantic were precedented. There have been several similar events.

Reuters has reported that AirBus is claiming that the Airbus A330 has a good safety record, with no fatal accidents on a commercial flight. This is a falsehood that Reuters did not bother to correct.

In Miami in 1999 pilot and co-pilot of an American Airlines Airbus A300 about to land suddenly lost control of the plane to an exogenous agency. The rudder moved several times on its own. "The rudder movements were extreme" said the NTSP.

On November 12, 2001 American Airlines flight 587, an Airbus A300, lost control to a remote agency resulting in the rudder suddenly swinging back and forth violently, beyond the normal range that can be effected from the cockpit. The flight data showed "unusual sideways movements that slammed passengers back and forth," repeated banging which caused tremendous strain of the vertical stabilizer until it broke off, despite the strengh of the lamination construction. The passengers were slamed back and forth prior to the crash in Queens, New York. But that was not all. After the rudder was gone the remote controller began playing with other equipment. With the rudder gone the rudder could still fly, however no the ailerons and elevators (the "flaps") began moving in fatal ways. At one point was made to turn 10 degrees in just one second, and 180 degree turn in 18 seconds. The plane banked left, even though data shows pilots were working controls to move in the opposite direction." The black box contained pilot and co-pilot and tower dialog on this but it was never released. (Marion Blakey, head of the NTSB, a Bush political appointee with no experience for th job, who was also heading NTSP a month before when the WTC was hit by two planes, the crash in Pennsylvania and the alleged crash of a jetliner at the Pentagon.) After these turns the remote controller put the plane into a nose dive and cut off the voice recorder, both the plane's regular power and batteries. The plane was brought to full throttle and then the flaps were brought down, causing the engine pods to rip off their brackets and keep going as the plane slowed down. The N.T.S.B. offered only two possible explanations, either "the pilot made the rudder move intentionally or by accident" or the plane was brought down by "butterfly effect" turbulence from a Japan Airlines plane that had taken off ahead of the AirBus.

Now perhaps we can begin to suspect that there was someone on that Air France Flight that the people who benefited from the remote-control crash of the 9-11 planes and the 11/12/01 plane did not like.

By the way, Dov Zakheim is the man I think is responsible for the 9-11 crashes and one more crash which occured on the early morning of October 31, 1999.

That Halloween morning EgyptAir 990, a Boeing 767 took off from JFK for Cairo, Egypt. The plane had aboard 22 top Egyptian military that had just received special training in the United States -- lured into this trap by the bait of the unusual sharing of military information. At about 2:00 a.m., from the vocie recorder, the Egyptian pilot excuses himself to go to the toilet. The pilot and co-pilot are Egyptian and they speak Arabic. But suddenly there is heard on the voice recording, in English, the words, "Control it." Then the plane deviates from course on its own while still on automatic pilot. The pilot responds to this event with an exclaimatory prayer: "Taw ak kalt ala Allah," roughly equivalent to "Heaven help us!" "May God protect us!" if not "Jesus Christ!" The co-pilot attempts to disengage autopilot, but the remote controller will not yield. The co-pilot is in a panic and again praying for help. The plane, still on auto-pilot goes into a nose dive. After 16 seconds of remote-controlled hijacking the pilot re-enters the cockpit and asks the co-pilot what is happening. Both work to pull up and as they are both trying the plane goes full throttle. The co-pilot cuts the fuel lines. Then, again under remote control the right and left elevators move in opposite directions. Ailerons on both wings move full up. The pilot orders, in Arabic, "shut engines." The co-pilot replies: "They're shut!" The last words heard are those of the pilot calling out, of course still in Arabic, "Pull! Pull!" Then, exactly as happened with Flight 587 over Queens, the voice recorders are remotely shut off -- before the crash event. The US NTSB reached the conclusion -- against all of this evidence -- that the co-pilot was somehow responsible.

Some passenger in Miami in 1999 needed to be fightened by a demonstration of power. Someone aboard Flight 587 was a problem for the criminal conspiracy now in control of the US and Israeli governments. And someone on the Air France flight was equally a threat or target of vengence for the same interests.

You will notice the lame excuses why the Air France black boxes cannnot be recovered.

9-11 was not the work of "Islamic Fundamentalists" who "hate our freedoms" and therefore hijacked four jetliners on September 11 and and crashbombed the WTC towers and the Pentagon. No one can argue the REAL evidence proving this. (They can and do of course argue, for example on Fox News, with people who have impossible theories about no planes at all hitting the WTC or absurd tales about energy beam weapons in orbit bringing down the twin towers and Building 7 -- but that is part of the pre-planned disinformation obstruction of justice psy-op the perpetrators are using.

I suspect the target of the crash was French and an opponent of the Sarkozy, the very close supporter of the agendas of both the Bush and Obama presidencies in international financial matters and middle east and war on terror policies.

The victims of this murder were from 32 countries. 61 were French, 58 were Brazilian and 26 were Germans. No Israelis were aboard or American Jews were aboard. Sarkozy's French Environment Minister, Jean-Louis Borloo, has declared officially that hijacking has been ruled out. How in the name of Allah could they possible have done that in the light of the facts I have relayed to you which are certainly known to them?

One more point: The international killers crashed the Air France plane in part because they were secure in the knowledge that the Sarkozy government, like the Bush government in 2001, would do all that was necessary to keep the truth from being told. The black boxes will never be produced -- I haven't been following the news for since the day of the crash, but I feel that is a safe prediction.

Please post this, read it aloud over the phone, put it up on your blog. It is up to them to embarrass and shame the French into investigating this act of mass-murder.

Death by airplane has been the preferred method of eliminating individuals without drawing suspicion to the specific background and connections of an "isolated victim." We can't let them continue to get away with it.

Dick Eastman
Yakima, Washington
Every man is responsible to every other man.
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:38 PM   #84
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This story just wreaks. Maybe it's now my nature to distrust disasters now, but it's amazing how there are all these catastrophic failures, no debris really, and now we have 2 bodies, poor souls. I do lift them up and their families. We have subs that can retrieve the "black" boxes so let them get around that. Oh, and watch them not release the data either.

It smells I tell ya!
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unified Serenity View Post
This story just wreaks. Maybe it's now my nature to distrust disasters now, but it's amazing how there are all these catastrophic failures, no debris really, and now we have 2 bodies, poor souls. I do lift them up and their families. We have subs that can retrieve the "black" boxes so let them get around that. Oh, and watch them not release the data either.

It smells I tell ya!
totally agree. I don't know how valid this is, & I havent done any background research on the other incidents he mentioned, but ...it would not surprise me at all.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:05 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymatic Veilbegone View Post
totally agree. I don't know how valid this is, & I havent done any background research on the other incidents he mentioned, but ...it would not surprise me at all.
*
He is Right abt 587 the rudder was slammed full L & R; it was said by
witnesses before it went flying off... Tail wagging...

Time to get rid of the 'flight managment 'puters w/remote.....'

They take control VIA remote systems... The actual A/C controls become
useless... 187 by remote... Do they have " voice recordings of pilots...?"
I never liked 'fly by wire' was always concerned about this...
Just think, som cold hearted SOB sat @ a terminal and did this. Very Sad.


I'll keep my cool... [locked, loaded, cocked, Ready to Rock N' Roll]...
back to wearing the vest; I really hate wearing the damn thing...

So much for travel... So much for aviation... All, for the greed of a few.

Sadly, this feels all too TRUE. [looking down; shaking head]


Tango
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:00 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
*
He is Right abt 587 the rudder was slammed full L & R; it was said by
witnesses before it went flying off... Tail wagging...

Time to get rid of the 'flight managment 'puters w/remote.....'

They take control VIA remote systems... The actual A/C controls become
useless... 187 by remote... Do they have " voice recordings of pilots...?"
I never liked 'fly by wire' was always concerned about this...
Just think, som cold hearted SOB sat @ a terminal and did this. Very Sad.


I'll keep my cool... [locked, loaded, cocked, Ready to Rock N' Roll]...
back to wearing the vest; I really hate wearing the damn thing...

So much for travel... So much for aviation... All, for the greed of a few.

Sadly, this feels all too TRUE. [looking down; shaking head]


Tango
Very interesting, Tango.

But how do they get control via remote system ? I guess these A/C controls must be designed to have some backdoors hardware (chip)/software so that can be easily controlled remotely.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:31 AM   #88
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It was a "remote controlled" death....


Interesting article attached from the excellent fourwinds10 website, which suggests, as in the past, that the airbus was "remotely controlled" to crash, as has happened in the past, as the airbus is perfect for remote control as it is fully computer controlled. Only question is, who did they want dead so much that they killed 227 others? I guess its best to stick to Boeing aircraft.....

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_d...p?q=1244235892

you cover your tracks by directing the craft into the "anvil" of the ITCZ (the inter tropical convergence zone - glad you don't fly through that zone!), so everyone thinks it broke up through turbulence rather than the "remote controller", then crash the plane in a way whereby the black box can never be recovered...luckily the passengers would have likely had a peaceful death because break up would have caused immediate loss of consciousness and deep coma....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6446268.ece
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:33 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymatic Veilbegone View Post
\Air France Flight 447
did anyone notice

AF 447
1 6 4 4 7

1 6 4 = 4 7

11 = 11

or 22
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:58 AM   #90
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It was a "remote controlled" death....
Field McConnell and David Hawkins over at Hawks CAFE concur, and they link AF447 to the same crew that allegedly perpetrated 9/11! Here is an excerpt from their post, dated 3 Jun 09 to Jack Stockwell, host of the Jack Stockwell radio program:

Quote:
Hawks CAFE believes that Airbus partners hired Sidley Austin lawyers in the `80s to build a fly-by-wire murder-for-hire network allegedly operated under the AeroSat label on 9/11 by David Emerson on behalf of his client investors in the CAI-Carlyle Canada hedge fund...

"Ok, we all know Airbus aircraft are fly by wire .. since every control input the pilot makes is run through computers, what is the chance that someone could put a virus or viruses into the flight control programs and cause a crash. What if a terrorist deep in Airbuses manufacturing business put a virus in the program .. Is this possible?" .. ".. ACARS messages of system failures started to arrive [from AF447] at 02:10Z indicating, that the autopilot had disengaged and the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law [Emerson's Aerosat Airborne Internet?]" ".. each aircraft becomes node in a peer-to-peer network analogous to the terrestrial Internet .. AeroSat produces Ku-band antenna .. certified and in use on Boeing, Airbus, Gulfstream, Bombardier, Dassault and Cessna aircraft" .. "AeroSat .. $14 million in new funding, from CAI Managers & Co. and AeroEquity, and a new investor, Boston-based PAR Capital Management. The money will go into expanding AeroSat's product line and production capacity." "CAI Capital Management has hired David Emerson, who was appointed Canadian minister of foreign affairs in May and retired in September, as a senior advisor .. He worked as president and chief executive of the Vancouver International Airport Authority from 1992 to 1997 .. The firm's investors include limited partners from Canada and the US, including some of Canada's biggest pension funds. The firm, established in 1989, focuses on buyouts, restructurings and acquisitions [allegedly coordinated by Sidley Austin]"

Our Abel Danger investigators have evidence to suggest that Air France Flight 447 Airbus 330-203 was destroyed on May 31st by an Airborne Internet, allegedly developed in a joint venture by Sidley lawyers, David Emerson, former president of Vancouver International Airport Authority, Kristine Marcy former senior counsel of the U.S. Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation System, and Jane Garvey, the former head of the FAA and the former director of Boston's Logan International Airport, an `al-Qaeda' mustering station for the 9/11 attack...
Source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/message/909

The Investigators: http://hawkscafe.com/

Last edited by DiVineEnvy; 06-08-2009 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:17 AM   #91
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there seems to be a LOT of plane crashes lately.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:20 PM   #92
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One will think twice now before deciding to go by air....
you never know what intentions certain people might have towards the plane you are flying in...
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by burgundia View Post
One will think twice now before deciding to go by air....
you never know what intentions certain people might have towards the plane you are flying in...
This happened to me, I called off my reservation because of fear. I asked while ago how to overcome fear and I got some good answers, but let's face it if you want to visit some place, what would you do ?

1. Check the passenger list and the background of some "high" targets
2. Check plane model and type (fly-wire, no fly-wire, twin engines / four-engines)
3. Travel by other means (ship, astral )
4. Build your own anti-gravity aircraft
5. Wait for our "brothers and sisters" to give us a lift
6. Wait for John Lear and fly with his Cesena plane (actually he's broke )
7. 777 can give us a hint
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:21 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelg View Post
This happened to me, I called off my reservation because of fear. I asked while ago how to overcome fear and I got some good answers, but let's face it if you want to visit some place, what would you do ?

1. Check the passenger list and the background of some "high" targets
2. Check plane model and type (fly-wire, no fly-wire, twin engines / four-engines)
3. Travel by other means (ship, astral )
4. Build your own anti-gravity aircraft
5. Wait for our "brothers and sisters" to give us a lift
6. Wait for John Lear and fly with his Cesena plane (actually he's broke )
7. 777 can give us a hint
8. travel only to places which can be reached by car, bus, etc. ( This is how i am going to travel this summer). Anyway i have always been scared of flying....The funny thing is that at first I wasn't afraid of flying, and after some time, without any apparent reason, the fear began...
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:20 PM   #95
viking
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

This is weird.... What if??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iFm8xNeOY4

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Old 06-08-2009, 05:07 PM   #96
Steve_A
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Hi viking,

Let's not let our imagination run away with us. Eventually the black boxes will be found and everything will be revealed.

There are one or two points about the crash which to me don't really make sense.

Firstly the authorities exclude the possibility of a bomb, even though they admit the aeroplane broke up mid air, this being proven by the scattering of the debris. The thing is the authorities don't know what brought down the plane, so how can they rule out a bomb? If they know what it isn't, then they must know what it is. Right?

Secondly they speak about the 20 messages in four minutes prior to the plane going off the radar. They do not say that for a plane to hit the water, it would take at least two minutes to fall from the sky as we're talking high altitude here. Most of those messages could have been sent on the planes descent, switching off the automatic pilot could have been done by the pilot as the plane becomes out of control, faliure of this and that as it was going down and the cabin was eventually depressurized and invaded by the elements of -55C. The radar contact would have been lost on impact and anyway the flight was in 'no mans' land' where it leaves one radar juristinction (Brazil) to another (Senegal) so the flight really was lost when it didn't report to the second radar area so the actual oment of loss of contact is only an estimate.

They say that the pilot tried to fly the plane over or through a storm. There are radar devices in the plane which monitor where the storms are and it's normal for pilots, even the more experienced ones, to skirt round the 'eye' of the storm instead of trying to go directly through.

The good thing, if you like, is that more bodies and debris are turning up so the Brazilian navy together with the French sub can get a relatively better chance of finding the carcass of the plane and consequently the outstanding corpses and eventually the black boxes.

As for the NASA video taken before the crash happened, possibly days before as the cloud cover is sparse, it was raining heavily the night of the accident yet land forms can be seen from the satelite image. With that said and done it would be interesting to know what those images are on the video. It really is suprising that Google has a camera that can see a car on the ground. Imagine NASA. When will it learn to take sharp pictures?

Also I'm not too keen on dramatic music to try and make a sinister point. It just doesn't wash with me.

Best regards,

Steve


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Originally Posted by viking View Post
This is weird.... What if??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iFm8xNeOY4

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Old 06-08-2009, 07:17 PM   #97
Avid
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

http://www.sundayherald.com/internat...512885.0.0.php

The plot thickens.... (apols if this has been noticed before).
Quote:
Key figures in global battle against illegal arms trade lost in Air France crash
ARGENTINA: Argentine campaigner Pablo Dreyfus and Swiss colleague Ronald Dreyer battled South American arms and drug trafficking
From Andrew McLeod
AMID THE media frenzy and speculation over the disappearance of Air France's ill-fated Flight 447, the loss of two of the world's most prominent figures in the war on the illegal arms trade and international drug trafficking has been virtually overlooked.

Pablo Dreyfus, a 39-year-old Argentine who was travelling with his wife Ana Carolina Rodrigues aboard the doomed flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, had worked tirelessly with the Brazilian authorities to stem the flow of arms and ammunition that for years has fuelled the bloody turf wars waged by drug gangs in Rio's sprawling favelas.

Also travelling with Dreyfus on the doomed flight was his friend and colleague Ronald Dreyer, a Swiss diplomat and co-ordinator of the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence who had worked with UN missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo and Angola. Both men were consultants at the Small Arms Survey, an independent think tank based at Geneva's Graduate Institute of International Studies. The Survey said on its website that Dryer had helped mobilise the support of more than 100 countries to the cause of disarmament and development.

Buenos Aires-born Dreyfus had been living in Rio since 2002, where he and his sociologist wife worked with the Brazilian NGO Viva Rio.

"Pablo will be remembered as a gentle and sensitive man with an upbeat sense of humour," said the Small Arms Survey. "He displayed an intellectual curiosity and a determined work ethic that excited and enthused all who worked with him."

According to the International Action Network on Small Arms Control (IANSA), Dreyfus's work was instrumental in the introduction of landmark small arms legislation in Brazil in 2003. Under this legislation, an online link was created between army and police databases listing production, imports and exports of arms and ammunition in Brazil.

Dreyfus was an advocate of the stringent labelling of ammunition by weapons firms, arguing that by clearly identifying ammunition not only by its producer but also its purchaser, the likelihood of weapons being sourced by criminals from corrupt police or armed forces personnel is greatly reduced.

Though a Brazilian referendum on the right to bear arms was rejected in 2005, Viva Rio says the campaign should be considered a success because half a million weapons were voluntarily handed in to the authorities. Anti-gun activists put the referendum defeat down to fears criminals would circumvent the law and continue to gain access to small arms the usual way - through Paraguay and other bordering countries. This was not an irrational fear: until 2004, when Paraguay bowed to Brazilian pressure, even foreign tourists were allowed to purchase small arms simply by presenting a photocopy of their identity card. Dreyfus knew that many of the weapons from the so-called tri-border area between Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina were reaching Rio drug gangs.

When unidentified gunmen made off with a stash of hand grenades from an Argentine military garrison in 2006, Dreyfus deplored what he said was lax security at military depots across the world. "If a supermarket can keep control of the amount of peas it has in stock, surely a military organisation could and should be able to do the same with equal if not greater efficiency with its weapons," he said. "The key words are logisitics, control, security."

When Rio agents smashed a cell of drug traffickers who had sourced their weapons from the tri-border area, Dreyfus noted its leaders were prominent businessmen living in apartments in the plush Rio suburbs of Ipanema and São Corrado, "not in the favelas".

In a recent report posted on the Brazilian website Comunidade Segura (Safe Community), Dreyfus noted that the Brazilian arms firm CBC (Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos) had become one of the world's biggest ammunition producers by purchasing Germany's Metallwerk Elisenhutte Nassau (MEN) in 2007, and Sellier & Bellot (S&B) of the Czech Republic in March. This would not be particularly noteworthy but for the fact that CBC's exports had tapered off in recent years due to legislation restricting exports to Paraguay, arms that often found their way back into Brazil and on to the Rio drug gangs - the "boomerang effect", as Dreyfus called it. "The commercial export of weapons and ammunition from Brazil to the bordering countries stopped in 2001," wrote Dreyfus. "CBC lost commercial markets in Latin America, but Brazil won in public security."

However, manufacturers from other countries had moved in to fill the void, and before its purchase by CBC, S&B was already "one of the marks most currently apprehended" by Brazilian police. Dreyfus said that, in view of the fact the Czech Republic was bound by the EU Code of Conduct on weapons exports - which states that EU countries must "evaluate the existence of the risk that the armament can be diverted to undesirable final destinations", CBC should "consider the risk that some of these exports end up, via diversions, feeding violence in Brazil".

Though his focus was on Latin America, Dreyfus also advised the government of Mozambique and at the time of his death was preparing to do the same for the government of Angola, where stockpiles of weapons left over from the civil war continue to pose a security problem.

Dreyfus and Dreyer were on their way to Geneva to present the latest edition of the Small Arms Survey handbook, of which Dreyfus was a joint editor. It was to have been their latest step in their relentless fight against evil.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:24 PM   #98
Cymatic Veilbegone
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

thank the universe for the internet. How easily this all would have evaporated 20 years ago.....

I'm not jumping to any conclusions here,....but you have to admit....smells like Teen dead fish Spirit....
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:59 AM   #99
Steve_A
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Default Re: Air France airbus goes down

Hi Avid,

Good find! Although it's too early in the game to really seriously think of a bomb, at least we have (at least) one motive. There are, of course, others. There was also a Foreign Relations director from Petrobrás on board. For those who don't know, Petrobrás is a Brazilian partially state run oil company that is under investigation for corruption and trafficking of influences.

The authorities have stated that with the finding of the tail section of the aircraft, it might be easier to locate the black boxes as they are situated near to the tail of the plane (I used to think they were in the cockpit until that note came out).

They also are still trying to justify the 'no bomb' theory stating that none of the 24 bodies recovered so far had burn marks. In response to that I would say that the bomb, if there was one, didn't need to be placed in the passenger area of the aeroplane. It could have been planted in the hold. The fact that the 24 bodies didn't have burn marks is not revealing a great deal as they have not been identified and so the authorities don't know where they were sitting during the flight. They could all have been First Class and seperate from Economy. It seems that just as the Air France pilots are jumping to conclusions about the Pitot, as are the authorities about the 'no bomb' aspect, as are theorists about Alien abduction and vectors.....

I beleive that the Brazilian Navy is doing an excellent job and reckon that before long, who knows even by the end of next week, the black boxes will be found and the truth, as much as can be gleened, will be known.

Best regards,

Steve




[QUOTE=Avid;143625
The plot thickens.... (apols if this has been noticed before).[/QUOTE]
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Old 06-10-2009, 01:59 AM   #100
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Exclamation Re: Air France airbus goes down

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The capability to "take control" of ANY aircraft, in flight or otherwise, has been installed on ALL major airplanes since the Mid-1970s. ...:


"In the mid-seventies America faced a new and escalating crisis, with US commercial jets being hijacked for geopolitical purposes. Determined to gain the upper hand in this new form of aerial warfare, two American multinationals collaborated with the Defense Advanced Projects Agency (DARPA) on a project designed to facilitate the remote recovery of hijacked American aircraft.

"Brilliant both in concept and operation, “Home Run” [not its real code name] allowed specialist ground controllers to listen in to cockpit conversations on the target aircraft, then take absolute control of its computerized flight control system by remote means.

"From that point onwards, regardless of the wishes of the hijackers or flight deck crew, the hijacked aircraft could be recovered and landed automatically at an airport of choice, with no more difficulty than flying a radio-controlled model plane. The engineers had no idea that almost thirty years after its initial design, Home Run’s top secret computer codes would be broken...

"When the multinationals and DARPA finally came on the scene in the mid-seventies, aircraft systems were even more advanced, with computers controlling onboard autopilots, which in turn were capable of controlling all of the onboard hydraulics. In combination these multiple different functions were now known as the “Flight Control System” or FCS...

"In order to make Home Run truly effective, it had to be completely integrated with all onboard systems, and this could only be accomplished with a new aircraft design, several of which were on the drawing boards at that time. Under cover of extreme secrecy, the multinationals and DARPA went ahead on this basis and built “back doors” into the new computer designs.

"There were two very obvious hard requirements at this stage, the first a primary control channel for use in taking over the flight control system and flying the aircraft back to an airfield of choice, and secondly a covert audio channel for monitoring flight deck conversations. Once the primary channel was activated, all aircraft functions came under direct ground control, permanently removing the hijackers and pilots from the control loop.

"Remember here, this was not a system designed to “undermine” the authority of the flight crews, but was put in place as a “doomsday” device in the event the hijackers started to shoot passengers or crew members, possibly including the pilots. ..."


http://www.geocities.com/mknemesis/homerun.html


Once SomeOne, ANYONE, has access to the codes, all bets are off whether any particular flight will make it to it's destination.

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