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Old 05-11-2009, 08:34 AM   #1
Humble Janitor
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Default The fallacy of "good and evil"

If this is the wrong forum, feel free to move this thread.

I want to touch upon a subject that interests me, partially after reading the recent interview with Drunvalo and a few threads in the spirituality forum.

I'd like to discuss the concepts of "good and bad" and "good and evil" and whatnot and how they affect society at large.

To me, there is no such thing as good or bad. I'm not perfect and often make the mistake of judging things as either. However, again, life is not two-dimensional and therefore, there cannot be good or evil. There has to be something in the middle. A balance.

What the world considers to be evil people, in my opinion, are good people who went wrong somewhere. They may have had an idea, a delusion, that something they were doing was righteous and they chose to stick to that concept at the peril of others.

I'm not sure how radical this is and I'm sure it will upset people who are content at labeling certain leaders as evil (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Saddam, etc) instead of thinking about WHY they consider these folks to be evil. Why is it that we consider these labels to be good enough when they ignore the psychology behind the actions of these leaders?

I mean, don't people want to know how and where others went wrong?

And what about those leaders that are supposed to be good? What if they commit actions that are shady or not good at all? Are they still good?

What about the death penalty? How is killing someone that killed another person a good thing? What does that accomplish?

These are questions that I am sure can be answered in time. However, I think we are making a mistake by labeling things as good or bad and leaving them at that.

These concepts do not exist in the universe! They were created by the 3rd Density beings on this planet (or were they? Work of TPTB?) and they must be shelved, cancelled out and cast aside if we are to "move on up" in our spiritual development.

George W.Bush appealed to conservatives with his so called "Axis of Evil" speech but he failed to realize that his own actions were evil! Or did he?

I don't know where I'm going with this post but again, we need to move beyond simply labeling things. As Drunvalo said (actually, my interpretation), we need to see things for what they really are and we need to seek out balance. We all have "good" and "evil" inside of us. It is simply a matter of balance in the universe.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Good=Love

Evil=Fear

"Good" and "Evil" is only a perspective.

Good: of a favorable character or tendency

Evil: morally reprehensible, causing discomfort or repulsion

It even says so in the dictionary.

Love has high rapid frequency.

Fear has a slow frequency.

It's polar.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Love and Fear is more accurate but one can argue that we can't generally define good or evil because due to culture, people have different perspectives on what constitutes both.
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:54 PM   #4
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Smile Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble Janitor View Post
If this is the wrong forum, feel free to move this thread.

I want to touch upon a subject that interests me, partially after reading the recent interview with Drunvalo and a few threads in the spirituality forum.

I'd like to discuss the concepts of "good and bad" and "good and evil" and whatnot and how they affect society at large.

To me, there is no such thing as good or bad. I'm not perfect and often make the mistake of judging things as either. However, again, life is not two-dimensional and therefore, there cannot be good or evil. There has to be something in the middle. A balance.
I agree there must be a balance, and the beginning is realizing I myself am not perfect and it is by grace or luck of the draw I have not had to walk in some others shoes and had to make choices they have made. It makes it much easier to not judge when I do that.

Quote:
I'm not sure how radical this is and I'm sure it will upset people who are content at labeling certain leaders as evil (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Saddam, etc) instead of thinking about WHY they consider these folks to be evil. Why is it that we consider these labels to be good enough when they ignore the psychology behind the actions of these leaders?
I think it is the actions of these people that others thus label them "evil". I mean Saddam and his sons putting living people in wood chippers does seem a bit evil. The others are guilty of ordering millions killed to protect their power base or political system. Does that make them evil? Hmmm, I dunno, but I'm glad they are no longer in control for the most part.

Quote:
I mean, don't people want to know how and where others went wrong?
Good question. Yes, I think understanding how they went "wrong" would be helpful. I'm still glad Hitler, Stalin, and others are no longer working their plans.

Quote:
What about the death penalty? How is killing someone that killed another person a good thing? What does that accomplish?
My first response is, "Well, they won't do that again will they?" I don't think the death penalty should be easily handed out; however, I do believe there may be certain crimes that deserve it, and the one who perpetrated it has simply used up this current life card and can go on to the other side, see what happened and hopefully learn a lesson not to do it again. Ugh, I do hate the idea though of judging them.

Quote:
These are questions that I am sure can be answered in time. However, I think we are making a mistake by labeling things as good or bad and leaving them at that.
Yes, I agree. That does seem a bit simplistic and narrow minded. If we can all step out of the "JUDGMENT" role, then these terrible conflicts that lead to violence would cease to exist for the most part. I mean, the leaders we listed obviously judged others and it lead to great violence. I think judging others is a very bad thing, and causes most of the chaos we see today, and the ptb know the power of that cycle.

Quote:
George W.Bush appealed to conservatives with his so called "Axis of Evil" speech but he failed to realize that his own actions were evil! Or did he?
Oh, he is just using the ol' tactic of divide and conquer. The goal was taking over the oil, enriching the oil cartel, and of course another glorious war to keep the people distracted, fearful, and unable to think. I do think there are those who have faulty DNA and maybe they need to move on, learn to love, remap their DNA etc and come back with a new outlook on mankind, souls, unity, love, and living in harmony not living for power over the "eaters".

Quote:
I don't know where I'm going with this post but again, we need to move beyond simply labeling things. As Drunvalo said (actually, my interpretation), we need to see things for what they really are and we need to seek out balance. We all have "good" and "evil" inside of us. It is simply a matter of balance in the universe.
Excellent post, and yes, we need to move beyond this limited way of thinking. I pray that my DNA will align and fully embrace Unity, Love, and non-judgment

Hugs,

Unified Serenity
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Moral relativism and ambiguity have made it very easy for the bad-guys to have their way throughout history. A jerk should be labeled a jerk regardless of the extenuating circumstances which made them a jerk. Christians have rationalized the genocide and conquest in the Old Testament...and ignored the Teachings of Jesus...in part because of a failure to properly understand and discern the difference between right and wrong. The book of Revelation describes a genocidal final solution...and no one seems to notice that this is morally reprehensible. Christians supported Adolph Hitler and the Third Reich...as well as Neo-Conservatism, Dick Cheney, and the Iraq Crusade. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U46LTttsMMQ You can reject fundamentalism and monotheism if you like...but please don't go soft on the subject of ethics.

Psychology, Ethics, and Spirituality are a trinity which must move in harmony and unity. They should be examined, debated, and reexamined...endlessly. There should be a hard line established regarding what works and what does not work...what is right and what is wrong...and then a softness should ensue regarding the helping of people to become better people...rather than just locking them up...and throwing away the key.

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Old 05-11-2009, 03:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

There is no black and white, I personally walk the grey line.

I don't think even Jesus was a 100% "good". We tend to only remember the good or bad exclusively about historical figures. Duality is a trap.
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

I understand what you guys are saying...but I am very concerned about highly unethical behavior which gets completely missed...and which sometimes results in millions of people dying horrible deaths. This can be known as creeping compromise. I met Joseph Fletcher, the author of 'Situation Ethics', in the late 80's. This book caused a major uproar in the Christian community when it was published in the late 60's. He told me, in essence, that Christianity was bs. Bishop James Pike was another controversial proponent of situation ethics. He vigorously opposed the Viet Nam War from the pulpit at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco. I believe in situation ethics...and I also believe in the words of Jesus. Situation ethics should be used to sharpen, rather than blur, ethical discernment. Ethics at the Dulce Deep Underground Military Base is a Grey Area...

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Old 05-11-2009, 05:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Humble Janitor, thank you for this thread. This whole thing has been on my mind for years. For what it's worth, here's my take.

We do live in a world of duality/polarity, and the great majority of us experience it (historically) within the limits of our five senses. We're starting to expand that, however.

I do believe that the source from which we came is neutral, and there good and evil do not exist fundamentally. What we see as evil in the world, though it causes great destruction, only arises to test us, challenge the assumptions we make about what we are.

Let's look at Hitler as an example, though this theory can be applied to any evil issue: serial killers, child abuse, even poverty, and on and on.

From the U.S. point of view, we were only 60 years past the Civil War and the freeing of the slaves when the Third Reich came to power. The South was still quite bitter about their loss, and African Americans were still treated in this country as something less than human. In Europe (and correct me here if I'm wrong), there was already a long-seated mistrust of the Jews, an old undercurrent of anti-Semitism. Otherwise, how could the Third Reich's desire for a "perfect race" latch so completely onto the genocide of the Jews as the correct path to take to that end?

So (bear with me a moment) at the time of the Third Reich and Hitler, there was already a strong undercurrent of racism in both the U.S. and Europe, and probably other places in the world, too. Hitler spoke to that general xenophobia and was accepted in Germany as a messiah.

And the U.S. didn't join the effort to take him down right away. I believe one of the reasons for that was because our own racism/xenophobia was running so deep at the time.

So we have this strong, unquestioned current of hatred for those not like us flowing in the psyche of society at that time. Hitler, though responsible for his own actions just as all the rest of us are, could never have risen to that magnitude of power without such a strong current.

He brought that current of racism to a head, leaving horrible destruction in his wake. We were obligated to come to the collective point of having to face that racism inside ourselves, and then having to make a decision how to deal with it.

I would like to make the suggestion that at that point in time, because we were blind to that hatred within us and what it could cause, Hitler served the dark purpose of WAKING US UP.

If we as a world hadn't gone through that, I'm not sure the Civil Rights movement of the '60s in the U.S, or the end of Apartheid in South Africa would have occurred in the same way they did.

Don't get me wrong. I know we still have billions of miles to go before we achieve true equality in this world. And I absolutely disagree with everything Hitler was in every way. But without the horror he caused, I feel we would still be asleep on that issue.

Was he necessary? He didn't have to be. It was our own shadow that brought him forth.

And to me, that's what evil in the world is: a call to wake up to what is unexamined in us, a challenge to evolve as a species. The trick is to catch it before the situation becomes so desperate and horrific.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Humble Janitor, thank you for this thread. This whole thing has been on my mind for years. For what it's worth, here's my take.

We do live in a world of duality/polarity, and the great majority of us experience it (historically) within the limits of our five senses. We're starting to expand that, however.

I do believe that the source from which we came is neutral, and there good and evil do not exist fundamentally. What we see as evil in the world, though it causes great destruction, only arises to test us, challenge the assumptions we make about what we are.

Let's look at Hitler as an example, though this theory can be applied to any evil issue: serial killers, child abuse, even poverty, and on and on.

From the U.S. point of view, we were only 60 years past the Civil War and the freeing of the slaves when the Third Reich came to power. The South was still quite bitter about their loss, and African Americans were still treated in this country as something less than human. In Europe (and correct me here if I'm wrong), there was already a long-seated mistrust of the Jews, an old undercurrent of anti-Semitism. Otherwise, how could the Third Reich's desire for a "perfect race" latch so completely onto the genocide of the Jews as the correct path to take to that end?

So (bear with me a moment) at the time of the Third Reich and Hitler, there was already a strong undercurrent of racism in both the U.S. and Europe, and probably other places in the world, too. Hitler spoke to that general xenophobia and was accepted in Germany as a messiah.

And the U.S. didn't join the effort to take him down right away. I believe one of the reasons for that was because our own racism/xenophobia was running so deep at the time.

So we have this strong, unquestioned current of hatred for those not like us flowing in the psyche of society at that time. Hitler, though responsible for his own actions just as all the rest of us are, could never have risen to that magnitude of power without such a strong current.

He brought that current of racism to a head, leaving horrible destruction in his wake. We were obligated to come to the collective point of having to face that racism inside ourselves, and then having to make a decision how to deal with it.

I would like to make the suggestion that at that point in time, because we were blind to that hatred within us and what it could cause, Hitler served the dark purpose of WAKING US UP.

If we as a world hadn't gone through that, I'm not sure the Civil Rights movement of the '60s in the U.S, or the end of Apartheid in South Africa would have occurred in the same way they did.

Don't get me wrong. I know we still have billions of miles to go before we achieve true equality in this world. And I absolutely disagree with everything Hitler was in every way. But without the horror he caused, I feel we would still be asleep on that issue.

Was he necessary? He didn't have to be. It was our own shadow that brought him forth.

And to me, that's what evil in the world is: a call to wake up to what is unexamined in us, a challenge to evolve as a species. The trick is to catch it before the situation becomes so desperate and horrific.
I am in total agreement with you!
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

The strange thing is that there are actually two designed paths that people have the free will to choose between. Neither one of them is right and neither one of them is wrong. However, the rewards are much more enjoyable on the path of light than on the path of dark. But then if you asked one of the people polarized towards the negative they would say that the rewards of that way are better on that path. One thing is for certain, sitting on the fence and playing on both sides was fine up until now. However, now the two polarities are racing away from each other. If you do not choose one or the other soon your consciousness will fragment and you will loose you mind.

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Old 05-12-2009, 01:17 AM   #11
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Humble Janitor, thank you for this thread. This whole thing has been on my mind for years. For what it's worth, here's my take.

We do live in a world of duality/polarity, and the great majority of us experience it (historically) within the limits of our five senses. We're starting to expand that, however.

I do believe that the source from which we came is neutral, and there good and evil do not exist fundamentally. What we see as evil in the world, though it causes great destruction, only arises to test us, challenge the assumptions we make about what we are.

Let's look at Hitler as an example, though this theory can be applied to any evil issue: serial killers, child abuse, even poverty, and on and on.

From the U.S. point of view, we were only 60 years past the Civil War and the freeing of the slaves when the Third Reich came to power. The South was still quite bitter about their loss, and African Americans were still treated in this country as something less than human. In Europe (and correct me here if I'm wrong), there was already a long-seated mistrust of the Jews, an old undercurrent of anti-Semitism. Otherwise, how could the Third Reich's desire for a "perfect race" latch so completely onto the genocide of the Jews as the correct path to take to that end?

So (bear with me a moment) at the time of the Third Reich and Hitler, there was already a strong undercurrent of racism in both the U.S. and Europe, and probably other places in the world, too. Hitler spoke to that general xenophobia and was accepted in Germany as a messiah.

And the U.S. didn't join the effort to take him down right away. I believe one of the reasons for that was because our own racism/xenophobia was running so deep at the time.

So we have this strong, unquestioned current of hatred for those not like us flowing in the psyche of society at that time. Hitler, though responsible for his own actions just as all the rest of us are, could never have risen to that magnitude of power without such a strong current.

He brought that current of racism to a head, leaving horrible destruction in his wake. We were obligated to come to the collective point of having to face that racism inside ourselves, and then having to make a decision how to deal with it.

I would like to make the suggestion that at that point in time, because we were blind to that hatred within us and what it could cause, Hitler served the dark purpose of WAKING US UP.

If we as a world hadn't gone through that, I'm not sure the Civil Rights movement of the '60s in the U.S, or the end of Apartheid in South Africa would have occurred in the same way they did.

Don't get me wrong. I know we still have billions of miles to go before we achieve true equality in this world. And I absolutely disagree with everything Hitler was in every way. But without the horror he caused, I feel we would still be asleep on that issue.

Was he necessary? He didn't have to be. It was our own shadow that brought him forth.

And to me, that's what evil in the world is: a call to wake up to what is unexamined in us, a challenge to evolve as a species. The trick is to catch it before the situation becomes so desperate and horrific.
Good point. Everything happens for a reason and when we allow the negative and ugly side of human nature to dominate, it produces horrific results.

My point isn't to dismiss the ethical violations of certain leaders. Rather, it's to examine the labels of good and evil and how we are content with applying them and leaving them be.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Good and evil simply have no relationship to each other. Let me suggest that trying to compare them is a little like wanting to compare the number two with the color blue. .
As previous posts seem to imply, it's probably easier to look at something more concrete, like "harm" rather than "evil". Do no harm. Or else, if harm seems unavoidable, do minimal harm. Or else, if even that isn't possible because you're constrained by power somebody else is exerting, be as creative as practicable with the situation, and also, if practicable, work on trying to change the arrangements. That's the ethical principle all social workers, psychologists, nurses, doctors, etc, are required to follow.

But how can we be sure we're not doing harm? And of course, power is so addictive that people tend to let it take them over and blind them. I'd like to suggest you or I may not necessarily have done better than Hitler, or Genghis Khan, or whoever, if you or I had been put into a position like theirs.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Human history is our history...especially if reincarnation is a reality. We may have been the worst and the best people in history. We should be able to tell the difference between good and evil...and refer to it as such...without rationalizations or euphemisms. Consider 'Whatever Happened to Sin?' by Karl Menninger. However...if we had been in Hitler's shoes...we might have been even worse. Studies have been done which supports this hypothesis. When one closely examines Hitler and the Third Reich...it becomes painfully obvious that Hitler had a lot of 'help'. He seemed to be a front man for even darker specimens of 'humanity'. Some have suggested that evil non-humans were the real force behind Hitler. Some have suggested that evil non-humans are the real force behind the New World Order and a possible Fourth Reich.

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Old 05-14-2009, 05:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

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Originally Posted by Humble Janitor View Post
George W.Bush appealed to conservatives with his so called "Axis of Evil" speech but he failed to realize that his own actions were evil! Or did he?

In a phony democracy, evil things committed by evil doers need special attention; these evil things need to be justified and glamorized.

Water torture should be called water boarding.

Genociding should be called incurring collateral damage.

And just today, supressing the truth is for your own good.

Obama Moves to Bar Release of Detainee Abuse Photos
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...ef=global-home

Phony phony phony.

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Old 05-14-2009, 05:07 AM   #15
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Some have suggested that evil non-humans were the real force behind Hitler. Some have suggested that evil non-humans are the real force behind the New World Order and a possible Fourth Reich.
Alex Collier would likely agree with you on this point.

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Old 05-14-2009, 05:30 AM   #16
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As previous posts seem to imply, it's probably easier to look at something more concrete, like "harm" rather than "evil". Do no harm. Or else, if harm seems unavoidable, do minimal harm.

But how can we be sure we're not doing harm? And of course, power is so addictive that people tend to let it take them over and blind them. I'd like to suggest you or I may not necessarily have done better than Hitler, or Genghis Khan, or whoever, if you or I had been put into a position like theirs.
Pre-emptive strike (based on mind reading, intelligence reports, or "God asked me to") is not the path to minimizing harm.

Unfortunately, with the acquisition of alien technology, certain black op groups confused destructive power with constructive power.

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Old 05-17-2009, 08:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Hi new to forum, first post .

My thoughts on "good and evil".

Evil is short for "Energy Veil". Currently, earth is under a pretty thick collective energy veil that makes it appear as though we are separate from each other and from the infinite. Through this illusion of separation, there appears to be a good and bad side, and we just have to pick the good side and fight the bad side and we win. The illusion we are under is duality, everything has a seemingly opposite. However, the reality is everything and everyone is One. There is no separation in reality, only the energy veil (evil) that makes it appear as though there is separation.

As long as we choose a side to fight on, and believe there are the evil ones out there that we need to fight to bring peace, then we are caught up in duality and even increasing the illusion of separation, the energy veil.

Anything that increases the illusion of separation could be classified as "evil" because it contributes to making the energy veil denser. Suffering is the result of separation.

So true "good" is light and it's not here to fight anything including the darkness, however, we are here to shine our light on the shadows so that the truth can be seen.

The truth is abundance and Oneness. When we realize the reality, that we are one with our source, that we are individualization's of the infinite, then the suffering and apparent lack on this planet will be forever finished and the game will be reset on the true principles of harmony and abundance...

In a sense there is a battle between good and evil outplaying itself on the earth, it is a battle between reality and illusion. As free will co-creators, the people of the earth determine whether this planet needs to experience more of the illusion of separation, suffering and lack or whether we are ready for the reality of abundance through Oneness.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Welcome 14 Chakras... and quite succinct the correlation you present, good (unity)(reality) vs evil (division)(illusion).

I think that what is primarily and fundamentally at issue is how we handle what is deemed "negative". Most are satisfied merely identifying it, mostly outwardly, rarely inwardly and when they do, it's forgiven or understood.
Why this is not granted to others is the salient point. Why this is not "graced" toward all, toward life itself???

I do not think that fear is the opposite of love. There is either love or the lack of love. There is either fear or the lack of.

This unity concept is a very difficult one for most people.
And it is worthy of contemplation.

There are times that I cannot fathom why it is that I perform in this life as I do... it's as though I'm not really living "myself" but life is "living me", so to speak.
I experience things, I think thoughts that are unsavory... whether perceived or caused by myself...

it's a mystery. Still, to me, but I"m onward moving to understanding & compassion; responding instead of reacting, that sort of thing.

I have realized that I trust the process of Life.
When I look into my own eyes or anothers' I intend to see "God" the creator, the accountable.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:52 PM   #19
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Moxie: I agree with what you said about fear and love. Great love can overcome fear...but they are not opposites. One can have great love and great fear simultaneously. To me...love is responsibility...first and foremost. The emotional and erotic aspects are a distant second and third. Love is my decision to make your problem my problem(Dr. Robert H. Schuller).
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:43 AM   #20
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

"This unity concept is a very difficult one for most people."

- Yes surely, or I think we would already have heaven manifest here on earth. Perhaps it's up to the ground crew, the pioneers in consciousness, to break through the illusions when they're still dense and make an easy and nice road for others to follow... for me a key understanding I have come to is that when I overcome my illusions of separation, I don't lose me. I don't lose the I AM, I gain my real identity which is beyond identification in the world of form, but is still very conscious and very alive. God did not create infinite individualization's of itself to have them lose their sense of identity when they Ascend, God created sons and daughters who will ascend in knowing our Oneness with the whole, but Being unique individualization's within it (a riddle I believe we must solve to achieve enlightenment)

"There are times that I cannot fathom why it is that I perform in this life as I do... it's as though I'm not really living "myself" but life is "living me", so to speak. I experience things, I think thoughts that are unsavory... whether perceived or caused by myself..."

- I am reminded of Paul of Tarsus when he writes in what appears to be an especially down on himself time in his mission "How to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Paul goes on to explain that it is the carnal mind that is causing him problems here...

Are you both talking about the same thing?

Eckhart Tolle in "the Power of Now" and "A New Earth" does a bang up job explaining this phenomenon. The human ego, which Paul referred to as the carnal mind, may be at fault here...

My take is, our conscious self has come to identify as the illusion of being separated from the whole, this has birthed the separate ego, but this separate sense of identity is more like Dr. Jekyl than our true divine Self. It's not 'evil' it's just based on an illusion that you are something static and separate. When you begin to observe it, you begin to shine light on it and transmute the illusion. Dr. Jekyl starts to fade and eventually disappear to be replaced by the reality of who we are... infinite spiritual beings here to raise up our co-creation. The illusion of limitation is what falls away…

From my own experience, I've come to see that when I'm coming from my heart which is beyond my ego, I'm a lot more effective and the end result is something I'm a lot happier with. It's when I out think my heart and do something that is comparing my separate sense of identity with others that I find I run into trouble in the long run...

I personally have found Eckhart Tolle's books to be hugely beneficial in becoming aware of the two voices and starting to choose the higher one that brings me more peace, certainly not always easy or mistake free, but I have found it a fruitful and worthwhile journey nonetheless. Have you read any Tolle?

"I think that what is primarily and fundamentally at issue is how we handle what is deemed "negative".… When I look into my own eyes or anothers' I intend to see "God" the creator, the accountable."

- That sounds pretty good to me! I don't think the creator is here to let itself off the hook that easily. Unconditional Love means not letting a part of itself get trapped forever in the illusion of separation and suffering. The creator wants to raise itSelf up within it's own creation, but it's everything, and that's where we as part of the body of the creator come in! I think that means that we’re here to shine our unique light on the darkness.

It appears as though there are forces in our world who feel very much separate from the whole and are willing to push the rest of humanity down to raise themselves up. That may not be a karmically smart thing to do and the time may be here that all beings will be faced with the choice, am I willing to come up higher and realize my interconnectedness with other life? Or am I so lost in my illusions of grandeur and self righteousness that I'm going to die when the illusion dies? Although it can be put off for a while, I think the statement "you reap as you sew" applies to all of creation... even ‘the prince of this world’….

But that's kind of the point, if we get so upset about injustice and believe it's our job to punish it, then we may ourselves create karma in the process and become a part of the problem of increasing the illusion of separation and getting ourselves in some endless dualistic struggle while we’re at it.

I believe the universe has laws set up to handle injustice, and none can escape from the rule forever - you reap as you sew. I think that's why Jesus said "turn the other cheek". It's not that it's ok for someone to wrong you, or humanity, but when we understand they are really wronging themselves and will have to pay back this misuse of energy themselves, that they are in fact judging themselves by their reaction to you when you come from a place of light, then we don't need to get ourselves into trouble by seeking revenge and keeping the cycle going... instead we can forgive them, which will in turn free ourselves from any negative energy, return to the Now, and as you say “trust life”…

However, I don't think we should ever let them stop us from shining our light and seeking and Being our truth!

Last edited by 14 Chakras; 05-20-2009 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:53 AM   #21
14 Chakras
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

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Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Moxie: I agree with what you said about fear and love. Great love can overcome fear...but they are not opposites. One can have great love and great fear simultaneously. To me...love is responsibility...first and foremost. The emotional and erotic aspects are a distant second and third. Love is my decision to make your problem my problem(Dr. Robert H. Schuller).
For me: Love IS. Fear is illusion.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:07 PM   #22
Triaxis
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

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I do believe that the source from which we came is neutral, and there good and evil do not exist fundamentally. What we see as evil in the world, though it causes great destruction, only arises to test us, challenge the assumptions we make about what we are.
I agree with this post.

Look at the Merkaba, or the ying-yang symbols ect, and the theme is balance. This balance not only applies the the masculine/feminine, but also the positive negative.

Personally, I have delved deep enough into the negative (not to the sociopath level) but deep enough to realize that that polarity leads to destruction and corrosion of the soul.

I have also delved fairly far into the postive, and found that a rather bland, unproductive experience which lead to a stagnation of my soul.

When I returned back to the centre, I drew back for an objective look, looked left and right, and decided that too much of either polarity is unhealthy. Yet paradoxically, too little of either is unhealthy too.

Last edited by Triaxis; 05-20-2009 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:36 PM   #23
Triaxis
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
For me: Love IS. Fear is illusion.
How about a scenario such as:

Your 8 year old child, who you love intensely, is twenty meters up a tree and about to climb along a branch that looks dead and ready to snap?

You love the child. But you also fear that the branch will snap and they will plummet to the ground and end up a gory mess at your feet.

In this case, love and fear both exist in the same paradigm and both emotions are quite real.

Last edited by Triaxis; 05-20-2009 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

Humble Janitor, I haven't time to read all the posts maybe you can summarize for me ... thanks.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:56 AM   #25
14 Chakras
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Default Re: The fallacy of "good and evil"

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Originally Posted by Triaxis View Post
How about a scenario such as:

Your 8 year old child, who you love intensely, is twenty meters up a tree and about to climb along a branch that looks dead and ready to snap?

You love the child. But you also fear that the branch will snap and they will plummet to the ground and end up a gory mess at your feet.

In this case, love and fear both exist in the same paradigm and both emotions are quite real.
Does the fear help the child?

I believe we are co-creators of our reality. Whatever we put our attention on, we give power to. I have heard it said the universe is a mirror that will reflect back to us whatever we send out.

When we fear something, we may be giving it power. The more we fear it, the more likely we are to have to experience the fear. The universe responds with whatever you are sending it, wherever your attention is, the universe will reflect that back.

For example a James Redfield story, two men were traveling through a foreign country, one had an intense fear of getting arrested and tortured at the border, the other had no such fear. Guess who got arrested and tortured at the border?

In the example above, I see that it is love that will show you the branch is dangerous and love that will get you to warn her and stop her from doing the dangerous activity. Could fear may in fact increase the likelihood of an accident occurring by giving power to that potential? I think it's possible..

As Jesus said (paraphrasing): Anxiety and worry cannot add one day to our lives or one inch to our stature; they are not productive.
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