Young people??? Teenagers???

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Ah young people and teenagers, reminds me of Nirvana=Smells Like Teen Spirit, or Skid Row=18 and Life,or Youth Gone Wild You are the future of our world!

Nirvana, Kurt Cobain was always obsessed with the return to infancy. Remind me to this "Youth and Regression in an Infantile Society":

http://deoxy.org/infantile.htm

"by John Zerzan


Among the young there are quite a few examples of a tendency to regress or turn back. Whether or not these phenomena are characteristic of something called "Generation X" we must leave for media to determine; after all, it's their job to define and make intelligible social reality. That aside, I think there are aspects of regression that are noteworthy/possibly significant, and which need to be put in context.

Childhood was once a place of refuge, a secure zone of protection and innocence. For some time, however, as with every other part of life, the commodity and its attendant forms of violence have invaded this sphere. And yet it continues to represent a sort of haven, if some youth fashions are any indication. The waif look and Dr. Seuss-style clothes reflect this yearning to go back to a relatively better time and place. Seeing teens in oversized shirts and sweaters, for example, the sleeves hiding their hands, gives one a pronounced impression that they fear where they're headed and would like to be small children again.

As in the case of putting a question mark on every utterance, "like" bespeaks an indirectness that borders on fear of connecting with reality.
Popular forms of speech are another site of regression, it is possible to argue. Making statements into questions by the use of rising intonation is a type of stepping back from reality. The declarative sentence becomes an entreaty, "am I right in making even the most inoccuous assertion?" The speaker unconsciously questions his or her ability to say anything straightforwardly.

The infinitely overused "like", as ubiquitous qualifier, also seems to signify a reversion, or evasion of adulthood. As in the case of putting a question mark on every utterance, "like" bespeaks an indirectness that borders on fear of connecting with reality. "We like went to the beach." Did you go or not? Reigning pop culture screenwriter Quentin Tarentino cannot seem to refrain from "like" in his own speech, an instance of postmodern semi-literacy. In the high-tech age of virtual reality perhaps reality is becoming virtual in a less noticed sense than VR.

Non-literacy is in a very important sense a reaction to the tremendous accumulation of lies that comprises modern culture and everyday life.
Which brings to mind the tendency toward illiteracy itself. While certainly not confined to the young generation, this development is less one of others' losing their literacy than it is of youth having less interest in adopting it than in previous times. The young Sartre once proclaimed that "No-one has written a word of truth about us." Non-literacy is in a very important sense a reaction to the tremendous accumulation of lies that comprises modern culture and everyday life.

Television, a passive and in that respect childish form of mass media, has never been so widely consumed. Today's youth are not the first TV generation, but are more and more subject to what is often even stupider than before. Sociologist Vicki Abt revealed in fall 1994 her estimation, based on the study of 1,000 hours of Oprah, Donahue, and Sally Jessy Raphael, that 90 percent of the guests are illiterate. She draws the unmistakable conclusions as to the effects on viewers' literacy levels. To be obsessed with entertainment is reportediy a characteristic of "twentysomethings". And why not? Who could feel more betrayed in the desert of late capitalist nothingness than those most immersed in its recent worsening, and more desperately in need of diversion from its horrors?

Today's music exhibits the themes of regression with a vengeance, or, I suppose one should say, without a vengeance. Doe-eyed gamin Kate Bush ("Mother Stands for Comfort," "The Warm Room") tends toward a retreat to childhood, while album cover art displays takes on kiddies, dolls, and the like (from groups like Dinosaur Jr., Stone Temple Pilots, Mutha's Day Out, Babes in Toyland, Sonic Youth).
Nowhere was this more graphic than with Nirvana, whose third and final album was called In Utero. Returning to the womb was a recurring theme of Kurt Cobain, the anguished wail of one whose childhood could certainly not be taken for an idyll, in life or art. His regression was driven to its furthest point, in life and art.

If punk in the late '70s drew on a vital rage, rock today, to generalize grandly, is more about powerlessness, fear, violation, confusion. Not that any of this is exactly new. The notebooks of Theodor Adorno fifty years ago were the basis for his Minimalia Moralia, a collection of short pieces that was subtitled Reflections on Damaged Life. He referred to his own damage; life in divided society is no abstraction, it damages each of us increasingly. In The New Yorker (March 7, 1994), reviewer Terrence Rafferty complained that the movie Reality Bites failed to give a clear picture of the new generation; it left one feeling "puzzled and vaguely crummy." Soon after, a letter to the editor by Josh Cohen provided this reply: "I hate to be the one to tell him this, but feeling puzzled and vaguely crummy pretty much is the experience of the new generation."

Under "regression" one might add the seemingly more common occurrence of young adults returning to live with their parents. In a context of so few jobs that pay relatively decent wages, many cannot afford to do otherwise. Beyond that fact of life, there is a widespread rejection of white-collar careerism. But this refusal, in the absence of grounds for idealism, does not translate into freely chosen poverty or marginality. Thus, unlike the young in the '60s or even '70s, more choose to live with parents or accept, where possible, major support from them.

Depression has been widely touted as endemic to the twentysomething generation, which explains the resonance of books like Elizabeth Wurtzel's confessional Prozac Nation: Young and Depressed in America (1994). As psychologist Martin Seligman's best-selling 1990 Learned Optimism put it, "Severe depression is 10 times more prevalent today than it was 50 years ago, and it strikes a full decade earlier in life on average than it did a generation ago." Among the news of rising drug use and its incidence among younger and younger age groups, there were two national studies in 1994 concerning the "startling" increase of binge drinking by college students, especially women. 'They reported rampant alcohol abuse leading to violence, vandalism, and other types of aggression.

Such feelings and behaviors testify to frustration and despair that have nowhere to go when the social landscape is so frozen.
Such feelings and behaviors testify to frustration and despair that have nowhere to go when the social landscape is so frozen. Disaffection or even opposition are quickly marketed into salable style images; alienation as fashion. Meanwhile suicide, perhaps the ultimate regression, has been on a steady rise for several decades. And not just in the U.S., by the way. In Japan, Wataru Tsurumi's Complete Manual of Suicide (1993) sold over 200,000 copies in its first few months, chiefly to those under thirty.

Eating disorders are trademark afflictions of today's young people and mirror the powerlessness of one's very early years. To not eat harks back to the stage at which this choice is almost the only option for protest. Retreating from the world of school, occupations, etc., it constitutes, according to Kim Chernin's The Hungry Self (1985), "an extremely effective way to stop the movement into the world."

For the past couple of decades or so, the psychological model of the individual has been that of Narcissus, named for the self-absorbed mythological figure. The popular Culture of Narcissism by Christopher Lasch (1979) was part of the shift from the earlier long-standing Oedipus personality paradigm. Today's dominant type is now one of longing for the absence of unsatisfied yearnings, a harkening back to an original unity/wholeness/perfection. The young, as might be surmised, are pre-eminently bearers of this recently arrived ethos, one which is primarily defined as a regression. Narcissistic disappointment, often termed "unrealistic," cannot accept the essentially "mediocre" nature of ordinary life (Kernberg 1988). Thus it is easy to see that narcissism is part of a general movement away from sacrifice and repression and thus has subversive potential. Of course, it is also true that there are common weaknesses in this personality orientation, such as self-absorption which takes no notice of the nature of society and hence neglects to question it. New Age solipsism is a perfect example of this tendency.

All narcissistic types, according to Bursten (1986) are capable of flying into rages. This is related to the commonly-seen trait of narcissistic humiliation; the intolerable sense of injury and impotence contains the implicit threat of its forceful reversal. In this context, it doesn't seem out of place to mention that there has been, since the 1960s, a large literature linking narcissism and "terrorism."

Taking account of regressive features among some of the young, one has to recognize in these features at least a somewhat justified strategy, on whatever level it could be said to be such. The world that youth are expected to enter and reproduce is bankrupt, fearsome, and without prospects.

In fact, it is far more infantile in its workings and categories than in the defenses against it that youth erect for their own integrity. Not only, as a foundation of modern life, does the encroaching high-tech principle render us all daily more dependent; the institutions of society—and media is only the most glaring example—are themselves infantile and infantilizing. Who would legitimately feel anything but the need to "regress" in the opposite direction of such a non-future? "

[Dantheman62]

O.K. I read the article, but I think the young people on this forum are very articulate and intelligent regardless. I'm actually surprised alittle, because when I was their age I was just looking for the next party to go to, and the next girl to see, and the next drug to take. These people seem to have their s...t together!

[herbivore]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

O.K. I read the article, but I think the young people on this forum are very articulate and intelligent regardless. I'm actually surprised alittle, because when I was their age I was just looking for the next party to go to, and the next girl to see, and the next drug to take. These people seem to have their s...t together!

true dat. yet i have to say we're still quite a minority.

[Dantheman62]

Maybe so but you guys are much better than me or any of my friends were at your age!, herb,HaHa herb, how's the herb, herb?!

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Maybe so but you guys are much better than me or any of my friends were at your age!, herb,HaHa herb, how's the herb, herb?!

i dont think they are particularly better, just that hey have another mission inside to achieve or something, unless you want to be like them and you are seeing you are really worse at the job O_o. For me, you don´t have to feel ashamed of the life you have had when u were teenager, it´s just completely out of place to think that. Good that you enjoyed it,

[Jacqui D]

Welcome to all you youngsters!
It's so nice to hear that there is a younger generation awakening their souls and becoming the adults of our future.
As an oldie myself i smiled when i saw such opened minds and you have all given me hope that time to come will be left in your hands to take over.

Lets face it we haven't exactly left it in a good condition have we, you have the benefit of seeing change, you have the benefit to make change.

Love to you all

[Dantheman62]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

i dont think they are particularly better, just that hey have another mission inside to achieve or something, unless you want to be like them and you are seeing you are really worse at the job O_o. For me, you don´t have to feel ashamed of the life you have had when u were teenager, it´s just completely out of place to think that. Good that you enjoyed it,

Nope not ashamed at all, in fact it was a blast, and I don't think they're better just alot more articulate!

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Nope not ashamed at all, in fact it was a blast, and I don't think they're better just alot more articulate!

mine was a ****.

[Dean Plejaren]

Originally Posted by Jacqui D

Welcome to all you youngsters!
It's so nice to hear that there is a younger generation awakening their souls and becoming the adults of our future.
As an oldie myself i smiled when i saw such opened minds and you have all given me hope that time to come will be left in your hands to take over.

Lets face it we haven't exactly left it in a good condition have we, you have the benefit of seeing change, you have the benefit to make change.

Love to you all

We won't let you down.

[SoldierOfTruth808]

I just wanna remind everyone...we arent only talking about teenagers. Were also refering to the huge population of 20somethings and a few 30someodds that just helped Obama into presidency. The ones who will LITERALLY be ushering in the new age. It only takes a second to open your eyes, look around and see, that a shift in consciousness is ALREADY in the works. Old ways are ALREADY obsolete. The next generation has ALREADY stepped up to the plate. Soon no one will be able to deny us the respect we deserve.


As for that long article Deo... That seems a little dated. The youth of today are dealing with a different sort of cancer. From all that image bullsh!t that came out of the 90s we have born and living a new sort of media monster. One that has perfected the art of exploiting teen rebelian for profit. One that has taken the dark view we adopted from the grunge and goth phases of the 90s and made it into a more effective business. There is no art or expression in the mainstream media. Theres is no more originality in the lime light. Bands are hired and formed not forged, products for kids are sold DAILY episode by episode by half hour long Commercials disguised as TV shows, stars are made on live TV with minimal talent, just popular vote after being measured up against other minimally talented people. Profit before pride thats the world motto...or at least for America. If even 10 youthful individuals can stand up amongst the seas of sheep that exist in our society today, that is a gigantic gain. The thing is theres a lot more than 10 standing up, I think for the most part were all tired of eating what we are fed. Even those I talk to who have no consciousness of Camelot or Avalon or any sort of underground news source that outlines alternative thoughts of society and government and spirtuality, even they share our view of how our reality should be, even they are sick of eating ***** for the current standards. I have to believe that this shift of consciousness, this new way of life and thinking, this future that we are all trying to predict.... is as simple as, were growing up... and were taking the reigns.


Thanks for listening,
Ro

[herbivore]

yeah i don't restrict 'young people' to teenagers, i'd say 12-30 would be what i call young.

and although i don't approve of obama, nor did i vote for him, i believe the future he will bring will have a necessary place in our world and IMO - be a tool for many on the path to enlightenment.

the herb's good.

[Dantheman62]

[SoldierOfTruth808]

Im not sure that Obama is the answer either, Im not convinced that He nor McCain were a good choice. But I feel that we are definetly heading in a different direction now... and whether its stormy seas or smooth ones, we asked for a change in climate and were going to get it.

[Fun 4U Leader]

[QUOTE=Dean Plejaren;69619]Avalon Members.



So this is what I prepose.
*Working as a group rather than individually.
*Having a strong direct focus to achieve empowerment of the individual and their happiness.
*Waging war on anything that obstructs the previous and overcoming it.



Dean,
I like your zeal. A strong direct focus is an admiral trait for anyone.

But, do you seriously mean what you are saying, working as a group for individual happiness, waging war against anything that obstructs individual happiness? What you are asking for seems illogical to me.

The way I see it, your group is already too big because it already has you in it, and there is no room for anyone else. The key individual in your proposal is "YOU" which really means waging war against everybody else and using them to empower your happiness at their expense. Good for you, bad for them.

The simple fact that it is a group obstructs each individual and thus must war against itself. Sounds like total confusion to me.

Can you war against a mirror? You are linked to all that is around you and everything you see that you would war against reflects a part of what is inside you that is your battle only and no others. It is not what is happening around you but your response that is the test of your true self.

In any war, the unacceptable losses are always the moral ones. Look there for your greatest battles.

I may very well be wrong, but I believe you have it backwards. You should be waging war against your individual EGO and not against everything else that obstructs it. In that context, a group can help each individual's cause, but not what you purpose.

Don't get me wrong. I am not slamming you. I have been there, and back.

For the cause,

[Dean Plejaren]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfTruth808

a shift in consciousness is ALREADY in the works. Old ways are ALREADY obsolete. The next generation has ALREADY stepped up to the plate. Soon no one will be able to deny us the respect we deserve.

[Dean Plejaren]

Originally Posted by Fun 4U Leader

Dean,
I like your zeal. A strong direct focus is an admiral trait for anyone.

But, do you seriously mean what you are saying, working as a group for individual happiness, waging war against anything that obstructs individual happiness? What you are asking for seems illogical to me.

The way I see it, your group is already too big because it already has you in it, and there is no room for anyone else.

The key individual in your proposal is "YOU" which really means waging war against everybody else and using them to empower your happiness at their expense. Good for you, bad for them.

The simple fact that it is a group obstructs each individual and thus must war against itself. Sounds like total confusion to me.

Can you war against a mirror? You are linked to all that is around you and everything you see that you would war against reflects a part of what is inside you that is your battle only and no others. It is not what is happening around you but your response that is the test of your true self.

In any war, the unacceptable losses are always the moral ones. Look there for your greatest battles.

I may very well be wrong, but I believe you have it backwards. You should be waging war against your individual EGO and not against everything else that obstructs it. In that context, a group can help each individual's cause, but not what you purpose.

Don't get me wrong. I am not slamming you. I have been there, and back.

For the cause,

Interestingly everything you wrote about me. I stand for the opposite of that. No-one owns groups. I do not support ownership of groups. Second there is room for anyone because it's all about them being the leader of themself not about others controlling them. There is no key individual. The war is on what you just assumed about me haha. I'm not fighting people it's about helping them. It's good.

It's not designed to obstruct individuals it's designed to free them. It's about preventing conflict, not making conflict.

I don't know what you mean about unacceptable moral defeats. But it's about having integrity and knowing what works and what doesn't work.

Everyone has an ego but it does not have to be selfish or worthless. Healing and purifying your ego is preferable to trying to attack it.

You have what I stand for very mistaken. I don't know where you got those ideas from.

If the individual is not happy, how can another person be at their expense? That's an illusion. If something is bad for one person how can it be good for another? It is possible to empower the individual through the group and that is the point of a civilized society. What you are suggesting is I am the opposite of everything that is correct. If this is coming from society we know why society is backwards. It calls backwards forwards and forwards backwards.

Why did you twist everything I stood for? I don't understand your motive. You re-structured my entire purpose into something alien. You said you have been there and back. But it does not do anything and either way you have demonstrated we are on very different paths. Maybe the way I said it triggered all manner of misconceptions because of such vastly different experiences. No hard feelings we must be at very different places.

the article i put here is not really related to the topic indeed, i put it because someone mentioned kurt kobain - nirvana.

[Fun 4U Leader]

Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren

Interestingly everything you wrote about me. I stand for the opposite of that. No-one owns groups. I do not support ownership of groups. Second there is room for anyone because it's all about them being the leader of themself not about others controlling them. There is no key individual. The war is on what you just assumed about me haha. I'm not fighting people it's about helping them. It's good.

It's not designed to obstruct individuals it's designed to free them. It's about preventing conflict, not making conflict.

I don't know what you mean about unacceptable moral defeats. But it's about having integrity and knowing what works and what doesn't work.

Everyone has an ego but it does not have to be selfish or worthless. Healing and purifying your ego is preferable to trying to attack it.

You have what I stand for very mistaken. I don't know where you got those ideas from.

If the individual is not happy, how can another person be at their expense? That's an illusion. If something is bad for one person how can it be good for another? It is possible to empower the individual through the group and that is the point of a civilized society. What you are suggesting is I am the opposite of everything that is correct. If this is coming from society we know why society is backwards. It calls backwards forwards and forwards backwards.

Why did you twist everything I stood for? I don't understand your motive. You re-structured my entire purpose into something alien. You said you have been there and back. But it does not do anything and either way you have demonstrated we are on very different paths. Maybe the way I said it triggered all manner of misconceptions because of such vastly different experiences. No hard feelings we must be at very different places.

Dean,
I was hoping that I was mistaken and thanks for clarifying for me. I won't comment point by point because you are clear enough and I obviously misunderstood you.

I wish you well with the group but I must decline to join at this time. I need to look closer at your response and let it sink in for awhile.

The best to you and take care.

for the cause.

[Dean Plejaren]

Cheers I'm glad we have that cleared up. I wasn't sure of your motive I thought I my have to deal with an argument.

One more thing,
I'm not asking you to join anything there is nothing to join but the esoteric movement for Ascension. It's purely verbal and mutual agreements. None of this paper legislation identity represent me in court nonsense. No political parties. No dictatorships or cults. Just increasing acts of Utopia.

[dayzero]

Here's that Drunvalo Mechizadek video....

Let's just wait for the Hopi to write their book!


Nice.


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