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Old 11-09-2008, 12:04 AM   #26
Orion11
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by 371 View Post
That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.
Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

in times of a struggle, which we are cleary in now,
dont we think it would be good to accept a little responsibility ? to help everyone? I dunno, but it seems worth it. unless of course i am totally off on all of this.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:07 AM   #27
clarkkent
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by Orion11 View Post
Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?


having people learn how to use an m16 and obey orders isnt teaching them how to plant or farm or live off the land and be self sufficient, the boy scouts would do a btter job at that.

as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.

if you want forced military service move to switzerland or israel
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:08 AM   #28
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

Ah applause!, hand clapping, and more hand clapping! well said! ORION11
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:12 AM   #29
clarkkent
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by Orion11 View Post

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

i unless of course i am totally off on all of this.
bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:14 AM   #30
Orion11
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

ok, thanks,

see, perhaps i was off..

I should have familiarized myself more with it before commenting,

I shall look more in depth before saying anything else.

Thanks Dan,. Thanks Clark.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:14 AM   #31
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by clarkkent View Post
bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.
iT'S not forced military service, it's civil defense community service, how to help communities in need
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.
The problem is many Americans have the false notion that the world owes them something.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by clarkkent View Post
bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.
That's why it's CIVIL and not MILITARY service. And it doesn't say anything about weapons training.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:17 AM   #34
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by Dantheman62 View Post
iT'S not forced military service, it's civil defense community service, how to help communities in need
Hey Orion11, TrancAm says I have a cold shill around my aura, does it look o.k. to you?
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:24 AM   #35
TranceAm
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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No HaHa, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with working for the man, so to speak, but it's only 3 months and young people are soft these days, they need to get their hands dirty for their community. My aura is nice and warm and fuzzy, oh wait, that's the blanket wrapped around me. lol!
Where do you get that young people are "soft" these days?
I had just one member of my family leave for Iraq in spite of being promised to never being send there... I think with the Info at hand, it is not that intelligent, but "soft" I can't call a man that makes a decision to serve his country. And there are many like him.
Others don't go and serve, are they "soft"? Are they less "Manly"?

"They need to get their hands dirty for their community?"
Where do you get these ideas?

Where is it stated in the contract between Country and Population, that the duties of a United States Citizen is getting dirty hands for their community?
Why is that community sitting on their thumbs and not preparing for any and every thing themselves?
What about politicians not enforcing war or their ideas of "Freedom" on others, so them young clean handed people aren't forced into situations they should never be in?
What about them politicians who want to put everything on the Free Market because that could do the jobs much better? Yes it does everything much better but at a higher price then slaves that can't say no!
And it is sad, when a population has nothing else to offer to the altar of government then their children to slavelabor to get things done.. Or enforcing the cost of their spending habits on the children of their children because they couldn't say no to their government.

"Yes we can" + "Believe in Change"
It is a free country, you can believe in any and everything.
Although according to the first the Government isn't allowed to start a religion!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ...."

Ok, The abyss, is just after that hollow tree to the left.. Just keep going.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:33 AM   #36
Orion11
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

yeah i cant find anything about weapons training...

and.. is it really learning how to "follow orders"?
or
is it
"learning how to lead each other in times of need"?

i really see nothing about military or weapons,

which of course means nothing, but...

its not really so much about doing it for 'them',

it seems more like its about each other.

and... so, say you do get training on how to do all of the above..

does that mean you would use it for the wrong reasons?

Just because someone is being taught something, does not mean they are going to use those teachings for what the teacher(s) intended, good or bad.

I could teach you how to go into the forest use your knife for survival, and how to build fires from anything..
but does that mean your going to go and use all i taught you for those reasons only?
no, you could use those skills for good or for bad.



and most people do know good from bad,
and as surprising as it may seem,

there are many more who want to do good than there are who want to do bad.

and Dan,
you Aura actually does not feel cold... lol

your vibes or your pictures Ive seen,

both have a very warm and inviting Aura from what i can tell.

when it all boils down..
Anything that happens, is up to the people.

we march as billions.


Last edited by Orion11; 11-09-2008 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 11-09-2008, 01:25 AM   #37
ChooseYourLifeNow
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

When I first read this article I thought it was outrageous. Yeah, there are a lot of young people out there who just don't have their priorities in the right place, BUT making them go to away somewhere for 3 months to be "trained" sounds like a brainwashing and indoctrination camp to me.

Not a good idea.

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.
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Old 11-09-2008, 01:29 AM   #38
Orion11
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.
that is a good point.
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Old 11-09-2008, 01:37 AM   #39
Dantheman62
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by ChooseYourLifeNow View Post
When I first read this article I thought it was outrageous. Yeah, there are a lot of young people out there who just don't have their priorities in the right place, BUT making them go to away somewhere for 3 months to be "trained" sounds like a brainwashing and indoctrination camp to me.

Not a good idea.

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.
Yup you're right, no federal involvement would be much better I guess.
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Old 11-09-2008, 01:50 AM   #40
peaceonearth
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

I totally agree with you chooseyourlifenow.
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:28 AM   #41
Rebel4Life
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

I guess you can call this another wake up call to those obamabots.
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:28 AM   #42
recallone
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

I'm a veteran.
I used to be of the mind that every young man (or woman) should join the service after finishing high school. Not any more. I personally joined when I was 17 years old. I had to grow up fast and handle the tasks that were required of me. I learned to follow orders promptly and efficiently. I learned what discipline really means. I also learned how to kill people.

Everyone who joins the service becomes acquainted with an M16, regardless of what their MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) is going to be. They make soldiers in basic training. They create an environment that is difficult, require you to stand at attention while a drill sergeant screams in your face, do push-ups till you drop and keep you in a sleep-deprived state.
The result? A stronger individual who now knows that more is always achievable. The 'stronger' I'm referring to has to do with the mind and spirit, not necessarily physical ability, although that is achieved as well.

If a force was designed to tend to the community in times of need, a large part of that training regimen would almost certainly resemble that of boot camp. The biggest thing, I think - is following orders. A lot of people simply cannot wrap their heads around the idea of following orders without questioning why. If lengthy explanations have to be issued every time orders are issued, the efficiency of the operation would be greatly compromised, whatever the mission. For these reasons, I really can't see how or even why they'd employ some kind of alternate training bereft of firearms. Especially when defense is right there in the title.

Civil Defense? When has this country ever had an occasion to defend itself against a legitimate threat? I'm not talking colonial days, here people. If you think about it, the only threat our communities have ever needed protection against were those forces that were allegedly sent in to help the community on the heels of a natural disaster. And that help came in the form of forced entry into people's homes to disarm them...with force. All the rest were just hyped up threats to keep us vibrating fear...so they could control us better.

I agree that everyone should get accustomed to hard work. Literally getting their hands dirty. Finishing a day of honest hard work and being exhausted is good for you. Whoever you are. It's good for your mind because it shows you how far you can go when you maybe thought you couldn't go any further. And it's good for your body for obvious reasons. Endorsing a plan like this is just foolish in my humble opinion. Just as they've slipped revisions to our constitutional rights by us, they're trying to slip yet another ill-intentioned plan by us. I replied in another thread to the effect of so many in-the-know people allowing themselves to slip back into hypnotic submission during the recent election proceedings - the same thing is happening here.

Sugar-coated anything seems to be good enough for most Americans.
Not this American. Not this human. Not this being of light and love that knows what a government ought to do for its' people.
Serve them. Not the other way around.

I wish you all peace.
recallone
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:40 AM   #43
clarkkent
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:51 AM   #44
Myra
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by ChooseYourLifeNow View Post

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service

197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-...versal-service

---------------------------------------

Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.
Sounds like there's a catch. Three months wouldn't end there. They would already have their Troops trained without a Draft. Sort of a National Guard thing meaning you would always be obligated after training if there were a "National Emergency".

I see a definite Red Flag with this one. I hope they don't implement this because this would be a good reason to expatriate if you have kids.
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Old 11-09-2008, 02:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

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Originally Posted by clarkkent View Post
"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

If this was an idea of the Bush administration it wouldn't change a thing for me. I think this is a good idea, as long as it's VOLUNTARY. Now I know that's not what they're saying but its a proposal and will never pass in it's current form if it ever does at all.

If it was COMPULSORY I'd totally be against it- and yeah I know that's what the proposal says. I'm defending the general civil defense training idea, not this specific proposal to clarify.

And Clark, I DO understand what you're saying. It doesn't say weapons training but it doesn't say bootcamp either. If there was a significant physical aspect to this training you can bet that a good percentage of Americans wouldn't cut it. And this isn't MILITARY training, it's CIVIL. That's what the National Guard are for.

But I think we're debating two different points so I guess it doesn't really matter.

EDIT- BTW I TOTALLY agree with ChooseYourLifeNow that:
Quote:
This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal

Last edited by 371; 11-09-2008 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 11-09-2008, 03:01 AM   #46
Orion11
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkkent View Post
"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.
Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you.
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Old 11-09-2008, 03:21 AM   #47
Operator
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

Hi,

Just to be short: "Basic training ?"
Most ways to force uniformity lead to fascism ... simple as that.

Cheers
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:01 AM   #48
orb
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Default Re: Universal Service for ages 18-25

rephrase: maybe they could be indoctrinated in only one way to handle conflict and taught to kill another person to save themselves.

It is strange that an ET would rather die then get one of us killed on our planet and carry that energy forward into the next incarnation than acutual humans will. And we do not even think they exist.

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I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:10 AM   #49
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rephrase: taught to kill another person to save themselves.
That's human nature. We are animals. Intelligent animals yes, but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.

Not everyone WOULD kill to save themselves. But I doubt anyone really would need to be taught it.
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:20 AM   #50
Operator
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but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.
Bravo, you hit the nail on the head !
That's what BASIC training will do .... Program an expected reaction in certain circumstances.

Cheers
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