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Old 12-29-2008, 07:33 PM   #1
Waterman
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Default You Must Choose Soon!

The hardest part of life today is getting ones head around the fact that life in America is about to change radically. The coming reality seems very surreal and often for things like this, waiting is the hardest part. Many now fret and ask what do we do? Hopefully what I'm going to share in this thread will help at least one person.

As the wall was falling in 1989, I was dropped into a foreign country run by a vicious dictator. My destination that day was the alley of a small village in a country run by a rogue government. When I stepped out of the vehicle and hit the ground with just a backpack, all of a sudden I thought "Oh *&%! this is really happening".

Today I see many parallels between then and what is occurring in America now. Yet, without that drastic contrast I experienced in that alley I too might be like many in America that are in denial. But since I have had that experience I can easily see the frog slowly boiling in water. So, this is a warning, and I writing this to those willing to listen. And the first thing you must do is believe your freedom is under attack. And if history has to write a reason for the loss of our freedoms, however made to happen, it will undoubtedly be laid at the feet of those that lost them. So, this is a dire warning that while you wait for better days your enemy plans to do the opposite.

Just as I saw in eastern European countries, the police have been brained washed and have become the "securiate", in other words one of the major reasons for our loss of freedoms. And when nationalized, the police then become military occupiers enforcing the desires of the dictator. Does this sound familiar. If it smells like a rose......

Under this type of regime it is nothing to have the government turn the electricity off because they want to sell the power to a neighboring country and line their pockets with the money. As it was there, so it is planned for America. And so without warning, the power will be turned off just as they practiced turning it off in New Orleans. Over time, the occupied had grown use to their oppression and when power was turned off they learned to navigate the night with candles that were at the ready. Lighting them as needed, like obedient rats in a maze so they could see to cook and do their daily chores that kept them alive till it was time to sleep.

The corrupted police (securiate) would go to churches, any church, and pick out a man and ask where the "other" meetings were being held. The man they picked could have been just a visitor that day, and if so it was unfortunate, because they would torture him for not knowing the answers. And right there on the spot, they would put his hand in the hinge side of the huge wooden front door of the church and shut the door on his hand.... I met many men whose hands had been mangled by this method of interrogation.

If one was caught in groups larger that 3 people walking down the streets they would arrest them for conspiracy. But people had become use to it, and so they became very quite in their demeanor, holding their heads somewhat down when outside trying not to look at anyone's eyes and especially the “authorities.” Sound familiar? Do you not lurk about not wanting to be caught meeting with other like minded people of the ground crews? This is not to condemn that, it is merely a tap on the back that you are doing the same thing I saw oppressed people do in eastern Europe.

The government told them that all their needs would be met and that the government would give them health care and food. But I witnessed the care the care they provided, I saw the long food lines. I saw the mad rush to the markets when food arrived then watched as 80% of the people got no food and slowly walked away empty handed. Guys, this is not a movie, it is real, and it is really coming to America.

In secret I met and talked with men who were just released from hard labor camps for reading books to teenagers that were on the banned list. They were warning me that if America could not help free the world they feared the entire world would become despotic. In those meetings I was told of the many that died and never returned from those hard labor camps.

So, how do I view our freedoms in America today? I know what they want to do. Do you know? I bet you know the answer don't you? So what shall we do? Let's talk about that.

When women go to self defense classes they are being taught how to think in order to survive. They are taught that if they are ever kidnapped that the kidnappers are taking them somewhere else because what they have in mind can't be done there, and when they arrive at the destination they will probably be raped and even murdered. Now, what should the victim's response be? Learning about the enemy is the beginning of knowing what to do. Knowing the adversary gives us an advantage, as Sun Tzu would say. So, should the lady being kidnapped willingly get into their vehicle while the weapon is in her back?

Why one cooperates with a kidnapper is because they are not thinking clearly about why they are being taken away. The kidnapped cooperate because there is hope things will get better even when the enemy has made it perfectly clear they intend to do harm. So knowing this, what should she do, resist later or immediately? Obviously they are taught to resist immediately like their life depended on it. Because if they will kill you while you are being kidnapped why should we think they won't kill later.

What I'm trying to convey is that you are in the process of being kidnapped. And what I am trying to tell you is that you must do something right now, because waiting won't make things better. Yes, I know you are doing the ground crew thing but you must do more.... you must fight back! Or they will drag your passive resistive butts off to the hard labor camps!

About now you might have many questions about this. And one of those questions might be, “just how Joe six pack” is this guy that is telling me to do more. Unfortunately that shouldn't matter, but for some it does, so just in case I will tell you more about me. I'm a pre-med and nursing professor, with 20 years of clinical experience, having had various consulting assignments including research on the West Nile virus, and currently have been asked to help out with an outbreak of trichothecene mycotoxin. Of personal interest I've participated in non medical related research such as NASA's project Stardust through Berkley Univ., and other projects asking amateur astronomers to help identify new galaxies. Now that I've opened that zipper I hope it gives you a better perspective to understand what I have just written.

Let what I've said sink deeply into your being, and understand that you have the high moral ground to begin fighting back immediately! You know deep down where they are dragging you off to. And hoping things will get better is ignoring that knife in your back....

What needs to be done needs serious thought so that there is no question why later.....because it is the deep breath before the battle, and the dark before the dawn, and you must choose wisely!
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

do you really think that things are that desperate, waterman? if so, i'm really glad to live hours away from the city. i feel ddeply for those that do have to live in and near cities. i think about it everytime i log in to one of these sites. the ptb certainly know what's going on in these forums and i'm sure they don't like it. i'm certain that they would sooner have us ignorant.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:58 PM   #3
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I say theres about 6 months till the absolute 'choose' time hits people four square between the eyes. I am planning on being out of the cities for the entire august / september time frame.

The USA is even closer to a 'line in the sand' moment than we are in the UK. Its not looking pretty. Hence I send love, light and the Egg to all true patriots.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpaganfreak View Post
do you really think that things are that desperate, waterman? if so, i'm really glad to live hours away from the city. i feel ddeply for those that do have to live in and near cities. i think about it everytime i log in to one of these sites. the ptb certainly know what's going on in these forums and i'm sure they don't like it. i'm certain that they would sooner have us ignorant.
When you live in Southern California in the US, yes right now things are looking pretty desperate. It's in your face down here.

The bad thing about it is that many people here are so brainwashed they don't see it.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

When you play the "choice" game, you're playing their game.

Choice is about "us" and "them".

The sooner we get to the place where there is only "us", The sooner "they" are left shadow boxing to no effect.

"They" can only win if "we" play.

It's like the AI computer concluded in the movie war games: "the only way to win, is to not play".

We're all one, so why sit here poking ourselves in the eye?
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:17 AM   #6
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You aren't participating? Your answer to the problem is not an answer. I bet you pay your bills, grocery shop, pay utilities or buy gas, with Canadian money...... If you don't then that is great.... if so then you are participating and don't even know it...
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:36 AM   #7
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I think the time for sitting on the sidelines is over folks. The patriots that won freedom for the US were willing to give their lives...their families...their land...everything they knew to give their children and your children a chance to be free. I'm sorry it got sold out by greedy men we put our trust in but that's over and someone sat on the sidelines and watched us get sold out...and did nothing. Nothing is no longer an option. I love it when Dr Bill Deagle said he and his family was threatened if he divulged what he knew....He looked the guy in the eye told HIM what he was going to do or Deagle would take him and HIS family out. The sword swings both ways....never forget.

RISE OF THE SOUL
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

I hear what you are saying waterman and I know you tell the truth. I haven't been able to get my family to believe in any of this and it's really hard for me as I already went through the whole depression time over all of this. I live too close to the city and I really have no place to head out as I would be going alone and I will never make it. I hate making excuses but there is nothing more I can do as I am only one. I tried talking to my neighbors and surely they all just turn their heads now when I walk outside. LOL I just pray hard for peace and a quick death as that is what I see ahead. What will be will be !

What choices do some of us really have? I live near the cities and my family is outside the cities. They just don't buy any of this. I can't seem to drive it in their heads and honestly I won't leave them to venture off on my own.

So although we have choices, does it really matter? I pray the whole world will wake up and stop this.

When I read stories about what is happening with the aliens, I cringe as I know that all we have going for us is love and peace. Fighting the FBI,CIA,police and FEMA and the government. Can it be done? Seems to me it's been happening for years now, whats new is that it's coming to America, or has it been here all along and we just didn't see it happening until now? Too many people and children missing in our country. It's getting worse

What a cruel hoax our lives have been Such a waste of a beautiful place such as earth.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:55 AM   #9
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I want you to remember that no ******* ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ******* die for his country." - General Patton

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -- Henry Thoreau

My friends. There is action, also known as brownian movement. Then there is effective action. Before one
acts. It is wise to make sure that your action is effective,
for you will not likely get a second chance.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:03 AM   #10
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Default Battle of Athens Tennessee August 1946

The Battle of Athens
2 AUGUST 1946
I. Introduction

On 2 August 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest, open elections. For years they had asked for state or Federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud -- forged ballots, secret ballot counts, and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies -- by the local political boss. They got no help.

These Americans' absolute refusal to knuckle-under had been hardened by service in World War II. Having fought to free other countries from murderous regimes, they rejected vicious abuse by their county government. These Americans had a choice. Their state's Constitution - Article 1, Section 26 - recorded their right to keep and bear arms for the common defense. Few "gun control" laws had been enacted.
II. The Setting

These Americans were Tennesseeans of McMinn County, located between Chattanooga and Knoxville, in Eastern Tennessee. The two main towns were Athens and Etowah.

McMinn Countians had long been independent political thinkers. They also had long:

* accepted bribe-taking by politicians and/or the Sheriff to overlook illicit whiskey-making and gambling;
* financed the sheriff's department from fines - usually for speeding or public drunkenness - which promoted false arrests;
* put up with voting fraud by both Democrats and Republicans.

Tennessee State law barred voting fraud:

* ballot boxes had to be shown to be empty before voting;
* poll-watchers had to be allowed;
* armed law enforcement officers were barred from polling places;
* ballots had to be counted where any voter could watch.

III. The Circumstances

The Great Depression had ravaged McMinn County. Drought broke many farmers; workforces shrank. The wealthy Cantrell family, of Etowah, backed Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1932 election, hoping New Deal programs would revive the local economy and help Democrats to replace Republicans in the county government. So it proved.

Paul Cantrell was elected Sheriff in the 1936, 1938, and 1940 elections, but by slim margins. The Sheriff was the key County official. Cantrell was elected to the State Senate in 1942 and 1944; his chief deputy, Pat Mansfield, was elected sheriff. In 1946, Paul Cantrell again sought the Sheriff's office.
IV. World War II Ends; Paul Cantrell's Troubles Begin

At end-1945, some 3,000 battle-hardened veterans returned to McMinn County. Sheriff Mansfield's deputies had brutalized many in McMinn County; the GIs held Cantrell politically responsible for Mansfield's doings. Early in 1946, some newly-returned ex-GIs decided:

* to challenge Cantrell politically;
* to offer an all ex-GI, non-partisan ticket;
* to promise a fraud-free election.

In ads and speeches the GI candidates promised:

* an honest ballot count;
* reform of county government.

At a rally, a GI speaker said, "'The principals that we fought for in this past war do not exist in McMinn County. We fought for democracy because we believe in democracy but not the form we live under in this county.'" (Daily Post-Athenian, 17 June 1946, p. 1).

At end-July 1946, 159 McMinn County GIs petitioned the FBI to send election monitors. There was no response. The Department of Justice had not responded to McMinn Countians' complaints of election fraud in 1940, 1942, and 1944.
V. From Ballots to Bullets

The election was held on 1 August. To intimidate voters, Mansfield brought in some 200 armed "deputies". GI poll-watchers were beaten almost at once. At about 3 p.m., Tom Gillespie, an African-American voter, was told by a Sheriff's deputy, "'******, you can't vote here today!!'". Despite being beaten, Gillespie persisted; the enraged deputy shot him. The gunshot drew a crowd. Rumors spread that Gillespie had been "shot in the back"; he later recovered. (C. Stephen Byrum, The Battle of Athens; Paidia Productions, Chattanooga TN, 1987; pp. 155-57).

Other deputies detained ex-GI poll-watchers in a polling place, as that made the ballot count "public". A crowd gathered. Sheriff Mansfield told his deputies to disperse the crowd. When the two ex-GIs smashed a big window and escaped, the crowd surged forward. "The deputies, with guns drawn, formed a tight half-circle around the front of the polling place. One deputy, "his gun raised high ...shouted: 'You sons-of-bitches cross this street and I'll kill you!'" (Byrum, p. 165).

Mansfield took the ballot boxes to the jail for counting. The deputies seemed to fear immediate attack, by the "people who had just liberated Europe and the South Pacific from two of the most powerful war machines in human history." (Byrum, pp. 168-69).

Short of firearms and ammunition, the GIs scoured the county to find them. By borrowing keys to the National Guard and State Guard Armories, they got three M-1 rifles, five .45 semi-automatic pistols, and 24 British Enfield rifles. The armories were nearly empty after the war's end.

By eight p.m., a group of GIs and "local boys" headed for the jail to get the ballot boxes. They occupied high ground facing the jail but left the back door unguarded to give the jail's defenders an easy way out.
VI. The Battle of Athens

Three GIs - alerting passersby to danger - were fired on from the jail. Two GIs were wounded. Other GIs returned fire. Those inside the jail mainly used pistols; they also had a "tommy gun" (a .45 caliber Thompson sub-machine gun).

Firing subsided after 30 minutes: ammunition ran low and night had fallen. Thick brick walls shielded those inside the jail. Absent radios, the GIs' rifle fire was un-coordinated. "From the hillside, fire rose and fell in disorganized cascades. More than anything else, people were simply 'shooting at the jail'." (Byrum, p. 189).

Several who ventured into "no man's land", the street in front of the jail, were wounded. One man inside the jail was badly hurt; he recovered. Most sheriff's deputies wanted to hunker down and await rescue. Governor McCord mobilized the State Guard, perhaps to scare the GIs into withdrawing. The State Guard never went to Athens. McCord may have feared that Guard units filled with ex-GIs might not fire on other ex-GIs.

At about 2 a.m. on 2 August, the GIs forced the issue. Men from Meigs county threw dynamite sticks and damaged the jail's porch. The panicked deputies surrendered. GIs quickly secured the building. Paul Cantrell faded into the night, almost having been shot by a GI who knew him, but whose .45 pistol had jammed. Mansfield's deputies were kept overnight in jail for their own safety. Calm soon returned: the GIs posted guards. The rifles borrowed from the armory were cleaned and returned before sun-up.
VII. The Aftermath: Restoring Democracy in McMinn County

In five precincts free of vote fraud, the GI candidate for Sheriff, Knox Henry, won 1,168 votes to Cantrell's 789. Other GI candidates won by similar margins.

The GIs did not hate Cantrell. They only wanted honest government. On 2 August, a town meeting set up a three-man governing committee. The regular police having fled, six men were chosen to police Athens; a dozen GIs were sent to police Etowah. In addition, "Individual citizens were called upon to form patrols or guard groups, often led by a GI. ...To their credit, however, there is not a single mention of an abuse of power on their behalf." (Byrum, p. 220).

Once the GI candidates' victory had been certified, they cleaned-up county government:

* the jail was fixed;
* newly-elected officials accepted a $5,000 pay limit;
* Mansfield supporters who resigned, were replaced.

The general election on 5 November passed quietly. McMinn Countians, having restored the Rule of Law, returned to their daily lives. Pat Mansfield moved back to Georgia. Paul Cantrell set up an auto dealership in Etowah. "Almost everyone who knew Cantrell in the years after the 'Battle' agree that he was not bitter about what had happened." (Byrum, pp. 232-33; see also New York Times, 9 August 1946, p. 8).
VIII. The Outsiders' Response

The Battle of Athens made national headlines. Most outsiders' reports had the errors usual in coverage of large-scale, night-time events. A New York Times editorialist on 3 August savaged the GIs, who:

"...quite obviously - though we hope erroneously - felt that there was no city, county, or State agency to whom they could turn for justice.

... "There is a warning for all of us in the occurrence...and above all a warning for the veterans of McMinn County, who also violated a fundamental principle of democracy when they arrogated to themselves the right of law enforcement for which they had no election mandate. Corruption, when and where it exists, demands reform, and even in the most corrupt and boss-ridden communities there are peaceful means by which reform can be achieved. But there is no substitute, in a democracy, for orderly process." (NYT, 3 Aug 1946, p. 14.)

The editorialist did not see:

* McMinn Countians' many appeals for outside help;
* some ruthless people only respect force;
* that it was wrong to equate use of force by evil-doers (Cantrell and Mansfield) with the righteous (the GIs).

The New York Times:

* never saw that Cantrell and Mansfield's wholesale election fraud, enforced at gun-point, trampled the Rule of Law;
* feared citizens' restoring the Rule of Law by armed force.

Other outsiders, e.g., Time and Newsweek, agreed. (See Time, 12 August 1946, p. 20; Newsweek, 12 Aug 1946, p. 31 and 9 September 1946, p. 38).

The 79th Congress adjourned on 2 August 1946, when the Battle of Athens ended. However, Representative John Jennings, Jr., from Tennessee decried:

* McMinn County's sorry situation under Cantrell and Mansfield;
* the Justice Department's repeated failures to help the McMinn Countians.

Jennings was delighted that "...at long last decency and honesty, liberty and law have returned to the fine county of McMinn...". (Congressional Record, House; U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., 1946; Appendix, Volume 92, Part 13, p. A4870.)
IX. The Lessons of Athens

Those who took up arms in Athens, Tennessee:

* wanted honest elections, a cornerstone of our Constitutional order;
* had repeatedly tried to get Federal or State election monitors;
* used armed force so as to minimize harm to the law-breakers;
* showed little malice to the defeated law-breakers;
* restored lawful government.

The Battle of Athens clearly shows:

* how Americans can and should lawfully use armed force;
* why the Rule of Law requires unrestricted access to firearms;
* how civilians with military-type firearms can beat the forces of "law and order".

Dictators believe that public order is more important than the Rule of Law. However, Americans reject this idea. Criminals can exploit for selfish ends, the use armed force to restore the Rule of Law. But brutal political repression - as practiced by Cantrell and Mansfield - is lethal to many. An individual criminal can harm a handful of people. Governments alone can brutalize thousands, or millions.

Since 1915, officials of seven governments "gone bad" have committed genocide, murdering at least 56 million persons, including millions of children. "Gun control" clears the way for genocide by giving governments "gone bad" far greater freedom to commit mass murder.

Law-abiding McMinn Countians won the Battle of Athens because they were not hamstrung by "gun control". McMinn Countians showed us when citizens can and should use armed force to support the Rule of Law. We are all in their debt.

This is a bare bones summary of a major report in JPFO's Firearms Sentinel (January 1995). To learn how the gutsy people of Athens, Tennessee did the Framers of the Constitution proud, send $3 to JPFO, 2872 South Wentworth Avenue; Milwaukee, WI 53207; and request the January 1995 Firearms Sentinel. This document is from: chiliast@ideasign.com (A.K. Pritchard)

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 12-30-2008 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:48 AM   #11
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Too much self-preservation **** in here, pushed by people who are still deluded enough to believe that we were ever free. Only a fool believes that this country was ever free.

Yes, worry about YOU while your family starves to death because they can't "see the light" and other goddman cliches like you can.

I don't care what happens to me as long as the ones I love are protected and provided for.

Let it all fall apart. I'm prepared to scavenge and survive.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:49 AM   #12
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In March of 1775, attorney Patrick Henry, rode into the small town of Culpepper, Virginia. As he rode into the town square, he was completely shocked by what he witnessed. There, in the middle of the square, was a man tied to a whipping post, his back laid bare, with bones exposed. He had been scourged mercilessly, with whips laced with metal. When they stopped beating him, Patrick Henry could plainly see the bones of his rib cage. He turned to ask someone in the crowd, "What has the man done to deserve such a beating as this?" The reply given him was that the man being scourged was a minister. He was one of twelve preachers, locked in jail, because they refused to take the king's license to preach the gospel.

The governor was under orders from King George to compel all preachers to take the license. While being tried, without the benefit of a jury, the minister stated, "I will never submit to taking your license. I am controlled by the Holy Spirit, and authorized by God Almighty, and will not allow you to control me by a license, no matter what you may do to me." Three days later, he was scourged to death, and such was the fate of the other ministers, as well. This was the incident that sparked Patrick Henry to write the famous words, which later became the rallying cry of the American Revolution,

"What is it that the gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to purchase at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"


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Old 12-30-2008, 05:53 AM   #13
Stargazer1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntruthseeker View Post
I hear what you are saying waterman and I know you tell the truth. I haven't been able to get my family to believe in any of this and it's really hard for me as I already went through the whole depression time over all of this. I live too close to the city and I really have no place to head out as I would be going alone and I will never make it. I hate making excuses but there is nothing more I can do as I am only one. I tried talking to my neighbors and surely they all just turn their heads now when I walk outside. LOL I just pray hard for peace and a quick death as that is what I see ahead. What will be will be !

What choices do some of us really have? I live near the cities and my family is outside the cities. They just don't buy any of this. I can't seem to drive it in their heads and honestly I won't leave them to venture off on my own.

So although we have choices, does it really matter? I pray the whole world will wake up and stop this.

When I read stories about what is happening with the aliens, I cringe as I know that all we have going for us is love and peace. Fighting the FBI,CIA,police and FEMA and the government. Can it be done? Seems to me it's been happening for years now, whats new is that it's coming to America, or has it been here all along and we just didn't see it happening until now? Too many people and children missing in our country. It's getting worse

What a cruel hoax our lives have been Such a waste of a beautiful place such as earth.


One person can ...most definitely...make a difference...Rise of the SOUL
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:12 AM   #14
mntruthseeker
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Oh yes I love that video Stargazer.

I will put up a fight as in my mind when they come for me, they will have to drag me out as I will not be quiet. I hope for a fast resolution at my home.

I think that the work that waterman does is simply fantastic. I know he is telling the truth.

We have a better chance of fighting this for the 1000 years of peace that I would love more than anything to stick around and be a part of ! This is the idea that I continue to pray for.

My luck is that damn tank would just run me down. LOL
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:14 AM   #15
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An Inquiry into the General Lack of Violent Jewish Resistance to the Holocaust

by Ian McCollum

The Holocaust brings to mind visions of docile and helpless Jews being led to their demise in gas chambers, not visions of determined Jews fighting to defend their homes against German aggressors. Why is this? Why did six million Jews allow themselves to be slaughtered like so many sheep? Did they really just submit to the Germans’ orders? The answer, sadly, is yes * the number of violent, planned Jewish revolts against the Nazis can almost be counted on one hand. It is true that many Jews attempted to evade the Germans through passive means * by hiding, adopting new identities, or fleeing * but when they were caught, the vast majority gave up and went meekly to the camps. One must wonder, why did so few resort to violence to save themselves?

For a Jew caught up in the Holocaust, there were many factors to consider when deciding on a course of action. For an individual considering armed, violent resistance, these included:

* Concern for family members and dependants * all those close to a fighter wouldd be put at risk by his (or her) actions.
* Access to arms * how is one to fight the Germans? Some sort of weapon is necessary, and would have to be acquired.
* Hope for an easy solution * many believed that their situation would be resolved by itself, and thus to risks one’s life fighting was needless.
* Respected leadership * from both a practical and psychological view, fighting back required leaders to organize and encourage individuals.
* Motivation * be it survival, revenge, or informing the world of the Nazi actions, a goal was essential for a would-be fighter.

By investigating the relative importance of these factors in several instances of armed Jewish resistance, it should become clearer what was required for the average victim to resort to violence.

Cases Under Investigation

The Vilna ghetto. After the first major Aktion in Vilna, the idea of armed resistance spread among youth Zionist groups and Communist groups. They formed an anti-Fascist federation (The FPO, or United Partisans Organization) with the express goal of defending the ghetto against a final liquidation, and at their peak had 300 fighters. When the final liquidations began on September 1, 1943 the FPO issued a general call to arms, but it was completely ignored by the population of the ghetto. After one brief exchange of fire with German troops, the FPO decided to evacuate the ghetto and join partisans in the forests.

The Warsaw ghetto. The best-known example of violent Jewish resistance is the Warsaw ghetto uprising. When mass deportations (300,000 victims total, taken to Treblinka) took place in Warsaw in July and August of 1942, young Jewish activists created the ZOB (Jewish Fighting Organization). Eight months later, when the final liquidation of the ghetto began they held off the Germans for more than a month with firearms and homemade bombs. In the end, the entire ghetto was demolished in an effort to defeat them. Most died, but a few escaped through Warsaw’s sewer system into the forests.

The Treblinka death camp. While Treblinka had no large-scale forced labor program like Auschwitz, the Germans kept about 1200 Jews there to run and maintain the camp. The performed duties such as emptying gas chambers of corpses, moving and burning corpses, maintaining camp buildings, and the like. Having nothing to lose, they organized a plan for revolt. On August 2, 1942 they put their plan into action, shooting guards and lighting the camp aflame. About 300 managed to escape the camp, and about 70 survived to the end of the war. After the revolt, Treblinka never functioned again.

The Sobibor death camp. The situation of Sobibor was similar to that of Treblinka. While Sobibor existed solely to execute Jews, there was a contingent of prisoners kept alive to run the camp. In July 1943 a group of Russian POWs were added to the camp staff. These ex-soldiers were experienced in fighting, and in cooperation with the Polish Jews who knew the ins and outs of the camp, they created a plan to steal weapons form the Germans and revolt. Their uprising took place on October 14, 1943 with mixed results. Several hundred prisoners escaped to the forests, but only about 40 survived the rest of the war. As with Treblinka, the Germans shut down the camp completely in the wake of the revolt.

Concern for Dependants

One of the most significant factors that could keep a Jew from fighting back against his Nazi oppressors was a concern for those dependent on him. As a general rule, Jews came into the ghettos as families. As a result, those most able to fight * the young adult and middle-aged men * very often had wives, children, parents, or grandparents with them whom they felt a responsibility to. Those best suited to fight were also best suited to work, and because of the scarcity of food in the ghettos, their families were dependent on fit workers to keep from starving. For example, according to ghetto statisticians the Warsaw ghetto (at the peak of its population) had 550,000 inhabitants, only 27,000 of whom were gainfully employed.(1) Without the extra food that could be attained by a working family member, many families would be unable to survive. The result was that the few groups willing to fight that did form were almost exclusively composed of youth in their teens or early twenties. They were young enough to not have dependent families, but old enough to be effective fighters. In both Warsaw and Vilna, the main resistance groups were alliances of political activist youth groups, both Zionists and Communists.

While this concern for the well-being of family members was an important issue for the Jews in ghettos, it was no factor at all for Jews farther along in the Nazi system. The usual fate of a Jew in a ghetto was deportation to an extermination camp and death in a gas chamber. The Jews who were used to run these extermination camps had already seen their families murdered (either in the gas chambers or in other places months earlier), and had no such inhibitions about fleeing the camps. There was a similar deterrent to revolt in the camps though * collective responsibility. Camp policies held that in the case of escape or resistance by an individual Jew, the entire camp would be punished, often through summary executions of a large number of prisoners. However, this did not do much to hinder revolt plans. If anything, it may have encouraged the fighters to make foolproof plans to allow as many prisoners as possible to escape, as it was obvious that upon revolt, all the prisoners would be targets for the guards’ rifles.

Access to Arms

Weapons were an essential element in all violent resistance to the Nazis * to prevail against the Germans, some sort of weaponry was required. The Germans, of course, forbade the Jews to possess weapons under threat of death * but even in the harshest of environments willing fighters were able to acquire weapons.

The type of weaponry used by Jewish fighters varied depending on their environment. In the Vilna and Warsaw ghettos, Jewish resistance groups planned to defend the ghetto and drive out German police and military units. In the Treblinka and Sobibor death camps however, the fighters simply wanted to escape and flee. As a result, the ghetto fighters needed weaponry that could be used in a sustained fight * rifles, crew-served machine guns, mines, and the like. In an April 23 letter to Yitzhak Zuckerman, Mordechai Anielewicz (the most prominent leader of the revolt) explained that "...the pistol has no value, we practically don’t use it. We need grenades, rifles, machine guns, and explosives."(2) The main sources of weapons for the ghettos were smugglers who bought them from local peasants and sneaked them into the ghettos.(3) Many handguns and some rifles were obtained in this manner. Another source was the local partisan units, but they usually refused to supply any weaponry to the Jews. The weapons they ended up with were not ideal, but the were enough to fight with. In addition to firearms they were able to smuggle into the ghetto, the Warsaw fights also had a large number of Molotov cocktails (homemade incendiary bombs), which they had manufactured inside the ghetto. Once fighting broke out in Warsaw, the fighters were able to augment their stores with weapons and ammunition taken from dead Germans, including at least one belt-fed machine gun. The resistance in the Vilna Ghetto used similar techniques to attain weapons. As well as buying arms from Polish Gentiles, they also stole a significant number of firearms and grenades from local German units where Jews were employed.

The fighters in the death camps were not planning to engage in drawn-out fighting, and as a result they were more flexible in what sort of weapons they wanted. The main sources in both Treblinka and Sobibor were, surprisingly, the German armories. In Treblinka, the prisoners were able to acquire a copy of the key to the armory, and stole a large number of rifles and grenades, which were distributed to the prisoners before the revolt broke out. Another weapon used to great effect at Treblinka was fire. The prisoners had surreptitiously doused the camp buildings in gasoline and oil, and when the revolt began, they set alight virtually the entire camp, adding greatly to the confusion and distracting the guards. At Sobibor, the prisoners were not able to get firearms before acting, but were able to revolt despite this. They began be killing several SS officers with knives and hatchets, and taking their firearms and storming the camp armory, where they acquired a number of rifles and were able to engage the guards and escape.

In all of these cases, weapons were an essential element of revolt, and nowhere were the Jews armed to begin with. However, despite the brutal Nazi control of the ghettos and camps, Jewish prisoners were regularly able to acquire the weaponry they needed. The need for weaponry was an obstacle to revolt, but a clearly surmountable one.

Hope for an Easy Solution

For a Jew in the Holocaust, the decision to fight back against the Germans was no easy one * it meant abandoning all hope for German mercy and accepting great immediate personal risk. The desire to place their faith in German humanity was very strong among the Jews, although it did decline as they made their way through the extermination process.

In the absence of detailed, confirmed information about their fates, Jews in the ghettos refused to believe that their situation was worth fighting for. Since the Germans would not possibly plan to murder all the Jews, they were better off obeying German authority and thereby avoiding extra reprisals. General Bor-Komorowski, of the Polish underground army, wrote after the war about an incident when, having learned exactly what Treblinka (the destination of deported Warsaw Jews) was, his partisans offered the mainstream Jewish leadership weapons, ammunition, and aid. Their response typifies the common Jewish faith in their German overlords: (4)

The Jewish leaders, however, rejected the offer, arguing that if they behaved quietly the Germans might deport and murder 20,000 or 30,000, perhaps even 60,000 of them, but it was inconceivable that they should destroy the lot; while if they resisted, the Germans would certainly do so.

So long as a person held this view (or similar ones, like believing that the Germans were dependent on the Jews for labor), revolt was out of the question. The only cure for this ignorance of the true German intentions was information. In this area, many of the youth organizations held a crucial advantage * they already had a network of colleagues in other ghettos through which they could share information via courier. These groups were able to acquire information about German actions across Poland, and synthesize them into a sufficiently accurate overview of the Final Solution. This information made it clear that passive obedience would have devastating consequences, and its importance in their planning can hardly be overstated.

As a general rule, the rest of the general Jewish population of the ghettos either were unaware of German plans, or had seen little enough evidence that they were capable of denying it to themselves. In the Vilna ghetto, this ignorance and denial among the populace never ended. The main resistance group in Vilna, the FPO, had been planning their defense of the ghetto for almost two years, and when the Germans finally sealed the ghetto to liquidate it, they issued a call-to-arms for the populace. "The hand of the hangman will fall upon every person. Flight and cowardice will not save life! Only armed resistance can save our lives and honor. ..."(5) Sadly, the Jews of Vilna continued to cling to their belief in German benevolence, and there was no response to the FPO’s cry for action. The resistance fighters, knowing that their numbers were too small to be effective without community support, scrapped their plans and fled to the forests to join up with partisan groups.

The Jews of the Warsaw ghetto had an entirely different reaction to the attempted liquidation of their ghetto. Unlike Vilna (with ~40,000 inhabitants at its peak and several small deportations), the Warsaw ghetto housed several hundred thousand Jews, and got a harsh introduction to German plans when over seven weeks from July until September 1942 some 265,000 Jews were deported. This rapid, gargantuan deportation broke the illusions of many inhabitants. The resistance organizations in Warsaw (Mordechai Anielewicz’ ZOB is the best know, but by no means was the only such group) had many more fighters than the groups in Vilna. In addition, the general population of the Warsaw ghetto sympathized and cooperated with the fighters. After the outbreak of fighting on April 19, many residents who were not members of resistance groups desired to fight, but had no weapons due to a lack of preparation.

The Jews who had been deported from their home or ghettoes and were imprisoned in death camps had no illusions whatsoever about the German plans. They watched day after day as trainloads of their fellow Jews were slaughtered * in such an environment they had no misconceptions about their fates.

Respected Leadership

Any sort of organized mass action requires effective leadership, and the armed Jewish revolts during the Holocaust were no exception. The leadership of a revolt was needed for a variety of reasons * to organize sources of money and arrange for its use in purchasing firearms and ammunition, to divide the fighters into units and coordinate their actions, and to give the revolt the legitimacy needed to attract participants. These may seem like daunting tasks, but none of the example revolts suffered from a lack of adequate leadership. Because of their physical concentration, the Jews in captivity nearly always had capable leaders and respected personalities close at hand.

The revolts in the death camps of Treblinka and Sobibor are excellent examples of flexible and spontaneous leadership. The revolts were planned by small groups which were formed for the sole purpose of escaping the camps. There were no rivalries over titles, positions, money, of power (as none of these things existed for the prisoners) and this made for very effective and cooperative planners despite the hardships of their environment. These planning groups were also able to endure the loss of key members without fragmenting. For example, one of the major figures in the Treblinka revolt * Dr. Julian Chorazycki, a well-known medical doctor and former army officer * was caught by an SS guard with a pocket full of money (750,000 zlotys intended for use buying firearms). He took poison and died to avoid being interrogated, and the revolt planning didn’t miss a beat, as another man stepped up to take his place.

Much of the leadership for the ghetto revolts was actually in existence long before the ghettos were even created. The backbones of the ghetto fighting groups were formed by political youth groups, primarily Zionists and Communists. These groups had organized and effective leadership hierarchies before the war and when the decision to form fighting groups was made, the leadership elements of the groups merged fairly easily. For most of the ghetto fighters, their leaders were well known, trusted, and respected from the very beginning.

Leadership for Jewish revolts was an essential element, but not a difficult one to fulfill. In most cases, the necessary leadership already existed or was easily found.

Motivation

Very few people will risk their lives fighting without a good reason, and without some motivating purpose, attempts at Jewish resistance would have been abortive. As with quality leadership, this necessary component of resistance was easily satisfied. The motivations varied with the fighters, but in a testament to the resilience of the human spirit, there were very few Jews who were unwilling to fight when the other necessary conditions were met. For many in the death camps, the compelling issue was a desire to survive so they could bear witness to the Nazi atrocities. To quote Jankiel Wiernik, a participant and survivor of the Treblinka revolt, from the beginning of his report on Treblinka, which was published clandestinely in Warsaw in May 1944 after the revolt: (6)

It seems as if I were carrying the load of a hundred centuries on my shoulders. The load is wearisome, very wearisome, but for the time being I must bear it. I want to bear it, and bear it I must. I, who witnessed the doom of three generations, must keep on living for the sake of the future. The whole world must be told of the infamy of those barbarians, so that centuries and generations to come may execrate them.

Other prisoners expressed similar reasons for fighting. Zelda Metz, a typical survivor of the Sobibor revolt, described her motivation candidly: "We wanted to escape and to tell the world about the crimes of Sobibor."(7)

The other major motivating factor for death camp inmates was a desire for simple revenge upon the perpetrators of the Holocaust. Simha Bialowitz, a survivor of Sobibor, is quite frank about his motivation: "We were obsessed with the idea of avenging our dead and killing the SS … The day after the escape, we were glad to watch the procession of cars carrying the coffins of the murdered Nazis of Sobibor."(8) Another Sobibor survivor, Hella Fellenbaum-Weiss, recalls being given the will to survive by finding Yiddish notes in the pockets of slain Jews brought to Sobibor from Belzec which read "We are told we are on our way to work. It is a lie. Avenge us."(9)

For Jews in the ghettos, the strategy of how to fight the Germans was different from that of the death camps, but the basic motivations were the same. The Jews in the ghettos had the luxury of fighting for principles as well, instead of bare survival as in the death camps. The essence of the general motivation in the ghettos was expressed well by Hirsh Berlinski, one of the organizers of the Warsaw ghetto uprising: (10)

Even if the deported are really settled in labour camps, 75 per cent of them are bound to die. Therefore, in one way or another deportation means annihilation. It is therefore better to die with dignity and not like hunted animals. There is no other way out, all that remains to us is to fight. Even if we are capable of putting up a fight that will only resemble real fighting, it will still be better than a passive acceptance of slaughter.

Not surprisingly, motivation for Jewish resistance was quite easy to find. Lack of motivation was never a problem for potential violent revolts.

Conclusions

Clearly, there were a number of reasons behind the general lack of Jewish violent resistance to the Holocaust. Some, however, were much more significant than others.

One major factor in the ghettos was a concern among potential fighters for the wellbeing of dependant family members. There were surely many Jewish men and women who would have been willing to fight the Germans, if they had been confident that their families could survive their actions. In the death camps, families were a subject of mourning, not continuous concern. Virtually all inmates of the camps had seen their families murdered or heard of their murder. Having no loved ones left, these prisoners were not hindered in their actions by such concerns.

Another critical element to resistance was weaponry. The cases investigated suggest that Jews were consistently able to obtain firearms, no matter their situation. A variety of sources were utilized, and the weapons were not always optimal * but they were enough to do the job in every case. A lack of armaments is not likely to have squelched any attempted revolts in ghettos, although it was probably a greater factor in death camp revolts. Getting arms took time in any environment, and prisoners in the camps generally did not survive long. It is likely that one or more conceived camp revolts failed because the conspirators perished before they were able to acquire weapons for their revolt.

Information was a vital element for any revolt. Without an understanding of the true risks they faced, Jewish individuals were not willing to risk their lives by fighting back against the Germans. For a large majority of the people, it was likely a lack of comprehension of the situation that prevented resistance. The desire to place trust in the Germans and take the easy path of obedience was very strong in most Jews. Only in the face of the most blatant German actions, such as the mass deportations from Warsaw and the cremations in the death camps were potential fighters able to understand that obedience would not lead to salvation.

For Jews in both ghettos and death camps, effective leadership was a necessary element of coordinated resistance, but an element which was fairly simple to obtain. Leaders were generally in good supply and very devoted to their tasks. It is very unlikely that any would-be revolt failed for a lack of leadership.

Without a motivation to fight, armed resistance was not possible. In both the ghettos and camps, however, motivations were plentiful * be it for the sake of revenge, survival, or informing the world, most Jews had a reason to fight. Motivation was almost certainly not an element missing from any potential resistance.

Epilogue: Did Armed Resistance Ease the Plight of the Jews?

As with all major events in history, historians of the present look back on the Holocaust and try to assess whether the actions taken by those involved were good or bad, and how the outcomes could have been changed. Such inquiries are not mere intellectual exercises; they are one of humanity’s best resources for learning how best to act in present and future situations. With this in mind, and knowing that genocide is an ongoing problem in today’s world, one looks to the Holocaust to provide lessons on how to behave when the next genocide occurs.

Two controversial and under-addressed questions are the morality and effectiveness of violent resistance to genocide. Because violence is generally viewed as synonymous with crime and chaos, the fact that violence can save lives is often ignored or forgotten. The Holocaust provides several compelling examples of such salvation through violence. The death camp of Belzec operated without significant hindrance until it was closed for a lack of victims to burn * after engulfing an estimated 600,000 victims.(11) After its final trainload of deportees was gassed and cremated, the Jewish staff laborers were shot dead * to this day, only a handful of prisoners are known to have escaped Belzec alive. One significant difference between Belzec and its sister death camp, Treblinka, is that the killing at Treblinka ceased long before it ran out of victims. The prisoners of Treblinka rose up with arms and were able to escape and burn most of the camp to the ground. Not only were several score of prisoners able to survive to fight on as partisans and bear witness of their tribulations, but they ended the murders at Treblinka. The camp was never rebuilt in the wake of their revolt. The same is true for the extermination camp of Sobibor * after the prisoners broke out of the camp, it was shut down. The revolts of the prisoners in both camps were the direct cause of their closure. It is clear that without these rebellions, Jews, Gypsies, and other German "undesirables" would have continued to be executed for weeks to come in these places.

Where these revolts occurred, German activity was slowed or halted. The Warsaw ghetto was the scene of active fighting for more than six weeks, and sporadic resistance continued, unbelievably, until mid-June of 1944 * 15 months after the outbreak of the revolt!(12) If such violence had engulfed German executioners wherever they had attempted to harm Jews, the Holocaust would have been stillborn. To quote Emmanuel Ringelblum, archivist of the Warsaw ghetto, (13)

…if everybody had attacked the Germans with knives, clubs, shovels, choppers; if we had received the Germans, Ukrainians, Latvians, and the Jewish ghetto police with acid, molten pitch, boiling water, and so on * to put it in a nutshell, if men, women, and children, the young and the old, had risen in a single people’s levy, there would not have been 350,000 murdered at Treblinka, but only the 50,000 shot dead in the streets of Warsaw.

A final, and oft overlooked outcome of the revolts was the reclamation of simple human dignity by the fighters. The individuals incarcerated in the camps of the German extermination system died deliberately starved, beaten, helpless and dehumanized. They were subjected to the most brutal of tortures and the most degrading of conditions. No human being deserves to die in such a state. To fight back gave them the opportunity to have a hand in their fate; it gave them back the dignity that is the essence of being human.



Bibliography

Ainsztein, Reuben. Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Europe. Paul Elek Ldt, London: 1974.

Arad, Yitzhak. Ghetto in Flames. Holocaust Library, New York: 1982.

Berenbaum, Michael. The World Must Know.New York: Little, Brown, and Co, 1993.

Donat, Alexander. The Death Camp Treblinka. New York: Holocaust Library, 1979.

Gutman, Yisrael. The Jews of Warsaw, 1939-1943. Indiana University Press, Bloomington:1982.

Mark, Ber. Uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto. Schocken Books, New York: 1975.

Novitch, Miriam. Sobibor: Martydom and Revolt. Holocaust Library, New York: 1980.

Rotem, Simha. Memoirs of a Warsaw Ghetto Fighter. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1994.

Zuckerman, Yitzhak. A Surplus of Memory. University of California Press, Berkeley: 1993.

1) Ainsztein, Reuben. Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe. (London: Paul Elek, Ldt, 1974), 554
2) Zuckerman, Yitzhak. A Surplus of Memory. (Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1993), 357
3) The collapse of the Polish Army after the German invasion in 1939 and the retreat through Poland of the Red Army in 1941 had left a significant number of military weapons in the hands of Polish commoners.
4) Ainsztein 585
5) Arad, Yitzhak. Ghetto in Flames. (New York: Holocaust Library, 1982) 412
6) Donat, Alexander. The Death Camp Treblinka. (New York: Holocaust Library, 1979), 147
7) Novitch, Miriam. Sobibor. (New York: Holocaust Library, 1980) 131
8) Ibid 68
9) Ibid 50
10) Ainsztein 579
11) Novitch 13
12) Mark, Ber. Uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto. (New York: Schocken Books, 1975) 93
13) Ainsztein 593


http://www.a-human-right.com/

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 12-30-2008 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:46 AM   #16
ENdJOY
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

war against war is still war, and no one wins a war... the war that is going on, can be avoided, by the choices you make now. If you are prepared -you will not fear...the best you can hope to do is "save yourself"... you can't do that for anyone else...if they aren't listening now, they sure won't be listening when the **** storm begins in earnest ... they will just loose their minds. Think things through now, every possible scenario...and see yourself through it...when you are caught up in distractions, your mind will follow "the program" you have established automatically. No one plans to fail...they fail to plan.

Try to keep focused on the fact that NOTHING IS LOST...and nothing is wasted, and everything serves a purpose, for the greater good of all mankind. Don't let yourself get sucked into black holes.

trust, that you will be in the right place at the right time, by listening to your heart...it will not panic, and it has your best interest in mind. Don't talk about it...do it NOW.

Become invisible by raising your own frequency above fear and hate.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:14 AM   #17
burgundia
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I just believe that we all here will do what we are supposed to do, what we planned before coming to this plane.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:24 PM   #18
dagon
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I been thinking about a revolution for a while now. but even the revolutions of the past had a agenda. that wasn't pure. and I don't know how they truly formed. if I could I would like to step out of the economic and social life that is currently the matrix. but im leery of such movements. I often wonder who is behind some of the propaganda were all reading. and what the agenda is. I sick and tired of what I read and view on a daily basis. Im not saying I don't believe. Im mad as hell. every morning I wake up I don't want to go along in this mess of the matrix. but we all are a part of it, if we are one.



I to grow tired of being the odd one out in life. most people I know turn away as i enter the room. family trying to turn my attn to the matrix. friends and colleagues think im paranoid. most all people think things are ok. and don't question anything. fluoride is all good. the cem trails are bogus. 911 is not a hoax, there are no aliens, here comes the nut case. ho boy. everywhere I go. its the same thing. everybody i have talked to about the amero seem to think it would be a good thing. I don't know. its hard to stay focused on such things when everybody around me is fallowing the program. makes one feel powerless over the situation.



Im still trying to figure it all out.
Im mad as hell. and trying to find balance in it all. Im not so sure violence is the solution. but it is a option. depends on what comes down the pipe. so far Im taking the wait and see approach. preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. until I see a smoking gun.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:49 PM   #19
Myplanet2
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

That's not exactly what I was getting at, Waterman.

By "don't play", I didn't mean "don't live".

They created this game where we're made to feel as if there is no choice but to play. So we get sucked in early. But that doesn't stop us from getting ourselves "sucked back out", little by little.

There is by now lots available on how to eliminate dependence on bills, grocery stores, utilities, gas, etc. The move towards self sufficiency should be made as quickly and effectively as possible, by anyone who wants a better chance.

They would love nothing more than to be fought. Because they can't be beaten by fighting. Fighting would be the most lopsided contest in history. Fighting them gives them the ticket for the next set of patriot act/homeland security super clamp down.

Keep your guns, but just so they know you have them. Never to use them.

They've got the munitions. All they need is the targets. Rob them of their targets, and what do they have?

Grow you own food, make your own power, work with others who want peace.

They are trying to create the circumstances through which they can curtail the rest of the pesky freedoms people still enjoy.

My suggestion is simply that we create the future we want to see, starting now, and not bother fighting the present they have carefully created as a stake pit for us to fall into.

They'd like nothing more than to have mobs in the street burning police cars, and smashing bank windows. In fact they'd have their own agents/provocateurs there throwing the first brick. Just like they did in Greece.

we're in a tricky time right now, where strange realities coexist. One is a trap. The other is a bypass of the trap.

You might be able to fight your way out of the trap, but the smart money is on avoiding it. And if you spring the trap, many will fall into it who are not able to fight their way out. That would be to bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman View Post
You aren't participating? Your answer to the problem is not an answer. I bet you pay your bills, grocery shop, pay utilities or buy gas, with Canadian money...... If you don't then that is great.... if so then you are participating and don't even know it...
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:25 PM   #20
jazzgad
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I agree with Burgundia
And resonated strongly with message in “new paradigm” books that resistance is futile
We can change what is by utilizing law of attractions, creating during meditations
New paradigm where PTB are no longer in power ,and then allowing it to manifest it here .
Not an easy task when chaos is picking up day bay day but we came here knowing it can be done .
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:06 AM   #21
Waterman
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This thread was started to inspire, encourage, and mostly to kick people off the fence that they are straddling. And yes, there are many in the forum that are straddling the fence.

Thanks Myplanet2 for clarifying.....
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:37 AM   #22
dagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgundia View Post
I just believe that we all here will do what we are supposed to do, what we planned before coming to this plane.

wish I could remember the plan.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:55 AM   #23
Waterman
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Hopefully, this has inspired, motivated, and engaged everyone that has read our little discussion here. But don't stop here please continue by reading a plan of action you can participate in.

It is a thread entitled "You Must Choose Soon part 2" at this link.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...9090#post99090

If you want to fight back.... join us!
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:24 AM   #24
orthodoxymoron
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

I choose Constitutional Responsible Freedom...which should be trumpeted worldwide. Anarchy is not the answer to Tyranny. They feed off each other. It's like fighting a fire with a flamethrower. I found 'The Money Masters' on Google video to be instructive regarding how the wealthy elites profit immensely from war. I have also found interviews and lectures by Jim Marrs regarding his book 'The Rise of the Fourth Reich' on YouTube to be highly illuminating. The current crisis is an info-war...and should be fought on the internet and in the courts. The bad-guys want us to run in the streets like rats. Then they can kill and incarcerate the 'problems'...which will provide an example for the remaining shaking sheeple. Bill Cooper's 'The Secret Government' on YouTube (1.5hr version) was quite enlightening. I don't know if all the information is accurate...but it opened my eyes by at least 37.6%! Finally, I like the idea of everyone making it...even the bad-guys. The idea of only special people (good, smart, spiritual, rich, strong, etc.) making it is sick. Disguise it all you want...but it's still master-race bs. Wait till you see the whites of their lies...then expose them!
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Old 12-31-2008, 04:00 AM   #25
oldpaganfreak
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Default Re: You Must Choose Soon!

anarchy IS responsible freedom. our freedom is not possible if it restricts the freedom of others. therefore, anarchy is the ultimate answer to tyranny.
anarchy is not to be confused with chaos and mis-rule. it cannot be that or it is merely tyranny in costume.
constitutional responsible freedom seems to be an oxymoron. anything 'constitutional' must rely on a concensus of the majority. it will always alienate some, therefore, it cannot be absolute freedom.
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