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Old 10-09-2008, 12:46 PM   #76
eurosceptic
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Shaun Ryder explained it succinctly....


"...jesus was bataman, no! That was Bruce Wayne!"
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:25 PM   #77
Mystica
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The misdirection exists in the question "What was Jesus then?".

The real question is "Who is Jesus then?".

Jesus is the Son of God and future King coming to establish His monarchy. The monarchy will bring new paradigms of Truth and Justice.

However, before he arrives, there will be a monumental test of faith to separate the True Believers from the charlatans and wannabes.

Proceed wth caution and never abandon your faith. The great seduction is near.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:07 PM   #78
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I am lead to believe there are angels, demons and us the UFO phenomenon is the new scam from hell to get people in the sack.
It´been done before the great Flood.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:06 PM   #79
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Hello ALL...

My Take, real simple...Jesus was a touched individual, as was Mohammed, Buddha and everyone else that came before them, that all possessed these miraculous abilities...that were all inspired and made possible by the one Creator "GOD" of the known Multiple Universes.

All of those touched individuals merely wanted to remind us of who we really are and the potential that is inside of all of us. We again, are all made in Gods image (doesn't mean we look like him) and that we all have a part of him, which allows us ALL to have the abilities that those touched individuals acquired. This also means that we are all tied to one another, as brothers and sisters are, as well to our one mother, Mother Earth.


So, long and short, we are all GOD's, but have forgotten to act as such....when we begin to act like gods, will we then begin to obtain these touched abilities. When we loose the whoa is me (victim/abuser mentality), take responsibility for our THOUGHTS and actions, stop worshiping man....within reality or religious icons (these touched individuals were still man) and replenish our Mother Earth back to a harmonious Balance....will these abilities begin to transcend upon us and we'll have the epiphany of our true intended purpose for life (Other than procreation).

Best Thoughts to All
Josh

P.S. Mr. Merkhave....Well Said!

Last edited by Joshua; 10-09-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:04 PM   #80
Mystica
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I am dumbfounded as to why this thread is in 'off topic' while there exists a thread about saving dolphins in 'spirituality'. That being said, I would like to add this.

Quote:
Moreover, I, God the Creator, am being blasphemed. For people say: 'We do not know if God [Jesus] exists. And if he exists, we do not care.' They throw my banner to the ground and trample on it, saying: 'Why did he suffer? What good is it to us? If he would grant our wish, we will be satisfied - let him keep his kingdom and his heaven!'

I want to go into them, but they say: 'We would die before giving up our own will!'

My bride, see what kind of people they are! I made them and can destroy them with a word. How insolent they are toward me! Thanks to the prayers of my Mother and of all the saints, I remain merciful and patient enough that I am now willing to send them the words of my mouth and to offer them my mercy. If they want to accept it, I will be appeased.
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #81
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Jesus is the Anti-Christ.

His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.

It's their same old problem-reaction-solution situation.
Create a problem: 'Original sin, defaulting to hell'. Get the reaction, 'Fear of going there'. Provide the solution: "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"...

The Roman Empire knew it couldn't maintain control by military force indefinitely, so it turned to psychological means - the people will control themselves if we can get them to believe they are being watched all the time by a being who knows even their thoughts, and with their eternal fate on the line...
The ultimate fear base.

So the Roman Empire became the Roman Church, the Emperor became the Pope, the elites stayed on as priests, and so the bloodlines continued in power, with all countries loyal to the Pope, despite their borders and governments, etc...

...at least, that was the intention, until the gnostics and the secret societies started to grow and upset the power balance.

So the Catholic church created the illuminati to infiltrate and take over the growing threats, offering 'higher mysteries', etc. Who could resist?
That's why the Illuminati follow the same christian paradigm...
and that's why christians think they're beliefs are verified by them...

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Old 10-12-2008, 09:29 PM   #82
Mystica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.
Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:
1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.
Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.

Last edited by Mystica; 10-12-2008 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:19 PM   #83
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JMHO, but Jesus was not a concoction! He was real -- his life was real. There is a wealth of information which has come thru the Dead Sea Scrolls re: Jesus and the Essenes. Also, Dr. Joe Lewels has performed extensive research re: the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus, the Essenes, etc. He has written two really good books, one of which is "The Rulers of the Earth," which I would highly recommend reading.

Jesus was no myth -- he was a real flesh and blood man who was brought here to try to help -- he spoke the Truth. Unfortunately, most didn't believe him...until his death.
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:25 PM   #84
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This is from law of one,

I am Ra. The one known to you as Jesus of Nazareth did not have a name. This entity was a member of fifth density of the highest level of that sub-octave. This entity was desirous of entering this planetary sphere in order to share the love vibration in as pure a manner as possible. Thus, this entity received permission to perform this mission. This entity was then a Wanderer of no name, of Confederation origins, of fifth density, representing the fifth-density understanding of the vibration of understanding or love.

http://www.lawofone.info/?sc=1&ss=0
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:26 PM   #85
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Link to one site re: the Dead Sea Scrolls:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/juda.html

SNIP:

"The Dead Sea Scrolls include a range of contemporary documents that serve as a window on a turbulent and critical period in the history of Judaism. In addition to the three groups identified by Josephus (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), Judaism was further divided into numerous religious sects and political parties. With the destruction of the Temple and the commonwealth in 70 C.E., all that came to an end. Only the Judaism of the Pharisees--Rabbinic Judaism--survived. Reflected in Qumran literature is a Judaism in transition: moving from the religion of Israel as described in the Bible to the Judaism of the rabbis as expounded in the Mishnah (a third-century compilation of Jewish laws and customs which forms the basis of modern Jewish practice)."

"The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the events described in the New Testament, have added to our understanding of the Jewish background of Christianity. Scholars have pointed to similarities between beliefs and practices outlined in the Qumran literature and those of early Christians. These parallels include comparable rituals of baptism, communal meals, and property. Most interesting is the parallel organizational structures: the sectarians divided themselves into twelve tribes led by twelve chiefs, similar to the structure of the early Church, with twelve apostles who, according to Jesus, would to sit on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Many scholars believe that both the literature of Qumran and the early Christian teachings stem from a common stream within Judaism and do not reflect a direct link between the Qumran community and the early Christians."
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:30 PM   #86
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Jesus was son of MAN..

GOD is the web that connects all things. WE are GOD (law of one)
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:38 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jma View Post
I am lead to believe there are angels, demons and to us the UFO phenomenon is the new scam from hell to get people in the sack.
It´been done before the great Flood.

Take both extraneous topics...blend them into one...and the truth is beheld. Our ancestors knew it... we are beginning to remember. The veil between this world and theirs is falling.
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Old 10-12-2008, 11:39 PM   #88
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Very well written Mystica, so very true. Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for. This could take perhaps many lifetimes, I do feel that this is a very special time , the accelaration process is at its peak. Many people who follow in the footsteps of the Christ and die on the cross or eaten by lions or worse they could see Jesus right next to them, that is why they were not afraid. The secret is that God, Angels, Jesus, Saints and Sages
are always there, it is us that are deaf and blind. My childhood was not very easy and often I would call for God, asking him to show himself to me, then I heard a voice clearly ringing in my ears, "Frank, Frank, why are you looking for me out there" ? I was shocked and I must admit a little afraid, finally I muster the courage to ask, " what do you mean? " You have been looking for me everywhere, he answer ,I have always been by your side, look within you, there you will find me always by your side. I cry because often times I was angry and felt akward in dealing with other human beings. I've learn to see God within all of us ,the flame is there even if you cannot feel it burning within. Mystica you know that looking within for God is not the same as believing in the doctrine of a particular denomination Jesus did not created christianity man did, It should have been called Jesuism, too bad that so many books about the life of Jesus where burned or hidden in the vatican, the secrets are now in the open if you ask the right questions. Secrets kept for thousands of years, it is right in front of our eyes .

Last edited by Frank Samuel; 10-13-2008 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:56 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
Very well written Mystica, so very true.
Thank you but I cannot take credit for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for.
I believe this is the key. I have a small flame within and pray (meditate) daily that it be God's will for it to become stronger and hotter. As it does, life becomes ever more sublime.

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Originally Posted by Evolution22 View Post
WE are GOD
This is the Luciferian ideal and it saddens me when so many people understand so much of the cosmos then fall into the pit of believing they are God. Why do so many honor the creation more than the Creator? Will the Mona Lisa ever paint like Da Vinci?

Amazing blessings come when one has enough faith to hand his free will back to God.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:53 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystica View Post
Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:
1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.
Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.
?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:21 AM   #91
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George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:39 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.
It is likely that the Roman church was either created (or hijacked by individuals) to control the masses. Jesus showed disdain for organized religion and warned repeatedly of it.

There is abundant evidence that Jesus lived, taught and influenced many. There isn't any evidence that he was a story created by the Roman Empire. In the same manner as politics today, the Romans used his story to their own ends.

True Christianity is not learned in a church and is anything but redundant.

In a sense, it isn't any different than following this New Age Guru or that Eastern philosphy. For that matter it isn't any different than believing in the 100th monkey theory. We all choose the path we take. Unfotunately some paths are dead ends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by End_Times012 View Post
George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?
I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close. Sure would make it easy if Adam and Eve had cameras. But if it was easy, it wouldn't be worthwhile.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:25 PM   #93
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From the horses mouth,

http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
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I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close.
That wasn't his point. That was my question. I should have clarified. Great man who was more than just a comedian.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:28 AM   #95
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Did you ever listen to Jordan Maxwel's "chief cornerstone"?
This is a concept of Jesus which makes sense to me.
In a nutshell: Jesus is said to be the chief cornerstone, which means the top of the pyramid.
The concept of the pyramid is that you start at the bottom when life begins and that you make your way to the top of the pyramid until you finally reach the chief cornerstone which is spiritual and intellectual elightenment. The final concept of Jesus is one's own enlightenment.

Our religions tell us that it was all “god” who created the universe and us.

Maybe the big confusion, when we discuss theses subjects, is that God and Jesus were made into something “external” (Corinthians, 1, 3.16: “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”)?

Those people I met, who found God inside, no matter what believes they have, are deeply religious, and a lot of them are fully aware about being connected to the creator and the universe.

Didn’t just this external displacement make us irresponsible concerning our creations and even towards our higher self? Was Jesus not buried in Golgotha, the “place of the skull” (maybe our own head) just because of that? Is it that we don’t find our spirituality because we look outside? (excuse my english)

“You’ve been told many times before Messiah pointed to the door but no one has the guts to leave the temple” The Who, Tommy, Rock Opera

Most of the time people say “my soul”, and by saying “my”, they refer to something external. Apparently this is so meaningless to some, that they sell it at Ebay because they don’t have any use for it.

When we look for God at the outside, then we can also push all the responsibility on him and we can fight wars in his name. What if we would have to take the responsibility for that ourselves?

Do we create this external god to escape our own responsibility?

I find people who do things "in the name of god" most frightening.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:01 AM   #96
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Jesus was an Earth person, not an “extra”terrestrial but a truly “extra-ordinary” person who, through multiple incarnations, had reached a high degree of evolution. He didn’t need to incarnate again but, nonetheless, out of love for humanity, accepted to return in the same manner as a bodhisattva such as “Maitreya” or the Buddha of Compassion might. He did it to share his enlightenment with all and to guide humanity towards the peace and true happiness which are based upon love and service.

It was extremely important for someone of this level to come and remind us about the great expectation that exists on a cosmic level in regards to our planet. For this reason, he returned once again leaving behind his seat as The Great Lord of Shambhalla where he had already been spiritually leading the Great White Brotherhood of Earth in the inner or subterranean world.

Jesus was an extraordinary being that advanced with great effort throughout several lifetimes in our planet. The Messiah had also reached a level needed to accept suffering in his own flesh, actually, Earth’s own purifying pains through extremely difficult tests in the material, moral, psychic and spiritual levels. These supreme tests he was subjected to dealt with the unconsciousness, the lack of understanding, selfishness, ignorance and thoughtlessness of others. In sum, these things are nothing but fear of change and transformation. However, this was the only way to lift humanity from its error and to assist humanity to remember its collective responsibility, demonstrating as an alternative the example of understanding and love synthesized by forgiveness. Jesus’ example became such a force that it even overcomes physical death and grants spiritual power over matter.

Jesus had to set ablaze the emotions of other people, thus initiating a spiritual chain reaction and, stirring them with his attitude and example, into attempting the same, transcending established ways, prejudices, dogmas and everything that decreases freedom of the mind, the heart and the soul. Moreover, Jesus’ life was in itself a lesson on practical and down-to-earth spirituality in which the most profound teaching consisted in reminding us about our place, that seat of honor assigned to us by the hierarchies of the Cosmic Plan.

As we know, Earth unfolds in an alternative time frame with respect to the Real Time of the Universe. Jesus’ presence (also identified as The Lord of Time, due to his mastery and authority over the Fourth Dimension) allowed our world to begin reconnecting the two time frames. The Jesus’ “event” assured continuity in the process and was necessary because events taking place in our world were getting too complicated and were escaping from any possible guidance or control by the extraterrestrial Watchers. As a result, the possibilities for an eventual reconnection were diminishing and this fact could cause a space-time paradox that could have resulted in an immediate suppression of Earth’s time frame and process. For this reason, the request for a volunteer was placed in the higher planes of existence. This volunteer was meant to incarnate and to manifest through his life humanity’s mission, the Cosmic Plan and the cosmic connection, hence, showing the way to follow. This was Jesus’ authentic being.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:21 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lennonmccartney View Post
Jesus was an Earth person, not an “extra”terrestrial but a truly “extra-ordinary” person who, through multiple incarnations, had reached a high degree of evolution. He didn’t need to incarnate again but, nonetheless, out of love for humanity, accepted to return in the same manner as a bodhisattva such as “Maitreya” or the Buddha of Compassion might. He did it to share his enlightenment with all and to guide humanity towards the peace and true happiness which are based upon love and service.

It was extremely important for someone of this level to come and remind us about the great expectation that exists on a cosmic level in regards to our planet. For this reason, he returned once again leaving behind his seat as The Great Lord of Shambhalla where he had already been spiritually leading the Great White Brotherhood of Earth in the inner or subterranean world.

Jesus was an extraordinary being that advanced with great effort throughout several lifetimes in our planet. The Messiah had also reached a level needed to accept suffering in his own flesh, actually, Earth’s own purifying pains through extremely difficult tests in the material, moral, psychic and spiritual levels. These supreme tests he was subjected to dealt with the unconsciousness, the lack of understanding, selfishness, ignorance and thoughtlessness of others. In sum, these things are nothing but fear of change and transformation. However, this was the only way to lift humanity from its error and to assist humanity to remember its collective responsibility, demonstrating as an alternative the example of understanding and love synthesized by forgiveness. Jesus’ example became such a force that it even overcomes physical death and grants spiritual power over matter.

Jesus had to set ablaze the emotions of other people, thus initiating a spiritual chain reaction and, stirring them with his attitude and example, into attempting the same, transcending established ways, prejudices, dogmas and everything that decreases freedom of the mind, the heart and the soul. Moreover, Jesus’ life was in itself a lesson on practical and down-to-earth spirituality in which the most profound teaching consisted in reminding us about our place, that seat of honor assigned to us by the hierarchies of the Cosmic Plan.

As we know, Earth unfolds in an alternative time frame with respect to the Real Time of the Universe. Jesus’ presence (also identified as The Lord of Time, due to his mastery and authority over the Fourth Dimension) allowed our world to begin reconnecting the two time frames. The Jesus’ “event” assured continuity in the process and was necessary because events taking place in our world were getting too complicated and were escaping from any possible guidance or control by the extraterrestrial Watchers. As a result, the possibilities for an eventual reconnection were diminishing and this fact could cause a space-time paradox that could have resulted in an immediate suppression of Earth’s time frame and process. For this reason, the request for a volunteer was placed in the higher planes of existence. This volunteer was meant to incarnate and to manifest through his life humanity’s mission, the Cosmic Plan and the cosmic connection, hence, showing the way to follow. This was Jesus’ authentic being.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:49 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge View Post
Had a revealing discussion with a Christian. They believe so strongly that you can only be "saved" if you believe in Christ. They also believe that there will be nothing left once were all "judged". And that a new earth will be created.

If Christ did exist, and it seems as though he did, then just what was he?

This is not a religion bashing thread, so please do not be ignorant.
Jesus is still around for sure, I met him through a channeling with "Elyah" (starbeing), and his energy was just over the top awesome, I believe he is in the 8th dimetion now and will not be back for a while. His name is Sananda by the way. Jesus = Sananda :-)

Light nd love
@
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:19 AM   #99
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Comments by Abraxasinas:

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He was an initiate, a descending master, who had an occult task beyond his public life.

Yes, the emphasis is on the 'descent' enabled to 'collect' many previous nonphysicalised archetypes such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses and Joshuah in David, first king of Israel following the 'kings and judges' period ending in Saul.


He had to bridge matter with the ether through the astral plane to prepare for the reopening of the universal circuits, therefore paving the way for man to re-connect with reality.

The label 'bridge' is most appropriate - a 'bridge over troubled waters' as Simon and Garfunkle would sing.

Believing or not is irrelevant.

The notion of 'belief' has become displaced by the notion of 'remembrance' and resonating synergy between the encompassing universal Logos and the Logii of the individuations.

People who believe that because they believe they are a done deal, well, its part of their experience.

This universal bridge is now established and it creates great turmoil in the world of the dead, in the astral plane. They fear to lose control.

Indeed, the astral plane has become infused by the wavefunction of the 'ascension' of the 'descension' into particle-nature.

And this will become more and more obvious as mental illness becomes more and more common. It also brings about a quickening of events to enforce death over consciousness.

Now, via this bridge, the individuals can be reconnected from within from their own source.

This is wonderful gnosis Richard T.

The next evolution will be very personal and not collective, for the simple reason that dependency on beliefs will be eradicated as the individual becomes a new initiate, an ascending initiate.

Again, you are 'right on'. 'Blessed are the solitary,...'.

Instead of being led by collective values, he will become the creator of his evolutionary condition.

Yes.

This, of course, will require this individual to put to death all aspects of devolutionary consciousness that have taken residence in his psyche.

Indeed and it will prove very hard to do so for the many.

Life will start from there as opposed to existence.

This is but the scriptural annotation of 'having to become reborn' to enter the kingdom of heaven.

So, all in all, we can say that in a way he saved humanity.
Heshe has become the collective and encompassing humanity, as a cosmic reidentification; so enabling all and sundry to ascend their 3D physical particular selfstates into the 'astral' 4D starhuman self-state.
This will even more 'redefine' the astral lifeforms, which have resided there since the dawn of humanity upon the planet earth.

Abraxas
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:36 AM   #100
Majorion
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble Janitor View Post
It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?
HJ, it all depends on how you define God.

Some people believe that the Universe is God, and we have plenty of pictures there. Some people believe that God can be seen all around us in that 'mother earth' or 'Gaia' is God. Personally, I happen to believe that many religions were inspired by and came from extraterrestrials. Of course no one knows for certain, but its an explanation that in my estimation -- holds more water than the explanation about an actual deity.

Putting religions and the thousand different belief systems aside, I think the only real God is a force all encompassing and timeless and something/someone so unfathomable to our minds, it's almost pointless dwelling on the matter for too long.

Here's something else to think about:
Quote:
Foundationism (not to be confused with the school of philosophy called foundationalism), is a fictional religion invented by J. Michael Straczynski for his science fiction television show, Babylon 5. Foundationism appeared on Earth around the year 2157 in response to contact with other intelligent species in the universe. Dr. Franklin explains that "the idea behind the Foundation is that to get back to the roots of all the Earth religions, get past the doctrines to the core of each belief system to find out what they have in common. And they've got a lot more in common than you think. It's just when politics and money and nationalism get in the way that things get a little messed up." He also explains that Foundationists believe that "The closer you get to defining God, the further away it gets."
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