Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John

4Q529 · 02-26-2010, 11:53 PM

Long story short, the Revelation of John can be explained only by someone who has personally received both the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" (including the Revelation of the Memory of Creation--Genesis 2:7; and the revelation of the memories of previous lives--Luke 20:34-36).

Having no Knowledge whatsoever of Revealed Truth, the Christian theologians have concocted any number of utterly bizarre interpretations of the Revelation of John; in the process making probably tens of millions of dollars (theft by deception) with the sale of books, magazine articles, video and audio tapes, classes, etc. etc. etc.

What they do not understand is that the terms "dragon", "beast of the sea" and "beast of the earth" are to be understood as representing different aspects of the 'fallen' consciousness: the "dragon" symbolizing the 'movement' of self-reflection; the "beast of the sea" symbolizing the "self"; and the "beast of the earth" symbolizing the 'thinker'.

In the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy5QeBRu3JI

Agent Smith represents the 'movement' of self-reflection or the "dragon", whereas Neo represents the "observing consciousness" or "Michael" (see chapter 12 of the Revelation of John).

The origin of the 3-dimensional 'curved' space within which the "self" exists occurs at time segment 5:29-5:33; after which "the Fall" is symbolized by time segment 5:45-6:08.

Then, in the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GALu0...eature=related

Agent Smith, as the “beast of the sea”/consciousness of the “self”, is graphically represented at time segment 2:15-2:23; whereas Agent Smith, as the “beast of the earth”/consciousness of the‘thinker’, emerges at time segment 3:01-3:05; references to the "beast of the sea" and the "beast of the earth" being found in Chapter 13 of the Revelation of John(The "beast of the earth" is also referred to in Sura 27:82 of the Koran.)

And, were these Truths about the Revelation of John to be more widely publicized--rather than the bizarre interpretations of the Christian theologians--there would be more of a chance for Peace in the Middle East than there is at present.

But the media is, of course, under the complete control of either the secularists or those whose economic survival depends upon the preservation of the bizarre doctrines of Christianity, Inc.

Frank Samuel · 02-27-2010, 12:20 AM

As a former theologian I can tell you that very few truly understand the scriptures, so I will give a doctor's degree to you because you understand a lot more than many of the theology professors that I had. I was so disenchanted that my path lead me into other roads to achieve the same destination. As we try to intellectualize religious books we tend to miss the whole point by using your internal essence your Heart you begin to understand these spiritual guides from a personal perspective. For example the end of the world is true for all of us, we die and we are reborn, the world is you.Fear manipulation has been an effective way to control religious people all over the world, is time to lift the veil. Universal truth is simple and very personal, the roads are many, the destination is the same.

rosie · 02-27-2010, 01:13 AM

40529, loving your thoughts on this matter!

This "well" is very deep, not too many people get the chance to see what's above, or below, the surface. They are too busy believing the lies.

But, I have faith in "humanity", to grow where it needs to grow, which is towards love, not war.

More and more people are speaking out, things are going mainstream, things that the "powers who wish they were" , do not want to get out. We are, by own natural destiny, love, and love will prevail, that I can 100% guarantee.

love & light to everyone tonight!

Gnosis5 · 02-27-2010, 05:25 AM

I am interested in reading the source works that form the basis of Christian Science. There is a reading room locally. I have been told that their healing technologies are about 90% truth, but on such a high level that most people are left standing on the other side of a raised drawbridge.

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 07:50 AM

First dont shoot the messenger.
Dr David Hawkins is I believe a Mystic of our time and claims that there is a method of telling truth from false hood as in his Books "Power versus Force" and "Truth versus Falsehood"

http://www.veritaspub.com

When you go there please also go to the about section.

Dr Hawkins can remember all past lives and is in the state of full Enlightenment, there are levels of enlightenment.

He has developed a map of consciousness and way of calibrating all levels of consiousness.
He claims that the Bible and various other Holy Books calibrate highly but that "Revelations" is of a very low calibration and was actually channeled from the lower astral and is not concordant with the teachings of Christ which are of course valid. The Old Testiment except for Genisis Proverbs and Psalms also calibrates low as it depicts an angry paranoid judgmental god which is far removed from the truth and teachings of Jesus.
I realize these statements are controversial and will not debate them as I personally dont know. I can only point to the life work of Dr Hawkins who is in his 80s now and still dedicated to raising the consciousness of mankind.

Chris

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 12:09 PM

Truth is eternal or it would not be true.
How ever the perception of truth evolves.
The Old Testament reflected the perception of god that was prevalent at that time.
As is known historically the bible was radically altered by man at the council of Nancia (is that the spelling?)
So much of the old testament was doctored that it is not safe to quote any of it.
Jesus was crucified because he told the Truth as it is, eternal.

The current perception of truth as pointed to by recent mystics in the last and this century has moved much closer to Truth.
Perception is still not the same as subjective experience which is uniformly related to pointed to by curent enlightened sages.
The moment words are used it is not subjective experience.

Anything fear based is not of God.
That is an easy rule of thumb to measure by.

That is just my point of view not saying I am right.
Chris

K626 · 02-27-2010, 12:59 PM

There are constantly changing views of 'truth' and versions of 'truth', it is alivea and moving as we are alive and moving. There is no one source which is dominant or central, we effect the source as the source changes us. Our very loose grip on reality often means a harder and more narrow search for some kind of truth. It's a waste of time.

4Q529 · 02-27-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard

He claims that the Bible and various other Holy Books calibrate highly but that "Revelations" is of a very low calibration and was actually channeled from the lower astral and is not concordant with the teachings of Christ which are of course valid.

Then, clearly, he has not received either the Vision of the "Son of man" or the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

Then, clearly, he does not know that the "serpent" in Genesis 3 is a symbol for the 'movement' of self-reflection; that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is a symbol for the consciousness of the "self"; or that the 'fig leaves' of Genesis 3 refer to the thoughts of the 'thinker'.

Then, clearly, he does not understand that this symbolism is extended by Jesus in Saying #37 of the Gospel of Thomas.

Then, clearly, he does not understand that this symbolism is continued in the "dragon", the "beast of the sea" and the "beast of the earth" in the Revelation of John.

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Q529

Then, clearly, he has not received either the Vision of the "Son of man" or the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

Then, clearly, he does not know that the "serpent" in Genesis 3 is a symbol for the 'movement' of self-reflection; that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is a symbol for the consciousness of the "self"; or that the 'fig leaves' of Genesis 3 refer to the thoughts of the 'thinker'.

Then, clearly, he does not understand that this symbolism is extended by Jesus in Saying #37 of the Gospel of Thomas.

Then, clearly, he does not understand that this symbolism is continued in the "dragon", the "beast of the sea" and the "beast of the earth" in the Revelation of John.

With respect clearly you perceive in your own personal way.
Clearly his subjective experience is his.
I dont know what he thinks about the statements in Genesis you mention, with respect neither do you.
im not about to try and change anyones point of view.
Im sharing what I believe to be so about what he has experienced to be so.
If any one wishes to investigate further what you are saying that is their free choice.
If any one wishes to investigate what Dr Hawkins teaches thats their freedom of choice.

I go with what Beren said on another thread,
Love love and then see what happens.
Love and fear are not compatible.
Regards and best wishes.
Chris

HORIZONS · 02-27-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard

With respect clearly you perceive in your own personal way.
Clearly his subjective experience is his.
I dont know what he thinks about the statements in Genesis you mention, with respect neither do you.
im not about to try and change anyones point of view.
Im sharing what I believe to be so about what he has experienced to be so.
If any one wishes to investigate further what you are saying that is their free choice.
If any one wishes to investigate what Dr Hawkins teaches thats their freedom of choice.

I go with what Beren said on another thread,
Love love and then see what happens.
Love and fear are not compatible.
Regards and best wishes.
Chris

This is a very open point of view, while the other seems to be closed and dogmatic.

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

This is a very open point of view, while the other seems to be closed and dogmatic.

My belief Horizon is that God is Love and that is the attraction.
How would I learn anything if I dident have an open point of view with discernment of course?

Ive found that If people are lectured at then out of fear they will stay with their established beliefs even if these beliefs are proved to be wrong, therefor trying to cajole people is unproductive and a sheer waste of time, you just alienate them even though your point of view might be life saving and valid.

God being Love does not need force to bring people to believe in Him.
Jesus used love to attract disciples.
He taught love God,love your enemy and forgiveness.

Chris

kriya · 02-27-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard

He claims that the Bible and various other Holy Books calibrate highly but that "Revelations" is of a very low calibration and was actually channeled from the lower astral and is not concordant with the teachings of Christ which are of course valid.

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yogananda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

4Q529 · 02-27-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriya

IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Well, of course, that is the story which is told by the male disciples of Jesus.

But, in the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip, as I recall, the apostles acknowledge that Jesus loved Mary more than he loved them, "kissing her often on her mouth" (not lips, mouth).

In other words, both John and Mary received the Vision of the "Son of man"; but it was the Revelation of John which became a part of the Christian canon, whereas the Gospel of Mary was considered to be heretical; and, so, had to be hidden to prevent its complete destruction; although significant parts of the Gospel of Mary are, in fact, missing.

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriya

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yoga nanda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

Hi Kriya.
I honestly dont know.
But I believe Dr Hawkins does.
Check him out, your open minded

http://www.veritaspub.com/

.

While he doesn't need verification, he just knows, he get every statement he makes checked rigorously and scientifically by students using the Kinesolgy muscle testing technique which was given credibility through the work of Dr Diamond.

You will find Dr Hawkins love of God and devotion to truth inspiring.

Love Chris

kriya · 02-27-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Q529

Well, of course, that is the story which is told by the male disciples of Jesus.

But, in the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip, as I recall, the apostles acknowledge that Jesus loved Mary more than he loved them, "kissing her often on her mouth" (not lips, mouth).

In other words, both John and Mary received the Vision of the "Son of man"; but it was the Revelation of John which became a part of the Christian canon, whereas the Gospel of Mary was considered to be heretical; and, so, had to be hidden to prevent its complete destruction; although significant parts of the Gospel of Mary are, in fact, missing.

Yes I believe Mary Magdalene had great realisations also.

Gnosis5 · 02-27-2010, 08:33 PM

Hello Chris,

Yes, part of my diagnostic readings is periodically getting a David Hawkins reading. Mine went up 90 points since I started my clearing work and got my first reading. The interesting thing that verified it for me is that at the time I hit my high mark I was intensely interested in the gospel of Thomas, and I found out later that its rating was exactly as mine. The points above me, which I was reaching for, were in the Buddhic range.

There is a David Hawkins forum that has ratings for a long list of books, music, art: http://www.level-of-consciousness.org/. Although I don't see anymore postings on it, the books rating is very interesting.

I would be interested to know how Christian Science healing technology rates.

A fine distinction to keep in mind is that even though some books or music may have an overall low rating, there might be some jewels in there nonetheless, but would call for more sorting and discernment. I used to call it my "truth governor" :-)

Gnosis5 · 02-27-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriya

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yogananda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

I met Yogananda in his disembodied state and personally I would rate Babaji higher then him. Yogananda's autobiography was a milestone for me in stepping outside the confines of my Christian indoctrination and moving toward a more understandable and practicable spiritual technology. However, when I connected with him in his disembodied state I found him personally somewhat manipulative and he left me in a bit of a huff (to say the least).

I agree with the fellas who use Hawkins' method who several of them independently rated Revelations. However, there may be something in the Revelations that might rate very highly. Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

4Q529 · 02-27-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

As previously stated, the only one who can have any real understanding of the Revelation of John is someone who has personally received both the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the Memory of Creation. But that also pertains to the over-all significance of the Revelation of John. Thus, any attempts to 'test' the Revelation of John for its Truth originate in the thoughts of either the "beast of the sea" consciousness of the "self" or the "beast of the earth" consciousness of the 'thinker'--both of which are, in and of themselves, aspects of the 'fallen' consciousness which has, in effect, created itself rather than being Created 'by and in the image of God'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

This ignores the direct connection between the Revelation of John and Sura 27:82 of the Koran's mention of the "beast of the earth"--thus establishing the continuity of the Revelations received by Jesus and Mohammed; which, if widely publicized, would sharply diminish the potential for violence between Christians and Muslims; but which would probably, on the other hand, impoverish many thousands of both Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities'.

And so, rather than suffering such a 'terrible' fate, these religious 'authorities' prefer to continue to lie--thereby, however, pushing this civilization towards horrors far beyond their most horrific nightmares.

greybeard · 02-27-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I agree with the fellas who use Hawkins' method who several of them independently rated Revelations. However, there may be something in the Revelations that might rate very highly. Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

Surprise surprise I have a book to hand with the very calibrations, though for me its not about calibrations, its about the teaching flowing through Dr Hawkins.
Calibrations are given by Dr Hawkins so that spiritual seekers can choose teachings and teachers that are life supporting. ( Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing)
Thats why the Map of consciousness was developed.

Copied from the book
"Reality Spirituality and Modern Man"
Dr David R Hawkins M.D Ph.D

600 is the level of enlightenment, Jesus in the body calibrated at 1000 on a logarithmic scale. Archangels 50000. God infinite. There are levels of enlightenment up to 1000.

( its not possible for the human body to accept a higher spiritual energy that 1000)

Anyway that just puts into perspective.

Genisis Lamsa bible 660
Lamsa bible (minus the Old testament and book of Revelations but including Genesis Psalms and Proverbs) 880
King James Bible from the Greek 475
New testament King James version after the deletion of the book of Revelations 790

Upanisheds 970
Bhagavad Gita 910
Trinity concept 945
Gospel of St Thomas 660.

The calibrations were tested independently using the muscle testing technique.

Chris

Gnosis5 · 02-28-2010, 01:42 AM

I believe the Rig Veda also rated very highly. There are a few practices and books I like and I would like someone to independently give them a Hawkins rating. As I said, when I had a yearning for the gospel of St. Thomas I found I rated the same as the gospel does, which was a 90 points gain in less than o ne year of some tenacious and dedicated clearing work, but I have a whole list that my psychic friend checks me for and that gives me more of a balanced look at overall changes.

Say, Chris, maybe we should move this over to another thread

I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone over the enlightenment level of Revelations. I am in the practice of changing futures so I would at best view it as an agent of change.

14 Chakras · 02-28-2010, 02:15 AM

From my perspective,

Truth is spherical. Non-linear.

As soon as we try and fit Truth in a linear understanding, it's a belief. Beliefs are our prisons. Truth that sets us Free is in Being, not believing.

Mind over matter yes indeed, but not the believing mind or the thinking mind, rather the Being mind, the Christ mind that resides within us. I let the Father Mother within Be the doer and I and my Father Mother are One. Meaning: the thinker does not be, I do not do, I simply BE, Be ME ~ I will Be that I will Be.

For me, there is no outer teaching that is perfect. Whatever helps us have an a-ha moment is perfect. As soon as we turn an outer teaching into a belief, I suggest that it causes more harm than good generally speaking. Truth is BE-yond belief.

For me, revelations hides many Truths that will one day be much more exposed. But the bible is far from "God's Holy Word", rather it is the dead word. God's Holy Word is written in the Now in our Heart. It is the Living Word.

Whereas words on paper can inspire if we let them take us higher and seek the inner Truth, but more often than not imprison us in ego illusions as we are often blind to the inner and esoteric Truth behind the outer exoteric words. And of course, the bible that is available today has very little outer value, but yes much inner for those willing to read between the lines, as I would suggest most of the more empowering elements were removed long ago. The elite of the days did not want the true message of Christ: That we are all Christ Beings when we choose to Be, and the death, suffering and victim consciousness are all illusions of our own making that we can transcend by connecting to God within us and awakening to our True identity: Suns and Daughters of God.

Truth should be experienced. Truth is a River of Life, not a belief. Gnosis is the only Truth.

However, when we do have the experience of Truth, we must be careful not to turn it into another linear belief. The reality is, that Truth is infinite, and there are infininte different Ways of interpreting an experience. Whatever we 'believe' will color our experience, and often we will mistakenly 'believe' if only everyone else believed what we believe we expirienced, then the world would be fixed. However, the reality is, that the experience of Truth, Gnosis with it, eternally Now, is the only thing that will bring enlightenment and Peace to Earth. Beliefs are dualistic by nature. Truth is Being. So let us surrender to Truth and have our own internal experiences that help raise us higher into the Truth that sets us free

And it is great to share our experiences as well, as they help us all come up higher.

waitinginthewings · 02-28-2010, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

From my perspective,

Truth is spherical. Non-linear.

As soon as we try and fit Truth in a linear understanding, it's a belief. Beliefs are our prisons. Truth that sets us Free is in Being, not believing.

Mind over matter yes indeed, but not the believing mind or the thinking mind, rather the Being mind, the Christ mind that resides within us. I let the Father Mother within Be the doer and I and my Father Mother are One. Meaning: the thinker does not be, I do not do, I simply BE, Be ME ~ I will Be that I will Be.

For me, there is no outer teaching that is perfect. Whatever helps us have an a-ha moment is perfect. As soon as we turn an outer teaching into a belief, I suggest that it causes more harm than good generally speaking. Truth is BE-yond belief.

For me, revelations hides many Truths that will one day be much more exposed. But the bible is far from "God's Holy Word", rather it is the dead word. God's Holy Word is written in the Now in our Heart. It is the Living Word.

Whereas words on paper can inspire if we let them take us higher and seek the inner Truth, but more often than not imprison us in ego illusions as we are often blind to the inner and esoteric Truth behind the outer exoteric words. And of course, the bible that is available today has very little outer value, but yes much inner for those willing to read between the lines, as I would suggest most of the more empowering elements were removed long ago.

Truth should be experienced. Truth is a River of Life, not a belief. Gnosis is the only Truth.

However, when we do have the experience of Truth, we must be careful not to turn it into another linear belief. The reality is, that Truth is infinite, and there are infininte different Ways of interpreting an experience. Whatever we 'believe' will color our experience, and often we will mistakenly 'believe' if only everyone else believed what we believe we expirienced, then the world would be fixed. However, the reality is, that the experience of Truth, Gnosis with it, eternally Now, is the only thing that will bring enlightenment and Peace to Earth. Beliefs are dualistic by nature. Truth is Being. So let us surrender to Truth and have our own internal experiences that help raise us higher into the Truth that sets us free

And it is great to share our experiences as well, as they help us all come up higher.

Why do you keep saying this in all of your posts?

14 Chakras · 02-28-2010, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

[/COLOR]

Why do you keep saying this in all of your posts?

Interesting question ~

In this case, I said: "helps us call up higher" by sharing non-dualistic experiences we receive, such as the one that 4Q529 shared, as they continually add to the puzzle of Truth.

When someone has a non-dualistic experience, and they share it, and then we hear of many other people's as well, we can start to put the puzzle together in terms of higher Truths. Most people, many people, have non-dualistic experiences, and when we share, we all learn a bit, we all come up higher. After that it all comes to interpretation which varies widely and generally ends up reinforcing a different 'belief' system in each one of us, but the Truth is beyond thought, beyond belief. So ideally, we each continue to seek and find non-dualistic experiences and in that way we do not form beliefs, rather we surrender to Truth.

If this "helps us all come up higher" has been used in other posts, it is because I believe it is now time for humanity to awaken to their own Divine nature and to the reality that God lives inside of us and provides perfectly for us, including our protection, fulfillment of needs, and highest inspiration when we connect to the Divine within us. However, it is not 1 or 2 people that need to move higher in consciousness now. It is all people. Earth is Ascending and each person must make shifts in their consciousness into the more interconnected empowered reality in order to make the shift.

So us communing here, discussing, being open to higher Truth's helps the whole as we shift our consciousness, we help shift Earth's collective consciousness which is what needs to happen Now.

~ Espavo ~ (<Lemurian for: Thank you for taking your Power)

RedeZra · 02-28-2010, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

I believe it is now time for humanity to awaken to their own Divine nature and to the reality that God lives inside of us and provides perfectly for us, including our protection, fulfillment of needs, and highest inspiration when we connect to the Divine within us.

hear hear

Be Still and Know that I Am God

the world would be a pretty harmonious place

if not for

I Me and Mine

Gnosis5 · 02-28-2010, 03:42 AM

Back in my primordial bible reading days, before I joined a group

, when I did read the Bible I read it alone in the privacy of my home and respectfully and with a sense of connection. What I experienced is that whatever I needed to know for my own life at that time, well, the words would "light up" on the page and I would be "convicted". I wrote down those passages on a small card and carried it with me -- I meant business because I knew I needed higher guidance.

I can still recall some of those verses, for example, "God is light and within him there is neither darkness nor shadow of turning...", and my lifetime mantra is "All things work together for good...".

When Jesus said ye are my brothers and sisters, and you can do greater things... my heart soared. There are some Christian groups that would like to diminish that or even take that away from me !!???!!!

02-26-2010, 11:53 PM	#1
4Q529 Project Avalon Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: United States Posts: 72	Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John Long story short, the Revelation of John can be explained only by someone who has personally received both the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" (including the Revelation of the Memory of Creation--Genesis 2:7; and the revelation of the memories of previous lives--Luke 20:34-36). Having no Knowledge whatsoever of Revealed Truth, the Christian theologians have concocted any number of utterly bizarre interpretations of the Revelation of John; in the process making probably tens of millions of dollars (theft by deception) with the sale of books, magazine articles, video and audio tapes, classes, etc. etc. etc. What they do not understand is that the terms "dragon", "beast of the sea" and "beast of the earth" are to be understood as representing different aspects of the 'fallen' consciousness: the "dragon" symbolizing the 'movement' of self-reflection; the "beast of the sea" symbolizing the "self"; and the "beast of the earth" symbolizing the 'thinker'. In the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy5QeBRu3JI Agent Smith represents the 'movement' of self-reflection or the "dragon", whereas Neo represents the "observing consciousness" or "Michael" (see chapter 12 of the Revelation of John). The origin of the 3-dimensional 'curved' space within which the "self" exists occurs at time segment 5:29-5:33; after which "the Fall" is symbolized by time segment 5:45-6:08. Then, in the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GALu0...eature=related Agent Smith, as the “beast of the sea”/consciousness of the “self”, is graphically represented at time segment 2:15-2:23; whereas Agent Smith, as the “beast of the earth”/consciousness of the‘thinker’, emerges at time segment 3:01-3:05; references to the "beast of the sea" and the "beast of the earth" being found in Chapter 13 of the Revelation of John(The "beast of the earth" is also referred to in Sura 27:82 of the Koran.) And, were these Truths about the Revelation of John to be more widely publicized--rather than the bizarre interpretations of the Christian theologians--there would be more of a chance for Peace in the Middle East than there is at present. But the media is, of course, under the complete control of either the secularists or those whose economic survival depends upon the preservation of the bizarre doctrines of Christianity, Inc. Last edited by 4Q529; 02-26-2010 at 11:58 PM.

02-27-2010, 12:20 AM	#2
Frank Samuel Project Avalon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: i live in puerto rico Posts: 643	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John As a former theologian I can tell you that very few truly understand the scriptures, so I will give a doctor's degree to you because you understand a lot more than many of the theology professors that I had. I was so disenchanted that my path lead me into other roads to achieve the same destination. As we try to intellectualize religious books we tend to miss the whole point by using your internal essence your Heart you begin to understand these spiritual guides from a personal perspective. For example the end of the world is true for all of us, we die and we are reborn, the world is you.Fear manipulation has been an effective way to control religious people all over the world, is time to lift the veil. Universal truth is simple and very personal, the roads are many, the destination is the same.

02-27-2010, 05:25 AM	#4
Gnosis5 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,659	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John I am interested in reading the source works that form the basis of Christian Science. There is a reading room locally. I have been told that their healing technologies are about 90% truth, but on such a high level that most people are left standing on the other side of a raised drawbridge.

02-27-2010, 07:50 AM	#5
greybeard Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Inverness Scotland Posts: 924	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John First dont shoot the messenger. Dr David Hawkins is I believe a Mystic of our time and claims that there is a method of telling truth from false hood as in his Books "Power versus Force" and "Truth versus Falsehood" http://www.veritaspub.com When you go there please also go to the about section. Dr Hawkins can remember all past lives and is in the state of full Enlightenment, there are levels of enlightenment. He has developed a map of consciousness and way of calibrating all levels of consiousness. He claims that the Bible and various other Holy Books calibrate highly but that "Revelations" is of a very low calibration and was actually channeled from the lower astral and is not concordant with the teachings of Christ which are of course valid. The Old Testiment except for Genisis Proverbs and Psalms also calibrates low as it depicts an angry paranoid judgmental god which is far removed from the truth and teachings of Jesus. I realize these statements are controversial and will not debate them as I personally dont know. I can only point to the life work of Dr Hawkins who is in his 80s now and still dedicated to raising the consciousness of mankind. Chris

02-27-2010, 12:09 PM	#6
greybeard Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Inverness Scotland Posts: 924	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John Truth is eternal or it would not be true. How ever the perception of truth evolves. The Old Testament reflected the perception of god that was prevalent at that time. As is known historically the bible was radically altered by man at the council of Nancia (is that the spelling?) So much of the old testament was doctored that it is not safe to quote any of it. Jesus was crucified because he told the Truth as it is, eternal. The current perception of truth as pointed to by recent mystics in the last and this century has moved much closer to Truth. Perception is still not the same as subjective experience which is uniformly related to pointed to by curent enlightened sages. The moment words are used it is not subjective experience. Anything fear based is not of God. That is an easy rule of thumb to measure by. That is just my point of view not saying I am right. Chris

02-27-2010, 01:13 AM	#3
rosie Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern Ontario Posts: 94	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John 40529, loving your thoughts on this matter! This "well" is very deep, not too many people get the chance to see what's above, or below, the surface. They are too busy believing the lies. But, I have faith in "humanity", to grow where it needs to grow, which is towards love, not war. More and more people are speaking out, things are going mainstream, things that the "powers who wish they were" , do not want to get out. We are, by own natural destiny, love, and love will prevail, that I can 100% guarantee. love & light to everyone tonight!

02-27-2010, 12:59 PM	#7
K626 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 421	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John There are constantly changing views of 'truth' and versions of 'truth', it is alivea and moving as we are alive and moving. There is no one source which is dominant or central, we effect the source as the source changes us. Our very loose grip on reality often means a harder and more narrow search for some kind of truth. It's a waste of time.

02-27-2010, 08:33 PM	#16
Gnosis5 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,659	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John Hello Chris, Yes, part of my diagnostic readings is periodically getting a David Hawkins reading. Mine went up 90 points since I started my clearing work and got my first reading. The interesting thing that verified it for me is that at the time I hit my high mark I was intensely interested in the gospel of Thomas, and I found out later that its rating was exactly as mine. The points above me, which I was reaching for, were in the Buddhic range. There is a David Hawkins forum that has ratings for a long list of books, music, art: http://www.level-of-consciousness.org/. Although I don't see anymore postings on it, the books rating is very interesting. I would be interested to know how Christian Science healing technology rates. A fine distinction to keep in mind is that even though some books or music may have an overall low rating, there might be some jewels in there nonetheless, but would call for more sorting and discernment. I used to call it my "truth governor" :-)

02-28-2010, 01:42 AM	#20
Gnosis5 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,659	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John I believe the Rig Veda also rated very highly. There are a few practices and books I like and I would like someone to independently give them a Hawkins rating. As I said, when I had a yearning for the gospel of St. Thomas I found I rated the same as the gospel does, which was a 90 points gain in less than o ne year of some tenacious and dedicated clearing work, but I have a whole list that my psychic friend checks me for and that gives me more of a balanced look at overall changes. Say, Chris, maybe we should move this over to another thread I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone over the enlightenment level of Revelations. I am in the practice of changing futures so I would at best view it as an agent of change.

02-28-2010, 02:15 AM	#21
14 Chakras Avalon Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 832	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John From my perspective, Truth is spherical. Non-linear. As soon as we try and fit Truth in a linear understanding, it's a belief. Beliefs are our prisons. Truth that sets us Free is in Being, not believing. Mind over matter yes indeed, but not the believing mind or the thinking mind, rather the Being mind, the Christ mind that resides within us. I let the Father Mother within Be the doer and I and my Father Mother are One. Meaning: the thinker does not be, I do not do, I simply BE, Be ME ~ I will Be that I will Be. For me, there is no outer teaching that is perfect. Whatever helps us have an a-ha moment is perfect. As soon as we turn an outer teaching into a belief, I suggest that it causes more harm than good generally speaking. Truth is BE-yond belief. For me, revelations hides many Truths that will one day be much more exposed. But the bible is far from "God's Holy Word", rather it is the dead word. God's Holy Word is written in the Now in our Heart. It is the Living Word. Whereas words on paper can inspire if we let them take us higher and seek the inner Truth, but more often than not imprison us in ego illusions as we are often blind to the inner and esoteric Truth behind the outer exoteric words. And of course, the bible that is available today has very little outer value, but yes much inner for those willing to read between the lines, as I would suggest most of the more empowering elements were removed long ago. The elite of the days did not want the true message of Christ: That we are all Christ Beings when we choose to Be, and the death, suffering and victim consciousness are all illusions of our own making that we can transcend by connecting to God within us and awakening to our True identity: Suns and Daughters of God. Truth should be experienced. Truth is a River of Life, not a belief. Gnosis is the only Truth. However, when we do have the experience of Truth, we must be careful not to turn it into another linear belief. The reality is, that Truth is infinite, and there are infininte different Ways of interpreting an experience. Whatever we 'believe' will color our experience, and often we will mistakenly 'believe' if only everyone else believed what we believe we expirienced, then the world would be fixed. However, the reality is, that the experience of Truth, Gnosis with it, eternally Now, is the only thing that will bring enlightenment and Peace to Earth. Beliefs are dualistic by nature. Truth is Being. So let us surrender to Truth and have our own internal experiences that help raise us higher into the Truth that sets us free And it is great to share our experiences as well, as they help us all come up higher. Last edited by 14 Chakras; 02-28-2010 at 02:37 AM.

02-28-2010, 03:42 AM	#25
Gnosis5 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,659	Re: Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John Back in my primordial bible reading days, before I joined a group , when I did read the Bible I read it alone in the privacy of my home and respectfully and with a sense of connection. What I experienced is that whatever I needed to know for my own life at that time, well, the words would "light up" on the page and I would be "convicted". I wrote down those passages on a small card and carried it with me -- I meant business because I knew I needed higher guidance. I can still recall some of those verses, for example, "God is light and within him there is neither darkness nor shadow of turning...", and my lifetime mantra is "All things work together for good...". When Jesus said ye are my brothers and sisters, and you can do greater things... my heart soared. There are some Christian groups that would like to diminish that or even take that away from me !!???!!!